A couple days ago I changed my in-game sensitivity to ~67%, and I noticed it felt quite strange. Jump forward to today, while alt-tabbed from SC2 I noticed my mouse sensitivity was the same in Windows as it was in-game, so I checked the mouse sensitivity in the control panel -> mouse window, and lo and behold it is about 8/11. As some of you may know, putting your Windows mouse sensitivity above 6/11 results in a huge loss of precision.
I really don't understand why it doesn't use DirectInput (or even better, raw input ala QL/CPM), and use a real in-game sensitivity like Quake/Quake3, etc. can. You can notice the effects on your own PC by putting the slider to 6/11, drawing some curved shapes in pbrush, then changing it to 11/11 and comparing the two. e.g.
TLDR: Don't change in-game sensitivity (unless Blizzard fix it) or your windows sensitivity. Buy a mouse with higher DPI or use a lower resolution.
yea always leave windows sensitivy at 6/11 and in-game sensitivity on 50%, and get your mouse sensitivity how you like it by adjusting your mouse's dpi. That way you always have a 1-1 pixel precision.
Good find. If you set your Windows mouse precision higher than the middle setting, then for every pixel that your mouse reports moving, Windows will move the cursor (1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 / 3.5) pixels for the 7th-11th settings, respectively. In other words, if you set your mouse setting to 8/11 it is impossible to land on an odd-numbered pixel!
The middle (6/11) setting is 1 to 1 and is safe to use.
Yeah, when I installed SC2 after beta ended I noticed my mouse sensitivity was WAAAYYY low... so I cranked it up to 85%... and then when I switched back to BW after finishing placement it was WAAYYYY high... it was 11/11 in the windows slider -I usually keep it at 7/11.
On August 07 2010 14:58 professorjoak wrote: Good find. If you set your Windows mouse precision higher than the middle setting, then for every pixel that your mouse reports moving, Windows will move the cursor (1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 / 3.5) pixels for the 7th-11th settings, respectively. In other words, if you set your mouse setting to 8/11 it is impossible to land on an odd-numbered pixel!
The middle (6/11) setting is 1 to 1 and is safe to use.
On August 07 2010 14:54 epik640x wrote: So in SC2 we should leave it/put it at 50%?
Yes, 50% in-game and 6/11 in Windows (the middle/default setting) will give you a 1:1 pixel-accurate cursor movement.
This (I think obviously) only applies if Windows and SC2 are the only programs modifying your sensitivity.
If you're using, say, Razer drivers, it gets a bit trickier.
Yeah, I don't have a Razer mouse here so I can't test, and I'm unsure of how the Razer mouse sensitivity setting works. If you put your Windows to 6/11 and put the Razer sensitivity to full, and try something in pbrush like the image above you should be able to tell if it's the same pixel-jumping method or if it's something a bit more stable/precise.
The reason the mouse skips pixels is because you don't have "enhance pointer precision" (I hear this is some form of mouse acceleration, maybe not good for some people, but I like it)
I usually have windows sensitivity high (or possibly maxed), checkmark "enhance pointer precision", and use the DPI I want on my mouse (which is the max of 2000, or sometimes 1600). Obviously you can choose non-max windows sensitivity, but even then you should select "enhance pointer precision" as far as I know.
On a different, but related note: Anyone know what "reduce mouse lag" in SC2 does? Anyone noticed a difference? which do they prefer?
I do know on my old computer, when i played against 4 AIs and my machine slowed down to like 1-3FPS, my mouse clicks and stuff wouldn't register really. Perhaps that has something to do with that setting (it was disabled).
On August 07 2010 15:15 AnxietE wrote: do you really need 1:1 ration if you only RTS? and browse web.
Of course you don't NEED it. We didn't NEED to get rid of dusty balls in our mice either but people like to use what's better.
wait... we got rid of those? FFFUUUU!!!!
on topic: Testing this... sounds VERY interesting..
Edit: T.T ... WOW! I see what you mean by putting it on 11/11, the mouse like skips a few pixels, no, a LOT of pixels... well this helps narrow some choices for future purchases ... thanks!
I use 3/11 for FPS gaming and windows anyway with a higher DPI mouse. Theres no problem with using 3/11 - 4/11 - to 6/11, the "1:1" might be true with the mouse counts but it's not losing performance at lower numbers either, just changes the DPI basically. Above 6/11 isn't good though.
Though 3/11 is a little slow for SC2, I kind of like 5/11 seems about my speed with a 1800dpi mouse..
pksens, your resolution matters a lot too. At 2000 DPI, 6/11 sensitivity just doesn't cut it for me at 2148x1536. Even 1600x1200 it feels a bit poor, but I think I'll try it out.
The thing about when I have pointer acceleration on (enhance pointer precision), I can move from one end of the screen to the other, without loosing significant, if ANY vertical position. This is partially because my DPI isn't enough to go more than 45-55% across the screen by flicking my wrist without acceleration, but I can do so easily with the acceleration. It also accelerates the horizontal movement so much (and/or processes mouse intended movement), it makes the line straighter, so much so that there is sometimes no vertical loss.
I think it's really quite debatable if someone used to and using acceleration is any worse accuracy than someone used to and using no acceleration. I will say however, that they can certainly be faster if both DPIs aren't sufficient.
On August 07 2010 14:37 stafu wrote: TLDR: Don't change in-game sensitivity (unless Blizzard fix it) or your windows sensitivity. Buy a mouse with higher DPI or use a lower resolution.
'That is just ignorant advice, having your mouse skip pixels gets exactly the same effects for the mouse as playing with lower resolution, which means that the only real difference is that the game now looks like shit. I play with it going 2 pixels per mouse pixel and I never had any problems with precision since the game don't notice a difference between if you click a pixel or its neighbor.
Lower resolution on a CRT monitor is different to using non-native LCD res, and although it's still similar to using a higher res and changing Windows sensitivity, it's not the same. It's more about the feel I guess — I hate that feeling of skipping over pixels that are actually there.
On August 07 2010 19:06 friendlybus wrote: 2/11 18% 2000dpi. what evs!
This is fine — as someone mentioned a few posts up (I think), using a lower Windows sensitivity (below 6/11) is fine and doesn't have the same pixel-skipping problem/loss of precision.
yeah I've noticed this as well. I've spent a lot of time playing competitive q3/ql/cpm/qw and I always instantly get put to a hard decision when games don't use raw or at LEAST direct input. It's pretty horrible :[ - good post highlighting this issue, thanks.
On August 07 2010 19:10 green.at wrote: thouh shalt not change ingame sensitivity -> get a good mouse and change it directly there
o_O
I've changed my mouse sensitivty both in Setpoint AND in game. Am I just overriding the first when I change the second or something?
Yep, though I can't totally confirm specifically for Setpoint, but if it works the same/is tied to Windows sensitivity (which at least the older Logitech Setpoint drivers were), then as soon as you load SC2 it would set that sensitivity to whatever the closest notch is to your SC2 sensitivity percentage.
On August 07 2010 19:10 green.at wrote: thouh shalt not change ingame sensitivity -> get a good mouse and change it directly there
o_O
I've changed my mouse sensitivty both in Setpoint AND in game. Am I just overriding the first when I change the second or something?
There's a tickable option for "Use OS native drivers for pointer speed and acceleration" if that's ticked then setpoint settings will have no effect at all, your mouse cursor will go by windows settings. If it's unticked then it'll go by setpoint's settings. According to a logitech rep to get a "1:1" with setpoint is to have it at speed - 5 and acceleration - 0. Depending on what mouse you have and what resolution you use it may not move fast/slow enough for you.
On August 07 2010 19:10 green.at wrote: thouh shalt not change ingame sensitivity -> get a good mouse and change it directly there
o_O
I've changed my mouse sensitivty both in Setpoint AND in game. Am I just overriding the first when I change the second or something?
In my experience, changing the speed in setpoint works exactly like the mouse speed in windows. If you go over half way, you start to skip pixels and if you go to max it's just horrible. You can test it in paint.
But that leaves me this question: at 2000dpi and halfway speed, my mouse is way too slow at 1920*1200, so is there a way to speed it up without losing accuracy?
On August 07 2010 17:37 Xapti wrote: The reason the mouse skips pixels is because you don't have "enhance pointer precision" (I hear this is some form of mouse acceleration, maybe not good for some people, but I like it)
I usually have windows sensitivity high (or possibly maxed), checkmark "enhance pointer precision", and use the DPI I want on my mouse (which is the max of 2000, or sometimes 1600). Obviously you can choose non-max windows sensitivity, but even then you should select "enhance pointer precision" as far as I know.
On a different, but related note: Anyone know what "reduce mouse lag" in SC2 does? Anyone noticed a difference? which do they prefer?
I do know on my old computer, when i played against 4 AIs and my machine slowed down to like 1-3FPS, my mouse clicks and stuff wouldn't register really. Perhaps that has something to do with that setting (it was disabled).
Sometimes your mouse and just go all funky on you. Or rather, your mouse slows down (laggy, not sensitivity wise). So by enabling this, you're for sure that your mouse will be accurate and smooth. but it does cost some performance. If everything is normal for you, don't need to enable it unless you do. I just enable it just incase.
I've got a razer viper with no driver installed for it (set point is installed for my dead g3 though but i don't use it) I've always had my windows xp mouse set to 7/11 (6 feels too slow) and my resolution is 1280x1024 for windows and in game 1024x768 and like 70% mouse accell.
On August 07 2010 19:10 green.at wrote: thouh shalt not change ingame sensitivity -> get a good mouse and change it directly there
o_O
I've changed my mouse sensitivty both in Setpoint AND in game. Am I just overriding the first when I change the second or something?
basically yes (not 100% sure though ) the best thing you can do is set the windows mouse thingy exactly halfway and use your mouse to get the speed you want.
On August 08 2010 00:46 Bair wrote: So then...anyone want to reccomend a decent mouse? Something besides the $.50 mouse they give out with crappy new computers?
Unfortunately the only mice with >400 dpi that don't have at least some angle snapping/prediction are some Razer mice (DA I believe has a firmware update to get rid of prediction) and SteelSeries mice with FreeMove (e.g. Xai, but unfortunately not Kinzu).
In general I would steer clear of laser mice and stick with optical though. Perhaps it's not a big issue for RTS games but lift-off distance with laser mice is still quite bad. I haven't checked out the Zowie gear yet but apparently they use the same sensors as Logitech MX518 so they will have anglesnapping.
In short, there's no *perfect* mouse yet. I can only assume it's a ploy by gaming hardware companies to be able to get people to buy rubbish and then slowly upgrade it with each iteration. Whatever you do, steer clear of Logitech Mini Optical — just because progamers use it doesn't mean it's good, especially for StarCraft 2, where you'll no longer be using 640x480. I have two of them and the sensor is just absolutely terrible. Pity though, because the shell is quite nice.
Anyway, some decent options (though they either have anglesnapping or lower DPI): MS 1.1 or 3.0 (400-450 DPI) SteelSeries Kinzu (or Xai, but it's slightly larger; Kinzu is more suited to RTS) - 1800 DPI (Xai 3200) Razer DA (1800 DPI I think? The older, better optical sensor anyway) Razer Salmosa (Asian edition is smaller which is good for RTS — you can probably find one on eBay) Razer Krait (haven't used this though)
Nice info in here. I use a Razer (seriously once you use one you never go back) so I've never touched my windows settings but this post made me double check just to be sure
"Enhance pointer precision" is acceleration, so I turn it off.
The fact that liftoff distance for laser mice is bad hasn't affected my gaming, but it's annoying for the times when I feel like slouching in my chair and realize that I can't use my knee as a mousing surface for my G5 the way I could my old Microsoft Intellimouse.
On August 07 2010 23:31 floor exercise wrote:
But that leaves me this question: at 2000dpi and halfway speed, my mouse is way too slow at 1920*1200, so is there a way to speed it up without losing accuracy?
If you are using the full 2000dpi in advanced settings, it means you should cover your monitor horizontally by moving the mouse only an inch, and only .6 inches for vertical traversal. Is that really too slow?
Question, if the higher you have your mouse sensitivity set in your control panel is worse (i.e. 11/11 bad, 6/11 good), then why wouldn't you just set the mouse sensitivity to 1/11 and only adjust your mouse's DPI???
Can you adjust every mouse's DPI? I have a simple plain Logitech optical and I don't find some DPI settings in the SetPoint program from Logitech. Furthermore a clarification: 6/11 in Windows, 50% in SC2 and then cranking up the DPI in order to get a higher mouse speed? Without a higher DPI setting the mouse will be WAY to slow for a RTS game, so these recommendations should only be considered when you have a modern mouse.
On August 08 2010 01:24 professorjoak wrote: If you are using the full 2000dpi in advanced settings, it means you should cover your monitor horizontally by moving the mouse only an inch, and only .6 inches for vertical traversal. Is that really too slow?
On August 08 2010 01:24 professorjoak wrote: If you are using the full 2000dpi in advanced settings, it means you should cover your monitor horizontally by moving the mouse only an inch, and only .6 inches for vertical traversal. Is that really too slow?
For sc2, yes.
It really isn't, it just might take you a couple days to get used to, trust me Lots of progamers use much lower sensitivity than you might think. For example watch NaDa play in this video here. You'll notice he lifts the mouse quite often — a consequence (although completely unnoticeable once you're used to your sensitivity) of a lower sensitivity.
On August 08 2010 01:34 BigT wrote: Question, if the higher you have your mouse sensitivity set in your control panel is worse (i.e. 11/11 bad, 6/11 good), then why wouldn't you just set the mouse sensitivity to 1/11 and only adjust your mouse's DPI???
You can do this. Some mice have issues with ridiculously high DPI though (such as negative acceleration), so it's safer to stick with 6/11 and use the lowest comfortable DPI.
Alright folks you need to understand a few things here.
You do not experience pixel skipping until you're over 8/11 in windows and you also have issues at 1/11 and 2/11. I agree that the in-game slider is fucking retarded and should be changed to a system more like QL/CS as someone else mentioned.
for the record I play at 1800 DPI 6/11 in SC2 and 1800 3/11 2.8/3.2 sens for CS/QL
There was some counterstrike mouse guide saying if you go below 6/11 sensitivity, your pointer on the screen will have a tendency to go to the left.
Plant your hand on your mouse pad. Start making small circles such that your hand (or the base of your hand) won't move left, right, up, or down. Now, I'm at work right now so my mouse probably isn't that reliable but after a while I've noticed that my pointer on my screen goes shift left. The shift is rather gradual but when I'm playing a game I don't want to have to lift my mouse up. I've only tested this at 6/11 sensitivity. The guide says it becomes more exaggerated the lower you go.
Just something to think about.
P.S. If you really want me to find the guide I'll look for it.
Anyways, how those then blizzard change the sensitivity for the middle mouse button. I have higher sensitivity when pressing middle mouse button in SC2 in order to move the screen than I have on my overall mouse sensitivity for select units.
I just use 6/11 800 DPI. I play at 1920x1200. I can change my mouse to 2000 DPI but I heard bad things about changing the sens from 6/11. Also all you guys saying you have "enhance pointer precision" on I'd turn it off. Im pretty sure pointer precision is just mouse acceleration which is bad.
Yeah, enhance pointer precision is mouse acceleration. Some people (especially Q3 players) actually like mouse accel, and you can get used to it, but I wouldn't recommend it for RTS gaming.
Really? I would imagine Quake 3 players wouldnt like mouse acceleration. I was never into Quake 3 though and I personally cant stand mouse acceleration.
Yeah surprisingly most of the top Q3/QL players use acceleration — some even use pretty high values. Rapha/Cooller/Cypher/Jibo/av3k/strenx etc. all use between 0.1-0.5 mouseaccel. I used it myself for a couple months and you definitely get used to it, and there are pretty nice advantages to it especially in terms of hitscan accuracy while retaining 100% normal movement/freedom.
I always had Windows at max and bw/sc2 ingame at max too.... never really had an issue. I will try this tonight and maybe adjust the speed with the razer driver instead.
At least 50 pct. of the people in this thread are giving completely wrong advice, "enhanced pointer precision on is great!", "... slider at less than 6/11 is fine", etc. Wrong!
The first one is a long read, but very informative. The second is how to get rid of that last bit of mouse acceleration that sometimes gets forced on by games, even when turned off in windows (acceleration = enhanced pointer precision).
As for OP, I tried turning my ingame sensitivity way up like 100%, tabbed out to find my windows sensitivity on the usual 6/11?!?! Am I doing something wrong here? do I need to reboot first or what? As far as I can see the two sliders don't have anything in common.
@ Daewon: StarCraft 2 sets sensitivity back to whatever you had it on when you alt-tab, I just happened to have something weird happen to my computer to realise what was going on (I think I ctrl-alt-del or some background thing popped me out of SC2 so it didn't reset the sensitivity). If you doubt how it works, go into SC2 and put the sensitivity to 100%, and try to move 1 pixel on the screen. It will skip, just as it does in Windows and how it is visible in pbrush.
Nice catch! Changed mine from 7/11 to 6/11 now and I feel a slight difference in precision. Have no idea why its even that high when i have a 5600 dpi mouse =/
Alright stafu, so basically what you're saying is that the windows slider and the SC2 slider is in fact one and the same. However when you quit SC2 or alt-tab from SC2 the windows slider is put back to whatever value you have it on, independent of the current SC2 ingame value, is that correct?
BTW I did a little test with markc windows 7 acceleration fix and found that SC2 doesn't force acceleration on (which some games do, even if you have it turned off), so that's a good thing I guess.
Nice catch, its about time I get use to a nice static setting instead of moving everything around. I keep my DPI around 1600, but I have a really retarded mouse. Time to get meh a new onez.
Hm. I remember a day or two after I got the game, I increased the mouse sensitivity to 60-something%, and then I was comfortable with it. Never had any problems. I just checked my windows mouse settings, and it's still on the 6th fret. However, I'm playing on a laptop with a logitech mouse and logitech software (SetPoint), which probably explains it
I think this is only a problem for the people who didn't use markc's fix. For example i use 100% on SC2 but it does not alter my windows setting because my registery is set for 11/11 with a forced 2.25 pixel skip which I set because i simply don't have enough DPI (800). Planning on picking up a 3.5G Deathadder this week.
Just did a few tests, you're correct, this does happen. But with "Enhance Pointer precision" option on like the above poster said, the problem is non-existent.
Btw: if your mouse drivers have "enhance pointer precision" it's is probably just an alternate place for teh windows setting, atleast its like that with steelseries.
and this is what the 'Enhance pointer precision' option does: If you move the mouse slowly, the pointer moves even slower to allow you fine control over objects selected
On August 16 2010 08:01 dbddbddb wrote: I thought 'enhance pointer precision' was just another term for 'mouse acceleration' which is highly looked down upon in gaming
I have a regular boring IBM mouse, and 6/11 with no enhanced pointer precision is way too slow.
Do you really need a fancy razor mouse just to play sc2, I just leave it on 8/11 with enhanced precision, "bad" or not I would kill myself if I had to play with the super slow mouse.
On August 14 2010 05:16 Daewon wrote: At least 50 pct. of the people in this thread are giving completely wrong advice, "enhanced pointer precision on is great!", "... slider at less than 6/11 is fine", etc. Wrong!
The first one is a long read, but very informative. The second is how to get rid of that last bit of mouse acceleration that sometimes gets forced on by games, even when turned off in windows (acceleration = enhanced pointer precision).
As for OP, I tried turning my ingame sensitivity way up like 100%, tabbed out to find my windows sensitivity on the usual 6/11?!?! Am I doing something wrong here? do I need to reboot first or what? As far as I can see the two sliders don't have anything in common.
Jesus Christ, thanks. I was about to pop a blood vessel in my forehead before I saw your post.
Why are people even opening their mouths if they know nothing about the subject?
I'm pretty new with SC2 and I can already see the difference this has made for me. You wouldn't think that slight precision would help all too much but play a few games and you'll really notice how much this helped.
On August 16 2010 19:43 FieryBalrog wrote: I have a regular boring IBM mouse, and 6/11 with no enhanced pointer precision is way too slow.
Do you really need a fancy razor mouse just to play sc2, I just leave it on 8/11 with enhanced precision, "bad" or not I would kill myself if I had to play with the super slow mouse.
new non-gaming mice have higher dpi than older mice, so really you can just do that... or you can get some tried and true mice, such as mx518 instead of brand new gaming mice (which imo are overpriced, although i do admit to owning some :O)
mx518 at 1800dpi (or whatever you prefer, i still use 400dpi from my fps background, but i dont think you would like that) 6/11, disable enhanced precision and youve got an accurate mouse that isn't slow~
these are words to live by in the first person shooter world.
never change from 6/11 because 6/11 1:1. if you lower it, windows will cut some of the information being sent to it. if you raise it, windows will sort of stretch it out so it skips a lot of pixels but moves faster.
SC2's ingame mouse sensitivity works the same way. if it's above or below default, it will mess with the information it is getting because starcraft just tracks where the mouse is on the desktop.
the trick to having a perfectly configured mouse is making sure all of the input is unchanged. 6/11 in windows, maximum in mouse drivers, and, in the case of a game like starcraft, at default setting.
Edit: I should read before i post, i should read before i post, i should read before i post, i should read before i post, i should read before i post, i should read before i post, ...
Ok I have a question which I don't THINK was answered in this thread... (I checked briefly).
1) What is the default SC2 ingame sensitivity? 2) What % should I set it to, to get the same 1:1 ratio? I mean, from what I remember when you just install the game its set to 20%, which seems really low...?
EDIT:
There is this post:
On August 07 2010 14:56 damiah wrote: you should never change your windows sensitivity from default - this is pretty well known
50% is matching windows sens but in the end you either want Blizzard to do it the right way or get a mouse with changeable DPI
But it just seems odd since IIRC the starting sensitivity is 20% (or is that only for the keyboard scroll?), and 50% feels different from 6/11...
Jinro there is an easy way for you to test this for yourself.
Set the windows slider to 6/11, and make sure acceleration/enhanced pointer is NOT on.
If you have mousedrivers installed (which the really hardcore crowd advices against), make sure the OS settings are used (setpoint often have a checkbox for this).
Next goto this link and download the windows 7 mouse fix package, dont install anything but just unzip it and double click the mouserecorder file, it wont install anything on your PC but rather open a little window where you can see if you get 1:1 mousemovement. Black background means you do, red or green, you do not (Note: there will be some reds and greens once you start moving the mouse really fast, but that's a windows/mouserec problem and doesn't mean you don't have 1:1).
Now boot up SC2 and move your mouse around a little, next al+tab out and see the background color in mouserecorder, if it's black whatever sens you have in SC2 is fine, if not you need to adjust it.
I haven't tested this myself, please let me know which SC2 sensitivity you end up with :-)
Just count yourself lucky you don't have to deal with the SC2's interaction with the horrendously broken (for games at least) mouse acceleration on Mac.
On August 18 2010 03:56 Avokodo wrote: so if i have my windows mouse settings set to 6/11 and sc2 settings set to say 70% im not loosing precision right ?
The whole point with ops thread was to say that if you change your ingame sens you change windows sens.
And changing windows sens above 6/11 = terrible terrible precision.
O.K. Tested it out. 50% sensitivity ingame give a 1:1 pixel ratio.
This is tested with: - basic logitech M100 mouse (send my razer copperhead back because of clicking malfunctioning). - no mouse drivers installed. - markc mousefix for windows 7. - mouse speed in windows @ 6/11
Tested and confirmed with the Mouse Movement recorder in the MarkC mousefix.rar package
just tested MX Revolution (i know, not a good gaming mouse)
setting the windows mouse settings or setpoint on something other than 6/11 doesn't give me red or green (only when moving really fast or going off screen), even though I'm clearly moving 4-6 pixels at a time. I guess it doesn't work that way.
Setting SC2 on something far from 50% does give me red colors. (>55%).
What settings should I use in Razer drivers for 1:1 pixel accuracy? Changing the sensitivity seems to do the same thing as changing Windows mouse pointer speed, but the Windows mouse pointer speed doesn't change, and it doesn't show any change in advanced settings. Master windows control in advanced settings is the same thing as Windows mouse pointer speed.
On August 08 2010 01:34 BigT wrote: Question, if the higher you have your mouse sensitivity set in your control panel is worse (i.e. 11/11 bad, 6/11 good), then why wouldn't you just set the mouse sensitivity to 1/11 and only adjust your mouse's DPI???
1/11 and 11/11 are both worse than 6/11.
At 11/11, Windows 'adds' mouse inputs (skip pixels) to make your cursor move faster. At 1/11, Windows throws away mouse inputs every X mouse movements to make your cursor move slower. 6/11 is the only setting where the ratio is 1 to 1.
Increasing your DPI but decreasing your Windows sensitivity reduces your mouse accuracy, as does lowering DPI but increasing Windows sens (really bad idea). Keep the Windows setting at 6/11 and adjust DPI if you want it to be faster or slower.
Negative acceleration caused by high DPI shouldn't be an issue at all for SC2 since you're not throwing your mouse around anyways.
Also, mouse accel is bad (guess it doesn't matter much in RTS, but still...)
On August 18 2010 01:59 Yukidasu wrote: Just count yourself lucky you don't have to deal with the SC2's interaction with the horrendously broken (for games at least) mouse acceleration on Mac.
Agreed, Mac also seems to have a lag when you use a USB mouse (I've tried it with a mx518). Anyone know how to make your mouse crisp/no accel for Mac? I found a program called "Mouse Acceleration" that seems to take off mouse accel, but the mouse still seems very laggy in game. Also, the lift-off distance seems to be increased on Macs (that is - when I pick up my mouse, it still tracks the movement, where lifting the same height on my PC wouldn't).
On August 19 2010 04:38 Chronopolis wrote: O.o I use 100% in-game speed, 11/11 mouse sensitivity with acceleration, and I'm not having any issues with it.
The real question is this: if you put the windows and SC2 sens sliders at 6/11 and 50% respectively, turn off enhanced pointer precision and increase mouse DPI to get the same curser speed, would you be better off (after getting used to it for a week or so) ?
The answer is most likely yes.
It's kinda like people saying this or that mouse is the greatest, having only tried two different mice ever.
i've had on max for awhile now, few years, with the same MX510 mouse aswell, when I tried what you said I couldnt even bear the slowness in windows.. didnt even try it in game.. lol..
On August 19 2010 06:42 SwaY- wrote: i've had on max for awhile now, few years, with the same MX510 mouse aswell, when I tried what you said I couldnt even bear the slowness in windows.. didnt even try it in game.. lol..
Your mouse is insufficient for SC2 then, you should be able to crank up the DPI until u get a satisfying speed in-game. If you have to rely on setting the windows/SC2 slider above 6/11 or 50% and enhanced precision on, then it's time to get a new mouse.
On August 19 2010 03:46 jw232 wrote: What settings should I use in Razer drivers for 1:1 pixel accuracy? Changing the sensitivity seems to do the same thing as changing Windows mouse pointer speed, but the Windows mouse pointer speed doesn't change, and it doesn't show any change in advanced settings. Master windows control in advanced settings is the same thing as Windows mouse pointer speed.
according to that mouse movement recorder tool the ratio is always 1:1 .. also it doesn't create these stairway-like structures in pbrush when u mess with the sensitivity from my point of view
On August 18 2010 01:59 Yukidasu wrote: Just count yourself lucky you don't have to deal with the SC2's interaction with the horrendously broken (for games at least) mouse acceleration on Mac.
Agreed, Mac also seems to have a lag when you use a USB mouse (I've tried it with a mx518). Anyone know how to make your mouse crisp/no accel for Mac? I found a program called "Mouse Acceleration" that seems to take off mouse accel, but the mouse still seems very laggy in game. Also, the lift-off distance seems to be increased on Macs (that is - when I pick up my mouse, it still tracks the movement, where lifting the same height on my PC wouldn't).
I use a program called ControllerMate to change the acceleration on my mac. It has a graph that you can mess around with that changes the acceleration, it's really great.
On August 20 2010 00:41 papaz wrote: Say that you want to increase in game sensitivity, how could blizz make the cursor go faster without skipping pixels, that is what windows sens does?
They cant - they would have to increase the dpi of your mouse.
On August 18 2010 01:59 Yukidasu wrote: Just count yourself lucky you don't have to deal with the SC2's interaction with the horrendously broken (for games at least) mouse acceleration on Mac.
Agreed, Mac also seems to have a lag when you use a USB mouse (I've tried it with a mx518). Anyone know how to make your mouse crisp/no accel for Mac? I found a program called "Mouse Acceleration" that seems to take off mouse accel, but the mouse still seems very laggy in game. Also, the lift-off distance seems to be increased on Macs (that is - when I pick up my mouse, it still tracks the movement, where lifting the same height on my PC wouldn't).
I use USB overdrive. It's free for the trial (only difference is a 10 second countdown on boot-up) and it works perfectly.
The only catch is that when you turn acceleration all the way down, it also turns sensitivity all the way down. When you crank the speed up to an acceptable level for your everyday computer use, it somehow compounds with the sensitivity in SC2, making it insanely high. To fix it, I just had to put my SC2 in-game sensitivity to 0%. The result turns out to be a perfect, accelerationless sensitivity for me, but you might be kinda screwed if you prefer something less sensitive.
On August 20 2010 00:41 papaz wrote: Say that you want to increase in game sensitivity, how could blizz make the cursor go faster without skipping pixels, that is what windows sens does?
They cant - they would have to increase the dpi of your mouse.
But why does the OP then say that blizz should implement directinput or raw input when the real and only solution to in game sensitivity is getting better dpi mouse?
how does quake and other games go about this, that is increase or decrease mouse cursor speed without losing precision?
So could anyone recommend an inexpensive mouse with decent DPI for the hardware noobs among us who find 1:1 with their current mouse unbearably slow? I was going to get a new mouse anyway, so this is kinda just the deal sealer..
On August 20 2010 00:41 papaz wrote: Say that you want to increase in game sensitivity, how could blizz make the cursor go faster without skipping pixels, that is what windows sens does?
They cant - they would have to increase the dpi of your mouse.
But why does the OP then say that blizz should implement directinput or raw input when the real and only solution to in game sensitivity is getting better dpi mouse?
how does quake and other games go about this, that is increase or decrease mouse cursor speed without losing precision?
well - lets use an example
you have a 1000 dpi mouse -> this means your mouse is able to recognize a inch/1000th -> if you want to move faster then 1000 pixel per inch (lets say 2000) the mouse cannot handle it anymore technically -> your movement hast to be interpolated -> for every "dot/pixel" recognized by the mouse your cursor has to move 2 pixels -> therefor you "skip" pixels
This is a technical limitation and can't be circumvented directly. The only solution i can think of is mouse acceleration - at low movement speed you get true 1:1 and at faster speeds you skip pixels. But you will not be able to go faster then 1000dpi on true 1:1
edit: and the OP is talking about going around windows settings by directinput
I have a logitech G5 2000dpi mouse. after setting the windows slider at 6/11 (mouse acc off) and uninstalling all of my logitech drivers, my mouse is actually TOO sensitive at its default 800 dpi in windows and in starcraft. The mouse recorder program tells me my mouse movement is 1:1, but something seems wrong. I would of thought I would have had to bump the dpi up significantly from 800dpi when I adjusted the windows slide to 6/11...not go down.
so just to clarify, (I apologize for being redundant) according to the OP and the links in the thread, it's better to to have low dpi (<800 because 800 is too sensitive) with the windows slider at 6/11, than it is to drop down the windows slider and use the full 2000dpi or w/e of your mouse?
if that's the case, then what the hell is the point of all these mice with the crazy 3000, 4000, 5000 dpi??
On August 20 2010 00:41 papaz wrote: Say that you want to increase in game sensitivity, how could blizz make the cursor go faster without skipping pixels, that is what windows sens does?
They cant - they would have to increase the dpi of your mouse.
But why does the OP then say that blizz should implement directinput or raw input when the real and only solution to in game sensitivity is getting better dpi mouse?
how does quake and other games go about this, that is increase or decrease mouse cursor speed without losing precision?
well - lets use an example
you have a 1000 dpi mouse -> this means your mouse is able to recognize a inch/1000th -> if you want to move faster then 1000 pixel per inch (lets say 2000) the mouse cannot handle it anymore technically -> your movement hast to be interpolated -> for every "dot/pixel" recognized by the mouse your cursor has to move 2 pixels -> therefor you "skip" pixels
This is a technical limitation and can't be circumvented directly. The only solution i can think of is mouse acceleration - at low movement speed you get true 1:1 and at faster speeds you skip pixels. But you will not be able to go faster then 1000dpi on true 1:1
edit: and the OP is talking about going around windows settings by directinput
@ papaz/unAimed, Yeah I've come to realise that in an RTS where you just have a cursor, you can't really increase sensitivity without losing precision given the fact your DPI dictates how much you have to move your mouse to move from one side of the screen to the other, dependent on your resolution. In contrast to Quake and other FPS of course where you're actually turning about an axis (and generally use lower resolutions anyway). Sorry for the misunderstanding in the OP papaz.
This is a bit sad as I've always used 400 DPI Microsoft mice for their lack of mouse correction/angle-snapping and perfect sensors, but unless I want to play SC2 at 640x480, or 800x600, it's not really feasible. By the way, this is the reason progamers can get away with using a mini optical with 400 dpi — BW is limited to 640x480, so moving from one side of the screen to the other takes just over an inch. That said, the mini optical sensor is still absolute trash (I have two of them and they don't come anywhere near as good as 1.1/3.0).
Currently using my G1 which has pretty bad correction. Razer Abyssus looks like quite a good option as it's small, no tacky thumb buttons, has more than enough DPI (actually a bit of a fault), and no mouse correction.
edit: P.S. You can still get pixel-skipping in FPS, just to avoid any confusion, but it tends to be at much higher sensitivities even on 400 DPI mice that people don't generally use in my short tests.
hmm i got mouse on max at windows and 100% in sc2, but it still feels a bit tooslow.. it was fast enough in bw without going to max speedsettings in windows -_-; got no problem with skipping too many pixels or anything though
On August 20 2010 02:39 stafu wrote: @ papaz/unAimed, Yeah I've come to realise that in an RTS where you just have a cursor, you can't really increase sensitivity without losing precision given the fact your DPI dictates how much you have to move your mouse to move from one side of the screen to the other, dependent on your resolution. In contrast to Quake and other FPS of course where you're actually turning about an axis (and generally use lower resolutions anyway). Sorry for the misunderstanding in the OP papaz.
This is a bit sad as I've always used 400 DPI Microsoft mice for their lack of mouse correction/angle-snapping and perfect sensors, but unless I want to play SC2 at 640x480, or 800x600, it's not really feasible. By the way, this is the reason progamers can get away with using a mini optical with 400 dpi — BW is limited to 640x480, so moving from one side of the screen to the other takes just over an inch. That said, the mini optical sensor is still absolute trash (I have two of them and they don't come anywhere near as good as 1.1/3.0).
Currently using my G1 which has pretty bad correction. Razer Abyssus looks like quite a good option as it's small, no tacky thumb buttons, has more than enough DPI (actually a bit of a fault), and no mouse correction.
edit: P.S. You can still get pixel-skipping in FPS, just to avoid any confusion, but it tends to be at much higher sensitivities even on 400 DPI mice that people don't generally use in my short tests.
ay, abyssus is absolutely fantastic mouse, dpi and pooling is adjustable wo drivers so not sure whats your grief there - if you dont have Shiny and Great Many Buttons syndrome there is no better choice
On September 03 2010 19:50 escruting wrote: What's worst, max windows sens or max sc2 sens? i have max sc2 sens and 8/11 on windows at 1920x1080 res.
They are the same and both bad. If you have 100% in SC2, when you load SC2 it will set your Windows sens to 11/11. Best is to leave Windows at 6/11, SC2 at 50%, and use mouse DPI to higher your sensitivity (it's the only true way without losing 1:1 pixel precision). This is why 400 DPI mice will not cut it for SC2, but 800 should be enough.
Uhh...so I'm using a logitech mini optical on a 22" monitor...(meaning I don't have dpi settings or anything like that). I just noticed "enhance pointer precision" has been on and I've been playing sc2 with it on the entire time not knowing. I tried turning off and I can't stand it almost, mouse moves either way too fast or slow between around speed 7 and 8. I'm way too used to it being on.
Well of course just use whatever you're used to : ) This is just min-max optimising really, it's not COMPLETELY ESSENTIAL. Also as much as everyone bags mouse acceleration, it's fine if you are used to it — almost all top Quake 3 players use mouse accel for example. As long as it's consistent in how it works (as Windows is) then you can get used to it just like you would anything else.
On September 03 2010 19:50 escruting wrote: What's worst, max windows sens or max sc2 sens? i have max sc2 sens and 8/11 on windows at 1920x1080 res.
They are the same and both bad. If you have 100% in SC2, when you load SC2 it will set your Windows sens to 11/11. Best is to leave Windows at 6/11, SC2 at 50%, and use mouse DPI to higher your sensitivity (it's the only true way without losing 1:1 pixel precision). This is why 400 DPI mice will not cut it for SC2, but 800 should be enough.
I have the mouse at max DPI (2000dpi), its a sidewinder x3.
On September 03 2010 20:44 stafu wrote: 2000 DPI means you only have to move 1.3 cm to go from one side of your screen to the other. That should be far more than enough! :O
(In fact I'd probably recommend against such a huge sensitivity for the health and ongoing functioning of your wrists)
Yeah, but i dont know if its good in terms of pointer precision...I play okay but...
So I use a logitech mx518 with a dpi of 1600 and I have the windows settings at 11/11. At a multiplier of 3.5, I would need a mouse with about 5600ish dpi to have approximatively the same speed at 6/11 (1:1 ratio) right? Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?
Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
On September 03 2010 21:22 ejac wrote: So I use a logitech mx518 with a dpi of 1600 and I have the windows settings at 11/11. At a multiplier of 3.5, I would need a mouse with about 5600ish dpi to have approximatively the same speed at 6/11 (1:1 ratio) right? Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?
What resolution do you play in? Why on earth do you need more than 1600 dpi? That seems like a completely unplayable sensitivity if your mouse is actually at 1600 dpi... But yes, I guess you'd need 5600ish. However, please consider the difference between 1600 dpi and the sensitivity you use now in terms of how far you have to move the mouse. If you play SC2 1680x1050 you only have to move about an inch to traverse the entire screen left to right. Using much higher than that will probably give you RSI/carpal tunnel.
It seems like a lot of people watch progamer FPvods and completely misunderstand that their fast mouse movement is due to fast hands, not a ridiculous sensitivity. e.g.
He actually moves the mouse quite a lot. I'd say NaDa uses correct settings with mini optical -- 6/11 Windows @ 400 dpi, so ~ slightly more than an inch for a total left->right (because BW is locked to 640x480).
On September 03 2010 21:31 relay wrote: Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
Depends on what resolution you use, but yeah unfortunately... If you don't mind the pixel skipping, just play with whatever. It's frustrating as 3.0 and 1.1 are my favourite mice which I've used since ~2001 or so, and it's just not high enough dpi for SC2. FPS games are still fine, of course, but for RTS with resolution > 800x600 it's a bit too slow without raping the precision.
On September 03 2010 21:22 ejac wrote: So I use a logitech mx518 with a dpi of 1600 and I have the windows settings at 11/11. At a multiplier of 3.5, I would need a mouse with about 5600ish dpi to have approximatively the same speed at 6/11 (1:1 ratio) right? Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?
What resolution do you play in? Why on earth do you need more than 1600 dpi? That seems like a completely unplayable sensitivity if your mouse is actually at 1600 dpi... But yes, I guess you'd need 5600ish. However, please consider the difference between 1600 dpi and the sensitivity you use now in terms of how far you have to move the mouse. If you play SC2 1680x1050 you only have to move about an inch to traverse the entire screen left to right. Using much higher than that will probably give you RSI/carpal tunnel.
It seems like a lot of people watch progamer FPvods and completely misunderstand that their fast mouse movement is due to fast hands, not a ridiculous sensitivity. e.g.
He actually moves the mouse quite a lot. I'd say NaDa uses correct settings with mini optical -- 6/11 Windows @ 400 dpi, so ~ slightly more than an inch for a total left->right (because BW is locked to 640x480).
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is like Vladimir Horowitz (one of the best if not the best concert pianist of all time) of the sc keyboard. god damn his left hand is pressing those buttons fast.
On September 03 2010 21:31 relay wrote: Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
Depends on what resolution you use, but yeah unfortunately... If you don't mind the pixel skipping, just play with whatever. It's frustrating as 3.0 and 1.1 are my favourite mice which I've used since ~2001 or so, and it's just not high enough dpi for SC2. FPS games are still fine, of course, but for RTS with resolution > 800x600 it's a bit too slow without raping the precision.
I play with 1680x1050 on a 22" LCD. I guess I have to dig out my old Deathadder, and set it to 900 DPI.
On September 03 2010 21:22 ejac wrote: So I use a logitech mx518 with a dpi of 1600 and I have the windows settings at 11/11. At a multiplier of 3.5, I would need a mouse with about 5600ish dpi to have approximatively the same speed at 6/11 (1:1 ratio) right? Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?
What resolution do you play in? Why on earth do you need more than 1600 dpi? That seems like a completely unplayable sensitivity if your mouse is actually at 1600 dpi... But yes, I guess you'd need 5600ish. However, please consider the difference between 1600 dpi and the sensitivity you use now in terms of how far you have to move the mouse. If you play SC2 1680x1050 you only have to move about an inch to traverse the entire screen left to right. Using much higher than that will probably give you RSI/carpal tunnel.
lol well, my resolution is 1920x1080, and yes, I don't know exactly how far I have to move my mouse to get it to go to one side of the screen of the other, but it's pretty damn small. Most people who use my comp can't handle it, it's always fun watching them try before I tell them to press the +/- buttons on my mouse. I had my mouse set to this sensitivity well before I started playing sc2.
btw, I'm not trying to emulate any pros with my mouse speed, it's simply that I'm use to it, and its the way I like it. I've had it this way for years. Whenever I go to my college's computer lab, it always annoys me how even if I set the mouse to max sensitivity, they still aren't nearly as sensitive.
When I play broodwar since the resolution was set lower I just had chaos launcher do a different mouse speed.
On September 03 2010 21:31 relay wrote: Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
Depends on what resolution you use, but yeah unfortunately... If you don't mind the pixel skipping, just play with whatever. It's frustrating as 3.0 and 1.1 are my favourite mice which I've used since ~2001 or so, and it's just not high enough dpi for SC2. FPS games are still fine, of course, but for RTS with resolution > 800x600 it's a bit too slow without raping the precision.
Did you found a suitable mouse so far for SC2? I really really love my old IM 1.1, but 400 DPI just aren't enough. I couldn't get used to my Razer Salmosa, because the shape of it sucks.
On September 03 2010 21:31 relay wrote: Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
Depends on what resolution you use, but yeah unfortunately... If you don't mind the pixel skipping, just play with whatever. It's frustrating as 3.0 and 1.1 are my favourite mice which I've used since ~2001 or so, and it's just not high enough dpi for SC2. FPS games are still fine, of course, but for RTS with resolution > 800x600 it's a bit too slow without raping the precision.
Did you found a suitable mouse so far for SC2? I really really love my old IM 1.1, but 400 DPI just aren't enough. I couldn't get used to my Razer Salmosa, because the shape of it sucks.
I've never tried Salmosa, but I personally like the shape of Deathadder better than IME 3.0. And I can play with 900 DPI. :o)
On September 03 2010 21:31 relay wrote: Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
Depends on what resolution you use, but yeah unfortunately... If you don't mind the pixel skipping, just play with whatever. It's frustrating as 3.0 and 1.1 are my favourite mice which I've used since ~2001 or so, and it's just not high enough dpi for SC2. FPS games are still fine, of course, but for RTS with resolution > 800x600 it's a bit too slow without raping the precision.
Did you found a suitable mouse so far for SC2? I really really love my old IM 1.1, but 400 DPI just aren't enough. I couldn't get used to my Razer Salmosa, because the shape of it sucks.
Not yet : ( The Abyssus might be a good choice, but I've heard the sensor has issues with a lot of mouse pads like QcK. Maybe the Zowie EC2 (I think it's meant to be ~ the same shape/size as a 1.1, the EC1 is similar to 3.0). They look decent, but they do have mouse prediction/correction if that bothers you (1.1 does not).
On September 05 2010 00:52 nihoh wrote: I keep it at 400 DPI 6/11 no acceleration 50% in game.. It's a tad bit slow but I odn't mind cos I come from CS. IE3.0 btw.
On September 03 2010 21:31 relay wrote: Does this mean that the Intellimouse mice are not suitable for SC2? Because I got the MSIME 3.0, and setting it to 6/11 in Windows and 50% in SC2 is way too slow, and there is not way to change the DPI, AFAIK.
Depends on what resolution you use, but yeah unfortunately... If you don't mind the pixel skipping, just play with whatever. It's frustrating as 3.0 and 1.1 are my favourite mice which I've used since ~2001 or so, and it's just not high enough dpi for SC2. FPS games are still fine, of course, but for RTS with resolution > 800x600 it's a bit too slow without raping the precision.
Did you found a suitable mouse so far for SC2? I really really love my old IM 1.1, but 400 DPI just aren't enough. I couldn't get used to my Razer Salmosa, because the shape of it sucks.
Not yet : ( The Abyssus might be a good choice, but I've heard the sensor has issues with a lot of mouse pads like QcK. Maybe the Zowie EC2 (I think it's meant to be ~ the same shape/size as a 1.1, the EC1 is similar to 3.0). They look decent, but they do have mouse prediction/correction if that bothers you (1.1 does not).
Jeah the Zowie EC2 might be a good option. I read some asian reviews about it like:
I figured with Deathadder 900 DPI is a bit too low for me, but 1800 is too high, so I just changed the sensitivity with the drivers. It looks just as smooth when I tested it in Paint, but I want to hear with some of the more savvy people here before I do something stupid.
Notice there's one sensitivity slider for Windows, and one for Razer Deathadder. I changed the latter. I had planned to uninstall the drivers once I was satisfied with the results, but I guess that might reset the aforementioned setting.
I had my in-game sensitivity set to 55% and, thankfully, my windows setting is still on 6. Good thing too, because I play with my G5 on max dpi (2000), so I'd have to just plain adjust to lower sensitivity if the windows setting was too high.
On September 14 2010 03:09 SyyRaaaN wrote: Mouse sensitivity in windows: 9/11 Mouse sensitivity in Starcraf2: 100% Mose: intellimouse explorer 3.0. Problems: None.
On September 07 2010 05:04 relay wrote: I figured with Deathadder 900 DPI is a bit too low for me, but 1800 is too high, so I just changed the sensitivity with the drivers. It looks just as smooth when I tested it in Paint, but I want to hear with some of the more savvy people here before I do something stupid.
Notice there's one sensitivity slider for Windows, and one for Razer Deathadder. I changed the latter. I had planned to uninstall the drivers once I was satisfied with the results, but I guess that might reset the aforementioned setting.
Thoughts?
well, why didn't you leave the windows one alone and used the deathadder DPI thing to the left?
anyhoo i play at 3200 DPI with 3 windows sens. i've not noticed any changes in accuracy, actually it has gotten better as i play awp on cs 1.6 most of the times and rely on my sensor working in a perfect ratio to my hand and not shift and stuff.
however it most likely has something to do with different sensors, some sensor may get problems with changing windows sens, i'm using mionix saiph 3200 and tried many paint tests and other things to make sure i'm not screwing myself up here but i've honestly not gotten anything else but more accuracy due to the higher DPI.
Some one should really report this problem to Blizzard. The 6/11 windows setting with the 50% in game setting makes 400dpi mice (microsoft optical, the intellimice, logitech optical mini) too slow.
On September 14 2010 07:57 TheBase wrote: Some one should really report this problem to Blizzard. The 6/11 windows setting with the 50% in game setting makes 400dpi mice (microsoft optical, the intellimice, logitech optical mini) too slow.
If you're using razor's software/drivers, what should the sensitivity be set at if you windows is set at 6 and starcraft is at 50% to achieve the 1 to 1 pixel detection?
On September 14 2010 07:57 TheBase wrote: Some one should really report this problem to Blizzard. The 6/11 windows setting with the 50% in game setting makes 400dpi mice (microsoft optical, the intellimice, logitech optical mini) too slow.
For sc2 other mouse is necessary
But that shouldn't be the case. You should be able to increase your in-game speed without having to skip pixels.
Starcraft 2 doesn't require 1:1 pixel precision like in FPS games, you won't missclick a hatcherie or a drone because you have 1:1.5, I use 7/11 knowing this because it's easier to play with the most comfortable sensitivity rather than having pixel precision but missing clicks because you either have too much or little sensitivity.
On September 14 2010 03:09 SyyRaaaN wrote: Mouse sensitivity in windows: 9/11 Mouse sensitivity in Starcraf2: 100% Mose: intellimouse explorer 3.0. Problems: None.
please do the mspaint test on the front page and take a picture and put it up here.
On September 14 2010 03:09 SyyRaaaN wrote: Mouse sensitivity in windows: 9/11 Mouse sensitivity in Starcraf2: 100% Mose: intellimouse explorer 3.0. Problems: None.
please do the mspaint test on the front page and take a picture and put it up here.
What correlation does that have to SC2 at all? The units are not 1 pixel wide, or even 4 pixels wide.
Obviously pixel accuracy is important for FPS since sometimes your target IS a few pixels wide, but when is such precision ever absolutely required for optimal play in SC2?
On September 14 2010 03:09 SyyRaaaN wrote: Mouse sensitivity in windows: 9/11 Mouse sensitivity in Starcraf2: 100% Mose: intellimouse explorer 3.0. Problems: None.
please do the mspaint test on the front page and take a picture and put it up here.
What correlation does that have to SC2 at all? The units are not 1 pixel wide, or even 4 pixels wide.
Obviously pixel accuracy is important for FPS since sometimes your target IS a few pixels wide, but when is such precision ever absolutely required for optimal play in SC2?
I'm gonna go ahead and say it's important because you click on stuff. There are some pretty small units in the game. Pretty sure feedbacking a ghost requires quite a bit of precision.
On September 14 2010 03:09 SyyRaaaN wrote: Mouse sensitivity in windows: 9/11 Mouse sensitivity in Starcraf2: 100% Mose: intellimouse explorer 3.0. Problems: None.
please do the mspaint test on the front page and take a picture and put it up here.
What correlation does that have to SC2 at all? The units are not 1 pixel wide, or even 4 pixels wide.
Obviously pixel accuracy is important for FPS since sometimes your target IS a few pixels wide, but when is such precision ever absolutely required for optimal play in SC2?
if there's the same inaccuracy as the test on page 1 (or close to) then it could stop you from microing as well as you could have
though it's mainly a FPS thing but having major inaccuracy while playing any game can ruin a lot of things
I was wondering for your in-game mouse setting there is a option to reduce mouse lag and make it more responsive...do you guys have this option on(checked) or off(unchecked)?
so just to get this straight, if I get a mouse with 3500 DPI as opposed to my current one with 500 DPI, I can decrease my windows sensitivity from 11/11 to 6/11 and have the same "speed" but greater "precision"?
(sorry i am not tech-savy at all, didn't even know what DPI was before this thread)
I tried the Steermouse method and it seems ok to me after a day or two of use. Install Steermouse, set accel to 0, and then up your mouse DPI to something reasonable (I use a MX518 I think).
On September 15 2010 07:54 GGTeMpLaR wrote: so just to get this straight, if I get a mouse with 3500 DPI as opposed to my current one with 500 DPI, I can decrease my windows sensitivity from 11/11 to 6/11 and have the same "speed" but greater "precision"?
(sorry i am not tech-savy at all, didn't even know what DPI was before this thread)
Exactly, I ended up buying a mouse with 5000 DPI (only needed about 3500 like you were suggesting) and the difference is def noticeable and this is coming from a long time PC gamer.
Set your Windows sensitivity to default and up the DPI on your mouse to get the smooth precision.
I actually noticed this issue before he made this thread but didnt know the cause or really look into it, so, thanks alot for this thread.
Man... I really wish I had a mouse with a dpi higher than 400 (using the intellimouse 3.0). I'm forced to use enhance pointer precision because the in-game sensitivity settings is stupid and the default settings without enhance pointer precision is too slow. I'm going to report this to Blizzard right now. What should I write up so that they themselves can actually test this?
You see that "enhance precision" checkbox? Check that, and now larger movements will be scaled up, so one large movement will go well across the screen while small movements will still be precise. Pointer acceleration. Neat stuff.
How can people still suggest "Enhance cursor precision", please stop that. Seriously!
If you are playing with it and you are fine with it, great, keep it that way. But please dont suggest that other should use it. Its pretty common that good players dont use this setting, and its not because they are trying to be cool or anything like that. Its just because it IS BAD.
The thing is. If you want to move a certain distance on the screen to press something, you want to move the same distance with your hand no matter how fast you do it. (this is because when you improve you dont want to "relearn" the distance you have to move). Its pretty much impossible to apply "reflexplay" with mouse acceleration on. Because you have to observe where the cursor is and move it more / less until it is in the right position. (Dont know if reflexplay is any word for it but I guess all former FPS players know what im talking about).
But without it your muscles can learn that ok I need to move that faar, go ahead and do it then click. You will not know until after if you missclicked or not. But thats pretty much how it is in a nutshell. Your brain needs time to observe, analyze and send signals to your hand. And you want to speed up this process by making is as simple as possible. And this is done by keeping the same ratio no matter how fast you move your mouse.
This way you can increase your gaming speed without you having to adapt and change the distance you move the mouse. It will greatly help you becoming faster at clicking stuffs, and the right stuffs.
But sure, if you want to learn at a slower pace, go ahead and check that box!
Wow thanks for this, I'm using an Intellimouse which I think is 400 dpi. I've been playing on like 8/11 or 9/11 and like 87% in game and I've always suspected that something wasn't right. I always had trouble clicking exactly where I wanted. I figured I was just bad, but I guess that was only half of it. So I need a mouse with higher dpi so that I can put windows on 6/11 and in game at 50%? I'm a mouse newb but I'm guessing if the dpi is higher there is a third setting for sensitivity which you can adjust?
On October 11 2010 02:22 Neo.NEt wrote: Wow thanks for this, I'm using an Intellimouse which I think is 400 dpi. I've been playing on like 8/11 or 9/11 and like 87% in game and I've always suspected that something wasn't right. I always had trouble clicking exactly where I wanted. I figured I was just bad, but I guess that was only half of it. So I need a mouse with higher dpi so that I can put windows on 6/11 and in game at 50%? I'm a mouse newb but I'm guessing if the dpi is higher there is a third setting for sensitivity which you can adjust?
Yep, most mice have a hardware or software switch for changing DPI between 400 and the mouse maximum, so you might find 800 or 1600 adequate. You can also use a higher dpi and lower the sensitivity via Windows/SC2 (one and the same) as lowering sensitivity does not cause the same loss in precision as raising.
On September 16 2010 08:37 TheBase wrote: Man... I really wish I had a mouse with a dpi higher than 400 (using the intellimouse 3.0). I'm forced to use enhance pointer precision because the in-game sensitivity settings is stupid and the default settings without enhance pointer precision is too slow. I'm going to report this to Blizzard right now. What should I write up so that they themselves can actually test this?
WHAT? I use that mouse and it have a perfect sensitivity. I use a XXL mouse pad so that might help a lot.
i use the razer naga with razer's drivers... i'm going to mess with my settings tonight when i get home as i've had precision issues so i think this is my main cause i know i've messed with the SC2's sensitivity settings i never knew all this helpful info in here... anyone know what the DEFUALT sensitivity is on the razer drivers... i just want to know what i need to set my mouse at to get the 1:1 ratio... then i'll start tweaking my DPI to adjust to the sensitivity that i want... so just 6/11 in windows and 50% in game in sc2 and what about in the razer controll panel? anyone?
i use to argue as many people here have but the loss in accuracy for the convience of speed isn't worth it. And yes I use to be 100% & 11/11, I instantly have better finesse and such.
I find that what works best for all games and situations is to purchase mice with as high dpi as possible, I personally use a 5600. Then play with lower sensitivity in game and in windows. This turns off the software based acceleration and sticks just to your good hardware for precision. Works consistently in game or out, and across the board.
Would be great to see some notable names post in this thread. Seems like every other post disagrees with the last and just a few posts by some top top players showing what hardware/settings they use would be greatly helpful. I know it's easy to say "just play with what's comfortable" but that certainly isn't working for me. My control feels weak and my mouse just isn't going where I want it to.
Just tested precision with a roccat kone+ at 6000dpi in photoshop. (zoomed in 200%) The best result I got with windows sens dropped down to 2! O.o Literally 1-1 pixel drawing with ease. The mouse driver has its own sens options, but adjusting them just screws up everything... Now I have a noticabely better precision at a pretty low ingame and windows sens setting. So maybe a better sensor in a mouse is the best solution.
What useful information! Great find. I found I had my settings all messed up and didn't even realize it. Sensitivity through my Razer driver was too low, and windows and SC2 were too high. It meant I was skipping pixels big time. I have some info that may be useful for Razer mouse users.
My mouse: Diamondback 3G, 1800 dpi
Optimal windows performance: 6/11 Windows, set Razer software to whatever (I have mine at 5.0 in Windows)
SC2: Reduce sensitivity to 50%, use Razer driver to increase sensitivity (I set mine at 7.5 or so for SC2). If you increase sens. in SC2, you will start to skip pixels. The diamondback 3G has on-the-fly sens. adjustment, which works for me in SC2, although I can't see the onscreen indicator.
An easy way to test if you're skipping is to place your cursor near the edge of a letter or something with a defined edge. If you are skipping, miniscule mouse movements will fail to read momentarily, and will then cause your cursor to jump several pixels, meaning there are some pixels you can't hit! If you aren't skipping, you will be able to see that small mouse movements move your cursor one pixel at a time. This is pretty easy to notice, and you don't need to alt-tab into paint.
So to recap I've got my mouse at:
Microsoft 6/11 Razer 7.5 SC2 50%
and I'm not skipping. Razer sensitivity adjustment won't cause skipping even at max (10.0) so it's safe to use!
I thought this might be the best place to ask save creating a whole new thread. Does the sensitivity option in the Razer drivers suffer from this issue also? The problem I have is that I'd like to play with the maximum supported DPI of my mouse (which is like 3000), but the sensitivity at that DPI with windows settings @ 6/10 is way too high. Since the SC2 sensitivity option is strangely just a mirror of the Windows sensitivity settings, I don't see any way of reducing the sensitivity WITHOUT reducing the DPI and without messing with the 1:1 ratio unless the sensitivity option from within the Razer software somehow circumvents this issue.
Edit: Wow, I just read the post above me. Probably should have done that before posting. Thanks. Can anybody confirm this?
On October 19 2010 01:23 Lumb wrote: I thought this might be the best place to ask save creating a whole new thread. Does the sensitivity option in the Razer drivers suffer from this issue also? The problem I have is that I'd like to play with the maximum supported DPI of my mouse (which is like 3000), but the sensitivity at that DPI with windows settings @ 6/10 is way too high. Since the SC2 sensitivity option is strangely just a mirror of the Windows sensitivity settings, I don't see any way of reducing the sensitivity WITHOUT reducing the DPI and without messing with the 1:1 ratio unless the sensitivity option from within the Razer software somehow circumvents this issue.
It's technically and physically impossible to have a higher sensitivity than the cpi your mouse is set to without losing precision, as raising sensitivity that way is done via software in the form of pixel skipping. Lowering your sensitivity using software (i.e. SC2 or Windows sensitivity) does not cause pixel skipping, as it just ignores some input.
So, if one of the intermediate DPI/CPI settings is too slow, use the maximum and lower your sensitivity in game or in Windows. Some argue that this has downsides too but realistically it's not bad, and it's no where near the same effect as RAISING sensitivity via software.
edit: I don't know how Razer sensitivity works, but it's possible that it modifies cpi/dpi or that 10.0 (max) is 1:1 which would mean lower values don't cause pixel skipping.
Wow thanks for bumping this, I think i have skewed mine up big time so I am excited to get home and adjust the settings to see if I can improve performance. Thanks again!!
On October 19 2010 01:34 mOnion wrote: how do I change my mouse DPI???
Depends on if your mouse has adjustable DPI. If it does, it'll either be a hardware switch on the mouse itself or done via mouse drivers. What mouse do you have?
I'm still messing with the DPI settings on my G9x. I setup a SC2 profile with 3 very close DPI settings (800, 900, 1000, 1100) and find the 1000 range isn't bad at my resolution, but I, like the OP, can't for the life of me figure out why they chose not to use DirectInput.
I tried 6/11 and 50% in starcraft and I'm not sure if it's something wrong with my computer or mouse but I would be clicking things but it wouldn't actually click. It was so bad that I couldn't do simple stuff like box and move units or spawn larva. I raised windows sensitivity and put starcraft back at 61% and it seems fine again. I hate using this vx nano too I think because of the wireless and interference or something it doesn't register my left mouse clicks sometimes but that's wasn't what was causing the weird control issue. I have a logitech mini optical hopefully coming this week.
On October 19 2010 01:34 mOnion wrote: how do I change my mouse DPI???
Depends on if your mouse has adjustable DPI. If it does, it'll either be a hardware switch on the mouse itself or done via mouse drivers. What mouse do you have?
Deathadder 1800 dpi, I tried checking the drivers but I didn't see anywhere to change it X_x
edit: just googled and apparently you can't with the stock drivers, is there another way?
It's funny and a bit surprising how far behind RTS (think StarCraft) gamers are compared to FPS (think Quake) gamers in terms of knowledge of their environment (mouse, sensitivity, dpi, refresh rate, etc), but all this means is that these things matter far less in RTS games. Still, it's good to take advantage of any little thing you can.
On October 20 2010 05:19 Incanus wrote: It's funny and a bit surprising how far behind RTS (think StarCraft) gamers are compared to FPS (think Quake) gamers in terms of knowledge of their environment (mouse, sensitivity, dpi, refresh rate, etc), but all this means is that these things matter far less in RTS games. Still, it's good to take advantage of any little thing you can.
On October 19 2010 01:34 mOnion wrote: how do I change my mouse DPI???
Depends on if your mouse has adjustable DPI. If it does, it'll either be a hardware switch on the mouse itself or done via mouse drivers. What mouse do you have?
Deathadder 1800 dpi, I tried checking the drivers but I didn't see anywhere to change it X_x
edit: just googled and apparently you can't with the stock drivers, is there another way?
Why do you want to change your dpi? Instead of adjusting dpi you could adjust sensitivity using Razer drivers, which I think your mose has on-the-fly adjustment for. If you're like me 1800 is probably the sweet spot. Lower and you'll have to pixel skip to get the sensitivity you need, and higher is only necessary if you're already at 50% SC, 6/11 Windows, and 100% sensitivity on Razer drivers.
On October 19 2010 01:34 mOnion wrote: how do I change my mouse DPI???
Depends on if your mouse has adjustable DPI. If it does, it'll either be a hardware switch on the mouse itself or done via mouse drivers. What mouse do you have?
Deathadder 1800 dpi, I tried checking the drivers but I didn't see anywhere to change it X_x
edit: just googled and apparently you can't with the stock drivers, is there another way?
I also have the Deathadder with Razer drivers ( downloaded at www.razersupport.com ), and as you can see with the screenshot I provided, you can very easily switch dpi.
On October 20 2010 05:19 Incanus wrote: It's funny and a bit surprising how far behind RTS (think StarCraft) gamers are compared to FPS (think Quake) gamers in terms of knowledge of their environment (mouse, sensitivity, dpi, refresh rate, etc), but all this means is that these things matter far less in RTS games. Still, it's good to take advantage of any little thing you can.
Why is that at all surprising?
It's a bit surprising to me personally, because of how big the average difference in knowledge is, how serious the competition is in SC, and how long these things have had to develop. If you care enough to buy a gaming mouse, then I would assume it's a short step to adjusting some basic settings.
On October 19 2010 01:34 mOnion wrote: how do I change my mouse DPI???
Depends on if your mouse has adjustable DPI. If it does, it'll either be a hardware switch on the mouse itself or done via mouse drivers. What mouse do you have?
Deathadder 1800 dpi, I tried checking the drivers but I didn't see anywhere to change it X_x
edit: just googled and apparently you can't with the stock drivers, is there another way?
I also have the Deathadder with Razer drivers ( downloaded at www.razersupport.com ), and as you can see with the screenshot I provided, you can very easily switch dpi.
Does this stuff make any difference for a mid diamond player? I don't even know what I use...my pointer speed is right in the middle, I use a presumably crappy wireless mouse, and yeah.
Would upgrading get me better results at all? 1600 diamond.
This is a cool thread full of information I had no idea about, but, I don't think that it matters if you click a millimeter (or less) off of where you were aiming for because your mouse skipped ONE freakin' pixel. If that ever costs you a game, then you didn't deserve to win anyways.
P.S. I'm at work and just cleaned the dust balls out of my mouse. haha
On October 28 2010 05:30 dave333 wrote: Does this stuff make any difference for a mid diamond player? I don't even know what I use...my pointer speed is right in the middle, I use a presumably crappy wireless mouse, and yeah.
Would upgrading get me better results at all? 1600 diamond.
If you don't feel your mouse is holding you back somehow, it's not gonna make any difference...
Oh man, this thread was absurdly useful for me! I had no idea that the Windows sensativity played that big a role. My crap was set at 10/11 for some reason, notched it down to 7 and it feels much better... No more back and forth trying to click on small things. Next step- finding a mouse that actually fits my hand. /wrists
^my settings is deathadder (1800dpi version) windows slider on 6/11 use 1800 dpi and middle in sc2 50% and i use Markc mousefix to eliminate to left overs from mouse acceleration and killed all mouse thresholds in regedit con mouse options because thats old accel for me and windows 7 dont use it anymore
for excatly 1-1 pixel precise if you have 6/11 windows slider otherwise there is in the same rar file a fix builder to get 1 to 1 pixel precise for every windows slider GL and see you un the battleground
forgive me if im mistaken but isnt 51% in sc2 the exact match for windows default 6? I remember a very extensive thread on this a while back here lemme link it and il edit this post.
I've been reading on the topic of mouse speed settings a little and I see there are people using 3200 dpi mouses, meaning with a full hd screen it would take a little more than half an inch only to cross the entire screen.. Isn't it terrible to play like this?
On January 26 2011 00:43 Lythox wrote: I've been reading on the topic of mouse speed settings a little and I see there are people using 3200 dpi mouses, meaning with a full hd screen it would take a little more than half an inch only to cross the entire screen.. Isn't it terrible to play like this?
thats too high for me persnally but if you used to it then its perfecly fine. If it were an fps itd be bad but if your moused + settings allow you to do that without a loss of precision then its all good.
On October 14 2010 13:19 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: + Show Spoiler +
What useful information! Great find. I found I had my settings all messed up and didn't even realize it. Sensitivity through my Razer driver was too low, and windows and SC2 were too high. It meant I was skipping pixels big time. I have some info that may be useful for Razer mouse users.
My mouse: Diamondback 3G, 1800 dpi
Optimal windows performance: 6/11 Windows, set Razer software to whatever (I have mine at 5.0 in Windows)
SC2: Reduce sensitivity to 50%, use Razer driver to increase sensitivity (I set mine at 7.5 or so for SC2). If you increase sens. in SC2, you will start to skip pixels. The diamondback 3G has on-the-fly sens. adjustment, which works for me in SC2, although I can't see the onscreen indicator.
An easy way to test if you're skipping is to place your cursor near the edge of a letter or something with a defined edge. If you are skipping, miniscule mouse movements will fail to read momentarily, and will then cause your cursor to jump several pixels, meaning there are some pixels you can't hit! If you aren't skipping, you will be able to see that small mouse movements move your cursor one pixel at a time. This is pretty easy to notice, and you don't need to alt-tab into paint.
So to recap I've got my mouse at:
Microsoft 6/11 Razer 7.5 SC2 50%
and I'm not skipping. Razer sensitivity adjustment won't cause skipping even at max (10.0) so it's safe to use!
my setting is: Microsoft 6/11 Razer Deatadder 10/10 with 900DPI + 500Pollirate SC2 54%
On April 17 2011 20:46 Krasso wrote: wait, so having 6/11 with highest DPI on my mouse is better than (my previous) 11/11 with the lowest DPI?
Sorry if this bump annoys anyone, but i feel like my question is quite relevant.
Yes, it's much better. 11/11 with low DPI causes a lot of pixel skipping. Try drawing some smooth shapes in paint on each setting and you'll visually see the difference. In a nutshell, the smallest movement the mouse recognises on a hardware level (DPI) will move a few pixels instead of 1.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but there is a setting in the menus of sc2 that by pass's the windows mouse settings.
Reduce mouse lag - oddly found in the graphics interface not the controls one.
i took this post from an old thread.
On December 08 2010 06:49 fdsdfg wrote: 'Reduce mouse delay' will read the hardware input of the mouse rather than the Windows API.
Since it cannot disable window's reading of the hardware input (only lock the pointer), this means the data is being read twice - by windows and by sc2.
Now, instead of SC2 asking windows 'what's my x-y coordinates?' it has to have a hook into the mouse driver to read the raw input, interpret that into relative movements, and finally into x-y coordinates.
Pro - not waiting on Windows API / polling rate Con - extra overhead
I seen this thread and have noticed that many people of asked the same thing im about to ask, but with no answer. So if anyone has an idea of what to do i'd really appreciate some help
I have a regular Logitech mouse i got at target (Logitech m505 laser mouse) I JUST set my windows settings to 6/11 and my in-game to 50% after seeing this thread. Only problem now is my mouse is extremely slow. Ive read that to counter this effect you must increase your DPI. Well the thing is i have Setpoint installed and I cant figure out where/how to adjust my mouses DPI. Is my logitech not capable of that? Or do i just adjust my pointer speed and/or horizantal scrolling speed in SetPoint instead?
sorry to bump this thread I cant find the answer anywhere XD
I use 1800 DPI on 1600x900 screen resolution. If I was to use 1920x1080 how much difference would the sensitivity feel? Would I have to increase the DPI? Also, is there a program that gives you the right ratio the switch it to feel the same sensitivity? Thanks!
On October 03 2011 23:20 HOTcarl wrote: I seen this thread and have noticed that many people of asked the same thing im about to ask, but with no answer. So if anyone has an idea of what to do i'd really appreciate some help
I have a regular Logitech mouse i got at target (Logitech m505 laser mouse) I JUST set my windows settings to 6/11 and my in-game to 50% after seeing this thread. Only problem now is my mouse is extremely slow. Ive read that to counter this effect you must increase your DPI. Well the thing is i have Setpoint installed and I cant figure out where/how to adjust my mouses DPI. Is my logitech not capable of that? Or do i just adjust my pointer speed and/or horizantal scrolling speed in SetPoint instead?
sorry to bump this thread I cant find the answer anywhere XD
I only did some research but no where did I read that your mouse has the option to change DPI, that feature usually comes with "gaming" mice, correct me if I'm wrong though. It's been a while since I've used a logitech mouse but, you should be able to just increase mouse sensitivity in setpoint, just make sure it doesnt change windows and leave sc2 at default.
On October 03 2011 23:24 Beardedclam wrote: I use 1800 DPI on 1600x900 screen resolution. If I was to use 1920x1080 how much difference would the sensitivity feel? Would I have to increase the DPI? Also, is there a program that gives you the right ratio the switch it to feel the same sensitivity? Thanks!
If you don't increase the DPI it will feel slower, however you don't really "need" more DPI. It would help to know what mouse you use though, since you should be able to just max out your DPI and adjust your sensitivity in your drivers.
On October 03 2011 23:20 HOTcarl wrote: I seen this thread and have noticed that many people of asked the same thing im about to ask, but with no answer. So if anyone has an idea of what to do i'd really appreciate some help
I have a regular Logitech mouse i got at target (Logitech m505 laser mouse) I JUST set my windows settings to 6/11 and my in-game to 50% after seeing this thread. Only problem now is my mouse is extremely slow. Ive read that to counter this effect you must increase your DPI. Well the thing is i have Setpoint installed and I cant figure out where/how to adjust my mouses DPI. Is my logitech not capable of that? Or do i just adjust my pointer speed and/or horizantal scrolling speed in SetPoint instead?
sorry to bump this thread I cant find the answer anywhere XD
I only did some research but no where did I read that your mouse has the option to change DPI, that feature usually comes with "gaming" mice, correct me if I'm wrong though. It's been a while since I've used a logitech mouse but, you should be able to just increase mouse sensitivity in setpoint, just make sure it doesnt change windows and leave sc2 at default.
Thank you for the help! and my mouse is pretty basic so it must not have a DPI adjuster XD. And my only concern about changing my mouse speed in setpoint is that it will cause the same problem as changing my speed in Windows or sc2. Does it have the same effect?
On October 03 2011 23:20 HOTcarl wrote: I seen this thread and have noticed that many people of asked the same thing im about to ask, but with no answer. So if anyone has an idea of what to do i'd really appreciate some help
I have a regular Logitech mouse i got at target (Logitech m505 laser mouse) I JUST set my windows settings to 6/11 and my in-game to 50% after seeing this thread. Only problem now is my mouse is extremely slow. Ive read that to counter this effect you must increase your DPI. Well the thing is i have Setpoint installed and I cant figure out where/how to adjust my mouses DPI. Is my logitech not capable of that? Or do i just adjust my pointer speed and/or horizantal scrolling speed in SetPoint instead?
sorry to bump this thread I cant find the answer anywhere XD
I only did some research but no where did I read that your mouse has the option to change DPI, that feature usually comes with "gaming" mice, correct me if I'm wrong though. It's been a while since I've used a logitech mouse but, you should be able to just increase mouse sensitivity in setpoint, just make sure it doesnt change windows and leave sc2 at default.
On October 03 2011 23:24 Beardedclam wrote: I use 1800 DPI on 1600x900 screen resolution. If I was to use 1920x1080 how much difference would the sensitivity feel? Would I have to increase the DPI? Also, is there a program that gives you the right ratio the switch it to feel the same sensitivity? Thanks!
If you don't increase the DPI it will feel slower, however you don't really "need" more DPI. It would help to know what mouse you use though, since you should be able to just max out your DPI and adjust your sensitivity in your drivers.
Thanks for the help. I use Logitech mx518. I already have it maxed at 1800 DPI. Wouldn't adjusting the drivers mess up the 1:1 ratio?
there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
On October 04 2011 00:32 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
ohhh no wonder i see all these pros putting their sensitivity at like 22% xD
But if you do that, then that means your windows speed will have to be at like 11/11 to make up for the 22% right? Or is that not how it works.
Well the thing is, SC2 ignores your windows sensitivity all together. It doesn't care if it's 6/11 or 11/11 it goes by the stupid percentage shit. Generally speaking for other games the way it was optimal to have was to set your mouse sensitivity to default (like in setpoint), windows to 6/11, max out your DPI or choose one sufficient enough for your in game resolution and THEN change your sensitivity IN GAME to your liking.
Honestly I don't really know how to advise you guys to tweak your mice. I use a really high DPI mouse so I don't have this issue.
I'll try to find some more info or advice on this subject and post here when I do.
On October 04 2011 00:40 renox wrote: Well the thing is, SC2 ignores your windows sensitivity all together. It doesn't care if it's 6/11 or 11/11 it goes by the stupid percentage shit. Generally speaking for other games the way it was optimal to have was to set your mouse sensitivity to default (like in setpoint), windows to 6/11, max out your DPI or choose one sufficient enough for your in game resolution and THEN change your sensitivity IN GAME to your liking.
Honestly I don't really know how to advise you guys to tweak your mice. I use a really high DPI mouse so I don't have this issue.
I'll try to find some more info or advice on this subject and post here when I do.
Thank you, i forgot that windows doesn't affect SC2 xD
I could not find anything that would satisfy what you want to do. It seems that setpoint might add some acceleration if you change it from default, but IDK if it offsets the 1:1 ratio like the windows setting, couldn't find an answer for that. So I suppose you could tweak setpoint and live with the acceleration (i would check though if you get any with MarcC's mouse movement recorder) or tweak your sc2 sense and live with the lowered precision/accel that way or buy a new mouse i guess? Don't really like these options sorry
If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse pad to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Edit: this problem does not exist at lower sensitivities
On October 04 2011 00:32 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
ohhh no wonder i see all these pros putting their sensitivity at like 22% xD
But if you do that, then that means your windows speed will have to be at like 11/11 to make up for the 22% right? Or is that not how it works.
No like the post below you says the windows mouse settings do not effect Starcraft 2 if you have the mouse sensitivity option enables though i still suggest having 6/11 for windows. The way the settings work on windows 11/11 would skip pixels making it inaccurate. For example (i'm not sure on exact numbers) at 11/11 you move your mouse 1 pixel the mouse pointer on screen would move 5 pixels making it fast but inaccurate. They have there speed at 22% because of high dpi (dots per inch). Which iirc means that a mouse with 1600 dpi will move 1600 pixels per inch of mouse movement. So if your sensitivity in Starcraft is low 1600 dpi wont move as fast but be more accurate. So having low sensitivity and a high dpi leaves you with fast and precise mouse movement, where as high sensitivity low dpi skips pixels and leaves you with a fast but in accurate mouse.
If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse pad to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Low sensitivity is more accurate. Its personal preference however for what you like. personally I hate making big movement for moving my mouse so I prefer higher speeds
On October 04 2011 01:08 henery wrote: If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Well windows setting should always be set to 6/11 no matter what. FPS games let you tweak sens in game, which is good but SC2 sens settings are just basically windows settings. The problem is that anything more or less than 6/11 gives a non 1:1 ratio resulting in weird multiplications which hurt your accuracy because or rounding and stuff. So the IDEAL way to set your sens in sc2 would be like I said in a few posts above. Set windows to 6/11, default sens in drivers(if using any), and use DPI switching as a way to tweak your overall sensitivity. In FPS games the way to be ideal was much better because the games had their own sens you can change which don't hurt your accuracy unlike SC2. In FPS games you would 6/11 windows, default sens in drivers(if using any), DPI to whatever you want but sufficient enough for your res, and then change sens in game. Sadly sc2 uses some dumb system where if you change your sens to anything besides 51-54% you have mouse acceleration.
On October 04 2011 00:32 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
ohhh no wonder i see all these pros putting their sensitivity at like 22% xD
But if you do that, then that means your windows speed will have to be at like 11/11 to make up for the 22% right? Or is that not how it works.
No like the post below you says the windows mouse settings do not effect Starcraft 2 if you have the mouse sensitivity option enables though i still suggest having 6/11 for windows. The way the settings work on windows 11/11 would skip pixels making it inaccurate. For example (i'm not sure on exact numbers) at 11/11 you move your mouse 1 pixel the mouse pointer on screen would move 5 pixels making it fast but inaccurate. They have there speed at 22% because of high dpi (dots per inch). Which iirc means that a mouse with 1600 dpi will move 1600 pixels per inch of mouse movement. So if your sensitivity in Starcraft is low 1600 dpi wont move as fast but be more accurate. So having low sensitivity and a high dpi leaves you with fast and precise mouse movement, where as high sensitivity low dpi skips pixels and leaves you with a fast but in accurate mouse.
If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse pad to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Low sensitivity is more accurate. Its personal preference however for what you like. personally I hate making big movement for moving my mouse so I prefer higher speeds
While higher DPI technically means more accuracy that's only true to a point. If say you play on 1920x1080 and you use 5000 DPI it won't be more accurate than 2400 DPI. You need enough DPI at high resolutions so that your mouse doesn't skip pixels, that's it really. So for example 800 DPI would cause some skipping and on 1920x1080. I believe you only need ~1000 for 1980x1020 to have no skips though so it's not really demanding.
On October 04 2011 01:25 LovE-z33k wrote: I have my in game sensitivity to 97% :O
Guess I need to play with the dpi of my mouse first.. I have the deathadder btw.
Set your in game sens to 51% and leave windows at 6/11. Then using your DA driver set your DPI to something higher to compensate for the sens difference. 1st gen DA's had a max of 1800, the newer ones 3500
On October 04 2011 00:32 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
ohhh no wonder i see all these pros putting their sensitivity at like 22% xD
But if you do that, then that means your windows speed will have to be at like 11/11 to make up for the 22% right? Or is that not how it works.
No like the post below you says the windows mouse settings do not effect Starcraft 2 if you have the mouse sensitivity option enables though i still suggest having 6/11 for windows. The way the settings work on windows 11/11 would skip pixels making it inaccurate. For example (i'm not sure on exact numbers) at 11/11 you move your mouse 1 pixel the mouse pointer on screen would move 5 pixels making it fast but inaccurate. They have there speed at 22% because of high dpi (dots per inch). Which iirc means that a mouse with 1600 dpi will move 1600 pixels per inch of mouse movement. So if your sensitivity in Starcraft is low 1600 dpi wont move as fast but be more accurate. So having low sensitivity and a high dpi leaves you with fast and precise mouse movement, where as high sensitivity low dpi skips pixels and leaves you with a fast but in accurate mouse.
If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse pad to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Low sensitivity is more accurate. Its personal preference however for what you like. personally I hate making big movement for moving my mouse so I prefer higher speeds
While higher DPI technically means more accuracy that's only true to a point. If say you play on 1920x1080 and you use 5000 DPI it won't be more accurate than 2400 DPI. You need enough DPI at high resolutions so that your mouse doesn't skip pixels, that's it really. So for example 800 DPI would cause some skipping and on 1920x1080. I believe you only need ~1000 for 1980x1020 to have no skips though so it's not really demanding.
Ya your right I do remember reading that somewhere. low sensitivity with high dpi still does help. least in my experience
On October 04 2011 00:32 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
ohhh no wonder i see all these pros putting their sensitivity at like 22% xD
But if you do that, then that means your windows speed will have to be at like 11/11 to make up for the 22% right? Or is that not how it works.
No like the post below you says the windows mouse settings do not effect Starcraft 2 if you have the mouse sensitivity option enables though i still suggest having 6/11 for windows. The way the settings work on windows 11/11 would skip pixels making it inaccurate. For example (i'm not sure on exact numbers) at 11/11 you move your mouse 1 pixel the mouse pointer on screen would move 5 pixels making it fast but inaccurate. They have there speed at 22% because of high dpi (dots per inch). Which iirc means that a mouse with 1600 dpi will move 1600 pixels per inch of mouse movement. So if your sensitivity in Starcraft is low 1600 dpi wont move as fast but be more accurate. So having low sensitivity and a high dpi leaves you with fast and precise mouse movement, where as high sensitivity low dpi skips pixels and leaves you with a fast but in accurate mouse.
If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse pad to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Low sensitivity is more accurate. Its personal preference however for what you like. personally I hate making big movement for moving my mouse so I prefer higher speeds
While higher DPI technically means more accuracy that's only true to a point. If say you play on 1920x1080 and you use 5000 DPI it won't be more accurate than 2400 DPI. You need enough DPI at high resolutions so that your mouse doesn't skip pixels, that's it really. So for example 800 DPI would cause some skipping and on 1920x1080. I believe you only need ~1000 for 1980x1020 to have no skips though so it's not really demanding.
Ya your right I do remember reading that somewhere. low sensitivity with high dpi still does help. least in my experience
Well it doesn't hurt (unless your mouse has issues at high DPS settings) so why not right?
So im assuming me playing with the windows options at maxed(which are overrode anyways apparently), my deathadder drivers at 7 and my ingame to 99% and my dps set at 1800 dpi is bad. Ok time to mess with it lol.
On October 04 2011 01:38 FoeHamr wrote: So im assuming me playing with the windows options at maxed(which are overrode anyways apparently), my deathadder drivers at 7 and my ingame to 99% and my dps set at 1800 dpi is bad. Ok time to mess with it lol.
ALWAYS 6/11 in windows though, because it applies to everything in windows you will do. Sc2 overrides it but you should still use it if you ever play anything else plus you need dat precision for clicking stuff on your desktop . 51% in game and up your DPI
There are pics of why 6/11 is best in the OP of this thread but here are some more.
On October 04 2011 00:32 CrAzzYmr.BC wrote: there's a option in SC2 that says enable mouse sensitivity that overrides your current windows settings. Though you still want your windows settings at 6/11. If I remember with higher dpi mice you want to set the in game sensitivity lower giving you precision. With the mouse i have now the sensitivity is set to 80% in game with windows speed 6/11 it a slow mouse so i'm buying a better one soon.
ohhh no wonder i see all these pros putting their sensitivity at like 22% xD
But if you do that, then that means your windows speed will have to be at like 11/11 to make up for the 22% right? Or is that not how it works.
No like the post below you says the windows mouse settings do not effect Starcraft 2 if you have the mouse sensitivity option enables though i still suggest having 6/11 for windows. The way the settings work on windows 11/11 would skip pixels making it inaccurate. For example (i'm not sure on exact numbers) at 11/11 you move your mouse 1 pixel the mouse pointer on screen would move 5 pixels making it fast but inaccurate. They have there speed at 22% because of high dpi (dots per inch). Which iirc means that a mouse with 1600 dpi will move 1600 pixels per inch of mouse movement. So if your sensitivity in Starcraft is low 1600 dpi wont move as fast but be more accurate. So having low sensitivity and a high dpi leaves you with fast and precise mouse movement, where as high sensitivity low dpi skips pixels and leaves you with a fast but in accurate mouse.
If I use a really low sensitivity is this really a problem? I'm an old FPS player so I'm used to really low sensitivity and using my whole mouse pad to cover the whole screen. What it seams like to me is this problem only really exists for people using a sensitivity higher then 1:1 cursor:mouse moment ratio.
Low sensitivity is more accurate. Its personal preference however for what you like. personally I hate making big movement for moving my mouse so I prefer higher speeds
On October 04 2011 01:55 Rachnar wrote: Erm, so 5000 dpi + 100% on sc2 is bad from what in understand ? (just askign coz it's the settings i use)
OPTIMAL MOUSE SETTINGS 6/11 Windows setting. Default in drivers (if using any) Enhanced Precision UNCHECKED in mouse properties in Control Panel. 51-54% sensitivity in SC2 Use DPI as a way to tweak your sensitivity, more DPI for faster sens and less DPI for slower sens.