**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding.
The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in:
5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile
For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K
For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis.
You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training.
Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
Well guys, I'm going to be honest. 2018 was the worst year I've had in a long time. Maybe ever. The first 3 months weren't bad, and I actually got back into pretty good shape. Not my early 2017 fitness, but on par at least with my other years and even had a top top 5s and a top 3. Then, things just fell off the rocker.
School ratcheted up and I got busy. Then in summer I had two sorta good one month builds, but was shut down by a nasty crash in the middle. Then school started up again. Was starting to make some progress, but got sick in early September with a nasty little viral bug for 3-4 days. Probably started trying to ride sooner than I did, which may have contributed, but basically turned into a sinus infection and fatigued that hammered me. For the first month I was flat out laid out. There were days were walking a mile to school was a pretty big chore. It was, in all honesty, a bit scary to have fatigue like that. It's gradually lessened, but still have days were wake up feeling post nasal drop, stuffed up head, low energy, and "on the verge" of being sick.
I also have continued to deal with anxiety. If I haven't told the story, back in Aug 17' I woke up after a hard 2 hour group ride with some sort of night panic attack. Felt like something was wrong with my heart/thought I was having a heart attack. Didn't die or anything, and was probably a combination of stress from a major semester starting up and hard riding. Stress was enough to induce some PVCs (where heart stops a beat, long pause, then very powerful thud beat), which freaked me TF out because it felt like my heart was stopping. Started googling hardcore, and basically developed the habit of freaking out when I felt my heart and since I was constantly scanning my body that was basically always. More or less worked myself into some pretty nasty anxiety. For six months it was horrible, at times I was having these PVCs like 4-5 times a minute. Eventually I started accepting it was anxiety sometime around early summer this year, and that helped and basically I don't have PVCs much anymore, but I'll still randomly get anxious at times or what have you. Not a huge deal, except when it disturbs sleep, which it often does, especially if I wake up early in the night. Probably 1x-2x a week I'll get like 4 or 5 hours instead of 7 or 8.
This lack of sleep is just often enough, especially since I usually have 1-2 days where I go out with friends and miss a little sleep or whatever that I just haven't really every had good consistent 7-8 hour sleep weeks in a long time. Combine that with chronic sinusitus and fatigue and I just haven't felt consistently good enough to string anything together. Im not hopelessly out of shape, but I haven't been in this kind of shape in about 6 years. Mix that with the anxiety always coming up with clever new ways of feeling (now it's tingling or fasiculations in the toes/hands) and I just haven't felt "healthy" in way too long. Objectively, I know I am, but my subconscious side doesn't want to feel that way.
So where does that leave me? Well, looking forward to improve from where I am in 2019.
First semester of 2019 will be hard. Very hard. I don't have any major goals then. I would say my C goal would be to lose 3kg-5kg and kinda maintain my current fitness. My B goal would be to at least train consistently, 4-5x per week, even if that's just easy riding/running as opposed to anything hard. A goal would be a solid 8kg of loss and some workouts, bringing my back down to my typical racing weight of around 70kg (got down as low as 63kg one winter, but never got to race with it).
If I can get back on control of my sleep, figure out with ENT the CRS, and make some progress on the anxiety stuff it shouldn't be too hard to meet the B goal.
Ideally, the second half of 2019 would feature a return to actual training, and I'd end the season back in at least 2016 shape, which was around 4.3 w/kg for 60' on the bike and mid 18s for 5k. The A goal would be to be in PR shape, but I kinda doubt training will have that much of a priority to put in the work necessary to get back to there. At a minimum I'd like to end 2019 close to 12% BF than 20% BF, and in at least a little better shape than I am now.
Priority A - Get back to feeling healthy/fut Priority B - Get back to my old fitness/consistency Priority C - Set some PRs
On January 06 2019 10:07 Gjhc wrote: Hey MarcoJ! Cycling is great but it does indeed have a high entry bar, and you need to be aware of everything you should have, the bike is just a part of it. You don’t need any premium stuff and still enjoy cycling, but there are a few things I’d recommend you to think about getting.
For road bikes, decathlon has some good cheap ones such as the triban500. There may be cheaper options but I’ve never really searched much. If you don’t have someone a bit experienced with bikes to check used bikes with you I’d recommend you stay away from that option, there are many non-obvious things to look for which are hard to summarize here. Your bike should come with flat pedals which are the cheaper option as they don’t need specific shoes.
Also don’t cut corners on equipment. At least a decent jacket is a must for cold/bad weather, and gloves are also very important. A cycling jersey is very useful but regular sports short/longsleeve shirts can also do a good job. As for tights/pants, cycling specific ones are obviously better but if you can’t buy them straight away, some tighter sports pants can do although they are not really ideal. Again deacthlon has some cheaper equipment and I’ve also heard Lidl and Aldi (both german stores I think) have entry level stuff.
You also need the tools for changing flat tires. Few things are worse than having a flat tire far from home. Ideally you should always take on your rides at least 1 spare inner tube, tyre levers and a pump (co2 pumps are great but get really cold when used and can cause nasty frost burns if not properly handled). There are kits that come with everything you need but you can buy things seperately.
LMaster can give you more details about Zwift as I don’t have it but it requires that you have a turbo trainer which is not exactly cheap and you need to pay a monthly/yearly(?) subscription.
The budget is a bit tight but it is better if you can plan things ahead and not find, after spending your money, that you need a bunch of extra stuff. Hope it helped!
Bunch of good stuff there from Gjhc. Zwift is great if you're into serious training, or really like to ride during the winter. At a minimum you need a bike trainer and a speed/cadence sensor (ANT+). It currently costs $15USD/mo. In a more ideal environment you'd have an actual powermeter, or a smart trainer with power.
2018 was a very successful campaign for me, it was the first year in five years that I did not run a full marathon, but I was fine with that. I managed to snag a very nice half PR in November and really changed up my training quite a bit through the second half of the year (Thanks L_Master for the coaching/advice!)
I spent most of the first half of the year plodding along, did not have too solid of a training cycle in the spring but a lot of stuff was going on and I had a trip to Europe in March so I knew I wasn’t going to be able to keep up any sort of a training cycle through that. I still managed to run a solid half in April but it wasn’t until my fall races did I really see some breakthroughs. I’ve resumed my milage a bit the first week of 2019 and plan to try and keep it up pretty solidly all year while staying smart and hopefully injury free. I’ve really been able to keep up some good consistency now for 2+ years and it seems like it’s really helping with my times and overall fitness, I credit this to backing off on the days when things don’t feel good and always building the milage very prudently, right now my target is 25-30 miles a week which is a sweet spot for me without pushing anything but will definitely be ramping it up as I prepare for my goal races.
My two goal races will be the Cherry Blossom 10 miler in DC in April, and the Chicago Marathon in October, super excited to be running another marathon I feel like my PR at that distance is begging to be crushed (3:57 and change, set in NYC in 2017), it would be nice to PR at Cherry Blossom as well, but February is going to be an action packed month for me, getting married in the middle of the month so you can imagine that might take some time and priorities from running for a while, I’ve really enjoyed running recently though and will be trying to find ways to keep it up even through some busy stretches upcoming. Overall I could see myself treating the Cherry Blossom race as more of a fitness gauge leading into an extended build up for Chicago (5-6 month build if that is even a thing?). Quite frankly, I want to pour everything into running my best possible race in Chicago this year with everything dedicated to that. If I find time to break 20 minutes for a 5k at some point through it all that would be great, but the marathon is back where I want to focus and I’m ready for it. Good luck to everyone with their goals for this year, L_Master you can except a PM from me sometime in the near future when I’m ready to start seriously building again
Damn, that sounds tough to deal with. Have you had a cardiologist rule out any actual heart problems? Because that's an awful lot of sympoms. And if it's "just" psychosomatic/anxiety induced it sounds troubling enough that you might benefit from talking to a psychotherapist. Either way I'd seek out some medical professional.
Gonna post my own running history & 2019 plans when I can type on a real keyboard.
Damn, that sounds tough to deal with. Have you had a cardiologist rule out any actual heart problems? Because that's an awful lot of sympoms. And if it's "just" psychosomatic/anxiety induced it sounds troubling enough that you might benefit from talking to a psychotherapist. Either way I'd seek out some medical professional.
Gonna post my own running history & 2019 plans when I can type on a real keyboard.
Yea. Sure did. I've had echo's twice as part of screening, in 2012 and 2015 and those didn't show anything suspicious such as HCM or similar conditions. Also did a 48HR holter monitoring as well as a resting EKG when this all started. Cardiologist didn't see anything concerning.
One of the hallmarks of anxiety is that it's a glorious mimicker. It can feel like damn near just about fucking anything. Having been through it, it's so easy for me to see how tons of people really fuck themselves up with it, because you constantly worry about new things and just perpetuate the cycle. I've had: PVCs, tachycardia ("anxietyed" myself up to 140bpm once), chest pressure, center of back pain, headache, sense of unfocused eyes, dizziness, numbness in feet, a "buzzing" sensation in my foot like a phone was under it vibrating on an intermittent basis, tingling/pins and needles in my extremities, a buzzing thigh, sense of weakness in my hands (not actual weakness, grip remained the same), bloating of the stomach, some GI stuff, random stabbing pains, tinnitus etc.
Not gonna lie though, that makes it sound suppeerrr fucking bad. Which, it really isn't. Most of these were all minor annoyances at best, it's not like I was feeling these things constantly, or even regularly. Most only came on during intense moments of anxiety/panic attack primarily in the first four to six months where I was understanding it. The most annoying symptom by far is just the constant tension/adrenaline. It really is like that feeling where you are startled badly, but then it doesn't abate, so you just say feeling tensed and needing to run. At the beginning I would feel like that for hours at a time. Much, much better now, but it will still kick in occasionally.
But you're right, in that it's really easy to want to think, or wonder if there is something wrong with you when you keep feeling all these things, and I think most people do exactly that, but then they are worried which exacerbates the anxiety which exacerbates the symptoms, etc. and becomes a vicious cycle. The biggest problem I struggle with no is I developed this strong association of: check body -> when you check body intensely you ALWAYS feel something weird -> subconscious alarm at feeling something -> anxiety -> check body -> etc. It's hard to eradicate completely because the checks are habit behavior now, and the response to the checks or feeling everything is that good ole amygdala just firing off.
Biggest tell it isn't some disease is the way the symptoms behave. I've literally never had any of these symptoms when I was just chilling out completely calm or when I was distracted doing something fun or important. Only feel any of these things when I've noticed anxiety or tension. If you have real problems, you're symptoms don't magically vanish away when you find a moment of relaxation or go out to a party with friends.
There might be some benefit to talking to someone, but for me and what I've looked at my anxiety was mild by all definitions. The first 4-6 months, where I was basically developing it for myself, was closer to moderate anxiety that actually affected functioning, but it never really impacted my work or social life. Those things would usually be distracting enough that the anxiety would go away during them. Mostly quiet times or lazy times where I would deal with it the worst, and fortunately I didn't make the mistake many make of getting anxious about getting anxious at the wrong places/times and starting to stay in and dwell on it more.
I might eventually see someone, but overall I've had steady progress in eliminating the anxiety so I'm not too worried. It's better now than it was 3 months ago, which is better than 3 months ago, which is much better than 3 months ago, which is MUUCCHHH better than 3 months before that. Now it's mostly mild episodes where I'll just suddenly notice my heartbate or get attuned to some part of my body and get that amped up, adrenaline "oh shit just saw a bear" feeling for maybe 5 or 10 minutes before I relax or move around and get my mind off it. Like on my happiness scale right now I'd say on most days it barely even detracts from it, and on the worst days it's maybe a 1pt detraction. The loss of sleep that tends to correlate with waking up is definitely the most irritating feature.
Good luck L_Master, if I don't have anxiety crisis, I know well people who have and the toll it can take on you... And as someone who suffered from depression and still regularly wakes up at 4 in the morning...
For me 2018 was my first full year of full running, culminating with my first marathon in ~3h57. Pretty proud, but I clearly trained badly, much too hard especially, and I almost fainted during one training session, and had a huge regression after that. After reading up a bit more, it seems the first advice one finds one the internet are not very good, especially in French, that plus my own stupidity didn't help...
So for 2018, my first goals are : -do a proper aerobic base training, which I'm just starting now. Increase frequency from 5 to 6 times a week would be ideal, not sure if I can add one more endurance run yet though. -lose 4-5kg, 7 would be perfect. -beat my official PR on HM. Should be easy enough because it's 1h57, and I ran the first half of my marathon in ~1h54 :p Let's say I want reliable reference times on HM and 10km. -run more on trails and get better at hills. If I almost didn't do any sport for about 10 years, I've always loooooved hiking. Trail running is a pretty tempting hobby, even though Paris is not great for that. -most importantly, not injure or overtrain. Slow but steady progress is what I'm aiming for. I'll wait 2020 for bigger stuff.
Also I'd bike a bit more, but punctures are the bane of my existence.
Used to be an (hyper)active kid, played soccer & lots of basketball but never trained really seriously. Growth pains during puberty combined with the with the first Playstation drastically reduced activity levels and I while there were phases when I got back into doing some sports, I wasn't nearly as active anymore. Starting in ~2006 life went sideways and I slowly drifted into depression without noticing. From about 2009-2015 I was completely sedentary, deeply depressed and managed to almost scratch the 90kg/200pounds mark.
When my body finally told me to screw myself and I had to spend a couple of weeks in the hospital, I kinda woke up and bit by bit got my life back together. The central piece was finding a job (summer '15) that had me ride a bike delivering stuff, so I was forced to a regular schedule and about 4h of light physical activity in the outdoors every weekday. My mental health improved slowly but steadily.
Around the turn of '16/'17 I was at a neighbors party and they talked about Freeletics and when they were at my door the next day to pick up my roommate I was totally hung over but thought screw it, I could use some activity. So I joined, almost threw up and was sore for a week from doing just a few jumping jacks and sit ups. But somehow I kept at it, went regularly 2-3 times a week and boy did things change! I quickly lost the rest of my excess weight, had enough energy to finally seek out a psychotherapist and my fitness quickly improved.
Then in June 2017 some coworkers decided to enter a 5k race as a kind of teambuilding exercise. Holy crap! Running in the midst of 6.5k+ participants (b2run, big race series in germany for companies) was simply amazing! I was hooked right then and there!
So in my first race I stuck with my quickest coworker and we cruised the 5.2k in slightly under 30 minutes. 2 weeks later was another race in my city, this time I decided to see how fast I can go which was about 23 minutes for 5k. Later when I started reading lots on /r/running I noticed that's not all that bad for not having run in years and only half a year of aerobic base building via tons of burpees. I started running regularly and read a lot about running (reddit, Jack Daniels Running Formula, The Lore of Running and I think I'm gonna get a Pfitzinger book soon).
Then I suffered a collapsed lung at the end of august, but luckily that was only about a 2 week break. About 7 weeks after that in mid october my 10k time was down to a 49:17 11k. While in retrospect I think I ramped up way too quickly (especially considering I'm not 20 anmore) I was lucky I did almost all of my mileage as easy running. And at least I wasn't totally stupid in pushing through pain, i backed off soon enough so that I never had to take any longer breaks.
2018 started of great with a 10k in 41 minutes. But after that race I got overly motivated for my first half scheduled in april and after overdoing it I not only had to cut back to avoid serious physical injuries but I also got burned out mentaly. In the 2 months before my first half marathon I barely managed to go out on 11 runs...and somehow I still finished in 1:32:33. Must have been the mileage I put in during the end of 2017.
~240k of august is hiking and biking during vacation (again a stupid amount, have a slight hernia problem since then), the rest is running. Then almost exactly 1 year later my left lung collapsed again, this time I had to go through surgery to reattach the lung and they also cut off a little piece of it. No matter, same race as last year 7 weeks later I ran the 11k in 45:29. After that race I got sick and had to take 2 weeks off, got back into it, got sick again in november, taking another 2 weeks off, then motivation was all meh and those 4 weeks of no exercise at all have been the longest break of any sports I had in 2 years.
Mid december I was so disgusted with myself from eating oh so many sweets and not exercising, that I decided to start running daily, even if only for 10 minutes. And what can I say, it seems to be working perfectly for me, motivation is way high again and the small short runs give me better feedback if a little niggle wants to become an injury. Today was day 36 of my running streak, this time building more slowly. Aside from 1 tempo run early this week no workouts yet and I'm back to a 4 week avg of 37.4k.
Tomorrow is my first race this year, a pancake flat 10k. I estimate to come in somewhere around 42 minutes (my Garmin predicts sub 40 but I'm always a little over those predicions). It's been a while since I ran hard so I'm looking forward to having actual numbers on how fit I currently am.
Running goals for 2019:
1. Don't be stupid & listen to my body. Take time off when needed, especially to avoid mental burnout from running! 2. Have fun! 3. Consistency! 4. Break 40min 10k and 1:30 half marathon. Should be rather easy with some consistent training. 5. Get faster!
Scheduled races:
20.01. 10k - see where i start this year
24.03. 10k - fitness check to set a goal time for the half 2 weeks later
07.04. Half Marathon in my local city (Freiburg). The german national half marathon championships are going to be held at this event. Looking forward to see what fast people can do on this course (should be about 100m of elevation change, some annoying cobblestones...)
30.06. Hamburg Half Marathon - 2nd biggest half in germany after Berlin and my A race this year, I signed up to have my medal engraved with name + finishing time. This is a fast course (record of 1:00:52) and Hamburg is usually rather cool even during the middle of summer.
July: incorporate more trails & hills to be fit for vacation in the alps in august.
Fall: look for some interesting races to set new 5k & 10k PRs
I registered for one more race since I last posted. So this is everything I've got scheduled:
10k - March 17 (doing a mini-taper for this but mostly training through it) 12k - May 19 (goal race. all my training from now until then is targeted for this race) Half Marathon - November 10 (another goal race. I get to start with the elites. great opportunity to throw down a great time)
Still seriously considering working on the 1500m/mile, which would happen some spring / early summer, since that's when track meets are. So after that November HM I will think about transitioning then for the 2020 track season.
Things are going well right now though. I'm holding steady at ~50 mpw and have now introduced 2 workouts per week.
Weight loss is still a challenge. I'm good when eating at a deficit for a few days and then I get SO hungry and feel SO tired that I have to refuel. Really finding it difficult to strike that perfect balance where I gradually lose weight without my body shutting down. But if I'm ever going to run my best times, it'll be with a better body composition than what I have right now. So I'm gonna keep working on that. Even if I lost only 1 pound per month on average, I'd be happy with that.
But I'm not labeling stuff on strava so my workouts aren't that obvious unless you look closely at the data and do a little guesswork. Anyway I just did a 4mi tempo yesterday at 5:17/mile average, felt good. I don't totally trust GPS though since I did laps on a field. But I've done a few other tempos on this field that were average around 5:30-5:35 so at least relative to those it was a good run. I'm gonna try to do some workouts on a track or straight path at some point so that I get more trustworthy mile splits.
Anyway, I'm focused on consistency this year. I would really love to run a full year without taking any significant time off.
I estimate to come in somewhere around 42 minutes (my Garmin predicts sub 40 but I'm always a little over those predicions).
Running goals for 2019: 4. Break 40min 10k and 1:30 half marathon. Should be rather easy with some consistent training.
...aaaaand done!
Perfect race today! Temperature right around freezing, no wind, the usually softer parts through the forest were frozen solid, slept decently, had a good breakfast and was properly caffeinated.
Got a little stuck in traffic in the first 2k but I thought that wasn't too bad since I was roughly on target pace. Around the 5k mark I saw a 20:2x on my watch but I was unsure if I could hang on and hoped to stay under 41 minutes, then around 7k I saw 28:1x and thought holy crap, I might break 40 with a decent kick. But I knew I'd be really pissed with something like a 40:05 or sth like that, so I dug deep and the last 3k really hurt. I did my best Kipchoge impression and forced myself to smile, I think it helped!
I had this stupid grin on my face all day, feeling so good right now
Wow nice run Nocci! The base building and recent hard work of your training really paid off. It's a good feeling when you reach your goal, now you just need a new one!
Sounds like everyone has a solid plan of how they plan to spend the upcoming year and what they want to accomplish, best of luck to all!
On January 22 2019 02:37 tagliatelle wrote: Wow nice run Nocci! The base building and recent hard work of your training really paid off. It's a good feeling when you reach your goal, now you just need a new one!
Well that's how it's supposed to be, but I just started base building again so that's why this (quite big) PR surprised me a lot.
Between my last race in mid october (~41:20 10k) and mid december there were only 2 weeks in november when I tried to get back into things but I spent about 4 weeks fighting off the flu & stuff, overall 7 weeks of no running at all. I've only been running again for 5 weeks, no workouts or hard running at all and the longer runs were only 8k (went to 10k twice). I did an 8k tempo run 3 days before the race just to get prepared mentally for a harder effort.
I mean I was wearing faster shoes than before (first time in racing flats, Altra Vanish-R) and it was probably my best race effort pacing wise, on the other hand I was 3kg heavier compared to setting my previous PR and I was sure to have lost some fitness - but nope, faster than ever!
Funny thing about my watch prediction: it predicted 39:48 and right after running 39:53 it went: "nono you can actually do 39 flat!"
2018 In somewhat secret fashion I have been running Spartan Races for the past few years but with little to no actual training for them. To give some context a Spartan race is an obstacle race with 3 different distances(Excluding Ultra and Super Ultra) that consist of the Sprint(4-5 Miles) Super(7-8 Miles) and Beast(13-16 Miles). During the race you will climb a few walls, carry a bucket full of rocks for a predetermined distance, carry a sandbag, and do intricicate obstacles. Not all obstacles need to be attempted but most people do everything they can do then pass up what they cant with the exception of the Elite runners(Earn money for placing 1-10) and competitive heats(Actual timed with burpee penalties for failing certain obstacles). If you are able to complete all 3 races they create a medal that connects.
I struggled during each spartan race only to finish with pure mental fortitude. With very little training in May I ran back to back races at the Monterrey Super/Sprint in June. The super lasting 8.4 Miles and the Sprint being 4.5 miles. Afterwards I moved directly to Missouri to start a new job, and have very little to no training until September where I prepared for the Dallas Beast. I spent most of the time building up endurance due to the race being very long and had very little focus on weight training except getting my own bucket of rocks.
I was sick most of November and carried on til early December, and that's when I really ramped up and started what I am in the middle of right now. Runs every Monday Wednesday Friday and sporadic Saturday and Sunday runs.
2019 I have already started on my new goal of running 100 miles total in the month of January as a way to get my endurance up for the next couple of spartan races.
Februrary will be a continuation of another 100 miles of running with shorter distances, but added small caveats to prepare for the spartan races such as burpees every mile ran and bucket carries.
I mostly look forward to running these races hard and building up to competitive races, and if I do get strong enough Elite races for fun.
March will be my first race super/sprint.
Wish me luck and I''ll try to update as I finish up planning the rest of my races/training!
Hi, This is my introduction to the running thread. I've started running regularly about two years ago. In the first months I was getting big improvements in speed and after six months my personal best for 5 km was close to 20 minutes. I was faster by one second than the fastest girl running parkrun in my 50k city, so I rested on laurels
Here is a picture of me after a running session tracked with my pro watch:
After the first six months during which I was mostly interested in making new records no matter the cost (health, job or whatever), I've started focusing on improving my running form and training more wisely. It's been a year and a half and I can say that changing a running technique is a tremendously hard and exhausting task with no quick results and I still feel like I need a year or two before I can make some significant progress. Most of my effort goes to strengthening core muscles, especially hip muscles and improving elasticity of muscles and tendons. I've put bar high for my goals. I've been reading a lot about running techniques and been analyzing a lot of videos of pro runners.
Below you can find two videos that explain in a simple way of what I'm trying to achieve.
Most runners do run using muscle tension (muscular tonus). Such runners can usually be recognized by the way their hips work as seen in the video below:
My goal is to run using muscle resilience by engaging many of the spring mechanisms in your body. A strong core and strong hip muscles are the basis. Good muscle elasticity an another must. A proper pose is essential to activating spring mechanisms. Here is the second video that shows running using spring mechanisms:
I am no expert, but I know for sure that it all starts in the hips and here is a good article on better using your hips:
By unwise I mean overtraining, not resting/sleeping enough, or taking four tablets of pseudoephedrine and getting nearly heart attack at the finish line
I do realize now that new running technique won't get me great results instantly. In the videos I've pasted the Triathlon runner (#1) runs 10k in 29min, while the Kenyan runs 10k in 27min, so it's not that big difference in the end. Eliud Kipchoge runs using the spring technique while Mo Farah is using standard technique and the difference in marathon between these two isn't that big as well (3min). However I love the feeling of the new technique during running. My body is telling me that this is natural and that I should be running like this, so I keep on trying. I like the changes it makes to my body, I am more relaxed and it motivates me to strengthening my core and I feel that my body gets stronger every day. I walk more straight, I sit more straight and I feel flexible like a cat. It's a great journey for my body. I also got rid of all the injuries I was getting all the time (shin splints, stiff tendons) after changing the technique.
I think sprinting is the first step to learning proper running mechanics. If you just train distance paces and do non-running training in the gym, then you're not giving your neurological system a chance to learn to recruit and synchronize the correct muscles for running power and propulsion. Hill sprints are a popular method for distance runners to practice this, like 8 seconds of 100% effort up a 7% grade hill, then take full recovery (2-3 minutes walking around). Start with only 1-2 reps and build up to 8 reps.
Also to note is that Kipchoge is said to be nowhere near being able to touch his toes during a basic hamstring stretch. Sufficient flexibility is important but excessive flexibility can be a disadvantage in running. Or simply a waste of effort.
Finally I'd note that a body's unique biomechanics or exercise history can prevent an individual from achieving the ideal running form. Probably in looking at pros running, you've noticed quite a large variety of forms. If you've spent a lifetime developing one way, especially if it suits your particular body, then no amount of attempting to change it will result in a superior result, even if your body theoretically has a more efficient way to operate. Of course that's not to say that no one has ever made a beneficial correction, but rather just to say that there practical limits.
On January 26 2019 10:27 NonY wrote: I think sprinting is the first step to learning proper running mechanics. If you just train distance paces and do non-running training in the gym, then you're not giving your neurological system a chance to learn to recruit and synchronize the correct muscles for running power and propulsion. Hill sprints are a popular method for distance runners to practice this, like 8 seconds of 100% effort up a 7% grade hill, then take full recovery (2-3 minutes walking around). Start with only 1-2 reps and build up to 8 reps.
Hmm to my knowledge all sprinters use mostly muscle tension. I do hill running once a week. (8x150m).
Also to note is that Kipchoge is said to be nowhere near being able to touch his toes during a basic hamstring stretch. Sufficient flexibility is important but excessive flexibility can be a disadvantage in running. Or simply a waste of effort.
Very true. I've learned that after the first year. During that time I've made many mistakes, but none of it isn't irreversible since it's not a long period of time (I hope so). Now I stretch more wisely and don't force things. I guess the body will adapt best elasticity for running while doing running.
Finally I'd note that a body's unique biomechanics or exercise history can prevent an individual from achieving the ideal running form. Probably in looking at pros running, you've noticed quite a large variety of forms. If you've spent a lifetime developing one way, especially if it suits your particular body, then no amount of attempting to change it will result in a superior result, even if your body theoretically has a more efficient way to operate. Of course that's not to say that no one has ever made a beneficial correction, but rather just to say that there practical limits.
I don't mind that it will take a lot of time, my body tells me that this is the way to do it, so I follow it. I listen mostly to my body now. I read something on the net about technique and I only take it as a hint, I make the final decision only if it feels right.
That's a very different kind of exercise. 150m hill reps are more of a workout while the hill sprints I'm talking about are really just technique work. They are kept short enough with long enough recovery that you don't feel any more tired on the last one than on the first one. They're just meant to give the neurological system an opportunity to work on optimal neuron firing for running. The body doesn't figure it out as well when some muscles are fatigued or when running at lower efforts. So this repetition of sprinting all-out with enough recovery to keep yourself fresh is really good for technique.
Think like this: if two identical people both tried to jump as high as they can, they'd jump an equal height. Now if you can magically hold the physical ability of their bodies constant, and only allow the brains continue to develop what happens when their minds think "jump as high as you can", and then one guy regularly tries jumping as high as he can while the other guy only does little jumps and does other exercises like squats, then the guy practicing jumping high is going to improve a lot and become clearly better. Take even further: the first guy jumps only if he's 100% fresh and the other guy tries to jump as high as he can too, but only when he's tired, like at the end of a rep or at the end of a whole workout, then the first guy will still win.
So whatever form you are developing, I think that this kind of technique work that you get from sprinting, whether on the uphill or on the flat, is helpful. Even if you don't care what your top speed is, the neurological patterns that your brain develops have a trickle-down effect that makes lower efforts and slower paces more efficient.
On January 26 2019 10:15 GoPlayTetriz wrote: By unwise I mean overtraining, not resting/sleeping enough, or taking four tablets of pseudoephedrine and getting nearly heart attack at the finish line
Haha yea that's definitely not wise. The former two will just prevent you from getting better...the last is a bit dangerous :O
I do realize now that new running technique won't get me great results instantly. In the videos I've pasted the Triathlon runner (#1) runs 10k in 29min, while the Kenyan runs 10k in 27min, so it's not that big difference in the end. Eliud Kipchoge runs using the spring technique while Mo Farah is using standard technique and the difference in marathon between these two isn't that big as well (3min).
First of all, the gaps between what you listed are HUGE. HUGE. Two minutes over a 10k is an almost comically different level of performance.
The key thing is that the differences between the two are not in their technique, although running economy does play a role in how fast you can run. The difference between the two is in there fatigue resistance and natural abilities. Farah is a 3:28 1500m runner, Kipchoge could never dream of running such a time. Farah has vastly greater FRC (anaerobic cap) and generally better speed. As a typical rule, guys with large anaerobic engines tend to not to have quite the same endurance, and indeed we see this the case, as Kipchoge would crush Farah at HM or M where anaerobic cap is but a small portion of the necessary power. Kipchoge flat out has a bigger aerobic engine than Farah.
If it was purely technique, Kipchoge would just flat out be faster than Farah at everything, but it's not. Farah is a much better 1500m runner, a better 5000m runner, probably even with Kipchoge for 10000m, and then Kipchoge is better out past 10M or so.
Just like with the 10k though, the difference between a 2:01 and 2:05 is VERY big.
However I love the feeling of the new technique during running. My body is telling me that this is natural and that I should be running like this, so I keep on trying. I like the changes it makes to my body, I am more relaxed and it motivates me to strengthening my core and I feel that my body gets stronger every day. I walk more straight, I sit more straight and I feel flexible like a cat. It's a great journey for my body. I also got rid of all the injuries I was getting all the time (shin splints, stiff tendons) after changing the technique.
Working on technique and fixing issues with your form is definitely a good thing, especially if you have flaws or are getting injured. Since it's satisfying, fun, and reduces your injuries it seems like a very wise decision to keep working on it. Just don't expect that to lead to better performances. If you did only technique work every day, you would definitely get slower over the next 3, 6 or 12 months. However, if you work on your "engine" while also improving your form you'll get faster. It's just that engine accounts for 90% of it or more, and from perhaps 10%, unless there are severe issues with how you run.
What NonY is saying is also very true. One thing they have found is that the biggest aspect of running economy (which, for performance, is what matters at the end of the day, i.e. whether you use more or less oxygen to run a given pace) is ground contact time. Runners with poor economy tend to have "lazy" foot strikes, where their foot stays in contact with the group longer, resulting in greater friction and more slowly down. Runners with the best economy tend to have good "pop", which their foot quickly imparting the necessary force to the ground.
Sprinters are the best at this, sprinting is all about applying power to the ground as quickly as possible. Training sprinting, as NonY says, trains the neuromuscular system/brain-body connection to recruit muscle fibers in the fastest, most efficient way possible, translating to all the components of good form.
Thanks guys for all the input, it's appreciated. I do like sprints, so I will keep in mind the uphill sprints. I do have a nearby athletics stadium and recently I got very fast over short distances, so fast running is not my issue, I struggle mostly with endurance
What affects ground contact time? I guess speed and cadence, or are there other factors?
At the moment most of my energy goes into strengthening core muscles. I try to activate my core muscles throughout all day no matter what I do (sit, stand, walk and even when I lie in bed) by maintaining a better pose that engages these muscles. I guess the stronger core muscle get the better runner it will make me. Although this becomes very exhausting sometimes, my hip muscles and lower abdominal muscles are so tired now. But from what I understand our core muscles are designed to be tense 24h/day and it will get better with time I just need to make them strong enough. The running style of Kipchoge and some other Kenyans (not all of them though) probably resembles most the concept of Chi Running where your goal is to run with relaxed body. I can often hear commentators saying that Kipchoge is so relaxed and smiling at the 40 km! Running relaxed is so much more fun. I've read a bit about chi running and they suggest to engage your deep lower abdominal muscles, so that they work hard to keep a proper pose. When these deep abdominal muscles take over maintaining proper pose, most of your other muscles in the body can better relax. I've read in some interview with Kipchoge that he said I quote "you need a very strong stomach" and what I think he meant by that are abdominal muscles that work very hard in his style of running. I feel that my body resilience works best when my body is relaxed. When the lower abdominal muscles work very hard I can relax my hip muscles better and spring mechanisms in the hips work more efficiently. I feel that I run lighter with less effort, though the abdominal muscles work hard and it is exhausting with time.
On January 26 2019 22:40 GoPlayTetriz wrote: Thanks guys for all the input, it's appreciated. I do like sprints, so I will keep in mind the uphill sprints. I do have a nearby athletics stadium and recently I got very fast over short distances, so fast running is not my issue, I struggle mostly with endurance
What affects ground contact time? I guess speed and cadence, or are there other factors?
At the moment most of my energy goes into strengthening core muscles. I try to activate my core muscles throughout all day no matter what I do (sit, stand, walk and even when I lie in bed) by maintaining a better pose that engages these muscles. I guess the stronger core muscle get the better runner it will make me. Although this becomes very exhausting sometimes, my hip muscles and lower abdominal muscles are so tired now. But from what I understand our core muscles are designed to be tense 24h/day and it will get better with time I just need to make them strong enough. The running style of Kipchoge and some other Kenyans (not all of them though) probably resembles most the concept of Chi Running where your goal is to run with relaxed body. I can often hear commentators saying that Kipchoge is so relaxed and smiling at the 40 km! Running relaxed is so much more fun. I've read a bit about chi running and they suggest to engage your deep lower abdominal muscles, so that they work hard to keep a proper pose. When these deep abdominal muscles take over maintaining proper pose, most of your other muscles in the body can better relax. I've read in some interview with Kipchoge that he said I quote "you need a very strong stomach" and what I think he meant by that are abdominal muscles that work very hard in his style of running. I feel that my body resilience works best when my body is relaxed. When the lower abdominal muscles work very hard I can relax my hip muscles better and spring mechanisms in the hips work more efficiently. I feel that I run lighter with less effort, though the abdominal muscles work hard and it is exhausting with time.
A big part of it is fatigue, when you get tired you are more likely to let your heel drop and make contact with the ground, you'll get better at springing off your toes as you build more stamina.
It sounds like you are on the right path since you are actively thinking about engaging the correct muscles for efficient running and otherwise staying as relaxed as possible. Kipchoge is the epitome of that.
I think the most important thing is to focus on form when running, especially at the ends of long runs and workouts. There are a lot of people who do mindless miles where they daydream or listen to podcasts or chat with running buddies. And then when they run workouts and get fatigued, they start using a desperate effort to hit predetermined paces rather than keeping a strong smooth form and running by feel. If you are regularly a mindful runner (doesn't have to be every mile you run) and more importantly if you practice good form when you are your most fatigued, that'll help you have good form when it matters in a race. Just like with the sprinting technique work, I'm a big believer that the majority of progress is available to be made when actually running.
Lunge matrix and leg swings (LM + LS) for warm up. And then some assorted exercises for post-run to work on strength and mobility (SAM).
Mindful running, sprint technique work and LMLS + SAM will get you 99% of the way to good form imo. Some people may need some coaching to really understand it all and do it correctly but I think the vast majority of people will end up having efficient form if they did those 3 things for a few years. Some special cases may need to really target a weak link in the chain if they are still sloppy a few years in.
I love Kipchoge not only for his running capabilities, but for his running spirit. He is my idol I relate to him much, he also wears the same Casio watch as I do, even two, see it for yourself!
So true about thinking on running form at the end of long runs. I feel my body and my muscles best then. When tired after a long run it is natural to try optimize the form, so that you run most efficiently. I've stopped listening to any music during workouts, I feel like it is a waste of my time if I don't focus entirely on the training.
Regarding the LM video - a comment of mine on the pose. The guy has a good pose, but in my opinion it's not perfect. With Kipchoge you can see his head with neck being pushed far backwards and it allows you to get even more straight, but it requires hard work of the lower abdominal muscles. It seems this is all connected, I feel it and it makes sense. Your core muscles start in your lower abdominal, go through hips, loins, long back muscles, arms, and end in your neck muscles. I feel that all these core muscles work best when activated together at the same time to create one strong combined muscle. If you don't push the neck with head backwards then your spine ain't really perfectly "straight", as the spine works as a whole I think. If you don't straight your spine in the top then it won't be perfectly straight in the bottom. A few months ago I've started hanging on a pull up bar (just hanging) and it helps me a lot to stretch my neck/arm/back muscles and get my body position more straight. While hanging I activate my lower abdominal muscles and keep my hands in line with my ears. Hanging on a bar is like a monkey hanging on a tree branch, I guess it's a natural thing for our bodies. I shouldn't overstretch or anything by just hanging, right?
I think improved running economy is something that helped me run my recent 10k PB. My friend who took photos of me on the last meters before the finishing line, commented that I didn't nearly look as beat up as last year. The photo series she took indicates much better running form compared to last year, when I was in better shape but only had half a year vs 1.5 years of running experience.
Funny, I discovered exactly these about 2 weeks ago, when I decided I need to do more supplementary work if I want to keep this running streak up and shoot for a 1:24 HM this year. Now I go out every morning and while my watch is searching for a GPS signal I'm doing the lunge matrix and leg swings, that part's real easy to get done daily. I need to do SAM stuff more regularly but I'm getting there.
Tomorrow is day 50 of my running streak and I was surprised that I already ran more in january (181km) than any other month last year, all while feeling fine and not really taxed at all, any small niggles that popped up were gone again after 2-3 days. I seem to be doing something right
Current plan: add 1 quality session per week, slowly increase the weekend long run and aim for about 200km in february, then see how I feel and maybe throw in a cut back week before hopefully increasing training load a little more in march.
Bonus: Faster Road Racing (Pfitzinger book) was in the mail this week and it's amazing how just reading about running boosts motivation for me
Well, I'm in the process of trying to unfuck myself. It's been quite a long journey getting here. Basically anxiety/stress/repressed stuff related started causing a variety of symptoms, starting with the palpitations/PVCs back in late 2017. Stress over that, as well as continued repressed stress, just built and even though at times I felt I had it under control I think it continued to fry me, and I continued having bizarre list of symptoms (the list is really ridiculous, it's insane what stress/anxiety can do to you) ranging from headaches, to GI issues, to random numbness, to tinnitus, etc.
Took a long time, and a decent number of doctor visits to more or less make sure, and mentally accept that there is no physical illness, and it's all psychosomatic. But either way, things really came to a head in mid December with a new symptom: twitching. Started in my foot, brain remember some connection between twitching and ALS, got a huge anxiety spike, twitching spread all over my body. Just random partial muscle contractions all over the place, all the time. Anything from baby ones I couldn't even feel to huge thumpers that almost moved limbs. Also had some pretty bad days with nausea lasting most of the day. Eventually calmed down a bit, but I think what was remaining was fried. Started to cramp up randomly in various places, and started developing exercise intolerance. At it's worst, I did a solid hour ride...and was laid out with legs that felt "tight", very similar to the feeling you would have after smashing it for 5 hours and waking up the next morning, except it lasted for about 4 days.
Bottom line, repressed stress + anxiety really mess up the body. I think I've figured out pretty well what the issues causing the stress were, and am at a place where I accept that I'm not dying of anything to help with the health anxiety side of it. I think it's a matter of fixing those issues + time and this will eventually improve.
My plan right now is to start with 3 days a week of just 15' of exercise, lightish intensity, and build back to 5 days a week, then gradually add time for a few months (hopefully the timetable is months, rather than years) as decreasing anxiety and return of normalcy allows.
@L_master Sorry to hear that. I wish you good luck in getting back into form. I've also had a month break due to health issues. It's mostly GI issues with bad chronic inflammation which gets worse when doing hard physical activity. So I am now starting slowly, not many km, just trying to run every morning. Btw. nice starcraft casting.
I started doing a proper running program at the start of this year.
All of last year my main source of exercise was lifting at the gym but I found it really boring , I don't like the atmosphere and the people who regularly go to my gym and I wasn't eating enough to put on a lot of muscle. Plus i'd get really down or stressed if I missed a session.
I don't think i'd suit getting big anyway, I've always been quite lean and prefer that body type. In school I was ok at endurance sports so I decided to move over to running.
So far I've really been enjoying it. I like the freedom and sense of well being that comes with just putting on your trainers and getting outside. Much better than being in a sweaty room with artificial lights and terrible music. I started off the year doing a 5km in 25 minutes but last Saturday I did my first park run which is a 5km with a couple of hills. Ended up with a 21:15 and finished 12/ ~200 people which I was really happy with. The community around running seems really friendly and supportive. Plus there is a nice competitive aspect to it.
My friend suggested I try a half marathon so I've got that lined up for the beginning of April and i've been training for that for about 3 weeks. I don't really know how it's going to go but I can do 5:00/km pretty comfortably so I want to hit 1hr 45 and finish strong, mostly just try and enjoy the experience. If anyone has advice for your first half marathon i'd appreciate it.
After that I'm not sure what I will move on to, if I really like the half marathon I will sign up for more and make that my focus distance, if not I think I will look at 5k or 10k competitively depending on what's available.
My current training is running 4 times a week and gym three times a week, I end my gym sessions with 30 minutes of cross training like stairs/rowing. My gym sessions are full body workouts twice a week with my 3rd gym session being a core session which I do on the same day as my long run so I get to have a full rest day once a week. I do a really light work out every morning just a few push ups and ab wheel , just to wake myself up more than anything.
I find the gym more enjoyable now I'm going less. I don't feel the pressure of the stupid macho culture , i'm not going there to sculpt my body , i'm going to support my running which gives it more purpose and makes it more motivating.
Strava and a GPS watch have really helped as well, helps me see the progress and adds a competitive aspect to every run.
The weakest part of my program is my diet. I'm 6ft and at the start of the year was 79kg I think that's too heavy for a runner, I'm down to 76kg currently, not sure what the ideal weight is but I want to cut out the crap food and just eat a bit cleaner. I have no idea at the moment if I should be eating at a calorie deficit to cut weight or keep my calories up to make my training better.
Anyway , long post over just wanted to share how it's going and ask for any advice.
20:50 for the 5k park run today. Was pretty muddy and slippy all the way around but I'm happy with a new pb. I'm sure I will hit a plateau soon but at the moment I'm enjoying watching my times get lower every week.
On March 01 2019 18:42 KelsierSC wrote: If anyone has advice for your first half marathon i'd appreciate it.
I'm not the most experienced runner and I only ran one half so far (2nd one also coming up in april) but your plan sounds good to me. With your recent PB in the 5k your aerobic fitness should allow for a 1:35-37 if you're able to race the half equally as good and your legs have the endurance. But if you're not as experienced with pacing the much longer distance and haven't done many longer runs it's really unlikely you'll be able to get that close to your theoretical limit. So personally in this position I'd count breaking 1:45 as a successful race and be super hyped if going sub 1:40.
Since you want to finish strong I think aiming for the 1:45 is a good choice, especially for a first half. If you aim for 1:45 and can speed up a little towards the end and come in at 1:43 it'll feel way better than coming in at 1:42 while you went out at 1:40 pace but struggled to hang on and suffered way too hard for the last half hour.
My own training is going pretty well so far. It's so funny how different people struggle with different things at times... My biggest problem right now is to avoid being stupid! I know I mustn't push too hard and injure myself, but especially with the race dates coming closer (10k in 3 weeks, half in 5 weeks) it's so hard to contain myself at times and not want too much and not ignore the signs my body gives me.
Current plan: add 1 quality session per week, slowly increase the weekend long run and aim for about 200km in february, then see how I feel and maybe throw in a cut back week before hopefully increasing training load a little more in march.
My plan worked out really well, finished february @221km - second highest mileage month ever despite being so short!
This wednesday I hit day 75 of my running streak and everything's almost perfect. My hip started acting up (again) after the long run 2 weeks ago and hasn't been perfect since. I cut down the long run distance last weekend and this week was reduced distance as planned. I didn't think I could feel this rested after running 40km in a week Now comes the tricky part to not force the planned 3 weeks of higher volume & intensity if the hip gets worse again. Fairly certain it's a hip flexor/glute imbalance and I gotta keep working on it. Fingers crossed!
Plan for the next 2 months: 3 weeks of around ~60k with 1-2 quality sessions and a weekend long run. The last long run will be replaced with a 10k race after which I'll begin a taper for the half 2 weeks later. I feel my fitness has improved since january and I'm somewhat confident I can break 39 in that 10k. Depending on how close I get to 38 I'll actually go for 1:24 in the half or adjust plans accordingly. Funny side note: that 10k will be day 100 of my running streak, so I'm weirdly excited for it even if it's just a fitness check for the more important half marathon.
I plan to take it real easy after that for 2 weeks to recover both physically and mentally before the next 10 week cycle for another half on the last weekend of june.
On March 01 2019 18:42 KelsierSC wrote: If anyone has advice for your first half marathon i'd appreciate it.
I'm not the most experienced runner and I only ran one half so far (2nd one also coming up in april) but your plan sounds good to me. With your recent PB in the 5k your aerobic fitness should allow for a 1:35-37 if you're able to race the half equally as good and your legs have the endurance. But if you're not as experienced with pacing the much longer distance and haven't done many longer runs it's really unlikely you'll be able to get that close to your theoretical limit. So personally in this position I'd count breaking 1:45 as a successful race and be super hyped if going sub 1:40.
Since you want to finish strong I think aiming for the 1:45 is a good choice, especially for a first half. If you aim for 1:45 and can speed up a little towards the end and come in at 1:43 it'll feel way better than coming in at 1:42 while you went out at 1:40 pace but struggled to hang on and suffered way too hard for the last half hour.
My own training is going pretty well so far. It's so funny how different people struggle with different things at times... My biggest problem right now is to avoid being stupid! I know I mustn't push too hard and injure myself, but especially with the race dates coming closer (10k in 3 weeks, half in 5 weeks) it's so hard to contain myself at times and not want too much and not ignore the signs my body gives me.
Current plan: add 1 quality session per week, slowly increase the weekend long run and aim for about 200km in february, then see how I feel and maybe throw in a cut back week before hopefully increasing training load a little more in march.
My plan worked out really well, finished february @221km - second highest mileage month ever despite being so short!
This wednesday I hit day 75 of my running streak and everything's almost perfect. My hip started acting up (again) after the long run 2 weeks ago and hasn't been perfect since. I cut down the long run distance last weekend and this week was reduced distance as planned. I didn't think I could feel this rested after running 40km in a week Now comes the tricky part to not force the planned 3 weeks of higher volume & intensity if the hip gets worse again. Fairly certain it's a hip flexor/glute imbalance and I gotta keep working on it. Fingers crossed!
Plan for the next 2 months: 3 weeks of around ~60k with 1-2 quality sessions and a weekend long run. The last long run will be replaced with a 10k race after which I'll begin a taper for the half 2 weeks later. I feel my fitness has improved since january and I'm somewhat confident I can break 39 in that 10k. Depending on how close I get to 38 I'll actually go for 1:24 in the half or adjust plans accordingly. Funny side note: that 10k will be day 100 of my running streak, so I'm weirdly excited for it even if it's just a fitness check for the more important half marathon.
I plan to take it real easy after that for 2 weeks to recover both physically and mentally before the next 10 week cycle for another half on the last weekend of june.
Thanks for the advice. Good luck with your training and races, you've done a really impressive volume of running so far.
Thanks for the advice. Good luck with your training and races, you've done a really impressive volume of running so far.
Well it's all relative.
When I first started out (1.5 years ago) I hit around 30km in a week and was impressed with myself, only to notice the next week, that it just wasn't a volume I could keep up without quickly injuring myself.
Last week was my planned cut back week and I noticeably recovered while still running 41km. The ~65km I plan to hit the next 3 weeks is my current limit and for some people that would be a lazy off season week where they couldn't run because they were fighting the flu...
Running taught me a new kind of patience with myself, to look at others for inspiration but always remember to not get frustrated just because I'm not as fast and maybe never will be. Instead focus on improving myself and "run my own race".
Maybe not fast compared to others but I was happy to crack 6 minutes for a mile the other day, (5:54), first time running sub 6 for a mile in 2+ years. Feeling really good lately, just need to make sure I don't start trying to do too much too soon...
Very poorly paced run. I was too hyped up for the start and took off, coming through the first 1k in 29:30 pace. It was too much and I couldn't stabilize without the pace slipping a lot for a while. I finally got back on pace at the end in order to salvage it a little but sub-31 wasn't in the cards at that point.
But it gives me hope that if I start at the correct pace at my goal race (a 12k in May) that I can run a good race. I started so much faster than I needed to and it wasn't crazy. I think if I can manage to start my next race well then my goal pace will feel very comfortable at the start.
Very poorly paced run. I was too hyped up for the start and took off, coming through the first 1k in 29:30 pace. It was too much and I couldn't stabilize without the pace slipping a lot for a while. I finally got back on pace at the end in order to salvage it a little but sub-31 wasn't in the cards at that point.
But it gives me hope that if I start at the correct pace at my goal race (a 12k in May) that I can run a good race. I started so much faster than I needed to and it wasn't crazy. I think if I can manage to start my next race well then my goal pace will feel very comfortable at the start.
Sounds like you did a pretty good job recovering and kept strong mentally despite the mistake. Glad to hear the overall fitness indicators and sensations seem to be good. Blaze it!
How is your local competition or competition in general in races you enter? Around here it'd be fast enough to win most races and while there's not much prize money, you could probably make enough to not have to pay for running shoes anymore.
My own training is going really well and I have a 10k coming up next sunday, I'm pretty certain it's PR time again! Really curious how it's going to turn out, my legs are so beat up and it's been super windy the past 3 weeks, now I have a tough time estimating how fast I'm capable of running. From a low 39 to comfortably breaking 38 nothing would surprise me right now.
How is your local competition or competition in general in races you enter? Around here it'd be fast enough to win most races and while there's not much prize money, you could probably make enough to not have to pay for running shoes anymore.
My own training is going really well and I have a 10k coming up next sunday, I'm pretty certain it's PR time again! Really curious how it's going to turn out, my legs are so beat up and it's been super windy the past 3 weeks, now I have a tough time estimating how fast I'm capable of running. From a low 39 to comfortably breaking 38 nothing would surprise me right now.
It's pretty damn fast. Not many people could ever run that quick, period.
If you've been progressing workouts, or even running similar in tougher conditions, it safe to say you ought to go faster. How much faster? Yea, hard to say. Post some workouts and the conditions for those workouts and I'll give a prediction.
Usually I'm not too bad at predicting how it's going to go myself, but the bonkers weather for the last couple of weeks had completely thrown my feeling off. Yesterday was finally a nice & sunny day with little wind and I did a 5k Tempo run - which now has me confident I can break 38! Did the 5k in 19:12 (GPS) and while I was working hard, I didn't exhaust myself and definitely could've held that pace longer. I don't know the course but it appears to be flat, mostly roads. 4 laps of a 2,5km loop, officially measured so times are eligible for rankings. Now if I factor in race day adrenaline, caffeine, wearing racing flats, being better rested and not having to dodge dogs & strollers...not breaking 38 would already be a little disappointing.
So the plan is to go out at 3:45ish pace and then go by feel/heart rate.
It just seems a little scary and hard to believe that I should be able to take a whooping 2+ minutes off of an unexpected PR that's only 9 weeks old. FWIW my watch already predicts a 36:02, even getting within a minute of that would be crazy. Anyways I'm excited!
On March 22 2019 00:30 Nocci wrote: Usually I'm not too bad at predicting how it's going to go myself, but the bonkers weather for the last couple of weeks had completely thrown my feeling off. Yesterday was finally a nice & sunny day with little wind and I did a 5k Tempo run - which now has me confident I can break 38! Did the 5k in 19:12 (GPS) and while I was working hard, I didn't exhaust myself and definitely could've held that pace longer. I don't know the course but it appears to be flat, mostly roads. 4 laps of a 2,5km loop, officially measured so times are eligible for rankings. Now if I factor in race day adrenaline, caffeine, wearing racing flats, being better rested and not having to dodge dogs & strollers...not breaking 38 would already be a little disappointing.
So the plan is to go out at 3:45ish pace and then go by feel/heart rate.
It just seems a little scary and hard to believe that I should be able to take a whooping 2+ minutes off of an unexpected PR that's only 9 weeks old. FWIW my watch already predicts a 36:02, even getting within a minute of that would be crazy. Anyways I'm excited!
If you're doing a tempo at 6:15 pace....you're definitely looking at 37 or better for 10k if the course is comparable to what you did the tempo on and conditions are decent.
If not, then you're running those tempos too hard.
How is your local competition or competition in general in races you enter? Around here it'd be fast enough to win most races and while there's not much prize money, you could probably make enough to not have to pay for running shoes anymore.
If I just picked a race at random, I'd surely be the heavy favorite to win. The majority of road races here are not very competitive. But there is a series of races that are more competitive. USATF is the governing body for running in the US and there are regional divisions of USATF. These regional races are good for runners like me who are fast but not pros, while any national competition is more for pros. I am lucky that for the region I am in, most of the races are fairly close to me (I live near San Francisco). All of the serious runners in clubs show up to these races and virtually no other race. So the situation is that there are particular races where all the serious runners go and then every other race is relatively uncompetitive.
The 10k actually wasn't one of those races but I've signed up for several regional USATF races now. Looking at past results, to win a 5k you need to run 14:40's. To win a mile, around 4:15. So they're right where I want to be now. Perfect competition for me.
There are also a few major races in my area where pros do show up and run seriously fast times, like 1:02 half marathon. The 12k I'm racing also always has real pros.
So I've signed up for a 5k tomorrow just where I live, to see where I'm at. I'm a bit anxious as I have no idea how fast I will be running, and it's a pace I haven't ran in months, but we'll see. I don't expect anything too crazy fast because the path is not really not straight, but at least weather should be pretty good. Also congrats Nocci, that seems like a crazy fast improvement !
Sub 23, about 22'45. Pretty happy, I had enough energy in the end to do a pretty fast sprint once I saw the finish line (movescount says I peaked at 19km/h there lol). Sub 22'30 was definitely doable, maybe even a little bit faster. At least I have a speed to work with now Also I had one of my pupil doing the race, he did sub 20' and so another of my pupil encouraged me at 4,2km which was pretty helpful^^
Sooo...I don't want to call it a miserable race, but it was quite meh
38:42
List of excuses:
a) out of my control: - the course had 5 tight turns (90° or more) 2 of which were on gravel and slowing down/reaccelerating definitely cost a lot of strength, then multiply that by 4 (4 laps of a 2.5k loop) - also pottholes - hottest day of the year so far and while not too hot overall, my body isn't used to it yet and that jump of 15ish °C (about 30F) made me feel like I was thrown into the middle of summer - constant slight headwind on the 2nd half of the loop, probably didn't cause too much physical resistance but was clearly noticeable and messed with my head, each lap a little more
b) my own fault (mostly) - did not adjust for the factors mentioned above and went out too fast, stubbornly ignored my too high heart rate and went by pace for too long, so instead of slowing down earlier I crashed on the 3rd lap - ate too much for breakfast - was not in peak shape, my resting heart rate jumped from mid 40s to mid 50s for the last 2 days and while I don't feel anything coming on, something's definitely off - when I crashed and had to let the guys in front of me pull away, it was a solo effort for the rest of the race until the last km
Pacing, each lap 2.5km:
9:13 9:39 10:09 9:39
2nd km was really stupid, ran 3:39 despite that sharp almost u-turn and headwind, by km 3 my heart rate already crept up to 178 which is not something I want to see until the last 2 km. Especially on km 6 my head just wanted to quit and I simply couldn't push anymore. Then managed to recover after km 7-9 at a flat 4:00 pace and found the strength again to run the last km in 3:42. Definitely one of my worst pacing efforts so far
For comparison: Running my january PB I averaged a HR of 173 and peaked at 182 during the finishing kick (temps around freezing), today I averaged 171 and peaked at 178 on the first lap (around 18°C or 65F).
On March 23 2019 15:54 L_Master wrote: If not, then you're running those tempos too hard.
While I may have gotten a little carried away on wednesday (yay good weather, lets gooo faaast), my HR fluctuated between 165 and 169 averaging a 3:50 pace for that 5k(including some stairs & coming to a standstill to let people pass on a bridge). Averaging a slower pace at a higher HR today means something's not quite right...
Anyway, enough whining, positives:
- still a big PR by 1min11sec after only 9 weeks, also unofficial PRs for anything from 1 mile to 10k - finished 3rd in my age group, stood on the podium and got a little trinket - running streak day 100! - still convinced I'm in sub 38 shape
On March 25 2019 04:52 Nocci wrote: Sooo...I don't want to call it a miserable race, but it was quite meh
38:42
List of excuses:
a) out of my control: - the course had 5 tight turns (90° or more) 2 of which were on gravel and slowing down/reaccelerating definitely cost a lot of strength, then multiply that by 4 (4 laps of a 2.5k loop) - also pottholes
Wow. That's a shitload of turns, especially if you mean 180 degree turns, or limited space for a 90 degree turn on a path. Those would be very annoying and at 20 of them would definitely cost you 20-30s minimum. Possibly more.
If this course was on roads, and it messed you up that bad, especially if it was road 90 degree turns and not 180s, then it's a technical thing you can improve on. Learn to take a racing line, wide on entrance, through apex, wide on exit. Doing this will limit any acceleration/deceleration issues and cost you minimal time.
b) my own fault (mostly) - did not adjust for the factors mentioned above and went out too fast, stubbornly ignored my too high heart rate and went by pace for too long, so instead of slowing down earlier I crashed on the 3rd lap - ate too much for breakfast
- when I crashed and had to let the guys in front of me pull away, it was a solo effort for the rest of the race until the last km
Yea, too much food can throw you off, especially if you don't eat 2-3 hours before the race. Obviously will affect you if you have GI issues mid race.
- was not in peak shape, my resting heart rate jumped from mid 40s to mid 50s for the last 2 days and while I don't feel anything coming on, something's definitely off
- hottest day of the year so far and while not too hot overall, my body isn't used to it yet and that jump of 15ish °C (about 30F) made me feel like I was thrown into the middle of summer - constant slight headwind on the 2nd half of the loop, probably didn't cause too much physical resistance but was clearly noticeable and messed with my head, each lap a little more
First thing I will say is yes, definitely, when it comes to hot weather. Today was more warm weather for you. It shouldn't, and probably didn't, have a massive effect. Ideally it could be 5C cooler, but 65 isn't terrible for 10k. We get days like this in Colorado all the time, where normal is 0-10C days, and then all of a sudden we get 15-20C. This usually has a minimal effect for me on both PE and HR. When it starts to get about 20C, especially above 25C, that's where it becomes very noticeable. A jump from say 15C to 30C is much worse in my experience than a jump from 0C to 15C, which almost goes unnoticed.
That said, I certainly notice HR differences running in the heat. When we get a 25-30C day in a season where it's normally 10 or 15C I would say I notice HR goes up 10bpm higher after about 5'-10', and will easily elevate higher and not recover as well.
The confounder here is that resting HR increase. That's a big jump. In my opinion, it's either you're going to come down with something in the next 2-4 days and you're seeing the body alright starting to fight that. If not that, then it's a sign you've pushed a little too hard/slept or recovered poorly/too much stress/poor eating/etc. and that you definitely need a few easy/clean/recovery days to get back on track. A 10bpm RHR increase usually isn't random fluctuation. It's usually a "something's going on in the body" as you said.
Pacing, each lap 2.5km:
9:13 9:39 10:09 9:39
2nd km was really stupid, ran 3:39 despite that sharp almost u-turn and headwind, by km 3 my heart rate already crept up to 178 which is not something I want to see until the last 2 km. Especially on km 6 my head just wanted to quit and I simply couldn't push anymore. Then managed to recover after km 7-9 at a flat 4:00 pace and found the strength again to run the last km in 3:42. Definitely one of my worst pacing efforts so far
Yea, that's pretty quick on a 2nd km into a headwind if you're target is around 3:45-3:50. You mentioned HR before, but I don't necessarily think that's a great way to run. It's variable enough that I don't use it for pacing, it's more of a second or third opinion of what's going on. No way you were feeling cruisy and comfortable after that 3:39...missing that and pressing on definitely cost you. Seems like on that pacing you probably could have run 38 to 38:15 with a really ideal subtle negative split.
And yea, that mental weakness in km 5-7.5 definitely cost some seconds.
For comparison: Running my january PB I averaged a HR of 173 and peaked at 182 during the finishing kick (temps around freezing), today I averaged 171 and peaked at 178 on the first lap (around 18°C or 65F).
Need some more info on that first race. What were your splits. You went out here at close to 36:00 pace, which is definitely faster than you can run based on the given information. It would also be interesting to note a difference in HR warming up in January vs today's race to compare where you were at before heat was potentially a factor.
On March 23 2019 15:54 L_Master wrote: If not, then you're running those tempos too hard.
While I may have gotten a little carried away on wednesday (yay good weather, lets gooo faaast), my HR fluctuated between 165 and 169 averaging a 3:50 pace for that 5k(including some stairs & coming to a standstill to let people pass on a bridge). Averaging a slower pace at a higher HR today means something's not quite right...
Also, your HR is almost exactly like mine on the bike. A good controlled threshold effort is usually 160-165 depending on the day, drifting up towards 165-170 by the end depending on the day. Same with race maxes, usually a steady effort like that will leave me in the mid 170s, with a finishing sprint pulling me up to the 180s.
When I was doing more running, I didn't an HRM then, so no running/race HR data sadly
It's worth noting that in a race like this, if you go out hard and peg HR....it doesn't come back down. Even if you were to slow down to 90% or so of threshold it might not come down after being pegged, i.e. it might still say 175 after that first 2.5k even if you had run even 4:10kms the rest of the way. Definitely won't come down running between 3:50-4:00 in any significant way.
It probably does, in conjunction with RHR increase, mean something though. As mentioned before, you're likely going to be getting sick in the next few days, or your training stress/recovery balance is tipped too much toward the stress side. In either case, 2-3 days at light jogs (30'-40' around 9:00-10:00) pace, or just some walking, would be advised. In my experience those kinds of jumps are almost always a sign your body needs to rest, and adding in a race effort today is only going to increase that need.
Anyway, enough whining, positives:
- still a big PR by 1min11sec after only 9 weeks, also unofficial PRs for anything from 1 mile to 10k - finished 3rd in my age group, stood on the podium and got a little trinket - running streak day 100! - still convinced I'm in sub 38 shape
This is all awesome! That's really nice progress, especially starting with already very respectable times. Knocking a minute from 40 -> 39 is a big difference compared to a new guy going from 60 -> 59. Good training and good work, also good work on the streak. If you do get sick...don't be stupid about it though! Maybe 1 super easy mile max. Fingers crossed you don't though!
Based on what you described today, you're definitely in sub 38 shape. There is little doubt of that.
On March 24 2019 20:07 corumjhaelen wrote: Sub 23, about 22'45. Pretty happy, I had enough energy in the end to do a pretty fast sprint once I saw the finish line (movescount says I peaked at 19km/h there lol). Sub 22'30 was definitely doable, maybe even a little bit faster. At least I have a speed to work with now Also I had one of my pupil doing the race, he did sub 20' and so another of my pupil encouraged me at 4,2km which was pretty helpful^^
Good run man! 20km/hr isn't a blazing kick, but yea if you did that for more than like 5s it definitely means you left a little in the tank and have room to go faster!
Been trying to get back into it, and was getting there but then came down with a cold about 2 weeks ago. First 3 days seemed normal, mostly sore throat and then it was fading, but then towards the end of day 3 I got very stuffed nose/congestion/savage headache/some muscle soreness which continued for 2 days and then gradually improved. Took 4 days very easy just resting up after that and saw my RHR return basically to normal.
But, either way, after this I put on my HRM again since it's time to train for real....and I've been seeing some ridiculously high HRs. Like today I was doing low tempo (80%), for runner guys thats a little easier than MP, and seeing 165 in the first 5'. 165 is normally a threshold+ deep in the sufferbox HR. Warming up was very high too...around 145 at very easy power. Normally would be 120-130.
In all honestly I'm not sure about my HR now. I have plenty of data and know what to expect under normal circumstances....however due to "life" I'm very very out of shape, but based on where I seem to be, these should still more or less be my training zones.
Oddly, resting HR is back very close to normal, maybe 2-3 beats high, but not far off. I also don't feel off. It's just....my HR is screaming. Dunno. I'll give it a few more days and go from there.
On March 24 2019 20:07 corumjhaelen wrote: Sub 23, about 22'45. Pretty happy, I had enough energy in the end to do a pretty fast sprint once I saw the finish line (movescount says I peaked at 19km/h there lol). Sub 22'30 was definitely doable, maybe even a little bit faster. At least I have a speed to work with now Also I had one of my pupil doing the race, he did sub 20' and so another of my pupil encouraged me at 4,2km which was pretty helpful^^
Good run man! 20km/hr isn't a blazing kick, but yea if you did that for more than like 5s it definitely means you left a little in the tank and have room to go faster!
What's the next race/target/goal?
Yeah it's not exactly fast, but it started to feel pretty tough only in the last 500m, and of instead of a sprint you'd have told me to keep a my pace 500m more, I feel I would have done it np. 22'48 is the official time btw, so 22'30 is still a bit optimistic, even though I started among the last of the 140 people, I had about 10 very sharp turn and I messed up one quite badly (I run it everyday, and the door they opened in the park wasnt the one I'm used to). Anyway excuses excuses, I'm pretty proud of my snail pace and it felt very good ! Next is finishing up my aerobic training, introducing real T-pace in a few weeks, I-pace about 4-6 weeks later, build it up, and then follow Daniel's blue plan... and see when that takes me. Probably run at least 10k and another 5k in between when I feel like it to check on my progress and for motivation.
On March 25 2019 05:55 L_Master wrote: Been trying to get back into it, and was getting there but then came down with a cold about 2 weeks ago. First 3 days seemed normal, mostly sore throat and then it was fading, but then towards the end of day 3 I got very stuffed nose/congestion/savage headache/some muscle soreness which continued for 2 days and then gradually improved. Took 4 days very easy just resting up after that and saw my RHR return basically to normal.
But, either way, after this I put on my HRM again since it's time to train for real....and I've been seeing some ridiculously high HRs. Like today I was doing low tempo (80%), for runner guys thats a little easier than MP, and seeing 165 in the first 5'. 165 is normally a threshold+ deep in the sufferbox HR. Warming up was very high too...around 145 at very easy power. Normally would be 120-130.
In all honestly I'm not sure about my HR now. I have plenty of data and know what to expect under normal circumstances....however due to "life" I'm very very out of shape, but based on where I seem to be, these should still more or less be my training zones.
Oddly, resting HR is back very close to normal, maybe 2-3 beats high, but not far off. I also don't feel off. It's just....my HR is screaming. Dunno. I'll give it a few more days and go from there.
I've experienced this as well. Coming back after a lot of time off, my heart rate sometimes gets bonkers. The other day it got up to 184 while doing a strong but kinda controlled effort while my previous highest HR on bike was 180 doing 2-3min completely full-out efforts. Sometimes I average >155bpm on endurance rides and its not uncommon to be >160bpm and breathing comfortably only through the nose. So yeah, untill you get a bit into shape heart rate is very unreliable and my advice would be to go purely by feel. And its not like at this point its extremely important to 100% nail the intensities.
@corumjhaelen @Nocci Congratulations on your PRs, sounds like you're doing great progress, just keep at it!
I guess there's no point in overanalyzing the race but I threw together pace chart & heart rate reading with the splits so I gotta post it now Most likely my body was/is fighting something or my electrolytes were out of whack, maybe overeating on saturday had sth to do with it and if I recall correctly, my sleep wasn't too good either on the weekend. RHR readings for the last 7 days were 41, 45, 42, 52, 61 (race day), 47 and back down to 46 today. No symptoms of anything though, just really tired.
By the way here's my Garmins VO2max estimate (always run with a chest strap) progression from mid december till now: https://imgur.com/a/8Wkryr0
Started out at 53/54 (january race bumped me from 54 to 55) and the last 2 weeks I've been around 59.
But I have a bonus question about cycling that's puzzled me for a while: Last summer I was on vacation with a big group of friends and on two days we rented some mountainbikes. I was pretty certain, that I was one of the fittest guys in the group but on the first couple of km (slight & steady incline, like 2% or so) I really struggled and slowly dropped to the back of the pack. I totally expected our cyclists to have an easier time but some of the non-cycling girls passed me with a smile and even they looked surprised that I was working so hard. Then it got steep, like almost 10% on average with much steeper bits in between. Oh and all of a sudden I was having a blast! I passed everyone but our fittest guy, even the other cyclists.
Same thing the following week, steadily gaining 300m on the 20km ride to a high alpine road felt miserable, actually climbing 900m on the following 13km was fun and I caught myself thinking about getting a road bike (way too scared of the descents though). Oh and it's not like I ever got out of the saddle and used my muscles differently, I rode everything sitting down.
That's...a bit odd. If this was on road, with road bikes for everyone it would make alot more sense.
But everyone on gravel, with MTB, and on gentle incline it's hard for you to keep up? No that would be pretty wierd, especially since you say even the girls were passing you.
Usually it's a fit runner goes out for the first few times and is amazed that dudes that look pudgy and 80-100kg are blowing by him on flat ground. Then he hangs okay on climbs. Lots of factors there to explain that.
MTB, slight incline, probably gravel, and having girls borderline drop you....thats wierd.
Well we weren't racing and ofc I don't know how hard they were working. I just remember lots of smiles around me while I felt I was working way harder than I should be.
The second ride was confusing in a different way. Once the steep part started, I dialed in to an effort comparable to a tempo run, HR slightly above 160. I really enjoyed myself until there came a flat part (~1.5km) along a reservoir lake, I thought I'd keep the effort level the same but I just couldn't keep my HR above 150 until the climb started again.
I guess in both cases a HR in the 140s on the flats felt waaaayy harder than it should have, while I had no trouble at all pushing harder on the climbs. Cycling's weird to me...
On March 27 2019 05:39 Nocci wrote: Well we weren't racing and ofc I don't know how hard they were working. I just remember lots of smiles around me while I felt I was working way harder than I should be.
The second ride was confusing in a different way. Once the steep part started, I dialed in to an effort comparable to a tempo run, HR slightly above 160. I really enjoyed myself until there came a flat part (~1.5km) along a reservoir lake, I thought I'd keep the effort level the same but I just couldn't keep my HR above 150 until the climb started again.
I guess in both cases a HR in the 140s on the flats felt waaaayy harder than it should have, while I had no trouble at all pushing harder on the climbs. Cycling's weird to me...
Some people do describe this. Most people can push themselves a little harder on hills, but there are some that are even split and rare exceptions of people who can do more downhill. The reason for this basically has to do with the pedal stroke, and how it changes. Basically as you go faster, you have more kinetic energy and also their is less force slow you down (uphill adds more from gravity).
What this means is that when you are pedalling along on flat ground, especially the faster you go, you are basically just imparting power to the pedal at a very small portion of the stroke, keeping the bike going. In the case of a climb, you have much less inertia and have basically the entire pedal stroke to put down power. So, this ends up basically meaning you impart more force in a shorter time for a flatter, time trialling like pedal stroke, and less force over more time while climbing.
Flat riding tends to recruit a little more fast twitch fiber, whereas climbing is a little more slow twitch, but it's a subtle thing. It's not like sprinter vs marathoner. Heck triathletes are like your ideal form of a slow twitcher, but they are all excellent at applying flat power. Bottom line is that there ARE difference between flat pedalling and uphill pedalling, but they are usually more prominent at higher speeds (e.g. 20-50mph) and usually not quite as dramatic as what you are seeing.
Best guess is that for whatever reason, your ability to use quads and buttocks to lay down quick(er) power in your pedal stroke is very low comparatively. Why that is, I can't tell you because what you're describing sounds like at least a 30%, perhaps as much as a 50-60% difference in power output ability, if non cycling/fitness ladies are going faster than you easier on the flat, but then you're beating them by 20, 30, 50% up these climbs.
I genuinely cannot get over how weak I am right now. This is rough. Admittedly, it's been a long road off. I was in decent shape, within 90-95% of my peak early 2017 shape, last September. Things really kicked off for the worse with some viral guy and then long term sinusitis. I road occasionally throughout that time. For the first 1-2 months after I would still have some decent efforts. By January, even my harder efforts were what would generally be short, moderate sessions (i.e. I was going much easier, not doing as hard of intervals). I road even less, and often fairly easy, throughout January, February and through mid March.
Trying to get genuinely back at it now. So basically I have like 2 months significantly reduced volume, but okay intensity, 2 months of reduced volume and reduced intensity, and then 2 months of very low volume with moderate intensity. Not sedentary, but certainly nothing any decent athlete would look at as "training".
It's bad now. I'm down a minimum of 15% from then, might be closer to 20%. I'm sure some of it will come back rather quick if I get in the swing of things....but it's a massive adjustment. A cruising easy pace (think MP + 90s) now elicts a threshold level heart rate. It's so drastic I can't really even go off pace/power. I think for now I'm just going to chyll and do some workouts based off combination of PE and HR.
But damn, add in the 8kg weight gain....and ugh. I've gone from the equivalent of perhaps a 16:30 5k level guy on the bike to maybe a 23:00 5k level on the bike. Between the "easy pace = FTP" and getting passed by some weekend warriors that's a rough adjustment on the psyche.
I knew I would lose some fitness, but I didn't realize I was doing so little as to return to a similar level as to where I was when I first started training, period. I guess the moral of the story is long term breaks, even with reduced training, can effect you a TON.
On March 27 2019 13:34 L_Master wrote: ...that's a rough adjustment on the psyche.
It sounds really tough, especially if your peak isn't that far in the past and your fitness loss is that massive. Having been fit in the past is a somewhat double edged sword in that situation. On the one hand you know what you've been capable of and feel frustrated/impatient about your current fitness level, on the other hand you can still get back into shape far faster than someone who's pushing their limits to new heights for the first time. All I can do is preach patience!
When I first got back into exercising 2.5 years ago I could barely do 2 pullups while I was able to do a one-armed pullup 10 years ago. The first half year was a constant struggle with overuse injuries and my mind having trouble adjusting to my bodies capabilities after like ~8 years of sedentary life. Once I relaxed and made no specific performance goals but set my goal to not overdo it so I could train at least 3 times a week, I lost track of time, half a year was gone and I was suddenly in a pretty good shape again.
Sadly the beginner tip "don't compare yourself to who someone else is today, but to who you were yesterday" doesn't work so well in that situation.
Be patient and if you manage to relax and not stress about performance goals, it'll acutally come back faster than you think
This Saturday I broke 20 minutes for 5k. A new PB. 19:59 but it still counts. It was surprising as my training has been focused on the half marathon coming up this Sunday. The training has been going well , I missed one long run due to a bad cold. Unfortunately it was due to be my longest run of the training program so it really sucks missing it. I still felt it was the right call not to train whilst sick and take an extra recovery day. As stated i'd like to break 1:45 but more important is the experience and finishing the run strong. After the marathon I will have a week of recovery/light training and then I want to focus on 5k. I'll update after the marathon , i'm really excited for it.
On April 02 2019 17:16 KelsierSC wrote: This Saturday I broke 20 minutes for 5k. A new PB. 19:59 but it still counts. It was surprising as my training has been focused on the half marathon coming up this Sunday. The training has been going well , I missed one long run due to a bad cold. Unfortunately it was due to be my longest run of the training program so it really sucks missing it. I still felt it was the right call not to train whilst sick and take an extra recovery day. As stated i'd like to break 1:45 but more important is the experience and finishing the run strong. After the marathon I will have a week of recovery/light training and then I want to focus on 5k. I'll update after the marathon , i'm really excited for it.
Good run! Always a very nice number to sneak under. Smart call not training while sick, that's an easy way to stay sick for a long time or, even worse, bringing myocarditis in the picture. Don't stress about one run either, it's not going to make a big difference. Missing one training session never does, and no ever has a perfect build up. It's about the sum of all the work you put in going into the race.
It's not surprising you ran a better 5k if you've been training for the HM. They are both primarily aerobic events. Good half training will have a little more fatigue resistance/endurance at high aerobic pace in it, but by and large the training helps either event.
1:45? I'm going to assume you meant 1:35. 1:45 is like a casual jog for you. Waste time of time to show up, pay money, and then jog a race you have been training hard for.
Unless you're running like 15mpw, or get the flu right before, or there is a hurricane you'd have to do something crazy stupid to not break 1:45. Shoot for 1:35. Maybe 1:40 if you're running under 30mpw.
On April 02 2019 17:16 KelsierSC wrote: This Saturday I broke 20 minutes for 5k. A new PB. 19:59 but it still counts. It was surprising as my training has been focused on the half marathon coming up this Sunday. The training has been going well , I missed one long run due to a bad cold. Unfortunately it was due to be my longest run of the training program so it really sucks missing it. I still felt it was the right call not to train whilst sick and take an extra recovery day. As stated i'd like to break 1:45 but more important is the experience and finishing the run strong. After the marathon I will have a week of recovery/light training and then I want to focus on 5k. I'll update after the marathon , i'm really excited for it.
You got this! 1:45 was the conservative approach with your old 5k PB. Now that you already broke 20, 1:40 would be the conservative goal if you don't know how well you will handle the longer distance, 1:35 or faster certainly possible. You seem to be in similar shape like I was last year for my first half in april (41:13 10k in january but failed to break 20 in a 5k in may) and I ran 1:32 back then.
I have my own half marathon coming up on sunday. Weather forecast is excellent and the race organizers even moved the start time ahead to 9:30am to ensure best possible conditions. I also had a very encouraging run on saturday, did 17k with 10k tempo in the middle where I aimed for slightly below HM race effort and ended up with my 3rd fastest 10k ever in 40:23 with a relatively low avg heart rate of 161. That rekindled my hopes of averaging a 4:00 min/km pace in the race.
And then yesterday happened...
I went out for an easy 5k recovery run, stopped at a traffic light and after picking up again I felt a sudden sharp pain in my right shin. Went away and came back again like every 10-20 steps, took maybe 300-400 meters and a short walking break to realize, that continuing this run would be the dumbest thing possible. It actually wouldn't have been possible, it hurt THAT bad. Even walking back home was really painful and weirdly enough not every step but the pain would fade to almost nothing for about a minute and then come back again with a sharp sting. Last 500m walking the pain thankfully subsided but I was already freaking out about missing the race this weekend.
Today I haven't felt any pain yet even bouncing up & down stairs (I spend a lot of time on my feet during work, most days I get up to 10k steps without running). I'll later go out for some super short run to test how things feel. Why does this shit have to pop up now in the 3rd week of reduced mileage? I'll be royally pissed if I have to drop out or can't start on sunday...
Yeah, 1h45 is a goal I could set myself pretty soon (granted the idea of my current training is to get good endurance before getting faster, while doing my utmost to avoid injuries... and so it's hoping for instance Daniels tables are not way too ambitious for me), and I ran my 5k a LOT slower than you. To give you an idea, the ever very optimistic Daniels credits you with a 1h31min30 goal ! Aim lower, but not that much^^ Ouch Nocci, really get it easy... Do less the next days, even if you feel good today, that won't compromise all your previous work as you know well !
My concern with trying to go quicker on race day is that my "race pace" training days has been geared around 1:45 and I don't want to make the mistake of going out too hard trying to reach a PB i've not trained for and wipe out half way through the run. I haven't been training that long and i've never done a half marathon so my long distance conditioning is probably a lot worse than indicated by my 5k.
Good luck with your race Nocci I hope that you are recovered and ready . Are you aiming for a PB? Let us know how it goes.
On April 04 2019 16:44 KelsierSC wrote: Thanks guys I appreciate the support,
My concern with trying to go quicker on race day is that my "race pace" training days has been geared around 1:45 and I don't want to make the mistake of going out too hard trying to reach a PB i've not trained for and wipe out half way through the run. I haven't been training that long and i've never done a half marathon so my long distance conditioning is probably a lot worse than indicated by my 5k.
Good luck with your race Nocci I hope that you are recovered and ready . Are you aiming for a PB? Let us know how it goes.
Define "wipe out". If you mean go out at say, 1:35 pace, and then struggle the last 5 miles in 40 or 45', then yes there is a chance this could happen. Think about it this way, you know what 9' pace feels like. It's easy as hell. No matter what there is no way youll slow down worse than that.
Moreover, you're not going to blow up running say 1:35 (1:30 would be different) pace. Physiologically that pace is fine for you. What might happen is you won't have the fatigue resistance to handle that pace for 1:35. So, you get a little tired and can't quite push as hard. You're still going to have been running a nice, comfortable aerobic pace the whole time, as opposed to say...going out the first mile in 5:45 in a 5k and blowing up.
This isn't the marathon. You're not going to run out of fuel and spectatularly blow up staggering through the finish line at barely a walk, it's not long enough to exhaust your energy stores. Your muscles might just get a little too tired to handle the entire thing at that higher lactate level and you slow down 15-60s per mile.
Bottom line is if you go out at something sensible (1:35-1:38) you're not going to blow up. Worst case is you fade and run 1:42-1:45. Good chance you run well under 1:40.
Tuesday I had this stupid pain, wednesday I went out for 2k very easy and wasn't sure if I actually felt something or if it was just paranoia that my leg would explode any second. Yesterday I did another easy 3.5k and felt it again, not as intense but still there and very distinct. Not the typical bone skin inflammation pain along the inside of the shin (familiar with that from my early running days) but very localized, pressure sensitive. According to my expert (=read google MD) medical opinion, everything points towards a stress fracture. It would only make sense, considering I'm almost up to 700km this year, which is by far the most I've ever run in such a time period, all while ramping up comparatively quickly. Regardless of the actual diagnosis I don't need to be a medical professional to realize, that running through that kind of pain = stupid & harmful in the long run, so I was about 95% certain that I won't start on sunday.
Being hesitant I thought the easiest way to 100% convince myself to listen to the voice of reason, would be the dumbass approach to go out and inflict pain on myself once more, you know, just to be sure...
So I just did 5k, to make sure something hurts I kept increasing the pace. I noticed I had been doing 3k at race pace, pretty much pain free and breathing relatively easy. I was so confused I actually grunted loudly out of frustration because of the absence of pain Only on the final 800m I noticed it coming back slightly and now there's a slight dull pressure.
I'm still almost certain it's a stupid idea to run the race, but couldn't this run just have been painful as it was supposed to be and make the decision easy? Stupid body...
I hope reason wins over recklessness, just don't know yet, I really was looking forward to the race and I'm not known for my good impulse control Either way I'm taking the rest of april off, maybe half of may as well, just to be sure and not ruin the rest of the year.
On April 07 2019 04:22 Nocci wrote: Fuck it! I'll go out there tomorrow morning and see how it goes, I can still drop out if it starts to hurt again. Hope I don't break anything
This is probably the way to go. If the pain gets noticeably worse, just pull the plug.
Did my first half marathon and finished with a 1:38. I'm really pleased with this as I surpassed my expectations.
My race plan went great for the most part. Did my own thing pace wise for the first 5k and I was around the 1:40 pace makers so I just stuck with them until about 14km.
Took on some dried fruit at 4 miles which gave me a stitch unexpectedly. Maybe I should have eaten a bit earlier as I was working harder than my training runs. But it passed quickly.
I decided to kick up the pace about 9 miles in. I had planned for 10 but the race was going well. I just focused on catching the next person ahead of me and once I caught them aimed for the next man. Overtook about 10-12 people this way. Finished strong with good speed at the end.
There was a nasty hill at 12 miles which i hadnt planned for and made my early kick seem foolish but my legs held and I overtook people on the hill.
It was a great event I'm not sure of my next move but happy to have finished with a respectable time. Not sure of my exact time and finish position but I'll edit the post when it's released. Edit. 68th place with a 1:37:45
Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Good luck to everyone else with upcoming races
On April 07 2019 21:50 KelsierSC wrote: Did my first half marathon and finished with a 1:38. I'm really pleased with this as I surpassed my expectations.
My race plan went great for the most part. Did my own thing pace wise for the first 5k and I was around the 1:40 pace makers so I just stuck with them until about 14km.
Took on some dried fruit at 4 miles which gave me a stitch unexpectedly. Maybe I should have eaten a bit earlier as I was working harder than my training runs. But it passed quickly.
I decided to kick up the pace about 9 miles in. I had planned for 10 but the race was going well. I just focused on catching the next person ahead of me and once I caught them aimed for the next man. Overtook about 10-12 people this way. Finished strong with good speed at the end.
There was a nasty hill at 12 miles which i hadnt planned for and made my early kick seem foolish but my legs held and I overtook people on the hill.
It was a great event I'm not sure of my next move but happy to have finished with a respectable time. Not sure of my exact time and finish position but I'll edit the post when it's released. Edit. 68th place with a 1:37:45
Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Good luck to everyone else with upcoming races
Great race! Knew you could go well under 1:45. Sub 1:30 is probably a good next goal. Could definitely get it with some good training!
Nice race Kelsier, good to hear your race went according to plan! It feels so good when you can finish a race strong
Maybe my leg pain scare was a blessing in disguise, because I had an awesome race as well.
It was pouring and only about 7°C, I wore my shortest shorts and a racing singlet, really questioning my clothing decision while waiting for the start of the race. But 10 min into the race the rain stopped and aside from some puddles and the already wet feet, pretty much perfect conditions for racing.
I was stuck in traffic for the first 2-3k and I was really annoyed at some people who were clearly going to finish at 2h+ but starting way up front. Only later did I realize that many of those were elders actually competing for national age group titles.
Being worried about my leg I didn't go all out and tried to take it easy, first km in 4:17 and then settled into a roughly 4:00 pace. Everything felt surprisingly comfortable, leg didn't act up so I just tried to keep the effort comfortably hard. Official timing mat split at 10k was 41:23. Right after the halfway point came a nice ~3km stretch with a very mild decline (like 0,5%) where love going fast in training so I cranked out some 3:50s...and somehow kept up the pace!
I got faster and faster towards the end, getting some inofficial PRs (beating my recent 10k PR, going 38:27 in the second half, 15k in 58:40) and finishing in 1:24:04!
That was actually my original goal, which I was already doubtful of because of my disappointing 10k race 2 weeks ago, add in the leg pain popping up this week and I'm super surprised & pleased with my performance
Speaking of the leg: It held up quite well, only started noticing a dull pressure around 15k+ which didn't get much worse. It feels ok now but I'm definitely taking off the next 3 weeks. I always have a ground contact time imbalance like 52l/48r if running very easy and it gets closer to 50/50 the faster I go. Today was the first time ever that my right foot spent more time on the ground, it was nothing conscious but I was probably trying to tread more carefully with my right leg to not aggravate it. Usually I don't pay any attention to those metrics, but I found this very interesting.
Well, got a good 5 weeks in now of stuff. Eating very, very healthy right now. No processed food at all, tons of varied vegetables and greens, a little fruit, healthy oils (coconut/EVOO), some fish + some grass fed meats. Minimal grains and dairy. Some white rice and/or potatoes on hard training days for carbs. It's made a huge difference. It's stupidly satiating, sugar cravings are reduced massively, and I just feel quite a bit better. Down 4kg from 78 to 74kg, which I'm happy with. 4kg to go to see a weight where I can be competetive, but probably another 10kg to go to hit a true race weight.
Training wise, the first 3 weeks were awful. I basically so no improvement at all, and was absolutely dying at efforts that would have been an easy effort before. Last two weeks though fitness jumped up and has started coming around. I'd say I'm back at 90% or so of my average level over the past few years, and probably 80-85% of my absolute peak fitness in 2017.
Thinking I'll be on track to start jumping in some races in May once school ends, and if all goes well I'd like to be in as good form as I've ever been in when I peak in September.
At first I wanted to start in March, then i stayed way longer for my exchange semester. After I came back I had to deal with a lot of stuff, so I delayed my purchase further. But my birthday is coming up in may, so my parents bought me a roadbike. I got the Stevens Tabor yesterday and did a tour of 30km with my dad today.
I had such a blast, weather was not ideal, a bit windy but at least dry. No sun though. Gotta buy some equip (shorts, sleeves etc as recommended in the old thread). But man. I was riding the last weeks my dads trekking bike which costed like 400-500€ 10-15 years ago and its such a huuuugggee difference in enjoyment. Unbelieveable. I gonna try to build a bit of stamina over the next weeks so maybe end of may i can make a bigger 2-day tour to a place thats ~50km away from where I live now.
That would be amazing.
P.S: anyone mounting their phone for navigation on their roadbike?
So I started Daniels blue plan last week, starting at vdot 43 given my 5k results. The two Tpace went really well, the last 400m were obviously harder than the first, but I was far from my limit. First Ipace (4*4' with 3' jog in between) went pretty well, I was also on a track (pretty happy to have found one I'll be able to regurlaly use btw), and while it was taxing, it did feel well. Today though was a bit different, it felt a lot harder, the last 4' were tough, even though I did manage to stay on pace. I have three explanations for that : front wind on fractions 2 and 4, I wasn't on a track, but on a road, so not as flat as a track (but really nothing steep either, just a little 1m bump in the middle), and I was more tired because I move Q1 from tuesday to wenesday (wont do that again I guess) and I had a pretty tough climbing session thurday that certainly didn't help to recover during a shorter time. BUT, the strange thing is my HR, which was around 174-175 last week during the last 2min of each interval, but only at ~169 this week. I find this pretty strange, I thought being more tired would mean a higher HR for similar pace. Any idea ?
Also congrats to everyone on their very impressive times. Also Nocci, I hope your leg feels good and that you're back to training
On May 04 2019 01:01 corumjhaelen wrote: So I started Daniels blue plan last week, starting at vdot 43 given my 5k results. The two Tpace went really well, the last 400m were obviously harder than the first, but I was far from my limit. First Ipace (4*4' with 3' jog in between) went pretty well, I was also on a track (pretty happy to have found one I'll be able to regurlaly use btw), and while it was taxing, it did feel well. Today though was a bit different, it felt a lot harder, the last 4' were tough, even though I did manage to stay on pace. I have three explanations for that : front wind on fractions 2 and 4, I wasn't on a track, but on a road, so not as flat as a track (but really nothing steep either, just a little 1m bump in the middle), and I was more tired because I move Q1 from tuesday to wenesday (wont do that again I guess) and I had a pretty tough climbing session thurday that certainly didn't help to recover during a shorter time. BUT, the strange thing is my HR, which was around 174-175 last week during the last 2min of each interval, but only at ~169 this week. I find this pretty strange, I thought being more tired would mean a higher HR for similar pace. Any idea ?
Also congrats to everyone on their very impressive times. Also Nocci, I hope your leg feels good and that you're back to training
Hard training can depress HR. If you look at guys racing the grand tours, their HR is often rather depressed in the last week.
Of course, lower HR at a given intensity can also just be a sign of fitness improving. Being on the road is significantly harder than the track, assuming normal synthetic vs asphalt. If the track is asphalt, the maybe not so much.
On May 02 2019 02:01 MarcoJ wrote: At first I wanted to start in March, then i stayed way longer for my exchange semester. After I came back I had to deal with a lot of stuff, so I delayed my purchase further. But my birthday is coming up in may, so my parents bought me a roadbike. I got the Stevens Tabor yesterday and did a tour of 30km with my dad today.
I had such a blast, weather was not ideal, a bit windy but at least dry. No sun though. Gotta buy some equip (shorts, sleeves etc as recommended in the old thread). But man. I was riding the last weeks my dads trekking bike which costed like 400-500€ 10-15 years ago and its such a huuuugggee difference in enjoyment. Unbelieveable. I gonna try to build a bit of stamina over the next weeks so maybe end of may i can make a bigger 2-day tour to a place thats ~50km away from where I live now.
That would be amazing.
P.S: anyone mounting their phone for navigation on their roadbike?
Nope. I usually know the roads I'm riding. If I was doing big rides and didn't know the lay of the land I can see where that would be nice.
Sounds promising, glad you're making progress again!
Food is sth I struggle with at times. Weight is not really a problem for me but damn do I feel like crap when I load up on chocolate and gummibears. It drags down my mood which in turn makes me crave more sugar...vicious cycle and I've been a major sugarhead in the past.Thankfully I've been "clean" again since easter, cutting out all refined sugar & and almost all grains, no booze, paying more attention to the quality of everything else, going organic whenever I can afford it.
I got a new toy in the Garmin Index Scale. I used to step on my old scales every couple of weeks when I felt like it, not really caring much since it always hovered around 69-72kg for the last year. I think it's going to make me pay more attention to my weight and what I actually consume, at least for a while. Get up, pee, step on the scale...aaand it's synched to Garmin Connect. I love more data points!
Back in march I was super surprised when I was below 70kg despite eating tons of crap for 2 weeks. Only then did I realise that those stupidly strong cravings might have come from underestimating my caloric needs due to increased mileage, not the absence of sugar in itself.
On May 04 2019 01:01 corumjhaelen wrote:
BUT, the strange thing is my HR, which was around 174-175 last week during the last 2min of each interval, but only at ~169 this week. I find this pretty strange, I thought being more tired would mean a higher HR for similar pace. Any idea ?
Also congrats to everyone on their very impressive times. Also Nocci, I hope your leg feels good and that you're back to training
Well HR can vary a lot (given a similar effort/pace) depending on a ton of factors, like temperature, time of day, fatigue, glycogen depletion... I distinctly remember a tempo run early this year where I ate something that totally messed up my digestion and I was super bloated, on top of that I slept terribly and went out really early in the morning because I couldn't sleep anymore anyways. I felt like crap but worked really hard and remember not even hitting 160s while the effort felt like I should be scratching 170. My watch confirmed something being off by bumping up my VO2max estimate by 2 points after that run
My leg is... I wanna say mostly ok but I don't quite trust the peace. I started ramping up again (after the HM I went 15k, 20k, last week 55k and this week I'm up to 61k with 12 more planned tomorrow), no intensity added yet, just collecting kilometers. I can definitely feel it at times, like right now. Interestingly I don't feel it while running, 18k today felt completely fine. If it gets worse again I'll go see a doctor this time.
Back in march I was super surprised when I was below 70kg despite eating tons of crap for 2 weeks. Only then did I realise that those stupidly strong cravings might have come from underestimating my caloric needs due to increased mileage, not the absence of sugar in itself.
I will admit I have not found this to be the case...when my diet is really good. When I'm eating primarily meat, vegatables (10+ cups/day), modest fruit, and moderate amounts of starchy carbs (carrots, sweet potato, etc.) I almost don't get hungry, even eating 1500 kcal/day.
The moment carbs, or junk food go up or start to come from crappier sources I find that I start getting hungrier when on a deficit.
My leg is... I wanna say mostly ok but I don't quite trust the peace. I started ramping up again (after the HM I went 15k, 20k, last week 55k and this week I'm up to 61k with 12 more planned tomorrow), no intensity added yet, just collecting kilometers. I can definitely feel it at times, like right now. Interestingly I don't feel it while running, 18k today felt completely fine. If it gets worse again I'll go see a doctor this time.
I just realized we haven't seen anything from Bonham so far this year, and nothing on strava for 3 months. I know he had been struggling on and off with injuries the past couple years, and was due for some sort of surgery/rest from a sfx in his foot....but that was 5 or 6 months ago
Stream of consciousness race report for Bay to Breakers 12k
At the start of the year I was hoping to be able to run this race sub-5 pace. Training and lifestyle didn't go as well as I had hoped so my preparation wasn't what I pictured. But I've still been more resilient than ever before so I am in the best shape I've ever been (for distance events anyway). And while I wasn't able to instantly go from awful training and lifestyle to ideal training and lifestyle, I am progressing.
I think there was an outside shot of still hitting my goal but when the forecast came in, we were looking at a substantial headwind for the point-to-point course, so I thought it'd be unwise to stick to my plan. This is pretty normal for the race as we run toward the ocean and the wind is almost always blowing west to east from the ocean to land. So the best you can hope for is a calm day but we've had stormy weather this week. The roads were also wet with some big puddles here and there, but it didn't rain on us during the race.
In the first half mile, two packs formed. The front pack was probably starting around 4:40 pace and the second pack, which I joined, started pretty conservatively at a little above 5:00 pace. First mile is flat and the second mile Strava has 39 ft net uphill. It's the kind of mile that seems flat but you might find yourself naturally working a little harder or going a little slower. The pack opted to go a little slower so our first two (GPS) mile splits were 5:01 and 5:10. Comfortable.
I was using Race Screen with the intention of taking manual splits when I saw mile markers. But I didn't see every mile marker (first one I saw was mile 4). The kind of banners they had for the mile markers were getting blown by the wind making them not as easy to spot. I'm also very bad at taking in my surroundings during a race. And the race is through downtown SF so the banners don't stand out the way they would among plainer surroundings.
The third mile begins with a continuation of the slight uphill of the second mile, and then you reach the infamous Hayes Hill. It's about 170 feet uphill in a little over 1k. You go through several intersections which are flatter so you are hitting some higher grades than whatever it averages out to. The final part of the hill is the steepest. The pack slowed down appropriately and while I was definitely working harder than on the previous miles, I got to the top of the hill thinking it wasn't that bad. Immediately after the hill is a steep downhill, then a gradual uphill begins just before the 3rd mile ends. My legs had the strength to use the downhill properly and make up some time. Split was 5:28.
I think the fourth mile might be the hardest in a way. It is gradually uphill (Strava has 60 ft) and the Hayes Hill has just fatigued you. You have to be prepared to run a relatively slow split on the 4th mile even though it doesn't seem that uphill. I stayed with the pack and we split 5:10, which I thought was good.
The 5th mile is in Golden Gate Park and is mostly flat or slightly downhill until the end, when you have a little hill. Net -6 feet. This is where I faded. I regret not trying harder but I was afraid of pushing it so I ran a bit conservatively. I lost touch with the pack, which was only 3 of us at that point, and started running solo. Split 5:09 when I should've been back down to 5:00 pace or so like the guys I lost touch with.
The 6th mile starts with a little bit of uphill before the remaining 2+ miles of the course is essentially all flat or downhill. This mile felt like it went on so long that when I saw a mile marker banner, I thought that I'd missed one and had actually done 2 miles and only had a half mile to go, but that wasn't the case. I felt like I really needed to have only a half mile to go. Split 4:56 for a -109 ft mile.
So for the 7th mile I just chugged along, afraid to push it because I felt like I still had a long way to go, but knowing that I wasn't going as fast as I wanted to. Some people passed me and I didn't risk racing them. 5:07 for a -57 ft mile. Really bad. I need to learn how to smoothly descend into greater discomfort at this point in a race.
With a half mile to go I felt a little more confidence and increased my effort a bit. I took some looks behind me and there was no one else close, so it was just about finishing strong. 4:49 pace for -52 ft in a half mile. 38:30 for an average pace of 5:10. 12th overall.
I wanted this to be the race where I ran hard without fear and see what happens. But when I get in the race, I get afraid of blowing up and jogging it in, which I hate doing, so I don't push as hard as I should. When I felt like I needed to have done 7 miles and found out I only did 6, I kinda just ran another mile and it was fine. It makes me wonder how many more of those miles I could have run. In retrospect it seems like I backed off to something like HM effort when things got hard.
I'm proud of my performance because it's an improvement but I'm not satisfied with it. Not the execution of the race nor the preparation. But I'm headed in the right direction and I have a lot of races planned this year, a lot of which I don't care as much about, so plenty of opportunity to push hard and find my limits and be okay with blowing up. I think I will make a HM in November my goal race (Monterey) and treat everything else I'm running as preparation for that.
edit: also I'm 99% sure I have exercise-induced asthma that makes my airway feel tight at the end of races. something i've just lived with and never considered was a condition. if that's actually making me get less oxygen, well there are pretty effective medications so i can get that fixed and maybe finishing with a strong effort wont be so tricky anymore
2019 "Endurance" (really? 'actually stymied my search) thread has been an interesting read, glad to see NonY's FRIGGIN CRUSHIN IT. Hope things are going well with you, L_Master.
My 2018 was kinda silly. Several race attempts at getting into trail ultra running, several mediocre attempts. I'm having to get used to training while sick again (I remember hating it during college running) since my kid's socializing often and going to childcare occasionally. The boogers, the night-time wake-ups, good indicators I'm going to have another week+ of rough or non-existent training. I did a local shop's training challenge and ran/walked at least a mile every day in January (woo!) then signed up for a 50M race in early May and promptly got sick twice: once with stomach bug that left me sweating and racked after puking so hard I thought I dislocated a rib, and once with a hacking cough that lasted WAY too long, ~4 weeks of family sickness that kept us sleeping on three different levels of the house to try to keep from waking each other up when we coughed.
So, I dropped down to the 25M option, and that was a good call. Mile 21 bonk was really hard, realized I'd only had ~100kcal in previous miles (though I did do a pretty decent breakfast beforehand), ate some delicious apples and followed whoever I could at that point toward the finish line. My buddy ended up doing a 8:15 50M, super pleased to have run with him for his first 20M-ish.
There's an intense 50K in my home state of Montana that I'm hoping to be fit for by September. It looks like it's going to be a cool, wet summer in Colorado = stoked for good training weather. Wish me luck, and will-power to keep training hard and sleeping/living/eating smart. IF that effort goes well, I'll try to snipe a few more races after.
'Keep inspired by whatever running form you like, whatever workout you love the feel of, and whatever doesn't increase the mental stress.
Wow, you all had some really great results the last 2 months! Congrats on your half marathons Nocci and Kelsier, those are some great times. More congrats to NonY for an insane 12k race that's faster than most people's 10k times and to mentat for toughing it out on a 25 mile (trail?) run after what sounds like a nasty illness.
Montana seems like a neat place to run with its mix of plains and mountains and Colorado sounds like trail paradise from everything I've seen. I'm steadily building up my endurance and one day in the next few years would like to do a trail ultra in Colorado as a destination/vacation trip.
Hope the rest of you are enjoying some nice early summer weather and enjoying the outdoors!
Haven't gotten back in the groove since my half marathon early april. I did ramp back up too quickly in early may when my right shin was still giving me some discomfort. I assume I changed something in my running form because of the insecurity concerning my shin, as a result I developed plantar fasciitis in my right foot. Now it's not a terrible case, first step out of bed hurts like a bitch but it fades very quickly and it's not noticeable for most of the day, but it did keep me from actually training. I debated breaking my running streak to accelerate healing but I stuck to minimal mileage for the past 3 weeks so I'm up to #167 as of today. At least I managed to not make it worse and it's slowly improving to the point where I dared to do 2 short workouts (4*400 on sunday and 4*800 today), still keeping weekly distance below 25k.
I really had to remind myself several times of my #1 running goal this year:
1. Don't be stupid & listen to my body. Take time off when needed...
Damn this can be hard when there's a goal race up ahead I decided to toss all time goals for my half (june 30th) out the window and look at the bigger picture, so I could finally relax and enjoy cross training way more.
On the plus side I feel fitter than ever before (aside from the slight decline in peak aerobic fitness from april) and I'm quite happy with my body. Posing alert: https://imgur.com/a/oSVau9h I should work some on chest & shoulders (got decent lats from climbing/pullups), but considering I only did minimal bodyweight fitness this year, don't lift at all, add in my age (37 soon), I can't complain. Most runners my pace look skinnier and I feel like I still have some room to get both faster and a bit bigger at the same time, like gain 1-2kg muscle mass and run a sub 1:20 half. Next year!
I've also been closely tracking my weight for the past 5 weeks and let it fluctuate some (68-71kg) and see how I feel. When I go down to 68 (pic above) I'm oh so hungry ALL THE TIME, like I eat, feel full but the hunger just doesn't subside. Just one kg more and the world is fine.
On May 31 2019 04:59 Nocci wrote: All right, may summary time: frustrating month
Haven't gotten back in the groove since my half marathon early april. I did ramp back up too quickly in early may when my right shin was still giving me some discomfort. I assume I changed something in my running form because of the insecurity concerning my shin, as a result I developed plantar fasciitis in my right foot. Now it's not a terrible case, first step out of bed hurts like a bitch but it fades very quickly and it's not noticeable for most of the day, but it did keep me from actually training. I debated breaking my running streak to accelerate healing but I stuck to minimal mileage for the past 3 weeks so I'm up to #167 as of today. At least I managed to not make it worse and it's slowly improving to the point where I dared to do 2 short workouts (4*400 on sunday and 4*800 today), still keeping weekly distance below 25k.
I really had to remind myself several times of my #1 running goal this year:
1. Don't be stupid & listen to my body. Take time off when needed...
Damn this can be hard when there's a goal race up ahead I decided to toss all time goals for my half (june 30th) out the window and look at the bigger picture, so I could finally relax and enjoy cross training way more.
On the plus side I feel fitter than ever before (aside from the slight decline in peak aerobic fitness from april) and I'm quite happy with my body. Posing alert: https://imgur.com/a/oSVau9h I should work some on chest & shoulders (got decent lats from climbing/pullups), but considering I only did minimal bodyweight fitness this year, don't lift at all, add in my age (37 soon), I can't complain. Most runners my pace look skinnier and I feel like I still have some room to get both faster and a bit bigger at the same time, like gain 1-2kg muscle mass and run a sub 1:20 half. Next year!
I've also been closely tracking my weight for the past 5 weeks and let it fluctuate some (68-71kg) and see how I feel. When I go down to 68 (pic above) I'm oh so hungry ALL THE TIME, like I eat, feel full but the hunger just doesn't subside. Just one kg more and the world is fine.
Yep. This is pretty common. You're one of the rare people that posts a pic and genuinely has no weight they need to lose. Trying to drop to 68kg is just lean enough that you're body is truly starting to be deprived of what it needs and hunger goes through the roof.
I'm genuinely suprised you are 5'9" though. You look jacked by runner standards, but not exactly big. Compare this to me (same height) at 62kg/137lbs: https://i.imgur.com/g3SHZdf.jpg
I had another 2-5kg to go to reach your level of leanness so we are talking 20-25lbs of difference between us. That's a ton.
Great race Nony and thanks for the full mile by mile breakdown, it's interesting and inspiring to read an elites perspective.
I've made good progress since my HM. I decided that the longer distances aren't interesting and don't play to my strengths. I've been focusing on 10k. It's a good chance to run quick.
I have a 10k in August that i'm doing with a few friends and i'm treating that as my goal race, would love to get a sub 40. Got a 10k next weekend that I can use as a benchmark and see how realistic my goal is.
I did a casual 5k race last weekend and got an 18:40 on a course with a couple of hills, huge PB for me and I ended up winning the race. A lot of the decent runners around here didn't show up for that weekend or go for a big time so I got lucky , winning times can be around 17 minutes. It was still a great feeling to cross the finish line first.
I've upped the number of days I run to 5/6 per week. listening to my body about rest days. Aiming for 50km per week , most days I just grind out miles, nothing near race pace but I have 2 quality training sessions a week. Usually an interval session and a tempo session. I run evening times so i've been going to the gym 3 mornings a week before work. Not lifting heavy, just trying to build strength and avoid injuries.
Not going to post photos because this isn't instagram. I'm 6ft, 69 kg. Down about 10kg from the start of the year. Feel like i'm in the best shape i've ever been.
Finally cracked 20 minutes for a 5k last night! 19:56, got it by 4 seconds lol.
The crazy thing was conditions were really hot (85F) and it was an evening race (6:30pm) not a morning so it was not exactly PR weather conditions by any stretch but my training recently has been going well and I felt so good I went for it and managed to hang on.
On June 03 2019 04:42 LuckyFool wrote: Finally cracked 20 minutes for a 5k last night! 19:56, got it by 4 seconds lol.
The crazy thing was conditions were really hot (85F) and it was an evening race (6:30pm) not a morning so it was not exactly PR weather conditions by any stretch but my training recently has been going well and I felt so good I went for it and managed to hang on.
Good effort, always a rewarding milestone to break.
Thanks for the recap Nony, really interesting to read such insights. I was hoping to get under 22' for 5k this sunday, and then shift my focus toward hills because I'm going to do mountaineering in July... training was going really well and I had a really nice long week-end in Annecy, where I did a bit of hiking and really easy biking... But I think I went wayy too fast downhills saturday during the hike... (700m in 30min with few real technical part isnt really fast though...) and not only did I get sore muscles yesterday (that's ok) but I woke up this morning with a strong pain in the knee... walked a bit while waiting for my train and it helped, but I'm scared it will last
Did an unplanned 5k yesterday, actually this very same race was my first race ever 2 years ago. It's a huge casual running series all over germany for local businesses to send their employees for some teambuilding fun, pretty non-competitive but still fun to say "I came in 42nd out of 5.7k people!" A friend had an extra bib so I decided to check how much fitness I lost since april. Turns out my very minimal daily mileage helped conserve most of it!
5.2k in 19:34 so that's 3:46/km, roughly my 10k pace (which I faild to actually hit...) from 2 months ago
Pacing wise this was even my best 5k, about 2k in I felt absolutely miserable but mostly kept a pretty even pace, could hold it together and hit the highest avg heartrate (176) in a race so far.
I have mixed feelings about my leg though. It didn't hold me back at all but feels pretty shitty today. Definitely going to keep volume & intensity low for the time being.
Argh horrible 5k race. Started to fast, had to retie my shoelace twice... after the second time around 3.4km I really felt horrible... even walked a bit... just sub25. I just feel terrible
Good race Nocci, always good to hit a decent one when it's an unplanned race, gives you confidence for any upcoming races. don't let a bad race get you down corum, you've analysed where it went wrong , on to the next.
Had my 10k this morning. Wanted to get close to 40 minutes went off at 4:00/km pace just settled in for 5km and felt strong through halfway. I got told I was in 11th place about the 5km mark. The course becomes quite undulating at this point but I think i'm stronger on hills than most people in the field, picked up my pace and passed a few people into 7th. Kept my pace until 8km and decided that I was going to just leave it all out there, last 2km i did in 3:49 and 3:40 with a good finish. Final time 39:14 6th overall. field was about 240 runners.
I was really happy with the preparation and the execution of the race. Obviously really pumped with a big PB and to join the sub 40 club. Position wasn't a big deal as I don't think it was a hugely competitive field but still nice to get a top 10.
Doing the same race in August , I had planned to try and break 40 at that race but now i think 38:30 would be a good target.
Spring race season is over. Normally I only race a single 10k in April but this year I decided to try out more races and I really enjoyed all of them. It definitely got my trail appetite going and I want to spend my summer leisurely exploring the mountains and trail networks around my area so no races planned.
TL;DR Race Summary: Mar. 16 – 24k Trail, ~850m vert, 2:10:30 16th overall Apr. 14 – 10k Road, 37:03, 10k PB by over 1 min (same course) May 5 – Half-Marathon, 1:26:32, first half May 25 – 18k Trail, ~850m vert, 1:56:54, 7th overall
The first trail race wasn’t anything special. There was some decent elevation gain but only 2 really steep climbs. The trails weren’t that technical but it was a lot of rolling sections with a few sustained but shallow climbs. An overall very runnable trail race.
The 10k, as I mentioned earlier, is one that I have done 5 times now with 4 in a row from 2016. This is my city’s big 10k run with 40,000+ runners so if you aren’t near the very front, there is a lot of people dodging for 2km. This year I was seeded into the very first corral and so I did not have to do any dodging. We also had the luxury of open road to warm up on and not be confined standing still waiting for the start. The hill was fine as it always is, but I can never feel confident to bomb the downhill side as quickly as I should. After about 6-6.5km I started having to work a lot harder to keep the pace consistent. I was constantly looking at my watch for pace and mentally flogging myself to keep going. I was very happy with my time and race effort that day. I for sure could have shaved 4 seconds to get under 37 but whatever. Progression from 2016 to 2019 was 43:03, 39:12, 38:05, 37:03
I wanted to do a half marathon this year to see how I would do in a longer race and test my endurance more. I did plenty of long runs and hilly runs over the winter as I was also training for trail races simultaneously. My strategy was to keep about a 4 min/km pace knowing I would fluctuate and hope to come in under 1:30 with a stretch goal of 1:25. I was doing well until about 15k when I must have lost focus on my pace or lost some energy or something since I felt fine but all of a sudden my pace had slowed too much. I got back up to it and felt OK and was able to maintain until the end. Lack of experience hurt me here as I felt I could have run faster and made my 1:25 goal but I was afraid of pushing the pace too much and then slowing down on the back half. Also nutrition and timing was a factor here as well. I had a bunch of water and electrolyte at the stations which helped me immensely but I brought 1 gel, which I think was enough for me this race, although I ended up eating it too late (around 18K, well after my slow down). I think if I had taken it at around 13-14k I would have had an easier time. Still I am overall very happy with my time and my performance and execution of the race.
The trail race was soooo much fun. There’s a longer version of 35k that I want to do next year. Race day was rainy which was a factor as it made the rocks and roots slick and a bit iffy from my perspective (ie safety) and also I was wearing glasses so it affected my vision quite a bit although it was manageable. The race starts with a climb for 8k, which I had no trouble with. Then there was a steep and technical descent for 1.5k that was fun but harrowing. I had never run on anything like this before so I lacked confidence. After the halfway and bit more descending we got to some varied terrain, going from rock field to soft dirt to scattered rocks and roots, large boulders with the elevation constantly changing. This was tough on the legs and I almost cramped up a couple of times. I leap-frogged with the guy in 6th for a bit but he sped by me on the last downhill section, although I closed the gap a bit in the last 2k heading back to the finish as it was more runnable.
The takeaway from these races was mostly experience and confidence. I have built up quite a strong fitness level but need to run on some more trails and practice the longer distances some more.
EDIT: Also I'm still biking a fair bit, mostly as commuting but a few fun rides of 1.5-2 hrs. Averaging ~100km/wk in addition to all the running. Now that it's summer I'll likely be riding more as heat running is not as enjoyable for me and hoping to incorporate cycling as a trail warm-up (~15-20k and hilly each way to most trailheads).
On May 10 2019 07:16 L_Master wrote: I just realized we haven't seen anything from Bonham so far this year, and nothing on strava for 3 months. I know he had been struggling on and off with injuries the past couple years, and was due for some sort of surgery/rest from a sfx in his foot....but that was 5 or 6 months ago
I live!
Sorry for the radio silence on my end; I deliberately unplugged from online running discussion (and Strava) while I was recovering. Why torture yourself with what you want but can't have, you know? The good news is that I'm finally getting back into actual running.
For L_Master and anyone else who cares, here's a quick timeline of my injury, my rehab, and where I'm heading.
September 2018: Left foot feels weird during track workout right before Victoria Marathon. Eventually pull out of race. See physio; diagnosis uncertain. December 2018: After all sorts of medical rigmarole and back and forth (including getting a bone scan before an xray; don't ask), get x-rayed and examined by orthopedic surgeon. Learn I have a stress fracture in 4th metatarsal. Aircast and crutches for me. Late January 2019:come out of aircast. Fracture still healing, but can continue out of cast. Need to minimize time in cast to minimize atrophy. Foot surprisingly swollen and stiff. February-April 2019: Careful rehab and healing of foot. Xrays, physio visits, the works. Late April 2019: final x-ray. Cleared to begin run-walk program by orthopedic surgeon. May 2019: begin two-month run-walk program. Starts with 4x1min of running, ends with 30 mins of continuous running. Begin more organized strength training program. Now (June 2019): Continue run-walk and strength training. July 2019-June 2020: Spend one year concentrating on training--no races, just smart training. June 2020: Scotiabank half marathon or some other suitable race Fall 2020: comeback marathon (first since 2015) 2021: Find out if 2:2X is actually in the cards for me.
Throughout the rehab process, I've been keeping sane with a mix of indoor rowing and stationary cycling, with more rowing than cycling. Rowing is kind of fun, especially now that I don't need to do it for 60+ mins a day. I plan to keep some rowing in my training regimen as I return to *actual* running.
It's great to see this thread still going strong. I'm going to read up on what everyone has been doing and post some replies now that I'm back in the saddle.
On May 10 2019 07:16 L_Master wrote: I just realized we haven't seen anything from Bonham so far this year, and nothing on strava for 3 months. I know he had been struggling on and off with injuries the past couple years, and was due for some sort of surgery/rest from a sfx in his foot....but that was 5 or 6 months ago
I live!
Sorry for the radio silence on my end; I deliberately unplugged from online running discussion (and Strava) while I was recovering. Why torture yourself with what you want but can't have, you know? The good news is that I'm finally getting back into actual running.
For L_Master and anyone else who cares, here's a quick timeline of my injury, my rehab, and where I'm heading.
September 2018: Left foot feels weird during track workout right before Victoria Marathon. Eventually pull out of race. See physio; diagnosis uncertain. December 2018: After all sorts of medical rigmarole and back and forth (including getting a bone scan before an xray; don't ask), get x-rayed and examined by orthopedic surgeon. Learn I have a stress fracture in 4th metatarsal. Aircast and crutches for me. Late January 2019:come out of aircast. Fracture still healing, but can continue out of cast. Need to minimize time in cast to minimize atrophy. Foot surprisingly swollen and stiff. February-April 2019: Careful rehab and healing of foot. Xrays, physio visits, the works. Late April 2019: final x-ray. Cleared to begin run-walk program by orthopedic surgeon. May 2019: begin two-month run-walk program. Starts with 4x1min of running, ends with 30 mins of continuous running. Begin more organized strength training program. Now (June 2019): Continue run-walk and strength training. July 2019-June 2020: Spend one year concentrating on training--no races, just smart training. June 2020: Scotiabank half marathon or some other suitable race Fall 2020: comeback marathon (first since 2015) 2021: Find out if 2:2X is actually in the cards for me.
Throughout the rehab process, I've been keeping sane with a mix of indoor rowing and stationary cycling, with more rowing than cycling. Rowing is kind of fun, especially now that I don't need to do it for 60+ mins a day. I plan to keep some rowing in my training regimen as I return to *actual* running.
It's great to see this thread still going strong. I'm going to read up on what everyone has been doing and post some replies now that I'm back in the saddle.
Glad you are back and ready to run. Good job staying strong and disciplined through the rehab process.
On June 13 2019 22:23 KelsierSC wrote: Glad you are back and ready to run. Good job staying strong and disciplined through the rehab process.
Thanks! I can't say it was my favorite process on the whole, but I hope it made me a wiser runner as a result.
I've come to enjoy rowing quite a bit as a result of my rehab. I didn't go crazy trying to get good at it or anything, but I did try a few workouts and time trial efforts. My best 5k row time was 19:20. I felt completely gassed when I finished. Rowing hard is tough.
The running rehab program I'm using starts with 1x4 min of running and then builds up to 30 mins of continuous running. Yesterday I was due for 1x20 mins of running. I ran it at kind of a light tempo effort--not really workout intensity, but trying to enjoy the relatively few chances I get to run these days.
To my surprise, I went through 5k in 18:50.
So it would appear that, despite my months in the gym, I'm still a better runner than a rower. Anyway, some thread catchup:
L_Master, I'm sorry to hear you've been having health problems. Do they still persist? Are you through the dreaded First Semester? I see you've been getting some work in on Strava....
NonY, man, it's awesome to read about your races. You're breathing some pretty rarified air. 31:09 is super legit. Very excited to see how fast you can go. (Esp. if you clear up that asthma possibility, just like Galen Rupp )
LuckyFool, great job getting under the 20 min barrier! PBing in adverse conditions is worth double celebrations, I'd say.
tagliatelle, sweet races man. Glad to see someone in the Lower Mainland is out there keeping race directors employed, 'cuz I sure ain't. In all seriousness, sweet moves in the 10k. Maybe I'll see you on the 2020 startline!
GoPlayTetriz: great to see new blood in the thread! Your meme game also seems extremely strong; please keep it up.
KelsierSC: welcome to the world of running! I can relate to the gym atmosphere/boredom you describe; bro gym culture is the worst IMO. Very excited to watch your progress; you have a ton of PBs ahead!
On June 13 2019 22:23 KelsierSC wrote: Glad you are back and ready to run. Good job staying strong and disciplined through the rehab process.
Thanks! I can't say it was my favorite process on the whole, but I hope it made me a wiser runner as a result.
I've come to enjoy rowing quite a bit as a result of my rehab. I didn't go crazy trying to get good at it or anything, but I did try a few workouts and time trial efforts. My best 5k row time was 19:20. I felt completely gassed when I finished. Rowing hard is tough.
The running rehab program I'm using starts with 1x4 min of running and then builds up to 30 mins of continuous running. Yesterday I was due for 1x20 mins of running. I ran it at kind of a light tempo effort--not really workout intensity, but trying to enjoy the relatively few chances I get to run these days.
To my surprise, I went through 5k in 18:50.
So it would appear that, despite my months in the gym, I'm still a better runner than a rower. Anyway, some thread catchup:
L_Master, I'm sorry to hear you've been having health problems. Do they still persist? Are you through the dreaded First Semester? I see you've been getting some work in on Strava....
NonY, man, it's awesome to read about your races. You're breathing some pretty rarified air. 31:09 is super legit. Very excited to see how fast you can go. (Esp. if you clear up that asthma possibility, just like Galen Rupp )
LuckyFool, great job getting under the 20 min barrier! PBing in adverse conditions is worth double celebrations, I'd say.
tagliatelle, sweet races man. Glad to see someone in the Lower Mainland is out there keeping race directors employed, 'cuz I sure ain't. In all seriousness, sweet moves in the 10k. Maybe I'll see you on the 2020 startline!
GoPlayTetriz: great to see new blood in the thread! Your meme game also seems extremely strong; please keep it up.
KelsierSC: welcome to the world of running! I can relate to the gym atmosphere/boredom you describe; bro gym culture is the worst IMO. Very excited to watch your progress; you have a ton of PBs ahead!
That's a great time to come in after a stint off and just doing some light tempo, sounds like the rowing kept you in relatively good shape, you going to use that as a cross training session then?
Had one week of vacation which included drinking every night, came back got a bit of a sore throat, so kept it easy for some additional 4 days. So i wasnt on the bike for 10-11 days. Went for my usual ride yesterday and completely smashed it. PB on a 1km sprint, PB overall. Felt great afterwards.
For tomorrow I will create a new route just to enjoy the good weater a bit. Pretty excited.
On June 13 2019 22:23 KelsierSC wrote: Glad you are back and ready to run. Good job staying strong and disciplined through the rehab process.
Thanks! I can't say it was my favorite process on the whole, but I hope it made me a wiser runner as a result.
I've come to enjoy rowing quite a bit as a result of my rehab. I didn't go crazy trying to get good at it or anything, but I did try a few workouts and time trial efforts. My best 5k row time was 19:20. I felt completely gassed when I finished. Rowing hard is tough.
The running rehab program I'm using starts with 1x4 min of running and then builds up to 30 mins of continuous running. Yesterday I was due for 1x20 mins of running. I ran it at kind of a light tempo effort--not really workout intensity, but trying to enjoy the relatively few chances I get to run these days.
To my surprise, I went through 5k in 18:50.
So it would appear that, despite my months in the gym, I'm still a better runner than a rower. Anyway, some thread catchup:
L_Master, I'm sorry to hear you've been having health problems. Do they still persist? Are you through the dreaded First Semester? I see you've been getting some work in on Strava....
NonY, man, it's awesome to read about your races. You're breathing some pretty rarified air. 31:09 is super legit. Very excited to see how fast you can go. (Esp. if you clear up that asthma possibility, just like Galen Rupp )
LuckyFool, great job getting under the 20 min barrier! PBing in adverse conditions is worth double celebrations, I'd say.
tagliatelle, sweet races man. Glad to see someone in the Lower Mainland is out there keeping race directors employed, 'cuz I sure ain't. In all seriousness, sweet moves in the 10k. Maybe I'll see you on the 2020 startline!
GoPlayTetriz: great to see new blood in the thread! Your meme game also seems extremely strong; please keep it up.
KelsierSC: welcome to the world of running! I can relate to the gym atmosphere/boredom you describe; bro gym culture is the worst IMO. Very excited to watch your progress; you have a ton of PBs ahead!
I'm doing quite a bit better. I've made some serious strides on the anxiety and other issues. Sleep is still a little sub-optimal. But I really need to get my eating under control. I'll do good for a while and lose it. Hanging out around 80kg, which is ridiculously heavy...and kind kills my motivation. Having to kill myself to run 21 5k or some similar equivalent for cycling is kinda meh.
Have also had a really variable schedule and some changes, so I haven't found that nice groove and consistency. I'm staying away from being "out of shape" but also staying away from in shape.
Glad to hear you're still in the game, and going to give it another go. Can't tell you how much I hope between surgeries and physio they've figured out the bad issues that have plagued you and that you can get in a solid cycle for the next few years.
I think rowing a 20' 5k is more stout than the same equivalent in cycling, especially for those of us that would be "lightweights' in the rowing world. Rowing stuff really hurts though, that's for sure. How many hours per week did you spend doing endurance training? That probably has a significant bit to do with the shape you have kept.
On June 22 2019 01:44 MarcoJ wrote: Had one week of vacation which included drinking every night, came back got a bit of a sore throat, so kept it easy for some additional 4 days. So i wasnt on the bike for 10-11 days. Went for my usual ride yesterday and completely smashed it. PB on a 1km sprint, PB overall. Felt great afterwards.
For tomorrow I will create a new route just to enjoy the good weater a bit. Pretty excited.
I'm doing quite a bit better. I've made some serious strides on the anxiety and other issues. Sleep is still a little sub-optimal. But I really need to get my eating under control. I'll do good for a while and lose it. Hanging out around 80kg, which is ridiculously heavy...and kind kills my motivation. Having to kill myself to run 21 5k or some similar equivalent for cycling is kinda meh.
Have also had a really variable schedule and some changes, so I haven't found that nice groove and consistency. I'm staying away from being "out of shape" but also staying away from in shape.
That's awesome news! Has the allergies/sinus situation also calmed down?
Regarding the weight thing: have you considered going vegetarian? I lost about 10 pounds when I stopped eating meat a decade ago. Not a panacea on its own, of course, but something to consider.
On June 24 2019 14:49 L_Master wrote:
Glad to hear you're still in the game, and going to give it another go. Can't tell you how much I hope between surgeries and physio they've figured out the bad issues that have plagued you and that you can get in a solid cycle for the next few years.
I think rowing a 20' 5k is more stout than the same equivalent in cycling, especially for those of us that would be "lightweights' in the rowing world. Rowing stuff really hurts though, that's for sure. How many hours per week did you spend doing endurance training? That probably has a significant bit to do with the shape you have kept.
Haha, thanks very much. We'll see what the future holds....
I'm not at all sure what the rowing equivalent of a 20' 5K run would be. Actually, on that subject: what's the equivalent for cycling? Would be very curious to hear your thoughts on that.
I did a little reading about rowing technique and tips when I was getting into it around December, and from that I gather that most serious rowing races happens at shorter distances.
During rehab, I spent between 60 and 90 minutes doing endurance work, six days a week. At the start it was all rowing, then it moved to a mix of rowing and cycling. Now it's mostly rowing and running, with cycling on Sundays until I can start running six times a week. (Somehow I have become someone who goes to spin class; blame my partner for that I guess.)
Anyway, I'd do some interval-style stuff on the rower sometimes to break up the monotony, and the odd "tempo" effort, but it was really mostly medium-effort, steady state stuff while I listened to podcasts.
I will say that my few dalliances with hard rowing hammered home why it would be useful to be a big strong buff boy if you really wanted to get good at it. Your whole body really needs to produce power to pull the chain as fast and hard as you can. I think, if I wanted to become a good rower, a lot of the hard work would have to happen in the weight room.
But that would slow down my running, so it's off the table.
I'm doing quite a bit better. I've made some serious strides on the anxiety and other issues. Sleep is still a little sub-optimal. But I really need to get my eating under control. I'll do good for a while and lose it. Hanging out around 80kg, which is ridiculously heavy...and kind kills my motivation. Having to kill myself to run 21 5k or some similar equivalent for cycling is kinda meh.
Have also had a really variable schedule and some changes, so I haven't found that nice groove and consistency. I'm staying away from being "out of shape" but also staying away from in shape.
That's awesome news! Has the allergies/sinus situation also calmed down?
Regarding the weight thing: have you considered going vegetarian? I lost about 10 pounds when I stopped eating meat a decade ago. Not a panacea on its own, of course, but something to consider.
Yea, sinus stuff cleared up about 2 or 3 months ago. It was quite annoying though.
Vegetarian? Not really. Tbh, I just like meat too much to, and I think it's hard to argue against the nutritional value of it (provided you're staying away from grain fed meats with poor FA ratios). I do tend to be much heavier on the salmon/tuna side of things, with beef, chicken, turkey, etc. thrown in as occasional treats. I'm very heavy on vegetables, 7-10 cups is normal for me per day, some fruit when it's in season, and occasional nuts. Generally try to stay away from refined oils and most grains. Biggest killer for me by far is binging on processed foods. If I could take away my 3-5 days/week where I eat 2000kcal of soda/cookies/ice cream/etc. I'd be lean and probably in the top 1% of healthy eating. I just struggle with the cravings and binging.
Glad to hear you're still in the game, and going to give it another go. Can't tell you how much I hope between surgeries and physio they've figured out the bad issues that have plagued you and that you can get in a solid cycle for the next few years.
I think rowing a 20' 5k is more stout than the same equivalent in cycling, especially for those of us that would be "lightweights' in the rowing world. Rowing stuff really hurts though, that's for sure. How many hours per week did you spend doing endurance training? That probably has a significant bit to do with the shape you have kept.
Haha, thanks very much. We'll see what the future holds....
I'm not at all sure what the rowing equivalent of a 20' 5K run would be. Actually, on that subject: what's the equivalent for cycling? Would be very curious to hear your thoughts on that.
I did a little reading about rowing technique and tips when I was getting into it around December, and from that I gather that most serious rowing races happens at shorter distances.
During rehab, I spent between 60 and 90 minutes doing endurance work, six days a week. At the start it was all rowing, then it moved to a mix of rowing and cycling. Now it's mostly rowing and running, with cycling on Sundays until I can start running six times a week. (Somehow I have become someone who goes to spin class; blame my partner for that I guess.)
Anyway, I'd do some interval-style stuff on the rower sometimes to break up the monotony, and the odd "tempo" effort, but it was really mostly medium-effort, steady state stuff while I listened to podcasts.
I will say that my few dalliances with hard rowing hammered home why it would be useful to be a big strong buff boy if you really wanted to get good at it. Your whole body really needs to produce power to pull the chain as fast and hard as you can. I think, if I wanted to become a good rower, a lot of the hard work would have to happen in the weight room.
But that would slow down my running, so it's off the table.
Rowing equivalent. Hmm. Looking at Conept2 rankings, which are actually taken quite seriously, it would seem that for lightweights (sub 75kg) somewhere around 18 high is top 10%, and 19 mid is top 25%, so I'd guess that the rowing equivalent would be around 19 flat ish. 20' 10k for active men seems to be around a similar place.
Cycling equivalent is tough to say, because it depends on the type of rider. Roughly speaking, you could say doing a 40km TT in an hour (one a TT bike) would be an equivalent, I think that's a top 10% achievement. From a power/weight standpoint, you'd be looking at 4/wkg for threshold. Climbing and speeds though are dependent on a variety of factors, and highly susceptible to wind. Best way to tell would be to find a sheltered local climb in your area of 20'+ and see what time is the top 10%.
And yea, being big benefits rowing because weight is a non penalty. More muscle mass generally translated into more raw power, and will make you faster. This is especially true for guys that are bigger (generally read: taller) because they naturally have more muscle, heart size/pumping/lung capacity. So more power and they go faster. Same reason bigger guys tend to be great in cycling on the flat races. They can compact themselves almost as small as a little guy, but have way more absolute power.
Funny you guys started to talk about rowing, because that's exactly what I started doing today!
I was about to ramp up my mileage again because I felt good again, when suddenly the stinging pain from early April popped back up on a very easy run after only 1k. I was super frustrated and decided to end my running streak at 184 days and go see a doctor. That was about 3 weeks ago, doc thinks it's not a stress fracture (yet) just an overuse injury, but thinks my flat feet are to blame for some of it and sent me to a podiatrist. Saw him yesterday. That guy... "forefoot striking is all wrong, you need to land on your heel first, if you run like that I can't help you, no serious runner does it like this..." Maybe I could've taken him more seriously if he didn't weigh about 130kg himself while being the same height as me. At least he didn't try to sell me anything.
Decided to ignore that advice and follow through with the plan I already had before that. Take some time off (did that for 3 weeks, all niggles gone), then slowly start running again 2-3 times a week and supplement with lots of rowing and time on the eliptical. Also focus more on mobility and making sure my calves aren't tight.
So I joined a gym yesterday and I already love rowing! My arms are weak as he'll but it's fun. I'll do a 5k time trial soon to see where I start out.
Haha, what a coincidence! Now that I've become acquainted with it, I see rowing as a real part of my long-term workout diet. It's low impact but still rigorous, and it works the whole body. Excited to see how the 5k goes! I should mention, on the off chance you've chosen 5k because of the discussion in this thread, that it was a totally arbitrary distance I chose because of its overlap with running. I can't vouch for its importance in the world of rowing!
One other thing I'll mention, with the proviso that I'm a long way from a rowing expert: I believe many rowing beginners make the mistake of concentrating too much on their arms. See, for example, this list of rowing tips.
I'm not a medical professional, but that podiatrists' attitude sounds pretty dubious to me. One thing I've found helpful dealing with medical consultants over the years is asking them how much experience they have treating runners and how much they keep up with new research. Sounds like this dude's knowledge is a few decades past its best-before date.
This thread fall off the front page of the Sports subforum? Not on my watch!
Anyone else watching the Tour this year? As a fair-weather cycling fan, I'm quite enjoying following it. With no Froome, things feel much less certain and therefore much more exciting.
On July 17 2019 06:55 Bonham wrote: This thread fall off the front page of the Sports subforum? Not on my watch!
Anyone else watching the Tour this year? As a fair-weather cycling fan, I'm quite enjoying following it. With no Froome, things feel much less certain and therefore much more exciting.
I still think it's pretty damn likely an Ineos rider is going to win. Need to see one more hard mountains day to see if having so many Ineos guys dropped like we did on stage 6 or whatever it was was a fluke or not. If Ineos as a team is that off, then it's more open, but if Poels and Co. are all solid....really hard to think both G and Bernal will falter with that kind of support (ofc barring some sort of crash or mechanical disaster).
Unfortunate for Pinot, he had looked really good so far.
Overall though, it's been a good race so far with all kinds of amazing stages. Alaphillipe gaining yellow. Alaphillips just losing to Chicone on that crazy ramp at the end. Alaphillipe regainging it and the amazing victory by a tired, breakaway DeGendt to hold off Alaphillipe and Pinot working together, and then the crosswinds day. All in all quite a good race.
TT tomorrow will be interesting and see where they are at. G should consolidate his lead over everyone not named Alaphillipe, but Bernal TTs pretty well and shouldn't lose all that much time.
Starting to get some mojo back. Pretty much solved my anxiety type issues, and am even starting to get the sleep better. Diet is generally much healthier, but still that's by far the biggest struggle.
I've been thinking for a while, and I think that's really going to become my main goal. I'm not good enough as a runner, and while I have the physical ability on the bike...I just dont have the nerves. Maybe one day I'll get past it, but I cant get results anywhere near my fitness with my confidence level. Wont stop racing, but it's just not a main goal.
So...what is my main goal? Well. In 2016 I went 23:07 on the Manitou Incline at around 68kg. I've been 63kg, with potential for a touch lower. Weight should be able to save about 2'. That brings me to 21...so I figure if I can find 1' more in fitness I could go sub 20...which would be something special. Top 3 all time strava and a general super significant barrier. It's a big ask, but it would be an awesome magnum opus if I could pull it out.
For the current moment, did the incline a couple months ago in 31:30...and that was a wakeup call. Almost 10' from my best. Pitiful...but the jumpstart I needed. Put in a mediocre block, then a fantastic block, and went 27:52 a few days ago.
In the short term I've got a big endurance/climbing MTB race in 3 weeks, no ambitious goals, but bettering time from last year would be nice. Then, if my body let's me I'll do some running in the fall, and then a big endurance block over winter with the goal of seeing where I'm actually at, and how reasonable 20' is, in late spring.
Hey L_Master, glad to hear that you got your health issues pretty much solved, health comes before anything sports related specially for us amateurs.
I didn't know about the incline but that thing looks brutal in the most awesome way. I'd definitely love to do it some day. Your goal sounds like a very though one but those are the most interesting and challenging, wish you luck. When you say you lack confidence in cycling what do you mean? Riding in the peloton, cornering, fast descents? Those things can also be greatly improved with the right approach, but most of all you need a 'I can definitely do it' mindset, maybe you could focus a bit on that too.
As for myself, I've started cycling at the end of February after 1.5 years away because of a knee injury and I'm really happy about where I'm at. I've managed to do some prs on short climbs and even a couple KOMs while being careful not to overextend and train too much. In one of the 2 climbs I use for all-out tests I did 3:37, just 1 second away from my pr, and in the next day did 15:30 on the other climb where my pr is 14:49, while 3 months ago I did 16:45. Now I've got two races coming up, the first is a 2 hour race in the Estoril circuit and the second the Santarém Granfondo which is 122km with 2200m of gain. In both I'd love to finish in the top 50 (competition is very though around here) but I'm also perfectly ok if I don't because my main goal is to be injure free so that next year I can do more races and set the best prs I can possibly do.
Came back yesterday from a 1 week hiking vacation, lots of activity and drinking with friends. Quite exhausting but awesome fun! 4 hiking trips, 82km, about 5,000m vertical gain, 1 day rafting and one spa day. My personal highlight was on friday when we went to the "Three peaks of Lavaredo" (super famous group of mountains, like unesco world heritage famous) to hike around them. After encountering 2 groups of trailrunners me and a friend went "hold my beer"-mode (literally our backpacks including beer) and decided to do an extra loop running while the rest of our group kept on hiking at a moderate pace. Jumping rocks, dodging tourists, sliding on gravel...some of the most fun I've ever had running! https://www.strava.com/activities/2604582143
Only after I caught up with my group did I realize, that I was doing all that on a hot & sunny day at an altitude of 2,200-2,450m. Man was I breathing hard! Combine that with other brilliant ideas like "lets race up that hill to the edge of the forest" covering about 130m vertically with merely 240m horizontally... https://www.strava.com/activities/2601836432
Well, I never realized you could have sore breathing muscles! My chest was super tight, laughing and coughing hurt actually hurt a little. I was a little freaked because I suffered a collapsed lung both last year and the year before, right around this time of year. Thankfully most of it already subsided and today's only my 2nd rest day, knockin on wood that my lung didn't take any damage! Legs also feel fine btw, only my left foot started complaining in the 5th metatarsal/cuboid area, but it's quickly going away and I'm confident that I can soon start increasing my running volume again!
As for rowing: My first 5k was in 21:12, after which my total rowing distance wasn't even 10k. So this is really where I start at. I didn't find enough time to go rowing more than twice a week, but I decided to keep going to the gym until the end of september. For now my forearms feel like the limiting factor, can barely hold on to the handle while averaging a hr of only 145.
Well did my longest ride ever, a solid 6 hrs on the MTB with 2 hours or so of efforts worth at 5-7 beats below threshold. Went well and was feeling ready to start taper for race this coming Saturday...
But....
No race. On Saturday anyway. Washouts and other issues resulted in a postponement and some possible course changes with a new planned date of October 27.
Not sure how to feel. On the one hand my fitness was going well and I was definitely setting up to peak. On the other hand, its theoretically way more time to lose weight and be vastly more competitive.
well, after my visit in cologne and drinking I wanted to challenge my self and finally do a 100km ride. So I go, its raining slightly, whatever. After 25km I realize that I have a flat. Luckily the next bus at the nearest station was coming in 40min. Took me about 90min to get home by public transport.
Last time my phone battery died to fast, this time a flat. Eventually I will make it...
I'm a bit annoyed since my right shin feels tender after very little easy running (like 15k a week). I don't notice it while walking/running but it's overly sensitive if I start prodding it a little. Gonna see what happens if I increase the load a bit and signed up for a 5k in mid october. Yesterday I spontaneously decided to do another 5k race today as a sort of fitness test to see where I actually am running wise after this very inconsistent summer.
Just ran a 18:57! While not the fastest 5k I ever logged, it was definitely my best race effort in a short race. Very even splits, avg HR of 179 and reached my max of 186, highest I reached in the last 2 years.
I guess the rowing, stairmaster and that one high intensity aerobics class at my gym helped quite a bit.
Speaking of rowing, 5k is down to 19:40 and I did a 2k this week in 7:31. Lovely noob gains 3 weeks ago I got really bad pain in the biceps femoris tendon where it inserts into the knee, because overdoing things is what I'm really good at. It's interesting how it changed in such a short time. In the beginning I barely could hold on to the handle while the rest of my body felt fine, but by now I can actually push and really get my HR up to feel wholly miserable
On September 09 2019 00:45 Nocci wrote: Allrighty, time for another bump!
I'm a bit annoyed since my right shin feels tender after very little easy running (like 15k a week). I don't notice it while walking/running but it's overly sensitive if I start prodding it a little. Gonna see what happens if I increase the load a bit and signed up for a 5k in mid october. Yesterday I spontaneously decided to do another 5k race today as a sort of fitness test to see where I actually am running wise after this very inconsistent summer.
Just ran a 18:57! While not the fastest 5k I ever logged, it was definitely my best race effort in a short race. Very even splits, avg HR of 179 and reached my max of 186, highest I reached in the last 2 years.
I guess the rowing, stairmaster and that one high intensity aerobics class at my gym helped quite a bit.
Speaking of rowing, 5k is down to 19:40 and I did a 2k this week in 7:31. Lovely noob gains 3 weeks ago I got really bad pain in the biceps femoris tendon where it inserts into the knee, because overdoing things is what I'm really good at. It's interesting how it changed in such a short time. In the beginning I barely could hold on to the handle while the rest of my body felt fine, but by now I can actually push and really get my HR up to feel wholly miserable
Nice rowing improvement! If I get back in shape I'll have to test myself...or maybe I should do it now since weight doesn't mean shit on the ergo.
Nice race too, not a bad place to start a build from. Time to go hunt that sub 18!! And remember, if you want some coaching I'm happy to do that (at no charge obviously).
On September 09 2019 13:37 L_Master wrote: And remember, if you want some coaching I'm happy to do that (at no charge obviously).
Thanks for the offer, so far I've been improving steadily with what I've been doing, orienting myself & structuring workouts mostly after Jack Daniels' Running Formula. As long as I stayed healthy anyways. That's the one thing I struggle with, staying injury free. These days I've been noticing my right shin again after hard running, but that might be just some post injury oversensitivity. Gotta pay close attention to that and be honest with myself.
Here's my 2019 so far:
Hardly any running since may, so I'm all the more pleased to still be able to run sub 19min 5k Plan for the next 4 weeks is to go by feel, probably low total volume but mostly quality workouts on the track (like twice a week), because I also want to spend some more time in the gym while my subscription still lasts. Then after the race in october I'll see where I stand health wise and hopefully start a long base building phase, no more racing planned this year.
In other news I went tryhard mode today and got my 5k rowing down to 19:15
Ugh. The forever struggle with eating.
Hehe I hear you, I came home from my vacation with 3 additional kg and kept them through all of august. Now I'm back down to 71kg and I aim to be somewhere sub 70kg for the race in october. At least my diet's been pretty clean the last 2 weeks. Party with alcohol tomorrow, hopefully I'll bounce back to healthy habits right on sunday.
Last Saturday I did the first Race in a very long time, a 2hour circuit race on the Estoril Race track at night.
I only got to the track 10 min before the start because of insane traffic and only got to the start line with 3min to go, so no warm up for me. The first lap was pretty intense, started way behind the front and had trouble clipping the pedals so I had to sprint pretty hard to get to the front and stay there was tough because I had no clue about the track, it was very dark and those corners..... Doing tight but very high speed corners in the middle of the pack was pretty terrifying, there were 180+ degrees corners made at close to 40kph that made me scared every time I passed there. Fortunetly I could stay in the front of the group for most of the race and have clean lines.
So the first lap was the fastest as expected and then the pace slowed a bit, with the occasional attack and sudden increase in speed which slowly started to kill the legs, and with some 4 sprints out of corners every lap it was tough but manageable. In the last 3 laps I decided I had to stay on the top 10 till the end and did so, and even attacked to bridge to a breakaway in the penultimate lap, which was probably a mistake but I enjoyed being in that small break. We were caught but I sprinted to stay in the head of the group and finally started the sprint on 4th position but I paid for my previous efforts and cramped quite bad but still managed to finish 7th from the front group of 30.
Overall it was really fun although quite dangerous, and while the pace wasn't extremely high (around 39kph average), I felt it was a good race and result.
Now next month I'll have the other race which will be very different with much more climbing but I just want to finish and feel good.
Woah that's intense. Great results and speed wow! As someone who only rides solo taking those kind of corners with dozens of other bikes around would freak me out too much. I suppose one would get used to riding in a pack over time and adjust to it but I might be too scared to even try in a race setting like this (especially crits which seem to be designed to cause a crash...).
On September 17 2019 08:18 tagliatelle wrote: Woah that's intense. Great results and speed wow! As someone who only rides solo taking those kind of corners with dozens of other bikes around would freak me out too much. I suppose one would get used to riding in a pack over time and adjust to it but I might be too scared to even try in a race setting like this (especially crits which seem to be designed to cause a crash...).
Yea you get used to it for the most part, perhaps completely if your confidence is good. Crits....aren't THAT bad. They seem intense, and they do place a huge emphasis on bike handling, but it's not that bad. In general, crashing is just a part of racing. If you race enough, you will crash.
And yea, the speed is high, but that's part of the group effect. You go pretty damn fast in a strong bunch.
It's very fun though, I won't lie.
Beyond that, I wouldn't jump into racing right away. Start with some chill group rides and get used to that, then go to some of the "racier" ones in your area. Once you're comfortable there....then hop into some races.
Did my second 100k ride on sunday. Temperature was quite nice with about 23°C. But I was not fueling enough again. Drinking was not a super bad issue but after like 3/4 I was so dead. Had 2 bars and a banana but had to stop at a petrol station and got a snickers. That saved my ass big time. I stacked my usual 40k exercise route way more today (2bars instead of one) and i drank a bit more and I had so much energy. Did some PR on some segments and was quite fast in general. I hope the weather stays like that a bit more so I can have a second shot at the 100k.
On September 09 2019 13:37 L_Master wrote: And remember, if you want some coaching I'm happy to do that (at no charge obviously).
Thanks for the offer, so far I've been improving steadily with what I've been doing, orienting myself & structuring workouts mostly after Jack Daniels' Running Formula. As long as I stayed healthy anyways. That's the one thing I struggle with, staying injury free. These days I've been noticing my right shin again after hard running, but that might be just some post injury oversensitivity. Gotta pay close attention to that and be honest with myself.
Here's my 2019 so far:
Hardly any running since may, so I'm all the more pleased to still be able to run sub 19min 5k Plan for the next 4 weeks is to go by feel, probably low total volume but mostly quality workouts on the track (like twice a week), because I also want to spend some more time in the gym while my subscription still lasts. Then after the race in october I'll see where I stand health wise and hopefully start a long base building phase, no more racing planned this year.
In other news I went tryhard mode today and got my 5k rowing down to 19:15
Hehe I hear you, I came home from my vacation with 3 additional kg and kept them through all of august. Now I'm back down to 71kg and I aim to be somewhere sub 70kg for the race in october. At least my diet's been pretty clean the last 2 weeks. Party with alcohol tomorrow, hopefully I'll bounce back to healthy habits right on sunday.
I just looked at that 5k. Looks like a really well executed race.
Also...there were a TON of turns. Enough to cost 10-20s from a straighter course. Good starting point. Stay healthy and consistent and should be challenging 18 in October and 17;30 or better in Spring
I had my 10km race early August and on balance I was happy with it.
Went out a bit too hard and it made 4-7 really un-fun but I held my pace and managed to overtake a guy at the end, took 4th place with 37:09 which was a massive PB for me. After running 39 in June I was thrilled to take 2 minutes off.
Unfortunately since that point I've had a pretty bad time. Not enough recovery time after the race and jumped into trying to train for a 5km relay duathalon. I've learned that it's really hard to stay in peak shape for an extended period and it really started to wear me down.
I had a week long vacation and I decided I would benefit just taking the whole week off and coming back refreshed. I had a couple of runs when I got back and felt great, Unfortunately I must have picked up a bug at some point and was ill all last week which stopped me from running again.
Poor race recovery then 2 weeks of not really doing anything means I am not in any shape for the race (13th October), feel like I must have lost most of my fitness gains. I spoke to my relay partner and we agreed to just go and enjoy it rather than shooting for any PB's. If I can do both legs in under 20 minutes that will be great.
After the race I haven't got anything booked so I might train for a 5k PB end of November time then have that as the end of season before I use the winter to do some base building/gym work.
On October 01 2019 17:48 KelsierSC wrote: Quick update on my progress
I had my 10km race early August and on balance I was happy with it.
Went out a bit too hard and it made 4-7 really un-fun but I held my pace and managed to overtake a guy at the end, took 4th place with 37:09 which was a massive PB for me. After running 39 in June I was thrilled to take 2 minutes off.
Unfortunately since that point I've had a pretty bad time. Not enough recovery time after the race and jumped into trying to train for a 5km relay duathalon. I've learned that it's really hard to stay in peak shape for an extended period and it really started to wear me down.
I had a week long vacation and I decided I would benefit just taking the whole week off and coming back refreshed. I had a couple of runs when I got back and felt great, Unfortunately I must have picked up a bug at some point and was ill all last week which stopped me from running again.
Poor race recovery then 2 weeks of not really doing anything means I am not in any shape for the race (13th October), feel like I must have lost most of my fitness gains. I spoke to my relay partner and we agreed to just go and enjoy it rather than shooting for any PB's. If I can do both legs in under 20 minutes that will be great.
After the race I haven't got anything booked so I might train for a 5k PB end of November time then have that as the end of season before I use the winter to do some base building/gym work.
Wow. Sick improvement! Bummer about the rest of the season, but it seems like you're learning from it. Not sure it's worth it to do anything between Oct and Nov, that's like 4 or 5 weeks, but if you're really motivated to blast some workouts it won't hurt you.
If you want to have a really great next season, I'd mentally refresh, basically just run easy for personal enjoyment and build the volume. Try to build to 20-30% more than peak volume from this past season. Run hard only unstructured, and if you're really feeling it. Some sprint work and strides are always good to throw in, and gym can be as well. This phase could easily last Nov-Feb, then going into some specific work for a target race in Apr/May time frame.
On October 01 2019 17:48 KelsierSC wrote: Quick update on my progress
I had my 10km race early August and on balance I was happy with it.
Went out a bit too hard and it made 4-7 really un-fun but I held my pace and managed to overtake a guy at the end, took 4th place with 37:09 which was a massive PB for me. After running 39 in June I was thrilled to take 2 minutes off.
Unfortunately since that point I've had a pretty bad time. Not enough recovery time after the race and jumped into trying to train for a 5km relay duathalon. I've learned that it's really hard to stay in peak shape for an extended period and it really started to wear me down.
I had a week long vacation and I decided I would benefit just taking the whole week off and coming back refreshed. I had a couple of runs when I got back and felt great, Unfortunately I must have picked up a bug at some point and was ill all last week which stopped me from running again.
Poor race recovery then 2 weeks of not really doing anything means I am not in any shape for the race (13th October), feel like I must have lost most of my fitness gains. I spoke to my relay partner and we agreed to just go and enjoy it rather than shooting for any PB's. If I can do both legs in under 20 minutes that will be great.
After the race I haven't got anything booked so I might train for a 5k PB end of November time then have that as the end of season before I use the winter to do some base building/gym work.
Wow. Sick improvement! Bummer about the rest of the season, but it seems like you're learning from it. Not sure it's worth it to do anything between Oct and Nov, that's like 4 or 5 weeks, but if you're really motivated to blast some workouts it won't hurt you.
If you want to have a really great next season, I'd mentally refresh, basically just run easy for personal enjoyment and build the volume. Try to build to 20-30% more than peak volume from this past season. Run hard only unstructured, and if you're really feeling it. Some sprint work and strides are always good to throw in, and gym can be as well. This phase could easily last Nov-Feb, then going into some specific work for a target race in Apr/May time frame.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to do what you suggest with regards to building my base from November through to Feb.
There is a 10k series that usually starts middle of May and runs till middle of July. Think there are 8 races but only 5 count so no need to run all of them. It's pretty competitive so i'm excited to see what I could do.
If you have any advice i'll take you up on your free coaching offer.
On October 01 2019 06:58 L_Master wrote: Race coming up Saturday. We shall see how it goes.
If my legs feel okay will do a track session on Tuesday, and then go from there. Right now A/B/C goals are 21:00 / 20:30 / 19:xx.
Workout was decent....except the nice track I thought was public turned out to be PRIVATE ACCESS >.<
So...I settled for a workout on the Oval at CSU. Cool place, and sorta like a track. About 600-700m a loop, but probably 5-10m of elevation gain per loop, so not a pancake. Workout, from an execution standpoint, was great. I was perhaps a touch ambitious, moving up in pace a bit too much in laps 2 or 3, such that the last 2 reps were quite hard. Wanted it to feel controlled and with plenty in the tank. Ended up still controlled, but the tank was running low. One more rep would have been a big ask.
Ended up being 5x4:00 reps with a 1' jog recovery around 10:30 pace. First rep started slow in around 6:35 pace, getting down to around 6:17 pace by the last one. Average right around 6:25 pace. The good news is that I did average A goal pace for 5x1k on slightly tougher terrain than my race. The bad news is I was working hard for it. Still 50/50 on whether or not I'll hit it. In a race I usually can run what I can average for reps in that workout, but usually I like my workouts a touch easier.
Basically, I think if I'm on a great day I'll squeak under, but it's hit or miss. Goals remain as they are.
In case it's helpful, I've attached a picture of what a well executed interval sessions above threshold should look like:
I'm a big believer in at least maintaining pace, or having a subtle increase in pace. Starting hard and slowing down creates far more strain and teaches the wrong aspect mentally (slowing down as it gets hard). You can also see the steady climb in HR over the course of the repeats. First one ended at 160bpm, the final one ended at 173bpm, which is about 91-93% of HRmax for me. As mentioned, that's inline with a session being particularly hard. Anything above 90% or so starts to really flood with crazy lactate and feel brutally challenging. You're usually better having your final interval hit high 80% or very low (90-91%) of HRmax. It creates less stress, usually allows you to keep better mechanics, and allows for much greater time above threshold and time is the only stimulus the body "understands". Outside of one or two very race specific workouts or mental training, it's not any more beneficial to go at 95% of max than it is at 88-91% of max, so you can collect significantly more minutes going a few % easier.
I have to admit, since it's big news, that after this arbitration hearing and results I'm more convinced than ever that NOP athletes were not doping. All the suspect things relate to Salazar trying to protect his athletes or ensure that they were following all of the rules, and it's telling just how consistently that Salazar was communicating with USADA to ensure his athletes were clean.
On October 01 2019 17:48 KelsierSC wrote: Quick update on my progress
I had my 10km race early August and on balance I was happy with it.
Went out a bit too hard and it made 4-7 really un-fun but I held my pace and managed to overtake a guy at the end, took 4th place with 37:09 which was a massive PB for me. After running 39 in June I was thrilled to take 2 minutes off.
Unfortunately since that point I've had a pretty bad time. Not enough recovery time after the race and jumped into trying to train for a 5km relay duathalon. I've learned that it's really hard to stay in peak shape for an extended period and it really started to wear me down.
I had a week long vacation and I decided I would benefit just taking the whole week off and coming back refreshed. I had a couple of runs when I got back and felt great, Unfortunately I must have picked up a bug at some point and was ill all last week which stopped me from running again.
Poor race recovery then 2 weeks of not really doing anything means I am not in any shape for the race (13th October), feel like I must have lost most of my fitness gains. I spoke to my relay partner and we agreed to just go and enjoy it rather than shooting for any PB's. If I can do both legs in under 20 minutes that will be great.
After the race I haven't got anything booked so I might train for a 5k PB end of November time then have that as the end of season before I use the winter to do some base building/gym work.
Wow. Sick improvement! Bummer about the rest of the season, but it seems like you're learning from it. Not sure it's worth it to do anything between Oct and Nov, that's like 4 or 5 weeks, but if you're really motivated to blast some workouts it won't hurt you.
If you want to have a really great next season, I'd mentally refresh, basically just run easy for personal enjoyment and build the volume. Try to build to 20-30% more than peak volume from this past season. Run hard only unstructured, and if you're really feeling it. Some sprint work and strides are always good to throw in, and gym can be as well. This phase could easily last Nov-Feb, then going into some specific work for a target race in Apr/May time frame.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to do what you suggest with regards to building my base from November through to Feb.
There is a 10k series that usually starts middle of May and runs till middle of July. Think there are 8 races but only 5 count so no need to run all of them. It's pretty competitive so i'm excited to see what I could do.
If you have any advice i'll take you up on your free coaching offer.
@Kelsier Awesome improvement, only breaking 20 in the 5k in april and now already running a 37min 10k, congrats on that!
@L_Master Thanks for posting that intervall session, it's a good reminder for myself to stop and think about why I'm doing a certain workout at a certain pace and not be all "hold my beer, whoooop I can go faaast!"
I got carried away on monday and for some reason I really wanted to do 5*1200m session (too much in the first place for my current mileage) at a pace too quick for my current fitness level. While I managed to nail the pace (3:35/k) and did all 5 repetitions in 4:15-4:18 it felt awful and I definitely notice the strain it put on body and mind alike. It's thursday and I still don't feel fresh, also it made me a little anxious when thinking about the next intervall session, because it was so damn hard. 4 reps in 4:25-4:30 would have been much more appropriate and I would've been fine again yesterday.
On October 04 2019 03:03 Nocci wrote: @Kelsier Awesome improvement, only breaking 20 in the 5k in april and now already running a 37min 10k, congrats on that!
@L_Master Thanks for posting that intervall session, it's a good reminder for myself to stop and think about why I'm doing a certain workout at a certain pace and not be all "hold my beer, whoooop I can go faaast!"
I got carried away on monday and for some reason I really wanted to do 5*1200m session (too much in the first place for my current mileage) at a pace too quick for my current fitness level. While I managed to nail the pace (3:35/k) and did all 5 repetitions in 4:15-4:18 it felt awful and I definitely notice the strain it put on body and mind alike. It's thursday and I still don't feel fresh, also it made me a little anxious when thinking about the next intervall session, because it was so damn hard. 4 reps in 4:25-4:30 would have been much more appropriate and I would've been fine again yesterday.
Just stupid.
Yea, it's so easy to do. That little extra from "solid session" to "going to well" can really push you over the edge, especially when going to the well means driving that lactate way up over 10mmol (usually 95% is HRmax). It feels awesome to complete those hero sessions, but in the overall flow of the week, or even over cycles, it can really add up.
I think I mentioned it before, but I'm a huge believer in not pushing your intervals by pace, but by duration. I've seen nothing anecdotally, and especially in literature, to suggest that doing intervals at 93% of maximum give any better gains than at 90% of maximum...but there is HUGE evidence both anecdotally (elite athlete total mileage and interval mileage is consistently much higher than college tier, which in turn is much higher than local/High school tier) and in studies that accumulating more minutes above threshold yields greater increases in fitness.
Put simply, if you have planned 6x800 repeats and you do the first two and it feels easy don't drop the pace 10s a mile....extend the repeat to 1k, or do 7 or 8 repeats.
It's also less of an issue for runners who seem to do better, but cyclists are notorious for setting their threshold wrong. They will use a 20' test, often on a climb, and then take 95% of that and say that's my threshold (FTP). But, 20' power is not threshold and depending on anaerobic cap, FTP can often be 93% or even 90% of 20' power/speed. Moreover, on a climb cyclists output is usually higher, so when they do intervals on flat ground, with a bloated FTP it becomes impossible quite quickly.
Runners, for whatever seem to do better; particularly with interval paces, likely because those are set usually keyed of mile/3k5k//10k paces which are well known. I will say, the overwhelming majority of runners (and cyclists) do their tempo runs too fast, their easy runs way to fast, and their recovery runs...usually almost non-existant. What I call "intensity discipline" is probably the bigger area for easy improvement in amateur athletes.
Also, I felt like absolute shit on my shakeout run/ride today, though the HR was VERY low. The kind of HRs I'd expect to see in 17:xx shape. These things can 180 easily overnight though, so hopefully I feel decent on the line tomorrow. If not, I'll chalk it up to intervals Tuesday + Run/Bike Intervals combo on Wednesday as too much. Possibly effected by plasma donation yesterday. Usually back to back workouts, especially at sub threshold intensity, are fine on the bike...but perhaps that doesn't work when the name of the game is running.
7am start though....wtf is that?!?
Why can't fall/winter races start at a decent time like 9 or 10?
Homecoming 5k today. First time I've raced in 5 years running. Felt terrible yesterday but legs came back!
Had in my mind that if everything went really well 19 high might be possible. Close, but no cigar.
Today I started out right where I wanted, 6:40 for the first uphill mile and lost at least 80 spots. You should feel like an anchor going backwards in the field if you do it right. Watch your pace over the first half mile and, if anything, make it a touch easier than goal. Much easier and positive feeling to have a furious finish to make up some time than blow up and be in agony by mile 1.
Unfortunately, by mile 1 I was feeling it more than I wanted. Here's where I messed up, it was still early and I knew I wanted 2nd mile around 6:25...so I sped up and started picking people off. I went 6:00 pace from M1 to M1.5. That did me in, as I was suffering brutally then.
I've often thrown in the towel here, but I was proud I hung tough and suffered with the pain as much as I could. Still faded a little with a 6:40 from M2 to M3...but I suffered for it and didn't give up and ease off.
Probably a little fatigued, not much sleep last night and HR just didn't quite come up...although data seems a bit suspect.
Not quite the goal, but a mentally good race and an 8/10 on execution. Good place to build from
Did another hard workout today that went much better than my last interval session. I did 3 mile repeats @3:45 min/km with 400m easy jog in between (5:58, 5:57, 5:57 for each 1600m, so pretty much dead on 6 minute miles ). Compared to that 5*1200m @3:35 it was a difference like night and day. First rep felt kinda easy, then they got hard & somewhat uncomfortable but manageable. I think this might be about my 5k race pace right now, at least I'm going to try and hit that on sunday.
After that I'm really unsure how to proceed, me leg is still giving me trouble. Today it felt surprisingly fine, other days my shin hurts just walking around. I'm definitely leaning towards being extra careful this time around, maybe even taking 6 weeks completely off if it flares up again...
On October 09 2019 01:39 Nocci wrote: Race for me on sunday.
Did another hard workout today that went much better than my last interval session. I did 3 mile repeats @3:45 min/km with 400m easy jog in between (5:58, 5:57, 5:57 for each 1600m, so pretty much dead on 6 minute miles ). Compared to that 5*1200m @3:35 it was a difference like night and day. First rep felt kinda easy, then they got hard & somewhat uncomfortable but manageable. I think this might be about my 5k race pace right now, at least I'm going to try and hit that on sunday.
After that I'm really unsure how to proceed, me leg is still giving me trouble. Today it felt surprisingly fine, other days my shin hurts just walking around. I'm definitely leaning towards being extra careful this time around, maybe even taking 6 weeks completely off if it flares up again...
Good workouts!
Injury wise if Im remembering right this is the third or fourth time this year you're dealing with injury.
What's your weekly mileage at? What's your running frequency, like how many times a week? What's your typical easy and recover run paces? What supplementary and PT work are you doing?
Injury wise if Im remembering right this is the third or fourth time this year you're dealing with injury.
It's been the same spot every time, just mentioned multiple times and never really fully healed.
It popped up in april when I had constantly been ramping up my mileage and was around 60-70km a week. My first guess was "uh oh I think this might be a tibial stress fracture...", took it easy for only 2 weeks after the half in early april and started noticing it again when ramping back up so I took it very easy for about 4 weeks (see Strava screenshot above). Right around the time I was completely pain free again and planned to ramp it up again, I had that sharp stinging pain again. Went to a sports doc and he guessed it wasn't a stress fracture (yet) but I never got any radiological confirmation of that diagnosis.
My plan was to take 2 months mostly off (see july & august) and spend time in the gym rowing & stuff. But I took some courses in that gym with lots of jumping & sprinting...really the opposite of low impact work as was my original reasoning for going to the gym.
I've been back to running a little more for ~6 weeks now, averaging less than 25km a week. It felt a little tender in the beginning and I was trying to figure out if this was residual "learned" discomfort from the past injury or if it wasn't healed yet and I was just making it worse. It's been hard to figure it out since it's somewhat on and off.
Currently I'm thinking of having a talk with my GP and have him refer me to a radiologist to make sure the bone is ok (or not...).
What's your typical easy and recover run paces? What supplementary and PT work are you doing?
Paces would be roughly 3:45 for interval work, about 4:00 for tempo runs and easy runs around 5:20-5:45. I used to do a strength and mobility routine, calf stretches, lots of lunges, foam rolling but currently rather little of that is going on, my mind just isn't in "running mode" like I was in early spring.
On October 09 2019 01:39 Nocci wrote: Race for me on sunday.
Did another hard workout today that went much better than my last interval session. I did 3 mile repeats @3:45 min/km with 400m easy jog in between (5:58, 5:57, 5:57 for each 1600m, so pretty much dead on 6 minute miles ). Compared to that 5*1200m @3:35 it was a difference like night and day. First rep felt kinda easy, then they got hard & somewhat uncomfortable but manageable. I think this might be about my 5k race pace right now, at least I'm going to try and hit that on sunday.
After that I'm really unsure how to proceed, me leg is still giving me trouble. Today it felt surprisingly fine, other days my shin hurts just walking around. I'm definitely leaning towards being extra careful this time around, maybe even taking 6 weeks completely off if it flares up again...
Okay, I had a chance to go back and look at your history. I'm not surprised. It's easily 50% or even more, by duration, hard interval training. Currently, it's close to 75%, but even when you are running some miles earlier in the year its like 40-50% by volume, and like 50-70% by distribution of workouts.
No wonder you're getting injured like crazy. For good athletes, there is usually an 80/20 distribution of intensity by distribution of workouts (e.g. for every 8 runs they do easy, 2 runs are interval/hard sessions), and around 90/10 distribution by actual duration spent going hard/easy. You're almost flipped.
At you're training volume, you should have maybe 10-15' of hard running...the entire week. Zero would be fine. You're triple or even quadruple that, and I see almost no easy running in there.
This is especially true for people like yourself. You're not super light (very lean, but not light in terms of BMI) and you've got a big combination of either an athletic background or lots of natural aerobic ability, and the first thing you do is....start running a big volume of hard intervals. Injury 101 right there. Your tissues, ligaments, tendons, and skeleton aren't ready for those kinds of forces, especially with an engine like that. Aerobically, you can handle what you're doing. Physically, the body is lagging behind.
Take a look at what people like NonY, Bonham, Myself, etc. are doing. Bonham is a 1:12 or so HM guy (likely 15 high, 16 low 5k) with far more running conditioning and aerobic base than you. He, like you, is on the mend from an injury. His mileage is 50-70+...and almost all of it is at high 7s or low 8s pace. Nothing hard. Scale that for yourself and that's running at 9:xx mile pace, spending 7-10 hours a week like that, probably building towards 12-13.
Same thing for myself, I'm building back up, and doing most of my running at 9:xx-10:xx paces with a 20' current 5k pace. I've run 3 mini workouts in the past 5 weeks. Every other run has been easy jogging. If you want to get past the injury issues, this is where you need to be as well. Find a good PT, figure out if you have anything that needs fixing or strengthening. Do those exercises like your life depends on it. Then start running easy. 60% or so of HRmax, or like 150% of 5k pace. Build that to 40 or 50mpw...then think about some hard stuff. As a new runner, it's your aerobic system that is most lacking, so the biggest gains to be found are from this easy running anyway.
What's your typical easy and recover run paces? What supplementary and PT work are you doing?
Paces would be roughly 3:45 for interval work, about 4:00 for tempo runs and easy runs around 5:20-5:45. I used to do a strength and mobility routine, calf stretches, lots of lunges, foam rolling but currently rather little of that is going on, my mind just isn't in "running mode" like I was in early spring.
See my above post for overall stuff.
Pace wise, with around 18:40 5k that's fine for interval stuff, which case be at whatever pace. Threshold work is fast by 10s a mile at least, especially for a less aerobically developed, likely punchier runner like yourself. Starting threshold at 4:20 or so, rolling down into the low 4:0x range by the end would be a better fit. A HRM would be nice for determining that, but 4:00 is certainly not threshold.
Easy runs aren't too bad. That's reasonable. Only thing to note is that post hard workout days should trend more towards 5:40-6:00.
To that point, here is some really good stuff from Seiler (one of the guys conduction some of the best studies today on sub elite and recreational athletes):
Esteve-Lanao et al. (2007) randomized 12 sub-elite distance runners to one of two training groups (Z1 and Z2) that were carefully monitored for five months. They based their training intensity distribution on the 3-zone model described earlier and determined from treadmill testing. Based on time-in-zone heart-rate monitoring, Z1 performed 81, 12, and 8 % of training in Zones 1, 2, and 3 respectively. Z2 performed more threshold training, with 67, 25, and 8 % of training performed in the three respective zones. That is, Group Z2 performed twice as much training at or near the lactate threshold. In a personal communication, the authors reported that in pilot efforts, they were unable to achieve a substantial increase in the total time spent in Zone 3, as it was too hard for the athletes. Total training load was matched between the groups. Improvement in a cross-country time-trial performed before and after the five-month period revealed that the group that had performed more Zone 1 training showed significantly greater race time improvement (-157 ± 13 vs ‑122 ± 7 s).
So, pretty simply, 3 zones. Zone 1 is up to AeT (aerobic threshold, around MP ish), Zone 2 is Aet up to AnT (traditional threshold), Zone 3 is above Threshold (10k pace and harder).
They kept the zone 3 time the same for both groups (same amount of hard intervals) and kept the total training time the same. What they changed between the groups was time spent at "easy" intensity vs time spent at "moderately hard" intensity. The results speak for themselves, the moderate intensity group showed less performance improvement than the group training easier.
I think that's not what most people would expect. Group 2 had the same intervals, and did more of their other running faster than group 1 (who went really easy almost all the time). Despite that, Group 1 solidly outperformed Group 2.
In that same vein, here is another:
Most recently, Ingham et al. (2008) were able to randomize 18 experienced national standard male rowers from the UK into one of two training groups that were initially equivalent based on performance and physiological testing. All the rowers had completed a 25-d post-season training-free period just prior to baseline testing. One group performed “100 %” of all training at intensities below that eliciting 75 %VO2max (LOW). The other group performed 70 % training at the same low intensities as well as 30 % of training at an intensity 50 % of the way between power at lactate threshold and power at VO2max (MIX). In practice, MIX performed high intensity training on 3 d.wk-1. All training was performed on a rowing ergometer over the 12 wk. The two groups performed virtually identical volumes of training (~1140 km on the ergometer), with ±10 % individual variation allowed to accommodate for variation in athlete standard. Results of the study are summarized in Table 5.
Sixteen of 18 subjects set new personal bests for the 2000-m ergometer test at the end of the study. The authors concluded that LOW and MIX training had similar positive effects on performance and maximal oxygen consumption. LOW training appeared to induce a greater right-shift in the blood-lactate profile during sub-maximal exercise
Again, same thing here. This is rowing, 2000m performance is about 6' or so, similar to a mile or 2k in running. Both had similar improvement there. But notice what happens everywhere else? In 2mmol and 4mmol lactate power is dramatically higher for those training low intensity. 2mmol is around MP, 4mmol is around 10M to HMP. So, put simply for 2km the MIX group saw a little higher gain from anaerobically, but made only subtle aerobic gains. The LOW group, going easy, saw FAR greater aerobic gains. At the mile, they were basically the same, but the LOW group would rapidly pull away at all longer distances.
Notice also, that the "LOW" group, never went above 75% of VO2Max. That's basically saying that all they did was training below MP effort. Total training volume was the same. In other words, the guys going easy maintained ground at around mile race intensity, and obliterated the harder interval group at long distances.
To be honest, I could go on and on for days with this stuff, but the point here is clear and it's the #1 problem for serious recreational athletes. They tend to suck at intensity discipline. Too hard on easy days, too much interval volume relative to training volume, too hard on recovery days.
Thanks for posting all that, but it's not so much a lack of knowledge on my side... I kinda know most of that, it's what I used to do most of the time, what I keep telling friends when they ask me for running advice, I go on and on about capilarization, mitochondrial density and how development of those is mostly a function of time spent exercising not intensity, that running more is much more beneficial than running hard and to be able to run more it's only logical to take it easy, that interval & threshold training should just be the cherry on top. I mean I went from non-runner to 41min 10k on purely easy running.
It's just, that I'm suffering from a big case of "fuckarounditis"...
My head's not really in it (and not just running) and I'm flailing about in many areas of my life right now. The reason I'm running at all is because I have the strong urge to exercise and it helps keeping me sane and I mix it up with strength training so I'm doing something at least 4 days a week. I wouldn't have signed up for the race if it wasn't for a bunch of friends also participating. So I joined that 5k 5 weeks ago as a fitness check and then thought "hmmm I wonder what happens if I do just 2 interval sessions a week til the next race?". Like I said, fucking around instead of being smart
Weirdly, the only thing going right is nutrition (mostly anyways) and weight/fat loss, I'm back down to 70ish kg and I might have reached a new level of shreddedness.
But as I posted somewhere earlier: the plan after this race is to slowly base build (= purely easy running) either way, the only question is if I take some time off completely. It might not be a terrible idea to take a break for physical as well as mental reasons, especially since I wanted to have a go at cross country skiing this upcoming season.
On October 10 2019 15:06 Nocci wrote: Thanks for posting all that, but it's not so much a lack of knowledge on my side... I kinda know most of that, it's what I used to do most of the time, what I keep telling friends when they ask me for running advice, I go on and on about capilarization, mitochondrial density and how development of those is mostly a function of time spent exercising not intensity, that running more is much more beneficial than running hard and to be able to run more it's only logical to take it easy, that interval & threshold training should just be the cherry on top. I mean I went from non-runner to 41min 10k on purely easy running.
It's just, that I'm suffering from a big case of "fuckarounditis"...
My head's not really in it (and not just running) and I'm flailing about in many areas of my life right now. The reason I'm running at all is because I have the strong urge to exercise and it helps keeping me sane and I mix it up with strength training so I'm doing something at least 4 days a week. I wouldn't have signed up for the race if it wasn't for a bunch of friends also participating. So I joined that 5k 5 weeks ago as a fitness check and then thought "hmmm I wonder what happens if I do just 2 interval sessions a week til the next race?". Like I said, fucking around instead of being smart
Weirdly, the only thing going right is nutrition (mostly anyways) and weight/fat loss, I'm back down to 70ish kg and I might have reached a new level of shreddedness.
But as I posted somewhere earlier: the plan after this race is to slowly base build (= purely easy running) either way, the only question is if I take some time off completely. It might not be a terrible idea to take a break for physical as well as mental reasons, especially since I wanted to have a go at cross country skiing this upcoming season.
I gotcha. You're the outlier case of someone who does structured workouts in the midst of low focus. Most people wont do that kind of stuff when hearts not into it. They focus on tnn just unstructured easy/moderate.
Well at times I'm weird like that... I don't have years of formed habit so that I'd default to easy running when I'm not focused on a certain goal, if I didn't have that race today my "training" wouldn't have looked as strange I guess. And I mean it does feel really satisfying to run fast Going forward I'll most likely take it very easy for a couple of weeks, like 1-2 times a week an easy 5k just so that my legs don't completely forget how to turn over. I mean it's just a niggle right now (felt it during warm up today, didn't feel it during the race), but I want it to go away before I start proper base building again.
Race today: Considering my 18:57 five weeks ago, I hoped to come in somewhere between 18:30-19:00. Now you'd think I'd be disappointed with my 19:18 but the time really doesn't tell the full story.
What a crappy course! Really tight turns, undulating terrain, people having no clue that there's a race going on and standing in your way...oh and after weeks of typical fall weather (rainy 12-15°C) the sun decided to really crank it up one last time today and we had 27°C, no overcast with race start at 1:30pm. A friend of mine thought he'd have a legit shot at breaking 20 but it took him 20:48, 1st and 2nd place finishers today also participated in my last race and their times went 16:28 -> 17:37 and 17:10 -> 18:06.
It was a slow field overall and I was soooo close to catching the 3rd place finisher, 1 damn second! So I came in 4th after an awesome sprint battle to the finishing line.
Like 300m and one big ass hill to go: 3rd place, me and an overzealous 20m pacer: + Show Spoiler +
For me it's definitely motivating coming so close to an actual podium finish, time to clear my head and get my shit back together so that I can go sub 18 next year and maybe stand on the podium some day if I get lucky with "weak" competition!
On October 14 2019 02:23 Nocci wrote: Well at times I'm weird like that... I don't have years of formed habit so that I'd default to easy running when I'm not focused on a certain goal, if I didn't have that race today my "training" wouldn't have looked as strange I guess. And I mean it does feel really satisfying to run fast Going forward I'll most likely take it very easy for a couple of weeks, like 1-2 times a week an easy 5k just so that my legs don't completely forget how to turn over. I mean it's just a niggle right now (felt it during warm up today, didn't feel it during the race), but I want it to go away before I start proper base building again.
Race today: Considering my 18:57 five weeks ago, I hoped to come in somewhere between 18:30-19:00. Now you'd think I'd be disappointed with my 19:18 but the time really doesn't tell the full story.
What a crappy course! Really tight turns, undulating terrain, people having no clue that there's a race going on and standing in your way...oh and after weeks of typical fall weather (rainy 12-15°C) the sun decided to really crank it up one last time today and we had 27°C, no overcast with race start at 1:30pm. A friend of mine thought he'd have a legit shot at breaking 20 but it took him 20:48, 1st and 2nd place finishers today also participated in my last race and their times went 16:28 -> 17:37 and 17:10 -> 18:06.
It was a slow field overall and I was soooo close to catching the 3rd place finisher, 1 damn second! So I came in 4th after an awesome sprint battle to the finishing line.
Like 300m and one big ass hill to go: 3rd place, me and an overzealous 20m pacer: + Show Spoiler +
For me it's definitely motivating coming so close to an actual podium finish, time to clear my head and get my shit back together so that I can go sub 18 next year and maybe stand on the podium some day if I get lucky with "weak" competition!
Races like these can be really fun when you have a meaningful battle for a podium spot or just with a nearby guy. Some of my best running/bikes memories are of that stuff
I also want to give a big shout out to LuckyFool, who had a massive 30 min PR today in Chicago! Guy worked his butt off over the past year and it's really showing! Huge PRs at 5k/10k/10M/HM/M.
To be honest, his time could easily have been 10+ mins faster, but I didnt do a good job emphasizing nutriton and how much to take in. He was on a great schedule and then ran out of fuel.
Pretty excited to see what he does next. Sub 3 this time next year is big time in the cards.
Very nice results Nocci! I also know all too well what it's like to have nagging injuries and you seem to be handling it very positively and it seems like with a few adjustments to your training as L_Master suggests you can improve even more with less annoyances.
Damn, I remember LuckyFool, really cool to know his improvement, and such a big one, must have felt amazing.
As for me, yesterday I did my second and last race of the year! Very different from the first one and way tougher. Here's the strava link.
The start of the race was pretty standard, compact peloton with high speed and because of the false flat it was far from easy cruising and already a decent effort right from the start. At 16k there was a huge crash which I avoided with a lot of luck since the guy to my left was the first to fall and only 3 or 4 guys after me managed to avoid the crash before the road was totally blocked with guys on the ground. Soon after the climbs started to appear and the front group of some 60 guys started to split to pieces and at 25k there were just small groups all over the place.
I tried to pace myself on the conservative side because my endurance is still far from ideal and I tend to go too hard too soon. I felt great for most of the race, keeping a steady good pace with my group of 5/6 other riders but I think I was too generous with the length of my pulls and due to the hard course I started to tire very quickly after the 85k mark. I was very well prepared with nutrition but had trouble finding oportunities to eat and at the 100k mark I bonked. I was already cramping really bad and had to let go of the group I was in.
I ate an energy bar and had a gel which made me feel a lot better a few km later. In the meanwhile my chain dropped and I had to stop to quickly put it back. When I was getting back on the bike my left quad cramped so hard that I couldn't move not even to try to stretch for almost 2 min. It hurt like hell, and it still hurts right now, but when it relaxed I continued and soon a guy who was dropped from my group before catched me and we cooperated really nicely and I kept feeling better as we approached the finish.
The finish was a short steep climb and I gave it all there and I think I finished pretty strong, putting some 30sec into the guy I was with. At the end I finished 28th after being 20th in the intermediate time check.
Overall I'm pretty happy with how the race went, although I bonked near the end I know it was because of the hard course and because I had a hard time finding good oportunities to feed. Still I recovered and finished strong, also my main goal was to finish and manage the effort well as possible which I feel I achieved pretty well.
Now some rest and then I'll start preparing for the next year, where I hope I can get better results.
Meh. My left foot kinda ball of the foot around the middle 3 toes is definitely unhappy with me putting weight on it. Bike doesn't elicit that, so that's good...but I'll be taking at least a few days off and hoping it is just some impact damage from rocks and faster downhills the other day rather than the more nefarious sfx.
Did anyone watch the 1:59 challenge? I can't believe he did it. I was also just as impressed with Bekele coming back in berlin a few days earlier. Amazing
On October 19 2019 09:54 MrShankly wrote: Did anyone watch the 1:59 challenge? I can't believe he did it. I was also just as impressed with Bekele coming back in berlin a few days earlier. Amazing
Yea, great stuff, even if the shoes have a ton to do with it. Kipchoge v Bekele would have been better, but it was a solid week or two
Now the question is, can Bekele keep it together, that's always the struggle for him.
On October 19 2019 09:54 MrShankly wrote: Did anyone watch the 1:59 challenge? I can't believe he did it. I was also just as impressed with Bekele coming back in berlin a few days earlier. Amazing
Yea, great stuff, even if the shoes have a ton to do with it. Kipchoge v Bekele would have been better, but it was a solid week or two
Now the question is, can Bekele keep it together, that's always the struggle for him.
The event also seemed to be executed much better in general.
Been a week now and I still feel something in my foot. Not hopeful. Gonna give it till the weekend, try and a run, but if it returns I'm gonna suspect sfx.
On the plus side training is going well. Might put together a decent training over the semester for first time in a while.
Just finished a soul crushing nonstop (well, two one-hour long restaurant + recharge stops) 650km ride and managed to discard rather than save the trip on my garmin. If it's not on Strava it didn't happen, huh? Pretty bummed about that, then again the ride deteriorated to utter crap in the second half so maybe it's better to spare me the embarrassment lol. Lots of big lessons learned that should be applicable for any future tours but also shorter rides as well. Think I want to get a real power meter now, would be a big help with pacing and properly managing energy I think.
On October 14 2019 14:27 L_Master wrote: I also want to give a big shout out to LuckyFool, who had a massive 30 min PR today in Chicago! Guy worked his butt off over the past year and it's really showing! Huge PRs at 5k/10k/10M/HM/M.
To be honest, his time could easily have been 10+ mins faster, but I didnt do a good job emphasizing nutriton and how much to take in. He was on a great schedule and then ran out of fuel.
Pretty excited to see what he does next. Sub 3 this time next year is big time in the cards.
Way late on this but wanted to add my voice to the chorus here. Huge congrats to LuckyFool! I really enjoyed following your training and reading your race report. Hats off both for a great race and all the hard work you put into the prep. I've shaken my head in admiration many times on Strava when looking at your training runs at ungodly hours in ungodly weather. Cant' wait to see what's next for you!
On October 24 2019 08:36 L_Master wrote: Been a week now and I still feel something in my foot. Not hopeful. Gonna give it till the weekend, try and a run, but if it returns I'm gonna suspect sfx.
On the plus side training is going well. Might put together a decent training over the semester for first time in a while.
Still struggling with the eating though. Bleh.
What's sfx? It's not... stress fracture is it? I hope it's not.
Finally, some news that's too weird not to pass along: an amateur runner here in Canada recently tested positive for EPO and a few other banned substances. I don't know him but I know of him. Dude's name is David Freake and he lives out in Newfoundland.
The thing I find so weird about this is that Freake is a long, long way from the level where you can make any real money in running. (Well, no one in Canada is at that level, really, but I digress.) His marathon PB is 2:33, same as me, though he's gone way faster in the half (1:08). That's faster than most people at most races, sure, but it's a million zillion years from going to the Olympics or whatever.
So why cheat? Why cheapen your own results (and maybe endanger your health and, in this case, destroy your reputation to boot)? Just for the pleasure of winning an unfair game, I suppose.
On October 14 2019 14:27 L_Master wrote: I also want to give a big shout out to LuckyFool, who had a massive 30 min PR today in Chicago! Guy worked his butt off over the past year and it's really showing! Huge PRs at 5k/10k/10M/HM/M.
To be honest, his time could easily have been 10+ mins faster, but I didnt do a good job emphasizing nutriton and how much to take in. He was on a great schedule and then ran out of fuel.
Pretty excited to see what he does next. Sub 3 this time next year is big time in the cards.
Way late on this but wanted to add my voice to the chorus here. Huge congrats to LuckyFool! I really enjoyed following your training and reading your race report. Hats off both for a great race and all the hard work you put into the prep. I've shaken my head in admiration many times on Strava when looking at your training runs at ungodly hours in ungodly weather. Cant' wait to see what's next for you!
On October 24 2019 08:36 L_Master wrote: Been a week now and I still feel something in my foot. Not hopeful. Gonna give it till the weekend, try and a run, but if it returns I'm gonna suspect sfx.
On the plus side training is going well. Might put together a decent training over the semester for first time in a while.
Still struggling with the eating though. Bleh.
What's sfx? It's not... stress fracture is it? I hope it's not.
Finally, some news that's too weird not to pass along: an amateur runner here in Canada recently tested positive for EPO and a few other banned substances. I don't know him but I know of him. Dude's name is David Freake and he lives out in Newfoundland.
The thing I find so weird about this is that Freake is a long, long way from the level where you can make any real money in running. (Well, no one in Canada is at that level, really, but I digress.) His marathon PB is 2:33, same as me, though he's gone way faster in the half (1:08). That's faster than most people at most races, sure, but it's a million zillion years from going to the Olympics or whatever.
So why cheat? Why cheapen your own results (and maybe endanger your health and, in this case, destroy your reputation to boot)? Just for the pleasure of winning an unfair game, I suppose.
In conclusion, people are weird.
Yea sfx = stress fracture. It's what jumps out as possibilities based on the localized pressure if its not just a bone bruise or similar from striking a rock. Downside is, I don't have $ to access a PT so will never now for sure.
Would be a bummer if it is, as I was just getting going, but I think that's usually an 8-12 week affair...so still 4 months at least to prepare for Horsetooth HM if it goes okay...and I like bikes...and they keep my fitness high...so it's not a disaster. A HM would ideally require a little more time for fatigue resistance so I'll suffer a bit there if I need 2-3 months to build mileage and only 1-2 months for actual workouts, but not terribly because the engine can still be in killer shape. If it was a 5k I wouldn't even be worried at all.
RE: Canadian Doper Dude - This guy I saw on LRC. Probably desperate to make the trials. Doping is a HUGE thing for masters athletics. Not sure if it's common at sub elite level. Certainly a guy like this is rare. I mean the stupidity here is off the charts:
- Busted AT a race. Just how dumb are you?
- On DNP. Fucking DNP. Like what? DNP is a potent decoupler of the electron transport chain. It allows the proton gradient to disspate without powering ATPase to make energy...so basically you get shitloads of heat. Dude is running a marathon. What is something you need in a marathon? Oh yea...energy. What hurts performance in M more than anything else? Getting your body temp up above 99F. Literally has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of
- Oh, if I wasn't clear, he was on DNP. Running a marathon. DNP is super dangerous. You overdose, you literally cook from the inside. Body asks for more energy, no energy there. Just makes heat. Tries to get more energy, more heat. You just burn up from the inside suffering organ failure as body temp soars about 105F. This guy decided adding a M onto that was a clever idea.
Best of luck that it's not actually a stress fracture or at least tiny enough that it'll heal fast.
No running for me the last 2 weeks and I'll take another week off before easing back into it. Getting a little stir crazy cause the motivation to run again is pretty high. The plan is to start with ~20 minutes twice a week in november and build really slowly this time - all provided that I'm absolutely pain free beforehand. I'm already working a bit on ankle flexibility and hip strength (definite weak points for me) but it's tough to be disciplined about it when not actually running.
I think I'll treat myself to a stryd footpod for christmas. I've been eyeing it in the past and the new version looks really interesting with the wind sensor. I'm mostly interested in it for accurate instant pace but being able to keep a constant effort on the hilly trails seems also very useful. On top of that I just like gadgets & data and getting a stryd makes much more sense than needlesly upgrading my watch.
Definitely something nefarious. Almost 2 weeks off running, then half mile jog last night. Unhappy foot today.
Meh. Gonna take November off and try again in December. Might mean no real running for me until fall..although I will try to maintain some base mileage year round so getting started isn't so bad
Lots to catch up on here! Congrats to everyone who had big results the past few months. It looks like there were some fast times and strong efforts all around.
Re: easy/interval running, I have been trying to be more mindful of running my casual/"everyday" runs at an easy and relaxed pace. I have been reading and absorbing a lot of information about running, training, injury, and anything else related. I have not had a serious injury yet but have had some minor pains, likely from overtraining/over-reaching and I want to keep those down so I can better enjoy my time running.
For me, I tend to do 40-50% of runs in a group setting with one of those being a structured track workout totalling 5-6k. There is a tendency for the 10k group runs and sunday long runs (20-30km as a targeted marathon training run, but also every week, even in the off-season) to be a bit on the fast side for my liking, somewhere in the 4:30-5:00 pace range. We tend to naturally segment off to smaller chunks and I have been trying to just run my own pace without getting caught up in the group, around 5:10-5:30 pace. I know I can run those faster paces but don't feel any need to. I'm not trying to prove anything to those around me or myself on those runs, it's just another run.
On October 25 2019 14:37 Nocci wrote: I think I'll treat myself to a stryd footpod for christmas. I've been eyeing it in the past and the new version looks really interesting with the wind sensor. I'm mostly interested in it for accurate instant pace but being able to keep a constant effort on the hilly trails seems also very useful. On top of that I just like gadgets & data and getting a stryd makes much more sense than needlesly upgrading my watch.
One of the guys I run with started using the Garmin "Run Power" metric recently and posted a few graphs on strava. He hit 580W @ 2:50/km during the final 300m all-out segment of this week's track workout! Also he noted that when running by power on his long run, he felt like he was walking up hills and had to constantly pull back the effort to stay on target power, but then was running much faster downhill. That may be something to keep in mind re: injury if you end up powering down hills on the road all the time.
Also, a few of the runners in our club used the Stryd footpods as part of a study this past summer for a few months. I don't know what became of the data but people really seemed to like it. It will show you your power as well as time spent on each foot to show any left/right imbalances you may have
PR'd in the half marathon with a 1:10:17. I had been sick and was able to scrap together a decent race but I think that really should have been the race to go sub-1:10 at least. My legs were not getting as tired and burning up as they normally should in a half marathon, but I felt very low on energy. Though I'm not near the ~1:05 shape that I had hoped to be at this point, I'm still making progress and feeling good about upcoming training.
I have a road 5k coming up on Thanksgiving (Nov 28) where I hope to finally go sub-15. After that I won't be racing for a while, maybe not all winter. I think I may do a 10 mile race in early April and then do speed work and mid distance training for a few months for a mile race in June.
Hi all! How are you? Hope your running is going well !
With a friend we are planning to try to run a 70km trail (4000m D+) in July. I have some (very limited) experience with marathon running and trail running (on shorter distances, max 40km), but I would like to built a proper training plan for this one.
Do you have any good references (books / articles / websites) which I can study to prepare my own training? Quickly googling brings up a lot of pre-cooked plans and tips&advice, but I'd like to come up with something more structured for me (keeping into account other activities which I'll do in parallel, especially ski mountaineering and climbing)
Any advice is super welcome !
The race is in July, and for the moment we are slowly (very slowly) getting used to running again (last time I run a marathon was in 2017), with 2 easy pace runs a week of 8-10km at 5.30-6min/km.. we'll keep this up until the end of the year, and we are mixing in some hikes at a good pace (1000m D+ in ~ 1h), but from January we have to start a proper training program organized in the 6 following months if we want to avoid not finishing the race
On October 24 2019 10:09 Salazarz wrote: Just finished a soul crushing nonstop (well, two one-hour long restaurant + recharge stops) 650km ride and managed to discard rather than save the trip on my garmin. If it's not on Strava it didn't happen, huh? Pretty bummed about that, then again the ride deteriorated to utter crap in the second half so maybe it's better to spare me the embarrassment lol. Lots of big lessons learned that should be applicable for any future tours but also shorter rides as well. Think I want to get a real power meter now, would be a big help with pacing and properly managing energy I think.