not sure if this has been already posted here..but I've got a news for those of you interested in korean sc2 scene
oGssSKS a.k.a. tester and oGsCool a.k.a. fruitseller recently quit oGs clan and the reason for leaving the clan is to enjoy sc2 as freely as possible. however they are playing for the upcoming GSL tournament so stay tuned if you are interested to see them in action
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Nothing. But it would be some delicious drama wouldn't it?
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Broad generalizations, ahoy! If China and Japan does it, all of Asia must do it too, mh? It's been years and years since all of Korea stuck to that attitude, pisses me off a tad bit when generalizations gets thrown about.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
I know many businesses in Japan and China who hire foreigner actors to sit at their offices in order to look better.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
I think it's in every country and not just asian. Every country has some companies/stores saying we don't hire foreigners in their country.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
I know many businesses in Japan and China who hire foreigner actors to sit at their offices in order to look better.
Oh shit son, give me their number and I'll take the first flight to Japan for my employment.
i believe this indicate good news good players are leaving top clan means there might be a new distribution of good players among clans which make the competitive scene more interesting.
Maybe they're prevented from entering a bunch of tournaments (IEM etc.) by oGs and would prefer to be allowed into events outside of Korea. Speculation yo.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
tbh this was true for SK during the 90's but Korean's decline of birth rate changed korea's attitude towards immigration. Thus Koreans were starting to be exposed to a lot more foreigners during the 00's. Now almost 1/50 People living in Korea are foreigners. Still, a lot of Korean companies will not hire black people, but that has to do with the image a black person creates in that company rather than not 'liking' the black person. A lot of older Koreans seem to be scared of American-Africans, no idea why... Wait... Dang those 80's American movies...
Although this would be a great drama, I think they just had an argument. About a different issue... Are they both Zergs?
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
Playing more freely sounds like a pretty legit reason when you remember that Kespa and the Korean team owners are the sort of people that will pull players out of competition in the middle of showmatches they flew halfway around the world for.
The two probably best players in the world leave their clan. If I had to guess, I'd say that they either hope for a better deal at another clan or want to start their own clan. In case money is not the reason why they leave, maybe it has something to do with TL coming to the ogs house...that'd be sad
Play more freely = Play in the nude. I think its a good choice on their behalf. Comfort and confidence are a huge part of the game. Clothes just weigh you down.
Maybe ogs is too strict old school , whereas tester and cool might been socialising with western guys more and more and feel more liberal - want to join more international tournaments and such.
Joining another Kr team seems bit wired ogs is by far the best there unless they make their own .
On August 23 2010 20:40 St3MoR wrote: looks like these guys don't want to expend 14h a day playing after all, they'll have to join the military soon anyway
I'd love to play 14 hours a day for once. I really miss those days where I could sit home without any worries about work and crap =P.
But having the freedom to choose between spending the day indoors or to take a break and go out is a really really a well valued freedom to have.
- Anonymous pro team tries to sign anonymous pro player. The whole group drinks on their bill. Nice.
Some team out there is recruiting and trying to sign players to contracts. We know that WeMade had a presence at Cologne. Is it possible that WeMade is starting an SC2 house and poached Tester/Cool?
Are any of the current european teams actually signing their SC2 players to paid contracts with salaries? I don't think so... I think it's just equipment sponsorships and travel expenses. But apparently there was a team that was actually looking to sign a CONTRACT in Cologne, unless I'm misunderstanding Zatic. Who else but WeMade would be doing this? Plus, they have a well-documented history of signing players from games other than Brood War (Counter-Strike, Warcraft 3, etc).
Speculating further (and I must stress this is purely speculation), if it was WeMade, I think it was probably TLO they were trying to sign, for a few reasons:
1) He was chosen for the showmatch against NaDa. This probably wasn't an arbitrary decision. It also suggests they had previously spoken to him. 2) They know he's going to be living in Korea. 3) Whoever it was that this anonymous team tried to sign, he turned them down. I don't think there's many people who would turn down a paid contract to play Starcraft, but I don't think anyone would disagree that TLO is fiercely loyal to TL. 4) TLO is probably the most well known and well liked Starcraft 2 player outside of Korea. This matters to a team since obviously the whole reason behind signing a player is to increase the public exposure of their sponsors. You sign TLO, you sign his fanbase.
I realize this looks like sensationalistic banter, and it probably is. But I like speculating. Please take any of this with a grain of salt.
Anyone who doesn't see the obvious connection to the TL move to the oGs house is blind.
Too bad, I would've loved to see the whole thing happening but now there are only 2 mediocre terrans in the house and some no-name Zergs and Tosses :/ sSKS and Cool really were the core of the whole strength of the team.
On August 23 2010 21:39 ChickenLips wrote: Anyone who doesn't see the obvious connection to the TL move to the oGs house is blind.
Too bad, I would've loved to see the whole thing happening but now there are only 2 mediocre terrans in the house and some no-name Zergs and Tosses :/ sSKS and Cool really were the core of the whole strength of the team.
I believe theSTC is just as good as they are. His show match performance was better, and judging from replays he can compete with/beat them.
On August 23 2010 21:39 ChickenLips wrote: Anyone who doesn't see the obvious connection to the TL move to the oGs house is blind.
Too bad, I would've loved to see the whole thing happening but now there are only 2 mediocre terrans in the house and some no-name Zergs and Tosses :/ sSKS and Cool really were the core of the whole strength of the team.
I believe theSTC is just as good as they are. His show match performance was better, and judging from replays he can compete with/beat them.
i'd say he's better than them, probably the best player in oGs even from the games i've seen Tester doesnt have a chance
- Anonymous pro team tries to sign anonymous pro player. The whole group drinks on their bill. Nice.
Some team out there is recruiting and trying to sign players to contracts. We know that WeMade had a presence at Cologne. Is it possible that WeMade is starting an SC2 house and poached Tester/Cool?
Are any of the current european teams actually signing their SC2 players to paid contracts with salaries? I don't think so... I think it's just equipment sponsorships and travel expenses. But apparently there was a team that was actually looking to sign a CONTRACT in Cologne, unless I'm misunderstanding Zatic. Who else but WeMade would be doing this? Plus, they have a well-documented history of signing players from games other than Brood War (Counter-Strike, Warcraft 3, etc).
Speculating further (and I must stress this is purely speculation), if it was WeMade, I think it was probably TLO they were trying to sign, for a few reasons:
1) He was chosen for the showmatch against NaDa. This probably wasn't an arbitrary decision. It also suggests they had previously spoken to him. 2) They know he's going to be living in Korea. 3) Whoever it was that this anonymous team tried to sign, he turned them down. I don't think there's many people who would turn down a paid contract to play Starcraft, but I don't think anyone would disagree that TLO is fiercely loyal to TL. 4) TLO is probably the most well known and well liked Starcraft 2 player outside of Korea. This matters to a team since obviously the whole reason behind signing a player is to increase the public exposure of their sponsors. You sign TLO, you sign his fanbase.
I realize this looks like sensationalistic banter, and it probably is. But I like speculating. Please take any of this with a grain of salt.
I don't think it is WMF. It could be one of the foreign pro-teams. My most likely bet is SK-Gaming since they;
a) Have money to spend on players b) Have a Korean-speaking manager in reis c) Have a really small roster (Madfrog only) d) Are historically known for taking the best players from Korea into their team
- Anonymous pro team tries to sign anonymous pro player. The whole group drinks on their bill. Nice.
Some team out there is recruiting and trying to sign players to contracts. We know that WeMade had a presence at Cologne. Is it possible that WeMade is starting an SC2 house and poached Tester/Cool?
Are any of the current european teams actually signing their SC2 players to paid contracts with salaries? I don't think so... I think it's just equipment sponsorships and travel expenses. But apparently there was a team that was actually looking to sign a CONTRACT in Cologne, unless I'm misunderstanding Zatic. Who else but WeMade would be doing this? Plus, they have a well-documented history of signing players from games other than Brood War (Counter-Strike, Warcraft 3, etc).
Speculating further (and I must stress this is purely speculation), if it was WeMade, I think it was probably TLO they were trying to sign, for a few reasons:
1) He was chosen for the showmatch against NaDa. This probably wasn't an arbitrary decision. It also suggests they had previously spoken to him. 2) They know he's going to be living in Korea. 3) Whoever it was that this anonymous team tried to sign, he turned them down. I don't think there's many people who would turn down a paid contract to play Starcraft, but I don't think anyone would disagree that TLO is fiercely loyal to TL. 4) TLO is probably the most well known and well liked Starcraft 2 player outside of Korea. This matters to a team since obviously the whole reason behind signing a player is to increase the public exposure of their sponsors. You sign TLO, you sign his fanbase.
I realize this looks like sensationalistic banter, and it probably is. But I like speculating. Please take any of this with a grain of salt.
I don't think it is WMF. It could be one of the foreign pro-teams. My most likely bet is SK-Gaming since they;
a) Have money to spend on players b) Have a Korean-speaking manager in reis c) Have a really small roster (Madfrog only) d) Are historically known for taking the best players from Korea into their team
yeah those are definitely all valid points. SK is probably the more likely culprit, and they have signed players to contracts in the past. I have no idea if they signed madfrog to a contract or not. For all we know he's still on an existing one.
Both players are over 27 years old, and are in preparation for mandatory military service. (Tester mentioned in a interview that he wants to make a big remark before going to military) They probably just wanted to enjoy SC2 as much as they can without a stress before going to military.
I'd guess that they're leaving for money. No other reason comes to mind. Anyway, why do they even need a team?? If they're confident they're going to do well in GSL, there's no reason for them to join a team. The salaries in SC2 are not yet established, may as well keep all the prize money for themselves!
- Anonymous pro team tries to sign anonymous pro player. The whole group drinks on their bill. Nice.
Some team out there is recruiting and trying to sign players to contracts. We know that WeMade had a presence at Cologne. Is it possible that WeMade is starting an SC2 house and poached Tester/Cool?
Are any of the current european teams actually signing their SC2 players to paid contracts with salaries? I don't think so... I think it's just equipment sponsorships and travel expenses. But apparently there was a team that was actually looking to sign a CONTRACT in Cologne, unless I'm misunderstanding Zatic. Who else but WeMade would be doing this? Plus, they have a well-documented history of signing players from games other than Brood War (Counter-Strike, Warcraft 3, etc).
Speculating further (and I must stress this is purely speculation), if it was WeMade, I think it was probably TLO they were trying to sign, for a few reasons:
1) He was chosen for the showmatch against NaDa. This probably wasn't an arbitrary decision. It also suggests they had previously spoken to him. 2) They know he's going to be living in Korea. 3) Whoever it was that this anonymous team tried to sign, he turned them down. I don't think there's many people who would turn down a paid contract to play Starcraft, but I don't think anyone would disagree that TLO is fiercely loyal to TL. 4) TLO is probably the most well known and well liked Starcraft 2 player outside of Korea. This matters to a team since obviously the whole reason behind signing a player is to increase the public exposure of their sponsors. You sign TLO, you sign his fanbase.
I realize this looks like sensationalistic banter, and it probably is. But I like speculating. Please take any of this with a grain of salt.
I don't think it is WMF. It could be one of the foreign pro-teams. My most likely bet is SK-Gaming since they;
a) Have money to spend on players b) Have a Korean-speaking manager in reis c) Have a really small roster (Madfrog only) d) Are historically known for taking the best players from Korea into their team
yeah those are definitely all valid points. SK is probably the more likely culprit, and they have signed players to contracts in the past. I have no idea if they signed madfrog to a contract or not. For all we know he's still on an existing one.
In signed a new one by all accounts. There was a live video of the signing.
On August 23 2010 22:24 mrlie3 wrote: Both players are over 27 years old, and are in preparation for mandatory military service. (Tester mentioned in a interview that he wants to make a big remark before going to military) They probably just wanted to enjoy SC2 as much as they can without a stress before going to military.
This would make sense. But that there are so many people who think they leave because of TL??!!? Come on...
- 이스트로 코치직을 그만 둔 이후 어떻게 지냈나? ▲ (신)정민이와 같이 이스트로에서 코치를 하면서 스타크래프트2 클로즈 베타가 시작됐다. 3라운드 끝나고 휴가 기간이 있었는데 그 때 마땅히 할 것도 없고 그래서 처음으로 스타2를 하게 됐다. 그 때 게임을 하면서 나중에 괜찮을 것 같다는 생각이 들었고, 처음부터 제대로 해보는 것이 좋겠다고 생각했다.
What have you been doing after quitting as estro (sp?) coach? SC2 closed beta started when I was coaching estro with Shin Jungmin. I got some time off after the 3rd round and had nothing better to do, so I started playing SC2. As I played, I saw it might turn out okay, so I thought I'd try it out in earnest.
- oGs 소속을 활동하지 않았었나? ▲ oGs에서 나온 이유는 나와 (김)원기가 편하게 게임을 즐기기 위해서다. 게임단 체제도 좋지만 우리 둘은 진정으로 스타2와 리그를 즐기고 싶었다. 그런 부분에서 자유로워지기 위해서 원기와 함께 팀을 나왔고, 현재 같이 생활하고 있다.
Why aren't you active in oGs anymore? Me and Wonki wanted to relax and enjoy games. Being in a team environment was nice but both of us wanted to really enjoy SC2 and leagues. For the purpose of more freedom, I left the team with wonki, we are now living together.
- 이스트로 코치직을 그만 둔 이유는 무엇인가? ▲ 마지 못해 코치 일을 하게 된 경향이 조금 있었다. FA가 됐을 때 게임을 잘 못했기 때문에 좋은 성과를 내지 못하기도 했고... FA 때 계약이 되기는 했는데 어떻게 하다보니 선수보다는 코치 일을 하게 됐다. 나는 스트레스를 받거나 신경쓸 것이 있으면 게임을 잘 못하는 편이다. 편하게 스타2에 집중하고 싶어서 코치직을 그만 둔 것이다.
Why did you quit as coach of estro? The coaching job was half forced upon me. It was also partly due to my bad performance in FA... I was contracted to FA but somehow I ended up as a coach. My gaming suffers when I get stressed or when I have other things on my mind. I wanted to play SC2 without all the burdens so I quit.
- 최근 스타2에 집중하고 있는데, 느낌이 어떤가? ▲ 예전에 프로리그 나갈 때, 게임을 많이 할 때와 비슷한 느낌이다. 매우 즐겁다. 스트레스를 받지 않고 나에게 졌다고 뭐라고 할 사람도 없으니까 편하다. 스타2 선수로도 성공하고 싶고, 즐기고 싶기도 하다. 즐기면서 잘하다보면 좋은 결과가 있을 것 같다. 큰 대회가 생겼기 때문에 돈도 벌 기회도 생겼다(웃음).
You are concentrating on SC2 now, what's it like? I get the same feeling as when I was in the pro-league. I'm very happy. There's no stress and noone criticizes me for losing. I want to succeed as a SC2 player and also enjoy it. I think I can get good results if I keep enjoying it and play well. There's also the prize money from the newly announced big tournament (laughs)
- 스타크래프트 프로게임단에 몸담았던 것들이 지금 도움이 되는가? ▲ 다른 선수들에 비해서 게임을 하는 법이나 연습 방법 등을 잘 알고 있다. 확실히 아마추어와 프로였던 사람들은 차이가 있다. 코치를 할 때 배운 것도 있다. 선수일 때는 자신의 종족과 경기만 생각하면 되는데, 코치는 여러 부분을 챙겨야 한다. 뒤에서 게임을 보다보면 시야가 더 넓어진다. 그런 것들이 도움이 된다.
Does your experience in a pro-team give you any help? Compared to other players, I know how to play games and practise better. There's a big difference between amateurs and those who were pros. I also learned alot from coaching. When you are a player, you only think of your race and the game, but coaches must look at the bigger picture. By observing games from afar, you get a wider perspective. I think those things help.
- 프로토스 종족의 최강자로 군림하고 있는데. ▲ 처음에는 테란을 했다. 그런데 (신)정민이가 프로토스가 좋다고 하더라. 그 때는 테란이 좋지 않았는데, 지금은 프로토스가 그 때보다 많이 안 좋아졌다(웃음).
Your called the king of Protoss... I started off as Terran. But Shin Jungmin said Protoss is better. Terran was not that good back then, but now Protoss is much weaker. (laughs)
- 김원기와 함께 독보적인 고수로 자리 잡고 있는데. ▲ 우리는 프로 생활을 했던 사람들이고 다른 사람들은 아마추어다. 선수 생활을 6년 정도 했는데 지금 스타2를 못한다면 그 동안의 시간이 헛된 것 아닌가? 그 차이가 있는 것 같다.
You are one of the undisputed gosu along with Kim Wonki... We were pros once and other people are amateurs. If I were bad at SC2 after being pro for six years, wouldn't that time have been wasted? I think that's what the difference is.
- 스타1 선수들이 본격적으로 스타2를 하면 어떨 것 같은가? ▲ 나중에는 심한 차이가 나지는 않을 것 같다. 시간이 지나면 스타2에서도 택뱅리쌍이 나올 것이다. 하지만 초기에는 스타1을 했던 선수들이 조금 더 잘할 수 있을 것이다. 다른 게임을 했던 사람들보다는 스타1을 했던 선수들이 분명 압도적인 경기력을 보여줄 수 있을 것으로 생각한다. 게임 운영 방식이 스타1과 거의 같다. 지금 내가 게임을 해봐도 후반 운영으로 갈수록 우리들이 더 잘하게 된다.
What do you think will happen if the BW pros come over to SC2? I don't think it will be much different from now. SC2 will eventually give birth to new Bisu's, Flash's, Boxer's and JaeDong's. Compared to players from other games, the pros from BW will have dominating play. The playstyle is almost identical to BW. Even now, we get better as the game gets longer (late-game).
- 스타1 선수들 중에서도 스타2를 하고 싶어하는 선수들이 있을 것 같은데. ▲ 현실적으로 말하자면 연습생 정도의 선수들은 그냥 지금부터 스타2를 준비하는 것이 좋다고 생각한다. 언제 스타2로 넘어갈지도 모르고, 스타1에 시간을 투자해서 택뱅리쌍처럼 되는 것도 현실적으로 어렵다. 일찍 스타2로 넘어와서 연습을 하는 것이 그들에게는 더 좋을지도 모른다. 자신의 미래를 생각한다면 스타2를 일찍 하는 것이 좋을 수 있다.
Aren't there BW pros who want to play SC2? I think the new crop in training should play SC2 instead. One never knows when SC2 will take over, and realistically, it will be very hard to become the next Bisu, Flash, Boxer or JaeDong. I think it might be better for them to start practising SC2 now. It's better for their future.
- GSL 대회 발표 이후 주변 고수들의 반응은 어떤가? ▲ 다들 자신이 1등을 할 수 있다는 생각을 가지고 준비를 하고 있다. 예선 지나고 16강 정도 지나면 우승자가 대충 보일 것 같다. 하지만 예선은 정말 어떻게 될지 모른다. GSL 기사가 뜨자 마자 스타1 선수들도 '스타2를 해볼까?'하는 생각을 했을 정도로 큰 규모의 대회다.
What did people around you think about the GSL tournament? They all think they can win it. I think the winner will become evident once we get to the round of 16. Even many BW pros thought about playing SC2 after the GSL was announced.
- 이번 GSL의 유력한 우승 후보 중 하나다. ▲ 우승을 할 수 있다고 생각하고 있다. 그래도 공성전에서 우승을 하기는 했지만 토너먼트는 어떻게 될지 모른다. 단판 토너먼트가 아니라 다행이기는 하지만, 내가 그 동안 여러 방송을 통해서 알려져있기 때문에 걱정이다. 스타2는 실력 차이가 많이 나더라도 이길 수 있는 게임이다. 스타1은 그렇지 못한데, 스타2는 전략이 다양하다. 불의의 전략을 조심해야 할 것 같다.
You are one of the favorites to take out the GSL I think I can win. Although I won the 공성전 (king of the hill?), I'm not too sure about tournaments. Although I'm glad it won't be single-match games, I'm concerned that I've become known too well through many broadcasts. SC2 is a game where anyone can win even if the skill level is very wide. BW is not like that, but SC2 has many strategies. One must be careful of cheese.
- 스타2의 e스포츠 시장이 어떻게 발전했으면 좋겠나? ▲ 스타1을 계속 해왔기 때문에 스타1처럼 프로리그도 생기고 개인리그도 생기는 모양새가 됐으면 좋겠다. 현실적으로 지금은 그렇게 되기 힘들 것 같아서 잘 모르겠다. 일단은 GSL이 잘 되어야 하는데 잘 될 것 같다.
How do you want SC2 to evolve as an e-sport? Since I've played BW, I would like a pro-league and solo-leagues to form like BW. But I think this might be difficult, realistically. We'll have to see how successful the GSL is.
- 이번 GSL을 우승하는데 있어서 가장 큰 걸림돌은 누구인가? ▲ (김)원기 뿐이다. 아무래도 다른 선수들과 다르다. 스타1에서 넘어온 선수들 중에 우리보다 잘했던 선수가 없다. 워3 선수들은 스타2지, 워4가 아니기 때문에 우리보다 다소 불리할 것이다. 후반으로 가면 갈수록 운영 싸움에서 우리가 유리하다. 멀티가 많아질수록 차이가 심해진다. 견제도 견제고, 생산도 생산이고 운영 방법 자체가 워크래프트3와는 다르다.
Who do you think will be your greatest obstacle in this GSL? There is only Kim Wonki. He is different from the other players. From all the players who've come over from BW, noone is better than us. Because this is Starcraft2, not Warcraft4, the WC3 players are at a disadvantage. As the game goes further into the late-game, we have more advantage due to micro. The more expansions, the better we get. Harrass is harrass, production is production, and micro skills are all different to WC3.
- KeSPA와 그래텍의 협상이 잘되어서 스타1 선수들이 스타2로 대거 넘어온다면 어떨 것 같은가? ▲ 스타1을 잘하는 선수들이 한다면 정말 무서울 것이다. 이제동, 이영호는 스타2를 하면 정말 잘할 것 같다. 프로토스 같은 경우는 우직한 컨셉이 그대로 남아있고, 그렇게 빠를 필요가 없다. 하지만 테란이나 저그는 빠를수록 좋은 종족이다. 그 둘이 지금의 종족을 그대로 이어서 한다면 다른 선수들과 차이가 정말 심할 것 같다.
What do you think will happen if KeSPA and Gretech resolve their differences and all the BW players come over to SC2? It will be terrifying if the BW players come. Especially Jaedong and Flash. In the case of Protoss, the concept of strong powerful units still exist so you don't need to be so fast, but Terran and Zerg are races that benefit greatly from quickness. If those two play the same races, there would be a huge difference in skill level compared to other players.
- 앞으로의 목표는 무엇인가? ▲ 대회 상금을 최대한 많이 벌어서 모은 뒤 군대에 가는 것이 목표다(웃음).
What are your near-term plans? I plan to earn as much money from tournaments before I goto mandatory military service (laughs)
- 보는 시청자의 입장에서 스타2를 즐겁게 보려면 어떻게 해야할까? ▲ 게임을 잘 알아야 할 것이다. 처음에는 확실히 어렵다. 유닛 상성을 잘 알고 있어야 교전이 일어났을 때 잘 파악할 수 있다. 한번 싸웠는데 누가 왜 이겼는지 정도는 알아야 게임을 즐겁게 볼 수 있을 것이다. 나도 처음에는 유닛이 잘 안보이고, 컨트롤도 잘 안되고 그랬다. 스타1에 비해 굉장히 빠르다. 하지만 많이 하고 적응을 하다보니 스타1이 너무 느리고, 유닛들이 기어가는 것 같더라(웃음). 스피드 면에서는 스타2가 확실히 대단하다.
What advice would you give spectators in order for them to enjoy SC2 the most? They need to know the game. It's definately hard in the beginning. They need to know the hard-counters in order to get the feeling of battles. They should at least know why a battle was won and lost. At first, even I found it hard to distinguish the units and control them. Compared to BW, the pace is much faster. But after adjustment I found BW to be too slow, it felt the units were crawling (laughs). In terms of speed, SC2 is definately faster.
- 스타1과 스타2의 차이점은 무엇일까? ▲ 유닛 상성이 심해졌다. 스타1 같은 경우는 한 유닛만 많이 뽑아서 밀면 밀린다. 하지만 스타2는 절대 그런 플레이가 불가능하다. 소수 유닛으로 다수 유닛을 막을 수 있을 정도로 상성이 심하다. 스타1에서는 뽑았던 유닛만 뽑고 정형화된 게임이 만들어지는데, 스타2는 상대의 움직임에 잘 맞춰야 하고, 유닛들이 계속 순환된다. 다양성 부분에서는 확실히 더 재미있다. 스타1은 한 번 싸울 때 오래 싸우는데, 스타2는 한타 싸움이 빨리 끝난다. 그래서 싸울 때 다음 전투를 잘 준비해야 한다.
What do you think are the differences between BW and SC2? Hard-counters play a big role. In BW, you can spam one unit and overrun your opponent. But this is impossible in SC2. Hard-counters are so strong that even small amounts of units can beat many units. In BW, you only make the standard units and play the standard strats, but in SC2, you must play according to what your opponent is making and the units [composition] continually cycle. It's definately more enjoyable in the diversity department. In BW, one battle lasts a long time, but in SC2, it ends quickly. That's why you must always be [have units] ready for the next battle.
- 이번 GSL에 임하는 각오 한마디 부탁 드린다. ▲ 지금 GSL을 앞두고 있는데 이 대회에서 좋은 모습을 보여드리고 싶다. 결승전에 가는 것이 목표다. (김)원기와 함께 결승에 가면 좋겠다. 일단은 결승까지 안 만나면 좋겠다(웃음). 이번에 (김)원기와 함께 지내면서 연습을 하는데 주변에서 많이들 도움을 주셨으면 좋겠다.
What is your mindset for this GSL? I want to display good play in this GSL. My objective is to reach the finals. It would be better to reach the finals with Wonki. It would be nice if I didn't have to face him until the finals (laughs). I would greatly appreciate lots of support from people around me as Wonki and myself practise together.
On August 23 2010 22:24 mrlie3 wrote: Both players are over 27 years old, and are in preparation for mandatory military service. (Tester mentioned in a interview that he wants to make a big remark before going to military) They probably just wanted to enjoy SC2 as much as they can without a stress before going to military.
This probably makes the most sense, barring any sneaky contract/snipe stuff (though that's pretty doubtful).
- oGs 소속을 활동하지 않았었나? ▲ oGs에서 나온 이유는 나와 (김)원기가 편하게 게임을 즐기기 위해서다. 게임단 체제도 좋지만 우리 둘은 진정으로 스타2와 리그를 즐기고 싶었다. 그런 부분에서 자유로워지기 위해서 원기와 함께 팀을 나왔고, 현재 같이 생활하고 있다.
Why aren't you active in oGs anymore? Me and Wonki wanted to relax and enjoy games. Being in a team environment was nice but both of us wanted to really enjoy SC2 and leagues. For the purpose of more freedom, I left the team with wonki, we are now living together.
- 이스트로 코치직을 그만 둔 이유는 무엇인가? ▲ 마지 못해 코치 일을 하게 된 경향이 조금 있었다. FA가 됐을 때 게임을 잘 못했기 때문에 좋은 성과를 내지 못하기도 했고... FA 때 계약이 되기는 했는데 어떻게 하다보니 선수보다는 코치 일을 하게 됐다. 나는 스트레스를 받거나 신경쓸 것이 있으면 게임을 잘 못하는 편이다. 편하게 스타2에 집중하고 싶어서 코치직을 그만 둔 것이다.
Why did you quit as coach of estro (sp?) The coaching job was half forced upon me. It was also partly due to my bad performance in FA... I was contracted to FA but somehow I ended up as a coach. My gaming suffers when I get stressed or when I have other things on my mind. I wanted to play SC2 without all the burdens so I quit.
- 최근 스타2에 집중하고 있는데, 느낌이 어떤가? ▲ 예전에 프로리그 나갈 때, 게임을 많이 할 때와 비슷한 느낌이다. 매우 즐겁다. 스트레스를 받지 않고 나에게 졌다고 뭐라고 할 사람도 없으니까 편하다. 스타2 선수로도 성공하고 싶고, 즐기고 싶기도 하다. 즐기면서 잘하다보면 좋은 결과가 있을 것 같다. 큰 대회가 생겼기 때문에 돈도 벌 기회도 생겼다(웃음).
You are concentrating on SC2 now, what's it like? I get the same feeling as when I was in the pro-league. I'm very happy. There's no stress and noone criticizes me for losing. I want to succeed as a SC2 player and also enjoy it. I think I can get good results if I keep enjoying it and play well. There's also the prize money from the newly announced big tournament (laughs)
- 스타크래프트 프로게임단에 몸담았던 것들이 지금 도움이 되는가? ▲ 다른 선수들에 비해서 게임을 하는 법이나 연습 방법 등을 잘 알고 있다. 확실히 아마추어와 프로였던 사람들은 차이가 있다. 코치를 할 때 배운 것도 있다. 선수일 때는 자신의 종족과 경기만 생각하면 되는데, 코치는 여러 부분을 챙겨야 한다. 뒤에서 게임을 보다보면 시야가 더 넓어진다. 그런 것들이 도움이 된다.
Does your experience in a pro-team give you any help? Compared to other players, I know how to play games and practise better. There's a big difference between amateurs and those who were pros. I also learned alot from coaching. When you are a player, you only think of your race and the game, but coaches must look at the bigger picture. By observing games from afar, you get a wider perspective. I think those things help.
- 프로토스 종족의 최강자로 군림하고 있는데. ▲ 처음에는 테란을 했다. 그런데 (신)정민이가 프로토스가 좋다고 하더라. 그 때는 테란이 좋지 않았는데, 지금은 프로토스가 그 때보다 많이 안 좋아졌다(웃음).
Your called the king of Protoss... I started off as Terran. But Shin Jungmin said Protoss is better. Terran was not that good back then, but now Protoss is much weaker. (laughs)
- 김원기와 함께 독보적인 고수로 자리 잡고 있는데. ▲ 우리는 프로 생활을 했던 사람들이고 다른 사람들은 아마추어다. 선수 생활을 6년 정도 했는데 지금 스타2를 못한다면 그 동안의 시간이 헛된 것 아닌가? 그 차이가 있는 것 같다.
You are one of the undisputed gosu along with Kim Wonki... We were pros at once and other people are amateurs. If I were bad at SC2 after being pro for six years, wouldn't that time have been wasted? I think that's what the difference is.
- 스타1 선수들이 본격적으로 스타2를 하면 어떨 것 같은가? ▲ 나중에는 심한 차이가 나지는 않을 것 같다. 시간이 지나면 스타2에서도 택뱅리쌍이 나올 것이다. 하지만 초기에는 스타1을 했던 선수들이 조금 더 잘할 수 있을 것이다. 다른 게임을 했던 사람들보다는 스타1을 했던 선수들이 분명 압도적인 경기력을 보여줄 수 있을 것으로 생각한다. 게임 운영 방식이 스타1과 거의 같다. 지금 내가 게임을 해봐도 후반 운영으로 갈수록 우리들이 더 잘하게 된다.
What do you think will happen if the BW pros come over to SC2? I don't think it will be much different from now. SC2 will eventually give birth to new Bisu's, Flash's, Boxer's and JaeDong's. Compared to players from other games, the pros from BW will have dominating play. The playstyle is almost identical to BW. Even now, we get better when we enter the late game.
- 스타1 선수들 중에서도 스타2를 하고 싶어하는 선수들이 있을 것 같은데. ▲ 현실적으로 말하자면 연습생 정도의 선수들은 그냥 지금부터 스타2를 준비하는 것이 좋다고 생각한다. 언제 스타2로 넘어갈지도 모르고, 스타1에 시간을 투자해서 택뱅리쌍처럼 되는 것도 현실적으로 어렵다. 일찍 스타2로 넘어와서 연습을 하는 것이 그들에게는 더 좋을지도 모른다. 자신의 미래를 생각한다면 스타2를 일찍 하는 것이 좋을 수 있다.
Aren't there BW pros who want to play SC2?I think the new crop in training should play SC2 instead. One never knows when SC2 will take over, and realistically, it will be very hard to become the next Bisu, Flash, Boxer or JaeDong. I think it might be better for them to start practising SC2 now. It's better for their future.
- GSL 대회 발표 이후 주변 고수들의 반응은 어떤가? ▲ 다들 자신이 1등을 할 수 있다는 생각을 가지고 준비를 하고 있다. 예선 지나고 16강 정도 지나면 우승자가 대충 보일 것 같다. 하지만 예선은 정말 어떻게 될지 모른다. GSL 기사가 뜨자 마자 스타1 선수들도 '스타2를 해볼까?'하는 생각을 했을 정도로 큰 규모의 대회다.
What did people around you think about the GSL tournament? They all think they can win it. I think the winner will become evident once we get to the round of 16. Even many BW pros thought about playing SC2 after the GSL was announced.
- 이번 GSL의 유력한 우승 후보 중 하나다. ▲ 우승을 할 수 있다고 생각하고 있다. 그래도 공성전에서 우승을 하기는 했지만 토너먼트는 어떻게 될지 모른다. 단판 토너먼트가 아니라 다행이기는 하지만, 내가 그 동안 여러 방송을 통해서 알려져있기 때문에 걱정이다. 스타2는 실력 차이가 많이 나더라도 이길 수 있는 게임이다. 스타1은 그렇지 못한데, 스타2는 전략이 다양하다. 불의의 전략을 조심해야 할 것 같다.
You are one of the favorites to take out the GSL I think I can win. Although I won the 공성전 (king of the hill?), I'm not too sure about tournaments. Although I'm glad it won't be single-match games, I'm concerned that I've become known through many broadcasts. SC2 is a game where anyone can win even if the skill level is very wide. BW is not like that, but SC2 has many strategies. One must be careful of cheese.
- 스타2의 e스포츠 시장이 어떻게 발전했으면 좋겠나? ▲ 스타1을 계속 해왔기 때문에 스타1처럼 프로리그도 생기고 개인리그도 생기는 모양새가 됐으면 좋겠다. 현실적으로 지금은 그렇게 되기 힘들 것 같아서 잘 모르겠다. 일단은 GSL이 잘 되어야 하는데 잘 될 것 같다.
How do you want SC2 to evolve as an e-sport? Since I've played BW, I would like a pro-league and solo-leagues to form like BW. But I think this might be difficult, realistically. We'll have to see how successful the GSL is.
GAAAH ok i'll post the rest after I go out to the shops. BRB
What do we do whena reply is better than the OP.
That certainly cleared a lot of things up. "I think I can win" well, he seems rather too confident... I'm guessing there will be a lot ppl in GSL though.
maybe they wasn't allowed to take part in foreign tournaments IEM for example.. Or other online tourneys they have good chances to win alot from theweekly and montly tourneys
On August 23 2010 22:24 mrlie3 wrote: Both players are over 27 years old, and are in preparation for mandatory military service. (Tester mentioned in a interview that he wants to make a big remark before going to military) They probably just wanted to enjoy SC2 as much as they can without a stress before going to military.
This would make sense. But that there are so many people who think they leave because of TL??!!? Come on...
Don't be kidding. Everyone knows that the world revolves around TeamLiquid.
I don't understand some here claiming that they are pretty much the "best toss and zerg players in the world".
There isn't even a shred of evidence for that, is there??? Was there some tournament I'm not aware of?? Some set of replays that shows their "best in the world" skills???
Apparently you just have to be Korean with a known name to be the "best in the world", huh? Sorry I just don't understand it.
Its obvious that we came to that conclusion after watching their replays and comparing them to other players of the same race - especially against better opponents and managing better in worse situations.
Sure there are other factors involved but these are some of them.
On August 23 2010 21:39 ChickenLips wrote: Anyone who doesn't see the obvious connection to the TL move to the oGs house is blind.
Too bad, I would've loved to see the whole thing happening but now there are only 2 mediocre terrans in the house and some no-name Zergs and Tosses :/ sSKS and Cool really were the core of the whole strength of the team.
I believe theSTC is just as good as they are. His show match performance was better, and judging from replays he can compete with/beat them.
i'd say he's better than them, probably the best player in oGs even from the games i've seen Tester doesnt have a chance
I'd say that StC is better as he just plays the 'better' race atm.
From what I can gather (from tester at least) is that he is disappointed with the game. from that article that said, [semi butchered translation] "I find it disappointing that clearly inferior players are able to take games from players that possess much greater skill than them."
That was the general summary question that followed questions mainly concerning balance.
great translation, clears up a lot of the questions. It quitting the team to get out of coaching responsibilities and what not so he can focus on gaming makes far more sense then the people saying it was cause TL living in the house. Honestly it boggles the mind that people would have come to that conclusion at all.
Also: when have you ever heard a progammer say "I have no chance to win <event x>" you don't get that good with out being confident
sounds like they both had their reasons for wanting to leave and i doubt it has anything to with TL coming to live and practice with them for how many weeks it is. it sounds like the responsibilities and pressure that came with being in a pro team didnt suit them much and they decided to act on it. good for them and i hope they do well in the GSL.
From my point of view, here's what I think happenned.
oGs told Tester and Fruitseller that the GSL winning money (most likely a huge % of it) would go to the team. Tester and Fruitseller, knowing they had army service soon, didn't want to leave so much money to a team they'll leave for a year or so. They know they are the favourites to win, thus they left the team to cash in the whole price before going to the army.
Not so pretty a picture, I know, but for me it's what makes most sense.
What's with all the people suggesting they'd join TL? lol. They probably have random personal reasons and don't want to be on a team. Or military service factors in, or whatever. I doubt there is some amazing drama going on that needs speculation.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
I think it's in every country and not just asian. Every country has some companies/stores saying we don't hire foreigners in their country.
In the USA it is illegal to do that. So maybe most countries but not all countries.
Hopefully this is the start of the top players defecting to SC2 only teams which will help the game grow. Although I prefer some of the Prime guys, Check and Maka.. the oGs guys are strong too, Korean Ladder is dominated by both teams. Will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Players switch teams and alliances all the time, E-Sports tends to be even more mercenary than normal sports, at least judging by the way CS players used to team hop.
On August 24 2010 00:51 Gingerninja wrote: Hopefully this is the start of the top players defecting to SC2 only teams which will help the game grow. Although I prefer some of the Prime guys, Check and Maka.. the oGs guys are strong too, Korean Ladder is dominated by both teams. Will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Players switch teams and alliances all the time, E-Sports tends to be even more mercenary than normal sports, at least judging by the way CS players used to team hop.
Huh?
tester and cool aren't defecting to SC2 only teams. They're leaving a SC2 only team to become more casual, stress free players.
On August 24 2010 00:14 skipdog172 wrote: I don't understand some here claiming that they are pretty much the "best toss and zerg players in the world".
There isn't even a shred of evidence for that, is there??? Was there some tournament I'm not aware of?? Some set of replays that shows their "best in the world" skills???
Apparently you just have to be Korean with a known name to be the "best in the world", huh? Sorry I just don't understand it.
There were number of tournaments (and King of the Hill matches) in Korea, just like how there were many tournaments in US and EU. Tester and Cool are considered to be the best of Protoss and Zerg players in Korea from these tournaments. From what I know, Star2Gether - a King of the Hill style tournament - was one of the major tournament in Korea, and Tester won the tournament with undefeated record.
Doubt it has anything to do with TL coming to live and practice with them. Most likely they think about their future and their upcoming military service. Both being under the top contenders for the gsl win they probably thought that splitting all earned price money between both of them is way better than splitting with the whole oGs team ^_^
By the way when do we finally get some articles about TL in korea? When i read about them flying to korea i thought that there would be a huge coverage about them on this site. Would really love to read about the life in a pro-gaming house from a foreigners perspective.
On August 24 2010 00:51 Gingerninja wrote: Hopefully this is the start of the top players defecting to SC2 only teams which will help the game grow. Although I prefer some of the Prime guys, Check and Maka.. the oGs guys are strong too, Korean Ladder is dominated by both teams. Will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Players switch teams and alliances all the time, E-Sports tends to be even more mercenary than normal sports, at least judging by the way CS players used to team hop.
Huh?
tester and cool aren't defecting to SC2 only teams. They're leaving a SC2 only team to become more casual, stress free players.
I must have understood wrong them, someone earlier in the thread made mention that they maybe were being forced to continue playing SC:BW too, I wasn't aware they were a total only SC2 team, I thought they were a SC:BW team that also had an SC2 team under their umbrella.
damn I shoulda translated the Fruitseller interview instead. This guy doesn't beat around the bush. Oh well. Some other korean guy can take a crack at it.
And no, none of the conspiracy theories are correct. Fruitseller and Tester just got tired of the strict regiment in the team. They felt it was hindering their enjoyment.
BTW, he says:
- 저그 종족이 매우 힘들다고 하더라. ▲ 타종족으로 해도 지금 저그 잘한다는 사람들을 이길 수 있을 정도의 자신감을 갖고 있고 그 만큼 저그가 힘들다. 저그 같은 경우는 아직 세세한 부분이 정립이 되어 있지 않다. 나쁘지는 않은데 중후반으로 넘어가면서 힘싸움에서 다른 종족을 이기기가 너무 힘들다.
Is zerg underpowered? I have enough confidence to beat any zerg, no matter how good they are, with a different race. That's how difficult it is for zerg. Zerg are lacking the small details at the moment. It's not terrible but it's very hard to win the brute force battles against other races after mid-late game.
And for all you foreign hopefuls who think they can make it in SC2. Fruitseller says:
스타1에서 안되는 친구들은 스타2에서도 안될 수도 있다. If you're bad at BW, you'll probably be bad at SC2.
On August 24 2010 01:36 junkacc wrote: damn I shoulda translated the Fruitseller interview instead. This guy doesn't beat around the bush. Oh well. Some other korean guy can take a crack at it.
And no, none of the conspiracy theories are correct. Fruitseller and Tester just got tired of the strict regiment in the team. They felt it was hindering their enjoyment.
dude, stand up and translate this man, nobody else is even on to this yet
and make a new thread for the 2 interviews when you're done, definite deserve their own thread.
Great insight from Tester's interview. Thanks junkacc. Going pro at SC2 and even BW looks too mentally taxing. Their training schedule seems too extreme.
Well, this GSL might be the only chance you get. According to Fruitseller:
- 스타1과 스타2의 차이점은 무엇인가? ▲ 스타1을 했을 때 게을렀던 이유는 '손이 느려서 였다'다. 자원이 너무 많이 남는다. 하지만 스타2는 인터페이스가 쉽다. 아직까지는 손속도가 매우 중요하지는 않지만, 앞으로 스타1 현역 선수들이 들어오거나 시간이 더 지나면 손속도는 더욱 중요해질 것 같다.
What are the differences between BW and SC2? The reason I got lazy in BW was because of my slow hands. I kept piling up too much resources because I couldn't use it. But SC2 has a better interface. Having quick hands is not so essential now but I feel when the current BW pros come over, quick hands will become very important.
Oh and to clear up any misunderstanding about the foreign player remark I made, here's the full quote:
- 스타1 현역 선수들이 스타2를 한다면 어떨 것 같은가? ▲ 프로게임단에 있으면 게임을 10시간 정도로 하는데, 다들 손이 좋다. 아마추어들보다는 적응하는 기간도 빠를 것이다. 하지만 와서 특출나게 잘할 수 있는 사람은 지금 스타1에서 최상위권에 있는 선수들일 것 같다. 스타1에서 안되는 친구들은 스타2에서도 안될 수도 있다. 성공을 해야겠다는 마인드와 자세가 매우 중요하다. 스타2에서도 정말 열심히 해야한다.
How do you think the current BW pros would fare in SC2? All the pros practise 10 hours [a day] and they have good hands. They would have a shorter adjustment period than amateurs. But the pros on top of the current standings would be exceptional. If you're bad at BW, you'll probably be bad at SC2. You must have a mindset and a determination to succeed. You must be as diligent in SC2 as in BW.
On August 24 2010 02:18 junkacc wrote: Well, this GSL might be the only chance you get. According to Fruitseller:
- 스타1과 스타2의 차이점은 무엇인가? ▲ 스타1을 했을 때 게을렀던 이유는 '손이 느려서 였다'다. 자원이 너무 많이 남는다. 하지만 스타2는 인터페이스가 쉽다. 아직까지는 손속도가 매우 중요하지는 않지만, 앞으로 스타1 현역 선수들이 들어오거나 시간이 더 지나면 손속도는 더욱 중요해질 것 같다.
What are the differences between BW and SC2? The reason I got lazy in BW was because of my slow hands. I kept piling up too much resources because I couldn't use it. But SC2 has a better interface. Having quick hands is not so essential now but I feel when the current BW pros come over, quick hands will become very important.
Oh and to clear up any misunderstanding about the foreign player remark I made, here's the full quote:
- 스타1 현역 선수들이 스타2를 한다면 어떨 것 같은가? ▲ 프로게임단에 있으면 게임을 10시간 정도로 하는데, 다들 손이 좋다. 아마추어들보다는 적응하는 기간도 빠를 것이다. 하지만 와서 특출나게 잘할 수 있는 사람은 지금 스타1에서 최상위권에 있는 선수들일 것 같다. 스타1에서 안되는 친구들은 스타2에서도 안될 수도 있다. 성공을 해야겠다는 마인드와 자세가 매우 중요하다. 스타2에서도 정말 열심히 해야한다.
How do you think the current BW pros would fare in SC2? All the pros practise 10 hours [a day] and they have good hands. They would have a shorter adjustment period than amateurs. But the pros on top of the current standings would be exceptional. If you're bad at BW, you'll probably be bad at SC2. You must have a mindset and a determination to succeed. You must be as diligent in SC2 as in BW.
Yeah, that makes more sense. Fruitseller seems to be saying that you need the same dedication and determination to succeed in SC2, as if it were BW. From what I've seen so far, the top foreigners have showed this to some extent. Obviously they will have to commit more time to SC2 as the game progresses. With teams like SK, etc coming into the fray i see this coming more of a possibility in the future compared to foreigner BW.
On August 24 2010 01:36 junkacc wrote: - 저그 종족이 매우 힘들다고 하더라. ▲ 타종족으로 해도 지금 저그 잘한다는 사람들을 이길 수 있을 정도의 자신감을 갖고 있고 그 만큼 저그가 힘들다. 저그 같은 경우는 아직 세세한 부분이 정립이 되어 있지 않다. 나쁘지는 않은데 중후반으로 넘어가면서 힘싸움에서 다른 종족을 이기기가 너무 힘들다.
Is zerg underpowered? I have enough confidence to beat any zerg, no matter how good they are, with a different race. That's how difficult it is for zerg. Zerg are lacking the small details at the moment. It's not terrible but it's very hard to win the brute force battles against other races after mid-late game.
So.. the best Korean zerg in the world (Cool), the best European zerg (Dimaga) and the best American (Idra) all think Zerg is broken (along with tons of others). But Blizzard is still pointing at the Korean ladder.. "oh look they're doing fine".
Basically from the Cool interview, he says that he hasn't been practicing that much and he hates the idea that you have to practice hard/constantly to be successful and thats the reason why he left oGs with Tester and says that they're living together and practicing much more freely.
On August 24 2010 02:53 bokchoi wrote: Basically from the Cool interview, he says that he hasn't been practicing that much and he hates the idea that you have to practice hard/constantly to be successful and thats the reason why he left oGs with Tester and says that they're living together and practicing much more freely.
But they are sooo good... That kinda pisses me off.
On August 24 2010 02:53 bokchoi wrote: Basically from the Cool interview, he says that he hasn't been practicing that much and he hates the idea that you have to practice hard/constantly to be successful and thats the reason why he left oGs with Tester and says that they're living together and practicing much more freely.
He is right, the age of 10 hour practices are over, mental advances will start to take the edge over burning yourself out. For any sort of longevity in the scene you will be better off creating a practice regiment with balance instead of just trying to cram games in.
On August 24 2010 01:36 junkacc wrote: - 저그 종족이 매우 힘들다고 하더라. ▲ 타종족으로 해도 지금 저그 잘한다는 사람들을 이길 수 있을 정도의 자신감을 갖고 있고 그 만큼 저그가 힘들다. 저그 같은 경우는 아직 세세한 부분이 정립이 되어 있지 않다. 나쁘지는 않은데 중후반으로 넘어가면서 힘싸움에서 다른 종족을 이기기가 너무 힘들다.
Is zerg underpowered? I have enough confidence to beat any zerg, no matter how good they are, with a different race. That's how difficult it is for zerg. Zerg are lacking the small details at the moment. It's not terrible but it's very hard to win the brute force battles against other races after mid-late game.
So.. the best Korean zerg in the world (Cool), the best European zerg (Dimaga) and the best American (Idra) all think Zerg is broken (along with tons of others). But Blizzard is still pointing at the Korean ladder.. "oh look they're doing fine".
Actually Blizzard was already nerfing Terran on their internal servers before the game was even released. Just look at patch 17 of beta which reverted some changes that were meant for their internal servers.
Q- What have you been up to after you retirement as a progamer? A- I've been doing this and that after my retirement. I couldnt get a postponement on my military service so i had to do that quite abruptly. I didnt find out i was going until just 3 days before (laughter). I quit work and reported in but my health wasnt great so i had to leave the training camp prematurely. It was the worst situation to be in. I was so embarrassed i submerged (korean expression for staying on the low) for around a month (another laughter). I tried going back to work but things werent going so great so i got into Starcraft 2(SC2) during my breaks. After playing for a while, i attended some tournaments with good players and things just continued to this point in time (more laughter )
Q- Why did you decide to quit the progaming scene in the first place? A- I retired because i was lazy. I wasnt improving much so i made the decision to quit. To be frank, when i started playing SC2, i wasnt thinking about tournaments but just enjoying the game. However as the tournaments grew in size, so did my ambition. That naturally led to concerns about how much practice hours to put in. I dont practice a lot but i want to change that.
Q- Compared to other former BW players, you are distinguishing yourself. thoughts? A- I do think i am better then most but thats down to the fact that there are a lot former Warcraft 3 players on the SC2 scene. Its SC2 not Warcraft 4. So this is why i think im more equipped in the fundamentals to do better.
Q- I heard Zerg is a very hard race to play with. A- Even with the other races, i am quite confident that i can beat good zerg players. Thats how hard zerg is. Unlike other races, zerg's main powers are yet to be established. Its not bad but as you transition into mid-late games, its very hard to stand toe to toe with armies of the other races.
Q- You are famous as 'Fruitseller'. why did you choose that ID? A- Thats my family's business. During the closed beta time (between phase 1 and 2) i helped out with the family and when i came back with the 2nd phase, the ID had been reset. So i just chose 'Fruitseller'. My ID during phase 1 was 'Stick-man' and many were recognising me. the reason i changed was because i wanted less of that.
Q- Whats the difference between SC1 and SC2? A- The reason i was lazy when i played SC1 was because i had slow hands. I ended up having a lot of resources built up but in SC2, the interface is easier. Right now the hand speed isnt very important but as the active SC1 progamers come into the scene and time passes, im sure it will become much more important.
Q- The GSL is coming up, are you practicing much? A- Frankly i dont practice that much even now (laughter). I dont like the fixation that i have to practice a lot. This is the reason i left oGs and its methodical nature with Tester and i am having fun practicing. To be honest, to win the GSL, i need to practice more and im sure there are others who are clocking in a lot more then i am. Im in a situation where i need to force myself to play games (laughter) and its difficult but i really need to be dilligent now. In truth, i just want to enjoy SC2.
Q- You are becoming the hope to a lot of zerg players out there. A- I havent been giving 100% so far. I just wanted to have fun and thats why i played it. In the GSL, i will definitely show my best. If you see it yourself, you will know.
Q- What do you think it'll be like if the currently active SC1 progamers play SC2? A- If you're in a progaming team, you play around 10 hours a day and thats why they have great hand skills. Im sure they will adapt quicker then the amateurs. However i think only the top tier players in SC1 right now can make the tranisition and become outstanding SC2 players. Those not at the top in SC1 can face the same situation in SC2. Whats important is the mindset and attitude to succeed. You really have to work your socks off in SC2 as well.
Q- Surely though, they will have an advantage? A- SC1 and SC2 are different games. However it is still important to micro well to buy yourself time and i think SC1 players will have an advantage here. The great improvement in interface means its become quite comfortable to play. Also there is great diversity in strategies. I think in the long run, it'll be hard for players to dominate like Jaedong and Flash is doing right now. SC1 progamers' greatest advantage right now is their 'hands' but as time passes i think those aspects will become weaker (i know this kind of contradicts with his earlier statement but thats what the article says). However, when it comes to results, i think those who were good at SC1 will continue to do well in SC2. I just dont think the gap between the players will be as large.
Q- Do you think Tester will be 'the' obstacle in your challenge for the GSL? A- I dont really think of him as the obstacle. I'll just try my best to enjoy the game as much as i can before beginning my military service. I prefer to see myself as a PCbang gosu then a progamer (laughter).
Q- What is your target for the upcoming GSL? A- I think losing in the qualifying rounds will really be bad. If i can get through that unscathed, i think i will do well. My main target is to enjoy the league but i also want to play in a broadcasted match. Right now my ambition for the GSL means i dont want to show all my cards on internet broadcasts. There is a burden of expectation but i really think i can show something great in the GSL.
if some of the sentences will feel disjointed, its because i translated too literally. my apologies for that but my korean is very rusty
On August 24 2010 02:53 teamsolid wrote: So.. the best Korean zerg in the world (Cool), the best European zerg (Dimaga) and the best American (Idra) all think Zerg is broken (along with tons of others). But Blizzard is still pointing at the Korean ladder.. "oh look they're doing fine".
Do you really have to shit up every thread with balance discussion. Can't we keep this discussion to the topic at hand?
On topic: I really hope Team Liquid still can practice with them. They would be extremely valuable as practice partners.
Before I clicked on the thread, I thought the title said they quit SC2 on the sidebar. I think it's good that they left since they said they want to enjoy SC2. Some players get burned out from playing so much and sometimes play worse.
On August 24 2010 03:29 zoLo wrote: Before I clicked on the thread, I thought the title said they quit SC2 on the sidebar. I really want to know the reason why they left because to play more freely is vague.
Because they're retired BW pros in their late 20s about to go to the military and in their last days as progamers they want to enjoy their time as much as they can without enduring a 10-14 hour a day practice schedule. Makes sense?
I hope we'll see more of both of them, regardless. They're fantastic players. I hope to one day work with them when I begin to host tournaments on the Asia server.
Thanks for the news and translations. Very interesting. For some reason I generally thought of retired BW players as having already done their military service, obviously not the case...
On August 24 2010 03:56 SoLuTioN. wrote: Thx for translating the interviews!
+1, thanks for multiple translations too.. nice to get as many translations as possible, because my newb ass has no idea if the translater actually speaks korean. XD
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
It was just a speculation. You know that some parts of Asia are actually really racists? Hard to believe but thats how it is. Im not saying it's Korea, but Japan for example is. Especially when you go abit further from the major cities or places.
On August 24 2010 03:29 zoLo wrote: Before I clicked on the thread, I thought the title said they quit SC2 on the sidebar. I really want to know the reason why they left because to play more freely is vague.
Because they're retired BW pros in their late 20s about to go to the military and in their last days as progamers they want to enjoy their time as much as they can without enduring a 10-14 hour a day practice schedule. Makes sense?
Yes, I know that. I made that comment before I saw the interview.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
Props for the translations. I hope Cool does well. It'd be nice if they don't have to kill themselves to play at a competitive entertaining level.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
I don't really see how you can get angry or even draw that conclusion from what he typed lol. Relax.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Broad generalizations, ahoy! If China and Japan does it, all of Asia must do it too, mh? It's been years and years since all of Korea stuck to that attitude, pisses me off a tad bit when generalizations gets thrown about.
Did you read his post, he some some cultures in east asia do it, not all, then he said he wasnt sure about south korea. read before you post
On August 24 2010 07:43 YunhOLee wrote: can't believe they're leaving oGs just really hope this won't do a domino effect and bring the others to leave as well
If anything it will probably encourage more people... if these two are gonna take it easy everyone else has a way better chance now.
On August 24 2010 07:43 YunhOLee wrote: can't believe they're leaving oGs just really hope this won't do a domino effect and bring the others to leave as well
I think some players complained that too much training = counterproductive. AFAIK IdrA also mentioned that one time. Maybe they feel at their age, practicing less will be better for the mood/nerve. After all at their ages, they won't improve APM much anymore by over-practicing.
Tester also said not having to coach is less stress for him. Hopefully it means this will improve their performance in the tournaments.
What a big shame. Cool was my favourite zerg in the world ): Tester seems confident that both he and Cool are the best players in the world and that either of them can win the GSL. I don't doubt him.
On August 23 2010 21:00 OhJesusWOW wrote: Play more freely = Play in the nude. I think its a good choice on their behalf. Comfort and confidence are a huge part of the game. Clothes just weigh you down.
The idea that it's because foreigners are moving in is laughably ridiculous. They're both ex-eSTRO players for fuck's sake, they've probably spent more time with at least one foreigner than without one.
Are they sort of affiliated? It seems like they left on pretty good terms.
Otherwise, this kind of means that Prime vs. oGs is now much more of a heated debate. I suppose Ensnare can still all-kill Prime, as long as Anypro is not available.
Q- You are becoming the hope to a lot of zerg players out there. A- I havent been giving 100% so far. I just wanted to have fun and thats why i played it. In the GSL, i will definitely show my best. If you see it yourself, you will know.
I guess oGs was more a losely based clan for friends to train together, right? I don't think they got paid and had a sponsor or sth. I think they just wanna put it out there that they are available. ^^'
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
I'm Chinese/Vietnamese American. I've been to Japan, China and Taiwan and have family there. It's not a matter of PC vs non-PC; there's a lot of Asian stereotypes that are more truth than fiction. But Asians hating westerners? You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't try and tell me what my culture is about you tool.
Q- You are becoming the hope to a lot of zerg players out there. A- I havent been giving 100% so far. I just wanted to have fun and thats why i played it. In the GSL, i will definitely show my best. If you see it yourself, you will know.
You just said you cant judge and base facts on Asian culture as a whole and yet you say they aren't one way and are another. Just wanted to point that out. ^^
i don't really understand this "because they will have to work with foreigners" thing. koreans don't hate westerners. korea, is the second most western culture that isn't in the west (next to japan). they didn't adopt their very western culture unwillingly. they were eager to compete in the global market, and done that they have.
i think the two either were just restricted in one way or another by the team or they got a better offer from another team.
On August 23 2010 22:46 junkacc wrote: - 이번 GSL의 유력한 우승 후보 중 하나다. ▲ 우승을 할 수 있다고 생각하고 있다. 그래도 공성전에서 우승을 하기는 했지만 토너먼트는 어떻게 될지 모른다. 단판 토너먼트가 아니라 다행이기는 하지만, 내가 그 동안 여러 방송을 통해서 알려져있기 때문에 걱정이다. 스타2는 실력 차이가 많이 나더라도 이길 수 있는 게임이다. 스타1은 그렇지 못한데, 스타2는 전략이 다양하다. 불의의 전략을 조심해야 할 것 같다.
You are one of the favorites to take out the GSL I think I can win. Although I won the 공성전 (king of the hill?), I'm not too sure about tournaments. Although I'm glad it won't be single-match games, I'm concerned that I've become known too well through many broadcasts. SC2 is a game where anyone can win even if the skill level is very wide. BW is not like that, but SC2 has many strategies. One must be careful of cheese.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
I'm Chinese/Vietnamese American. I've been to Japan, China and Taiwan and have family there. It's not a matter of PC vs non-PC; there's a lot of Asian stereotypes that are more truth than fiction. But Asians hating westerners? You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't try and tell me what my culture is about you tool.
Oh please. Asian doesn't see any hate towards white people in Asia? You must know hell of alot about it then. None hasn't been saying anything about all the Asians hating westerns. The fact is that there is places in Asia where people doesn't like white people. It's same in everywhere, some people doesn't like other people if they are different race.
And no, I'm not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons. This went off-topic, but just had to clear out some facts. peace~
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
I know many businesses in Japan and China who hire foreigner actors to sit at their offices in order to look better.
Oh shit son, give me their number and I'll take the first flight to Japan for my employment.
haha my first paid job in china was to "wear a suit and pose as an architect" at a meeting. got paid in cash for the day. not bad...
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
I'm Chinese/Vietnamese American. I've been to Japan, China and Taiwan and have family there. It's not a matter of PC vs non-PC; there's a lot of Asian stereotypes that are more truth than fiction. But Asians hating westerners? You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't try and tell me what my culture is about you tool.
Oh please. Asian doesn't see any hate towards white people in Asia? You must know hell of alot about it then. None hasn't been saying anything about all the Asians hating westerns. The fact is that there is places in Asia where people doesn't like white people. It's same in everywhere, some people doesn't like other people if they are different race.
And no, I'm not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons. This went off-topic, but just had to clear out some facts. peace~
So 'in some parts of Asia, Asians hate white people' translates to tester leaving the team because TLO is coming? That is where this original discussion spawned and the point of this thread, by the way.
Get over yourself; the world doesn't revolve around whites. TLO going to Korea didn't send the entire country into panic or some shit. Believe it or not, people CAN leave teams for reasons other than racism.
On August 23 2010 22:46 junkacc wrote: - 이번 GSL의 유력한 우승 후보 중 하나다. ▲ 우승을 할 수 있다고 생각하고 있다. 그래도 공성전에서 우승을 하기는 했지만 토너먼트는 어떻게 될지 모른다. 단판 토너먼트가 아니라 다행이기는 하지만, 내가 그 동안 여러 방송을 통해서 알려져있기 때문에 걱정이다. 스타2는 실력 차이가 많이 나더라도 이길 수 있는 게임이다. 스타1은 그렇지 못한데, 스타2는 전략이 다양하다. 불의의 전략을 조심해야 할 것 같다.
You are one of the favorites to take out the GSL I think I can win. Although I won the 공성전 (king of the hill?), I'm not too sure about tournaments. Although I'm glad it won't be single-match games, I'm concerned that I've become known too well through many broadcasts. SC2 is a game where anyone can win even if the skill level is very wide. BW is not like that, but SC2 has many strategies. One must be careful of cheese.
Tester sums up my feelings nicely about SC2~
The beauty about picking your quotes is that you can make it seem like anyone agrees with you! The interview on the whole makes it seem like he feels that's only true because it's a new game that's being played mostly by amateur gamers at the moment, not because it's an inferior game. He makes it clear that when professionals pop on over it's going to become fiercely hard, which is the sign of a great competitive game.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
I'm Chinese/Vietnamese American. I've been to Japan, China and Taiwan and have family there. It's not a matter of PC vs non-PC; there's a lot of Asian stereotypes that are more truth than fiction. But Asians hating westerners? You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't try and tell me what my culture is about you tool.
Oh please. Asian doesn't see any hate towards white people in Asia? You must know hell of alot about it then. None hasn't been saying anything about all the Asians hating westerns. The fact is that there is places in Asia where people doesn't like white people. It's same in everywhere, some people doesn't like other people if they are different race.
And no, I'm not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons. This went off-topic, but just had to clear out some facts. peace~
So 'in some parts of Asia, Asians hate white people' translates to tester leaving the team because TLO is coming? That is where this original discussion spawned and the point of this thread, by the way.
Get over yourself; the world doesn't revolve around whites. TLO going to Korea didn't send the entire country into panic or some shit. Believe it or not, people CAN leave teams for reasons other than racism.
Cant you read? As i clearly said, im not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons or that is the reason they left the team. I'm only talking about racism between Asians and whites, but seems that you really can't read properly. And if you would've read the whole post, you would have noticed the last sentence.
Get your head from your ass and start reading what people say to you. But really, lets not talk about this in this thread. It went horribly off-topic already.
Sad to see both of these great players quit oGs. I really liked seeing them in action in the events that were broadcasted. Tester, the hope of Protoss worldwide and Cool, the best zerg worldwide =(
Grettin, I believe you're making a fool of yourself and I strongly recommend you stop your idiotic argument right there... Stop pretending to understand the world you don't know about.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
I'm Chinese/Vietnamese American. I've been to Japan, China and Taiwan and have family there. It's not a matter of PC vs non-PC; there's a lot of Asian stereotypes that are more truth than fiction. But Asians hating westerners? You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't try and tell me what my culture is about you tool.
Oh please. Asian doesn't see any hate towards white people in Asia? You must know hell of alot about it then. None hasn't been saying anything about all the Asians hating westerns. The fact is that there is places in Asia where people doesn't like white people. It's same in everywhere, some people doesn't like other people if they are different race.
And no, I'm not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons. This went off-topic, but just had to clear out some facts. peace~
So 'in some parts of Asia, Asians hate white people' translates to tester leaving the team because TLO is coming? That is where this original discussion spawned and the point of this thread, by the way.
Get over yourself; the world doesn't revolve around whites. TLO going to Korea didn't send the entire country into panic or some shit. Believe it or not, people CAN leave teams for reasons other than racism.
Cant you read? As i clearly said, im not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons or that is the reason they left the team. I'm only talking about racism between Asians and whites, but seems that you really can't read properly. And if you would've read the whole post, you would have noticed the last sentence.
Get your head from your ass and start reading what people say to you. But really, lets not talk about this in this thread. It went horribly off-topic already.
So all you can argue is semantics apparently; I'll bite: Read my second post and tell me where I said NO Asians hate Whites. Which brings up the question of why you even bothered to post in the first place? Yes every country has racists. Thanks for enlightening us. My entire argument was that Tester leaving the team for reasons of racism were laughable conjecture.
If you don't disagree, then stop arguing for the sake of arguing you childish wench.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Some East Asian cultures tend to place emphasis on mutual exclusivity in the workplace to their own people. Not sure if SK does this, but I know many businesses in Japan and China don't hire foreigners.
Yes, let's treat all East Asians as one giant entity with no free will or individuality. Asians left their team, the white man is moving in, it must be because the Asians hate the white man. No other reason for quitting a team, nope.
Grow up. Asian cultures aren't as liberal as western ones are. Just because something is PC doesn't make it true.
I'm Chinese/Vietnamese American. I've been to Japan, China and Taiwan and have family there. It's not a matter of PC vs non-PC; there's a lot of Asian stereotypes that are more truth than fiction. But Asians hating westerners? You have no idea what you're talking about, so don't try and tell me what my culture is about you tool.
Oh please. Asian doesn't see any hate towards white people in Asia? You must know hell of alot about it then. None hasn't been saying anything about all the Asians hating westerns. The fact is that there is places in Asia where people doesn't like white people. It's same in everywhere, some people doesn't like other people if they are different race.
And no, I'm not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons. This went off-topic, but just had to clear out some facts. peace~
So 'in some parts of Asia, Asians hate white people' translates to tester leaving the team because TLO is coming? That is where this original discussion spawned and the point of this thread, by the way.
Get over yourself; the world doesn't revolve around whites. TLO going to Korea didn't send the entire country into panic or some shit. Believe it or not, people CAN leave teams for reasons other than racism.
Cant you read? As i clearly said, im not saying that Tester or Cool are this type of persons or that is the reason they left the team. I'm only talking about racism between Asians and whites, but seems that you really can't read properly. And if you would've read the whole post, you would have noticed the last sentence.
Get your head from your ass and start reading what people say to you. But really, lets not talk about this in this thread. It went horribly off-topic already.
So all you can argue is semantics apparently; I'll bite: Read my second post and tell me where I said NO Asians hate Whites. Which brings up the question of why you even bothered to post in the first place? Yes every country has racists. Thanks for enlightening us. My entire argument was that Tester leaving the team for reasons of racism were laughable conjecture.
If you don't disagree, then stop arguing for the sake of arguing you childish wench.
Biohazard presented that thought, Grettin pointed out it was purely speculation. It is, and the generelization about racism is true (having in mind it's only a generelization) and related to the speculation Biohazard presented.
Grettin is not out of line, you are getting overly hostile though. Don't know why you think you need to be defensive about this, jlig.
"SC2 is a game where anyone can win even if the skill level is very wide. BW is not like that" --Cool's interview
unfortunately this has become the case. not going to qq but i do wish that skill was more evident in SC2. all the auto everything has really evened out the playing field.
On August 25 2010 02:20 DarkSeerTurbo wrote: "SC2 is a game where anyone can win even if the skill level is very wide. BW is not like that" --Cool's interview
unfortunately this has become the case. not going to qq but i do wish that skill was more evident in SC2. all the auto everything has really evened out the playing field.
If you read the entire interview, you'd know that he meant that everyone playing SC2 is relatively new to it, not that it requires less skill because of the game itself.
On August 25 2010 01:54 SuperGnu wrote: The 2 most racist countries in the world is Southafrica(no not the white ppl there even if they are to) and Japan.
maybe cause the first had apartheid and the second atomic bomb drops ? just maybe .
furthemore how is possible for a player who joins international tournaments and gives reviews to western dudes ( tester ) to be that racists.
Maybe the ones who mention this are , so they tend to think this way .
Too harsh training regime. Takes away the fun of the game which apparently these two didn't like. If being able to spend the hours of the day any way they feel like is more important than staying in a team then they made the right decision.
it really could be just as they say it is. maybe they just didnt want the hardcore pressure and training hours of living in a team house.
just wanted to enjoy it
On August 25 2010 01:54 SuperGnu wrote: The 2 most racist countries in the world is Southafrica(no not the white ppl there even if they are to) and Japan.
Lol. I'm South African and I really have to ask - have you ever even been there? Or are you just talking out your ass like a 'tard. My money is on the latter.
On August 25 2010 01:54 SuperGnu wrote: The 2 most racist countries in the world is Southafrica(no not the white ppl there even if they are to) and Japan.
maybe cause the first had apartheid and the second atomic bomb drops ? just maybe .
furthemore how is possible for a player who joins international tournaments and gives reviews to western dudes ( tester ) to be that racists.
Maybe the ones who mention this are , so they tend to think this way .
It was just a speculation. It doesn't make you racist.
But even Spunky said in his interview with Liquid´ that oGs team members would 'rather' have Koreans to practise with them than foreigners, but they don't have anything against it if they come to practise with them.
Most oGs members are looking forward to it, but some still think foreigners are really behind in game level compared to Koreans so would rather just have other Koreans join the team, as opposed to foreigners. This shouldn’t be interpreted as racism, it’s just a mindset over here.
lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
On August 23 2010 19:55 AyJay wrote: Are they afraid of TLO? :o
Maybe they disagree with the teams decision to let foreigners into their house? MAYBE. "Playing more freely" doesn't really sound like a real reason to me.
The hell are you basing that on?
Just in case you didn't know... the TL team (foreigners) are in Korea with the oGs team. spunky is pretty political but it looks like some oGs team members don't like having foreigners around.
So given that your players know that soon they'll be in the same team house with Liquid, what have their reactions been like in general?
Well I am pretty sure the TL guys are very excited. Most oGs members are looking forward to it, but some still think foreigners are really behind in game level compared to Koreans so would rather just have other Koreans join the team, as opposed to foreigners. This shouldn’t be interpreted as racism, it’s just a mindset over here. However, since I've been close with all foreign players and Koreans for 10 years now, I know for a fact that this alliance will be the benefit for both TL and oGs
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
I don't see why players that compete against each other should be obligated to make the competition better.
For example if tester creates some godly protoss build, why should he want to go show that to other protoss players just so they can regurgitate it and then act like they are good.
RTS lost it's innovative component long ago, now everything is on replay and you can watch the exact actions players take.
A lot of people appear better than they are because they can copy streamlined builds and win a good percentage of the time based on the rock paper scissor element of sc2.
In BW you had people trying to copy, but because the skill ceiling was a bit higher there were just things a player could not copy from someone like jaedong or flash because they simply can't play at that level.
It was just a speculation. It doesn't make you racist.
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
Your 'speculation' breeds more ignorance. This thread is beyond ridiculous. Please name me a source that stated these players left due to racism. Otherwise, stop making wild conjecture based on your anglo-centric perceptions about Asia.
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
I don't see why players that compete against each other should be obligated to make the competition better.
For example if tester creates some godly protoss build, why should he want to go show that to other protoss players just so they can regurgitate it and then act like they are good.
RTS lost it's innovative component long ago, now everything is on replay and you can watch the exact actions players take.
A lot of people appear better than they are because they can copy streamlined builds and win a good percentage of the time based on the rock paper scissor element of sc2.
In BW you had people trying to copy, but because the skill ceiling was a bit higher there were just things a player could not copy from someone like jaedong or flash because they simply can't play at that level.
The "skill ceiling" is based on how good players actually do in a game. It can be heightened infinitely. At the current state, players have not spent enough time training in SC2 to actually heighten the ceiling. Thus, more people are able to perform what is considered 'good'; near the ceiling. Exactly the same was true when the original SC came out.
I disagree with your thoughts about competition. Sure, Starcraft as a game is about competition to some extent. Yet it is also about a culture. Players learning from each other is good for the culture. Players who are extremely good will be able to stand out from the rest, because that is what we mean by "being good".
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
Your 'speculation' breeds more ignorance. This thread is beyond ridiculous. Please name me a source that stated these players left due to racism. Otherwise, stop making wild conjecture based on your anglo-centric perceptions about Asia.
I'm sorry if you got offended somehow by these speculations. And just to let you know, i like Asia, i love it's culture and people. But facts are facts, you gotta deal with them.
Even if they left because foreigners were "invading" their house I still don't think it's pure racism, foreigners usually have a really hard time getting used to their training system therefore being troublesome to everyone else in the same environment, it is a cultural difference and some people think the gain is not worth the trouble. Although the oGs's manager and captain agree that it is worth the exchanging of experiences.
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
I don't see why players that compete against each other should be obligated to make the competition better.
For example if tester creates some godly protoss build, why should he want to go show that to other protoss players just so they can regurgitate it and then act like they are good.
RTS lost it's innovative component long ago, now everything is on replay and you can watch the exact actions players take.
A lot of people appear better than they are because they can copy streamlined builds and win a good percentage of the time based on the rock paper scissor element of sc2.
In BW you had people trying to copy, but because the skill ceiling was a bit higher there were just things a player could not copy from someone like jaedong or flash because they simply can't play at that level.
The "skill ceiling" is based on how good players actually do in a game. It can be heightened infinitely. At the current state, players have not spent enough time training in SC2 to actually heighten the ceiling. Thus, more people are able to perform what is considered 'good'; near the ceiling. Exactly the same was true when the original SC came out.
I disagree with your thoughts about competition. Sure, Starcraft as a game is about competition to some extent. Yet it is also about a culture. Players learning from each other is good for the culture. Players who are extremely good will be able to stand out from the rest, because that is what we mean by "being good".
I really like your insight on that and I never thought of it that way, but it's completely true. If you asked people what they thought the skill ceiling of SC1 was when it first came out versus today, I'm sure they would never expect how highly technical and execution-heavy it evolved into. I would argue Boxer was the one who really pushed the envelope and completely changed the way players thought about competitive StarCraft.
It was just a speculation. It doesn't make you racist.
On August 26 2010 00:36 zerg4hire wrote: lol fruitseller and SKs both top players in korea. sersiously, Fruitsellre makes zerg look op.
From their persepective, i guess he doesnt feel like he wants to play with the foreigners. especially teaching or showing them the techniques they've studied all this time.
think of it this way, its like 1 asian dude going into a school full of white people but this time its reversed, now get it ? why cant the world be a better place, just stop hating on each other.
Your 'speculation' breeds more ignorance. This thread is beyond ridiculous. Please name me a source that stated these players left due to racism. Otherwise, stop making wild conjecture based on your anglo-centric perceptions about Asia.
I'm sorry if you got offended somehow by these speculations. And just to let you know, i like Asia, i love it's culture and people. But facts are facts, you gotta deal with them.
But you aren't offering any facts????
How on earth could you say 'facts are facts' while being called out on making wild conjecture without any supporting... errr... facts?
On August 26 2010 01:42 Grettin wrote: I'm sorry if you got offended somehow by these speculations. And just to let you know, i like Asia, i love it's culture and people. But facts are facts, you gotta deal with them.
Facts can be supported by evidence. Can your provide evidence for your claims? If not, then it's not fact, but rather your opinion and speculation which means you probably shouldn't be calling it a "fact".
On August 26 2010 01:42 Grettin wrote: I'm sorry if you got offended somehow by these speculations. And just to let you know, i like Asia, i love it's culture and people. But facts are facts, you gotta deal with them.
Facts can be supported by evidence. Can your provide evidence for your claims? If not, then it's not fact, but rather your opinion and speculation which means you probably shouldn't be calling it a "fact".
You are right, im sorry calling it a fact but showing no source. Infact i only have a personal or family/friend related experience (Or read about others experience in a multiple sites), and its hard to point out. And i really can't be arsed to try find any evidence from the internet about it. None said for sure this whole Tester and Cool leaving oGs was anyway related to racism.
My guess is they feel oGs recurite too many player recently. and the overall quality of the team has been lower. Just a through, i have no base on this.