• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidHearth LiquidLegends
EST 07:26
CET 13:26
KST 21:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • WCS
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • BarCraft
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL7] Ro16 Preview Pt. 2 - Contender's Game6[BSL6] Ro24 Group E and F Previews8WCS Winter 2019: RO16 Gate Crashers9Code S RO32 Preview: Groups E, F & G18The Best Games of January 20195
Community News
Maru, soO, INnoVation and others advance to Code S RO161Qikz Interview15SC2 esports team members included in Blizzard layoffs112Feb 12 Community Update (Blink cost rollback)152Iron Chain becomes Mkers, acquires ShoWTimE12Cheeseadelphia to hold five SC2 events in 201919WCS Winter RO32 concludes, RO16 groups drawn63
StarCraft 2
General
Maru, soO, INnoVation and others advance to Code S RO16 Feb 12 Community Update (Blink cost rollback) A place to learn for the Platinum level player Using SC2 to study collective intelligence SC2 General Discussion & Simple Q/A
Tourneys
Go4SC2 Europe [WCS 2019] Winter Series - Group Stage 2 - Day 4 Afreeca World - Invitational 32! [GSL 2019] Season 1 - Ro32 Group G [TLMC 12] Map Contest Tournament - Finals Day
Fan Clubs
Golden Fan Club The TY Fan Club The FanTaSy Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Strategy
[G] TheCore Lite - Advanced Keyboard Layout The LotV Terran Help Me Thread The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers TL Strategy Spawning Tool Build Thread
Custom Maps
uptodate training maps? micro or macro Simple Questions/Answers Work In Progress Melee Maps [M] (2) Ishual [UMS] Entropy TD
Single Player
Mutation Week 145 Together Forever Ranks/Tiers Mutation #145 Together Forever Mutation Week 144 Ulnar New Year Ranks/Tiers Mutation #144 Ulnar New Year Mutation Week 143 Attrition Warfare Ranks/Tiers
Brood War
General
[ASL7] Ro16 Preview Pt. 2 - Contender's Game Zerg Walling Ideas vs Terran (early factory) [ASL7] Ro16 Preview Pt. 1 - The Group of Death Grant D making decisions based on twitter poll? ASL7 Cheerful Contest Remembering Bisu
Tourneys
[ASL7] Ro16 Group C The Casual Games of the Week Thread EGM Fight Night #2 - Sponsored by AfreecaTV [ASL7] Ro16 Group B [BSL6] RO24 - Group F - Sunday 19:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player New Hydra Bust from Soulkey Cheese Hydra ZvT [I] Liquipedia Strat Update
Other Games
Other Games
Pokémon Go! Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread [WoW] Battle for Azeroth Vampire: The Eternal Struggle
Artifact
Introducing DrawTwo.gg! Tips for new players Hyped's post-nerf tier list
CS:GO
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive IEM Katowice Major 2019 Challengers Stage DreamHack Masters Las Vegas 2017 Minor Championships - Katowice 2019 TL Community team (NA)
Smash Bros
Smash Small VOD Thread Smash Bros. Melee General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
HotS: WP and Funny Moments 2/4/19 Ana/Abathur PTR patch notes QQ/Rage Thread. HOTS Dev Update 2/8/19 [HotS] Why I'll Keep Playing HotS
Overwatch
RUOW CUP Season 2 announcement!
LoL General
LoL Tournaments
LoL Strategy
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars
Media & Entertainment
Movies you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece What Are You Reading 2019 [Books] Dune [TV] Suits
Sports
NBA Season 2018-2019 2018 - 2019 Football Thread 2018 NFL and CFB season NHL 18-19: Karlsson my wayward Sen F1 2018
Tech Support
Backup software Simple Questions Simple Answers Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread TL-API list of API and examples needed TwitchTest: Twitch Bandwidth Tester
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Happy Birthday R1CH! Gay StarCraft Players DC/VA/MD Weekly Nerd Dinner! Who's in?
TL Mafia
Active List of Mafia Games 2.0 A Game of Thrones Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL voice mafia!
User Streams
[Stream] Indy [Stream] Hiro> Terran [Stream] LiquidTLO [Stream] maniac1122
Blogs
Featured Blogs
Bigfan Becomes a Caster
BigFan
some new art stuff
Glider
Three Volume IIII
Mizenhauer
Comics Part II: Star Wars VIII
Falling
Translation: How Soulkey Became a Pro-Gamer…
Letmelose
Regular Blogs
SC:Remastered FPVOD: RusAiur…
RusAiur
Casting Broodwar games!…
reps)squishy
So I have been to some place…
opisska
the desperation of creating …
fishjie
Some random music I've co…
Jockmcplop
Advice on getting affordable f…
Tak3r
Guitar Covers #2
NeThZOR
Spiritual alienation…
Starlightsun
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1135 users

[D] Redistributing money on melee maps

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Saygee
Profile Joined November 2018
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-28 08:07:49
November 28 2018 08:05 GMT
#1
I've been thinking for a while now about what would happen if the minerals on melee maps were altered in order to reduce "snowballing" in the mid-game and to allow players to turtle up a bit more and stabilize their position. I know turtling is seen as terribly boring, anti-fun. But currently the game is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where there's no defensive stances and players are so vulnerable that a simple Oracle can end the game less than five minutes in.

So here's the idea: Four of the mineral patches at a player's main base and both gases are greatly increased, perhaps to 10,000 or even up to 20,000--basically unlimited. And in the natural base, two mineral patches increased, maybe to only 5,000. Minerals from the fifth and sixth bases would have some patches removed and gas reduced to compensate.

This would prevent a winning player from closing out too easily, as there's not as much reward available for gaining full map control. And a losing player would have a sort of guaranteed income to keep him in the game. Also, players would have an incentive to turtle up a bit more and protect their main base, as it would now have a huge value, especially into the late game.

It would also be interesting if all bases after the fourth were greatly reduced, perhaps down to just 3 or 4 mineral patches. This would cause games to move into an end game more often, with enough mineral flow to keep the game interesting. I think everyone has at least one memory of an amazing end game, or a game that was decided by just a few units in a 1 base vs. 1 base. It is obvious that games do not need a huge amount of mineral flow to be interesting. They need to be kept equal for longer periods of time.

Thoughts? I know there would be some issues, especially with Terran Mech already being a turtle style and such. But I'm mainly concerned how the gameplay in general would improve, and we can pretend that any special broken aspects would be rebalanced.

If I worked on something like this, would anyone like to play test it with me?
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1354 Posts
November 28 2018 19:49 GMT
#2
i completely agree, blizz hard should redistribute all the moneys they get from us making all those maps,
at least send all the mapmakers that "skin/ui" bundle that no one else can have..

oh wait that would be so .. ...?

..

sorry, on topic, i hope you get people to test your idea, if i can help you do your stuff, do ask (stuff in the editor)

as far as i can tell, no one indulges melee mapmakers to do what you want
but that is not to say it is a bad idea!

gl
"not enough rights"
Odowan Paleolithic
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States226 Posts
November 28 2018 21:43 GMT
#3
On November 29 2018 04:49 fluidrone wrote:
i completely agree, blizz hard should redistribute all the moneys they get from us making all those maps,
at least send all the mapmakers that "skin/ui" bundle that no one else can have..

oh wait that would be so .. ...?

..


I agree.

Now offon topic.

On November 28 2018 17:05 Saygee wrote:
But currently the game is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where there's no defensive stances and players are so vulnerable that a simple Oracle can end the game less than five minutes in.


I think this has more to do with 12 workers start than 6 workers. Granted it will be even more volatile with 6 worker start.
But you have more varied build orders instead of what we have now.

On November 28 2018 17:05 Saygee wrote:
So here's the idea: Four of the mineral patches at a player's main base and both gases are greatly increased, perhaps to 10,000 or even up to 20,000--basically unlimited. And in the natural base, two mineral patches increased, maybe to only 5,000. Minerals from the fifth and sixth bases would have some patches removed and gas reduced to compensate.


Has would be pleased. But this change would seem to benefit Terran more.


On November 28 2018 17:05 Saygee wrote:
It would also be interesting if all bases after the fourth were greatly reduced, perhaps down to just 3 or 4 mineral patches. This would cause games to move into an end game more often, with enough mineral flow to keep the game interesting. I think everyone has at least one memory of an amazing end game, or a game that was decided by just a few units in a 1 base vs. 1 base. It is obvious that games do not need a huge amount of mineral flow to be interesting. They need to be kept equal for longer periods of time.


Warcraft 3 had a upkeep mechanic which makes it harder to accumulate resource when you have a large force. With that mechanic, win by attrition is still possible when forces are small enough. Implementations problems aside, with the 5th and further base at less value, wouldn't zergs be forced to take some sort of timing before 5th in order to maximize what they can trade for?
I need a bigger fridge. I cannot hold all the Cheese that are given to me.
Saygee
Profile Joined November 2018
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-29 08:51:41
November 29 2018 08:51 GMT
#4
I didn't like the upkeep mechanic because it kicks in heavily when one line is crossed. So someone who sits on 50 food against 49 food is losing 30% income for having one food more than their opponent. Maybe if it scaled a bit for every food after 50, then it would be less abusable.

As for whether Zerg would suffer on maps with less minerals, I'm not sure. They get less value out of their hatcheries, but less hatcheries would be required in a game where production falls off much earlier. It's mainly a question of which race is more mineral dependent than gas dependent, because the proportion of gas to minerals would probably go up on this type of map I'm envisioning. But that could be adjusted as well.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4495 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-30 23:15:28
November 30 2018 23:14 GMT
#5
edit: i misread something, sorry
TL+ Member
devidhenry2
Profile Joined December 2018
1 Post
Last Edited: 2018-12-07 22:11:36
December 07 2018 22:11 GMT
#6
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Intel Extreme Masters M…
12:30
Season XIII - Katowice 2019: New Challengers Stage
Ninjas in Pyjamas vs ViCi Gaming
G2 Esports vs TyLoo
Cloud9 vs Winstrike Team
LiquipediaDiscussion
Map Test Tournament
11:30
FINALS DAY
Solar vs ZestLIVE!
Rogue vs herO
soO vs TBD
WardiTV4105
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CrankTV 1805
Beastyqt 595
DeMusliM 555
Stats 423
SC2ShoWTimE 48
ForGG 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Flash 4509
Rain 1635
ZerO 753
Zeus 627
Pusan 233
Soulkey 215
EffOrt 186
Stork 145
Larva 103
Mong 79
[ Show more ]
Reach 58
Hyuk 52
Shine 20
NaDa 19
MisO 17
Rock 9
ggaemo 8
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes718
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
rubinoeu92
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi4181
minikerr121
ROOTCatZ88
Organizations
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO90022
StarCraft 2
OGamingTV SC2 294
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
dreamhackcs95
StarCraft: Brood War
Classic BW VODs24
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Miezekotze 22
• HKG_Chickenman14
• DivinesiaTV 8
• D4rkn0ob1k 6
• Bosshoore 5
• LUISG 4
• NeNeSh 1
StarCraft: Brood War
• g0rynich 24
• sscaitournament10
• Michael_bg 1
Heroes of the Storm
• chu8210
• finalelement0
Other Games
• Honor. 1955
• RPGLimitBreak705
• HappyZerGling289
• Makarimorph1230
• Algost 11
• TenshiSC28
• PoisonTV5
• AntiFusion12
• ezykron2
• SinO[Ob] 1
Upcoming Events
BW Jeez Weekly
34m
Go4SC2
34m
Belair 50
WCS
2h 34m
Serral vs Rail
GunGFuBanDa vs Harstem
Proxy Tempest
4h 34m
BSL: ProLeague
5h 34m
Dewalt vs Bakuryu
DragOn vs Napoleon
WCS
6h 34m
TIME vs Silky
Kelazhur vs Astrea
BaseTradeTV Misc.
12h 34m
OSC
13h 34m
Showmatch
14h 34m
Tim vs Jealous
OSC
21h 34m
[ Show More ]
God Azae League
21h 34m
Proxy Tempest
1d 6h
ESChamp Toronto
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 21h
Mini vs Larva
Sacsri vs Rain
OlimoLeague
1d 22h
Alpha Pro Series
2 days
Harstem vs Bly
GSL Code S
2 days
Zest vs Patience
aLive vs Rogue
Intel Extreme Masters M…
2 days
OSC
2 days
The Pylon Show
3 days
Intel Extreme Masters M…
3 days
Go4SC2
4 days
God Azae League
4 days
Intel Extreme Masters M…
4 days
OSC
4 days
Proxy Tempest
5 days
God Azae League
5 days
Intel Extreme Masters M…
5 days
REGENERATE OPEN WEEKLY…
6 days
EGM Fight Night
6 days
ESChamp Toronto
6 days
OSC
6 days
Intel Extreme Masters M…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Coach Pupil League S3
2019 WCS Winter Americas China Qualifier
Fight Night #2
ELEAGUE Invitational 2019

Ongoing

BWCL Season 47
2018 Shinhan Tank Proleague
Bombastic StarLeague 6
Afreeca Starleague Season 7
BW Jeez weekly 7
2019 WCS Winter Americas
2019 WCS Winter Europe
2019 Global StarCraft II League Season 1
OSC Team Championship 2018
WardiTV Team Liquid Map Contest Tournament #4
H. Lounge Div. S S1 NA Qual.
H. Lounge Div. S S1 EU Qual.
H. Lounge Div. S S1 NA Qual. 3
H. Lounge Div. S S1 EU Qual. 3
ESEA Season 30 - AU Premier
ESEA Season 30 - NA Premier
ESEA Season 30 - EU Premier
IEM XIII - Katowice Major 2019

Upcoming

BW Jeez weekly 8
2019 WCS Summer
2019 Global StarCraft II League Season 3
2019 WCS Spring
2019 Global StarCraft II League Season 2
2019 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 1
World Electronic Sports Games 2018
IEM Season XIII - Katowice
H. Lounge Div. S S1 NA Qual. 4
H. Lounge Div. S S1 EU Qual. 4
Tespa Collegiate Series 2019
Agon League Season 3
StarSeries & i-League Season 7
BLAST Pro Series: São Paulo '19
WESG 2018 Global Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Flash
2. ZerO
3. Last
4. Bisu
5. EffOrt
6. Rain
7. Soulkey
8. Snow
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Jobs | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Logo & Style Guide | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2019 Team Liquid. All Rights Reserved.