WCSI’ve decided it time that we try to put together a solid guide in finding out how to counter this. It's been discussed since the Beta, and people still start new threads trying to find the solution. Opening any of these threads is truly a shit show. You will quickly realize that there is definitely some good information in there, but more than half of it is random theory-crafting, or more importantly, MISINFORMATION (my main motivation for this thread).
This guide's goal is to centralize good, accurate information in dealing with this all-in.
Examples of misinformation:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 29 2011 07:47 Spiner wrote:
People who are saying "make immortals" are wrong. Immortals suck against marines and banshees. The one unit that their good against (tanks) won't matter because the immortals will die before they can even get in range of the tanks. As a master terran player that does this push a lot, I can say that phoenixes won't work either because there's too many marines covering the tanks/raven/banshees.
The times when I lost were against someone who fast expanded and got out colossus fairly early and delayed the push by meeting my army halfway across the map. The key it seems as a protoss player is not to turtle but force the terran to siege and delay the push until you can get out more gateway units.
People who are saying "make immortals" are wrong. Immortals suck against marines and banshees. The one unit that their good against (tanks) won't matter because the immortals will die before they can even get in range of the tanks. As a master terran player that does this push a lot, I can say that phoenixes won't work either because there's too many marines covering the tanks/raven/banshees.
The times when I lost were against someone who fast expanded and got out colossus fairly early and delayed the push by meeting my army halfway across the map. The key it seems as a protoss player is not to turtle but force the terran to siege and delay the push until you can get out more gateway units.
On July 29 2011 17:58 Omegastorm wrote:
Read this.
On certain map, this push is so so strong ( thats why terrans are using this )
What you can do:
1) Forcefield his ramp and try to delay his push while boosting immortals and gateways
2 )Blink Stalkers with observer.. keep him in his base, he managed to push out? Just base trade. ( theres a specific build order )
3) Flank his army
4) Cancel Nexus and make only units off 1 base ( 3 gate robo is what i like to do )
Read this.
On certain map, this push is so so strong ( thats why terrans are using this )
What you can do:
1) Forcefield his ramp and try to delay his push while boosting immortals and gateways
2 )Blink Stalkers with observer.. keep him in his base, he managed to push out? Just base trade. ( theres a specific build order )
3) Flank his army
4) Cancel Nexus and make only units off 1 base ( 3 gate robo is what i like to do )
On July 29 2011 18:47 Pebbz wrote:
Phoenixes as soon as possible. If you hit your earliest timing, your phoenix should be out when his first banshee is out.
Phoenixes as soon as possible. If you hit your earliest timing, your phoenix should be out when his first banshee is out.
On July 30 2011 00:31 eatmybunnies wrote:
IMO dont make immortals. You would think it would counter the tanks, but at the amount of marines he has it's going ti be useless. I usually get 3 collosus before this timing hits.
I try to stay in the middle of map the to enage there and force a pdd.
Then i run back and warp in more units and try to target the tanks with my collosus.
i get around 5-6gates and 1 robo with crono'd collosus (almost all crono's go into collosus)
i get 2 obs just incase double cloacked banshee
or if he kills my first obs in the middle of the map engagement. i have a spare one in my base.
i build mostly lots and stalkers. IF i have extra gas i would build a couple of sentries
Edit:
also the colosus rape the marines
after you killed his tanks
IMO dont make immortals. You would think it would counter the tanks, but at the amount of marines he has it's going ti be useless. I usually get 3 collosus before this timing hits.
I try to stay in the middle of map the to enage there and force a pdd.
Then i run back and warp in more units and try to target the tanks with my collosus.
i get around 5-6gates and 1 robo with crono'd collosus (almost all crono's go into collosus)
i get 2 obs just incase double cloacked banshee
or if he kills my first obs in the middle of the map engagement. i have a spare one in my base.
i build mostly lots and stalkers. IF i have extra gas i would build a couple of sentries
Edit:
also the colosus rape the marines
after you killed his tanksOn July 31 2011 02:31 chaopow wrote:
I've done some experimenting with different builds, and I've found that high tempelar with storm will finish in time. I've gotten 6gateways, 6 tempelar each with 1 storm ready, before 10 minutes which is generally when they are at your door step. There are also a handful of zealots, and if with 6gates you can easily mop up any units that still survive the storm.
I've done some experimenting with different builds, and I've found that high tempelar with storm will finish in time. I've gotten 6gateways, 6 tempelar each with 1 storm ready, before 10 minutes which is generally when they are at your door step. There are also a handful of zealots, and if with 6gates you can easily mop up any units that still survive the storm.
... -_-
The 1-1-1:
+ Show Spoiler +
1 Rax (reactor)
1 Factory (techlab)
1 Starport (techlab)
The unit composition you will be facing generally consists of marines, tanks, banshees and possibly a raven. It is important to consider that there are many variations of this. A raven is a possibility, cloak is a possibility, helions are a possibility, and SCV’s are a possibility. This build is made to be solid against all of these variations.
The 1-1-1 typically opens up with banshee harass in the mineral lines, followed up by a marine / siege tank/ banshee push that sets up outside your natural. It hits as early as 8 minutes and presents a unit composition that is difficult for Protoss to deal with at that point in the game.
1 Factory (techlab)
1 Starport (techlab)
The unit composition you will be facing generally consists of marines, tanks, banshees and possibly a raven. It is important to consider that there are many variations of this. A raven is a possibility, cloak is a possibility, helions are a possibility, and SCV’s are a possibility. This build is made to be solid against all of these variations.
The 1-1-1 typically opens up with banshee harass in the mineral lines, followed up by a marine / siege tank/ banshee push that sets up outside your natural. It hits as early as 8 minutes and presents a unit composition that is difficult for Protoss to deal with at that point in the game.
Scouting:
+ Show Spoiler +
The first step in stopping this build is getting as much scouting information as humanely possible.
Common Terran openers (credit to mazqo)
- 1rax cc (no gas)
- 2rax (1 reactor 1 techlab)
- Banshees (2 gas, marines)
Very few Terran players will show you both raxes building when executing a 2 rax, or throw up a factory and 2 gases in the face of your probe. You will have at the very least do two rounds of scouting, and must be as persistent as possible.
Your first round of scouting should mainly be centered on the gas timings of the Terran.
Is the gas done before the barracks? Is there no gas at all? Normal gas timing?
If you see no gas before the marine forces you out, you are facing the 1rax CC. If you see that the gas is starting before the barracks, you will know that tech your opponent is favoring tech. If you see a standard gas timing, then you cannot draw any conclusions.
After your probe is forced out, try to poke at the front / sneak back in for more information after a minute or so. This second round of scouting is CRITICAL. As you poke up the ramp, try to get a glimpse of the marine count. If you see 3-4 marines at this point and they take out your probe instantly, you should be wary of a banshee opening. If you see a marauder / reaper (by luck) you can breathe a sigh of relief, the chances of a 1-1-1 coming just dropped by about 99%. If you see just a single marine at the ramp, you can take a gamble and try to get your Probe inside his base in time to see if there is a factory/ 2nd rax on the way.
If you see any of the following (credit to mazqo):
- Reapers
- Marauders
- Early expansion
- No gas
Then chances are that the 1-1-1 is NOT coming. If your scouting probe is denied, or you see a factory, then it is a possibility.
Common Terran openers (credit to mazqo)
- 1rax cc (no gas)
- 2rax (1 reactor 1 techlab)
- Banshees (2 gas, marines)
Very few Terran players will show you both raxes building when executing a 2 rax, or throw up a factory and 2 gases in the face of your probe. You will have at the very least do two rounds of scouting, and must be as persistent as possible.
Your first round of scouting should mainly be centered on the gas timings of the Terran.
Is the gas done before the barracks? Is there no gas at all? Normal gas timing?
If you see no gas before the marine forces you out, you are facing the 1rax CC. If you see that the gas is starting before the barracks, you will know that tech your opponent is favoring tech. If you see a standard gas timing, then you cannot draw any conclusions.
After your probe is forced out, try to poke at the front / sneak back in for more information after a minute or so. This second round of scouting is CRITICAL. As you poke up the ramp, try to get a glimpse of the marine count. If you see 3-4 marines at this point and they take out your probe instantly, you should be wary of a banshee opening. If you see a marauder / reaper (by luck) you can breathe a sigh of relief, the chances of a 1-1-1 coming just dropped by about 99%. If you see just a single marine at the ramp, you can take a gamble and try to get your Probe inside his base in time to see if there is a factory/ 2nd rax on the way.
If you see any of the following (credit to mazqo):
- Reapers
- Marauders
- Early expansion
- No gas
Then chances are that the 1-1-1 is NOT coming. If your scouting probe is denied, or you see a factory, then it is a possibility.
Opening Build:
+ Show Spoiler +
Back at your base, I strongly suggest you open with Stalker-sentry-sentry (stolen from MC). The initial stalker will quickly deal with the scouting SCV, and two sentries are sufficient in holding 2 rax pressure before your WG finishes. (You will need two gases for a smooth build order) Send your initial stalker to any Xel’naga towers to spot for units.
If I am worried about a 1-1-1, I will either do one of these two openers.
1 Gate – FE - Robo
Or
1 Gate – Robo – FE ***
The idea behind this opening is knowing that you can skimp on units. If you sense the 1-1-1 coming, he will try to deny scouting (possibly a bunker) and will have no effective units (marines, unsieged tanks) to deny your expansion. The only thing that you have to worry about is banshees.
I prefer 1 Gate – Robo – FE. It allows me to get out a slightly faster observer, and in the case of some early aggressive push, I probably won’t have to go through cancelling my Expo. Try both out, and see what you are comfortable with.
Once your robo is up, I like to chrono out TWO observers. This is completely stylistic, and others may prefer just a single observer. Two observers I find is simply safer. On maps/spawns with long distances, your observer may be getting to your opponents base when the banshee is halfway to yours. Also, during the critical engagement where the game will be decided, Terrans with Ravens may snipe your observer and cloaked banshees will end the game. A second observer can be useful.
When your observer gets to his base and sees the 1-1-1, immediately look for cloak to be researching on the tech lab. Remember, there are variations of this build, and you want to be prepared for all of them.
Continue to make workers until the low 30’s, and throw up an additional 3 Gateways. Once your 2nd observer is out, immediately start producing immortals when possible. Your gateway units from this point onwards should be zealots and sentries, and just enough stalkers to shut down the banshee harass.
Ideally, you want to be on 4 producing gates and 1 robo with constant immortal production.
If you aren’t confident vs the 1-1-1, I suggest you save your chronoboost for immortals, and your Warpgates.
*** If you KNOW that 2 rax is coming, then both of these builds are NOT optimal. 1 gate - FE - Robo will straight up die to 2 rax, and 1 gate - Robo - FE will lead to a delayed expansion. I suggest other builds like an aggressive 1 Gate - FE - 2 more gates, or safe 2 Gate Robo.
Why no stalkers?
+ Show Spoiler +
If I am worried about a 1-1-1, I will either do one of these two openers.
1 Gate – FE - Robo
Or
1 Gate – Robo – FE ***
The idea behind this opening is knowing that you can skimp on units. If you sense the 1-1-1 coming, he will try to deny scouting (possibly a bunker) and will have no effective units (marines, unsieged tanks) to deny your expansion. The only thing that you have to worry about is banshees.
I prefer 1 Gate – Robo – FE. It allows me to get out a slightly faster observer, and in the case of some early aggressive push, I probably won’t have to go through cancelling my Expo. Try both out, and see what you are comfortable with.
Once your robo is up, I like to chrono out TWO observers. This is completely stylistic, and others may prefer just a single observer. Two observers I find is simply safer. On maps/spawns with long distances, your observer may be getting to your opponents base when the banshee is halfway to yours. Also, during the critical engagement where the game will be decided, Terrans with Ravens may snipe your observer and cloaked banshees will end the game. A second observer can be useful.
When your observer gets to his base and sees the 1-1-1, immediately look for cloak to be researching on the tech lab. Remember, there are variations of this build, and you want to be prepared for all of them.
Continue to make workers until the low 30’s, and throw up an additional 3 Gateways. Once your 2nd observer is out, immediately start producing immortals when possible. Your gateway units from this point onwards should be zealots and sentries, and just enough stalkers to shut down the banshee harass.
Ideally, you want to be on 4 producing gates and 1 robo with constant immortal production.
If you aren’t confident vs the 1-1-1, I suggest you save your chronoboost for immortals, and your Warpgates.
*** If you KNOW that 2 rax is coming, then both of these builds are NOT optimal. 1 gate - FE - Robo will straight up die to 2 rax, and 1 gate - Robo - FE will lead to a delayed expansion. I suggest other builds like an aggressive 1 Gate - FE - 2 more gates, or safe 2 Gate Robo.
Why no stalkers?
+ Show Spoiler +
Overproducing stalkers is one of the most critical mistakes that protoss players make. It may seem unintuitive to engage a marine/banshee/tank force without stalkers, but after many trials and tribulations, I’ve found them to be HUGELY ineffective and even useless. The presence of a raven with PDD and siege tanks will not only get you 0 DPS from the stalkers, but they will melt extremely quickly. Get only as many as you need!
Engagement:
+ Show Spoiler +
Around the time your 2nd/3rd immortal is in production, you will begin to see the Terran move out. Retreat your stalker and try to shadow the army’s positioning without losing your observer. Continue to warp in zealots/sentries, and position your immortals behind the zealot/sentry force, but in front of your stalkers.
The biggest thing here is the engagement. If things went perfectly, all of these would happen.
i) Pop guardian shield
ii) Forcefield Marines to prevent retreat
iii) Engage tanks while unsieged
iv) Focus fire all immortals/stalkers on tanks
v) Warp in stalkers after tanks are cleaned up
vi) Win
Unfortunately, not all of us can do execute this with perfect timing and micro. Instead, many of us will make an utter mess of this engagement, and barely come through. Therefore, let’s focus on what you NEED to do, or you will almost certainly lose.
i) Pop Guardian Shield:
Your zealots need to live as long as possible. Tank splash will hit the marines too.
iv) Focus fire immortals on tanks:
Tanks and Immortals are high-priority targets for both you and your opponent. As such, they will be the first to die in the engagement. Marines / banshees will target down your immortals, so make sure each immortal shot is not wasted. If tanks are left and your immortals are gone, you’re in a bad position.
v) Clean up Banshees with additional Stalker Warp-in
We’ve all had that one warp-in we wish we could have back. You need to deal with the banshees as soon as you can – don’t be dumb and make more zealot/sentry.
THINGS TO NOTE:
--- If you see SCV’s pulled, your forcefields are even more important. Be prepared to cut them off from the ball to deal with them separately (without producing terran-favored forcefields), and forcefield on top of a tank to prevent repair.
--- Do not be afraid to pull your own probes if it means breaking the contain. Yes, your economy will take a dump, but you have Two Nexus’ and you have chronoboost. You are still in a good position.
--- Do not overreact to the banshees. Minimize banshee harass with as few stalkers as possible.
--- If you can execute a flank, and engage in a favorable position where the tanks are relatively unprotected, you can crush this attack very easily. On certain maps (Shattered temple, Xelnaga) , low-ground zealot warp-ins from pylons in your main can be used to backstab tanks if the marines are out of position.
--- If you are very confident in your micro and unit control, many advanced players will attempt to pick off units as the push approaches (forcing multiple siege/unsieges, and buying additional time). This is an advanced tactic that can be highly successful in the hands of a skilled player, but you need to be extremely careful to not lose precious units.
The biggest thing here is the engagement. If things went perfectly, all of these would happen.
i) Pop guardian shield
ii) Forcefield Marines to prevent retreat
iii) Engage tanks while unsieged
iv) Focus fire all immortals/stalkers on tanks
v) Warp in stalkers after tanks are cleaned up
vi) Win
Unfortunately, not all of us can do execute this with perfect timing and micro. Instead, many of us will make an utter mess of this engagement, and barely come through. Therefore, let’s focus on what you NEED to do, or you will almost certainly lose.
i) Pop Guardian Shield:
Your zealots need to live as long as possible. Tank splash will hit the marines too.
iv) Focus fire immortals on tanks:
Tanks and Immortals are high-priority targets for both you and your opponent. As such, they will be the first to die in the engagement. Marines / banshees will target down your immortals, so make sure each immortal shot is not wasted. If tanks are left and your immortals are gone, you’re in a bad position.
v) Clean up Banshees with additional Stalker Warp-in
We’ve all had that one warp-in we wish we could have back. You need to deal with the banshees as soon as you can – don’t be dumb and make more zealot/sentry.
THINGS TO NOTE:
--- If you see SCV’s pulled, your forcefields are even more important. Be prepared to cut them off from the ball to deal with them separately (without producing terran-favored forcefields), and forcefield on top of a tank to prevent repair.
--- Do not be afraid to pull your own probes if it means breaking the contain. Yes, your economy will take a dump, but you have Two Nexus’ and you have chronoboost. You are still in a good position.
--- Do not overreact to the banshees. Minimize banshee harass with as few stalkers as possible.
--- If you can execute a flank, and engage in a favorable position where the tanks are relatively unprotected, you can crush this attack very easily. On certain maps (Shattered temple, Xelnaga) , low-ground zealot warp-ins from pylons in your main can be used to backstab tanks if the marines are out of position.
--- If you are very confident in your micro and unit control, many advanced players will attempt to pick off units as the push approaches (forcing multiple siege/unsieges, and buying additional time). This is an advanced tactic that can be highly successful in the hands of a skilled player, but you need to be extremely careful to not lose precious units.
Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://drop.sc/23286
Typhon peaks. The build plays out pretty much exactly how I explain it in the guide.
http://drop.sc/23101
He opens up helion drop which I am completely unprepared for. Nevertheless, comes with a 1-1-1 push later.
http://drop.sc/23102
Try to ignore my bronze-league forcefields here. Standard 1-1-1 with Banshee opening.
Please provide me with replays! I am nowhere near perfect in holding this build off and would love to have some better reps.
Alternative Methods:
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is a list of some potential builds that can have success against the 1-1-1.
Key word here is CAN, I do not recommend them as they are not entirely safe.
- Phoenix Opening / forcing early PDD (very risky if hit by two base timing attack and difficult to execute)
Opening Phoenix vs a Terran who opens Banshee is a build order advantage, but does not always play out well. Though they shut down the Raven / Banshee part of the composition, lifting tanks isn't easy with a large number of marines as support. MC used this opening vs Thorzain at MLG, who simply switched to vikings and continued his push for the win. Also, opening Stargate is somewhat risky as well. If you don't do enough damage, you will die to any kind of 2 base timing with MMG.
- Fast colossus (non 1-base)
I've seen this work only in some occasions. In most cases, the combination of banshees + target firing from siege tanks is overwhelming. If you lose your colossus, you will lose the game. You will have very little gateway support. This is a strategy that is quite difficult to pull off. Without thermal lance, there is almost no good way to engage marines with sieged tanks and banshees for support. The beauty of a heavy zealot/sentry/immortal composition is that Tanks aren't particularly good against any of them.
- Blink stalker openings
This can be a dangerous opening vs Terrans who are reliant on marine defense, and allows for mid map engagements to pick off units before they reach your base. However, this is more of an opener that you do without much scouting, and therefore has its own risks. Additionally, an early twilight will delay your Robo, making you very weak to cloaked banshees.
Key word here is CAN, I do not recommend them as they are not entirely safe.
- Phoenix Opening / forcing early PDD (very risky if hit by two base timing attack and difficult to execute)
Opening Phoenix vs a Terran who opens Banshee is a build order advantage, but does not always play out well. Though they shut down the Raven / Banshee part of the composition, lifting tanks isn't easy with a large number of marines as support. MC used this opening vs Thorzain at MLG, who simply switched to vikings and continued his push for the win. Also, opening Stargate is somewhat risky as well. If you don't do enough damage, you will die to any kind of 2 base timing with MMG.
- Fast colossus (non 1-base)
I've seen this work only in some occasions. In most cases, the combination of banshees + target firing from siege tanks is overwhelming. If you lose your colossus, you will lose the game. You will have very little gateway support. This is a strategy that is quite difficult to pull off. Without thermal lance, there is almost no good way to engage marines with sieged tanks and banshees for support. The beauty of a heavy zealot/sentry/immortal composition is that Tanks aren't particularly good against any of them.
- Blink stalker openings
This can be a dangerous opening vs Terrans who are reliant on marine defense, and allows for mid map engagements to pick off units before they reach your base. However, this is more of an opener that you do without much scouting, and therefore has its own risks. Additionally, an early twilight will delay your Robo, making you very weak to cloaked banshees.
Good Critique:
+ Show Spoiler +
I will be updating this section with critique that I find to be valid and will attempt to answer them to the best of my ability. If you have a question, please feel free to post in the thread, but I also suggest you peruse this section to see if it has been addressed.
On August 03 2011 10:30 QTIP. wrote:
Hi thank you for the critique.
In my guide I explain that neither of these builds are optimal against a 2 rax. Instead, I suggest the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates as a stronger build in not only crushing 2 Rax, but putting on pressure afterwards. If they show you a tech lab, you should be suspicious. You should not just assume that you have correct information and return your probe. Per my guide, I mention that it is extremely important to scout multiple times to get as much information as possible.
You should be thinking: Was he actually planning on building that? Am I lucky to see that? Or did he let me see that on purpose? (Playing Boxer of all people.... -_-)
Example: You see the tech lab before the marine forces you out. There is no way to know for sure if its legit now that the marine is out. However, you can do your best to poke at the ramp multiple times to see if there is are any gas units at the ramp at a later time. If he built a tech lab but you see a healthy # of marines on your second poke -- you know that the tech lab was a fake out. (He actually built a tech lab to make more marines?)
If you can't verify if its a 1-1-1 / 2 Rax, I still suggest opening 1 Gate - Robo - FE. Again, its your call to make, you have to play the probabilities based on the information you have.
If you watch Incontrol vs Boxer from MLG Anaheim, its clear that Incontrol was tricked into thinking that he could opt for the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates play when he saw the tech lab. However, its clear that his build could not hold the 1-1-1. That's why, in the situation where you are not sure what is coming, I suggest the 1 Gate - Robo - FE. Incontrol would have been in a much better position if he had opted for this build over the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates build.
Also, on larger maps where scouting is more difficult when you scout a player last, there is definitely some luck involved. However, your criticism is not specific to my guide. This "random" factor of scouting your opponent last and having your probe killed by a marine is a factor you have to take into account when playing the game. Do I suggest that you should still assume a 1-1-1 if your probe dies to the first marine because you scout him last? No.
I simply suggest that you persistently scout with your probe, and poke at the ramp to get as much information as possible. There is nothing you can do about something that is out of your control.
Hi thank you for the critique.
In my guide I explain that neither of these builds are optimal against a 2 rax. Instead, I suggest the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates as a stronger build in not only crushing 2 Rax, but putting on pressure afterwards. If they show you a tech lab, you should be suspicious. You should not just assume that you have correct information and return your probe. Per my guide, I mention that it is extremely important to scout multiple times to get as much information as possible.
You should be thinking: Was he actually planning on building that? Am I lucky to see that? Or did he let me see that on purpose? (Playing Boxer of all people.... -_-)
Example: You see the tech lab before the marine forces you out. There is no way to know for sure if its legit now that the marine is out. However, you can do your best to poke at the ramp multiple times to see if there is are any gas units at the ramp at a later time. If he built a tech lab but you see a healthy # of marines on your second poke -- you know that the tech lab was a fake out. (He actually built a tech lab to make more marines?)
If you can't verify if its a 1-1-1 / 2 Rax, I still suggest opening 1 Gate - Robo - FE. Again, its your call to make, you have to play the probabilities based on the information you have.
If you watch Incontrol vs Boxer from MLG Anaheim, its clear that Incontrol was tricked into thinking that he could opt for the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates play when he saw the tech lab. However, its clear that his build could not hold the 1-1-1. That's why, in the situation where you are not sure what is coming, I suggest the 1 Gate - Robo - FE. Incontrol would have been in a much better position if he had opted for this build over the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates build.
Also, on larger maps where scouting is more difficult when you scout a player last, there is definitely some luck involved. However, your criticism is not specific to my guide. This "random" factor of scouting your opponent last and having your probe killed by a marine is a factor you have to take into account when playing the game. Do I suggest that you should still assume a 1-1-1 if your probe dies to the first marine because you scout him last? No.
I simply suggest that you persistently scout with your probe, and poke at the ramp to get as much information as possible. There is nothing you can do about something that is out of your control.
My guide is nowhere near perfect, but I do believe the build I suggest is the most solid in terms of scouting / economy / unit composition in dealing with the 1-1-1.
On August 08 2011 13:51 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Very nice guide! Thanks for making
I was a bit confused about seeing all this about the Terran 111 all-in build recently, wondering what it was about, but apparently it just means the marine/raven/banshee/tank all-in and its variations.
I agree with this guide, 1 gate robo and 1 gate expo robo are really good builds, especially since it deals well with these 111 all-ins (and is both economical, flexible, and helps you learn to scout, all good for learning players). SlayerS Cella was giving a protoss some lessons on how to defend against 111 all-ins and he said the 1 gate robo was the best.
Very nice guide! Thanks for making
I was a bit confused about seeing all this about the Terran 111 all-in build recently, wondering what it was about, but apparently it just means the marine/raven/banshee/tank all-in and its variations.
I agree with this guide, 1 gate robo and 1 gate expo robo are really good builds, especially since it deals well with these 111 all-ins (and is both economical, flexible, and helps you learn to scout, all good for learning players). SlayerS Cella was giving a protoss some lessons on how to defend against 111 all-ins and he said the 1 gate robo was the best.
Any feedback, better/pro replays would all be very appreciated.
I hope this can be a resource for some of you.
Thanks to EmilA, Alej, mazqo (and others) for providing relevant information.
Additional discussion on this topic can be found here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589
Starcraft2France Translation:
http://www.starcraft2france.com/Se-defendre-contre-le-1-1-1-en-PvT.8639.0.html
Starcraft2Japan Translation:
http://starcraft2.jpcommunity.com/sc2/modules/xhnewbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2433&post_id=4846#forumpost4846
