Don't believe in Neeb at all, but he'll probably prove me wrong with how good at predictions I am. As for the bet, I'd go TY 4-1 Neeb with a proxy galore.
If I'm being objective, I think TY will pummel him. But there is real upset potential. TY choking or Neeb winning in loong lategames wouldn't be huge suprise.
Although PvT right now isn't exactly known for its lategame
I personally believe that TY will win this game, if only because Neeb is weak to proxies. But I want him to win because America is great, and I want revenge for TY beating sOs 2-0. I wish the best of luck to the both of them. Head: TY 4-2 Neeb Heart: Neeb 4-3 TY
Mostly because I want as little resistance as possible for Maru's 3rd GSL championship. I don't need the stress of Maru having potential difficulty in the finals!
On September 05 2018 18:25 HolydaKing wrote: Anything can happen. The last few PvT games I've seen looked Protoss favored, so I'll go with Neeb winning tbh.
Ehh I don't know, Terrans have been proxying like crazy vs Protoss lately and TY has been of the biggest abusers. Plus, Neeb is weak to cheese.
On September 05 2018 18:25 HolydaKing wrote: Anything can happen. The last few PvT games I've seen looked Protoss favored, so I'll go with Neeb winning tbh.
Ehh I don't know, Terrans have been proxying like crazy vs Protoss lately and TY has been of the biggest abusers. Plus, Neeb is weak to cheese.
To be fair I have not watched ladder games at all, just some online cup games. We'll see I guess!
On September 05 2018 18:25 HolydaKing wrote: Anything can happen. The last few PvT games I've seen looked Protoss favored, so I'll go with Neeb winning tbh.
Ehh I don't know, Terrans have been proxying like crazy vs Protoss lately and TY has been of the biggest abusers. Plus, Neeb is weak to cheese.
To be fair I have not watched ladder games at all, just some online cup games. We'll see I guess!
On September 05 2018 18:25 HolydaKing wrote: Anything can happen. The last few PvT games I've seen looked Protoss favored, so I'll go with Neeb winning tbh.
Ehh I don't know, Terrans have been proxying like crazy vs Protoss lately and TY has been of the biggest abusers. Plus, Neeb is weak to cheese.
To be fair I have not watched ladder games at all, just some online cup games. We'll see I guess!
TY reverse swept Classic 2 days ago with proxy reactor cyclones every game.
On September 05 2018 18:48 Ziggy wrote: Also, Tasteless denigrating Dunkin Donuts is something I can't stand for, where would we, as a species, be without Boston Kreme?
its funny how americans hammer their major brands and we idolize them in other countries, dunkin donuts is amazing.
On September 05 2018 18:48 Ziggy wrote: Also, Tasteless denigrating Dunkin Donuts is something I can't stand for, where would we, as a species, be without Boston Kreme?
its funny how americans hammer their major brands and we idolize them in other countries, dunkin donuts is amazing.
It's also possible that those chains have differing quality depending on the country they're in. Every American says McDonald's is inhuman garbage food but as someone who lives in Europe it's pretty okay here for what it is.
Maybe the EU doesn't let them get away with corner-cutting bullshit.
On September 05 2018 18:48 Ziggy wrote: Also, Tasteless denigrating Dunkin Donuts is something I can't stand for, where would we, as a species, be without Boston Kreme?
its funny how americans hammer their major brands and we idolize them in other countries, dunkin donuts is amazing.
It's also possible that those chains have differing quality depending on the country they're in. Every American says McDonald's is inhuman garbage food but as someone who lives in Europe it's pretty okay here for what it is.
I'm pretty sure Maccy D's is equally shite everywhere
On September 05 2018 18:48 Ziggy wrote: Also, Tasteless denigrating Dunkin Donuts is something I can't stand for, where would we, as a species, be without Boston Kreme?
its funny how americans hammer their major brands and we idolize them in other countries, dunkin donuts is amazing.
It's also possible that those chains have differing quality depending on the country they're in. Every American says McDonald's is inhuman garbage food but as someone who lives in Europe it's pretty okay here for what it is.
I'm pretty sure Maccy D's is equally shite everywhere
On September 05 2018 18:48 Ziggy wrote: Also, Tasteless denigrating Dunkin Donuts is something I can't stand for, where would we, as a species, be without Boston Kreme?
its funny how americans hammer their major brands and we idolize them in other countries, dunkin donuts is amazing.
It's also possible that those chains have differing quality depending on the country they're in. Every American says McDonald's is inhuman garbage food but as someone who lives in Europe it's pretty okay here for what it is.
Maybe the EU doesn't let them get away with corner-cutting bullshit.
For sure the EU has a much better control over the ingredients they can use, I've heard of this before quite a few times.
On September 05 2018 18:48 Ziggy wrote: Also, Tasteless denigrating Dunkin Donuts is something I can't stand for, where would we, as a species, be without Boston Kreme?
its funny how americans hammer their major brands and we idolize them in other countries, dunkin donuts is amazing.
It's also possible that those chains have differing quality depending on the country they're in. Every American says McDonald's is inhuman garbage food but as someone who lives in Europe it's pretty okay here for what it is.
Maybe the EU doesn't let them get away with corner-cutting bullshit.
For sure the EU has a much better control over the ingredients they can use, I've heard of this before quite a few times.
Yeah, in the states the corporations can just pay off legislators to let them get away with putting all kinds of shit in food. Why do you think everyone who's grown up elsewhere and moved to the States complains that their bread (yes the bread, staple food in many countries and cultures) is filled with sugar and almost impossible to eat as a result? Not to mention obesity stats and whatnot...
Not trying to turn this into a flame war though so I'll stop here.
On September 05 2018 19:04 IshinShishi wrote: and now we see why mech doesnt work against toss, because they walk in, unsplit, and kill your tanks.
He broke the main tank line with a split attack, the second attack had like 3 tanks
It was TY that made the mistake of splitting his army, against zerg/terran it was a win, against toss they walk in and kill your tanks. Overall I think TY played much better mechanically with an inferior strategy.
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
On September 05 2018 19:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:07 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
I don't think TY knew about the 4th, didn't he split upon scanning it?
On September 05 2018 19:10 Meiya wrote: Wow, can Neeb really do this?
He's mechanically better than TY, but TY definitely has more depth to his play
We don't know that yet. Neeb has only defended and hasn't tried to take initiative. Neeb has shown really deep play back when he was dominating WCS. When he slumped he started doing the same thing over and over again
On September 05 2018 19:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:07 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
I don't think TY knew about the 4th, didn't he split upon scanning it?
On September 05 2018 19:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:07 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
I don't think TY knew about the 4th, didn't he split upon scanning it?
Correct
There is no way he didn't know about the 4th even if he hadn't seen it.
On September 05 2018 19:14 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:13 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:11 IshinShishi wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:07 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
I don't think TY knew about the 4th, didn't he split upon scanning it?
Correct
There is no way he didn't know about the 4th even if he hadn't seen it.
He didn't know for a very long time. He sat next to it for the better part of 2 minutes without even sending a scout there.
On September 05 2018 19:14 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:13 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:11 IshinShishi wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:07 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
I don't think TY knew about the 4th, didn't he split upon scanning it?
Correct
There is no way he didn't know about the 4th even if he hadn't seen it.
Then why did he ignore it for the longest time, then split his army the instant he scanned?
He had a marine waiting at the other 4th location for a while, it's likely he expected Neeb to expand there instead.
On September 05 2018 19:14 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:13 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:11 IshinShishi wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:07 Fango wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:05 The_Templar wrote: Widow mines aren't that great against protoss, huh?
Neither are tanks I guess
TY was not splitting his army very well. Neeb picked him apart
He isn't supposed to split at all, he needed to continue to leap frog to Neeb's 4th with the entire army, and then the 3rd. Overall Neeb just moved his deathball here and there while TY tried to attack multiple points at once with little potential because a huge portion of his army was tied to defence.
Also, Neeb isn't better than TY mechanically, not even close.
I don't think TY knew about the 4th, didn't he split upon scanning it?
Correct
There is no way he didn't know about the 4th even if he hadn't seen it.
Then why did he ignore it for the longest time, then split his army the instant he scanned?
He had a marine waiting at the other 4th location for a while, it's likely he expected Neeb to expand there instead.
I think he didn't knew it too, his immediate response was bad and his recovery from the main battle "loss" was terrible as he also mismicroed his two medivacs at the 4th, he was caught off guard for sure.
On September 05 2018 19:10 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
On September 05 2018 19:10 Meiya wrote: Wow, can Neeb really do this?
He's mechanically better than TY, but TY definitely has more depth to his play
We don't know that yet. Neeb has only defended and hasn't tried to take initiative. Neeb has shown really deep play back when he was dominating WCS. When he slumped he started doing the same thing over and over again
On September 05 2018 19:44 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: This game is insane. Definitely going to be one of the best this year
Not even close.
It was a great game with a lot of swings in momentum and epic fights. A few key mistakes, but that happens. TY thought he couldn't fight that army and tried to escape. Neeb was too in position
TY threw his lead by doomdropping the main too much, then lost it by losing his medivacs full of units. But then Neeb throws the game by not camping a nexus.
Both players throwing actually made a draw. Perfect balance
On September 05 2018 19:48 Poopi wrote: Disruptors have bad design TY should have won that :/
deserved to lose when he picked up his whole army in the face of protoss
just lucky Neeb decided to make an equally big blunder
TY thought he couldn't fight the army and made a split second decision under pressure to try to escape. It was a blunder, but not something that is impossible to happen
On September 05 2018 19:50 Fango wrote: TY threw his lead by doomdropping the main too much, then lost it by losing his medivacs full of units. But then Neeb throws the game by not camping a nexus.
Both players throwing actually made a draw. Perfect balance
TY didn't need to retreat in the first doom drop, it was like he was trying to make moves that would be optimal but not needed and messed them up badly.
Maybe TY should try and pick of robos to um.. disrupt disruptor production more, that could've tipped the balance in some of these battles a bit more in his favor. He had several opportunities do do that but killing economy is great too so not sure. Anyone?
On September 05 2018 19:48 Poopi wrote: Disruptors have bad design TY should have won that :/
deserved to lose when he picked up his whole army in the face of protoss
just lucky Neeb decided to make an equally big blunder
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
That's why I love disruptors. They allow both players to have a way to come back into the game. TY could have microed better and countered Neeb's disruptors better, but Neeb played a style of a thousand small cuts. It used to be Terran could micro circles around Protoss and Protoss had no real way to micro back
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, TY also didn't win.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
pretty sure BW's design is literally perfect
And let's remember Raynors Law: Any Terran Action Is Complex and Amazing, Any Protoss Action is BS.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
Lol what
Disruptors are baby mode compared to reavers. Just saying for all the young kids joined in 2012 and 2013.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
Hey that's no fair, I thought we were ignoring facts.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
pretty sure BW's design is literally perfect
Pathing included.
Yeah, should give Disruptor shots BW reaver pathing. :D
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
Hey that's no fair, I thought we were ignoring facts.
I purposefuly ignored reavers' presence in 2 other matchups. But what do I know, I'm just a little kid, unlike certain old veterans here who solved both BW and SC2 metagame 15 years ago.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
Hey that's no fair, I thought we were ignoring facts.
I purposefuly ignored reavers' presence in 2 other matchups. But what do I know, I'm just a little kid, unlike certain old veterans here who solved both BW and SC2 metagame 15 years ago.
Yes you should actually watch some pro matches before opening your mouth trying to trash talk with objectively incorrect views against people who actually know what they're talking about.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Being substantially better than his opponent? Wow it's like you've never watched esports before.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
Hey that's no fair, I thought we were ignoring facts.
I purposefuly ignored reavers' presence in 2 other matchups. But what do I know, I'm just a little kid, unlike certain old veterans here who solved both BW and SC2 metagame 15 years ago.
Yes you should actually watch some pro matches before opening your mouth trying to trash talk with objectively incorrect views against people who actually know what they're talking about.
I'm glad you've confirmed that everyone who doesn't agree with you is "objectively incorrect".
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Being substantially better than his opponent? Wow it's like you've never watched esports before.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
Hey that's no fair, I thought we were ignoring facts.
I purposefuly ignored reavers' presence in 2 other matchups. But what do I know, I'm just a little kid, unlike certain old veterans here who solved both BW and SC2 metagame 15 years ago.
Yes you should actually watch some pro matches before opening your mouth trying to trash talk with objectively incorrect views against people who actually know what they're talking about.
You objectively don't know what you're talking about.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Honestly? By being that much better , I'd bet on around 100 eapm over Neeb.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
Hey that's no fair, I thought we were ignoring facts.
I purposefuly ignored reavers' presence in 2 other matchups. But what do I know, I'm just a little kid, unlike certain old veterans here who solved both BW and SC2 metagame 15 years ago.
Yes you should actually watch some pro matches before opening your mouth trying to trash talk with objectively incorrect views against people who actually know what they're talking about.
I'm glad you've confirmed that everyone who doesn't agree with you is "objectively incorrect".
Literally just watch BW and see what the facts are. I didn't say reavers are bad, just that disruptors do similar or better damage much more easily and don't require the arcane bullshit prayers to the pathing gods to do *any damage whatsoever*.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Honestly? By being that much better , I'd bet on around 100 eapm over Neeb.
While I fully agree that was a loss-worthy move, if it hadn't been for disruptors TY would've won that set 7 minutes earlier lol.
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Being substantially better than his opponent? Wow it's like you've never watched esports before.
Ah yes, that must be it.
Lol you're Heartland the shitposter who blindly worships Protoss. I remember reading your posts back when I was on my old account. Guess I'm wasting my time lol.
On September 05 2018 19:55 dankobanana wrote: [quote]
but they exist and I'm pretty sure TY has heard of them before. he played worse in total and deserved a loss. by the chance of a stupid game mechanic, he got a draw.
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Being substantially better than his opponent? Wow it's like you've never watched esports before.
Ah yes, that must be it.
Lol you're Heartland the shitposter who blindly worships Protoss. I remember reading your posts back when I was on my old account. Guess I'm wasting my time lol.
An account I am sure was not banned for being utterly obnoxious.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
On September 05 2018 19:57 207aicila wrote: [quote]
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Being substantially better than his opponent? Wow it's like you've never watched esports before.
Ah yes, that must be it.
Lol you're Heartland the shitposter who blindly worships Protoss. I remember reading your posts back when I was on my old account. Guess I'm wasting my time lol.
An account I am sure was not banned for being utterly obnoxious.
It wasn't banned no.
Also you're implying that saying objectively incorrect things in a snarky tone isn't obnoxious. That's the youngster's Le Leddit way of arguing though, I see.
On September 05 2018 19:57 207aicila wrote: [quote]
By the chance of Neeb (who had double the army supply) not realizing he should've defended his nexus.
For what it's worth Terran building float has been around in Starcraft much longer than stupid 1 unit kills 20 supply in 1 shot terrible terrible damage syndrome design.
i'm pretty sure reavers have been around as long as flying buildings
And I'm pretty sure from over a decade of playing and watching BW (sadly I don't play anymore) that reavers were never anywhere near as effective as disruptors, due to scarab pathing and also the fact that scarabs cost money which would make them tricky in the basetrade situations of SC2.
But sure, let's ignore facts.
disruptor, a niche unit that sees very little usage compared to storm and collossus in every matchup
vs
reaver, the unit that destroys Terran in half the televise PvTs
There's pro matches where even a Deep Six Terran can hold his own against reavers better than you often see in disruptor TvP in SC2. Just saying.
So how on earth could Ty win against this op unit?!
Being substantially better than his opponent? Wow it's like you've never watched esports before.
Ah yes, that must be it.
Lol you're Heartland the shitposter who blindly worships Protoss. I remember reading your posts back when I was on my old account. Guess I'm wasting my time lol.
An account I am sure was not banned for being utterly obnoxious.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
I think I'll take your advice.
For someone probably older than 20 you're quite immature
This series is exactly what I wanted out of Neeb vs Rogue. Aggression, normal games, close series, and proxies. We even had a draw and we're only on game 5 (6)! This has been amazing
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
I think I'll take your advice.
For someone probably older than 20 you're quite immature
I don't respect it when people who have no idea what they're talking about pretend that they do, and I doubly don't respect it when it's something that I personally happen to know quite a bit about and have spent a lot of time on.
Sorry if this upsets you, basically I despise ignorance and the Leddit way of pretending that just because you are more sarcastic that means somehow you are right lol.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
I think I'll take your advice.
For someone probably older than 20 you're quite immature
I don't respect it when people who have no idea what they're talking about pretend that they do, and I doubly don't respect it when it's something that I personally happen to know quite a bit about and have spent a lot of time on.
Sorry if this upsets you, basically I despise ignorance and the Leddit way of pretending that just because you are more sarcastic that means somehow you are right lol.
And on what basis do you think you know more than them? Just because you're older/watched for longer? that's stupid
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
I think I'll take your advice.
For someone probably older than 20 you're quite immature
I don't respect it when people who have no idea what they're talking about pretend that they do, and I doubly don't respect it when it's something that I personally happen to know quite a bit about and have spent a lot of time on.
Sorry if this upsets you, basically I despise ignorance and the Leddit way of pretending that just because you are more sarcastic that means somehow you are right lol.
And on what basis do you think you know more than them? Just because you're older/watched for longer? that's stupid
Professional matches speak for themselves. Literally just watch them instead of arguing with me and you will see that you are wrong.
It was insanely hype whenever a top Protoss controlled their reavers well enough for 2-3 shots to do as well as disruptors do in SC2. That's why Bisu's micro is legendary, because he could make his goons and reavers do things that no one else could do as consistently, not even other pros.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Korean bias. Not enough NA fanboys here.
Bruh it's 7 (or 4) in the morning.
But they are making esports history!
But it's still 7 (or 7:30 or 4) in the morning.
Euros must have it nice for watching SC2 to be honest.
Not since NA stole the Saturday GSL matches. I will never forgive that schedule change.
Stole?? Saturday GSL is way too late for me to watch in NA.
As far as I remember the reason to have the matches earlier on Saturday was to allow NA people to watch easier. Not sure which coast though. Anyways, the matches are too early now for EU.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Korean bias. Not enough NA fanboys here.
Bruh it's 7 (or 4) in the morning.
But they are making esports history!
But it's still 7 (or 7:30 or 4) in the morning.
Euros must have it nice for watching SC2 to be honest.
Not since NA stole the Saturday GSL matches. I will never forgive that schedule change.
Stole?? Saturday GSL is way too late for me to watch in NA.
As far as I remember the reason to have the matches earlier on Saturday was to allow NA people to watch easier. Not sure which coast though. Anyways, the matches are too early now for EU.
Might be easier to watch in NA if you're either on west coast or willing to stay up until 2:30am, but it is definitely way too late for me.
On September 05 2018 20:06 DreamOen wrote: So much terrran bias here lol. Arent protoss watching this match or?
Enjoying the match, rather than bothering with these pointless arguments .
Yeah you may be right. The arguments are pointless when these 20 year olds who joined in 2013 think they know BW better than people who literally watched proleague and starleague all the time for most of the game's existence.
I think I'll take your advice.
For someone probably older than 20 you're quite immature
I don't respect it when people who have no idea what they're talking about pretend that they do, and I doubly don't respect it when it's something that I personally happen to know quite a bit about and have spent a lot of time on.
Sorry if this upsets you, basically I despise ignorance and the Leddit way of pretending that just because you are more sarcastic that means somehow you are right lol.
And on what basis do you think you know more than them? Just because you're older/watched for longer? that's stupid
Professional matches speak for themselves. Literally just watch them instead of arguing with me and you will see that you are wrong.
It was insanely hype whenever a top Protoss controlled their reavers well enough for 2-3 shots to do as well as disruptors do in SC2. That's why Bisu's micro is legendary, because he could make his goons and reavers do things that no one else could do as consistently, not even other pros.
the original post wasn't about how hard disruptors are to use, it was, and i quote
On September 05 2018 20:09 sneakyfox wrote: So did TY just figure out Neeb's weak spot?
Nah. He rammed home the natural on that base. Good use of map. Not necessarily indictive of how the other maps will play
If you're the real Feardragon it'd be nice for the staff to give you a Commentator badge or something.
Haha I'm not. It's a funny story. This username was literally from a random name generator when I played WoW in like 2008. I kept the username. The fact Feardragon's last name is Pareek is just really funny coincidence
On September 05 2018 20:09 sneakyfox wrote: So did TY just figure out Neeb's weak spot?
Nah. He rammed home the natural on that base. Good use of map. Not necessarily indictive of how the other maps will play
If you're the real Feardragon it'd be nice for the staff to give you a Commentator badge or something.
Haha I'm not. It's a funny story. This username was literally from a random name generator when I played WoW in like 2008. I kept the username. The fact Feardragon's last name is Pareek is just really funny coincidence
I'm sure you could've lied your way in. Have more confidence.
Also good to know. :D
I'm gonna blame my mistake on the fact that it's SEVEN IN THE MORNING FUCK I AM NOT A MORNING PERSON.
On September 05 2018 20:21 TheDougler wrote: I think that game was doable for Neeb, the gold base gave him a chance.
He had 3 orbitals finished before Neeb even started the gold (which would have been his second base). I don't think there was any chance there unless TY didn't do anything for 5 minutes.
On September 05 2018 20:09 sneakyfox wrote: So did TY just figure out Neeb's weak spot?
Nah. He rammed home the natural on that base. Good use of map. Not necessarily indictive of how the other maps will play
If you're the real Feardragon it'd be nice for the staff to give you a Commentator badge or something.
Haha I'm not. It's a funny story. This username was literally from a random name generator when I played WoW in like 2008. I kept the username. The fact Feardragon's last name is Pareek is just really funny coincidence
I'm sure you could've lied your way in. Have more confidence.
Also good to know. :D
I'm gonna blame my mistake on the fact that it's SEVEN IN THE MORNING FUCK I AM NOT A MORNING PERSON.
God, I WISH it was 7. I'm in Alberta. 5:24 AM here, not fun. You darn easterners, first you take our oil, and now you take our sunlight!
On September 05 2018 20:09 sneakyfox wrote: So did TY just figure out Neeb's weak spot?
Nah. He rammed home the natural on that base. Good use of map. Not necessarily indictive of how the other maps will play
If you're the real Feardragon it'd be nice for the staff to give you a Commentator badge or something.
Haha I'm not. It's a funny story. This username was literally from a random name generator when I played WoW in like 2008. I kept the username. The fact Feardragon's last name is Pareek is just really funny coincidence
I'm sure you could've lied your way in. Have more confidence.
Also good to know. :D
I'm gonna blame my mistake on the fact that it's SEVEN IN THE MORNING FUCK I AM NOT A MORNING PERSON.
God, I WISH it was 7. I'm in Alberta. 5:24 AM here, not fun. You darn easterners, first you take our oil, and now you take our sunlight!
On September 05 2018 20:21 TheDougler wrote: I think that game was doable for Neeb, the gold base gave him a chance.
He had 3 orbitals finished before Neeb even started the gold (which would have been his second base). I don't think there was any chance there unless TY didn't do anything for 5 minutes.
Yea, just tastosis trying to make it seen like Neeb had any chance for the entertainment.
On September 05 2018 20:31 ReachTheSky wrote: Looks like koreans showing once against they are superior. Guess the forced narrative that foreigners have caught up can finally die already.
what the hell are you talking about? semifinals GSL and kespa cup won by neeb and you don't think of him equal to the koreans? wtf?
On September 05 2018 20:31 ReachTheSky wrote: Looks like koreans showing once against they are superior. Guess the forced narrative that foreigners have caught up can finally die already.
On September 05 2018 20:34 Myrddrael wrote: When did SC2 become a proxy fest? Super boring and seems like there's no risk at all vs Protoss?
There's no good counter to every branch a proxy rax can go into for Protoss. Reaper FE also seem to be significantly weaker in the meta with a threat of 2gate. So proxy is really the best way to open in this matchup.
The 8th spot for WCS korea is really contested. Gumiho, Trap, sOs, Dear, INnoVation, soO, and Solar are all within 1500 points of eachother and can potentially take it with supertournament.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
Recently got back into SC2, Having seen all the proxies recently i have two questions
1) could protoss open with some sort of forge build to dump a cannon at the front for protection? or does this delay everything else too much
2) is it possible that a change where buildings have limited float gas that recharges slowly over time to add a punishment to proxies? this way you can still move buildings about but the gas limits floating indefinitely
On September 05 2018 20:55 La1 wrote: Recently got back into SC2, Having seen all the proxies recently i have two questions
1) could protoss open with some sort of forge build to dump a cannon at the front for protection? or does this delay everything else too much
2) is it possible that a change where buildings have limited float gas that recharges slowly over time to add a punishment to proxies? this way you can still move buildings about but the gas limits floating indefinitely
Cannons don't do anything against proxies. If you only make one the reaper can just jump past it (or go poke the edges if you make it in your mineral line) and then you take free damage because you have no units to kill it/make it go away. And then the cyclone(s) follow-up just kills the cannon with ease.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
I agree. Its not because Neeb was on the other side of this today but because I think this is fundamentally unfair
On September 05 2018 20:55 La1 wrote: Recently got back into SC2, Having seen all the proxies recently i have two questions
1) could protoss open with some sort of forge build to dump a cannon at the front for protection? or does this delay everything else too much
2) is it possible that a change where buildings have limited float gas that recharges slowly over time to add a punishment to proxies? this way you can still move buildings about but the gas limits floating indefinitely
Cannons don't do anything against proxies. If you only make one the reaper can just jump past it (or go poke the edges if you make it in your mineral line) and then you take free damage because you have no units to kill it/make it go away. And then the cyclone(s) follow-up just kills the cannon with ease.
I didn't realise cyclones rinse cannons, i was thinking a pvz style build but instead of a second gate a forge and a cannon at the front and a few defensive units in the main but then if the cannon doesn't stop cyclones that's the whole build gone, and its pointless having a cannon in your natural as banshees / reapers etc can sit on the outside of it
after seeing so many protoss just "die" to what is a pretty standard pressure with no hard impact to T i think P may have to re-think their entire build process
On September 05 2018 20:39 Fango wrote: The 8th spot for WCS korea is really contested. Gumiho, Trap, sOs, Dear, INnoVation, soO, and Solar are all within 1500 points of eachother and can potentially take it with supertournament.
Nah. Neeb will qualify for ST and take it and ruin all their hopes and dreams
Why should terran be the only race that can force a draw? Z/P shouldn't have to build an air-to-air unit every single game just because of the terran stalemate condition. Seems like a clear T advantage.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
IMO, it adds an additional layer of strategy that makes for much more interesting end game scenarios. Neeb had the game won with recall but Ty's brain is op.
While we're at it, can we talk about recall? Seems like the equivalent of being able to recall your queen in chess after being pulled out of position and I don't think it belongs in RTS in its current form.
On September 05 2018 20:34 Myrddrael wrote: When did SC2 become a proxy fest? Super boring and seems like there's no risk at all vs Protoss?
If the proxy is found you might be in a very bad spot depending on the version you are doing.
The real advantage here is that there are multiple variations of it (double cyclone proxied or factory at home, agressive with marauders or defensive or whatever)
On September 05 2018 21:27 tskarzyn wrote: IMO, it adds an additional layer of strategy that makes for much more interesting end game scenarios. Neeb had the game won with recall but Ty's brain is op.
While we're at it, can we talk about recall? Seems like the equivalent of being able to recall your queen in chess after being pulled out of position and I don't think it belongs in RTS in its current form.
The game hinging on whether or not the protoss has one phoenix so he could theoretically spend the next 40 minutes chasing down every single Terran building and destroy it is not what I would call an "interesting end game scenario"
Oh man, great playing by Neeb. I feel like the draw game should have been given to Neeb, but that's just my heart talking right now. Hopefully TY can play really well in the finals.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
The ammount of things that have to line up to make lifting buildings a decisive factor is so big that its stupid to say its an advantage, actual draws are so far between that I think its been years since there was a draw in GSL.
You have to understand also that terran players know how to play around using the advantage of lifting their buildings, its a inherent point of allowing aggressive play.
If you take that out protoss players will have to big of an advantage with recall because they know they will have the upper hand in any base trade, kind of like what happens in PvZ, they kill a few bases, recall and suddenly your fucked up.
Neeb had all the tools he needed to deal with the situation, floating buildings didn't suddenly destroyed all of Neebs nexus and automatically gave TY the draw, TY simply made the best choice with what he had.
On September 05 2018 21:54 BisuDagger wrote: Oh man, great playing by Neeb. I feel like the draw game should have been given to Neeb, but that's just my heart talking right now. Hopefully TY can play really well in the finals.
TY thew the game by losing all the units in Neeb's main. Then Neeb threw it by not protecting any of his nexuses (or making a pheonix, he had a stargate and money for a quite a while during the basetrade iirc).
A draw seems as fair as you can get really. They both made game-losing mistake(s).
On September 05 2018 21:54 BisuDagger wrote: Oh man, great playing by Neeb. I feel like the draw game should have been given to Neeb, but that's just my heart talking right now. Hopefully TY can play really well in the finals.
TY thew the game by losing all the units in Neeb's main. Then Neeb threw it by not protecting any of his nexuses (or making a pheonix, he had a stargate and money for a quite a while during the basetrade iirc).
A draw seems as fair as you can get really. They both made game-losing mistake(s).
Yup, totally unwilling to argue for what is just what I want lol.
edit: I wouldn't be opposed to map makers either making a 1 unit width platform into those void sections or a pad that a single blink stalker could get to. I'm totally opposed to a gameplay change to resolve floating buildings.
On September 05 2018 21:54 BisuDagger wrote: Oh man, great playing by Neeb. I feel like the draw game should have been given to Neeb, but that's just my heart talking right now. Hopefully TY can play really well in the finals.
TY thew the game by losing all the units in Neeb's main. Then Neeb threw it by not protecting any of his nexuses (or making a pheonix, he had a stargate and money for a quite a while during the basetrade iirc).
A draw seems as fair as you can get really. They both made game-losing mistake(s).
But switch that around and have Neeb make the big mistake of getting his army caught and TY having his CCs knocked out. In that base trade, TY wins easily.
On September 05 2018 21:54 BisuDagger wrote: Oh man, great playing by Neeb. I feel like the draw game should have been given to Neeb, but that's just my heart talking right now. Hopefully TY can play really well in the finals.
TY thew the game by losing all the units in Neeb's main. Then Neeb threw it by not protecting any of his nexuses (or making a pheonix, he had a stargate and money for a quite a while during the basetrade iirc).
A draw seems as fair as you can get really. They both made game-losing mistake(s).
But switch that around and have Neeb make the big mistake of getting his army caught and TY having his CCs knocked out. In that base trade, TY wins easily.
TvP is not a mirror on both sides, so the reverse sitation is kinda different.
Besides, if Neeb gets his army caught in TY's base he just recalls out
I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
Terran forcing draws almost never happens either (more often than other races though tbf)
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
Terran forcing draws almost never happens either (more often than other races though tbf)
If people learn to recall in time every time draws will be a TvT only mechanic
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
Terran forcing draws almost never happens either (more often than other races though tbf)
If people learn to recall in time every time draws will be a TvT only mechanic
With the way TvT is with tank stalemates and doomdrops, it pretty much already is
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
It happened in Maru vs Has. Not exactly 50 vs 2 supply but similar.
How is Tasteless not constantly shitting himself? Artosis just keeps getting funnier.
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
It seems a bit silly when it does happen, but I don't think two forced draws in GSL history indicate that there needs to be a change.
On September 05 2018 20:09 sneakyfox wrote: So did TY just figure out Neeb's weak spot?
Nah. He rammed home the natural on that base. Good use of map. Not necessarily indictive of how the other maps will play
If you're the real Feardragon it'd be nice for the staff to give you a Commentator badge or something.
Haha I'm not. It's a funny story. This username was literally from a random name generator when I played WoW in like 2008. I kept the username. The fact Feardragon's last name is Pareek is just really funny coincidence
This is a constant source hilarity to me as I see your name all the time. I always recognize you because of it but you usually have cool stuff to say. =D
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
It happened in Maru vs Has. Not exactly 50 vs 2 supply but similar.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
Neeb shouldn't even be in the game after donating 8 disruptors, he was down 20-30 army supply most of the game and kept being a threat solely because of disruptors, TvP was never like that, you can see how I can use your argument for anything that fits an agenda.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
Neeb shouldn't even be in the game after donating 8 disruptors, he was down 20-30 army supply most of the game and kept being a threat solely because of disruptors, TvP was never like that, you can see how I can use your argument for anything that fits an agenda.
Let's not even talk about "mommy I fucked up" aka Recall.
On September 05 2018 20:29 Koivusto wrote: The decisive moment was that late recall. If it would've been 3-1 and harder to lose from there.
It has been brought up before, but I do think that Terran's ability to lift up should be looked at. This was the tipping point between doing another game and Neeb going up 3-1. At 3-1, yes he could have won, but it would have also been a lot harder.
I know there are arguments like leaving 400 minerals to build a nexus or leaving enough money to build a phoenix or recalling like 10 seconds earlier. But I still see no rational argument as to why there isn't like a 5 minute floating timer on Terran buildings. It doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever (except that you couldn't use it as an eternal scout), and it's long enough that the Protoss does actually have to damage another building or enemy unit to extend the draw timer.
Because switch the situations around, where Terran has the bigger army but is out of position. In every situation with Zerg and Protoss, the Terran wins, but in every situation with the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran can force a draw. I don't really think that I've ever seen a situation like this where a single racial difference is the true tipping point between draw and loss.
It also affects the win condition. Terran's "win" condition isn't destroy all my opponent's buildings; it's destroy all my opponent's main bases. The win condition for any other opponent is to destroy all the opponent's buildings. So it fundamentally puts the Terran at an imbalanced position (from a standard win perspective). Even from a draw perspective, the P/Z has to whittle down the T enough so that their army cannot engage the P/Z army and vice versa, whereas the T just has to lift their buildings.
Again, in normal ladder games, this is fine. It's part of the game, but I don't think it should be a major decider in a tight series like this.
Neeb shouldn't even be in the game after donating 8 disruptors, he was down 20-30 army supply most of the game and kept being a threat solely because of disruptors, TvP was never like that, you can see how I can use your argument for anything that fits an agenda.
The difference is that we're talking about situational events. TY and Neeb both made big mistakes; there is no doubt of that fact. I've seen doom drops break a Protoss in a winning situation. I've seen an archon toilet bring a lost game into a win. I've seen burrowed banelings cause a loss. A game is never played perfectly by either person.
My argument was and is based off of the fundamental principle around the basic win and draw conditions. Can you say that the draw condition is the same for P, Z, and T? T can disproportionately cause a draw because of lift off. They don't have to whittle down the army into a no win situation on either side; they just have to kill the nexii and stargate. However, P and Z have to actually fight the army or maneuver it around to kill all the buildings.
On September 05 2018 22:26 kajtarp wrote: I know the rules, but still find stupid how a 0 supply player can force a draw against a 50 army supply player, just because he can lift off his buildings. That being said, after Neeb's push where sacrificed his army for worker kills it was TY's game to lose. It was 20 army supply vs. like 80, TY should have killed him right away... I also wanted Neeblet to advance, but if we are honest, TY was the better player today. Neeb was still impressive tough.
Same can happen with 50 supply terran vs 2 supply protoss when that 2 supply is a DT.
I mean it could happen, but that's not zero supply and it practically speaking doesn't happen so why mention it?
It happened in Maru vs Has. Not exactly 50 vs 2 supply but similar.
Which game was this?
game 1
Wasn't there also a MKP vs Alicia game in Wol where this happened?
On September 06 2018 07:06 Charoisaur wrote: Floating building whine in 2018? People never fail to amaze me.
@above: With that logic Protoss'win condition is killing all Orbitals so terran can't scan anymore.
It's whine only if it was whine when any other part of the meta was unbalanced. If something is truly imbalanced, I don't think that speaking about that imbalance is whine. Additionally, I rationally laid out why I thought it was imbalanced.
No, because there is counter play. He has dts, and you have an overwhelming army supply, you just go and kill him. In that Maru/Has game, Maru 100% could have won by healing his units and slowly picking off all the other P buildings.
Edit: they only drew because Maru didn't want to deal with the hassle of letting his units recharge in the corner, then stim and kill off the stalkers while running away from the dts. Also, he could have just gone for the buildings. Even more, he could have used the buildings to draw stalker shots while he killed the stalkers.
The additional end game possibilities (draw) open up strategic options that wouldn't exist if there was a timer on Terran buildings. Draws rarely happen, but when they do it is usually because the player who forced the draw outsmarted their opponent. Neeb had 15 seconds to press one button and claim victory, but he was slow to assess the situation he was in whereas Ty knew it immediately and acted decisively. The better player won the series and the better player forced a draw, so I'm not really sure what the issue is here.
On September 05 2018 20:09 sneakyfox wrote: So did TY just figure out Neeb's weak spot?
Nah. He rammed home the natural on that base. Good use of map. Not necessarily indictive of how the other maps will play
If you're the real Feardragon it'd be nice for the staff to give you a Commentator badge or something.
Haha I'm not. It's a funny story. This username was literally from a random name generator when I played WoW in like 2008. I kept the username. The fact Feardragon's last name is Pareek is just really funny coincidence
This is a constant source hilarity to me as I see your name all the time. I always recognize you because of it but you usually have cool stuff to say. =D
I was noticed! :D Thanks. I try to not be salty and argue logic instead
On September 06 2018 10:10 tskarzyn wrote: The additional end game possibilities (draw) open up strategic options that wouldn't exist if there was a timer on Terran buildings.
"Terran's ability to force draws opens up the option for them to force a draw" you don't say!
On September 06 2018 10:10 tskarzyn wrote: The additional end game possibilities (draw) open up strategic options that wouldn't exist if there was a timer on Terran buildings.
"Terran's ability to force draws opens up the option for them to force a draw" you don't say!
The first rule of the Tautology club is the first rule
I still remember when Tasteless almost broke Artosis with his joke about pulling his shirt over his head in shame, shouting 'oh no' and fleeing the studio for getting a call wrong in a game. Like, Artosis was in stitches far past the point where Tasteless had moved on and just kept laughing and laughing, to the point it went through funny, came back around and became funny again just because of Artosis's reaction.
Honestly I think Tasteless is better at sniping Artosis's funny bone than the other way round. Most of the times it seems to be Tasteless breaking Artosis, not the other way round. Either way, just one of those signs that they really are best friends. They know each other so well that their humour is laser-guided.