I'm wondering, will Solar and Byun focus more heavily on the cross finals or Kespa Cup or both? It matters less for Solar, but Byun's group is in a few days.
I'm really cheering for sOs here, because I feel like he should win something even if it doesn't change his chance of attending Blizzcon.
On September 25 2016 03:11 Diabolique wrote: Sad cross finals, where the result is not important for anybody ... such a pity, sOs lost to Patience in the KeSPA qualifiers ...
The result might not be important for any competitor in terms of WCS points but 17k $ is nothing to sneeze at
On September 25 2016 03:11 Diabolique wrote: Sad cross finals, where the result is not important for anybody ... such a pity, sOs lost to Patience in the KeSPA qualifiers ...
The result might not be important for any competitor in terms of WCS points but 17k $ is nothing to sneeze at
I know ... I look forward to it ... I will be of course cheering for sOs ... but it could have been so much better if one of the players (sOs) had still the chance to improve his BlizzCon chances ... while now, 3 are qualified, one is not.
You need glasses to win confirmed. Get myopic my friends. Seriously tho, this thread is created earlier than I would expect. I was waiting for the preview, if there were to be one. Also, I guess ByuN and sOs are gonna play terran? Or maybe toss given ByuN's history :D
On September 25 2016 04:41 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure this one is hosted by SPOTV so it won't be on the GSL channels and I dunno about the casters. English Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRIK4y9wcw8
Starcraft website says Wolf and Valdez are casting.
I'm surprised Byun+sOs is winning the poll for the archon match, I think the 2 zergs together have an advantage if they stick with zerg, but I don't think there's any money on that match so they might play offrace
On September 25 2016 09:13 Die4Ever wrote: I'm surprised Byun+sOs is winning the poll for the archon match, I think the 2 zergs together have an advantage if they stick with zerg, but I don't think there's any money on that match so they might play offrace
about 4,2k$ is on the line in that archon match, so it's 2.1k$ for each of the 2 winners which is basically as much as a GSL ro32 finish
On September 25 2016 09:13 Die4Ever wrote: I'm surprised Byun+sOs is winning the poll for the archon match, I think the 2 zergs together have an advantage if they stick with zerg, but I don't think there's any money on that match so they might play offrace
about 4,2k$ is on the line in that archon match, so it's 2.1k$ for each of the 2 winners which is basically as much as a GSL ro32 finish
On September 25 2016 09:13 Die4Ever wrote: I'm surprised Byun+sOs is winning the poll for the archon match, I think the 2 zergs together have an advantage if they stick with zerg, but I don't think there's any money on that match so they might play offrace
about 4,2k$ is on the line in that archon match, so it's 2.1k$ for each of the 2 winners which is basically as much as a GSL ro32 finish
They should use that money elsewhere tbh. I am not gonna lie this cross final thing is just a huge waste. Take the money from the two cross finals and you can do another bigger tournament like Kespa Cup.
Not gonna complain too much right now though because i wanna watch some korean sc2 again, but still -.-
On September 25 2016 09:13 Die4Ever wrote: I'm surprised Byun+sOs is winning the poll for the archon match, I think the 2 zergs together have an advantage if they stick with zerg, but I don't think there's any money on that match so they might play offrace
about 4,2k$ is on the line in that archon match, so it's 2.1k$ for each of the 2 winners which is basically as much as a GSL ro32 finish
They should use that money elsewhere tbh. I am not gonna lie this cross final thing is just a huge waste. Take the money from the two cross finals and you can do another bigger tournament like Kespa Cup.
Not gonna complain too much right now though because i wanna watch some korean sc2 again, but still -.-
I kinda agree. The two cross finals were rather unnecessary, another big tourney would indeed have been far more interesting.
On September 25 2016 09:13 Die4Ever wrote: I'm surprised Byun+sOs is winning the poll for the archon match, I think the 2 zergs together have an advantage if they stick with zerg, but I don't think there's any money on that match so they might play offrace
about 4,2k$ is on the line in that archon match, so it's 2.1k$ for each of the 2 winners which is basically as much as a GSL ro32 finish
They should use that money elsewhere tbh. I am not gonna lie this cross final thing is just a huge waste. Take the money from the two cross finals and you can do another bigger tournament like Kespa Cup.
Not gonna complain too much right now though because i wanna watch some korean sc2 again, but still -.-
yea I agree :/
should've just had another tournament like the kespa cup and seed the 8 players (s1+s2 finalists) into the ro32
On September 25 2016 04:41 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure this one is hosted by SPOTV so it won't be on the GSL channels and I dunno about the casters. English Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRIK4y9wcw8
Korea must have a lot of bandwidth, putting the stream up so early.
On September 25 2016 15:03 chipmonklord17 wrote: Wait neosteel frames is still an upgrade?
Yeah. And it's used just as often as it was used in WoL.
Has it ever actually been used? I honestly don't recall
Some terrans went for it in the really really late game after researching everything else. There were some bad cheeses involving it. At WCS Montreal Kelazhur went for it in the late game, but as he didn't have any bunkers, and he didn't load SCVs into his PF idk why he researched it.
On September 25 2016 15:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On September 25 2016 15:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On September 25 2016 15:03 chipmonklord17 wrote: Wait neosteel frames is still an upgrade?
Yeah. And it's used just as often as it was used in WoL.
Has it ever actually been used? I honestly don't recall
Some terrans went for it in the really really late game after researching everything else. There were some bad cheeses involving it. Recently I saw some foreign terran go for it, but as he didn't have any bunkers, and he didn't load SCVs into his PF idk why he researched it.
instead of giving 2 more space for marines maybe it should make a bunker do full damage with 2 marines and move it to mid/late game... or try something else
On September 25 2016 15:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On September 25 2016 15:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On September 25 2016 15:03 chipmonklord17 wrote: Wait neosteel frames is still an upgrade?
Yeah. And it's used just as often as it was used in WoL.
Has it ever actually been used? I honestly don't recall
Some terrans went for it in the really really late game after researching everything else. There were some bad cheeses involving it. Recently I saw some foreign terran go for it, but as he didn't have any bunkers, and he didn't load SCVs into his PF idk why he researched it.
instead of giving 2 more space for marines maybe it should make a bunker do full damage with 2 marines and move it to mid/late game... or try something else
Unused upgrades aren't really a problem needing to be solved though. Apial sensors never harmed BW, and Neosteel Frames and Caduceus Reactor don't harm SCII.
On September 25 2016 15:19 Noonius wrote: I have no idea about the wcs standings, any one of them has any stake in regards of going to blizzcon?
sOs can't go to blizzcon, the rest are definitely going. Pretty sure Dark has a fuck ton of points and that this is as meaningless for him as it is sOs. I think the other two could change seeds depending on this and the kespa cup
On September 25 2016 16:06 GuiltyJerk wrote: I don't get why interceptors cost money... Broodlings don't, carrier builds might actually be useful if interceptors didn't cost as much as a zergling
honestly it seems hard to balance carriers, I don't blame blizzard for not buffing them
imagine if they were even slightly too strong, it'd be so annoying and boring, to play with/against or even just spectate
On September 25 2016 16:06 GuiltyJerk wrote: I don't get why interceptors cost money... Broodlings don't, carrier builds might actually be useful if interceptors didn't cost as much as a zergling
That's a good point. Interceptors costing money made sense in BW. But not in SC2. Imagine disruptor shots costing money too (like BW reaver scarabs)!
On September 25 2016 16:06 GuiltyJerk wrote: I don't get why interceptors cost money... Broodlings don't, carrier builds might actually be useful if interceptors didn't cost as much as a zergling
Broodlings don't shoot up at range and do range-stacked DPS.
Even if you exclude release interceptors it would be a bit insane.
On September 25 2016 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Rain burning sOs "The build was poorly optimized, I think he made it up on the spot. Or maybe that's just his skill level :D"
Poorly optimized? Making carriers is in itself sub-optimal.
On September 25 2016 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Rain burning sOs "The build was poorly optimized, I think he made it up on the spot. Or maybe that's just his skill level :D"
do korean progamers shitpost on their forums like some foreigners do?
On September 25 2016 16:06 GuiltyJerk wrote: I don't get why interceptors cost money... Broodlings don't, carrier builds might actually be useful if interceptors didn't cost as much as a zergling
Broodlings don't shoot up at range and do range-stacked DPS.
Even if you exclude release interceptors it would be a bit insane.
The broodling impact does damage in addition to the broodling nibbling on whatever it fights, I just hate that an end tier unit gets basically zero play outside of trick builds when people are dicking around (and of course 4v4 :D:D:D)
On September 25 2016 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Rain burning sOs "The build was poorly optimized, I think he made it up on the spot. Or maybe that's just his skill level :D"
do korean progamers shitpost on their forums like some foreigners do?
Tempest being more viable than carriers in late game does suggest that carrier is underpowered (especially since the cost of interceptors is negligible at that stage).
On September 25 2016 16:16 RKC wrote: Tempest being more viable than carriers in late game does suggest that carrier is underpowered (especially since the cost of interceptors is negligible at that stage).
On September 25 2016 16:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote: What an awful build. Even if he wiped out half the mineral lines he'd still lose. This build loses to a roach warren.
It wins against those people on ladder who can't split their army to save their life.
On September 25 2016 16:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On September 25 2016 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Rain burning sOs "The build was poorly optimized, I think he made it up on the spot. Or maybe that's just his skill level :D"
do korean progamers shitpost on their forums like some foreigners do?
Rain probably said it while casting?
Rain is truly a next level innovator, he uplifted Korea from shitposting to shitcasting.
On September 25 2016 16:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On September 25 2016 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Rain burning sOs "The build was poorly optimized, I think he made it up on the spot. Or maybe that's just his skill level :D"
do korean progamers shitpost on their forums like some foreigners do?
Rain probably said it while casting?
Rain is truly a next level innovator, he uplifted Korea from shitposting to shitcasting.
HuK became an Overwatch caster so foreign scene still wins.
On September 25 2016 16:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On September 25 2016 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Rain burning sOs "The build was poorly optimized, I think he made it up on the spot. Or maybe that's just his skill level :D"
do korean progamers shitpost on their forums like some foreigners do?
Rain probably said it while casting?
Rain is truly a next level innovator, he uplifted Korea from shitposting to shitcasting.
Funny how entertaining Rain the caster seems to be as opposed to Rain the player.
(Don't get me wrong, I love Rain the player, and often lament on how underrated and unloved he is, at least on TL)
On September 25 2016 16:35 Edpayasugo wrote: Not sure why but none of the streams are working for me on my PC, although twitch is fine on Ipad, does anyone know how soon Dark is starting please?
twitch isn't working on my PC either but the Afreeca Global stream is fine. i don't know when the match is starting, but right now the casters are talking (unfortunately).
On September 25 2016 16:35 Edpayasugo wrote: Not sure why but none of the streams are working for me on my PC, although twitch is fine on Ipad, does anyone know how soon Dark is starting please?
twitch isn't working on my PC either but the Afreeca Global stream is fine. i don't know when the match is starting, but right now the casters are talking (unfortunately).
On September 25 2016 16:35 Edpayasugo wrote: Not sure why but none of the streams are working for me on my PC, although twitch is fine on Ipad, does anyone know how soon Dark is starting please?
twitch isn't working on my PC either but the Afreeca Global stream is fine. i don't know when the match is starting, but right now the casters are talking (unfortunately).
Watch Youtube one. It has HD but Twitch is locked to medium.
On September 25 2016 16:33 Seeker wrote: sOs is terrible... How did this guy win BlizzCon twice...?
Seeker really? How did SKT win Proleague last year? How did INnoVation win 2 GSL?
Why are you going after me and SKT?
He's just pointing out your logic makes no sense. People get into slumps, especially when transitioning from one expansion to another. The better question in sOs' case would be how the fuck he got to the GSL finals, he hasn't been playing that well in LotV imo
On September 25 2016 16:33 Seeker wrote: sOs is terrible... How did this guy win BlizzCon twice...?
Seeker really? How did SKT win Proleague last year? How did INnoVation win 2 GSL?
Why are you going after me and SKT?
Because what you said is stupid.
On September 25 2016 16:49 Durnuu wrote: The better question in sOs' case would be how the fuck he got to the GSL finals, he hasn't been playing that well in LotV imo
Yes. He's looked nowhere near as good as during his best times in HotS even once this year.
On September 25 2016 16:35 Edpayasugo wrote: Not sure why but none of the streams are working for me on my PC, although twitch is fine on Ipad, does anyone know how soon Dark is starting please?
twitch isn't working on my PC either but the Afreeca Global stream is fine. i don't know when the match is starting, but right now the casters are talking (unfortunately).
Watch Youtube one. It has HD but Twitch is locked to medium.
On September 25 2016 16:35 Edpayasugo wrote: Not sure why but none of the streams are working for me on my PC, although twitch is fine on Ipad, does anyone know how soon Dark is starting please?
twitch isn't working on my PC either but the Afreeca Global stream is fine. i don't know when the match is starting, but right now the casters are talking (unfortunately).
Watch Youtube one. It has HD but Twitch is locked to medium.
On September 25 2016 16:33 Seeker wrote: sOs is terrible... How did this guy win BlizzCon twice...?
Seeker really? How did SKT win Proleague last year? How did INnoVation win 2 GSL?
Why are you going after me and SKT?
He's just pointing out your logic makes no sense. People get into slumps, especially when transitioning from one expansion to another. The better question in sOs' case would be how the fuck he got to the GSL finals, he hasn't been playing that well in LotV imo
GSL was horrible in Season 2. Never did sOs show dominating plays (and arguably, neither did Byun).
SSL, for some reason, had more quality (I even thought Byun played so much better in the group matches when he got knocked out by Classic).
On September 25 2016 17:00 Hall0wed wrote: Let me just make 10 queens and I'm untouchable. Awesome game design.
queens are quite good, transfuse is crazy in those numbers, maybe it should have a cooldown?
I feel like at that point in the game, by the time you get 10 transfuses off then you already have a good shot at holding off the attack. Could be something to mess with but I'm weary.
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Watch if you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Average Game (Vote): ★★★★ - Good Game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the Best Games this year
"LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
all LR threads become balance whine threads. u didnt know this by now?
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
all LR threads become balance whine threads. u didnt know this by now?
Of course I do, they just weren't this bad. It's like half the people have down syndrome or something.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
all LR threads become balance whine threads. u didnt know this by now?
Of course I do, they just weren't this bad. It's like half the people have down syndrome or something.
On September 25 2016 18:18 Ramiz1989 wrote: "LUL Ultras, LUL Ultras" and Dark loses the game while Byun is over 150 supply, it is actually hilarious reading TL comments these days, it is like a slower twitch chat, like one twitch chat wasn't cancerous enough.
all LR threads become balance whine threads. u didnt know this by now?
Of course I do, they just weren't this bad. It's like half the people have down syndrome or something.
youre being nice
It is just the word LUL that pisses me off, it reminds me of twitch chat too much.
It was a very close serie between the two best player of their races, we had extremely good games, and terrans are whining every time a Marines dies. jeez.
Congratz to both player, could have been either way. In the end it would have been nice to have a TvZ in the final though, but we will see if Dark gets a revenge for the SSL final.
I'd much rather Zerg be less dependent on the absurdly insanely ridiculously strong Ultralisk. That was a good game, but seriously, no one enjoys playing against them once they get to that stage, and the game shouldn't be balanced around that either. Broodlord Infestor felt better, even.
I think Byun is still the better player. Dark played well, though.
On September 25 2016 18:40 Blargh wrote: I'd much rather Zerg be less dependent on the absurdly insanely ridiculously strong Ultralisk. That was a good game, but seriously, no one enjoys playing against them once they get to that stage, and the game shouldn't be balanced around that either. Broodlord Infestor felt better, even.
I think Byun is still the better player. Dark played well, though.
I think most Zergs feel the same. The midgame vs Terran currently also feels very frustrating, just scraping by and hoping you don't make a little mistake and die until you get Ultras out.
On September 25 2016 18:57 merin wrote: do you guys have problems with the sound lagging behind the picture? Both twitch and afreeca seems to have that problem atm... any solution?
On September 25 2016 18:57 merin wrote: do you guys have problems with the sound lagging behind the picture? Both twitch and afreeca seems to have that problem atm... any solution?
Youtube is the solution. It's on the first page somwhere.
On September 25 2016 18:57 merin wrote: do you guys have problems with the sound lagging behind the picture? Both twitch and afreeca seems to have that problem atm... any solution?
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
Even then Solar is the better ZvZ player
Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
Even then Solar is the better ZvZ player
Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
Even then Solar is the better ZvZ player
Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
On September 25 2016 19:11 Seeker wrote: Damn it... He's exhausted because the match against ByuN was too difficult... While Solar just breezed past sOs and had plenty of rest time... Ugh...
Even then Solar is the better ZvZ player
Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
Yeah. I'm just saying, would be a dick move to have ByuN - who played the same exhaustive series as Dark, mind you - play an extra match for nothing so Dark can rest.
On September 25 2016 19:12 Elentos wrote: [quote] Even then Solar is the better ZvZ player
Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
Yeah. I'm just saying, would be a dick move to have ByuN - who played the same exhaustive series as Dark, mind you - play an extra match for nothing so Dark can rest.
If there was money on the line, then I'm sure ByuN would want to play. If it's just to let Dark rest, then I agree, it's not fair for ByuN. Maybe a showmatch featuring two other players?
On September 25 2016 19:12 Seeker wrote: [quote] Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
Yeah. I'm just saying, would be a dick move to have ByuN - who played the same exhaustive series as Dark, mind you - play an extra match for nothing so Dark can rest.
If there was money on the line, then I'm sure ByuN would want to play. If it's just to let Dark rest, then I agree, it's not fair for ByuN. Maybe a showmatch featuring two other players?
Would be an option certainly. Obviously this close to KeSPA Cup you can't have everyone, but you could still get a fun match together.
On September 25 2016 19:12 Seeker wrote: [quote] Says who?
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
Yeah. I'm just saying, would be a dick move to have ByuN - who played the same exhaustive series as Dark, mind you - play an extra match for nothing so Dark can rest.
If there was money on the line, then I'm sure ByuN would want to play. If it's just to let Dark rest, then I agree, it's not fair for ByuN. Maybe a showmatch featuring two other players?
I literally just said that the post Ele is replying to :o
On September 25 2016 19:13 PepsiMaxxxx wrote: [quote]
The results.
What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
Yeah. I'm just saying, would be a dick move to have ByuN - who played the same exhaustive series as Dark, mind you - play an extra match for nothing so Dark can rest.
If there was money on the line, then I'm sure ByuN would want to play. If it's just to let Dark rest, then I agree, it's not fair for ByuN. Maybe a showmatch featuring two other players?
I literally just said that the post Ele is replying to :o
True. You mentioned foreigners. Other than Neeb, who's in Korea right now? A show match between Neeb and X would have been awesome.
Man... If only Solar vs sOs had gone all the way to the last set. Then all the matches tonight (except the archon mode showmatch) would have gone to the very last set.
On September 25 2016 19:14 Seeker wrote: [quote] What results?
Possibly the SSL finals?
Kay
But they still should have given Dark some more time to recover, agree
in this case I wouldn't mind a 3rd place match
If Blizzard provided prize money for the 3rd place match that could be an option.
a show match would be fine too, maybe even throw in a foreigner
Yeah. I'm just saying, would be a dick move to have ByuN - who played the same exhaustive series as Dark, mind you - play an extra match for nothing so Dark can rest.
If there was money on the line, then I'm sure ByuN would want to play. If it's just to let Dark rest, then I agree, it's not fair for ByuN. Maybe a showmatch featuring two other players?
I literally just said that the post Ele is replying to :o
True. You mentioned foreigners. Other than Neeb, who's in Korea right now? A show match between Neeb and X would have been awesome.
On September 25 2016 20:03 CruelZeratul wrote: So if you Blinding Cloud Lurkers and stand on top of it, it will still do it's normal AoE I guess? But not when you stand slightly away from it?
Well, each series ended the way I didn't want it to. Fuck this I feel like Solar could have taken this with the first Viper push easily if he just used Blinding Cloud and moved in with his Lurkers.
On September 25 2016 20:07 Noonius wrote: still the most boring mirror
TvT is terrible. It's always tankivac/marine vs tankivac/marine. At least with ZvZ, we can see variety. Now that I think about it, PvP is terrible too. It's just adept vs adept...
On September 25 2016 20:07 Noonius wrote: still the most boring mirror
TvT is terrible. It's always tankivac/marine vs tankivac/marine. At least with ZvZ, we can see variety. Now that I think about it, PvP is terrible too. It's just adept vs adept...
On September 25 2016 20:07 Noonius wrote: still the most boring mirror
TvT is terrible. It's always tankivac/marine vs tankivac/marine. At least with ZvZ, we can see variety. Now that I think about it, PvP is terrible too. It's just adept vs adept...
ZvZ stopped being terrible the moment it stopped being just Roach wars. No matter how micro intense and positional the mirror match-up is, having more options, builds and army compositions is better. Right now I will always watch ZvZ rather than TvTs with 3 units.
On September 25 2016 20:07 Noonius wrote: still the most boring mirror
TvT is terrible. It's always tankivac/marine vs tankivac/marine. At least with ZvZ, we can see variety. Now that I think about it, PvP is terrible too. It's just adept vs adept...
ZvZ stopped being terrible the moment it stopped being just Roach wars. No matter how micro intense and positional the mirror match-up is, having more options, builds and army compositions is better. Right now I will always watch ZvZ rather than TvTs with 3 units.
Yeah, agreed. ZvZ used to be the most predictable but really isn't any longer.
I was watching vod on Youtube, but since the match ended, they made the channel private. Anywhere I can watch this? or I need to wait for the youtube channel?
On September 25 2016 20:22 ejozl wrote: I was watching vod on Youtube, but since the match ended, they made the channel private. Anywhere I can watch this? or I need to wait for the youtube channel?
they are gonna upload the game on their youtube channel as always
On September 25 2016 20:22 ejozl wrote: I was watching vod on Youtube, but since the match ended, they made the channel private. Anywhere I can watch this? or I need to wait for the youtube channel?
On September 25 2016 20:22 ejozl wrote: I was watching vod on Youtube, but since the match ended, they made the channel private. Anywhere I can watch this? or I need to wait for the youtube channel?
On September 25 2016 20:07 Noonius wrote: still the most boring mirror
TvT is terrible. It's always tankivac/marine vs tankivac/marine. At least with ZvZ, we can see variety. Now that I think about it, PvP is terrible too. It's just adept vs adept...
TvT has a decent amount of mech in Korea
Also it's totally too late to save my Liquibets, but thanks for trying, Dark. Maybe getting these 3 right will mean good things for my KeSPA Cup LBs tho.
Game 3 of ByuN vs Dark was so good it caused Seeker to make a recommendation poll. Just gotta find it... E:
Poll: Recommend Dark vs ByuN Game 3?
★★★★★ - One of the Best Games this year (23)
61%
★★★★ - Good Game (9)
24%
★ - Do not watch no matter what (4)
11%
★★ - Watch if you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
★★★ - Average Game (1)
3%
38 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Dark vs ByuN Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Watch if you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Average Game (Vote): ★★★★ - Good Game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the Best Games this year
Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
On September 25 2016 23:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
Is it? Imo in both cases the SSL runner-up beating the GSL champion and then getting their revenge against the SSL champion was way more hype as a storyline.
Also that's not really a problem with the Cross Finals themselves. If ByuN beat Dark it would have been different. It's the champions' fault they didn't prove their dominance by winning.
On September 25 2016 23:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
Is it? Imo in both cases the SSL runner-up beating the GSL champion and then getting their revenge against the SSL champion was way more hype as a storyline.
Also that's not really a problem with the Cross Finals themselves. If ByuN beat Dark it would have been different. It's the champions' fault they didn't prove their dominance by winning.
I think it is. You just crowned your GSL/SSL champion and soon after somebody else wins against them the crossfinals. It kinda devalues GSL/SSL imo. And yeah sure it is the fault of the champions, but at that top lvl it is simply that volatile. Imo it would be better if only the actual champions would play and crown the overall winner of the season.
Or even better, remove the crossfinals and have another kespa cup.
On September 25 2016 23:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
Is it? Imo in both cases the SSL runner-up beating the GSL champion and then getting their revenge against the SSL champion was way more hype as a storyline.
Also that's not really a problem with the Cross Finals themselves. If ByuN beat Dark it would have been different. It's the champions' fault they didn't prove their dominance by winning.
I think it is. You just crowned your GSL/SSL champion and soon after somebody else wins against them the crossfinals. It kinda devalues GSL/SSL imo. And yeah sure it is the fault of the champions, but at that top lvl it is simply that volatile. Imo it would be better if only the actual champions would play and crown the overall winner of the season.
Or even better, remove the crossfinals and have another kespa cup.
But Blizzard doesn't support Global Events financially. So removing the Cross Finals does nothing for a KeSPA Cup.
The Cross Finals are just their way of getting away with no 3rd season of Korean SC2 relatively cheap anyway.
Also devaluing really? They already make each other look silly. Our SSL champion finished 25th-32nd in GSL mind you, the league most people would say was the weaker one this season. The season 1 Cross Finals champion didn't get through Code A. And Wolf even said that, even though Dark's performance was great, ultimately it was pretty meaningless because he didn't win one of the leagues, he only won some money and was the best player of the day.
People should know there's barely any stability in an environment where players have to juggle multiple competitions. So will this mini tournament really make people change their minds about the players involved? Or will they carry on with their opinions, still thinking ByuN is the best player in the world or whatever? That seems more likely to me. For me personally the only one who had a chance to change my mind about him was sOs and he didn't manage to.
In the end though I think they should have just brought back the Season Finals from 2013.
On September 25 2016 22:26 Damusson wrote: No spoiler tags on results? That just ruined it for me
I almost got caught by it when I scrolled down for vods. I ended up going to the YouTube esportsTV page, but I got spoiled anyways because the vods were not organized well (finals videos mixed in earlier than ro4 matches).
OP or mods, please edit the thread to have spoiler tags.
On September 25 2016 23:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
Is it? Imo in both cases the SSL runner-up beating the GSL champion and then getting their revenge against the SSL champion was way more hype as a storyline.
Also that's not really a problem with the Cross Finals themselves. If ByuN beat Dark it would have been different. It's the champions' fault they didn't prove their dominance by winning.
I think it is. You just crowned your GSL/SSL champion and soon after somebody else wins against them the crossfinals. It kinda devalues GSL/SSL imo. And yeah sure it is the fault of the champions, but at that top lvl it is simply that volatile. Imo it would be better if only the actual champions would play and crown the overall winner of the season.
Or even better, remove the crossfinals and have another kespa cup.
But Blizzard doesn't support Global Events financially. So removing the Cross Finals does nothing for a KeSPA Cup.
The Cross Finals are just their way of getting away with no 3rd season of Korean SC2 relatively cheap anyway.
Also devaluing really? They already make each other look silly. Our SSL champion finished 25th-32nd in GSL mind you, the league most people would say was the weaker one this season. The season 1 Cross Finals champion didn't get through Code A. And Wolf even said that, even though Dark's performance was great, ultimately it was pretty meaningless because he didn't win one of the leagues, he only won some money and was the best player of the day.
People should know there's barely any stability in an environment where players have to juggle multiple competitions. So will this mini tournament really make people change their minds about the players involved? Or will they carry on with their opinions, still thinking ByuN is the best player in the world or whatever? That seems more likely to me. For me personally the only one who had a chance to change my mind about him was sOs and he didn't manage to.
In the end though I think they should have just brought back the Season Finals from 2013.
Well then Blizzard should support kespa cup instead of cross finals. Don't get me wrong, for me personally this cross finals means basically nothing. But as a concept i think it is bad that you basically let the finalists of the two leagues play and thus kinda crown the champ of the season (that is the basic concept i would think). In both cases a runner up won, which basically shows that anybody could have been champion of GSL/SSL anyway. It would be a lot better if only the champions would play it out, that way we only have the storyline of one player "winning" the whole season. Season finals had the same problem, you don't wanna crown a new champ right after the main leagues ended. That's kinda meh for storylines. (unless we really have one player who wins all, which is quite rare)
I guess it's not the biggest deal, but these cross finals feel underwhelming for multiple reasons and in a scene where the money is already an issue i don't feel like you should spend it that way :/
On September 26 2016 04:56 stuchiu wrote: The essential problem with cross finals is they are like the old 2013 WCS Season finals except with way less participants.
Well the wcs season finals were better in the way that it felt more like a real tournament, but had the same problem that you essentially crown the "season champion" who most likely is not a champion of the main tournaments. That's kinda underwhelming. Dear was the only exception iirc.
Q: Nerchio has recently defeated many Koreans in a foreign tournament and shown confidence. What are your thoughts on that?
A: I looked up the VODs, but I don't see any difference(from past foreigners). As far as I know the tournament was held in European server, and he won't be much of a threat if he plays in Korea.
It seems Dark isn't aware that the games were played on neutral server.
It seems Dark isn't aware that the games were played on neutral server.
He always seemed to me a little bit cocky
I don't know if it's Korean thing or Dark but they almost always 'assume' these online tournaments give ping disadvantage to Koreans.
Dark is the best zerg player in the world but it is kinda lame that the tournament organizer's efforts to make it fair for both Koreans and foreigners gets ignored by prejudice.
Q: Nerchio has recently defeated many Koreans in a foreign tournament and shown confidence. What are your thoughts on that?
A: I looked up the VODs, but I don't see any difference(from past foreigners). As far as I know the tournament was held in European server, and he won't be much of a threat if he plays in Korea.
It seems Dark isn't aware that the games were played on neutral server.
which is interesting because he played in one of the king of the hills
On September 25 2016 23:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
Is it? Imo in both cases the SSL runner-up beating the GSL champion and then getting their revenge against the SSL champion was way more hype as a storyline.
Also that's not really a problem with the Cross Finals themselves. If ByuN beat Dark it would have been different. It's the champions' fault they didn't prove their dominance by winning.
I think it is. You just crowned your GSL/SSL champion and soon after somebody else wins against them the crossfinals. It kinda devalues GSL/SSL imo. And yeah sure it is the fault of the champions, but at that top lvl it is simply that volatile. Imo it would be better if only the actual champions would play and crown the overall winner of the season.
Or even better, remove the crossfinals and have another kespa cup.
But Blizzard doesn't support Global Events financially. So removing the Cross Finals does nothing for a KeSPA Cup.
The Cross Finals are just their way of getting away with no 3rd season of Korean SC2 relatively cheap anyway.
Also devaluing really? They already make each other look silly. Our SSL champion finished 25th-32nd in GSL mind you, the league most people would say was the weaker one this season. The season 1 Cross Finals champion didn't get through Code A. And Wolf even said that, even though Dark's performance was great, ultimately it was pretty meaningless because he didn't win one of the leagues, he only won some money and was the best player of the day.
People should know there's barely any stability in an environment where players have to juggle multiple competitions. So will this mini tournament really make people change their minds about the players involved? Or will they carry on with their opinions, still thinking ByuN is the best player in the world or whatever? That seems more likely to me. For me personally the only one who had a chance to change my mind about him was sOs and he didn't manage to.
In the end though I think they should have just brought back the Season Finals from 2013.
Well then Blizzard should support kespa cup instead of cross finals. Don't get me wrong, for me personally this cross finals means basically nothing. But as a concept i think it is bad that you basically let the finalists of the two leagues play and thus kinda crown the champ of the season (that is the basic concept i would think). In both cases a runner up won, which basically shows that anybody could have been champion of GSL/SSL anyway. It would be a lot better if only the champions would play it out, that way we only have the storyline of one player "winning" the whole season. Season finals had the same problem, you don't wanna crown a new champ right after the main leagues ended. That's kinda meh for storylines. (unless we really have one player who wins all, which is quite rare)
I guess it's not the biggest deal, but these cross finals feel underwhelming for multiple reasons and in a scene where the money is already an issue i don't feel like you should spend it that way :/
On September 26 2016 04:56 stuchiu wrote: The essential problem with cross finals is they are like the old 2013 WCS Season finals except with way less participants.
Well the wcs season finals were better in the way that it felt more like a real tournament, but had the same problem that you essentially crown the "season champion" who most likely is not a champion of the main tournaments. That's kinda underwhelming. Dear was the only exception iirc.
If you only have the champions play there's no point in having the event because you're done after like 90 minutes tho. And I would argue that one of the key points of the Cross Finals - and the reason the winner gets 1000 WCS points - is likely to help out the runner-ups in the race for Blizzcon.
And yes, Dear was technically the only one who actually won both. But let's be honest INnoVation only lost his GSL finals by accident and he proved it a week later. And 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Or so I heard.
The other one was Maru going out against aLive and Scarlett which I'm sure in hindsight Noonius still finds highly delightful. Actually that season none of the champions got through the group stage.
But at least the Cross Finals this year weren't total stomps. In 2013 every Season Final was a 4-0.
Q: Nerchio has recently defeated many Koreans in a foreign tournament and shown confidence. What are your thoughts on that?
A: I looked up the VODs, but I don't see any difference(from past foreigners). As far as I know the tournament was held in European server, and he won't be much of a threat if he plays in Korea.
It seems Dark isn't aware that the games were played on neutral server.
which is interesting because he played in one of the king of the hills
He only had to play KR vs KR against Dear though. So he probably didn't care about the rest
On September 25 2016 23:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Damn i wanted to watch it by doing an all nighter and then i fell asleep -.-
GJ Dark!
It shows the problem i have with cross finals though, now the SSL and GSL champ lost and somebody else won (like in season 1), that's kinda anti hype tbh
Is it? Imo in both cases the SSL runner-up beating the GSL champion and then getting their revenge against the SSL champion was way more hype as a storyline.
Also that's not really a problem with the Cross Finals themselves. If ByuN beat Dark it would have been different. It's the champions' fault they didn't prove their dominance by winning.
I think it is. You just crowned your GSL/SSL champion and soon after somebody else wins against them the crossfinals. It kinda devalues GSL/SSL imo. And yeah sure it is the fault of the champions, but at that top lvl it is simply that volatile. Imo it would be better if only the actual champions would play and crown the overall winner of the season.
Or even better, remove the crossfinals and have another kespa cup.
But Blizzard doesn't support Global Events financially. So removing the Cross Finals does nothing for a KeSPA Cup.
The Cross Finals are just their way of getting away with no 3rd season of Korean SC2 relatively cheap anyway.
Also devaluing really? They already make each other look silly. Our SSL champion finished 25th-32nd in GSL mind you, the league most people would say was the weaker one this season. The season 1 Cross Finals champion didn't get through Code A. And Wolf even said that, even though Dark's performance was great, ultimately it was pretty meaningless because he didn't win one of the leagues, he only won some money and was the best player of the day.
People should know there's barely any stability in an environment where players have to juggle multiple competitions. So will this mini tournament really make people change their minds about the players involved? Or will they carry on with their opinions, still thinking ByuN is the best player in the world or whatever? That seems more likely to me. For me personally the only one who had a chance to change my mind about him was sOs and he didn't manage to.
In the end though I think they should have just brought back the Season Finals from 2013.
Well then Blizzard should support kespa cup instead of cross finals. Don't get me wrong, for me personally this cross finals means basically nothing. But as a concept i think it is bad that you basically let the finalists of the two leagues play and thus kinda crown the champ of the season (that is the basic concept i would think). In both cases a runner up won, which basically shows that anybody could have been champion of GSL/SSL anyway. It would be a lot better if only the champions would play it out, that way we only have the storyline of one player "winning" the whole season. Season finals had the same problem, you don't wanna crown a new champ right after the main leagues ended. That's kinda meh for storylines. (unless we really have one player who wins all, which is quite rare)
I guess it's not the biggest deal, but these cross finals feel underwhelming for multiple reasons and in a scene where the money is already an issue i don't feel like you should spend it that way :/
On September 26 2016 04:56 stuchiu wrote: The essential problem with cross finals is they are like the old 2013 WCS Season finals except with way less participants.
Well the wcs season finals were better in the way that it felt more like a real tournament, but had the same problem that you essentially crown the "season champion" who most likely is not a champion of the main tournaments. That's kinda underwhelming. Dear was the only exception iirc.
If you only have the champions play there's no point in having the event because you're done after like 90 minutes tho. And I would argue that one of the key points of the Cross Finals - and the reason the winner gets 1000 WCS points - is likely to help out the runner-ups in the race for Blizzcon.
And yes, Dear was technically the only one who actually won both. But let's be honest INnoVation only lost his GSL finals by accident and he proved it a week later. And 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Or so I heard.
The other one was Maru going out against aLive and Scarlett which I'm sure in hindsight Noonius still finds highly delightful. Actually that season none of the champions got through the group stage.
But at least the Cross Finals this year weren't total stomps. In 2013 every Season Final was a 4-0.
Well yeah if only the champions play then the event doesn't produce enoug content. I am sure you could find a way to fill it somehow though. Showmatches, maybe have a third place match with the runner ups (even though in general i dislike that haha), etc. I mean the runner ups already get more points than anyone who wasn't a runner up, makes little sense to me to do it because of that :D If you wanna put more importance on second place you can do that just fine in the main tournament.
Sure Innovation should have won the gsl, but he didn not, so it stays at 1 out of 3 It's how sc2 works, the best players can beat each other depending on day form, etc. Personally i would prefer storylines which are about big champions, that way an upset actually is one. If you have the GSL champ and SSL champ and none of them wins the cross finals a short time after then it doesn't paint the most stable hierarchy. (maybe most people actually prefer new champion after new champion, would seem weird to me though tbh?)
I mean i take the cross finals because it is more korean content, but it feels like it shouldn't be a thing. At least not in that execution. The dramatic structure is off imo.
On September 26 2016 07:30 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean the runner ups already get more points than anyone who wasn't a runner up, makes little sense to me to do it because of that :D If you wanna put more importance on second place you can do that just fine in the main tournament.
The runner-up gets 2800 points, maybe 3000 if it's season 1 and they get seeded into the next one. You can see with sOs that just being the runner-up isn't enough points. Now, you could say "But sOs didn't do anything in the other Korean tournaments and wouldn't have made Blizzcon even if he won", which is a valid point. But Stats, who did quite a bit better, would be fighting for his Blizzcon life in KeSPA Cup without the points from the Cross Finals. So these points actually matter in the end.
And realistically, how many interesting showmatches could you produce for the Cross Finals? With no prize money. The first CF was one day after a Proleague round finals, this one was two days before KeSPA Cup. How many pros will you find, willing and able to do this showmatch, for no gain, and who the fans want to see play?
Also I don't really get your point about storylines. On the one hand you say you would want your champions to appear big and uncontested for as long as possible, preferably having them lose as few matches against non-champions as possible. On the other hand you admitted that the playing field at the top is incredibly close and that anyone can beat anyone. So you're asking for a story about something that doesn't exist in Starcraft 2 right now.
You want the system to pretend big, dominant champions exist, even though you know the result of the finals could be the opposite if they replay on any other day. I mean, I can't deny that there is appeal to made-up stories, but I'm sure in this case it would be more interesting if the story actually happened.
Oh and one last thing. I got up early to watch this for the sole reason of watching Dark play ByuN in a best of 5. The only chance to see that outside of Blizzcon - where there's no guarantee it'll happen. And I wasn't disappointed. So yeah, I will gladly take dethroned champions and whatever story comes with them if it means I get to see matches I wanted to see.
On September 26 2016 07:30 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean the runner ups already get more points than anyone who wasn't a runner up, makes little sense to me to do it because of that :D If you wanna put more importance on second place you can do that just fine in the main tournament.
The runner-up gets 2800 points, maybe 3000 if it's season 1 and they get seeded into the next one. You can see with sOs that just being the runner-up isn't enough points. Now, you could say "But sOs didn't do anything in the other Korean tournaments and wouldn't have made Blizzcon even if he won", which is a valid point. But Stats, who did quite a bit better, would be fighting for his Blizzcon life in KeSPA Cup without the points from the Cross Finals. So these points actually matter in the end.
And realistically, how many interesting showmatches could you produce for the Cross Finals? With no prize money. The first CF was one day after a Proleague round finals, this one was two days before KeSPA Cup. How many pros will you find, willing and able to do this showmatch, for no gain, and who the fans want to see play?
Also I don't really get your point about storylines. On the one hand you say you would want your champions to appear big and uncontested for as long as possible, preferably having them lose as few matches against non-champions as possible. On the other hand you admitted that the playing field at the top is incredibly close and that anyone can beat anyone. So you're asking for a story about something that doesn't exist in Starcraft 2 right now.
You want the system to pretend big, dominant champions exist, even though you know the result of the finals could be the opposite if they replay on any other day. I mean, I can't deny that there is appeal to made-up stories, but I'm sure in this case it would be more interesting if the story actually happened.
Oh and one last thing. I got up early to watch this for the sole reason of watching Dark play ByuN in a best of 5. The only chance to see that outside of Blizzcon - where there's no guarantee it'll happen. And I wasn't disappointed. So yeah, I will gladly take dethroned champions and whatever story comes with them if it means I get to see matches I wanted to see.
The point is that if you think the point distribution doesn't value runner ups enough you don't need to create a different tournament where there is the potential to get more points ONLY for them. You simply change the amount of points they get in the main tournaments. At the end of the day the relative point distribution is what matters for players. Regarding that Stats example: Getting 2nd and 5-8th got him 4k points. Patience got 3600 for being both times 3th/4th. Stats already got more points for a similar achievement because 2nd apaprently is valued more relatively speaking. Then he also had the chance to get even more points in the cross finals, something the other players cannot do. I don't think the system is good in this case at all tbh. (this gets even more clear when looking at Dear)
I mean sure i get that it would be hard to fill the evening if only the champs play. I am not gonna deny that, you are right. I still think it would be better dramatically.
That's how storylines work though. Mvp being the greatest of the greatest "having a two year reign" is a made up concept as well. You could say that the truth is that anybody can beat anybody and we should accept that. But if we follow that logic to an extreme and don't even have seeds for the next season so everyone has to qualify for each season, we simply might get a new champion each season (or even worse we won't even have the common "s class" players playing in each one) There always is a thin line between having the fairest system possible and trying to get certain storylines going. At the end of the day it's still an entertainment product. So yeah i don't neccessarily want to test my new crowned champion the next day to see him potentially lose (extreme example) because that storyline simply sucks.
And yeah i also wanted to watch the cross finals because Byun vs Dark looked very interesting on paper and in general korean sc2 is on hiatus atm. That's the positive aspect of it, more content. I still think we could get better content instead of it for the same amount of money
On September 26 2016 04:56 stuchiu wrote: The essential problem with cross finals is they are like the old 2013 WCS Season finals except with way less participants.
and those were super hype. Personally the first two finals were the best tournaments of 2013 for me
On September 26 2016 04:56 stuchiu wrote: The essential problem with cross finals is they are like the old 2013 WCS Season finals except with way less participants.
and those were super hype. Personally the first two finals were the best tournaments of 2013 for me
especially season 2 finals was one of the best tournaments ever. probably the tournament with the most entertaining games. INnoVation vs TaeJa, TaeJa vs Rain, MC vs Jaedong, Scarlett vs Bomber; then the foreigner storylines with Scarlett and Naniwa both making it into the playoffs and Bomber finally winning a big tournament. that tournament was just amazing.
I don't think the Cross Finals devalues the Starleagues. In a year's time or longer, it is the Starleague champions who will burn into people's memories.
I have even trouble remembering the past KeSPA Cup champions (Dark & soO?).
But these two seasons of Cross Finals have produced some high quality games (Byun v Dark was like 5x better than the GSL final itself). Of course having more KeSPA Cups will be better. But I rather have the Cross Finals than nothing at all.
On September 26 2016 11:16 RKC wrote: I don't think the Cross Finals devalues the Starleagues. In a year's time or longer, it is the Starleague champions who will burn into people's memories.
I have even trouble remembering the past KeSPA Cup champions (Dark & soO?).
But these two seasons of Cross Finals have produced some high quality games (Byun v Dark was like 5x better than the GSL final itself). Of course having more KeSPA Cups will be better. But I rather have the Cross Finals than nothing at all.
Can't believe forgot the greatest final of all time SoS-MKP, never before and never after have we seen such a strategic masterclass. SoS genius brain analysing the style of MarineKing and then coming up with the perfect strategy "building a Zealot!".
And then MKP adapt to the situation by doing, and I could not believe it, doing absolutely nothing and losing the series.
On September 26 2016 11:16 RKC wrote: I don't think the Cross Finals devalues the Starleagues. In a year's time or longer, it is the Starleague champions who will burn into people's memories.
I have even trouble remembering the past KeSPA Cup champions (Dark & soO?).
But these two seasons of Cross Finals have produced some high quality games (Byun v Dark was like 5x better than the GSL final itself). Of course having more KeSPA Cups will be better. But I rather have the Cross Finals than nothing at all.
Can't believe forgot the greatest final of all time SoS-MKP, never before and never after have we seen such a strategic masterclass. SoS genius brain analysing the style of MarineKing and then coming up with the perfect strategy "building a Zealot!".
And then MKP adapt to the situation by doing, and I could not believe it, doing absolutely nothing and losing the series.
On September 26 2016 08:36 The_Red_Viper wrote: So yeah i don't neccessarily want to test my new crowned champion the next day to see him potentially lose (extreme example) because that storyline simply sucks.
This was 2 weeks after the SSL finals. How long are we supposed to have to wait until the champions get tested? KeSPA Cup starts tomorrow with ByuN's group. Would 2 weeks and 2 days have been significantly better? And we're in the off-season now. Beside the Cross Finals and KeSPA Cup, there is nothing until Blizzcon. Supposing those didn't exist, or the CF is just the champions playing each other and both fail the qualifiers for KeSPA Cup (which I'm sure you wouldn't really care about because it was online), going into Blizzcon, what are ByuN and Solar? Big champions in a 2 month reign, or players who haven't faced offline competition in 2 months? I'd go with the second option.
The point is, a champion who doesn't have to prove their dominance isn't an interesting storyline to me.
On September 26 2016 08:03 The_Red_Viper wrote: Ok will check out both series then. Not really interested in Solar vs sOs tbh^^
That is the only one, I watched ... but it looked like if sOs did not take it seriously, he was just trying new, unexpected builds ... the first one was quite entertaining and it worked, the other ones got demolished hard by Solar.
On September 26 2016 14:38 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: I thought korean Zergs were not good?
Who have you been talking too? Foreigners who think they know better? Thing with korean zergs in the history of sc2 is there is always one or two super good ones. Everyone else sucks. Awhile ago no one knew how to deal with terran, but rogue fixed that. Not to mention dark is a badass, and solar just played a bunch of toss.
On September 26 2016 04:56 stuchiu wrote: The essential problem with cross finals is they are like the old 2013 WCS Season finals except with way less participants.
and those were super hype. Personally the first two finals were the best tournaments of 2013 for me
I absolutely LOVED the seasons finals as well. I really liked this format and I think it could still work and generate tons of hype (top 8 from WCS and top 8 from KR leagues for instance).
On September 26 2016 08:36 The_Red_Viper wrote: So yeah i don't neccessarily want to test my new crowned champion the next day to see him potentially lose (extreme example) because that storyline simply sucks.
This was 2 weeks after the SSL finals. How long are we supposed to have to wait until the champions get tested? KeSPA Cup starts tomorrow with ByuN's group. Would 2 weeks and 2 days have been significantly better? And we're in the off-season now. Beside the Cross Finals and KeSPA Cup, there is nothing until Blizzcon. Supposing those didn't exist, or the CF is just the champions playing each other and both fail the qualifiers for KeSPA Cup (which I'm sure you wouldn't really care about because it was online), going into Blizzcon, what are ByuN and Solar? Big champions in a 2 month reign, or players who haven't faced offline competition in 2 months? I'd go with the second option.
The point is, a champion who doesn't have to prove their dominance isn't an interesting storyline to me.
The problem in this case isn't necessarily that the cross finals happens soon after the main tournaments, it's that it's basically crowning the best player of the season. The champion of the champions. When a runner up wins this it's just a bad storyline and actively shows how volatile it is at the top. There is no reason to design it that way other than having more content.
Kespa Cup is at least a new tournament with 16 players. If the GSL/SSL champ doesn't win this one it's at least not directly related to the starleagues. This is a lot about appearance because in the end there isn't much difference, i understand that. But it still matters i think.
See i am not saying i wanna have total artificially created big champions, etc. As i said before there is a thin line to walk. I also want my champions to defend their status. I don't think it is necessarly a good idea to do it like the cross finals though. It just feels different having a completely new tournament going on where a lot of top players have to fight through it. Cross finals places the best 4 players of starleagues into "semis" and the chance we get a runner up winning is pretty high. So you either look at it and say it's a worthless tournament (which most people seem to do? Including me; worthless as in prestige) Or you look at it and pretend Stats and Dark winning it means they are the champions of the season because they won the "cross finals". Both situations i am not happy with tbh. I guess we should be happy about extra korean content, but it could be much, much better
On September 27 2016 00:51 The_Red_Viper wrote: and actively shows how volatile it is at the top.
It's just showing the scene how it is. And yes, having more content is why the Cross Finals exist in the first place. An excuse to better get away with only 2 seasons of Korean Starcraft.
I'm not saying the Cross Finals as they exist are the ideal solution in a perfect world. But we're not in that perfect world. Sure, they could do more. They could do better with the Korean scene. But I think the WCS changes for this year showed pretty clearly that that was not their focus.
And with that I'm pretty happy with how CFs turned out.
Yeah well i already have fulfilled my negativity workload for today i guess. Let's just say i am unhappy with it and i think for most people it's just a little extra content without much meaning.
With that being said though, Dark vs Byun was pretty good. Need to still watch the finals later today