WCSI've thought a lot about this issue with regards to college football. A few years ago, attempting to run a pass heavy (Big XII, if you will) offense in the SEC would have been suicide. However, that also locks you into a very static competition where there's very little variance. The 4th best QB might be able to beat the Best QB, but the 4th best RB behind line of 4th best linemen is not going to win against the best RB and line.
NBA Season 2018-2019 - Page 5
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Jerubaal
United States6858 Posts
I've thought a lot about this issue with regards to college football. A few years ago, attempting to run a pass heavy (Big XII, if you will) offense in the SEC would have been suicide. However, that also locks you into a very static competition where there's very little variance. The 4th best QB might be able to beat the Best QB, but the 4th best RB behind line of 4th best linemen is not going to win against the best RB and line. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada12483 Posts
anyhow, i say let's wait and see before turning it into a big joke. the guy could be legitimately sick. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada1442 Posts
On October 27 2018 03:29 Jerubaal wrote: It depends on what you think the role of a coach is. If you think it's to innovate and evolve the game, D'Antoni certainly did that. If it's to give your team the best chance of winning a title, that's less clear. I guess it depends on if you think those Suns teams played above their talent compared to the Spurs/Lakers, and, therefore, if D'Antoni cost them chances or was the only thing keeping them in it to begin with. I've thought a lot about this issue with regards to college football. A few years ago, attempting to run a pass heavy (Big XII, if you will) offense in the SEC would have been suicide. However, that also locks you into a very static competition where there's very little variance. The 4th best QB might be able to beat the Best QB, but the 4th best RB behind line of 4th best linemen is not going to win against the best RB and line. I think they were playing up to or above their talent. I mean the teams they were losing too were the spurs with prime duncan parker and ginobli and the loaded lakers with Kobe shaq/gasol odom so on. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada12483 Posts
On October 27 2018 02:24 JimmiC wrote:I read it this way because you were responding to a whats wrong with Towns post. to clear up my Towns//Butler post.. if i do not quote your post i am not responding to your post. hopefully, if you read it as an independent post you'll see what i'm saying. if not... i'll clarify it. | ||
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cLutZ
United States10746 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada1442 Posts
On October 27 2018 03:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote: to clear up my Towns//Butler post.. if i do not quote your post i am not responding to your post. hopefully, if you read it as an independent post you'll see what i'm saying. if not... i'll clarify it. It wasn't my post I thought you were referring too, it was the string of posts about Towns recent bad play. If you were not responding to those very odd to just out of the blue to post what you posted, especially when it so closely relates to the conversation. But I guess I'll take you at your word that you were just throwing out random information, completely unrelated to the conversation. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada1442 Posts
On October 27 2018 04:22 cLutZ wrote: Yes. Quite frankly, the only thing the Suns did wrong was not having Nash take more 3s per game. Shoot more in general, his %'s were crazy. But I guess we will never know if they would have dropped if he shot more. Or if would basically be putting up Steph numbers. | ||
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andrewlt
United States6677 Posts
On October 27 2018 04:22 cLutZ wrote: Yes. Quite frankly, the only thing the Suns did wrong was not having Nash take more 3s per game. I agree that the Suns definitely played above their talent during those years. To add my 2 cents, the first few teams to try playing like that had defensive shortcomings. Perhaps it was the lack of defensive personnel that forced them to innovate and play that style. Conventional wisdom at the time held that teams who played offense like that played no defense. Commentators were tying the offensive philosophy to the defensive deficiencies. When the Spurs and the Heat copied parts of the offensive philosophy (primarily the spacing and more selective quick offense), the people spouting conventional wisdom refused to admit they were copying Dantoni because those teams had stout defenses. When the Warriors started their run, it took more than a full season before conventional wisdom accepted that they were a strong defensive team. The narrative during their first championship season was mostly the same narrative that followed Dantoni's Suns teams. I think it was deep into the next season before the tv talking heads started giving them credit for their defense. Remember that one of the knocks against Nowitzki early in his career was that he shot too many 3s for a big man. He gradually took fewer 3 pt attempts and was more of a post up mid range player during his lone title. Ironically, that was the final championship won that way. The Heat, Spurs, Warriors and Cavs won all the subsequent titles with a 3-pt barrage. | ||
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cLutZ
United States10746 Posts
2015 was 4-0, 4-2, 4-1, 4-2 2016: 4-1, 4-1, 4-3, 3-4 Contrast with the Bulls 1996: 3-0, 4-1, 4-0, 4-2 1997: 3-0, 4-1, 4-1, 4-2 Golden State was exploitable in the way old school guys thought, its just they also had things old school guys weren't appreciating like really good floor spacing and switchablity on defense. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada1442 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1162 Posts
On October 27 2018 05:26 andrewlt wrote: When the Spurs and the Heat copied parts of the offensive philosophy (primarily the spacing and more selective quick offense), the people spouting conventional wisdom refused to admit they were copying Dantoni because those teams had stout defenses. When the Warriors started their run, it took more than a full season before conventional wisdom accepted that they were a strong defensive team. The narrative during their first championship season was mostly the same narrative that followed Dantoni's Suns teams. I think it was deep into the next season before the tv talking heads started giving them credit for their defense. Nah, The beginning of their first Championship season if you read any articles during the first half of the season, most of them clearly lined out how Steve Kerr was starting with a team renowned for it's defense, into a team that could also play elite offense. Draymond has always been known for his DPOY credentials, Iggy was famous for his 3 and D, Klay was and still is one of the best defensive players in the league, KD is widely regarded as having stellar defense... I don't think it's ever really been a secret or swept under the rug... It just gets lost in a barrage of 35ft 3's that Curry drains on a nightly basis while KD puts up 40. | ||
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andrewlt
United States6677 Posts
On October 27 2018 10:02 JimmiC wrote: I boldly predict that wiggin's RAPM looks much better this year. The Twolves are getting murdered tonight. The Greek Freak is probably leading the MVP race at the 6% of the season mark and they look like the second best team in the east. I think there is going to be a lot of AD vs Greek Freak talk! I have Giannis on my fantasy team. He's a bit too turnover prone to start the year and his FG% is pretty low for him. Middleton has been on fire. Bledsoe and a few others have been playing really well too. AD has been more efficient, except for tonight. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States6858 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada12483 Posts
On October 27 2018 05:51 cLutZ wrote: The thing about the Warriors is that the criticism wasn't all wrong when it came to the playoffs. Based on regular season record they should have never had multiple series go past 4-1 in either of those seasons maybe one 4-2 series a year. 2015 was 4-0, 4-2, 4-1, 4-2 2016: 4-1, 4-1, 4-3, 3-4 Contrast with the Bulls 1996: 3-0, 4-1, 4-0, 4-2 1997: 3-0, 4-1, 4-1, 4-2 Golden State was exploitable in the way old school guys thought, its just they also had things old school guys weren't appreciating like really good floor spacing and switchablity on defense. Thus far, Golden State's dynasty has been aided by key injuries to other teams. in 2015 the Cavs lost Love and Irving. in 2018 the Rockets lost Chris Paul. Were there any big injuries to other teams that helped propel the Bulls past a tough competitor during their late 90s dynasty ? not that i recall. The Pacers 7-gamer involved the Pacers winning 3 very close games. did the Pacers incur any big injuries ? not that i recall. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States6858 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada12483 Posts
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cLutZ
United States10746 Posts
On October 28 2018 02:12 Jerubaal wrote: We seem to be caught between calling the Warriors "unfair" and "not that great". The pre-Durant Warriors have become overrated as people conflate the two. With Durant, when healthy, they are an all time team, but also a team facing a general lull in competition (partially because their biggest rival, OKC was dismantled in order to create them, somewhat like what happened when the Heat were formed). | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1162 Posts
On October 28 2018 01:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Thus far, Golden State's dynasty has been aided by key injuries to other teams. in 2015 the Cavs lost Love and Irving. in 2018 the Rockets lost Chris Paul. Were there any big injuries to other teams that helped propel the Bulls past a tough competitor during their late 90s dynasty ? not that i recall. The Pacers 7-gamer involved the Pacers winning 3 very close games. did the Pacers incur any big injuries ? not that i recall. On the flip side, a few key injuries ruined what should have been their second of 4-straight Championships. Iggy was hurt, Bogut got hurt, Steph was playing on a bum knee, and to top it all off Draymond got suspended for what looked like a gentle smack. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada12483 Posts
On October 28 2018 07:56 Nemireck wrote: On the flip side, a few key injuries ruined what should have been their second of 4-straight Championships. Iggy was hurt, Bogut got hurt, Steph was playing on a bum knee, and to top it all off Draymond got suspended for what looked like a gentle smack. "all time great" teams overcome injuries and play with injuries and win it all any way. Last night's Dodgers walk-off home run reminded me of Kirk Gibson's walk-off home-run. He could not even run the bases properly. It was the slowest home run trot I've ever seen. When his team mates mobbed him at home plate they had to hug him sideways his legs were so bad. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada1442 Posts
On October 28 2018 07:56 Nemireck wrote: On the flip side, a few key injuries ruined what should have been their second of 4-straight Championships. Iggy was hurt, Bogut got hurt, Steph was playing on a bum knee, and to top it all off Draymond got suspended for what looked like a gentle smack. Very true, it would be silly to consider only the injuries of opponents without considering the injuries of their own team. Healthy GSW Durrant included are no doubt on the all-time list of great teams. | ||
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