|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
Waxangel posted about this big news here, and asked someone else to do a write up. I don't know if I can add much more, but let me give it a shot.
The Players
KeSPA: (Korean e-sports pro-gaming association) Made up of representatives from the corporate sponsors of all of the pro-teams. So SKT has a rep, KTF has a rep, etc. KeSPA is made up of a board of directors (comprised by the reps from the various sponsor corporations), and a managerial staff, who run the day-to-day operations.
OGN and MBC: The two major game-specialist broadcast companies in Korea
IEG : A sports marketing and management company, who have been involved in sports marketing for various other Korean sports leagues, i.e. soccer and baseball. They are also the parent company of the progaming team eSTRO (formerly eNature, formerly AMD).
The Story:
1) KeSPA claims the broadcast rights to the Proleague.
2) KeSPA recently auctioned off the broadcast rights.
This is standard practice in other professional sports, i.e. baseball, basketball, football, etc. Normally, a broadcast company "buys" those rights-- for example, the NFL auctions off the broadcast rights to CBS or NBC or whatever.
3) IEG, the sole bidder for these rights, bought them from KeSPA.
The obvious issue here is that OGN and MBC refused to bid on the broadcast rights.
The Problem:
The Proleague is managed almost entirely by the broadcast companies, OGN and MBC. They provide the stadiums, the maps, the schedule, advertising, promotion, etc. Their stance is that it is ridiculous that they have to pay for broadcast rights when it is essentially their league, that they built up from scratch (back in the day there used to be two separate leagues, one for each station, but they joined the two into the current Proleague under the auspices of KeSPA). OGN and MBC thus refused to bid on the rights, and they are also refusing to buy the rights from IEG as well.
The Future?
Everything is up in the air at this point. Here are some possible scenarios:
1) The Proleague is cancelled. If OGN and MBC stick to their guns, no one would be there to manage the league, provide the maps, etc. It could mean the end of the Proleague, period.
2) The Proleague continues, but not on OGN/MBC. IEG sells the broadcast rights to some channel out there that buys these rights (or pay a broadcast fee) and broadcasts the league (CJ, which is planning to launch a game channel soon, would be a possible buyer). This is highly unlikely, however, since no other entity has the experience and infrastructure in place to manage the Proleague.
3) OGN/MBC buys the broadcast rights and continue as in the past. The only difference from the past is that they would be paying a broadcast fee to IEG, or having to buy the broadcast rights outright. They are both adamantly refusing to do so, out of principle as well as profit logic (they claim that paying a broadcast fee/buying the rights will make the Proleague non-profitable)
3) The Proleague, as we know it, ends, and OGN and MBC set up their own team leagues, as in the past. This, too, is unlikely: one of the reasons they joined to make this one Proleague is that running individual leagues was not very profitable.
4) IEG, KeSPA, and OGN/MBC come to some agreeable arrangement and the Proleague continues unabated. This would require alot of deal making and compromise.
At any length, this issue has huge ramifications for e-sports. The worst case scenario is that the Proleague is disbanded, which would have huge reverberating effects on starcraft progaming. For example, sponsors for the Proleague, as well as the companies sponsoring proteams would be scared off and would cut back (and perhaps not renew their investment). End of SC progaming.
Many observers in Korea generally seem to side with the broadcast companies, saying that e-sports is not like other sports, since the broadcast companies actually manage, organize, and run the leagues, unlike in, say, American football, where the NFL does that and the channels can just focus on broadcasting. Thus, KeSPA auctioning off broadcast rights is just stupid.
KeSPA, for their part, are defending their actions by saying they are laying the groundwork for even more professionalization of e-Sports.
That's the long and short of it. Slightly confusing? Sorry. But a one-sentence summary is basically that KeSPA and the broadcast companies are warring over broadcast rights, and potentially this could mean the end of SC progaming. It's big news.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
SHIT..... wtf man that's insane news >_< wtf does kespa want to do with that. just leave the stuff to ogn and mbc they were doing perfectly fine =. =
my guess is that those bastard 'director' representatives from each company in kespa just want to make some money and dont care about the scene at all
AJSDFKSDJSFKSJDGKLASJGD
how did kespa 'claim' the broadcasting rights in the first place anyway?
|
Canada9720 Posts
On what basis does the KeSPA claim that they're expanding the professionalization of e-Sports? It sounds more like they're just doing what's profitable (not laying blame here, this is the same reason why OGN and MBC refuse to settle the issue by purchasing broadcast rights).
Anyway, bum deal. I hope that they work it out, I always enjoyed the proleague and it's format.
|
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
My personal opinion, of course, is that KeSPA is fucking retarded.
A good analogy about this situation is sort of like this:
Two guys, OGN and MBC, start separate lemonade stands. In the beginning, the lemonade is really unusual so no one buys, but as time goes on it catches fire. So then they decide to invite a third guy, KeSPA, to help them coordinate one big profitable lemonade stand. When this stand starts getting really big, KeSPA says, hey, if you want to keep selling lemonade, you have to pay me. OGN and MBC say who the fuck are you, eat me, we made this lemonade stand happen, you hardly did anything. KeSPA then says I'm going to let a third guy, IEG, sell the lemonade from now on, because he paid me.
Something like this.
|
What does kespa plan on doing with the money?
|
thx for the news! ty man!
|
This is pretty ridiculous >.<;: ... However i doubt that E-sports will just implode... there will be some sort of solution if this happens however it is of course a huge set back :x.
|
i'm with the channels on this one
|
What does KeSPA do that is actually useful? Why would starting something independent of them be such a problem?
|
wtf...who the fuck are they to claim the right to ruin Proleague?
OGN and MBC should *really* make their own league to finally settle this problem.
|
|
If progaming disappears (highly unlikely IMO) that would cause many people to lose their job. And that would be a lot of blood on kespa hands.
I think they will reach some kind of agreement because progaming is so big in Korea. Kespa is so wrong on this one
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On February 21 2007 08:02 rrenaud wrote: What does KeSPA do that is actually useful? Why would starting something independent of them be such a problem?
Well, KeSPA in theory does do a few things:
1) since they are an association of a bunch of big businesses, you're talking about a pretty big network (theoretically) to support the growth of pro-gaming. OGN and MBC, in the big scheme, are two small cable channels with only a limited amount of funds.
2) there does need to be a central organizing body, for example, setting rules, regulations, and standards for progaming, making sure unethical practices aren't taking place, etc.
3) KeSPA has been in charge of getting the sponsors for the individual Proleagues.
It is a distinct possibility that OGN and MBC return back to setting up their own leagues. There are a number of wrinkles: 1) the cost and effort-- would it be worth it? Or would it be simply more profitable for them to tank the whole dirty issue and invest their time and money elsewhere? 2) Would all the proteams actually participate in these leagues? You might imagine the front offices of certain teams (i.e. IEG) refusing to let their teams play. You might have MBC Hero not playing in the OGN league, or some other ridiculous circumstance. It just makes things alot messier. 3) Can teams really play in two separate team leagues? The coordination would be hellish. 4) The prestige of the leagues would be smaller, the scale as a whole would be smaller. You'd have probably smaller scale attendance, less prestige and prize for victory, smaller scale everything (like imagine the finals taking in a tiny theater instead of outdoors in front of a huge crowd) 5) will OGN and MBC really be able to find their own sponsors? Sponsors likely will be scared off to see how unstable the Proleague is-- large investments are made with long-term benefits in mind. You don't make high risk investments without an equally high potential for payoff. So in the end it raises the "price" of putting on a Proleague.
|
This is pretty big news. We just all better hope for future num 4) where they just settle it all and it goes back to normal. But what would be wrong with ogn/mbc taking care of managing the league and they just play it on another channel(besides principle)
|
Cant they just pick a new name like GosuLeague and run that instead with the same rules etc? I mean instead of creating a new league each why not create a new one working togather?
|
So what about the OSL Finals? Will they be able to broadcast that in 2 days?? When does the boradcasting stop if no deal is made?
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
The Starleagues do not involve KeSPA, only the Proleague
Thus, OSL = OGN starleague, MSL = MBC starleague
|
On February 21 2007 08:24 DrainX wrote: Cant they just pick a new name like GosuLeague and run that instead with the same rules etc? I mean instead of creating a new league each why not create a new one working togather?
They won't have the sponsors.
|
On February 21 2007 08:28 bustaBust wrote: So what about the OSL Finals? Will they be able to broadcast that in 2 days?? When does the boradcasting stop if no deal is made?
I think only proleague is affected with this problem. OSL/MSL starleagues are not in "danger" as I understood.
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On February 21 2007 08:24 DrainX wrote: Cant they just pick a new name like GosuLeague and run that instead with the same rules etc? I mean instead of creating a new league each why not create a new one working togather?
There is the sponsor issue as mentioned above, but also if OGN and MBC really do make a clean break, that just makes the entire situation look really bad
Also, OGN and MBC, if you recall, are direct competitors. They would be strange bedfellows indeed.
|
isn't it possible that MBC and OGN just set up another Kespa-like organisation (that they control of course) and there's a split like in boxing where you have a bunch of world champions?
why can't they just dump Kespa and go on?
|
This news is obviously more dramatic for the lives of progamers and those who are involved in eSports business. I doubt that the owning rights in itself will erase the pro gaming scene so easily. The fact is that there are people who follow progaming like a real spectator sport and there are people's lives involved because of progaming. All in all, they'll find a solution - we won't lose progaming. In my opinion, in the worst case scenario, progaming will be damaged but not altogether lost.
I mean come on! We can't let progaming die with Savior still #1~ At least not until Garimto shows his godlike protoss vs zerg and reverse the imba T_T
|
Taiche
France1963 Posts
Chill out, progaming in Korea won\'t die, there is too much at stake for all these organizations/corporations. Now we have to pray so that they don\'t come up with a shitty compromise...
|
There are magazines, sites upon sites, and even newspaper articles and celebrity lives at stake. SC won't go away, Uhjoo, goodsir, is being dramatic with that comment.
However, this is a big moment in E-Sports and KeSpa is just being gay.
|
is awesome32244 Posts
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
by no means am i saying SC progaming will end, but imo it can't afford to take hits like this.
and yes, there is a doomsday scenario when everything will have to start over from basically scratch, but i do admit it is highly unlikely. one thing working in the fans' favor is that the proleague is SUCH a big part of both OGN and MSL (consisting of almost 50% of prime-time content on those channels) that they really can't afford to ditch it. KeSPA of course can't afford to ditch the Proleague either since it is essentially the reason why it exists. And IEG, they're making a sizable investment and having the Proleague go to nothing means that they wasted their money to buy rights to a league that doesn't exist.
if i were to play nostradamus, i think a last minute solution will be stitched together-- one possible scenario i see is that the "broadcast fees" will be lowered to a negligible sum and OGN and MBC will pay up, so keeping the current conditions, but under a different framework.
|
Please don't flame me...
+ Show Spoiler + But in all honesty, as much as I love liquibet, I could survive without the Proleague. Certainly, I love it with all of my heart and think that if it were to be abolished I'd probably cry for a day or two, but life would go on. I'd still be able to play competitive Starcraft, I'd just have to rely on tl.net for news on the development of the community.
Having that said, I love progaming and I'd be ever-so-sad to see it go away. And what about Tasteless...!?
|
United States5262 Posts
|
Kespa is evil corporatism at it's finest.
What more can I say except OSL and MSL hwaiting -_-;;
|
|
oh my gosh, somebody call jerry springer...
anyways, I kinda wonder if kespa saw this coming when they signed away the rights in the first place. hopefully someone will come up with a witty deal (not likely... but still somewhat possible) cause right now everyone seems to be losing.
|
|
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
What a ridiculous decision by the KeSPA. Why should OGN and MBC have to pay them (or anyone else) a fee to broadcast something that they are almost entirely responsible for producing in the first place?
Seems like KeSPA is doing things The American Way and putting their own profit ahead of everything else -_-.
|
Uhjoo the lemonstand was a good analogy in simplifying the matter, but it doesn't portray the whole picture. I'd put the situation in a more simple form because I'm sure most people could understand this. MBC and OGN sets up a tournament with prizes. Players participated. Players acquired sponsorships. Sponsor companies set up a joint board to direct and manage operations (KESPA). KESPA believe they own the rights to the games being played by their players (another point surfaces here, what about the games of a player who is not sponsored vs a sponsored one?) But the prizes and venues & all the efforts put into the tournaments are single-handedly taken on by MBC & OGN. So why should Kespa have any say in this?
.. I'd look into the contract that players sign with their sponsors if I were MBC or OGN to search for explicit statements regarding the rights to the games they play.
why can't they just dump Kespa and go on? You should re-read the original post. KESPA = the sponsors of progamers, without sponsors, players would only play for tournament money, while paying out of their pocket for all the preparation & living expenses.
Seems like KeSPA is doing things The American Way and putting their own profit ahead of everything else -_-.
It is a business decision that I can understand, not necessarily for. They are paying alot of money to these players, and so far their investments have garnered minimal returns. While esport is huge in Korea, marketing within this... market... is still in its infancy. Wearing the uniforms with the sponsor logo on it in front of the TV with potential million viewers may seem attractive at first, but my guess is they figured out it's not netting them the return they expected. My take: lower the broadcast rights like one of the options uhjoo suggested. Makes the most sense and minimal damage if any to MBC/OGN.
|
United States20661 Posts
OGN and MBC fighting~!
this is ridiculous. Proleague is only place I can see Reach/YellOw play nowadays T-T
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
i should say up front that at the moment i am horribly biased, it may have shown up in my writing
afaik KeSPA was formed with good intentions, and OGN (and MBC, in a sense) did "give" the Proleague to KeSPA, so legally speaking, I think there's not much to challenge (although I could be wrong).
and the idea to "professionalize" e-sports to be like other national sports is future-looking as well. auctioning off broadcast rights to third parties/channels opens the door for providing other types of e-sports content through other types of media and does spread the profits of e-sports beyond OGN/MBC.
the move to auctioning broadcast rights would be, in an ideal world, great, because it would suggest that e-sports had matured. the problem, obviously, is that e-sports just isn't as developed as real sports industry, and the broadcast channels play a much greater role, so imo a move like this is not only premature, but potentially destructive.
i'm sure that OGN/MBC people are not without fault-- perhaps they just don't know how to put things in a diplomatic way to work out a constructive solution. and they are seemingly being very stubborn and confrontational.
the more i learn about this issue, the more i will post.
|
i'm sure that OGN/MBC people are not without fault-- perhaps they just don't know how to put things in a diplomatic way to work out a constructive solution. and they are seemingly being very stubborn and confrontational. It's like telepathy, I'm thinking the same thing
the more i learn about this issue, the more i will post.
Agreed, I think I'm also making ill-informed posts here.
and OGN (and MBC, in a sense) did "give" the Proleague to KeSPA Can you elaborate on this detail?
|
if bw progaming stopped, I would have to kill myself. I've loved this game ever since it came out in 1998. And it's so entertaining to watch, and see how it evolve.
I really hope they come to some kinda agreement.
And a very nice writeup, this is.
|
If KeSPA wants to professionalize progaming more and make it more like professional sports, why don't they go find the stadiums and the maps and all the things MBC and OGN were responsible for in the past?
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
yikes
|
On February:35 yubee wrote: kespa is fucking retarded - uhjoo
|
Very well written and well formulated news post. Thanks for the information!
|
thanks for the info guys... this is big news indeed... =(
|
On February 21 2007 07:38 uhjoo wrote: My personal opinion, of course, is that KeSPA is fucking retarded.
A good analogy about this situation is sort of like this:
Two guys, OGN and MBC, start separate lemonade stands. In the beginning, the lemonade is really unusual so no one buys, but as time goes on it catches fire. So then they decide to invite a third guy, KeSPA, to help them coordinate one big profitable lemonade stand. When this stand starts getting really big, KeSPA says, hey, if you want to keep selling lemonade, you have to pay me. OGN and MBC say who the fuck are you, eat me, we made this lemonade stand happen, you hardly did anything. KeSPA then says I'm going to let a third guy, IEG, sell the lemonade from now on, because he paid me.
Something like this.
well, where theres money... greed is soon to follow.
|
If this fell through, there would be Europe's chance to start esports anew.
|
Hmm that's a pretty terrible news -_-, hope things will go in a positive way tho.
|
|
Sounds like a real bitch move by KeSPA. So, KeSPA basically owns the name ProLeague, but it's the networks who do all the work. And now they're trying to leverage that fact to make some money?
Would it be possible, if some sort of compromise is not made, for OGN and MBC to tell KeSPA to fuck off and continue running the league under a different name? They have a pretty strong position to begin with considering they have all the experience and MBC happens to own the ProLeague champions.
The only way that KeSPA could possibly be in the right here, with regards to auctioning off the broadcast rights, would be if they reimbursed OGN and MBC for all the money the networks spent on building the infrastructure.
|
To all who have posted in this thread:
I am the International Business Manager for IEG. I'm also an American working here in Korea. I think you guys are overreacting completely about this situation. You all have to understand that KeSPA is the governing body of e-Sports in Korea. They have every right to 'professionalize' e-Sports by making it more competitive or in this case, selling content rights. I don't know about you guys, but a media organization whether its online, print or TV, should never hold power over a league. It creates too many problems. Yes, both OGN and MBCGame can be attributed with the explosion of professional gaming and really gave competitive StarCraft the boost it needed by putting it on TV.
KeSPA was created to govern e-Sports with support from KGDI (Korea Game Development Institute, which is a branch of the Korean Government). These companies gave KeSPA the power to do this sort of thing..competition is a very healthy thing in any sport. Every company involved in KeSPA and e-Sports understands that in order for e-Sports to be professional, it has to be a standalone governing body that has no other motives besides making e-Sports better here in Korea. MBCGame and OGN could have bid on the rights if they wanted to. We even had a second bidding because the first one OGN and MBC declined to bid. Everything done so far has been done to create a more competitive atmosphere. We aren't just trying to muscle out OGN and MBC. There is a bidding process for each game since there is now enough games a week to make it similar to baseball where different TV stations bid for the games they want. I can't stress enough how wrong you guys are about Proleague dying. We are trying to reinvigorate the StarCraft community by spreading the Proleague contents to the US and Europe, whether its online or TV. We are working on getting StarCraft hosted at other major events (besides just WCG) as well as creating a new StarCraft league that players in North America, South America, Asia and Europe can all participate in.
We care about expanding e-Sports globally and this is only the first step. I hope you guys change your mind about this whole situation being so grave for Proleague. It will carry on as it has and continue to get better.
If any of you here would like some answers and are willing to have an intelligent discussion about this, feel free to email me at stuart@iegroup.co.kr.
No flaming please. Only intelligent responses.
Stuart Brooks | International Business Manager International E-Sports Group Inc
|
If KeSPA is an extension of the corporate sponsors of the pro teams, I'm sure they--the sponsors--all still want their salaried employees (the progamers) to be seen on TV, or else it'd be a waste of money. I'm sure that when the dust settles, we'll still have Proleague games to watch.
I just hope there's no standoff or reduction in quality.
|
On February 21 2007 17:32 IEGbrooks wrote: We are trying to reinvigorate the StarCraft community by spreading the Proleague contents to the US and Europe, whether its online or TV. We are working on getting StarCraft hosted at other major events (besides just WCG) as well as creating a new StarCraft league that players in North America, South America, Asia and Europe can all participate in.
We care about expanding e-Sports globally and this is only the first step. I hope you guys change your mind about this whole situation being so grave for Proleague. It will carry on as it has and continue to get better.
If not even Korean TV stations are willing to pay for the rights to Proleague, you're going to have zero chance of other media outlets in other countries willing to pay for Proleague or any other kind of starcraft league.
|
Thanks for providing more information Stuart. We generally get all our information here second hand, because of the language barrier, and this is a fairly confusing situation to begin with. It's only natural that we get scared/paranoid when we think we may be losing our ProLeague.
As I see things now, it still seems like OGN and MBC are getting the short end of the stick. Their investment in pro gaming thus far has been larger than the rest of the sponsors put together (except for maybe KTF and CJ) and now they're losing the broadcasting rights to the event they created. Doesn't seem fair.
|
The negotiation with MBC and OGN has been going on for weeks now. This is business and Proleague has consistently been the most watched and most followed league in Korea. We are not trying to screw OGN or MBC into paying an obscene amount of money. This new arrangement is how it should have been since the beginning of professional StarCraft.
Also to whomever said OGN and MBC run the league..they have not done so in a few years. KeSPA referees all of the matches, provides the controller of spectator mode and actually allowed Ongamenet to use the IPARK Stadium.
Whether you guys think its wrong that MBC and OGN no longer have control, it's how it should be and is the only way to further expand e-Sports.
|
United States32499 Posts
That would make sense if it was actually KeSPA that was planning, producing, and funding the entire Pro League (it's not).
OGN managed to get big Proleague sponsors in the past when it was running it alone, remember SKY ?
|
Waxangel -
KeSPA plans the league and each team in KeSPA funds all of the operational costs as well as the government of Korea giving financial support. KeSPA handles all sponsorships of Proleague.
|
I'm not very business-minded, so excuse me if this is quite naive. Is IEG basically just a middle man between KeSPA and the media (in this case, television)? What role does IEG play exactly? How does IEG stand to profit from buying the rights and reselling them? If MBC and OGN actually bid, and IEG ended up winning anyway, IEG couldn't expect to sell the rights to MBC/OGN for more than the bid. I'm guessing IEG pays more for the rights, then sells them cheaper but involves other burdens on the media organization, that in the end make it worth it for IEG. But I really have no idea, or what those other burdens would be exactly anyway.
Also, IEGbrooks, if you could say anything more about any plans to bring StarCraft outside of Korea, this forum would be very very grateful. However if you can't get into specifics, we'll live.
Thanks
|
On February 21 2007 17:32 IEGbrooks wrote: To all who have posted in this thread:
I am the International Business Manager for IEG. I'm also an American working here in Korea. I think you guys are overreacting completely about this situation. You all have to understand that KeSPA is the governing body of e-Sports in Korea. They have every right to 'professionalize' e-Sports by making it more competitive or in this case, selling content rights. I don't know about you guys, but a media organization whether its online, print or TV, should never hold power over a league. It creates too many problems. Yes, both OGN and MBCGame can be attributed with the explosion of professional gaming and really gave competitive StarCraft the boost it needed by putting it on TV.
KeSPA was created to govern e-Sports with support from KGDI (Korea Game Development Institute, which is a branch of the Korean Government). These companies gave KeSPA the power to do this sort of thing..competition is a very healthy thing in any sport. Every company involved in KeSPA and e-Sports understands that in order for e-Sports to be professional, it has to be a standalone governing body that has no other motives besides making e-Sports better here in Korea. MBCGame and OGN could have bid on the rights if they wanted to. We even had a second bidding because the first one OGN and MBC declined to bid. Everything done so far has been done to create a more competitive atmosphere. We aren't just trying to muscle out OGN and MBC. There is a bidding process for each game since there is now enough games a week to make it similar to baseball where different TV stations bid for the games they want. I can't stress enough how wrong you guys are about Proleague dying. We are trying to reinvigorate the StarCraft community by spreading the Proleague contents to the US and Europe, whether its online or TV. We are working on getting StarCraft hosted at other major events (besides just WCG) as well as creating a new StarCraft league that players in North America, South America, Asia and Europe can all participate in.
We care about expanding e-Sports globally and this is only the first step. I hope you guys change your mind about this whole situation being so grave for Proleague. It will carry on as it has and continue to get better.
If any of you here would like some answers and are willing to have an intelligent discussion about this, feel free to email me at stuart@iegroup.co.kr.
No flaming please. Only intelligent responses.
Stuart Brooks | International Business Manager International E-Sports Group Inc
Just wow...
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
Stuart,
Thanks for bringing your input here and clearing up any misconceptions.
If you could answer a few questions:
1) Do you believe the Proleague is ready for competitive bidding for broadcast rights? People go to OGN or MBC to watch Proleague games. Will we have to search around, skipping from channel to channel to watch Proleague games?
2) Although only the Proleague is subject to this issue currently, is IEG or KeSPA or anyone else (even KGDI) planning to try to open up broadcast right bidding for the Starleagues?
3) Is there any potential at all for a halting or suspension of the Proleague?
4) You seem to be saying that KeSPA is already in charge, more or less, of the Proleague. Public opinion believes that OGN/MBC do the lion's share of the day to day work. How ready, really, is KeSPA to take over the planning and running of the Proleagues? Can OGN/MBC really just sit back, provide nothing but a film crew and commentators, and broadcast content?
5) Please clarify what exactly IEG's role is/will be. It's quite confusing.
5) How transparent can you be (i.e. how much information can you disclose) about the negotiation process with OGN/MBC? Since you would ostensibly have a seat at the table, can you or anyone inform us what exactly is going on, and what the key issues are, what the possible solutions are?
Our most obvious concern, as fans, is that the Proleague content doesn't die, and that it doesn't get diminished in scope or in scale.
|
Korea (South)11558 Posts
On February 21 2007 17:32 IEGbrooks wrote: To all who have posted in this thread:
I am the International Business Manager for IEG. I'm also an American working here in Korea. I think you guys are overreacting completely about this situation. You all have to understand that KeSPA is the governing body of e-Sports in Korea. They have every right to 'professionalize' e-Sports by making it more competitive or in this case, selling content rights. I don't know about you guys, but a media organization whether its online, print or TV, should never hold power over a league. It creates too many problems. Yes, both OGN and MBCGame can be attributed with the explosion of professional gaming and really gave competitive StarCraft the boost it needed by putting it on TV.
KeSPA was created to govern e-Sports with support from KGDI (Korea Game Development Institute, which is a branch of the Korean Government). These companies gave KeSPA the power to do this sort of thing..competition is a very healthy thing in any sport. Every company involved in KeSPA and e-Sports understands that in order for e-Sports to be professional, it has to be a standalone governing body that has no other motives besides making e-Sports better here in Korea. MBCGame and OGN could have bid on the rights if they wanted to. We even had a second bidding because the first one OGN and MBC declined to bid. Everything done so far has been done to create a more competitive atmosphere. We aren't just trying to muscle out OGN and MBC. There is a bidding process for each game since there is now enough games a week to make it similar to baseball where different TV stations bid for the games they want. I can't stress enough how wrong you guys are about Proleague dying. We are trying to reinvigorate the StarCraft community by spreading the Proleague contents to the US and Europe, whether its online or TV. We are working on getting StarCraft hosted at other major events (besides just WCG) as well as creating a new StarCraft league that players in North America, South America, Asia and Europe can all participate in.
We care about expanding e-Sports globally and this is only the first step. I hope you guys change your mind about this whole situation being so grave for Proleague. It will carry on as it has and continue to get better.
If any of you here would like some answers and are willing to have an intelligent discussion about this, feel free to email me at stuart@iegroup.co.kr.
No flaming please. Only intelligent responses.
Stuart Brooks | International Business Manager International E-Sports Group Inc
I will definetly participate. thanks for asking
|
uhjoo - very good and thoughtful questions and I will do my best to answer them all to the best of my ability without stepping on anyone's toes.
1 - If I didn't think it was ready to have bidding on proleague matches, IEG would not have bid for these rights. To my knowledge, the schedule will be sorted out with exactly which dates and times for each station, so I do not think any of you will need to go channel surfing to find your favorite Proleague matchup. Obviously without you fans, there would be none of this so we are trying to make it as easy as possible to tune in. Expect more online coverage of StarCraft, especially in the States. No more youtube VOD's .
2 - I am not aware of anyone trying to bid for OSL or MSL. I think that would be plain wrong to do so due to both of those leagues having the namesake of their broadcast organization. To my knowledge the content for OSL and MSL are owned by each respective company so I don't think rights bidding would happen anywhere in the near future if it even happens.
3 - Proleague will go on as it has over the years. Solutions will be found in even the most dire situations and trust me when I say we want Proleague to be a resounding success just like the rest of you fans.
4 - KeSPA is and has been in charge of Proleague for awhile. I do not understand why so many people think OGN/MBC do the majority of the work. It is inherently the job and purpose of the broadcast organization to provide all of those things you mentioned. OGN/MBC should only be a broadcast organization and should not have any say in how the league is run except for which angle to get the best shot from. Excuse me for being blunt but problems only arise when media has a stake in the day to day operations of a league.
5 - I guess you could say that IEG will be a broker in this situation. We bought the rights so we can expand the reach and scope of Proleague and professional StarCraft to other regions who have interest in this sort of content. We will not become a broadcast station. I hope that explains enough for you to understand. We will in no way, shape or form change how Proleague is broadcasted or the format of the league. We only want to enter these contents into new markets whether its online, TV or new media (think cellphones). We think this is a great step but has gotten a lot of bad press because people do not understand the situation and how business in real sports work.
6 - I am sorry I cannot really discuss any of those details except for discussions are going on between KeSPA, IEG and the broadcast organizations.
On a side note, I will try to release a press release about some of the upcoming StarCraft events that are currently planned in the near future. Things are in motion that will reinvigorate the worldwide StarCraft community so there should be more opportunities to play in competitive leagues as well as more events to watch. That is all I can say currently.
I'd like to thank the TL community for being considerate and not rushing to judgement of me or my company. I keep track of community sites like TL and GG and I truly appreciate the maturity most of the members of the SC community have shown so far.
|
On February 21 2007 19:59 IEGbrooks wrote:
OGN/MBC should only be a broadcast organization and should not have any say in how the league is run except for which angle to get the best shot from.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't OGN and MBC have complete control over how their respective leagues are run? I understand how this arrangement might not be in the best interest of the sport over the long run, but it has certainly worked out all right so far. If this arrangement has worked for the OGN Starleague, why wouldn't it work for the Proleague?
Can you elaborate on specific conflict of interests that may arise from a broadcast company that controls and runs a league as well as airing the programming as well? What are the benefits to seperating the broadcasting and control of the league?
Let me also add that I applaud IEG's efforts at increasing the scope of e-sports beyond Korea and into new markets. I remember several years ago I think back in 2002 or 2003, paying my Korean roommate money so that he could have his cousin in Korea establish a paid OGN account for me so that I can watch live OGN matches. I also had him translate the commentary and I was thinking how great it would be to have an english broadcaster with the insight of announcer Um. I longed for the day that this sport would accessible to people outside of Korea and I'm very excited to hear that it may be coming in the near future.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
IEGbrooks. You sir, are a saint. I dont care if you change proleague into a documentary about power puff girl cosplayers, this is seriously some of the best news ive heard for the community in many months.
Also on a side note, because im such a fan boy, his name is Nick "Tasteless" Plott and he is the revolution of western starcraft commentary.
|
I guess this could be really good in the future if some of these plans pan out. Imagine being able to watch starcraft on cable tv in other countries and all the new fans it would create. I think western countries are just about ready for this. If it doesn't, well, we'll still have the MSL and the OSL, this would not effect them. Its funny just last night as I was trying to sleep I was thinking about how if I had lots of money I'd try to get progaming broadcast in other countries and then today I read this. I must be a psychic, bro .
|
Thanks IEGbrooks, we all appreciate your answers and the attention as we are usually used to being left out of the Korean SC scene. It's nice to know that IEG is looking at the International market seriously. It's obvious that marketing the amazing product you have to the world is the right way to go.
That being said Mr. Brooks is making PR for his company. It is obvious to me that there is more than one way to show this story and getting the stations oppinion about this will help us understand this subject better.
|
Locke -
You could call my posts PR for my company I guess. I had to let the TL community know about our intentions as the first few posts were making us look evil and greedy. I doubt many of you knew who our company was or what we do on a daily basis. Obviously what we think and say would be completely different than what OGN or MBC would say. They are upset and rightfully so but this is how sports evolve and this sort of thing needs to happen in order to make e-sports grow. I deeply respect what OGN and MBC has done in the e-sports industry and I continue to respect what they do today.
Why do you think my posts is a type of PR for IEG? I feel I'm just answering the questions that were asked to be answered and gave you guys tidbits of some of the things we are planning to do for the StarCraft community.
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
I for one appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions, although you will always have to fight the perception, whether true or false, that you are conducting PR for your company. But it's definitely good to have your voice here.
I should also say that since I started this thread, and although I definitely had a strong negative bias in the beginning, I can now better appreciate what IEG's stated purpose is. It seems that in the long run there's a real convergence of interest. The members of TLnet would of course invite more open access to the SC scene and the international expansion of the e-Sport. Everything you are promising about more events is obviously music to our ears, as TLnet (and GG, I imagine) have always felt like we were the last bastion of SC in the western world.
The concern is of course the timing. It's hard to sit back without knowing more details whether this move is a more or less unilateral power play (as it seems) that would alienate the two entities, OGN and MBC, that have more or less single-handedly made the SC progaming scene what it is today, far before KeSPA and IEG or anyone else existed and/or cared. It seems like all the work they've done and everything they've built up is on very thin ice with these new developments. That is the scariest thing from my perspective. In short, is it an evolution or a forced recreation? That to me is the crux of the matter, because in my view things don't always happen very neatly like Darwin predicted when it comes to corporate restructuring and strategy, and profit motive often gets the better of good intentions.
I would also love to get the OGN/MBC side of the story. I'll work on getting it.
|
I think it is evolution. All of you have to understand that before any bidding even took place the KeSPA board (owners from each team) discussed selling the content rights and voted on it. This discussion included MBCGame and OGN and they gave the OK. Both of them said nothing until after the bidding was over.
I understand you guys think that it was forcefully taken from the broadcasters but as I have mentioned before, this is a much needed evolution for the sport. Hopefully all of this will be announced soon so you TL readers can prepare for the upcoming Proleague season.
More information on the upcoming StarCraft projects will be announced in the near future right here on TL
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
I'm glad i reserved judgment until i heard both sides. Im going to have to side with IEG on this one, and can only hope for a speedy resolution.
GL
|
IEGbrooks you didn't answer the question why OSL(and also MSL) can be such a success with only the broadcast entity involved in its operation. It's against your theory about sport business running style ,right?
I am not depreciating KeSPA as a neutral organization supporting the progaming scene. Actually I agree with you that these bidding things need to be there to make eSport more professional and competitive IN THE FUTURE. You can't use this argument backing your auction movement AT THE MOMENT. Because, as bw players ourselves, we all know the importance of TIMING.
KeSPA ARE 4-POOLING OGN/MBC. I am not saying it's undoable, but you are taking too much risk
|
|
i just read the thread
i wrote this before i read: + Show Spoiler + dunno if anyone said this so far, so i'll just say what i got.
Everyone here complains if the dump Kespa they wont have the sponsors. fuck that. u do know how sponsor system works? If OGN and MBC form an entirely new thing, and start broadcasting, u think there wont be companies willing to advertise?! Big companies need marketing, and sponsoring Proleague is not "OMG KESPA; WE'LL LOSE SPONSORS" its a normal event, watched by many many people and its perfectly natural to expect many offers to advertise within those events.
|
Kespa just go pay OGN/MBC a hefty sum to settle it.
|
On February 21 2007 17:55 IEGbrooks wrote: Also to whomever said OGN and MBC run the league..they have not done so in a few years. KeSPA referees all of the matches, provides the controller of spectator mode and actually allowed Ongamenet to use the IPARK Stadium.
Thats disingenous. The entire culture of progaming, the mapmaking, the technical know-how were all built up by OGN and MBC. Its not just about rights or writing a few checks, the whole groundwork upon which proleague rests is done by those two broadcasting stations.
|
On February 21 2007 23:29 IEGbrooks wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Locke -
You could call my posts PR for my company I guess. I had to let the TL community know about our intentions as the first few posts were making us look evil and greedy. I doubt many of you knew who our company was or what we do on a daily basis. Obviously what we think and say would be completely different than what OGN or MBC would say. They are upset and rightfully so but this is how sports evolve and this sort of thing needs to happen in order to make e-sports grow. I deeply respect what OGN and MBC has done in the e-sports industry and I continue to respect what they do today.
Why do you think my posts is a type of PR for IEG? I feel I'm just answering the questions that were asked to be answered and gave you guys tidbits of some of the things we are planning to do for the StarCraft community.
I think it is great that you decided to answer our questions and tell us how this matter evolves. I just pointed out that because you work for IEG your view of the subject and the way you present it is bound to be from IEG's point of view. I am in no way saying that it is 'wrong' to do that I just said this kind of situations usually have more than one right way of looking at them.
Also when I mentioned you were doing PR I meant you were here to create a better image for your company in front of the foreign SC community. If you didn't do it with that intent it still created the same effect.
Professional SC is totally connected to 'OGN' and 'MBC', in our minds it is them who made it happen. Kespa to the average SC fan here is just the quite odd ranking system and the people who come over when a gamer pause the game. Therefore you can understand that hearing about Kespa selling rights of Proleague to IEG and forcing OGN and MBC to pay sounded shocking to us.
That being said I don't even like ProLeague SC is an individualistic sport and I don't really care which corporation gets the prize money in the end.. But I do understand the importance of the teams and I do hope that after all this is over they will still want to put the money into training and paying professional SC players.
|
hmm, so is it true that KeSPA pays for and organizes ALL the proleague matches? (every aspect of them as well, besides the actualy 'broadcasting' of course;o)
If so, then I would have to side with IEG/KeSPA.
If not, then I think that KeSPA need to take responsibility and start doing so, THEN it can sell its rights.
Thanks for giving us more info on the subject Stuart^^
|
United States32499 Posts
deferring judgment until I have information from more than one side
it's general consensus that OGN/MBC do most of the work in Korea for a reason
|
not a big deal
just drop proleague
and make a whole new league and name it something else..
if their the ones who make everything, then it's pretty simple..
|
MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On February 21 2007 17:32 IEGbrooks wrote: To all who have posted in this thread:
I am the International Business Manager for IEG. I'm also an American working here in Korea. I think you guys are overreacting completely about this situation. You all have to understand that KeSPA is the governing body of e-Sports in Korea. They have every right to 'professionalize' e-Sports by making it more competitive or in this case, selling content rights. I don't know about you guys, but a media organization whether its online, print or TV, should never hold power over a league. It creates too many problems. Yes, both OGN and MBCGame can be attributed with the explosion of professional gaming and really gave competitive StarCraft the boost it needed by putting it on TV.
KeSPA was created to govern e-Sports with support from KGDI (Korea Game Development Institute, which is a branch of the Korean Government). These companies gave KeSPA the power to do this sort of thing..competition is a very healthy thing in any sport. Every company involved in KeSPA and e-Sports understands that in order for e-Sports to be professional, it has to be a standalone governing body that has no other motives besides making e-Sports better here in Korea. MBCGame and OGN could have bid on the rights if they wanted to. We even had a second bidding because the first one OGN and MBC declined to bid. Everything done so far has been done to create a more competitive atmosphere. We aren't just trying to muscle out OGN and MBC. There is a bidding process for each game since there is now enough games a week to make it similar to baseball where different TV stations bid for the games they want. I can't stress enough how wrong you guys are about Proleague dying. We are trying to reinvigorate the StarCraft community by spreading the Proleague contents to the US and Europe, whether its online or TV. We are working on getting StarCraft hosted at other major events (besides just WCG) as well as creating a new StarCraft league that players in North America, South America, Asia and Europe can all participate in.
We care about expanding e-Sports globally and this is only the first step. I hope you guys change your mind about this whole situation being so grave for Proleague. It will carry on as it has and continue to get better.
If any of you here would like some answers and are willing to have an intelligent discussion about this, feel free to email me at stuart@iegroup.co.kr.
No flaming please. Only intelligent responses.
Stuart Brooks | International Business Manager International E-Sports Group Inc
Tasteless on TV ASAP!
|
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Thank you Brooks for giving us the other perspective on this issue and for helping to clarify what we did not understand. I think all of us were under the impression that OGN and MBC were still doing most of the work for the Proleague. If the KeSPA can run it on their own, then their move makes much more sense.
You make some very good points about the benefits of this move. It's unfortunate that we don't have anyone from OGN or MBC to offer their own perspective, because they might have equally-good points. Still, at least we can now rest easier knowing that this decision was probably not as ridiculous or as damaging as we first saw it (and it may even be beneficial).
|
United States32499 Posts
since when did our overly cynical and sarcastic staff start taking statements from one side in a very polarized debate on face value
|
I understand all of the misconceptions, half-truths and the like. Both MBC and OGN do a lot of work for the leagues as they are the broadcast partners. KeSPA does the organizational duties for the league (planning, referee etc.) I never said they don't do a lot of work and the work that OGN and MBC does is extremely important to the health of the various professional leagues here in Korea. I understand the misgivings you have about 'taking' the league from the people who truly pushed StarCraft into the public eye. It would be a lot easier for me to explain this sort of thing ub person but since im here in Seoul and most of you are spread out, its almost impossible!
Sebasta -
I think you misunderstood my post. I never said that a broadcast entity could not be successful in running a league and/or tournament. It would be plain ludicrous for me to say such a thing considering both MBC and OGN has had great successes running their leagues. I said that a broadcast entity like MBC and OGN should not be involved with a league on the day to day operations. It can create problems in the media and the league itself because they could potentially be biased towards making themselves look better. Just remember, I never said that either MBC or OGN did any of this, I'm just saying that it could potentially happen, which is why KeSPA has separated the day to day operations away from broadcasters.
|
On February 22 2007 06:05 d4d wrote:Stuart, as everyone yet, thanks for talking to us. It's good to have direct input from a player in e-Sports. I would love to have the MSL/OGN side of the story too... Hope they stay sharp and send someone over quick Now one thing made me tick. Show nested quote +On February 21 2007 19:59 IEGbrooks wrote:1 - If I didn't think it was ready to have bidding on proleague matches, IEG would not have bid for these rights. To my knowledge, the schedule will be sorted out with exactly which dates and times for each station, so I do not think any of you will need to go channel surfing to find your favorite Proleague matchup. Obviously without you fans, there would be none of this so we are trying to make it as easy as possible to tune in. Expect more online coverage of StarCraft, especially in the States. No more youtube VOD's . Tell me this was just a wink and not that you will also work in removing material from YouTube. For the rest of it, good luck in your endeavors! Stay around. I think (hope) he meant no more relying on youtube VODs.
|
Yes SonuvBob, these illegal VOD's of proleague will be stopped. We should be supplying VOD's to one of the SC community sites for people to watch.
|
Are you planning on making VODs available through an ad-supported service like GOM player uses, or something subscription-based?
|
On February 22 2007 16:41 IEGbrooks wrote: I understand all of the misconceptions, half-truths and the like. Both MBC and OGN do a lot of work for the leagues as they are the broadcast partners. KeSPA does the organizational duties for the league (planning, referee etc.) I never said they don't do a lot of work and the work that OGN and MBC does is extremely important to the health of the various professional leagues here in Korea. I understand the misgivings you have about 'taking' the league from the people who truly pushed StarCraft into the public eye. It would be a lot easier for me to explain this sort of thing ub person but since im here in Seoul and most of you are spread out, its almost impossible!
Sebasta -
I think you misunderstood my post. I never said that a broadcast entity could not be successful in running a league and/or tournament. It would be plain ludicrous for me to say such a thing considering both MBC and OGN has had great successes running their leagues. I said that a broadcast entity like MBC and OGN should not be involved with a league on the day to day operations. It can create problems in the media and the league itself because they could potentially be biased towards making themselves look better. Just remember, I never said that either MBC or OGN did any of this, I'm just saying that it could potentially happen, which is why KeSPA has separated the day to day operations away from broadcasters.
Yeah, sure broadcasting companies have potential to create problems if they dominate the day-to-day operation of a league in the long term. But KeSPA also has the potential to rise problems if they organize the Proleague without supports from OGN/MBC(do you agree that?) And since OSL and MSL have been so successful for many years that KeSPA and IEG etc still have a lot to learn from MBC/OGN in terms of progaming. It's not only unfair but also unwise to treat OGN/MBC simple bidders in this movement.
|
On February 22 2007 17:20 IEGbrooks wrote: Yes SonuvBob, these illegal VOD's of proleague will be stopped. We should be supplying VOD's to one of the SC community sites for people to watch.
Excuse for my straightness, but I think there's no way you can stop these so-called "illegal VODs". I mean, what's your plan to implement this kind of enforcement? Prosecuting everyone who rips the VOD and puts them online? Many giant entertainment companies like Sony BMG, PolyGram etc, are suffering from mp3 and so do large film producing companies. I don't think any of them has less power than IEG does. Come on, we all know what you are talking about are great solutions, but in ideal. I don't think they are options that will work in real world. At last, we need time and consensus from public to make things better, not just ideas.
|
IEGbrooks, your posts here are definitely appreciated, don't get me wrong.
I don't think though you are sufficiently showing that OGN and MBC are doing as little a share of the work as you are saying. The way I still see it is that OGN and MBC run the proleague and KesPA lends its assistance. Making OGN and MBC pay to show leagues that they run just doesn't seem right.
What does KesPA do? What don't OGN and MBC do?
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Sebasta, i think your jumping the gun a bit. He's talking about having an official VOD released of proleague matches (keep in mind, that if rumours are true, then this season we would have proleague poured down our gullets in great quantities). Obviously, there isn't a guarenteed solution to "illegal" VODs but i dont believe that is IEG's intent from what ive gathered from the discussion. If it was, do you think they would offer distrubution to the community? i honestly believe that they are on our side with this and that comparing it to mp3 lawsuits isn't in the same frame of reference.
Also, / \. | | | | Hire tasteless
|
I completely agree with your points Sebasta. What im emphasizing is fans will not have to look for illegal VOD's because we would be providing the service for free or for a nominal fee for a whole season of Proleague. Obviously it would be difficult to enforce but most people choose the 'legal' route if it is available to them at little or no cost to them, besides the official VOD's are much better quality .
We hope to officially announce the Proleague broadcasting plan in the near future as well as a few of the new StarCraft projects.
Apparently over at GosuGamers, I am not to be trusted about anything I say. I again express my thanks to the TL community of readers who have expressed their dismay in a logical and mature way. I have no problem addressing these issues if they are expressed in the proper way. All of you are more than welcome to not believe a word I say because I know words of one man will not sway your doubts as much as actions can. All I can hope for is you keep an open mind and let us continue doing our work.
|
I hope you guys go with the free service. In my experience, there is an enormous difference between a free (ad-supported) service and even the cheapest pay service. Pulling that credit card out, even for a tiny payment, is a pretty big step for a lot of people, especially for the younger folks.
Also, Tasteless for President (and Proleague commentator).
|
IGNbrooks, I really loved the way you treat the SC Community in TL. I, from the philippines, am also a fan of Korean Progaming and was definitely glad to know that you also care for international Starcraft progaming. I wish we Filipino could have leagues like this. Too bad, only 11% of our youth is interested in Starcraft...
IGNbrooks, are you planning for an online channel, I mean, live streaming?
|
On February 22 2007 07:09 Aphelion02 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2007 17:55 IEGbrooks wrote: Also to whomever said OGN and MBC run the league..they have not done so in a few years. KeSPA referees all of the matches, provides the controller of spectator mode and actually allowed Ongamenet to use the IPARK Stadium. Thats disingenous. The entire culture of progaming, the mapmaking, the technical know-how were all built up by OGN and MBC. Its not just about rights or writing a few checks, the whole groundwork upon which proleague rests is done by those two broadcasting stations. he was only talking about the current running of the leagues, not who established the groundwork. i dont know who actually does what but the buildup in the technicalities supporting the proleague isnt relevant to who currently does the brunt of the work.
|
On February 22 2007 19:56 starter[eTel] wrote: IGNbrooks, I really loved the way you treat the SC Community in TL. I, from the philippines, am also a fan of Korean Progaming and was definitely glad to know that you also care for international Starcraft progaming. I wish we Filipino could have leagues like this. Too bad, only 11% of our youth is interested in Starcraft...
IGNbrooks, are you planning for an online channel, I mean, live streaming?
11%, it's a pretty high percentage i'd say... in Hong Kong, the ratio of youth interested in bw is counted in ppm...
|
On February 22 2007 20:04 SeBASTa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2007 19:56 starter[eTel] wrote: IGNbrooks, I really loved the way you treat the SC Community in TL. I, from the philippines, am also a fan of Korean Progaming and was definitely glad to know that you also care for international Starcraft progaming. I wish we Filipino could have leagues like this. Too bad, only 11% of our youth is interested in Starcraft...
IGNbrooks, are you planning for an online channel, I mean, live streaming? 11%, it's a pretty high percentage i'd say... in Hong Kong, the ratio of youth interested in bw is counted in ppm...
I'm in Hong Kong=P Hong Kong people just like MMORPGs....
Anyways, I do hope the influence of StarCraft can be expanded.
Good luck
|
On February 22 2007 18:50 IEGbrooks wrote:I completely agree with your points Sebasta. What im emphasizing is fans will not have to look for illegal VOD's because we would be providing the service for free or for a nominal fee for a whole season of Proleague. Obviously it would be difficult to enforce but most people choose the 'legal' route if it is available to them at little or no cost to them, besides the official VOD's are much better quality .
I'd really appreciate that if IEG can provide this kind of service which is not easily accessible through OGN/MBC, but I think what we(both IEG and the SC community) concern most doesnt lie on this. What you need to consider at the first place is how to satisfy Korean SC Community, only then, you can thinking about spread Progaming worldwide.
I dont know the details of the charge of watching OGN and MBC game channels, but what I guess is someone pays a monthly charge and then enjoys all the Starleague and Proleague and Duel/Survive League provided by OGN/MBC. If Proleague is no longer livecasted in OGN/MBC, will people be happy with paying for the extra fee charged by IEG or whoever does the livecast thing? This is just one of the many difficulties you will encounter without OGN and MBC, because they are too important to get rid of. I mean, at least, KeSPA should give some privileges in auction. Mayby KeSPA did provide privileges, but not enough to keep the relationship.
|
On February 22 2007 20:42 HaFnium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2007 20:04 SeBASTa wrote:On February 22 2007 19:56 starter[eTel] wrote: IGNbrooks, I really loved the way you treat the SC Community in TL. I, from the philippines, am also a fan of Korean Progaming and was definitely glad to know that you also care for international Starcraft progaming. I wish we Filipino could have leagues like this. Too bad, only 11% of our youth is interested in Starcraft...
IGNbrooks, are you planning for an online channel, I mean, live streaming? 11%, it's a pretty high percentage i'd say... in Hong Kong, the ratio of youth interested in bw is counted in ppm... I'm in Hong Kong=P Hong Kong people just like MMORPGs.... Anyways, I do hope the influence of StarCraft can be expanded. Good luck
I also wished the best in my country too...good luck to all of us...
|
Osaka26954 Posts
I will tell you that, I will continue to provide and promote VODs on this site until a viable, reasonable, and legitimate VOD option is availible. We have scrapped along far too hard to abandon VODs without another longterm, concrete option.
|
this isn't the end for the proleague. they will come to an agreement for sure.
and if not...we will see savior, nada, midas, casy, yellow etc playing bwcl! horray!
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On February 22 2007 20:42 HaFnium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2007 20:04 SeBASTa wrote:On February 22 2007 19:56 starter[eTel] wrote: IGNbrooks, I really loved the way you treat the SC Community in TL. I, from the philippines, am also a fan of Korean Progaming and was definitely glad to know that you also care for international Starcraft progaming. I wish we Filipino could have leagues like this. Too bad, only 11% of our youth is interested in Starcraft...
IGNbrooks, are you planning for an online channel, I mean, live streaming? 11%, it's a pretty high percentage i'd say... in Hong Kong, the ratio of youth interested in bw is counted in ppm... I'm in Hong Kong=P Hong Kong people just like MMORPGs.... Anyways, I do hope the influence of StarCraft can be expanded. Good luck
shit really? OMGG FINALLY MORE PEOPLE FROM HK~!!!
On February 22 2007 22:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I will tell you that, I will continue to provide and promote VODs on this site until a viable, reasonable, and legitimate VOD option is availible. We have scrapped along far too hard to abandon VODs without another longterm, concrete option.
MANLIFESTO FIGHTINGG!!
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Stuart; just wondering... you said IEG wants to try to spread SC more globally.. does this mean the possible inclusion of foreign maps into PL? I mean, something like a 2v2 map perhaps?
I was just thinking that this is one way in which foreigners can be more including in these things and perhaps bring some more respect for us in general?
|
On February 22 2007 18:50 IEGbrooks wrote:Apparently over at GosuGamers, I am not to be trusted about anything I say. I again express my thanks to the TL community of readers who have expressed their dismay in a logical and mature way. I have no problem addressing these issues if they are expressed in the proper way. All of you are more than welcome to not believe a word I say because I know words of one man will not sway your doubts as much as actions can. All I can hope for is you keep an open mind and let us continue doing our work.
I take it you are refering to my news.... That was not that you cannot be trusted, but to quote you back to yourself...keeping an open mind.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On February 23 2007 04:48 cYaN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2007 18:50 IEGbrooks wrote:Apparently over at GosuGamers, I am not to be trusted about anything I say. I again express my thanks to the TL community of readers who have expressed their dismay in a logical and mature way. I have no problem addressing these issues if they are expressed in the proper way. All of you are more than welcome to not believe a word I say because I know words of one man will not sway your doubts as much as actions can. All I can hope for is you keep an open mind and let us continue doing our work. I take it you are refering to my news.... That was not that you cannot be trusted, but to quote you back to yourself...keeping an open mind. Actually, i think he was referring to the comments from users...The later comments if i remember correctly were pretty negative.
#11 HeRo[LangJai] @ 2007-02-22 21:34:50 Please don't think that the IEG employee can be trusted, he's talking out of his ass. He's just trying to defend his company and is doing so by trying to raise all our hopes. KeSPA and IEG had no moral right to do what they did.
And I assure you that there won't be progaming in North America, maybe Europe and other parts of Asia, but not North America. It's also unlikely that this will lead to that, this will cause more harm then it will good.
crap like this just angers me
|
|
Canada2151 Posts
SO basically Kespa hijacked the ProLeague from OGN/MBC...well OGN/MBC allowed them to do so...then OGN/MBC go, wtf? we still own it cuz we run it, duh. So then Kespa is like, no we own it, we ARE the StarCraft League, therefore we're gonna bid these rights because...we need money?
wtf? First off, it's not that e-sports is different from normal sports, it's the fact that TV CHANNELS had started the sport, not actually official leagues. Let's not seperate e-sports and seclude it even more from other professional sports. It's just a slightly different issue that needs to be examined closesly and...WTF? screw IEG or IGE...or w/e...either that or make OGN/MBC merge their gaming shit, eh?
|
|
On February 22 2007 22:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I will tell you that, I will continue to provide and promote VODs on this site until a viable, reasonable, and legitimate VOD option is availible. We have scrapped along far too hard to abandon VODs without another longterm, concrete option.
Damned straight man. Some of the greatest words I've ever heard.
|
You've stated several times that OGN/MBC are not doing the biggest part of the work but you haven't explained what kind and how much work the different parties does. Furthermore the fact that OGN/MBC refuses to bid because they think that they will lose money if they have to buy broadcast rigths means that most channels would probably also lose money on those conditions. You are rigth when you say that it's not healthy for a sport if the broadcaster has to much power over the leauge and that they should only worry about their camera angles. However that also means that any intrested channel will demand a fully functional league where the only thing they have to provide is those camera crews. That means that someone will have to take care of the practical details. IEG have expressed no such intrest and we want to draw a paralell to other sports it would be Kespa's roll to make sure that all requirments are meet. I was under the impression that OGN/MBC still owned the areans where most games take place and still manage the hardware and advertising/information to fans?
This is the most important question: Is Kespa 100 % sure that they are ready to take total controll over all those things? Starcraft may be able to take the step up to a professional sport but it's still a small market and a pretty young one. If Kespa isn't 100 % sure they can do it we should be worried. Another intresting point is that most of the teams in Kespa are not independant organisations like they are in other sports, but rather just a wing of a larger compaines promotional department. Being totally dependent on a sponsor means that the sponsor expects air time (which they had before) and stability in the leauge. Now I'm sure their sponsors are all aware of this but what I'm not sure about is how much extra they are prepared to pay to get a working leauge going.
OGN/MBC seems to be thinking that Kespa is not able to provide the practical details of a working league and that no other broadcast station would be intrested in that ammount of work either. Considering their knowledge of the BW scence in Korea a logical assumption would be to belive that they are rigth. In that case you need them more than they need you.
I'm not blaming IEG, from a buisness standpoint your position makes sense. I'm sure you would like to bring Starcraft to the international community but the fact is that you have to make Starcraft survive in Korea first. Which makes me think that there is a real risk here that your move could damage Starcraft badly because OGN/MBC can't survive without the proleauge and your succes basically hinges on the fact that Kespa can pick up the slack and handle everything themselves.
Can they?
|
Canada9720 Posts
It would be interesting to have some light shed on this matter from the perspective of someone aligned with OGN/MBC. Most of the Koreans seem to think this is a bad thing, it's hard for us to come to a conclusion without receiving information from all facets of the situation.
|
i think we all want the details on what exactly Kespa does for the league and what OGN/MBC provide for the league.
AND if OGN/MBC did provide just the cameras and other broadcast companies, will the league will still be able to be held without much detractions? if answer is yes, then selling the rights for broadcast is fair. If answer is no, then i think you're taking a risk in hope that OGN/MBC would give in and pay for the broadcasting.
This seems extremely unfair to OGN/MBC because they provide the venues and hardware and other things in putting on the show. (this is what i read here so i dunno if its true.) Will Kespa or IEG willing to buy these from OGN/MBC? Selling off the broadcast right to a league without property that the league runs on seems extremely stupid since the equipment will need to be rebought and re-rented, which would increase the cost greatly.
What would exactly happen if OGN/MBC refused to buy the broadcast rights? OGN/MBC could screw IEG and Kespa and turn their venues into bigger starleague, then IEG would lose a ton of money, unless they were willing to start a new league themselves. They may lose sponsors, but i would think sponsors would be willing to change rather than support a company that imo immorally took over.
I dunno exactly how the business world works since im a science major and didn't really study business, but it seems to me that IEG just wants to be in the middle and take some money. And it doesn't seem like it'll be true that MBC and OGN reps would just sit there while broadcast rights are being voted on? they probably voted but didn't get majority is my guess?
its gonna also be interesting to see how IEG will expand e-sports. Other than china, i dont think there is any other places that have as strong support?
|
If the Proleauge crasched I think OGN/MBC would do just fine because then they could create a new leauge (call it Champions leauge or something) and invite Kespa under the condition that OGN/MBC holds the broadcast rigths. Because without any league the teams kill themselves.
So I guess they have some faith in themselves being able to manage the full leauge OR they have faith in IEG being able to get a broadcaster to commit as much as OGN/MBC OR they just hope OGN/MBC cave and give IEG some money. But OGN/MBC seems to be playing it hardball.
|
getting another broadcaster to commit as much as OGN/MBC is very unlikely so it seems like IEG decided to "gamble" and hope OGN/MBC gives them money. Thats how i see it at least.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
So... any local millionaires here (possibly from poker money?) who wants to bid for these rights and piss everyone off? hahaha.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Something popped into my head as i was cooking in regards to VODs and their legailty. If IEG is to own the rights to Proleague and MBC/OGN make the broadcast itself, then would it not be the responsibility of those two companies to "deal with" the VOD issue that has been raised (regarding legality).
In the same breath, if IEG is promising/suggesting VODs to the community, would those not have to come from either MBC/OGN who would be providing the broadcast in the first place?
...all this is making my head hurt, ill leave it to the suits to deal with :p
|
United States12180 Posts
I regret not reading this post until now, and especially regret not reading this comment thread which actually presents the official word from one of the sides. From the information provided, it can be determined that:
- KeSPA is a type of "players union" such that it consists of team representatives and their sponsors, as well as emissaries from the two broadcast companies, some third party sponsors, and is powered by funds from the Korean government. Essentially it's a committee that commands the flow of joint leagues such as Proleague.
- OGN and MBC both own private leagues which they market relentlessly through commercials and player highlight programs, such as About Starcraft. They govern their respective leagues absolutely, and receive support from third party sponsors and players from KeSPA.
- OGN and MBC came first, and birthed the televised league concept. Pro teams were formed and eventually sponsors emerged to sponsor these teams. When things started becoming more complicated and multiple leagues/tournaments began appearing due to increased demand, KeSPA was formed as a sort of regulatory entity. Through KeSPA, inter-channel leagues and events began to form, such as SuperFight and Proleague.
- However, because MBC and OGN were no longer the two main voices in the league community, they began to resent KeSPA when KeSPA began overruling their concerns, primarily on the issue of broadcast rights. KeSPA then called MBC/OGN's bluff and initiated a broadcast auction, which went to IEG when MBC and OGN declined to bid on principle that the league system was created and popularized by them alone. There was probably a pact in place between MBC and OGN where both agreed not to bid, forcing KeSPA to relinquish broadcast rights to them and canceling the auction. They then had additional disgust for IEG, a company which appeared to come out of nowhere and accept the bid, and then won by default.
- IEG has the capability to provide worldwide league coverage, but the structure of the league is undecided because the pre-existing leagues are under OGN/MBC format, who presumably will decline to participate unless they get free broadcast rights. This would mean that new broadcast channels would have to pay IEG to carry and create their own Starcraft leagues and league systems, and KeSPA is under contract with IEG so they have to provide the players and sponsors.
- Supporters of MBC/OGN will probably boycott any channel that supports IEG, at least for a little while. OGN and MBC will likely lose much of their programming block. Depending on how the loss of viewers impacts them financially, OGN/MBC may buckle and agree to sign on with IEG, or perhaps appeal directly to KeSPA. They are gambling that nobody knows how big an impact a loss of Starcraft coverage will be until it happens.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
On February 23 2007 14:47 Kennigit wrote: Something popped into my head as i was cooking in regards to VODs and their legailty. If IEG is to own the rights to Proleague and MBC/OGN make the broadcast itself, then would it not be the responsibility of those two companies to "deal with" the VOD issue that has been raised (regarding legality).
In the same breath, if IEG is promising/suggesting VODs to the community, would those not have to come from either MBC/OGN who would be providing the broadcast in the first place?
...all this is making my head hurt, ill leave it to the suits to deal with :p
I guess this is my uneducated pitch at it, but I'm assuming the contracts/rights would be different for the different markets, and MBC/OGN would only get it for the domestic (Korean) market.
|
sounds like a typical media war to me. OGN/MBC want to have a bigger slice of the pie and Kespa want to introduce more competitions.
|
MURICA15980 Posts
I guess OGN/MBC are saying they baked the pie so they should be able to give it to who they want.
|
Canada2151 Posts
On February 23 2007 07:48 Wasabi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2007 07:46 Phantom wrote: SO basically Kespa hijacked the ProLeague from OGN/MBC...well OGN/MBC allowed them to do so...then OGN/MBC go, wtf? we still own it cuz we run it, duh. So then Kespa is like, no we own it, we ARE the StarCraft League, therefore we're gonna bid these rights because...we need money?
wtf? First off, it's not that e-sports is different from normal sports, it's the fact that TV CHANNELS had started the sport, not actually official leagues. Let's not seperate e-sports and seclude it even more from other professional sports. It's just a slightly different issue that needs to be examined closesly and...WTF? screw IEG or IGE...or w/e...either that or make OGN/MBC merge their gaming shit, eh? god... This kind of reply is what you expect when you haven't read ANY of IEGbrook's posts (IE the first page). And he's posted a lot in this news article.
i apologize for the unthought out comment, but to be fair, he did start posting on the third page, and the original posts did not point me to the light =(
|
On February 23 2007 03:03 Plexa wrote: Stuart; just wondering... you said IEG wants to try to spread SC more globally.. does this mean the possible inclusion of foreign maps into PL? I mean, something like a 2v2 map perhaps?
I was just thinking that this is one way in which foreigners can be more including in these things and perhaps bring some more respect for us in general?
Wow, IEG perhaps will be the bread and butter for the Starcraft community to spread. Ah yeah...
|
On February 21 2007 08:32 uhjoo wrote: The Starleagues do not involve KeSPA, only the Proleague
Thus, OSL = OGN starleague, MSL = MBC starleague
That is not true... didn't you see the MSL finals? Where KeSPA made the referee ruling? KeSPA are the referees in all Korean leagues.
|
|
|
|