a new tournament with 16 of the best players throughout europe was announced. The tourney will last one month, starting this monday. Announcement news in German here, the cup page location is Razer-Domination.com. You can find all important information including playersheets there.
wow.... sickkkkkk line up, this is truely europe's best. Looking at group1 I was like "oh no wtf they put all my favourite players in the same group", but then I looked at the others and thought "damn hes awesome too, so is he, and he.." sweet
Tbh I was expecting a larger prize pool upon seeing the name razer, but this is still not bad, especially if this thing is gonna happen more often.
jesus the amount of hours that day9 talks about starcraft.... must be over 9000 by now. If he's not gonna be able to get some sort of job that properly pays out of this I'll be hugely disappointed.
I really hope Razer is not abusing Day's love for StarCraft and are actually paying him for his awesome job. I guess the chances of that are low though seeing as the prize money if a bit .. small. I guess they're not really taking the beta as seriously as TSL1 for example.
Any ways hoping for some good games, at least the players point towards that being exactly the case.
Wow this is awesome news! Seriously the choice of players is awesome, the fact that Day streams this is awesome and the fact that Razer sponsors this is awesome!
On April 11 2010 07:01 Puosu wrote: I really hope Razer is not abusing Day's love for StarCraft and are actually paying him for his awesome job. I guess the chances of that are low though seeing as the prize money if a bit .. small. I guess they're not really taking the beta as seriously as TSL1 for example.
Any ways hoping for some good games, at least the players point towards that being exactly the case.
He's not getting paid for any other tournaments he casts so I wouldnt exactly call that "abusing"
first time major sponsor in Starcraft 2 beta. quite important in my opinion.
Not trying to downgrade this tour or Razer but there were already tournaments for SC2beta with much larger prize. But yeah, it's greaaaat that Razer jumped on SC2beta tour-wagon! Big news, indeed.
I really appreciate all the things that Day[9] has done for the starcraft community. I think it's sad if he doesn't get paid for commentating in these bigger tournaments. Does anyone know if I can donate money to him somehow?
well it was the choice of organizers to make it last a month. If it was a one day even the prize size would look less odd. But who knows maybe it turn into a regular thing with prize money growing largely slowly=))
On April 11 2010 11:17 Xiphiasar wrote: Prize money is almost shameful. They don't even match half of Hello-Goodbye's community raised $1100+. 400 euro = $540
I don't quite get your logic.... Putting up over $500 is still pretty good. Seems like everybody wins imo. Players, fans, and razer gets publicity.
On April 11 2010 09:02 PerQ wrote: I really appreciate all the things that Day[9] has done for the starcraft community. I think it's sad if he doesn't get paid for commentating in these bigger tournaments. Does anyone know if I can donate money to him somehow?
Really excited about this tournament! ^^
You actually can check the Day 9 daily thread I think it should be in there or pm him ^^.
On April 11 2010 07:01 Puosu wrote: I really hope Razer is not abusing Day's love for StarCraft and are actually paying him for his awesome job. I guess the chances of that are low though seeing as the prize money if a bit .. small. I guess they're not really taking the beta as seriously as TSL1 for example.
Any ways hoping for some good games, at least the players point towards that being exactly the case.
He's not getting paid for any other tournaments he casts so I wouldnt exactly call that "abusing"
well he should be getting paid imo. hes more important than the players because he attracts viewers more than anyone and isnt that what its all about?
first time major sponsor in Starcraft 2 beta. quite important in my opinion.
Not trying to downgrade this tour or Razer but there were already tournaments for SC2beta with much larger prize. But yeah, it's greaaaat that Razer jumped on SC2beta tour-wagon! Big news, indeed.
It's not about the prize money, it's about the name. ESL is a TV station that broadcasts games (comparable to OGN or MBC in Korea), Hello Goodbye is a community driven tournament, and Zotac cups are sponsored by gfx card company. Razer is a huge step for SC2.
Once Gillette, Adidas,Coca Cola and similar ( not PC oriented company's) get into the sponsor list, then you could start calling it esports. Razer is a on a good step to that objective.
hmm, interesting. Looks like only some of the group matches will be shoutcasted, but i guess i can live with that. Is there any drug we can give day9 so he just constantly comments sc2 24/7?^^
On April 11 2010 07:01 Puosu wrote: I really hope Razer is not abusing Day's love for StarCraft and are actually paying him for his awesome job. I guess the chances of that are low though seeing as the prize money if a bit .. small. I guess they're not really taking the beta as seriously as TSL1 for example.
Any ways hoping for some good games, at least the players point towards that being exactly the case.
He's not getting paid for any other tournaments he casts so I wouldnt exactly call that "abusing"
well he should be getting paid imo. hes more important than the players because he attracts viewers more than anyone and isnt that what its all about?
jesus the amount of hours that day9 talks about starcraft.... must be over 9000 by now. If he's not gonna be able to get some sort of job that properly pays out of this I'll be hugely disappointed.
As you can see it's not like I disagree with you about that... I was just saying that abuse is a bit of a strong word
I really hope White-Ra finishes first in group C. The groups were probably made at random but couldn't they have built a safety that whenever there are 2 people from the same country already in a group it isn't possible to have more? One group with 3 Swedes is a bit much for something like this don't you think?
On April 11 2010 19:56 MorroW wrote: well he should be getting paid imo. hes more important than the players because he attracts viewers more than anyone and isnt that what its all about?
100%.
I don't care about watching you chobs butcher strategies. I care about listening to day9's sweet soothing voice.
On April 11 2010 21:48 Golden Ghost wrote: I really hope White-Ra finishes first in group C. The groups were probably made at random but couldn't they have built a safety that whenever there are 2 people from the same country already in a group it isn't possible to have more? One group with 3 Swedes is a bit much for something like this don't you think?
On April 11 2010 11:17 Xiphiasar wrote: Prize money is almost shameful. They don't even match half of Hello-Goodbye's community raised $1100+. 400 euro = $540
I don't quite get your logic.... Putting up over $500 is still pretty good. Seems like everybody wins imo. Players, fans, and razer gets publicity.
My logic is that a big company like Razer could easily put up more, but you are correct. Everybody wins and I'm complaining too much.
SC2 tournaments don't need to have huge prize pools at every tournament. I mean hell, there are like a million SC2 tournaments already and its still in beta.
The sheer amount of time Day9 spends commentating SC blows my mind. I have no idea hows hes doing this much commentating AND grad school.
jesus the amount of hours that day9 talks about starcraft.... must be over 9000 by now. If he's not gonna be able to get some sort of job that properly pays out of this I'll be hugely disappointed.
I also hope he gets some paying job out of this but I think he just does it for fun. I'm sure if he wanted a real job in e-sports he'd clean up a little (shower and shave) before casting something important to show that he gives a crap.
I also hope he gets some paying job out of this but I think he just does it for fun. I'm sure if he wanted a real job in e-sports he'd clean up a little (shower and shave) before casting something important to show that he gives a crap.
Considering this isn't some kind of nations cup, so it shouldn't be balanced by nationality should it? Some kind of seeding based on skill would seem optimal.
jesus the amount of hours that day9 talks about starcraft.... must be over 9000 by now. If he's not gonna be able to get some sort of job that properly pays out of this I'll be hugely disappointed.
I also hope he gets some paying job out of this but I think he just does it for fun. I'm sure if he wanted a real job in e-sports he'd clean up a little (shower and shave) before casting something important to show that he gives a crap.
Because we all know a groomed beard improves the quality of a cast. I don't think Day9 could be any more passionate about castign Starcraft matches. The messy hair and tea drinking is almost part of his act. It gives the stream a casual ambiance.
I'm sure that if Day9 would take time to look nice if he had to do paid professional casting on a stage. As long as it's not paid, it's a hobby and you do what you think is best.
On April 13 2010 04:52 DeMusliM wrote: actually i think mass roachs are definetely needed vs tanks/thors :S
Roach would of been fine as well. Baneling was a waste imo. He broke the rocks to his 3rd and could of easily flanked. Then there was a time he FG'ed with his infestors and didn't move in. Face palm situation.
On April 14 2010 06:17 FrozenArbiter wrote: Ack, I just watched the replay of the 2nd game - 180 supply me vs 140 supply zerg and I lose the battle haha =[
I sieged my tanks way too close to the zerg, dimaga's counter attack made me too impatient
Before watching the replay I thought I just had no chance either game - I dunno if I should be happy or annoyed.
On April 11 2010 07:01 Puosu wrote: I really hope Razer is not abusing Day's love for StarCraft and are actually paying him for his awesome job. I guess the chances of that are low though seeing as the prize money if a bit .. small. I guess they're not really taking the beta as seriously as TSL1 for example.
Any ways hoping for some good games, at least the players point towards that being exactly the case.
Everyone loves to watch Day do casts, he's got to be the favorite SC2 caster by far nowadays, but I do feel bad for him. I just read he's doing the EG Liquid clan war this saturday, he always does the zotac cup on saturadys too, and MLG Showmatch's, he does his streams 5 days a week, is a grad student with a job, has a girlfriend, and streams so many other things. I hope people do make it worth his while to help out because he really is such a big figure in our community and it'd suck if we were the reason he's overworked.
On April 14 2010 06:17 FrozenArbiter wrote: Ack, I just watched the replay of the 2nd game - 180 supply me vs 140 supply zerg and I lose the battle haha =[
I sieged my tanks way too close to the zerg, dimaga's counter attack made me too impatient
Before watching the replay I thought I just had no chance either game - I dunno if I should be happy or annoyed.
Game on Scrap station was just lost because of a bad angle. He had huge concave with a flank in the back. Also you ran your entire bio army into his frontlines to get hit by siege tank aoe.
Game on Kulas ravine was lost cause you didnt target the infestors. They where far away behind units i know, but they need to die if you have a thor heavy army. Else he will just pick 2 thors, use Cannons on two other thors, then friendly fire the thors after battle is over, annoying as fuck I know =[
I know, I always target infestors - the problem was, I killed 2 infestors right at the start, then I had nothing left that could reach the two in the back =/
And that's what I meant by being too impatient - I should have sieged my tanks in the back, ran my bio army up, then retreatead, then attacked again once he pulls back.
Just watched the replay, and yeah, a slow push could have worked better in the SS match. When your tanks started to siege, the roaches/hydras were already close hitting everything.
You just mentioned a better way of dealing with that situation heh.
Sorry guys, I requested to get added as a separate caster (apart from glhf.tv) so I will be able to cast even when thegunrun is in class or otherwise occupied, just on a different page. I fully well realize I'm no day[9] by far but some of you guys have probably heard me cocast with thegunrun, I'll do my best to make sure there's an English stream, whether it's glhf.tv or when thegunrun isn't around h2ktv.com
I couldn't earlier because only thegunrun's name was listed.
On April 14 2010 07:18 Martijn wrote: Sorry guys, I requested to get added as a separate caster (apart from glhf.tv) so I will be able to cast even when thegunrun is in class or otherwise occupied, just on a different page. I fully well realize I'm no day[9] by far but some of you guys have probably heard me cocast with thegunrun, I'll do my best to make sure there's an English stream, whether it's glhf.tv or when thegunrun isn't around h2ktv.com
I couldn't earlier because only thegunrun's name was listed.
Thats great news, we were really missing english commentary today :-/ just not the same without
now we have something to look forward to, thank you looking forward to the commentaries
Jinro vs. HasuObs will be streamed with English commentary by myself on http://www.h2ktv.com. Click the live link and pick your poison.
If one of the options, say the flash player for example, lags for you, feel free to try a different player. h2ktv offers several methods of watching the stream so hopefully you can find one that's smooth for you.
We'll be live 5ish minutes before the game, give or take. Or as I like to call it 1 pm EST-GamerTime ;p Hope you guys enjoy and spread the word.
On April 15 2010 01:33 Martijn wrote: Jinro vs. HasuObs will be streamed with English commentary by myself on http://www.h2ktv.com. Click the live link and pick your poison.
If one of the options, say the flash player for example, lags for you, feel free to try a different player. h2ktv offers several methods of watching the stream so hopefully you can find one that's smooth for you.
We'll be live 5ish minutes before the game, give or take. Or as I like to call it 1 pm EST-GamerTime ;p Hope you guys enjoy and spread the word.
That's so awesome man, having all those streams. Thank you so much!
On April 15 2010 01:33 Martijn wrote: Jinro vs. HasuObs will be streamed with English commentary by myself on http://www.h2ktv.com. Click the live link and pick your poison.
If one of the options, say the flash player for example, lags for you, feel free to try a different player. h2ktv offers several methods of watching the stream so hopefully you can find one that's smooth for you.
We'll be live 5ish minutes before the game, give or take. Or as I like to call it 1 pm EST-GamerTime ;p Hope you guys enjoy and spread the word.
That's so awesome man, having all those streams. Thank you so much!
On April 15 2010 02:34 4Servy wrote: Thors are the most useless unit ever vs protoss and I dont know why he is so obsessed with making them.
Because if you open tank you die instantly to void rays, and if you open bio you die to anything because bio is fucking useless now?
Because if the P opens 4 warp-gate sentry/zealot, Thor auto-wins the game?
Because it's worked well vs almost everyone I've played in ladder (of course, almost none of them make void rays, I fucking hate void rays and have no idea how to play vs them)?
Because they 2 shot stalkers, and stalkers with blink ruin mech otherwise?
I have no idea, I haven't seen almost any Ps use void rays, but the ones that do are annoying as hell. I knew hasuobs had practiced this strategy (looked at his gamelist), but wtf.
If I open bio and he isn't doing this, I'll just die to 4 warp gate push, or at the very least get locked inside my main from all the force fields.
Damn it missed this. Can these games be put up on the calendar? Or create a second SC2 calendar below the current one on the site? Hell I'd volunteer to input the information if it came to that.
On April 15 2010 02:55 HolydaKing wrote: jinro is really slumping =[ let's hope he's back in shape vs EG!
slumping? Losing to the best zerg on the planet and probably 3rd best euro protoss is slumping? oh right i forgot he also lost to the best terran>< what a nublet!
Well, I wouldn't call it a slump as much as still not having figured out how to play after the patch for TvP, and being very un-even TvT after the counter to 1 rax cc was discovered. I think I played fine vs Dimaga and should have won game 2.
Hasuobs played really good ;<
On April 15 2010 02:55 SmoKim wrote: WoW, i was 100% sure that jinro would win that game such a shame, but still awesome match, no base victory, didn't see that comming
BIG shout for http://www.h2ktv.com/live/ best quality stream i have yet to see in SC2 tournament, 100% lag free(For me) and high quality, loved it <3
I average 1 base-trade/day I think ;(
If I feel behind - base race gogo !! (slightly exaggerated)
you'll get there Jon. It's silly to assume that SC2 tournaments are taht much different from poker. When everyone is this good you do need a wee bit of luck on your side. Besides, you're the only man to stop lucifron in a tournament that gotta account for something.
I changed it from CET to CEST, the difference is 1 hour, I'm not sure which is the proper one, http://razer.cups.gamesports.net/ shows all the times listed as CEST
Thursday, Apr 15 6:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00) DeMusliM vs DIMAGA Thursday, Apr 15 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) DeMusliM vs HasuObs
How can I see the stream schedule for the weeks matches? If theres a match (like right now), do I have to click through all streams at the site to find the right one (or read in this thread)?
i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
On April 16 2010 04:31 Squallcloud wrote: Wow just tuned in and i saw the zerg gg when he had more than half the map what happened?
Dimaga rolled into to harass an expo with like 5-7 broodlords, which turned out to be a big mistake. Demu had a fleet of vikings which killed most of the bls. Bls too slow to escape!
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
Dimaga seems to be a bit too aggressive for his own good when he has an economic lead. Keeping his army near his third, so he could easily defend all of his bases would probably have been the better strategy. Instead he extended his front to the terran's 'third' with a line of spine crawlers, which ended up being taken out separately since T forced the Z's army to defend the narrow-path.
Oh yeah, not to mention losing 3-5 broodlords to vikings for free, due to being over-aggressive.
On April 16 2010 04:31 Squallcloud wrote: Wow just tuned in and i saw the zerg gg when he had more than half the map what happened?
Pushed with Broodlords to DeMu's natural to kill some scv's maybe the PF and didn't see DeMu had about 8-10 vikings. Broodlords were caught out of position and lost 4 out of the 6. After that DeMu juked Dimaga pretty bad breaking the rocks to the middle path of Scrap Station and got him out of position. Killed another Broodlord moving across the map with vikings, backed out and pushed towards middle and killed about 5-6 spine crawlers without any units around. At that point he had about 10-12 vikings and a pretty big MMM army pushed towards Dimagas third and won it pretty easily. Very good play.
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
YES? you said it yourself, 4 bases vs 2 bases? Besides considering how much Demu lost before that(including his expo) they should've been even. Where's your crazy OP zerg production values?
The games shouldnt hang in the balance because of 6 units. Especially since Demu encorporated massive amounts of vikings to counter them. Building this many air to air units should set your ground force back, not make it way superior to ur opponent.
Next Game up in about 20 minutes, DeMusliMs second one for tonight vs. HasuObs. Streamer will be the same like before: Day[9], GameSports, Millenium, GLHF and I hope I didn't forget any :D
Scrap station just seems like a hard map for ZvT. Short air distance forces zerg to invest more in anti air (2 spore crawlers and a 2nd queen up before expansion). The destructible rocks path gives Z headaches when trying to defend his third and beyond.
But those excuses aside, the game could have gone a lot differently if Dimaga was more patient and didn't try to harass the T's natural with his BLs.
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
YES? you said it yourself, 4 bases vs 2 bases? Besides considering how much Demu lost before that(including his expo) they should've been even. Where's your crazy OP zerg production values?
The games shouldnt hang in the balance because of 6 units. Especially since Demu encorporated massive amounts of vikings to counter them. Building this many air to air units should set your ground force back, not make it way superior to ur opponent.
Please count how many minerals-gaz Dimaga had to waste to make those brood lords. Spire-greater spire - mutalisks - corruptors - broodlords. And now think how many minerals his 3 and 4 bases managed to earn (considering money on it's building and building of drones, queens, gazes)
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
YES? you said it yourself, 4 bases vs 2 bases? Besides considering how much Demu lost before that(including his expo) they should've been even. Where's your crazy OP zerg production values?
The games shouldnt hang in the balance because of 6 units. Especially since Demu encorporated massive amounts of vikings to counter them. Building this many air to air units should set your ground force back, not make it way superior to ur opponent.
When the 6 units in question are Broodlords, of course the game will hang in the balance.
He suicided 1800 minerals, 1500 gas and 24 supply worth of units in what was, prior to that, a fairly even game. None of the races could throw away that kind of unit investment in a close game and then expect to win a huge fight immediately afterwards.
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
YES? you said it yourself, 4 bases vs 2 bases? Besides considering how much Demu lost before that(including his expo) they should've been even. Where's your crazy OP zerg production values?
The games shouldnt hang in the balance because of 6 units. Especially since Demu encorporated massive amounts of vikings to counter them. Building this many air to air units should set your ground force back, not make it way superior to ur opponent.
When the 6 units in question are Broodlords, of course the game will hang in the balance.
He suicided 1800 minerals, 1500 gas and 24 supply worth of units in what was, prior to that, a fairly even game. None of the races could throw away that kind of unit investment in a close game and then expect to win a huge fight immediately afterwards.
so vikings are free then?:O and building ur starport this early while failing to do any dmg is free too? u and strelok only see what u want to see.
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
YES? you said it yourself, 4 bases vs 2 bases? Besides considering how much Demu lost before that(including his expo) they should've been even. Where's your crazy OP zerg production values?
The games shouldnt hang in the balance because of 6 units. Especially since Demu encorporated massive amounts of vikings to counter them. Building this many air to air units should set your ground force back, not make it way superior to ur opponent.
When the 6 units in question are Broodlords, of course the game will hang in the balance.
He suicided 1800 minerals, 1500 gas and 24 supply worth of units in what was, prior to that, a fairly even game. None of the races could throw away that kind of unit investment in a close game and then expect to win a huge fight immediately afterwards.
so vikings are free then?:O
whats your point? broodlords were important and they would definatelly shift the outcome of final battle.
On April 16 2010 04:32 Sfydjklm wrote: i understand that when dimaga flashed those corruptors he shoulda counter attacked right away but its ridiculous how hard it is on the zerg to make even the slightest mistake and how unpunished terrans are by anything that happens(i.e. losing expo and a ton of army game 1; making a 7 gas 10 starport)
Slightest mistake is what? Forgetting hydra upgrade, attacking fortress when having 4 vs 2 bases, loosing 6 blood lords for nothing?
YES? you said it yourself, 4 bases vs 2 bases? Besides considering how much Demu lost before that(including his expo) they should've been even. Where's your crazy OP zerg production values?
The games shouldnt hang in the balance because of 6 units. Especially since Demu encorporated massive amounts of vikings to counter them. Building this many air to air units should set your ground force back, not make it way superior to ur opponent.
When the 6 units in question are Broodlords, of course the game will hang in the balance.
He suicided 1800 minerals, 1500 gas and 24 supply worth of units in what was, prior to that, a fairly even game. None of the races could throw away that kind of unit investment in a close game and then expect to win a huge fight immediately afterwards.
so vikings are free then?:O
whats your pojnt? broodlords were important and they would definatelly shift the outcome of final battle.
my point is that there are no setbacks for terran in doing anything they please while any slightest error on zerg's part costs him the game. logically one would think Demu's insane build in the second game could at least somewhat match up with the setback zerg experiences once he fails to finish the terran with dimaga break. But. laik.. No.
10vikings are cheaper than 6broodlords, and those 10 vikings weren't lost doing little to no damage, also they forced dimaga to spend even more getting corruptors to protect the remaining broodlords, also he sent his army of hydras to the edge of the high ground in attempt to save the BLs and lost a ton of them to MMM while doing no damage to the terran's force.
On April 16 2010 05:18 Irrelevant wrote: they were pretty massive errors in this case
10vikings are cheaper than 6broodlords, and those 10 vikings weren't lost doing little to no damage, also they forced dimaga to spend even more getting corruptors to protect the remaining broodlords, also he sent his army of hydras to the edge of the high ground in attempt to save the BLs and lost a ton of them to MMM while doing no damage to the terran's force.
you're saying those hydras would make a difference?^^ and as i mentioned above dont forget that Demu's build one would think is extremely damaging to terran's economy. Alas, No.
@h0munkulus: GameSports.de (German), Millenium (French) and Goodgame.ru (Russian) will stream are streaming the game. And hopefully ofc Day[9] in English when Livestream recovers.
thx for info. god if there is some streaming solution that is better than lifestream day9 should change. even if it costs more im sure the comm will be happily donate some money if it's a big improvement.
I concur. Not that my opinion on the matter means much. But I think of all the times I've casted on jtv I've had the site actually give me problems twice?
On April 16 2010 05:23 Chucky wrote: @h0munkulus: GameSports.de (German), Millenium (French) and Goodgame.ru (Russian) will stream are streaming the game. And hopefully ofc Day[9] in English when Livestream recovers.
hey guys, sorry to get you all pumped up, but livestream isn't functioning properly today. I'm literally on the phone w/ the tech people as we speak. They're seriously concerned that I can't connect so that's "sorta" cool. Either way, I'm pissed as fuck that livestream crapped out on me.
Sfydjklm, I honestly can't believe you don't think suiciding 2000 minerals worth of units before a big fight is a big deal. Next time you're playing a Zerg mirror against a similarly skilled player try killing off 30 supply of your own army before a battle and tell me how it goes.
On April 16 2010 05:30 Day[9] wrote: hey guys, sorry to get you all pumped up, but livestream isn't functioning properly today. I'm literally on the phone w/ the tech people as we speak. They're seriously concerned that I can't connect so that's "sorta" cool. Either way, I'm pissed as fuck that livestream crapped out on me.
Don't worry about letting anyone down, you haven't. Not your fault but it's great that you have access to some form of personal contact with livestream, hope they fix their shit :>
On April 16 2010 05:18 Irrelevant wrote: they were pretty massive errors in this case
10vikings are cheaper than 6broodlords, and those 10 vikings weren't lost doing little to no damage, also they forced dimaga to spend even more getting corruptors to protect the remaining broodlords, also he sent his army of hydras to the edge of the high ground in attempt to save the BLs and lost a ton of them to MMM while doing no damage to the terran's force.
you're saying those hydras would make a difference?^^ and as i mentioned above dont forget that Demu's build one would think is extremely damaging to terran's economy. Alas, No.
In fairless Sfydjklm, Dimaga did delay his third and a lot economy//units pumping to get fast infestation pit (without infestors), hive, spire, greater spire, and a lot of broodlords. (He still had an amazing economy but that's because dimaga is fucking awesome) Whatever advantage he GAINED from defending the starport-before-depot build was lost when DeM was muling off 2 OC's when Dimaga was rushing to broodlords. 10 Vikings was nothing compared to the what? 8-10 broodlords total made in the game, and the did almost no damage, also all the extra corruptors as mentioned before. Dimaga could have been maxed on hydra roach infestor by the time he was losing all his broodlords. I think it was a suprise move and the banshee harass scouted it.
No saying dimaga was wrong to go broodlords, sure they're great but if they do NO damage at all thats like just making 10 ultras and giving them away for nothing.
Also Demuslims feint was INSANE for vs broodlords which are so slow.
god... why in the world would you expand at another main first instead of natural on LT... hasu needs some serious starcraft basics teaching (basic macro and when and where to expand)...
why's it stupid? demuslim scans, sees no expo, expects that hasu is going all-in 3warp robo or whatever and prepares accordingly when hasu is actually macroing. i will agree that taking the natural of 12 o'clock was a bad idea though, or possibly just unlucky, since i think demuslim only saw the nexus being warped in at the natural and still had no idea of the main at 12 until he actually got there?
On April 16 2010 05:54 rauk wrote: why's it stupid? demuslim scans, sees no expo, expects that hasu is going all-in 3warp robo or whatever and prepares accordingly when hasu is actually macroing. i will agree that taking the natural of 12 o'clock was a bad idea though.
I think you're over analyzing HasuObs play a little. demuslim expanded with 3 bunkers, it's not likely he's going to invest more into static D if he thinks his opponent is doing a robo all in.
Hasu probably just didn't want his expansion getting cliffed even though positionally it was unlikely to happen. Expanding to another main isn't as big a deal as it was in sc, the maps are smaller, the need to transfer the perfect amount of probes is not there, you can warp to your expo if you want etc.
He just played too aggressive and lost. A lot of players still do this
I don't pretend to speak for day9, but he's on the phone with livestream support right now. He's probably rather ticked off with them at the moment, I'm sure he'll let everyone know when he'll be covering the replays as soon as possible.
On April 16 2010 06:03 Martijn wrote: I don't pretend to speak for day9, but he's on the phone with livestream support right now. He's probably rather ticked off with them at the moment, I'm sure he'll let everyone know when he'll be covering the replays as soon as possible.
he mentioned that he had some guy from livestream.com actually watching the stream while he was broadcasting to diagnose the problems. and considering how much traffic that site gets from starcraft I'd say they're eager to solve the problem.
he also said that he was not angry at livestream, that he had been in contact with their support all day yesterday and he said they were really kind and really was trying to help him with his problems.
On April 16 2010 06:08 Julmust wrote: he also said that he was not angry at livestream, that he had been in contact with their support all day yesterday and he said they were really kind and really was trying to help him with his problems.
On April 16 2010 05:30 Day[9] wrote: Either way, I'm pissed as fuck that livestream crapped out on me.
Not that it matters, they're doing their best, he's doing his best. It's a best-effort service.
Hasuobs get what he deserves for not making early zelot and stalker on a 2 player map. Kinda cheese from demuslim tho, but when you know your opponent play really greedy i guess you can do this shit.
It's going to be a busy day today. April 16 19:30 CEST, 1:30pm EDT, Strelok vs Nazgul April 16 20:00 CEST, 2:00pm EDT, DeMusliM vs Jinro April 16 21:00 CEST, 3:00pm EDT, Ret vs Nazgul
I'm pretty sure the matches will overlap. I guess the best option is to cover the first and third game. Unfortunate though, I'd love to cast some TvT, especially these two.
On the other hand Strelok never seems to fail to impress. What do you think we'll see from him? Thor drop play? Banshee harass? Maybe he'll pull out an early Reaper depending on the map? Strelok always seems to play ruthlessly, playing to win and punishing everything mistake. If you don't scout him again and again, you'll have lost in no time. Nazgul on the other hand excels at the opposite, he's been playing by the book and shows us why standard is considered "standard". Namely because in the hands of a strong player, standard becomes monstrous. Playing against him must be like battling quicksand, he replies correctly to your every move and you get caught up in his pace sinking away more and more. He seems to be favoring sentries highly in PvP and PvZ, how would those hold up in PvT though.. Especially with more mech heavy builds lately and T's harassment options that aren't stopped by ramps. Maybe he'll opt to strike first?
If we'd have to describe the match-up in that outrageous Korean terminology, it would have to be.. The Terran Trickster vs The Protoss Bible!
Ret vs Nazgul on the other hand. Ret is considered the best Dutch sc player by many, but how has he been holding up in sc2? Has he been practicing as heavily as some of these other players. He was knocked out in the quarter finals of the Steelseries Bescene Benelux only tournament, Nazgul took revenge for the Dutch crowd by destroying the player that beat Ret in the finals and won the tournament. Can we say that puts the definitive Dutch sc gosu Ret in an underdog position vs Nazgul in sc2? Or will he show us he's on top of the recently rapidly evolving and changing zerg play.
That's how I see the games with my limited game-sense in any case.
we'll see how it goes. nevertheless, nazgul never fails to entertain so i'm happy there are two matches with him this evening. i'm not sure how much motivation ret got to train and belong to the absolute top players in sc2; naz mentioned he might have some kind of rts burn out after korea and as he has not found the passion for sc2 that he got for sc1 yet i'm not sure he has the best chances.
only judged by (recent) performance i would say demuslim >> jinro, but jinro sometimes has really cute builds that might surprise in this match up.
strelok was 2:0'ed by socke in the nations war so tvp might not be his top match up... i'm excited.
noticed that Demuslim did the 4-rax FE in the first game and a cheesy 6rax/refinery in the second, which were strats suggested on this forum, it seems he liked them after all, and they worked :D I think that's how TvP is to be played. Hasuobs didn't counter the FE with colossi in the first game on lt and did a 13 (or 14?) gateway on steppes of war, something protoss will not get away with anymore. I wonder what demuslim thinks now of TvP, if it's still broken or it just needs some minor adjustements.
On April 16 2010 23:58 DeMusliM wrote: it's still broke
Well i like how you played but i understand that doing a 6rax means you didn't have much faith in a standard build working on that map, it's been quite some time without a patch, there should be one pretty soon.
i just don't buy the whole TvP is "broke" thing... it's just the fancy thing to say atm...
which change exactly "broke" TvP? the talk started with patch8 but if you look at the changes i can only accept 2 explanations. TvP was broken since the start or patch6 broke TvP.
and if it was patch6 why did it take 3 weeks for players to realise this and who says it won't be the other way around 3 weeks from now.
i much rather think that small maps favor P in general and it's more a map issue than a race balance issue. some maps (steppes, metal close positions, etc.) just feature ultra-short distances and this causes all kinds of balance issues...
todays matches should be interesting. who will stream today?
i just don't buy the whole TvP is "broke" thing... it's just the fancy thing to say atm...
which change exactly "broke" TvP? the talk started with patch8 but if you look at the changes i can only accept 2 explanations. TvP was broken since the start or patch6 broke TvP.
and if it was patch6 why did it take 3 weeks for players to realise this and who says it won't be the other way around 3 weeks from now.
i much rather think that small maps favor P in general and it's more a map issue than a race balance issue. some maps (steppes, metal close positions, etc.) just feature ultra-short distances and this causes all kinds of balance issues...
todays matches should be interesting. who will stream today?
That's actually just a complete list of all the allowed streamers.
Regardless, we'll be doing our best to cast Strelok vs Nazgul and Ret vs Nazgul today. We'll do some Craftcup coverage surrounding those matches depending on what's available match wise. Oh, over at http://www.glhf.tv of course.
i just don't buy the whole TvP is "broke" thing... it's just the fancy thing to say atm...
which change exactly "broke" TvP? the talk started with patch8 but if you look at the changes i can only accept 2 explanations. TvP was broken since the start or patch6 broke TvP.
and if it was patch6 why did it take 3 weeks for players to realise this and who says it won't be the other way around 3 weeks from now.
i much rather think that small maps favor P in general and it's more a map issue than a race balance issue. some maps (steppes, metal close positions, etc.) just feature ultra-short distances and this causes all kinds of balance issues...
todays matches should be interesting. who will stream today?
didn't wanna play, asked for PP, or defwin for jinro (me winning or losing wouldn't change the results of the group at all) and been in and out of hospital past week
so i played random and lost 1-2 - have an important match coming up vs lucifron soon so didn't wanna play tvt and disclose any strats - and jinro didn't want to play offrace either. - Don't really mind - but don't take those games seriously .
Gosucup, he's playing him in the semis. I'd have been fine with forfeit, but didn't wanna off-race cause I normally play very badly in tournaments. So I don't want to "waste" a tournament game experience, when I can use it to improve my nerves (or whatever it is exactly, all I know is I play a lot worse whenever a game is "real", not as bad as I once did but still not as good as I could).
Total time for the series was probably less than 30 minutes so not exactly super serious games as Demu said.
On April 17 2010 03:36 DeMusliM wrote: didn't wanna play, asked for PP, or defwin for jinro (me winning or losing wouldn't change the results of the group at all) and been in and out of hospital past week
so i played random and lost 1-2 - have an important match coming up vs lucifron soon so didn't wanna play tvt and disclose any strats - and jinro didn't want to play offrace either. - Don't really mind - but don't take those games seriously .
E-sports won't go far with players like you. It's very unprofessional to throw a match like that, plus there were alot of viewers watching you lose by playing offrace... And stop being so full of excuses every time you lose.
On April 17 2010 03:36 DeMusliM wrote: didn't wanna play, asked for PP, or defwin for jinro (me winning or losing wouldn't change the results of the group at all) and been in and out of hospital past week
so i played random and lost 1-2 - have an important match coming up vs lucifron soon so didn't wanna play tvt and disclose any strats - and jinro didn't want to play offrace either. - Don't really mind - but don't take those games seriously .
That's interesting, but won't you be playing TvT against raven in the gosucup quarters anyway?
Already played Raven - was meant to be streamed yesterday but apparently livestream died for everyone.
As for the poster Cyclone25 - i hope you don't continue to troll on sc2 websites also. I write on this forum to inform people/discuss with people anything related to sc2. If i'm to play a game that means something then of course feeling under the weather or not i'll do it - this game vs jinro didn't change results in our group at all, a win or loss for either one of us and the results would of stayed the same. I have an important game coming up in another tournament of tvt - and i don't want to reveal any more gameplay of mine even in the slightest, be that unprofessional, i don't think so, and trust me - with players that are willing to voice themselves and actually show they have some personality/thought behind their actions are what makes e-sports grow, not stump its growth.
On April 17 2010 03:36 DeMusliM wrote: didn't wanna play, asked for PP, or defwin for jinro (me winning or losing wouldn't change the results of the group at all) and been in and out of hospital past week
so i played random and lost 1-2 - have an important match coming up vs lucifron soon so didn't wanna play tvt and disclose any strats - and jinro didn't want to play offrace either. - Don't really mind - but don't take those games seriously .
E-sports won't go far with players like you. It's very unprofessional to throw a match like that, plus there were alot of viewers watching you lose by playing offrace... And stop being so full of excuses every time you lose.
Ofc he didn't want to disclose any strategies, same thing happens all the time in BW. Have you seriously never heard of a sports team that has lost a game in a tournament to play mindgames with their opponents?
I fully understand demuslims descision. He came on here to explain why he did what he did, or else he'd get 10'000 PMs asking him that exact question.
edit: also it did not change ANYTHING in the group. The winner between Dimaga and HasuObs still takes 2nd place. So please stop whining
Thankyou Julmust for understanding - Cyclone25 was a pretty big troll on most of the wc3 websites, so i wouldn't take anything he says too seriously - or a admin should ban him.
On April 17 2010 04:04 DeMusliM wrote: Thankyou Julmust for understanding - Cyclone25 was a pretty big troll on most of the wc3 websites, so i wouldn't take anything he says too seriously - or a admin should ban him.
The other website where I post is gosugamers, and I'm not trolling. Don't lie. I said something similar to you, when you played vs DowaQ in starswar qualifiers, and after you lost, instead of a simple "gg", you said smth like "sc2 is out for 2 days and is already more balanced, cu guys in sc2". Again excuses from you ...
And what sucks is that if you won vs Jinro by offracing, how would that look for him?? But if you lose, it doesn't matter because you didn't care.
At least notice us next time you plan to play offrace and lose the game, so it won't be a waste of time for viewers. Thanks.
On April 17 2010 04:46 SmoKim wrote: Any info on Mondragons matches? they are still "tba", anything you know Nazgul?
We were scheduled for monday but he had unexpected stuff at university going on and didn't manage to make it. Since then we have not had the chance to find a date that suits us both. I suspect we might just have to play it unannounced when we find a time we're both online at.
I'm still wondering why Kolll made those corrupters. Did he intend to get broodlords? Was he anticipating a lot of spine-crawlers so he could corrupt them, in addition to hunting overlords? It seems like he would've been able to hold his center expansion if he had ~10 hydras instead of those corrupters.
Yeah, some bizarre decisions from kolll that game. TLO definitely played well and deserves mad credit for pulling it out, but he had (and needed) help from kolll after the opening.
Edit: And yeah day should totally do the rep. And he needs to catch kolll's final attempt to maynard probes to his high yield.
Loved that koll v tlo match although the observer missed a good 1/3 of any given action in each of the matches while staring at things like a spire for 30 seconds -_-; Other than that nitpick it was really interesting to watch!
I can't wait to get home and practice infestor harass of workers, I'd thought about it before but never realized how effective it could be if used at certain times
He definitely tossed it away by not responding to the change in play but props to tlo in showing that thinking out of the box on a zvz can get you back into it. I mean the way he used spine crawlers to tank damage on his pushes was awesome. Sure they didnt do much damage but they were super hp tanks! Infestor use was awesome but Im rather surprised no one has commented on the use of 'ticklers' as hp tanks.
Kolll seems to be so outclassed in nearly every game I've seen of him so far, kinda sad to see that seeing as how talented he seemed in BW. Maybe he just has decided not to take the beta as seriously yet.
Jyvblamo, you can expect spoilers to be in a spoiler thread. Thats why there spoilers. If you read other tourney threads, the nice posters will post the results in Spoiler tags. Its common sense not to post the complete scores for a tournament with VODS in a post. You can post it for the ppl who havn't seen it yet, but its just BM to do what you did. My 2c
On April 21 2010 03:07 Sheth wrote: Jyvblamo, you can expect spoilers to be in a spoiler thread. Thats why there spoilers. If you read other tourney threads, the nice posters will post the results in Spoiler tags. Its common sense not to post the complete scores for a tournament with VODS in a post. You can post it for the ppl who havn't seen it yet, but its just BM to do what you did. My 2c
Except, this is a thread in the tournament section, where people discuss results of tournaments. I mean, it would be BM for me to post the results in a thread from the Strategy forum or wherever, but I think it's just common sense that there will be spoilers in the tournament thread.
And in my experience here, posts in tournament threads don't generally have spoiler tags.
Except, this is a thread in the tournament section, where people discuss results of tournaments.
If you read threads in this tournament section, you SPOILER the results. I'm sick of telling you this nicely. For MSL, OSL, and TSL for instance, theres ALWAYS a spoiler before the results are given out. There is a reason for this. Your just to dense to realize that your wrong. + Show Spoiler +
Except, this is a thread in the tournament section, where people discuss results of tournaments.
If you read threads in this tournament section, you SPOILER the results. I'm sick of telling you this nicely. For MSL, OSL, and TSL for instance, theres ALWAYS a spoiler before the results are given out. There is a reason for this. Your just to dense to realize that your wrong. + Show Spoiler +
Sorry =(
This is true of the opening post, but all the posts after it don't follow that convention.
Uh Sheth, this thread was used for live reporting and its standard to post the results without spoilers as long as it is not in the OP or anywhere you're accidentally going to look. It's a bit bad that this thread is not clearly distinquished as either an announcement or LR thread so it causes confusion.
When you can't find the link to the stream and are forced to look through posts for it and you see the results not in a spoiler tag.... Common courtesy, Spoiler the results. Unless you have a thread that says clearly "Spoilers here" And yeah you can look for results here Puosu, but its just polite not to be like NAH you don't need to spoil that!!! Heres the results!! Like Jyv did.
On April 21 2010 03:24 Sheth wrote: When you can't find the link to the stream and are forced to look through posts for it and you see the results not in a spoiler tag.... Common courtesy, Spoiler the results. Unless you have a thread that says clearly "Spoilers here" And yeah you can look for results here Puosu, but its just polite not to be like NAH you don't need to spoil that!!! Heres the results!! Like Jyv did.
I don't see why I should be made out as the villain here, spoilers are in every single tournament thread. I don't think it's reasonable to go into a tournament thread's latest pages looking for a stream link and not expect to see spoilers.
In the case of this tournament though, the information is very disorganized, so I can't fault you. All the streams are listed on the Razer domination site: http://razer.cups.gamesports.net/live And usually glhf.tv will be streaming the games, and they are up on the featured streamers list.
Where do you guys watch this? I watch the VoDs on the GLHF.tv thingy but those commentators just dont know Anything about starcraft ;_; anyone has a better alternative?
On April 21 2010 03:07 Sheth wrote: Jyvblamo, you can expect spoilers to be in a spoiler thread. Thats why there spoilers. If you read other tourney threads, the nice posters will post the results in Spoiler tags. Its common sense not to post the complete scores for a tournament with VODS in a post. You can post it for the ppl who havn't seen it yet, but its just BM to do what you did. My 2c
On April 22 2010 02:57 SmoKim wrote: how the fuck does he keep up playing so strong and creative?
Nazgul might me on to something: kids genious <3
honestly it's underappreciated even with all the praises, people say random is easier in the beta cause creativity still rules, but theres 3 stages in the development of strategy games, the first one random is very very hard because you need to understand the strategy behind 3 races when everyone is still learning the strategies, second stage random is the best its when the strategies are known but the mechanics aren't perfect yet, third stage is when strategy is very far developed random becomes hard again because its difficult to have perfect mechanics on all races
to perform with random in stages 1 or 3 is just incredible. performing with random is impressive in general but even moreso.
On April 22 2010 02:57 SmoKim wrote: how the fuck does he keep up playing so strong and creative?
Nazgul might me on to something: kids genious <3
honestly it's underappreciated even with all the praises, people say random is easier in the beta cause creativity still rules, but theres 3 stages in the development of strategy games, the first one random is very very hard because you need to understand the strategy behind 3 races when everyone is still learning the strategies, second stage random is the best its when the strategies are known but the mechanics aren't perfect yet, third stage is when strategy is very far developed random becomes hard again because its difficult to have perfect mechanics on all races
to perform with random in stages 1 or 3 is just incredible. performing with random is impressive in general but even moreso.
Indeed, i think everybody is hoping he can keep it up the further we get in the game
Luci has still 2 games to play. Today vs TLO and tomorrow vs Koll. IF he wins both games 2:0 he actually would have 6 points with a map ratio of 4:2 and TLO would have a ratio of 4:4. that means luci would be #2 and advance to the next round. so luci still has a very slight chance to advance but as soon as he loses one map to TLO, hes out. if he wins 2:0 vs TLO, he could even lose 1 map to koll and still advance with a 2:1 win
yeah i dunno why lucifron vs TLO is not in the Teamliquid calender schedule. can't wait to see that! and yeah, there will probably be some streams like always (iirc)
On April 22 2010 18:49 Enox wrote: wow, just realsised that there could come up a very interesting situation in group D. currently, the group looks like this:
Luci has still 2 games to play. Today vs TLO and tomorrow vs Koll. IF he wins both games 2:0 he actually would have 6 points with a map ratio of 4:2 and TLO would have a ratio of 4:4. that means luci would be #2 and advance to the next round. so luci still has a very slight chance to advance but as soon as he loses one map to TLO, hes out. if he wins 2:0 vs TLO, he could even lose 1 map to koll and still advance with a 2:1 win
Lucifron beat TLO 2:0. Luci's marauder timing was just too perfect for TLO to handle. Kolll doesnt stand a chance against Luci so it looks like TLO will not be advancing after all Still, go Kolll! lol.
On April 22 2010 18:49 Enox wrote: wow, just realsised that there could come up a very interesting situation in group D. currently, the group looks like this:
Luci has still 2 games to play. Today vs TLO and tomorrow vs Koll. IF he wins both games 2:0 he actually would have 6 points with a map ratio of 4:2 and TLO would have a ratio of 4:4. that means luci would be #2 and advance to the next round. so luci still has a very slight chance to advance but as soon as he loses one map to TLO, hes out. if he wins 2:0 vs TLO, he could even lose 1 map to koll and still advance with a 2:1 win
Lucifron beat TLO 2:0. Luci's marauder timing was just too perfect for TLO to handle. Kolll doesnt stand a chance against Luci so it looks like TLO will not be advancing after all Still, go Kolll! lol.
i really like watching tournaments and appreciate you streamers but couldnt the vods be posted like in the mlg or hdh tourney (in the first post under vod) thegunruns game are especially hard to find with names like hdasdaf and asdasdass ^^
so group stage is done now and they decided to let the first 2 of each group play vs each other? again? where is the sense in that? we saw those matchups during the group stage already not a good decission imo
On April 26 2010 07:49 Enox wrote: so group stage is done now and they decided to let the first 2 of each group play vs each other? again? where is the sense in that? we saw those matchups during the group stage already not a good decission imo
On April 26 2010 07:49 Enox wrote: so group stage is done now and they decided to let the first 2 of each group play vs each other? again? where is the sense in that? we saw those matchups during the group stage already not a good decission imo
On April 26 2010 07:49 Enox wrote: so group stage is done now and they decided to let the first 2 of each group play vs each other? again? where is the sense in that? we saw those matchups during the group stage already not a good decission imo
lol.. if you did, you see the matches there in the grid. nazgul vs whitera, demuslim vs luci and so on. its the first two of each group playing each other
On April 26 2010 08:03 Enox wrote: lol.. if you did, you see the matches there in the grid. nazgul vs whitera, demuslim vs luci and so on. its the first two of each group playing each other
Nazgul and WhiteRa weren't in the same group. Demuslim and Lucifrom weren't in the same group. Haypro and Strelok weren't in the same group. Bratok and Dimaga weren't in the same group.
We have composed two replay packs with all the matches of Matchday 1 and Matchday 2 included. You can find them at the brand new replay section over at Razer-Domination.com!
Have fun watching
We will of course update this page with the Replays of Matchday 3 and 4 of the Playoffs. Check the dates too on the mainpage, all four matches have already been scheduled.
On April 26 2010 09 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 26 2010 09 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:12 frumplejoon wrote: those are some mean quarterfinal matchups, lots of terran
Just caught the tail end of the game on Steppes. Can someone tell me how that game got into the position where Strelok had ~6 banshees at Haypro's nat with Haypro having barely any anti-air?
On May 01 2010 06:03 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Crazy third game.
Yeah nice game indeed. Demu held his natural quite well -- i like his emergency barracks + bunker wall, but Lucifron's relentless attacks were just too much. I think Demu could have done much better if he had taken out the 5+ obs that were giving lucifron sight of everything.
Edit: it's 2-2, going into 5th game now!
His toss seems pretty strong lmao. I wonder what is behind his switch. Sad to see him playing a race other than terran. His terran play was so efficient and calculated.
Edit #2: Now demu is playing toss and lucifron is back to terran... are they alternating? lmao what is going on here? Perhaps they decided that they do not want to play TvT?
On May 01 2010 06:38 DeMusliM wrote: Don't really wanna whine too much about it - but their are quite a few things that DEFINETELY need changing :S - Voidrays/sentrys for sure.
Metalopolis is too hard vs Protoss as Terran, and my zerg/protoss is pretty ok - so i thought hey, if i random i get an advantage of him not knowing what i was early - i lost anyway but ^^
Dimaga 3-0. I don't think any of the games were very close, but I was only catching parts of them.
Edit: My recap from what I saw
Game 1: Failed reaper harass (0 kills) into hellions with 2 banshees (scouted and stopped with mutas). GG after the banshees die.
Game 2: Terran FE's to island with CC before rax, Dimaga baneling busts to kill almost all SCVs at main. Dimaga goes mutas, terran goes vikings but is contained in base - Dimaga takes map and wins with like some of every unit (muta/baneling/roach/hydra/infestor?)
Game 3: Not sure what happened, caught the end where terran attacks zerg with a handful of hellions/vikings/thor/scvs, zerg defends with zerglings/neural parasite on thor. GG after attack fails.
Sigh, I finally caught the White-Ra vs Nazgul match and I was sorely disappointed. Incredibly low level play in the first game (at one point Nazgul had 700+ minerals saved up). Then Nazgul just chose smart play to White-Ra's poor decision makng (warpgate push vs colossus tech on Blistering Sands which heavily favors warpgate play; proxy 2-gate vs no wall on Scrap Station). I mean come on.. I thought I was going to watch revolutionary play like Nony's phoenixes.
pvp isn't broken on certain maps but on blistering with a backdoor into someones main it forces the game towards a single strategy. if you aren't capable of seeing the difference between a broken map and a broken matchup please stfu.
Xxio the remaining two games will be scheduled in the near future. The games will take place before May 9th ofc, since that is the tourney end =) You will find the exact dates on Razer-Domination.com as soon as they're public. If you want we can announce it here as well.
if you look at blizzard's stats that they gave out on the deveoper chat the only slightly imbalance machup is protoss vs terran which the protoss wins 54 percent of the time to terrans 46. All of the rest are are 51 vs 49.
On May 06 2010 04:45 GIMJ wrote: if you look at blizzard's stats that they gave out on the deveoper chat the only slightly imbalance machup is protoss vs terran which the protoss wins 54 percent of the time to terrans 46. All of the rest are are 51 vs 49.
The facts that
1) we've had a balance patch at least once every two weeks, 2) Protoss won every tournament in the last week (ZOTAC, ITC, ITL, Razer where Demuslim picked P, HuK 14-0 in Triple Strike, tester[gm] no-loss sweep of Gosucoaching), and 3) Force Field is extremely overpowered
lead me to believe there will be a patch Also, win %s from Blizzard are just statistics. They don't tell you what is or isn't balanced
On May 06 2010 04:45 GIMJ wrote: if you look at blizzard's stats that they gave out on the deveoper chat the only slightly imbalance machup is protoss vs terran which the protoss wins 54 percent of the time to terrans 46. All of the rest are are 51 vs 49.
The facts that
1) we've had a balance patch at least once every two weeks, 2) Protoss won every tournament in the last week (ZOTAC, ITC, ITL, Razer where Demuslim picked P, HuK 14-0 in Triple Strike, tester[gm] no-loss sweep of Gosucoaching), and 3) Force Field is extremely overpowered
lead me to believe there will be a patch Also, win %s from Blizzard are just statistics. They don't tell you what is or isn't balanced
The truth.
Sad those who dont see the sentry imbalances. Its a caster with one of the best spells ingame AND good dps for very low cost.
I think the problem is that protoss has too many options that are viable vs every unit combo of the other races. You basicly have to counter them very specificly, but they dont really have to mix up their tech that much depending on what you do
i dunno about u, but i wouldnt count 100gas as low cost really. Not expensive, but not cheap. I think the bigger problem lies with people not being able to properly macro and target them down. Look at nony, he has been rocking a pheonix void ray build without any ff's...... Every race has its cheap units.
On May 06 2010 04:45 GIMJ wrote: if you look at blizzard's stats that they gave out on the deveoper chat the only slightly imbalance machup is protoss vs terran which the protoss wins 54 percent of the time to terrans 46. All of the rest are are 51 vs 49.
The facts that
1) we've had a balance patch at least once every two weeks, 2) Protoss won every tournament in the last week (ZOTAC, ITC, ITL, Razer where Demuslim picked P, HuK 14-0 in Triple Strike, tester[gm] no-loss sweep of Gosucoaching), and 3) Force Field is extremely overpowered
lead me to believe there will be a patch Also, win %s from Blizzard are just statistics. They don't tell you what is or isn't balanced
On May 06 2010 04:45 GIMJ wrote: if you look at blizzard's stats that they gave out on the deveoper chat the only slightly imbalance machup is protoss vs terran which the protoss wins 54 percent of the time to terrans 46. All of the rest are are 51 vs 49.
The facts that
1) we've had a balance patch at least once every two weeks, 2) Protoss won every tournament in the last week (ZOTAC, ITC, ITL, Razer where Demuslim picked P, HuK 14-0 in Triple Strike, tester[gm] no-loss sweep of Gosucoaching), and 3) Force Field is extremely overpowered
lead me to believe there will be a patch Also, win %s from Blizzard are just statistics. They don't tell you what is or isn't balanced
Ts won both craftcups and now idra beat huk too?
Well obviously Protoss isn't totally invincible but they're completely dominating overall. Also HuK has a bad CPU impairing him and losing only to Idra is no mean feat
On May 06 2010 01 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 06 2010 01 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:19 Sfydjklm wrote: demu picks p and pwns dimaga 4-0. You heard it here first^^
On May 06 2010 04:45 GIMJ wrote: if you look at blizzard's stats that they gave out on the deveoper chat the only slightly imbalance machup is protoss vs terran which the protoss wins 54 percent of the time to terrans 46. All of the rest are are 51 vs 49.
The facts that
1) we've had a balance patch at least once every two weeks, 2) Protoss won every tournament in the last week (ZOTAC, ITC, ITL, Razer where Demuslim picked P, HuK 14-0 in Triple Strike, tester[gm] no-loss sweep of Gosucoaching), and 3) Force Field is extremely overpowered
lead me to believe there will be a patch Also, win %s from Blizzard are just statistics. They don't tell you what is or isn't balanced
Ts won both craftcups and now idra beat huk too?
Well obviously Protoss isn't totally invincible but they're completely dominating overall. Also HuK has a bad CPU impairing him and losing only to Idra is no mean feat
HuK Norris does not have a bad CPU impairing him. If he wanted, he could change his CPU on-the-fly WHILE playing sc2. He just doesn't want to imbalance the game too much.
Ok, Strelok and Nazgul are supposed to play now, right? Any streams? I read somewhere that Day9 would cast the matches today, but I don't think he's live on Livestream.
Strelok has won the first game. He did a proxy barrack Marauder push. Nazgul did some amazing defence with probes. But Strelok always was ahead by one or two units which resulted in a fast GG by Nazgul.
Nazgul exploits FF to the maximum in order to wall Streloks choke. Meanwhile he slams down a lot of gates and expands. At the major battle Nazgul has a huge amount of Immortals, even Streloks Ghosts with EMP can't turn the tide around. 1-1
Really, that's so stupid -_- At least make ForceField have hp so that you can targetfire it down. Currently it makes every melee unit unusable and makes you lose your natural every single time if they happen to click the ramp with a sentry.
After a denied Bunker/Marauder rush from Strelok Nazgul does it again: FF at the enemys's choke. But Strelok comes up with a new solution, tanks, with them he is able to stop the FF's. Nevertheless Nazgul was able to expand in time and forces Strelok to do a push. With this push Nazgul's army gets utterly raped by Marauders/Tanks resulting into a 2-1 for Strelok.
Amazing TvP with a good solution for early FF: fast ghosts with EMP and a bunker below your own choke. Much back and forth in the midgame and EMP vs PSI Storm battles. Awesome match with Nazgul as the winner: 2-2!
Wow, Strelok, are you retarded or something? You lost 2 marauders trying to run away, whereas if you stayed and fought, you'd lose them also, but you'd kill at least 2 stalkers.
As an aside, would you recommend stalker/probe rather than zealot/sentry/probe vs early marauder like that? Or was it a map by map decision (no ramp vs ramp)?
On May 08 2010 05:07 Hold-Lurker wrote: Congrats Nazgul!
As an aside, would you recommend stalker/probe rather than zealot/sentry/probe vs early marauder like that? Or was it a map by map decision (no ramp vs ramp)?
Zealot sentry is slow and will get outmicro'd on a map without a good force fieldable choke
On May 08 2010 05:07 Hold-Lurker wrote: Congrats Nazgul!
As an aside, would you recommend stalker/probe rather than zealot/sentry/probe vs early marauder like that? Or was it a map by map decision (no ramp vs ramp)?
I would never recommend zeal/sentry on a map with no choke against early marauder
Now to watch DIMAGA and DeMusliM. My favorite zerg playing against one of my favorite terrans (Strelok and Brat being the others). I hope you people don't disappoint me!
Dimaga plays some fast Overseer strategy lately. No more fast expanding. Let's see if he does that in patch 11 too ^^ Day[9] definitely missed it when he was describing Dimaga's style as of late.
The overseer got very low on hp, and Dimaga couldn't scout anymore with it ... normally he would have scouted Demuslim's push and be more prepared for it.
this happend in previous sc2 beta tournies aswell, think it was zotac cup.. admin just had a shitload of buds observing lagging the game, so damn stupid.
I dunno why they allow obs in any important matches in the first place. Just have a ref and streamer, why allow all these random ppl? They should be able to see it on the stream like anyone else.
On May 08 2010 05:57 PredY wrote: just leave the fcking game ffs. respect the players
And now one of them is even flaming Demuslim?
That's just unacceptable. -_-
The game was still lagging when that obs left -> it means it wasn't him lagging = totally understandable to flame Demuslim cuz he asked him to leave!
Anyway, Demuslim should have left the game from the first minute, not to try some all-in cheese and when it doesn't work complain about lag -.- Well deserved win by Dimaga imo ... he had lags too.
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On May 08 2010 05:57 PredY wrote: just leave the fcking game ffs. respect the players
And now one of them is even flaming Demuslim?
That's just unacceptable. -_-
The game was still lagging when that obs left -> it means it wasn't him lagging = totally understandable to flame Demuslim cuz he asked him to leave!
Anyway, Demuslim should have left the game from the first minute, not to try some all-in cheese and when it doesn't work complain about lag -.- Well deserved win by Dimaga imo ... he had lags too.
I'm having a hard time trying to put into words just how wrong you are without flaming you. So..
Man, how does Dimaga recover so well after that kind of harass. My econ as zerg always feels stretched so thin if I lose a significant number of drones/queens to harass.
On May 08 2010 06:31 teamsolid wrote: Dimaga had no eco either, he lost all his drones. Demuslim at least has mules which lets him continue to stream marines.
On May 08 2010 06:31 teamsolid wrote: Dimaga had no eco either, he lost all his drones. Demuslim at least has mules which lets him continue to stream marines.
he still had drones in his main base
Yea, like 2-3... he transferred almost all of them to the nat to help def
On May 08 2010 05:57 PredY wrote: just leave the fcking game ffs. respect the players
And now one of them is even flaming Demuslim?
That's just unacceptable. -_-
The game was still lagging when that obs left -> it means it wasn't him lagging = totally understandable to flame Demuslim cuz he asked him to leave!
Anyway, Demuslim should have left the game from the first minute, not to try some all-in cheese and when it doesn't work complain about lag -.- Well deserved win by Dimaga imo ... he had lags too.
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Lol, this is really taking your vendetta against demuslim too far :[
The observers who did this should be blacklisted.
Excellent 3rd/4th and 1st/2nd place games, awesome tournament overall :D! I liked Demu's build in game 5, reminded me of SC1 vulture expos... but sort of inside-out/upside down, reversed... something
Congratulations to DIMAGA. He managed to beat three terrans in a row during Razer Domination. Brat_OK, Strelok and now, DeMusliM.
And awesome tourney held by Razer. Probably the one who excited me more along with the first TL Invitational, which was pretty good and well organized.
Another great series that must have been a relief for Razer and Zotac. The previous rounds didn't really deliver fireworks, at least speaking for my own games. Awesome final to an awesome tournament.
Replays of 3rd place decider and overall final are already up at Razer-Domination.com plus a replaypack featuring all the replays of the Razer StarCraft II Beta Domination. It was a blast guys!
Also I want to take this opportunity to call out the people that didn't leave the game 2 of DeMuslim vs DIMAGA when it was lagging and they were asked to leave. Both these guys stayed in the game unnecessary when asked to leave. The game was continued (I strongly disagree with this) with them in the game and continued to lag throughout until the end. Game 3 they weren't allowed to join anymore and were played without lag.
superxpym from SC2TV.ru thebest from Millenium
These organizations should come out and apologize for this major fuckup. Until then I really hope tournaments refuse observers from these organizations in order to protect their player interests.
On May 08 2010 05:57 PredY wrote: just leave the fcking game ffs. respect the players
And now one of them is even flaming Demuslim?
That's just unacceptable. -_-
The game was still lagging when that obs left -> it means it wasn't him lagging = totally understandable to flame Demuslim cuz he asked him to leave!
Anyway, Demuslim should have left the game from the first minute, not to try some all-in cheese and when it doesn't work complain about lag -.- Well deserved win by Dimaga imo ... he had lags too.
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Lol, this is really taking your vendetta against demuslim too far :[
The observers who did this should be blacklisted.
Excellent 3rd/4th and 1st/2nd place games, awesome tournament overall :D! I liked Demu's build in game 5, reminded me of SC1 vulture expos... but sort of inside-out/upside down, reversed... something
wasnt observer i presume it was one of the visitors for sc2tv.ru. I never got why you need to have 2 russian(or two streams in any same language for that matter) streams(for gg.ru and sc2tv.ru). Sure the websites are competing but if thats the case, compete for the streams too, if at least by superior hardware specs and bandwidth(i think sc2tv.ru wins here significantly even despite what day said- their streams are consistently better then gg.ru's) and professionalism(not alt tabbing, barabulka).
Awesome finals, a shame game 2 had to be as it was.... they should have remade the game without all the random observers and only let 3 streamers in as they did for the rest of the matches...
and wtf was that about an obs who contacted DeMuslim and startet flaming?? such a rude nerd
On May 08 2010 07:21 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Also I want to take this opportunity to call out the people that didn't leave the game 2 of DeMuslim vs DIMAGA when it was lagging and they were asked to leave. Both these guys stayed in the game unnecessary when asked to leave. The game was continued (I strongly disagree with this) with them in the game and continued to lag throughout until the end. Game 3 they weren't allowed to join anymore and were played without lag.
superxpym from SC2TV.ru thebest from Millenium
These organizations should come out and apologize for this major fuckup. Until then I really hope tournaments refuse observers from these organizations in order to protect their player interests.
Completely agree and the fact that they went on to flame him after the fact is even worse
On May 08 2010 06:56 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Another great series that must have been a relief for Razer and Zotac. The previous rounds didn't really deliver fireworks, at least speaking for my own games. Awesome final to an awesome tournament.
ZOTAC hasnt to do anything with this cup. I just have 1 b.net account and that is the ZOTAC one. But thats just a little fact .
I just want to say thanks to all participants and all Streamers.I hope you enjoyed this tournement and sorry for all the small problems we had during this time.
On May 08 2010 07:51 UbiNax wrote: Awesome finals, a shame game 2 had to be as it was.... they should have remade the game without all the random observers and only let 3 streamers in as they did for the rest of the matches...
and wtf was that about an obs who contacted DeMuslim and startet flaming?? such a rude nerd
This is not proven to be one of the obses at all. Without it being proven to be an obs I think it's pretty safe to assume it was just some viewer.
On May 08 2010 07:57 PownEr wrote: ZOTAC hasnt to do anything with this cup. I just have 1 b.net account and that is the ZOTAC one. But thats just a little fact .
I just want to say thanks to all participants and all Streamers.I hope you enjoyed this tournement and sorry for all the small problems we had during this time.
Greetings
Free exposure for Zotac then! Anyway gjgj regardless. Thanks to Razer and Freaks4u.
Best series of sc2 yet imo. The lag sucked and the guys who stayed were extremly bm and are giving russians a bad name, but the final series had a bit of everything.
These organizations should come out and apologize for this major fuckup. Until then I really hope tournaments refuse observers from these organizations in order to protect their player interests.
I do hope we see some sort of humilty from these organizations as well. ID also like to hear DeMuslim's and DIMAGA's thoughts on the situation.
Btw Naz, were you sweatin with Strelok? =) Awsome series, had to leave before game 5 -- damn work getting in the way of SC!
Well i'd just like to say gz Dimaga before i say anything else - he's the guy i always like to meet at the end of a tournament rather than the start - (when we were both placed in the same group at the start of this tournament, i must say i was a little torn about it). But thankfully we met again in the end! Group B ftw.
Ok, but about the obs that just wouldn't leave in the 2nd game, i cannot express how angry this made me - If i was lagging, and i was an observer - i would not hesitate for a second to leave, i class it just as common decency - i ALMOST think of it as rude to lag (as it usually hints at downloading/tabbing) but obviously at times people just can't help it which is why they should leave. Now, i waited for a long time with the game paused and i asked over 10x for people to leave and just let day9 stay, some people left - thanks for that, some people didn't and so the game was just a mess. Any observer, i don't care if your streaming - if your ruining the game, just leave - this should be implemented into everyones mindset - it is the players first, then admins, then the streamers - not the other way round. I was pretty damn mannered about it, and a player, ANY player should not have to ask 10x and get ignored - especially when it's a bloody final and these guys are holding up everyone. After this situation i was just soooo angry, i don't think i need to tell anyone here, since we're all gamers - once your frustrated you play alot worse.
What also didn't help was, some people took it upon themselves to spam me with abuse, or spam "WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" over and over again, one name i remember was "TRES" who wouldn't stop talking - then went on to flame me constantly and yes, spam my screen with garbage - unfortunately dnd doesn't work properly or bugs sometimes, and i had to play game 4 with that going on. I dunno when this became the norm, as i remember someone interfering with TLO vs White-ra also telling him what whitera was doing and when. Obviously this isn't everyone doing this, but this has become a pretty big problem without DND working correctly, and i can't remember when a minority of people became such assholes.
So to finish it off - the people that left the game when asked, thanks for respecting the players themselves and the tournament, and the viewers on the rest of the streams. As for the guys who spoilt the game - well, hope their legs fall off? %)
Watched most of the 3rd place match, took a final, and watching through the last parts of the finals now, amazing series. Really delivered today, wish I could give the vods to my mom for mother's day.
On May 08 2010 11:25 DeMusliM wrote: Well i'd just like to say gz Dimaga before i say anything else - he's the guy i always like to meet at the end of a tournament rather than the start - (when we were both placed in the same group at the start of this tournament, i must say i was a little torn about it). But thankfully we met again in the end! Group B ftw.
Ok, but about the obs that just wouldn't leave in the 2nd game, i cannot express how angry this made me - If i was lagging, and i was an observer - i would not hesitate for a second to leave, i class it just as common decency - i ALMOST think of it as rude to lag (as it usually hints at downloading/tabbing) but obviously at times people just can't help it which is why they should leave. Now, i waited for a long time with the game paused and i asked over 10x for people to leave and just let day9 stay, some people left - thanks for that, some people didn't and so the game was just a mess. Any observer, i don't care if your streaming - if your ruining the game, just leave - this should be implemented into everyones mindset - it is the players first, then admins, then the streamers - not the other way round. I was pretty damn mannered about it, and a player, ANY player should not have to ask 10x and get ignored - especially when it's a bloody final and these guys are holding up everyone. After this situation i was just soooo angry, i don't think i need to tell anyone here, since we're all gamers - once your frustrated you play alot worse.
What also didn't help was, some people took it upon themselves to spam me with abuse, or spam "WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" over and over again, one name i remember was "TRES" who wouldn't stop talking - then went on to flame me constantly and yes, spam my screen with garbage - unfortunately dnd doesn't work properly or bugs sometimes, and i had to play game 4 with that going on. I dunno when this became the norm, as i remember someone interfering with TLO vs White-ra also telling him what whitera was doing and when. Obviously this isn't everyone doing this, but this has become a pretty big problem without DND working correctly, and i can't remember when a minority of people became such assholes.
So to finish it off - the people that left the game when asked, thanks for respecting the players themselves and the tournament, and the viewers on the rest of the streams. As for the guys who spoilt the game - well, hope their legs fall off? %)
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
Playing without lag is holy as long as there's obses in the game anyone can ask them to leave. Clearly the admins fully agreed with all the requests. When it comes to lag an admin is an extension of a players experience. And yes an English stream is a lot more universal so it has privilege over anything else for that reason. These are things that are really obvious.
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
Playing without lag is holy as long as there's obses in the game anyone can ask them to leave. Clearly the admins fully agreed with all the requests. When it comes to lag an admin is an extension of a players experience. And yes an English stream is a lot more universal so it has privilege over anything else for that reason. These are things that are really obvious.
Yes, it is obvious that an English TL member will always defend the English TL stream no matter what, but this is your personal opinion... Try to make it a rule if you like, but don't blame people for not doing what you want them to do because these kind of attitudes wouldn't help professionalizing e-sports.
This is your personal opinion, try to make it a rule if you like, but don't blame people for not doing what you want them to do because these kind of attitudes wouldn't help professionalizing e-sports.
It's not personal opinion it's common etiquette part of the professional e-sport scene.
I think the norm needs to change. It is simply much better for both parts (the players playing, and the people watching), if the replay instead of the actual match is streamed.
That would eliminiate unnecessary lag while at the same time make the game accessible to more streamers. Also with the extra benefit of the streamers being able to paus or slow down.
EDIT: Not to mention, it also eliminates the possibility of cheating.
I have my opinion about obses. There is 1 offciail stream of every tournament. Why the hell every site has to put his streamer in the game? More then that, they usually put 2 streamers. I think there has to be 1 offciil stream of the tournament and no more. Because honestly i'm pretty tired to wait first until game starts, because some streamers didn't finish eating or having problems with computer or whatever, and then asking streamers to exit from game which i did numeriously in game 1.
I just dont understand why the ob's didn't just leave straight away. Its common knowledge alt tabbing in game lags the game. When 1 ob alt tabbed, lagged the game, ob was asked to leave. Obviously didn't respond cause HE"S NOT IN THE GAME! When he did come back... asked to leave then complained that 'he's on a 40mb connection' and it cant be him..
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
Playing without lag is holy as long as there's obses in the game anyone can ask them to leave. Clearly the admins fully agreed with all the requests. When it comes to lag an admin is an extension of a players experience. And yes an English stream is a lot more universal so it has privilege over anything else for that reason. These are things that are really obvious.
Yes, it is obvious that an English TL member will always defend the English TL stream no matter what, but this is your personal opinion... Try to make it a rule if you like, but don't blame people for not doing what you want them to do because these kind of attitudes wouldn't help professionalizing e-sports.
I would agree with you if this was just Nazgul talking. But both players asked observers to leave. How do you justify not respecting the players' opinions? It is pure goodwill on their part to let people stream at all, its not like you have a RIGHT to stream. And in terms of pure numbers, english is indeed the most-spoken language in the world (I can link you to some very trustworthy data on the matter). Thats a fact, not an opinion.
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
Playing without lag is holy as long as there's obses in the game anyone can ask them to leave. Clearly the admins fully agreed with all the requests. When it comes to lag an admin is an extension of a players experience. And yes an English stream is a lot more universal so it has privilege over anything else for that reason. These are things that are really obvious.
Yes, it is obvious that an English TL member will always defend the English TL stream no matter what, but this is your personal opinion... Try to make it a rule if you like, but don't blame people for not doing what you want them to do because these kind of attitudes wouldn't help professionalizing e-sports.
I would agree with you if this was just Nazgul talking. But both players asked observers to leave. How do you justify not respecting the players' opinions? It is pure goodwill on their part to let people stream at all, its not like you have a RIGHT to stream. And in terms of pure numbers, english is indeed the most-spoken language in the world (I can link you to some very trustworthy data on the matter). Thats a fact, not an opinion.
Your point is that when a game starts to lag, all the non-english non-TL streamers have to gtfo ? Or that players should always decide who can stay or gtfo ? I don't believe that any of these rules is transcendent enough to impose itself naturally.. O and btw, English is not the most-spoken language in the world, it is Chinese.
EDIT: English is the 3rd one, after Spanish, so be careful with your arguments.
Tewy are you a millenium streamer or something ? It's just obvious that if there's only one stream between english/russian/french (russian&french were kicked i think) it as to be the english one...
Yes, players can tell anyone to gtfo. Its their game, they didnt sign a contract or anything, i dont see how this could possibly even be a point of debate.
Sorry Tewy, I didnt express myself clearly. What I meant was most spoken language on the internet (so potential viewers).
"A study on the presence of Romance languages on the Internet, published by the Latin Union in collaboration with FUNREDES, showed that as of November 2007, 45% of the webpages were written in English, 3.8% in Spanish, 4.41% in French, 2.66% in Italian, 1.39% in Portuguese, 0.28% in Romanian and 5.9% in German.[2]
Chinese is the most spoken native language on Earth, and the second most-used language by Internet users."
This is just wikipedia (link), but i can dig out more reliable sources if you want.
Heh i come from cnc games where it was 1 streamer + his co caster max to cut down on the lag... why would you put multiple streamers in? We just had 2 reliable streamers and they tried to stream as many different games as possible and then just one of them would do the finals thats the best way imo... sc2 handles it a bit better so you could probably do 2 reliable streamers + co casters in 1 game and just take the right to stream away if they are asked to leave and fail to do so... its simple .
On May 08 2010 15:06 r4ptur3 wrote: Yes, players can tell anyone to gtfo. Its their game, they didnt sign a contract or anything, i dont see how this could possibly even be a point of debate.
Sorry Tewy, I didnt express myself clearly. What I meant was most spoken language on the internet (so potential viewers).
"A study on the presence of Romance languages on the Internet, published by the Latin Union in collaboration with FUNREDES, showed that as of November 2007, 45% of the webpages were written in English, 3.8% in Spanish, 4.41% in French, 2.66% in Italian, 1.39% in Portuguese, 0.28% in Romanian and 5.9% in German.[2]
Chinese is the most spoken native language on Earth, and the second most-used language by Internet users."
This is just wikipedia (link), but i can dig out more reliable sources if you want.
For anyone who thinks *the internet* is an unfair measure of which language is most understood, this site has some really relevant statistics and proves that english is most understood (even in Europe).
The problem I see is (for instance) millenium streamed 90%+ games of Razer domination while Day[9] or GLHF streamed less games. And then, it's the final and all the "lesser" streams have to leave... (YoGo was the co-caster and leaved the game).
I agree the english stream is the universal one, but if you only want this one your global coverage will not be as good.
Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...
I'm not part of Millenium, but I'm just happy I can watch lots of Zotac or Razer games when Day[9] or GLHF.tv are not streaming...
The real big problem I see in game 2 was that there was lag but no dropbox :/
Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...
Probably because he was asked to leave but didn't.
And streamers should leave if the game lags and the players ask them to, I can't see how this is even up for debate.
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
In a tournament or game, content stream is only worth a damn on the foundation that the players are playing to their ability/potential. Streamers are content deliverers, they have ZERO value by themselves, it's absurd for content deliverer to continue delivery if doing so screws up the very game play/content they are serving.
Regardless of who is in charge of the tournament, the highest priority should be to ensure the player can play in an environment without handicap that can be avoided (in this case lag). So any sensible admin should agree the player can ask any obs to gtfo.
If only 1 or 2 streamer can be kept, obviously it should be the most received and understood ones in order to benefit most amount of people. In this case.. english.
It's not even a big problem since other streamers can just stream the rep right after.
Wow Tewey your a real moron for trying to make a case that the lagger was being told to leave because he was not a TL English streamer...
It's a tournament... Money and bragging rights on the line During a sponsored event. When lag interferes with gameplay, it must be removed. Is that not comprehensible to you? -- as was mentioned by a previous thread poster, obs are guest invited to front row viewings (rather than releasing replays for casting...)
Also your a moron x2 for claiming Chinese is the most spoken language world wide. That useless fact migh be true but I don't see international events, world summit meetigs, business deals, or mergers and aquisitions being done in Chinese. Your from France and you speak fluent English, as done almost every othe person international. Thanks.
oh yeah and a slightly more ontopic- dimaga's ability to recover is phenomenal, he totally shouldve lost the blistering game, its not like his defense was even as good as Day tried to make it out to be he definitely lost a couple unnecessary queens
On May 08 2010 11:25 DeMusliM wrote: Well i'd just like to say gz Dimaga before i say anything else - he's the guy i always like to meet at the end of a tournament rather than the start - (when we were both placed in the same group at the start of this tournament, i must say i was a little torn about it). But thankfully we met again in the end! Group B ftw.
Ok, but about the obs that just wouldn't leave in the 2nd game, i cannot express how angry this made me - If i was lagging, and i was an observer - i would not hesitate for a second to leave, i class it just as common decency - i ALMOST think of it as rude to lag (as it usually hints at downloading/tabbing) but obviously at times people just can't help it which is why they should leave. Now, i waited for a long time with the game paused and i asked over 10x for people to leave and just let day9 stay, some people left - thanks for that, some people didn't and so the game was just a mess. Any observer, i don't care if your streaming - if your ruining the game, just leave - this should be implemented into everyones mindset - it is the players first, then admins, then the streamers - not the other way round. I was pretty damn mannered about it, and a player, ANY player should not have to ask 10x and get ignored - especially when it's a bloody final and these guys are holding up everyone. After this situation i was just soooo angry, i don't think i need to tell anyone here, since we're all gamers - once your frustrated you play alot worse.
What also didn't help was, some people took it upon themselves to spam me with abuse, or spam "WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" over and over again, one name i remember was "TRES" who wouldn't stop talking - then went on to flame me constantly and yes, spam my screen with garbage - unfortunately dnd doesn't work properly or bugs sometimes, and i had to play game 4 with that going on. I dunno when this became the norm, as i remember someone interfering with TLO vs White-ra also telling him what whitera was doing and when. Obviously this isn't everyone doing this, but this has become a pretty big problem without DND working correctly, and i can't remember when a minority of people became such assholes.
So to finish it off - the people that left the game when asked, thanks for respecting the players themselves and the tournament, and the viewers on the rest of the streams. As for the guys who spoilt the game - well, hope their legs fall off? %)
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are. These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.
Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game. There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.
Are you serious TeWy? it have nothing to do with if its DeMuSlims tournament or Teamliquids if players ask obs/streamers to leave the game " in any tournament " duo to lag and are willing to let a few streamers stay behind without cocasters then that should be it, obs and streamers should leave, and i assume the reason why he wanted Day9 to stay is because its an english stream which have WAAAAY way more veiwers than ANY of the other streams, Day9s stream had the majority of the veiwers on his channel
it is beyond me why they didnt remake game 2 and only invite 1-3 streamers without co casters
Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...
Probably because he was asked to leave but didn't.
And streamers should leave if the game lags and the players ask them to, I can't see how this is even up for debate.
He was not asked to leave. Day9 asked him 3 times if he was streaming and he said yes 3 times.
Strelok asked Day9 to leave in the 3rd place final and he didn't.
I just dont think it's fair to ask people to leave when they were not lagging in game 1.
Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...
Probably because he was asked to leave but didn't.
And streamers should leave if the game lags and the players ask them to, I can't see how this is even up for debate.
He was not asked to leave. Day9 asked him 3 times if he was streaming and he said yes 3 times.
Strelok asked Day9 to leave in the 3rd place final and he didn't.
I just dont think it's fair to ask people to leave when they were not lagging in game 1.
Demuslim asked all obs but Day9 to leave didn't he?
What are you suggesting, that the players need some kind of evidence of someone lagging before asking them to leave? If it's unplayable, there's a load of obs and no telling which one slows it down the only solution is to bring it down to a minimum, the required admin(s) and the main stream(in this case Day9) staying.
You can't expect the players to make the decission of which of the lesser streamers may stay and which one will have to leave. First of all it's a big hassle when they should be focusing on the game, secondly, imagine the flamefest if ONLY the German streamer was asked to leave with no actual hint of him lagging.
On May 08 2010 21:52 Nitro68 wrote: He was not asked to leave. Day9 asked him 3 times if he was streaming and he said yes 3 times.
Strelok asked Day9 to leave in the 3rd place final and he didn't.
I just dont think it's fair to ask people to leave when they were not lagging in game 1.
Day9 is the official Razer Domination streamer the others are not. They are there simply due to the goodwill of the Razer Domination staff and their place comes after Day9 it's simple as that.
According to your logic when game one doesn't lag and no dropscreen appears in game two the game should just be continued playing in lag. That's not a solution at all it's an outrageous suggestion. When it's unclear who is lagging obses should leave one by one with the ones of least importance starting first until only the official stream is left.
ANYWAYS... Awsome tournament with awsome players. The 1-4th place matches were absolutely the best finals I've seen in awhile, regardless of lag and drama.
On May 08 2010 21:52 Nitro68 wrote: He was not asked to leave. Day9 asked him 3 times if he was streaming and he said yes 3 times.
Strelok asked Day9 to leave in the 3rd place final and he didn't.
I just dont think it's fair to ask people to leave when they were not lagging in game 1.
Day9 is the official Razer Domination streamer the others are not. They are there simply due to the goodwill of the Razer Domination staff and their place comes after Day9 it's simple as that.
According to your logic when game one doesn't lag and no dropscreen appears in game two the game should just be continued playing in lag. That's not a solution at all it's an outrageous suggestion. When it's unclear who is lagging obses should leave one by one with the ones of least importance starting first until only the official stream is left.
I don't want to be outrageous, and I agree players are the priority. Your solution seems fine, first kick the obs, then co-caster (or forbid co-caster) then casters one by one.
And I just think that after some month in beta we should know which streamers do not lag.
In game 1 the obs were : - TheBest - Jaydden - GoodGameRU - YoGo - ZotacStream - Abver - Superxpm - OgerAffe
And no lag.
In game 2 one new name : - imba He did not leave the game.
I believe its not up to players to decide who should gtfo or not. It is the admin's responsibility to do so. Players should be able only to complain and its up to the admin to decide. I didnt watch the stream so I cannot tell, but any competent admin would ask all the obs and other streamers out before Day9.
On May 09 2010 02:28 Geval wrote: I believe its not up to players to decide who should gtfo or not. It is the admin's responsibility to do so. Players should be able only to complain and its up to the admin to decide. I didnt watch the stream so I cannot tell, but any competent admin would ask all the obs and other streamers out before Day9.
It would totally ruin the flow of the players if they had to wait 10-15min for the issue to be resolved by admins and would probably affect their following games. Anyway the rules are pretty clear on the matter, in the case of lag players are allowed to play without observers:
4.1 Coverage partners are allowed to observe all matches. In case of lags players are allowed to continue without further observers besides league officials.
There was terrible lag, so I see no reason why they couldn't tell observers to leave.
ZOTACpwner should right a thread on ob etiquette; he's always leaving often before getting asked or game being paused, and on his exit tells all other specs to do the same if lag continues.
On May 09 2010 07:52 zTz wrote: ZOTACpwner should right a thread on ob etiquette; he's always leaving often before getting asked or game being paused, and on his exit tells all other specs to do the same if lag continues.
Thanks for the good example buddy!
Thanks a lot . I just have many experiencs as an admin and i just want the best performance for the players and the streamers. And my computer isnt the best so i leave before the game starts if there were any problems in the previous games. And I can still do my admin job so I dont really mind. Its a bit sad that i couldnt watch the finals because i did the whole Tourney almost alone but so i could enjoy the day9 stream. And there will be konsequenz for the streamers who didnt leave the game cause the Razer stuff is the same like the ZOTAC stuff .
It might be a good idea to just have one official streamer/broadcaster and have other sites stream from the official stream. That's pretty much what is done with most sports and even in the osl/msl. It is obviously not ideal for the unofficial streamers as they can't control the camera but it definitely respects the players first and foremost. If unofficial streamers are so anxious to control the camera they can simply stream the replay after the games have been played.
*snip* Why yes I just posted my fullname and student id here by accident, lets pretend it didn't happen :p *snip*
On May 08 2010 18:11 Nitro68 wrote: The problem I see is (for instance) millenium streamed 90%+ games of Razer domination while Day[9] or GLHF streamed less games. And then, it's the final and all the "lesser" streams have to leave... (YoGo was the co-caster and leaved the game).
I agree the english stream is the universal one, but if you only want this one your global coverage will not be as good.
Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...
I'm not part of Millenium, but I'm just happy I can watch lots of Zotac or Razer games when Day[9] or GLHF.tv are not streaming...
The real big problem I see in game 2 was that there was lag but no dropbox :/
First off, bullshit. If you think it's somehow ok to drag GLHF into this mess, let me tell you that I will go to hell and back before allowing it. GLHF streamed practically all the games, except for the finals.
Except for the finals? Why yes, because I told Day[9] the finals were coming up and he wanted to stream them. Wait, what's that? Someone not opting to stream a match because there's already a high quality stream available in that language? That is madness!
Feel free to confirm it with the admins, we were scheduled and confirmed to cast, but I let them know beforehand we would decline the offer because Day[9] was streaming. Or confirm with Sean that I actually told him about the finals in the first place. Previously, his rig didn't allow for what we considered acceptable quality, but with his new setup he's been solid so we decided we wouldn't be providing nearly as much added value to the community.
I have nothing but respect for millenium, their commentators and their organization, but I definitely don't respect your stance in this matter. I'll more than gladly compare viewer numbers and we'll see who's really been bringing in the numbers. So back off and leave us out of it. We have no intention to be your justification.
That said, having experience with covering many different games. It's a privilege to stream matches like this, not a right. The most important thing is the legitimacy of the competition and if there's considerable lag, that simply isn't acceptable. If you at any point popup lagging and the players ask you to leave, you leave. There is no if's nor but's, you LEAVE right then and there. Beyond that, it should be a privilege for the players to have their matches covered. The players need to remember that they benefit greatly from exposure. Sure prize money is nice, but sponsors want players that get exposure and teams and tournaments pick up/invite players that get sponsors.
Streamers and players have (or should have) a mutually beneficial understanding. As soon as that is broken, as soon as streamers become more of a burden than added value to the community, something is going dreadfully wrong.
If there's lag, by all means players should make sure it's not on their end, for their own sake. But if it's not them, first the “non-essential” people should leave (I question they should be there to begin with) and after that streamers. It makes no sense to sour a competition because of streamers not taking their responsibility, they are no longer benefiting the community in any way, shape or form. No one wants to see a laggy match.
And when it comes to multiple streamers, you should be looking at the effect on the community. Yes there's a segment that doesn't understand certain languages, but the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, so obviously less universal streams should leave first. You're doing this as a service to the community, which is what streamers shouldn't forget. If you are asked to leave, leave. It is a joint decision between the players and the admins. If they want you out, go out.
Furthermore, I always make sure I'm in fullscreen mode and I absolutely refuse to alt-tab to minimize whatever effect I have in game. Stupidity like that is just unprofessional.
Lastly anyone that condones the behavior of the pieces of shit spamming the players should realize these people are nothing but a rotten influence on the community. They are self-centered egotistical brats who think their own viewing comfort is more important than the players, the competition and the tournament. I believe in a zero tolerance policy towards this kind of behavior.
On May 08 2010 18:11 Nitro68 wrote: The problem I see is (for instance) millenium streamed 90%+ games of Razer domination while Day[9] or GLHF streamed less games. And then, it's the final and all the "lesser" streams have to leave... (YoGo was the co-caster and leaved the game).
I agree the english stream is the universal one, but if you only want this one your global coverage will not be as good.
Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...
I'm not part of Millenium, but I'm just happy I can watch lots of Zotac or Razer games when Day[9] or GLHF.tv are not streaming...
The real big problem I see in game 2 was that there was lag but no dropbox :/
First off, bullshit. If you think it's somehow ok to drag GLHF into this mess, let me tell you that I will go to hell and back before allowing it. GLHF streamed practically all the games, except for the finals.
Except for the finals? Why yes, because I told Day[9] the finals were coming up and he wanted to stream them. Wait, what's that? Someone not opting to stream a match because there's already a high quality stream available in that language? That is madness!
Feel free to confirm it with the admins, we were scheduled and confirmed to cast, but I let them know beforehand we would decline the offer because Day[9] was streaming. Or confirm with Sean that I actually told him about the finals in the first place. Previously, his rig didn't allow for what we considered acceptable quality, but with his new setup he's been solid so we decided we wouldn't be providing nearly as much added value to the community.
I have nothing but respect for millenium, their commentators and their organization, but I definitely don't respect your stance in this matter. I'll more than gladly compare viewer numbers and we'll see who's really been bringing in the numbers. So back off and leave us out of it. We have no intention to be your justification.
That said, having experience with covering many different games. It's a privilege to stream matches like this, not a right. The most important thing is the legitimacy of the competition and if there's considerable lag, that simply isn't acceptable. If you at any point popup lagging and the players ask you to leave, you leave. There is no if's nor but's, you LEAVE right then and there. Beyond that, it should be a privilege for the players to have their matches covered. The players need to remember that they benefit greatly from exposure. Sure prize money is nice, but sponsors pick up players that get exposure and teams pick up players that get sponsors.
Streamers and players have (or should have) a mutually beneficial understanding. As soon as that is broken, as soon as streamers become more of a burden than added value to the community, something is going dreadfully wrong.
If there's lag, by all means players should make sure it's not on their end, for their own sake. But if it's not them, first the “non-essential” people should leave (I question they should be there to begin with) and after that streamers. It makes no sense to sour a competition because of streamers not taking their responsibility, they are no longer benefiting the community in any way, shape or form. No one wants to see a laggy match.
And when it comes to multiple streamers, you should be looking at the effect on the community. Yes there's a segment that doesn't understand certain languages, but the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, so obviously less universal streams should leave first. You're doing this as a service to the community, which is what streamers shouldn't forget. If you are asked to leave, leave. It is a joint decision between the players and the admins. If they want you out, go out.
Furthermore, I always make sure I'm in fullscreen mode and I absolutely refuse to alt-tab to minimize whatever effect I have in game. Stupidity like that is just unprofessional.
Lastly anyone that condones the behavior of the pieces of shit spamming the players should realize these people are nothing but a rotten influence on the community. They are self-centered egotistical brats who think their own viewing comfort is more important than the players, the competition and the tournament. I believe in a zero tolerance policy towards this kind of behavior.
I'm half surprised anyone read that whole essay, but glad you did.
On May 09 2010 22:19 tyCe wrote: It might be a good idea to just have one official streamer/broadcaster and have other sites stream from the official stream. That's pretty much what is done with most sports and even in the osl/msl. It is obviously not ideal for the unofficial streamers as they can't control the camera but it definitely respects the players first and foremost. If unofficial streamers are so anxious to control the camera they can simply stream the replay after the games have been played.
As one of the few commentators here that has done televised esports commentary, it really is not that bad to not have control of the camera. You'd be surprised. Of course you do need someone on the camera that knows what they're doing, which has been an issue at times. You definitely have less control over what you can see and talk about, and you can't just check up on things like upgrades easily, but overal you can still give insightful commentary.
Though it's obviously bad manners for any observers not to leave the game when asked to, the blame lies mostly with Blizzard.
For a game that is presented as the e-sports game, SC2's network part is very lazily done. The current streaming method is very intrusive because the game treats observers as equally important game participants, and if they have not received the latest data the game will wait for them. At the very least, it should not do that and must let the game continue uninterrupted unless it is one of the actual players that is lagging.
However much better, more flexible and scalable solution is to allow real-time streaming of in-game data, like HLTV does. It is very easy to implement, most of the required code is already there, as shown by this great chaoslauncher plugin. In short, it uses the standard SC replay viewing functionality, but tricks SC into thinking that it is playing a regular replay file, while actually the replay data is being streamed from a server in real time, where it is being pushed by one of the players as the game progresses. This effectively allows any number of users to watch the game being played using the engine, as if they were actually observing it in-game. Note that it has been done by a group of enthusiasts who did not even have access to any source code, just a small amount of clever reverse-engineering.
Their reluctance to implement something like this, along with all the other fan-requested features that are actually important for the community, while they are happily doing silly things like Facebook integration clearly shows that they, unfortunately, don't care much about supporting e-sports.
On May 11 2010 02:04 FrozenArbiter wrote: Yeah, WaaaghTV for WC3 was basically like that, and it has been requested *so* many times throughout the years SC2 has been in development.
Of course, they have barely even responded to it. I don't get why they are so reluctant to deal with these things
Hi everyone, I'm a member from the Millenium staff, SC II editor and part of the WebTV team.
I'm sorry if we didn't reply before the fact is I've just seen this thread right now. So .
On May 09 2010 01:05 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Day9 is the official Razer Domination streamer the others are not. They are there simply due to the goodwill of the Razer Domination staff and their place comes after Day9 it's simple as that.
According to your logic when game one doesn't lag and no dropscreen appears in game two the game should just be continued playing in lag. That's not a solution at all it's an outrageous suggestion. When it's unclear who is lagging obses should leave one by one with the ones of least importance starting first until only the official stream is left.
And who's that guy who told you that Day9 was the ONLY official streamer of the Razer Domination Cup ? Haven't you seen the stream list at the razer domination page ? All streams you can see on this page are ALL official streamers, Losemann himself told me we were part of the official streamers of that Razer Cup, so don't tell me its because Day9 is such a famous guy blablabla so he's the only one who can stream even if he lags I really don't agree with that and such things make me very angry.
We, the Millenium Web TV were there to stream almost everygame of the tournament during the whole month and we're not even allowed to stream the grand final when Mister Day9 has only streamed the semi finals and the finals plus he was laggin as hell 3 or 4 times. It happened the same thing with Thegunrun when he was lagging and crashed 2 or 3 times but he left at the end. Actually, when "little streams" lag, you flame them and ask them to leave directly only because they dont have the "omg-so-required-2000-viewers" plus we dont shout in english.
It's rly weird coz we don't have such problem lags when we stream other tournaments except when we tab to fix some stream problem and thats another deal that has nothing to do with lag.
Anyway, I'd like to apologize for TheBesT's behaviour if he flamed you or whatever he said.
On May 13 2010 20:59 MGreeN wrote: We, the Millenium Web TV were there to stream almost everygame of the tournament during the whole month and we're not even allowed to stream the grand final when Mister Day9 has only streamed the semi finals and the finals plus he was laggin as hell 3 or 4 times. It happened the same thing with Thegunrun when he was lagging and crashed 2 or 3 times but he left at the end. Actually, when "little streams" lag, you flame them and ask them to leave directly only because they dont have the "omg-so-required-2000-viewers" plus we dont shout in english.
Again, I highly suggest you leave us out of it, thanks.
It's not like you didn't come to us for help on how to stream. Once you get a better processor, by all means let us know.
On May 13 2010 22:18 Martijn wrote: Again, I highly suggest you leave us out of it, thanks.
I didn't mean to offend you at all, I know you're doing a great by far and I just wanted to point out that even with your 1k5 viewers, you finally left the game, thats it, no offense.
On May 13 2010 22:18 Martijn wrote: It's not like you didn't come to us for help on how to stream. Once you get a better processor, by all means let us know.
And I'm not ashamed to ask you for help on how to use Ustream coz yeah, we're not satisfied with our current quality stream (the guy alrdy got his new processor btw, thanks.).
On May 13 2010 22:31 MGreeN wrote: I didn't mean to offend you at all, I know you're doing a great by far and I just wanted to point out that even with your 1k5 viewers, you finally left the game, thats it, no offense.
And I'm not ashamed to ask you for help on how to use Ustream coz yeah, we're not satisfied with our current quality stream (the guy alrdy got his new processor btw, thanks.).
Oh, no, you didn't offend us, we just don't want to be involved. We're not here so set standards for other people. If we have issues, we take our responsibility, which we consider normal. What other people think is up to them.
However, ask yourself this, if there's lag, with no pop up and it's either a stream that has 2000 viewers or a stream that has 200 viewers, who do you think should start leaving first until it clears up? I'm sorry, but if you're going to ask me, obviously I'm going to agree with the people that say the smaller streams should step out first to see if the lag ends. Streaming is a service to the community, whomever is contributing to the most viewers has the most value.
Hmm, Sorry about this story of 'TheBest' but plz dont "ban" all Streamer Millenium for that, i think they will do a thread for Escuse about that for apoligize, but in Millenium we got so more Streamers no lagger, and if Lagger he will leave directly, so plz dont "ignore" or something for this problem Öô
But i can understand your disapoint! but plz dont generalize!