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In a text interview with Swedish e-sport news site Fragbite the Swedish player SjoW reveals that he won't be competing in the next season of GSL Code A even though he is qualified since he managed to get to ro16 last season.
Seems that he will return home to Sweden instead.
Google Translate of the interview (which in general is about his stay in Korea): http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://www.fragbite.se/?newsID=18789
Original source (Swedish): http://www.fragbite.se/?newsID=18789
edit: SjoW has commented in the thread:
Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
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I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
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Too bad was hoping to see how much he has improved during his stay in Korea
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Little sad, but I think it was the right decision.
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Is it just based purely on the money and him trying to win EU tournaments instead? I wish more people would take NaNiwa and SaSe's approach and just try to become beasts that can actually compete at the top level.
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GSL won't like that. But probably the right decision. Would have been awesome to see another foreigner make it into code S.
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was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad.
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
How does the code A system work with people qualifiying but leaving every season? Do they just draft in extras from preliminaries or whatever the system is?
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something.
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On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something.
But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long?
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Reason why? Language/cultural issues? Money problems? Mental issues?
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What a shame! Foreigners fighting in the GSL ftw!
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Poor player that he kicked out from Code A. Gotta go through the whole freaking Code A qualifiers over again. What a dickmove. Srsly bad system they got.
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On October 11 2011 03:13 Achilles306 wrote: GSL won't like that. But probably the right decision. Would have been awesome to see another foreigner make it into code S.
Should he lose on purpose so he can leave the country ? that makes no sense at all.
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Sad to see him go. Not much more to say about it.
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On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something.
Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. fully agree with you there.
however i'm sure players like naniwa, sase and tod will change that soon so that not every player is leaving
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
I really agree with you. I don't think any of the Koreans or Foreigners showed anything special on their first GSL. I have this feeling that foreigners are kind of abusing the Code A ticket they get from events like MLG and instead of going. I'd like to see what Naniwa or Fenix can pull out if they stick to training in Korea.
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No, I demand that players not be real people with feelings and things. Their purpose is to serve me and produce ESPORTS.
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wasnt it like this in 1st hand planed ? i mean i could not see him stay there for a very long time.
to bad he was one of the few players who could be able to be top code S but nice to have him back
GSL would be way more international if koreans would speak at least a bit english, as it is its so unbelievable hard living in a country and nearly no one can understand you its not even like you cant speak an europe language you cant learn it fast etc ..
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. i have to agree. i mean...sure its just a experience for the players but i think alot of players lack the right mindset :/
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On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long?
Agreed.
Atleast in Drewbie's case he's only there for a "bootcamp" as far as I know, so he's expected to return home. I'm sure its a fantastic experience for a player to attend for a single season, get a taste of Korea and the pro gaming life over there, but I'm not sure how its financially worth it for the team.
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On October 11 2011 03:17 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. i have to agree. i mean...sure its just a experience for the players but i think alot of players lack the right mindset :/
so? hes young, how could he know what it would be like to live in another country if hes never done it before.
seems alot of people like to sit there with their own mistakes and experiences and judge others who havent had the chance to make any mistakes yet.
he can be proud that he didnt have to leave due to being a complete failure, ro16 code a is nothing to be ashamed of.
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What has been the best, and worst of your stay in Korea? [...] Worst is probably because I got tired of the food.
so the reason he left is because he didn't like the food lol. jk.
i can totally understand his decision.
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United States4796 Posts
On October 11 2011 03:13 StuartLove wrote: was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad.
I might have to disagree with you.
As good as NaNiwa and SaSe are they didn't make it past first round of GSL. :/
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Maka should get a free pass back in
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
They are not in this world to live up to your expectations, they can do whatever they want.
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Seems like MLG is always getting the better end of the deal with GSL. Now MLG has koreans paying their own way there through the open bracket as well as the invites because of the massive fan base in the US. Meanwhile we're lucky to have a few foreign players in code A every season and only HuK in code S.
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I know you're excited about page hits, but here's the key line: "After IEM I will attend ESWC and then return home for Dreamhack Winter but after that I think that I will go back to Korea."
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On October 11 2011 03:12 YoiChiBow wrote: Is it just based purely on the money and him trying to win EU tournaments instead? I wish more people would take NaNiwa and SaSe's approach and just try to become beasts that can actually compete at the top level. That's because gold falls from heaven, right ?
TL-netizens aren't really aware of the real world >>
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On October 11 2011 03:22 Wren wrote:I know you're excited about page hits, but here's the key line: "After IEM I will attend ESWC and then return home for Dreamhack Winter but after that I think that I will go back to Korea."
Yea the key being "I will go back to Korea"
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Atleast SaSe is doing it right.
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Who are we to question his decision? It's his life and if he didn't feel like staying in Korea would bring happiness, what more is there to say?
edit: and if he's going back to Korea, what is there to worry about?
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He stated the following after winning IeSF:
Looking ahead to IEM I am not sure if this has given me a boost as the opponents here were weak but having practised in Korea for a while now I think that I am in good shape. After IEM I will attend ESWC and then return home for Dreamhack Winter but after that I think that I will go back to Korea."
Maybe he just doesn't wont to fly around the world every second week. Everyone can see how this affects your play if you look at Huk.
As far as I know Code A was just a bonus, as he went to Korea to improve and not to play in the GSL.
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On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_shock
Usually gets worse during the 3-6 month period in a new culture/country. And if he never fell in love with the culture during the "honeymoon" phase then it would only get worse.
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On October 11 2011 03:22 thOr6136 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. They are not in this world to live up to your expectations, they can do whatever they want.
And we can comment on their decisions however we want.
I wish Sjow would stay. Seems like most foreign pros don't have the stomach or mindset for Korea.
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Possibility of making money in other tournaments > Staying in Korea and probably not advancing
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On October 11 2011 03:23 Thorakh wrote: Who are we to question his decision? It's his life and if he didn't feel like staying in Korea would bring happiness, what more is there to say?
edit: and if he's going back to Korea, what is there to worry about?
Not questioning his decision, I'm questioning the team's decision to send him over to Korea for such a short time. I'm wondering wouldn't it benefit them to send someone who intends to stay for a longer time like HuK?
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On October 11 2011 03:13 StuartLove wrote: was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad.
Sjows mechanics and multitasking is honestly pretty bad compared to many other players. However he has fantastic decision making, which actually allows him to compete with players with far superior mechanics.
So no, Sjow is not pretty bad. With good mechanics and multitasking I bet he would be among the very top of foreigners. Which is why I was quite excited for him going to Korea, what better place to improve those two skills? Thus this news is quite disappointing to me, I would have liked to see what he could do with Korean training.
Still as it is Sjow is someone I at least expect to be at the very least among top 10 foreigners at just about any event he enters, and not at all surprised to see him among top 5 foreigners at any event. Calling him pretty bad in comparison to naniwa and sase is not fair at all.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. Similar to Koreans playing at one MLG then leaving again.
Although that's a bad comparison because the committment from the non-Koreans is much larger obvously (Staying 5-6 weeks compared to staying a single weekend). So much respect to the players who do this.
Welcome Home, Sjow.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36659 Posts
So after reading this thread,
I am thinking that:
Sjow did not go home because he wanted to leave Korea, he left to participate in other more important tournaments to him.
And he's been quoted saying he's probably going to return to Korea....
So let's stop the SjOw hate, and appreciate what he's brought on to the sc2 scene
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On October 11 2011 03:23 Neelia wrote:He stated the following after winning IeSF: Show nested quote +Looking ahead to IEM I am not sure if this has given me a boost as the opponents here were weak but having practised in Korea for a while now I think that I am in good shape. After IEM I will attend ESWC and then return home for Dreamhack Winter but after that I think that I will go back to Korea." Maybe he just doesn't wont to fly around the world every second week. Everyone can see how this affects your play if you look at Huk. As far as I know Code A was just a bonus, as he went to Korea to improve and not to play in the GSL. I can respect that. Playing in Code A is a big commitment with very little financial reward. If he intends to go back to korea after playing in some international tournaments, all the power to him.
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On October 11 2011 03:12 YoiChiBow wrote: Is it just based purely on the money and him trying to win EU tournaments instead? I wish more people would take NaNiwa and SaSe's approach and just try to become beasts that can actually compete at the top level. Don't exclude Huk and Jinro from that list!
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On October 11 2011 03:13 StuartLove wrote: was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad.
SaSe didn't qualify, NaNiwa got knocked out first round and Sjow only just got knocked out 2nd round + the opponents he played were better.. and your saying he is bad
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If Koreans are participating in as much foreign tournaments as they can to win money, then I absolutely do not see anything wrong with Sjow leaving Korea.
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On October 11 2011 03:18 Poyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long? Agreed. Atleast in Drewbie's case he's only there for a "bootcamp" as far as I know, so he's expected to return home. I'm sure its a fantastic experience for a player to attend for a single season, get a taste of Korea and the pro gaming life over there, but I'm not sure how its financially worth it for the team.
If it wasnt worth it then they woudnt have sent him. Unless the team is stupid.
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On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something.
It's almost as if you are implying that they had no idea this is what they signed up for...
There's a reason Idra was the only foreigner who played in Korea, and it wasn't just because he can play the game. He was actually willing to train their way to be their kind of good.
"Oh it's so tough, I don't speak their language" QQ "Life is hard I miss my family" QQ
Sorry man but if you don't want to sacrifice, then don't put up a front like you actually want too.
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I can't see the whole going to korea automatically makes you better POV. especially as most of these players go to the GOM house and are surrounded by the same foreigners they've been playing in foreign competitions and on ladder for months. If they went over to train with korean teams sure, but playing in the GOM house isn't going to help anyone except giving you a better connection to the korea server. If he's not even practicing with the top korean players, he might as well come home and play in all the tournaments here to make more money, as opposed to sitting in a foreigner filled house playing one tournament a month.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
True but sad. TT
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
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Denmark116 Posts
exactly as what i expected.
as always ^^
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I don't think sjow had any plan to stay in korea long term, it's not really a big surprise IMO. His plan was probably to train on korean ladder, play code A and IESF (turned out pretty good for him ^^) and then go back to sweden. I don't understand why people are shocked :s.
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On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession...........
obnoxious.
Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does.
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On October 11 2011 03:20 DivinO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 StuartLove wrote: was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad. I might have to disagree with you. As good as NaNiwa and SaSe are they didn't make it past first round of GSL. :/
oGsMC is code B, wanna tell me maybe that he is badder as sjow?
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This is sad However I don't think we can jump to conclusions about his motivations/reasons for leaving early. I'm just not sure why a player who wishes to perform and play at his best would leave korea after getting such a unique opportunity, it's a shame really.
Best of luck to Sjow, and I hope he keeps improving and returns to Korea at some point to hone his skills!
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
This. I was rooting for SjoW to improve a lot and this came off as a disappointment.
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zzzzzz what's the point of going for a month or 2?? prob wasn't happy so I understand that I guess :/
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Its ok, he is going back to Korea after Dreamhack
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On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does.
You dont need to learn a new language to be in a foreign country...
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There are only 3 possible reasons a foreigner player with a GSL seed would decide to leave:
1) Not adjusting to the culture and/or not willing to make an effort.
2) Financial decisions. If you are sure you're not gonna make enough money according to your personal goals, leaving Korea for "easier" money seems like the only way to go.
3) Extra-gaming concerns, like family, health, whatever.
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On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. epic sarcasm. I'd liked for him to stay there simply because he'd obviously improve but he knows whats best for himself.
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It is sad to have one less foreigner to root for in GSL. Best of luck to Sjow.
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It's perfectly understandable that he left imho. The reason you'd stay in Korea for a while is just to get the tips and tricks you need to improve, the rest comes with practice; and you can practice on the EU ladder just fine. Sure, the player skill standard might be a bit lower, but if you know what you need to improve and if you focus on it, no matter what opponent you are playing it will improve.
So to sum it up, I don't really mind that he left Korea, I just feel sorry about him leaving the GSL. Seeing another foreigner in Code A would've been nice, but alas, gl hf Sjow.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long?
He got a few months of practice, that's probably enough to make him a better player, so he can perform better in tournaments elsewhere.
You know, it's pretty hard to justify staying in korea to play code A when you could be making a lot more money elsewhere.
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Can't say I diagree with his decision. With ESWC coming up in two weeks, MLG Providence after that (assuming SjoW goes there; he'll be top16 in ranking points definatly so his bracket should be good) and then DreamHack Winter would make for an insane month of travelling. As we can see with HuK's results when he had that insane month the loss of practice time that way travelling that much is really detrimental for your performance.
On October 11 2011 03:18 Poyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long? Agreed. Atleast in Drewbie's case he's only there for a "bootcamp" as far as I know, so he's expected to return home. I'm sure its a fantastic experience for a player to attend for a single season, get a taste of Korea and the pro gaming life over there, but I'm not sure how its financially worth it for the team. To be honest with the exception of Naniwa and Fenix every single foreigner who took the GSL Code A invite did that to practice for a month in Korea with the GSL Match being just a bonus. Don't for a second think they actually go there for the money: the amount of money in the Korean scene is just pathetic when compared to the European scene where SjoW can make more money in a week with online cups then if he would win Code A.
What is actually the difference between taking a GSL Code A seed from GOM that they pay for instead of being sent by your team if the target is the same?
On October 11 2011 03:21 SolidMoose wrote: Maka should get a free pass back in Hell no. Maka threw that match the second he decided to completly shit over SjoW and then lost the remaining games. If anything he should be barred from the Qualifiers next season again to make room for a player that actually plays to win instead of one that plays to shit on his opponent.
On October 11 2011 03:13 Cyro wrote: How does the code A system work with people qualifiying but leaving every season? Do they just draft in extras from preliminaries or whatever the system is? They change the format of the Qualifiers a bit to provide another spot. Can also happen that they give another foreigner an invite who is based in Korea but outside the MLG Exchange system, for example Sase's invite this season.
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On October 11 2011 03:20 DivinO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 StuartLove wrote: was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad. I might have to disagree with you. As good as NaNiwa and SaSe are they didn't make it past first round of GSL. :/ They play protoss.
I also don't understand why he'd go and tease us for just a season then go home. Foreigners need a diff attitude if they're going to win anything.
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Jeffrey, Choya will miss you!!!!
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SjoW fighting!
Some of the comments here are so out of touch with reality I don't even...
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Too bad to hear :-/ So many people would give their extra kidney for a chance like that!
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On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does.
Doesn't have to do with learning the language, has to do with the giant transition from western to eastern society. the shock of it all, of not being near his parents and friends and so on. Sleeping in a new bed in a new country, eating new food, so on.
stupidity.
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I wonder if this has anything to do with how isolated you are in Korea playing SC2 along with the difficulties of practicing alone in the foreigner house. From how many have described it, it's hard to compete with the combined effort in team houses when your only real practice comes from the Korean ladder.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
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SjoW I will still love you no matter what you do.
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Should let alicia take his spot.
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Well, it could be viewed similarly to that Red Bull-LAN. It's a short, intense practice period where you pick up new ideas, and then you go apply them in an environment you're comfortable with. I also get the impression that players who have experienced the practice environment in Korea they know what it takes to win against a player that almost never makes mistakes, and even if the competition isn't quite as strong you can still apply the methods learned. For example, maybe you don't land a drop that was technically spotted, even if the opponent doesn't react.
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On October 11 2011 03:40 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does. You dont need to learn a new language to be in a foreign country...
If you want to get by and no one speaks english in the country you are moving to you sort of do. I think people underestimate what it takes to adjust to live in a country where you can't communicate with anyone when you're used to at least being able to have some form of, however basic, communication with everyone in english.
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edit op?
he plans on going back to korea after couple of foreign tournaments.
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maybe meant high masters? instead of high diamonds?
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
Funny how fast a player owes the community something. I mean its not like they live with complete strangers all the time long, with language barriers, "bad" accomodation, etc. But hey, they get a cup of rice everyday and have a chance to win 1000 dollars once a month, when their proving that their better than all the koreans who train 14 hours a day.
Every single player going to Korea is doing this because he loves esports. I mean its a huge thing, and they deserve to get some respect for going to korea at the first place. So please dont fukkin blame them for coming back after 1 (2?) months..
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On October 11 2011 03:13 StuartLove wrote: was woundered why he even went there.
compared to naniwa and sase he seems pretty bad.
You're part of like the 95% of people who say that, then the next MLG rolls around and people are all like "OH RIGHT Sjow nerdstomps errrrrrday"
everybody's acting like they forgot about d- sjow
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
And they (foreigners) are probably tired of going to Korea to play only in GSL...
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I wish he would have stayed there for a little while more :[ But Sjow knows best! <3
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On October 11 2011 03:39 Alejandrisha wrote: zzzzzz what's the point of going for a month or 2?? prob wasn't happy so I understand that I guess :/
I think IdrA only plans on going for a month or two, alot of practice can be accomplished in that time. I think in that time you can get an adequate grasp of the Korean metagame, and then bring it back to the International scene and apply it inside of the tournaments here. From sjows point of view, I completely understand.
Even the top foreigners arn't going to Korea and expecting to win the GSL, so as soon as you feel you have learned enough to be successful, it is time to show off your new skills. On that note I don't think happiness has too much part in the decision, but even if it does, he will still retain everything he picked up while he was there.
Good luck Sjow.
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I always like SjoW and his mindset, he learned some new good things over there that he will take home.
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On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long? You definitely improve staying there. Think of Fenix and how much noticeably better he got from the beginning of his stay and more recently.
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I wouldn't blame GSL for eliminating foreigner spots for people who just bail at the last minute.
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Is anyone else anticipating the beta for this year? It is really surprising how they are teasing us like this with completed new units xD
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So I guess the Liquid guys and a few other foreigners are the only individuals who are really taking Korea seriously and not treating it like some vacation. It's a shame that Sjow wasted a Code A spot and makes the foreigner community look bad in the eyes of GSL. It's almost to the point where GSL should reconsider giving out Code A spots to foreigners because there just taking up space now. And for the people who say, "well why don't you do it and see how hard it is," being a progamer is not my livelihood and profession, and its a shame that people like Naniwa, Huk, and Jinro, no matter what you think of their skill, are the big minority who are willing to push and deal with the inconveniences and hardships that come with having to live in an entirely new country.
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France12466 Posts
On October 11 2011 04:05 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. Funny how fast a player owes the community something. I mean its not like they live with complete strangers all the time long, with language barriers, "bad" accomodation, etc. But hey, they get a cup of rice everyday and have a chance to win 1000 dollars once a month, when their proving that their better than all the koreans who train 14 hours a day. Every single player going to Korea is doing this because he loves esports. I mean its a huge thing, and they deserve to get some respect for going to korea at the first place. So please dont fukkin blame them for coming back after 1 (2?) months.. It's perfectly fine that you don't want to live in korea etc, the problem is that there are koreans training their heart out to even be in code A, and what when they see some non korean being top 12 in an MLG after being seeded in pool auto qualified in code A, leaving after winning his first match? I think it's what people are uncomfortable with, it's obvious that not everybody will want to live in korea. edit : I dunno which exact rank he was it was more of a random example
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I think that is the correct decision for him. He was just too short compared to his level. Despite the fact that he beat Maka, he is just not on par.
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On October 11 2011 04:10 BryanSC wrote: So I guess the Liquid guys and a few other foreigners are the only individuals who are really taking Korea seriously and not treating it like some vacation. It's a shame that Sjow wasted a Code A spot and makes the foreigner community look bad in the eyes of GSL. It's almost to the point where GSL should reconsider giving out Code A spots to foreigners because there just taking up space now. And for the people who say, "well why don't you do it and see how hard it is," being a progamer is not my livelihood and profession, and its a shame that people like Naniwa, Huk, and Jinro, no matter what you think of their skill, are the big minority who are willing to push and deal with the inconveniences and hardships that come with having to live in an entirely new country.
If you don't know what its like being a progamer, why do you assume that Korea is the best place to make your home. It seems to me that Destiny is a progamer from his own house, as is White-Ra, and Grubby, and countless other great foreigner professionals.
Living in Korea does not equal pro gaming status, some people aspire to travel there, others do not.
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these guys are getting free tickets into gsl something most koreans dream of getting into then they just throw it away...
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On October 11 2011 03:49 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does. Doesn't have to do with learning the language, has to do with the giant transition from western to eastern society. the shock of it all, of not being near his parents and friends and so on. Sleeping in a new bed in a new country, eating new food, so on. stupidity.
Well there's that, but Sjow's main problem I think is his low APM. The rest of his skills are good enough to throw down with, dare I say any korean? I mean he can go toe to toe with MMA and such with his slow hand speed.
I think he can improve almost just as well in Europe as in Korea to be honest, as his main concern should be mechanics.
Also the price for winning code A, which is probably as hard to do as to win MLG providence, is a pat on the back and like a 100 bucks. Not worth it.
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On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long?
Agreed - People are saying "wtf do you think they're emotionless robots who don't get homesick"
- Do you not think that they consider that before going in the first place? It's safe to assume that they know they're going into a foreign culture with a different language before they go!
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he won the iesf or something, i guess he decided it was good enough.
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I don't think he ever intended to move to korea, he just went there to practice for a while. It's quite different.
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On October 11 2011 03:49 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does. Doesn't have to do with learning the language, has to do with the giant transition from western to eastern society. the shock of it all, of not being near his parents and friends and so on. Sleeping in a new bed in a new country, eating new food, so on. stupidity. I'm so confused which side you are arguing for.
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Seems those guys didn't really think their decision through. It's like all they think when they decide to go to Korea is "It'll be great. I'll play some fun SC2 and become the greatest gamer of all time."
And then they realize, that it's really really hard work and that they feel lost in a foreign country/society. Everyday's life gets more difficult, you don't understand shit and you're not used to the food etc.
They should really consider these things before they just jump on the next plane to Seoul.
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On October 11 2011 04:23 zimms wrote: Seems those guys didn't really think their decision through. It's like all they think when they decide to go to Korea is "It'll be great. I'll play some fun SC2 and become the greatest gamer of all time."
And then they realize, that it's really really hard work and that they feel lost in a foreign country/society. Everyday's life gets more difficult, you don't understand shit and you're not used to the food etc.
They should really consider these things before they just jump on the next plane to Seoul.
Maybe he didn't go on the plane to move to korea? Maybe he never planned on staying more than a month or two?
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Well, if there's a foreigner who can grind through code A prelims with good % of success it's Sjow. So maybe it's not that big of a deal, not staying just because of a secure code A spot.
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On October 11 2011 04:16 koolaid1990 wrote: these guys are getting free tickets into gsl something most koreans dream of getting into then they just throw it away...
I have to agree it is ridiculous that these foreign players get to come in for one season and leave with no punishments of some type. All korean sc2 players litteraly do dream of getting into the GSL. And when I see things like this happen I just have to think it's hurting e-sports in korea.
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This is a very very good interview, I feel so proud of Sjow realizing this yet many foreign pros may not be aware of currently:
How do you feel that your time in Korea influenced your game?
Have realized that I played way too greedy and take more shortcuts. This is of course important to use against some opponents to win tournaments. But it's important to play safe and stable in order to become a better player.
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bummer, he was the great foreigner hope...
I would have loved to see what kind of skill he could develop with a bit more time over there...
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Sigh :<
Can you edit in the interview given @ Team-Dignitas homepage. It clearly states he's returning to Sweden to participate in upcoming tournaments and then returning to korea.
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sjow isn't bad, he's just slow. which is a huge disadvantage in korea and it seems like he didn't want to change his style. toobad
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On October 11 2011 03:49 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does. Doesn't have to do with learning the language, has to do with the giant transition from western to eastern society. the shock of it all, of not being near his parents and friends and so on. Sleeping in a new bed in a new country, eating new food, so on. stupidity. Oh, I didn't know sjow had an agent who spoke for him, no wonder learning the language of his new residence was [apparently] of no consequence to him.
How do you get off calling me stupid with posts like your own? lol unbelievable
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
Good for you.
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Ive said it all along....Korea is not worth going. You give up so much for so little. There are way too many tournaments online now or even tournaments closer in EU and the US. Only reason everyone gets all hyped up is that its GSL. GSL is not dumb. They are offering all these code A spots to all these tournaments to make their league be the one that all want to be a part of. By doing this they are caliming to be the best. Yes they are the best, but wont last forever plus there are so many tournies now that players DONT NEED to go to korea. Im actually suprised other tournaments havent said...No Ty GSL....we dont need your code A spot. We are the best here and we dont need to be playing seconf fiddle to you guys. The only one that is not kissing bootie to GSL is the NASL. Wether GSL didnt include them or NASL said yeah right we dont need you is up to debate. NASL is the only league that has grab thier CAJONES and said....no GSL....we are not second to you. In the long run the NASL will be the more efficient way to do high level tournaments. You only bring the best of the best to the finals like NASL. GSL knows this and they dont want to lose their hold on SC2. They know they need to make some way to legitimize themselves as the best by bringing foreigners. They know if they include others and bring them then they got them were they want them (league wise). Is it not obvious why so many foreigners leave? Many could tell you that, but i guess they need to see it for themselves. The best example of this is the BLIZZARD CUP. C'mon now. Do you really think the winners of those tournaments are really the best of the best? I mean they are very good but we could actually switch so many of those winners with some from korea GSL. It will be a very good league to see, but i go back to my point. GSL just wants to include all these foreign tournamnets winners to ligitimize themselves as the league of leagues. All these foreig tournaments need to man up and start making their tournaments be the most important to them. They dont need GSL to know that they are good.
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he had already mentioned before going to korea that he wasent going to stay for longer than a month.
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Sometimes i think foreigners are kinda lazy in regards with their training.Look at drewbie for instance,it was told that he was slacking really hard with his pratice.
Of course not all of the foreigners,for instance Grubby,HuK,Jinro,Naniwa, SeleCT and Kitty are praticing their hearts out !!!
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I'm not surprised. He won his ticket into Code A, and has spent some time learning in Korea. Really though, would a pro gamer spend 2-6 months practising and trying to get through Code A... and what was the prize again for Code A? Something like $1300 bucks and a Code S seat? Yeah, that's really worth it. (sarcasm)
While GSL offers some really good spectating, and some views into some decent aggressive play, it is not a business model in which a pro player would likely want to enter and stay for an extended period of time. Two players really make any scratch worth the time, the rest are just hoping to get into the finals.
Any player is better off playing the rest of the world's tournaments. More tourneys = more prize money = better living.
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On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long?
Why not? He said he got better and he got to experience Korea and he beat a korean, what's the problem?
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A little bit short stay, it would have been nice if he at least tried to get further, but I think how the competition is set up and how little money you win for placing first in code A is the biggest reason foreigners don't really want to compete there.
There are 100k competition like IGN, NASL, 25+k competitions Dreamhack winter and summer, TSL, ESCW, 15+k competitions like IEM, MLG, dreamhack invitationals, etc...
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I hope that he goes back to Korea, there is potential in him.
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Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
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Seems like this keeps happening because once they get to Korea they realize that they aren't going to be winning GSL anytime soon (if ever) so there's no reason to even bother trying considering they can make more money with far easier competition elsewhere.
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Keep it up Sjow! All time favotite SC2 player!! Thanks for repping the homeland :D
Btw i hope you will be able to speed up your game abit since ur decisionmaking is awsome :D
Mycket kärlek från Lund!! <3
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It is the best decission since you got there for a few months and then come back a beast and win a ton of cash and get recognition instead of being that foreigner dude who didn't make it to the round of 8 in GSL A.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
It's because there is no money in it and it's incredibly hard to advance in. Also, the payouts are very top-heavy making it impossible for some people to ever win first place, especially foreigners who are less experienced with the GSL. A lot more $$ with foreign tournaments and sponsorships. Couple that with living in a place without your family/friends around with people speaking an entirely different language than you are used to.
Sounds like a pretty smart decision to me.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
I have to agree, you can't expect to be on top without months of practicing considering how behind foreigners are (some more than others obviously but still). Take a look at Naniwa, he says he has to learn the game all over again. It'll take a while before he can compete, but if he has the dedication good for him. It'd be cool to see the foreigners who have the dedication go to Korea, though.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
What a baller.
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Good luck to Sjow!!! Go win those tournaments!
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
Thank god there is one foreigner out there who is willing to go, come back, and go again. its sad to see players go there for one time stands, then leave because they weren't as successful as they had hoped
SjoW hwaiting!!!!
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I understand him very well ^^. If I had been away from home in Korea alone for any period of time after living at home with my parents for my entire life, I would too be really eager to come back. For most people, SC2 is not the most important thing ever, life and family does come first for Sjow it seems.
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On October 11 2011 04:39 Aureknight wrote: Ive said it all along....Korea is not worth going. You give up so much for so little. There are way too many tournaments online now or even tournaments closer in EU and the US. Only reason everyone gets all hyped up is that its GSL. GSL is not dumb. They are offering all these code A spots to all these tournaments to make their league be the one that all want to be a part of. By doing this they are caliming to be the best. Yes they are the best, but wont last forever plus there are so many tournies now that players DONT NEED to go to korea. Im actually suprised other tournaments havent said...No Ty GSL....we dont need your code A spot. We are the best here and we dont need to be playing seconf fiddle to you guys. The only one that is not kissing bootie to GSL is the NASL. Wether GSL didnt include them or NASL said yeah right we dont need you is up to debate. NASL is the only league that has grab thier CAJONES and said....no GSL....we are not second to you. In the long run the NASL will be the more efficient way to do high level tournaments. You only bring the best of the best to the finals like NASL. GSL knows this and they dont want to lose their hold on SC2. They know they need to make some way to legitimize themselves as the best by bringing foreigners. They know if they include others and bring them then they got them were they want them (league wise). Is it not obvious why so many foreigners leave? Many could tell you that, but i guess they need to see it for themselves. The best example of this is the BLIZZARD CUP. C'mon now. Do you really think the winners of those tournaments are really the best of the best? I mean they are very good but we could actually switch so many of those winners with some from korea GSL. It will be a very good league to see, but i go back to my point. GSL just wants to include all these foreign tournamnets winners to ligitimize themselves as the league of leagues. All these foreig tournaments need to man up and start making their tournaments be the most important to them. They dont need GSL to know that they are good.
But to be a dedicated progamer who aspires to be the best ( naniwa, Sase) you have to go to korea to actually gain the skill necessary to beat the koreans. Stephano being the current exeption here. It's totally ok for pros to go to korea just for the training and experience and leave after 1-2 month but saying it's not worth going to korea is really dumb. Because hands down: GSL is still the best league in the world.
On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
Great to hear, gratz for the stealth money you earned for Iesf and hopefully you'll show some amazing things in New York and future tournaments.
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On October 11 2011 04:10 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:05 krisss wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. Funny how fast a player owes the community something. I mean its not like they live with complete strangers all the time long, with language barriers, "bad" accomodation, etc. But hey, they get a cup of rice everyday and have a chance to win 1000 dollars once a month, when their proving that their better than all the koreans who train 14 hours a day. Every single player going to Korea is doing this because he loves esports. I mean its a huge thing, and they deserve to get some respect for going to korea at the first place. So please dont fukkin blame them for coming back after 1 (2?) months.. It's perfectly fine that you don't want to live in korea etc, the problem is that there are koreans training their heart out to even be in code A, and what when they see some non korean being top 12 in an MLG after being seeded in pool auto qualified in code A, leaving after winning his first match? I think it's what people are uncomfortable with, it's obvious that not everybody will want to live in korea. edit : I dunno which exact rank he was it was more of a random example
I bet you know the sentence "Dont hate the player, hate the game". Same goes for this: "Dont hate the player, hate the system". Everyone knows that the best foreigners are skillwise below the average Code A korean. So everyone knows that this system is not fair, when we define fair as "the best players should be playing". Everyone knows this. So dont blame the players that get a "wildcard" and dont take the GSL that seriously, as the Koreans who only for work this single event. Its the system, not the players.
And this system, this should be said, it made to make money! GOM wants paying customers, therefore they change the system from being "100% fair" into sth more unfair (needed to be discussed), in the hope to get more money. So its GOMs decision to change the system if they think thats needed. This can be done by not giving away Wildcards for foreigners anymore, or IMHO a much bette roption, raising the prize money for Coda A. Dont expect a foreigner to spend years of his life in Korea trying to win once 1000 Dollars. Ppl in this forum often forget about the real "life" in this forum. Try to explain this path of life to any person not involved in esports:
random person: Hey Sjow, long time no see, what u did the last 3 years? Sjow: I was in Korea. random person: WOW, what did u do there? Sjow: I was progamer, i was making money by playing computer games. random person: Your crazy man, and how can u make money by play games? Sjow: well the best players of the world play in a 1-month tournament, where the winner gets 1500 dollar, after spending months of trying to get into to tournament, spending 14 hours a day training. random person: 1500 dollars? roflLOLOLOL
so please, dont forget the link to "reality"
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If SjoW values his profession (as a professional gamer), and TRULY wants to succeed, and not just be an "upper+" middle-of-the-road European Terran, then he must stay in Korea. The language barrier is tough. The culture is tough. The competition is fierce. But who ever said that success comes with ease? Never - it always takes VERY hard work.
SjoW should strongly consider if he is looking to be the best Terran in Europe, or if he is looking to aspire to something greater. Because at the moment, he is a strong contender for the first requirement, but he can not compete for the latter.
Go back to Korea, SjoW. Tough it out for a few more months, just like IdrA, Artosis, Jinro, HuK, Ret, Haypro, Nony, and all of the other foreigners did in the past.
There is surely more money to be won in Europe and other foreign venues; nobody can argue that, due to prize pools, tournament frequency and competition all being way less. However, I view Korea as Graduate College. You go for the investment in the future, and not the fun. It will pay off.
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good luck with all those tourneys sjow, i hope you do well and when you come back to korea, make some noise there. The part about the food makes me laugh for some reason ;0. asian flavors can be strange for people.
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On October 11 2011 03:16 Urielnam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. I really agree with you. I don't think any of the Koreans or Foreigners showed anything special on their first GSL. I have this feeling that foreigners are kind of abusing the Code A ticket they get from events like MLG and instead of going. I'd like to see what Naniwa or Fenix can pull out if they stick to training in Korea.
I'd argue that Select showed some baller games against Alicia.
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
Well, I hope that this shuts up all the people that are complaining about "life time opportunity" and "throw away what koreans dream to get"...
I'm happy that you enjoyed your stay in korean and that you were able to improve since that was really your main goal. I hope that when you get back you're able to melt some korean progamers
GL!
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sjow stated perfect ! take the big foreign tournaments with this train and next time have a gsl run again sounds very very nice ! i think you can one time be one of the ultimative top 3 worldclass terrans !
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Unlucky for you that such good tourneys coincide with Code A, but it was obvious that this would be the choice. Hope you go back and own some 'kimchi players'
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
This should be put on the front page of this thread. Great that you are back in Sweden, hope to see you on the streets! ^^
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Can't believe some of the things said in this thread. Maybe Korea isn't what everyone has pictured it with foreigners coming and leaving soon after. I'm sure for some it's hard on them being such a big change. Going to live in a country where you most likely don't speak the language, live in smaller house that you're used to with probably 10 more people than you're used to. You have to get used to their food, social norms and society not to mention have a new and harder practice schedule. All this "he's been there for a few months he should be used to it" is pretty silly. Not saying he falls into this category of being uncomfortable but it's not like everyone who goes gets used to it and few months and should enjoy the lifestyle change they are being forced to live. People act differently when experiencing such a huge change not to mention it's his life and career, let him do what he wants.
Best of luck Sjow.
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I hope the OP gets edited to explain that Sjow will (or at least intends to) return to Korea after Dreamhack Winter.
Besides that I'll say that the only valid critique against Sjow is that leaving a tournament that you're qualified for might give a bad impression on the foreigner community (if a lot of other foreigners do that as well), but it's not THAT bad.
It's also quite alright if you're tired of people leaving Korea when they're seemingly in a good spot to continue and improve, but you can't fault individual players for that and should if anything direct your frustration to GOM and demand a better training environment and such. The players who go to Korea have no obligations to conceited TL-posters who demand more successful foreigners in the GSL. We may all be valuable to the collective SC2 community, but individual players can never and should never be expected to care about what we think is best for them or for us.
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
That is great to hear. Best of luck!
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential Best of luck at IEMNY and ESWC!!! I will be rooting for you!
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On October 11 2011 04:39 Aureknight wrote: Ive said it all along....Korea is not worth going. You give up so much for so little. There are way too many tournaments online now or even tournaments closer in EU and the US. Only reason everyone gets all hyped up is that its GSL. GSL is not dumb. They are offering all these code A spots to all these tournaments to make their league be the one that all want to be a part of. By doing this they are caliming to be the best. Yes they are the best, but wont last forever plus there are so many tournies now that players DONT NEED to go to korea. Im actually suprised other tournaments havent said...No Ty GSL....we dont need your code A spot. We are the best here and we dont need to be playing seconf fiddle to you guys. The only one that is not kissing bootie to GSL is the NASL. Wether GSL didnt include them or NASL said yeah right we dont need you is up to debate. NASL is the only league that has grab thier CAJONES and said....no GSL....we are not second to you. In the long run the NASL will be the more efficient way to do high level tournaments. You only bring the best of the best to the finals like NASL. GSL knows this and they dont want to lose their hold on SC2. They know they need to make some way to legitimize themselves as the best by bringing foreigners. They know if they include others and bring them then they got them were they want them (league wise). Is it not obvious why so many foreigners leave? Many could tell you that, but i guess they need to see it for themselves. The best example of this is the BLIZZARD CUP. C'mon now. Do you really think the winners of those tournaments are really the best of the best? I mean they are very good but we could actually switch so many of those winners with some from korea GSL. It will be a very good league to see, but i go back to my point. GSL just wants to include all these foreign tournamnets winners to ligitimize themselves as the league of leagues. All these foreig tournaments need to man up and start making their tournaments be the most important to them. They dont need GSL to know that they are good.
Cool story BUT GSL doesn`t need foreigners to claim to be the best. We have seen MANY GSL players win foreign tournaments where as we don`t see any foreigners tearing shit up in GSL. Take the blinders off, GSL might not be the best international tournament but it definitely has the toughest competition and huge prize pool for the best players every month.
NASL bringing the best of the best to the finals? Hmmm..
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On October 11 2011 04:41 Grimmyman123 wrote: I'm not surprised. He won his ticket into Code A, and has spent some time learning in Korea. Really though, would a pro gamer spend 2-6 months practising and trying to get through Code A... and what was the prize again for Code A? Something like $1300 bucks and a Code S seat? Yeah, that's really worth it. (sarcasm) Yeah, a seat in the best and most prestigious tournament in the world, why would a progamer want that... That's like saying playing in the english Championship isn't worth it because you can "only" win a seat in the Premiership.
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fair enough to the guy. It can't be easy
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EDIT: Remove please!
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
Please, please put this in the OP. Really will decrease the amount of sad replies like mine I just did! Keep it up SjoW!
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in the answar to the sjow leaving a korean tournament. Lots of koreans left NASL in a controversial way ,so it happens both ways around. I think he doesnt deserve that much flame at all.
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On October 11 2011 04:23 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:49 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does. Doesn't have to do with learning the language, has to do with the giant transition from western to eastern society. the shock of it all, of not being near his parents and friends and so on. Sleeping in a new bed in a new country, eating new food, so on. stupidity. I'm so confused which side you are arguing for.
whichever side is winning
its all about winning. gotta be right.
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On October 11 2011 04:49 SjoW wrote: Dont worry guys I will come back to korea. I dont think I can attend to code A next season since I will play other tournaments such as IEM newyork, ESWC and then I would like to participate wcg sweden and swedish masters etc.
I've had a great time here, and I also feel like I improved alot. Only thing that was bothering me is the food and also slightly the language barrier
My intention for my first trip wasnt to stay here longterm only for 1 month to practice with the best and get back motivation since I was lacking it for a long time but its getting better now. I didnt really expect to qualify to gsl but I did. I only saw code A as a bonus.
I will probably go back again when the foreign tournaments cools down alittle, right now its a very tight scheduele. I think december is the right time to go back for me and I will come back with the same mindset, just go here for practice because I now know I have to be in korea to be able to reach my full potential
This is awesome, I bet you'll do great with even more Korean practice. Sjow hwaiting!
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On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something.
It's almost as if the person did know what to expect but decided to back out after one season.
See what i did there?
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Best of luck Sjow.
On October 11 2011 05:20 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:41 Grimmyman123 wrote: I'm not surprised. He won his ticket into Code A, and has spent some time learning in Korea. Really though, would a pro gamer spend 2-6 months practising and trying to get through Code A... and what was the prize again for Code A? Something like $1300 bucks and a Code S seat? Yeah, that's really worth it. (sarcasm) Yeah, a seat in the best and most prestigious tournament in the world, why would a progamer want that... That's like saying playing in the english Championship isn't worth it because you can "only" win a seat in the Premiership. Going with your example... the choice would be either playing in the Premier League OR playing in the Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A - and that decision is very easily made.
That said, I consider neither the English premier league to be the best football league, nor the GSL to be the best SC2 tournament.
Blizzard Cup is where it's at! :D
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So what on earth was the point of him taking away a code a spot from someone n the first place?
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On October 11 2011 03:40 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:35 hipsterHobbit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 cz wrote:On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. Transitional period should be over - he's been there awhile imo. Yes, learning a completely new language shouldn't take more than a few weeks, even while you're employed in a non-social profession........... obnoxious. Sjow is the man he will do fine in whatever he does. You dont need to learn a new language to be in a foreign country... Have you ever lived in a house full of people who don't speak the same language as you? Ever sat around in a living room or at a dinner table night after night without any idea what is being said? Ever found that the thing you wanted most at any given time was to just be able to have a nice conversation with someone else who speaks your language fluently for no other reason than to not have to repeat the same extremely basic phrases over and over until you finally manage to communicate what you wanted to?
I get the feeling most of the people in this thread criticizing Sjow for lack of commitment or whatever have never picked up and moved to another country where the culture and language are completely different for an extended period of time. I have. It can be very difficult. You can end up feeling very lonely and/or frustrated.
I don't know what Sjow's reasons are but I think it's foolish to criticize people for wanting to be happy instead of becoming machines who care about nothing but winning.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Much ado about nothing de-newsd
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On October 11 2011 05:20 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 04:41 Grimmyman123 wrote: I'm not surprised. He won his ticket into Code A, and has spent some time learning in Korea. Really though, would a pro gamer spend 2-6 months practising and trying to get through Code A... and what was the prize again for Code A? Something like $1300 bucks and a Code S seat? Yeah, that's really worth it. (sarcasm) Yeah, a seat in the best and most prestigious tournament in the world, why would a progamer want that... That's like saying playing in the english Championship isn't worth it because you can "only" win a seat in the Premiership. I really dont understand how people think the abstract notion of "prestige" somehow is worth more than the money and crowd-pleasing that comes with foreign events. In foreign events you get money and fan interaction, live crowds who are passionate. In GSL you play good players. I cant see how the GSL would be attractive at all, quite honestly. The only thing alluring about Korea is the practice IMO.
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guess he knows that goody is about to go there and there's only place for one foreign terran to shine. smart move.
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Does seem pretty damn luxurious for foreigners to be able to come for 1 month, qualify and be in the system and accounted for, then just leave. I can understand it though, it just seems very shallow and unthankful when you read it like this.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
Depends entirely on what their goals are. If you simply didn't know what their goals were before they left, then really it's on you and not them if they don't fulfill your fantasies with their Korean adventure.
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IdrA is also going to Korea in December for three-four months, after the tournaments are all over.
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Australia8532 Posts
On October 11 2011 05:49 Corrupted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. Depends entirely on what their goals are. If you simply didn't know what their goals were before they left, then really it's on you and not them if they don't fulfill your fantasies with their Korean adventure. Er more importantly i don't think many people beyond his immediate surroundings actually care how tired he is getting? SjoW is making a decision (a good one at that) about his career; the number of foreign tournaments is insane at the moment, and it would be pretty crazy for him to miss out on those opportunities. I am looking forward to see how he performs given his time in Korea
Best of luck SjoW
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Its pretty sad to see people give sjow shit for leaving, they have no clue what its like in korea. The food is very different from other countries, and it is really not very healthy lol, most of it is good but there is a lot of seafood which i personally don't like. How many of you have lived in a country where you can't communicate with anyone AT ALL. It's not like if I were to visit Europe, where everyone can at least speak basic english, you can't read the signs you can't do anything. Living in a team house with all the Koreans is hard too, none of them speak English, and they have to train for GSL / GSTL / other things. When they train they want to be able to talk about the game and talk strategy and they just can't do that with foreigners, so they obviously would rather play with other Koreans. You can't even go out and do anything fun really... want to go out and see a movie? oh wait they are all in korean. Want to go out to a bar ? Oh wait the menu is in korean and I don't even know how to order a drink lol.
I personally had a good time in Korea and I am really happy that I came for 6 weeks, I could see myself staying here longer, it's amazing practice and the only way to really play at the highest level, even though it takes a LONG time, take huk for example he was always a top foreigner, but it took him almost a year to really start dominating foreigner tournaments. Its a lot more fun / easier to make a living in europe / north america and most people are just here for the experience. Code A isn't even a good deal for foreigners, its just fun to try it out and get owned by someone really good. Please, stop bashing on people for not moving to Korea, its not cool and you have no clue what you are talking about.
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First person I've seen come back/talk about Korea and say that they didn't really like the food.
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Tbh I think many foreigners actually suffer from going to Korea. Yes, practicing with top tier koreans is nice, but the environment and mentality isn't for everyone. Furthermore there is literally only one tournament if you don't have a team that sends you halfway round the globe every few weeks. If you don't qualify for GSL or get eliminated early on you're scewed. Even if you do get a lot better, often times you cannot reap the rewards of your improval.
For most foreigners I think it's actually much more of healthy training environment here in the west where there are tons of tournaments. If you drop the ball you just try again next week. I can also imagine you get way more sense of achievement over here.
Overall I think it's worthwhile to go to Korea, if only for the experience. Might also help to get a different perspective on Korean players. Eventually coming back is the right thing to do though imho. We 'foreigners' should just try to find our own way to match the Koreans in terms of skill, and I'm convinced that in time we will.
I wish you the best of luck SjoW. Hope you can tear up the tournaments like you used to.
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Food issues? but kbbq and kimchi is so good!!! I guess Korean food is quite different to Scandinavian food =(
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Meh kind of agree but also kind of disagree, I think (as well as many others) that I would've like to seen his improvement from his time there, maybe we'll se in IEM and ESWC but still GSL is GSL.
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On October 11 2011 03:14 Zic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. It's almost as if travelling to a foreign country where you don't speak the language and living there is a hard transition or something. But why even go in the first place if you're not going to stay for very long?
to train? lol
I think it's the right decision, foreign tourney's pay more although they don't grant you a code S spot t.t either way hope to see Korean banjo Sjow own it up at Orlando (hope you're going)
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Seems like his decision is well based in thought and I respect it. I hope to see the improvement from time spent training in korea at the next few tournaments.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
Moving to a different country is a big thing. Most of them, when it comes to going to Korea, say, "I will go here for a month and see how it is like, and then return home." It's a logical choice; would you be fully keen on dropping everything and moving to Korea when there is more for you as far as money, friends and family in a different country? You might decide it's worth staying once you get there, but you'd be reluctant to make any huge "I'm going to stay here forever" plans if you hadn't even been to the country or lived in a Korean pro-house before.
As far as I can see, Sjow has shown commitment enough by moving there and trying it out. The fact that he says he wants to come back is convincing enough for me that he's dedicated to becoming good. We can't expect everyone to commit 100% of their lives to Korea straight off the bat.
Best of luck to Sjow and although I'm sad to see him miss out on his code A run, I'll be glad to see him back in December.
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Unwilling to suck it up and improve in Korea + 0 chance of winning GSL + much easier time making money in foreign tournaments = few foreigners willing to stay in Korea. The cream will rise to the top: it's why regardless of natural talent, some people will plateau and cease to improve. This is totally fine, not everybody has to have the goal of being the best. Some people just want to have fun and maybe make some money, others might have families etc. Much respect to folks who commit to their goals and continue to grind it out (Jinro, Huk, etc.) even when things don't go well.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after.
Well they go there to practice, playing in the gsl is just a bonus.
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I wonder if Sjow actually improved from staying 1 month in Korea. His apm is so low I can't imagine he picked up any of the multi-tasking reliant strategies Korean terrans love so much.
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You can obviously become good enough to win major international events by just practicing in Europe, which Stephano just proved. So why give up your friends, family and home to live in Korea if you don't want to?
As for people bashing SjoW (who isn't even leaving Korea), it seems really odd. Why shouldn't you be allowed to go to Korea for a month or two to see how you like it? I see no reason to at least try to lifestyle and playstyle there if you got the chance to do it.
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What are you all whining about? Sjow is leaving to korea to go to alot of events. After that he's returning. Can people please stop posting without reading the entire OP?
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On October 11 2011 07:55 Paladia wrote: You can obviously become good enough to win major international events by just practicing in Europe, which Stephano just proved. So why give up your friends, family and home to live in Korea if you don't want to? Ever think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Stephano might be more talented and exceptional than your average pro grinding it out on the EU ladder? Not everyone is capable of succeeding without the right tools.
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Excited to see him back at Code A to be honest, of course: IEM is coming up! Very interested in that!
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On October 11 2011 07:56 garlicface wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 07:55 Paladia wrote: You can obviously become good enough to win major international events by just practicing in Europe, which Stephano just proved. So why give up your friends, family and home to live in Korea if you don't want to? Ever think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Stephano might be more talented and exceptional than your average pro grinding it out on the EU ladder? Not everyone is capable of succeeding without the right tools. He shows us that it can be done. He is obviously very talented but that is a requirement for winning a major tournament so I don't see why that even has to be brought up. You also face people like Stephano on the EU ladder and can practice versus him, as well as people like Mana and Thorzain (to name one of each race).
Practicing with people like Stephano, Mana and Thorzain is likely as good of a practice as you can get. It is obviously enough to win major tournaments.
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On October 11 2011 03:11 Zic wrote: I'm getting tired of foreigners coming to Korea for a single GSL season and then leaving right after. Get over it, it isn't cheap to stay in Korea just for GSL for a month.
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Found out about this through PlayXP.. was really sad at first but good to know that SjoW has learned a lot from his short trip and has every intention to return. Best of luck to SjoW in his future endeavors and I look forward to seeing how he does in the future. Fighting!
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On October 11 2011 03:21 SolidMoose wrote: Maka should get a free pass back in
I agree as well
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