i think this will make it too easy for the diamond player;; only affecting expos and it seems like too small a loss of income.
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Jellikit
Sweden258 Posts
i think this will make it too easy for the diamond player;; only affecting expos and it seems like too small a loss of income. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42206 Posts
Especially Master vs. Bronze... Bronze should actually never lose o.O Just make a few tier one units. | ||
taddel
Germany13 Posts
I like the general concept though. Having non standard games is always fun to watch for me. | ||
feardragon
United States969 Posts
On April 15 2012 19:06 Demicore wrote: Did I get that wrong? 15 minutes into the game, you're stuck with 15 marines / 7 stalkers or somesuch? Wouldn't that be worse than the silver requirement of 20 army supply since most games don't last 20 minutes? This one is awesome :D Good luck with the tournament. I initially envisioned that the Masters league player would just need to constantly exchange or harass with their units(like get a zealot, then a stalker, suicide attack the zealot in with the stalker to pick off units and make a sentry, go for dark templar, etc. etc. But I think you're right. This handicap is worse than the Silver league one. I think I'll swap the Masters vs Gold with Masters vs Silver and increase it to 30 supply. Thanks. =] + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 19:44 Salivanth wrote: Most of these handicaps are awesome. Please keep them. The big picture: You're doing a good job. Nevertheless, the changes I personally would make: Masters vs. Bronze, Diamond vs. Bronze: I know how HUGE the handicap has to be to make this battle an actual battle, but what you're doing is fundamentally restricting the player's ability to play the game AT ALL. What I would recommend here is sharply reducing their ability to play the game in the core elements of micro and macro, but still let them fight. Masters vs. Bronze: "You may only have one worker per minute, plus your additional six workers. Attack-move all engagements." Diamond vs. Bronze: "See Masters vs. Bronze, however you may cast exactly two spells during each engagement." Masters vs. Gold: "You may only have army supply equal to double the minutes on the game clock." Diamond vs. Gold: "Your expansions must be two hexes off." Thanks for the good words! I know there are still a lot of issues, and my goal is to have an eventually balanced set of rules. I'm not so naive that I think I can easily balance such a complex game to certain skill levels in a short period of time with no testing. I think you have a good point in the Masters vs Bronze and Diamond vs Bronze. I'm starting to realize that they will result in overly limited games for the higher league players, and ultimately not be much fun. I'm thinking about instead restricting it 8 mining workers per base and no rush for 7 minutes for masters league players. Diamond league would get 12 workers per base, 7 minute no rush. With this, I'd implement another change to plat. Instead of saying no defensive structures allowed, I would change it to: you cannot LEAVE your base until the 7 minute mark. Hopefully someone can comment on these restrictions. + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 20:00 Sorathez wrote: Seems awesome, though the Plat/dia/masters vs Bronze ones are a bit... off. I mean what if it's a zerg and they just 6-pool? Any bronze can 6-pool. Also Masters vs Gold. Protoss, any protoss can get their 4-gate to hit before 7 minutes, and with only 7 army supply.... what? Read the first part of my post! Thanks. =] + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 21:06 bleu329 wrote: This sounds like fun and I may join in. My suggestion is a restrictioin that you can't use MULES, Chronoboost, or Injections That is a good one, but I feel it's under-limiting to Protoss and overlimitting to Zerg so I'm not sure where it would fit in. You can see Protoss forgetting their chronoboost anyways, but Zerg would have major issues without the larva. Also, it'd be hard to enforce. Kill your hatchery/nexus if you accidentally do it? >< + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 21:17 HaXXspetten wrote: As much as I love this concept, some of these handicaps are beyond broken and just ridiculous. Like, "no defensive structures or units until the 12 minute mark", it doesn't matter if it's Master vs Bronze, your opponent knows of your handicaps, he can just litterally six pool and keep building lings for 10 minutes before a-clicking >.> Yea. I think it's ok if a lower leaguer can take advantage of a handicap, but it can't be too ridiculous as I think those handicaps were. Read the first part of my post, Thanks. =] + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 21:59 Jellikit wrote: "diamond vs gold: Expos must be one hex off" i think this will make it too easy for the diamond player;; only affecting expos and it seems like too small a loss of income. I changed it to two hexes, but I'm considering just making it 4....partially because it'd look ridiculous. xD. But there is an issue you raise that should be concerned. One base all-in's are unaffected by this restriction. We'll have to look into this one further. + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 22:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Cool concept, but some of these balance ideas are kind of ridiculous lol. Especially Master vs. Bronze... Bronze should actually never lose o.O Just make a few tier one units. Yup! Thanks for the feedback. Check out the first response in this post. =] + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 22:31 taddel wrote: I think the masters vs plat (no uprades) is not severe enough. The masters player can just go for any early rush since that usually doesn't require upgrades. I like the general concept though. Having non standard games is always fun to watch for me. I'm going to stick with this one for a bit since I think a Plat level player can use that knowledge to realize the further the game goes, the better off they'll be. I see your point, but I think the Plat player can just be overcautious and still come out all right. Besides, There are not many rush builds other than Cannon Rush, proxy 2 gate, and 6-10 pool, and 2 rax that don't involve a basic upgrade, and I feel these can be prepared for anyways. If it ends up being an issue, we'll definitely come back and revisit this one! Thanks again for all the feedback guys! About 7 more hours before it starts so keep it coming. =] Take a look at any changes made and voice your opinions on them! | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
My army supply may at most be equal to the amount of minutes the game has lasted? I have 130 army supply in ZvP at 13 minutes, not 13 army supply. You are dead as shit in ANY situation vs anyone who has a remote idea of how to build any kind of unit whatsoever. I cant see any silver league not beating a masters in PvZ if you take away literally 90% of the zergs units... You said about changing that one, but a lot of the other ones are stupid too. Must kill 10 of my own workers before leaving base vs diamond? This completely takes early game PvZ zealot scouting or light pressure to confirm zerg is on more than 1 base vs ffe out of the equation, same as TvP 2rax etc. In that case the protoss can 15 nexus completely safely, and not even worry about going past 1 gate until double forge is up because terran cant leave his base :/ | ||
feardragon
United States969 Posts
On April 16 2012 00:42 Cyro wrote: Stupid handicaps. My army supply may at most be equal to the amount of minutes the game has lasted? I have 130 army supply in ZvP at 13 minutes, not 13 army supply. You are dead as shit in ANY situation vs anyone who has a remote idea of how to build any kind of unit whatsoever. I cant see any silver league not beating a masters in PvZ if you take away literally 90% of the zergs units... You said about changing that one, but a lot of the other ones are stupid too. Must kill 10 of my own workers before leaving base vs diamond? This completely takes early game PvZ zealot scouting or light pressure to confirm zerg is on more than 1 base vs ffe out of the equation, same as TvP 2rax etc. In that case the protoss can 15 nexus completely safely, and not even worry about going past 1 gate until double forge is up because terran cant leave his base :/ I hear you out on that first one, but I think a masters league player should have refined enough builds that they can deal some good damage early on. I think zerg will have enough units to survive early on pressure at least for Masters vs Silver. I did change it to double the number of minutes though as suggested by others. So I do appreciate the tip. As for the Masters vs Diamond, I agree that it will kill chances of light pressure. However, this does not stop scouting in general with say a worker, overlord, scan, etc. And of course, if the diamond player plays greedy, the master league player will be able to scout it out and needs to react by either going "all-in" with superior micro, or overcome the greedy advantage with superior macro. I'm going to stick with the advantage for now, but if it ends up being an issue like you suggested, I think I might change it to kill a number of workers equal the the minutes past in the game. Does that sound fair? Light pressure will still be punishing for the Masters player to do(4-6 workers), but later game attacks will result in the 10 or more workers being killed off, forcing the master leaguer to have a good engagement. Let me know your thoughts on that. I'd also love to hear your suggestions for any handicaps you have issues with. | ||
eatmybunnies
United States90 Posts
I would like maybe to see a unit hp handicap. master vs. diamond 90% handicap diamond vs plat 90% ect. Then master vs plat 80% ect Masters vs gold 70% Masters vs silver 60& ect and so on | ||
UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
Also, "may not exceed 125 supply" for Diamond on Platinum is a little unfair for Zerg. That basically means that Zerg players have to go all-in because in a macro game half of that supply would be drones, and then some for queens, and the remainder would be extremely supply inefficient, as most Zerg units are. | ||
feardragon
United States969 Posts
Edit: Now Live! | ||
feardragon
United States969 Posts
The victor of today ended up being Anapob with 3 victories in a row before being dethroned by vVvXenocide! I'll be contacting him to see if he wants to do some kind of interview. =] And of course, the video will be uploaded to my youtube so go ahead and check that out at: http://www.youtube.com/feardragon64 Hope to see you all next Sunday! And again, if you're on EU and find this interesting, let me know and I'll see if there'd be enough people to do this on EU as well! | ||
yomi
United States773 Posts
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OzkanTheFlip
United States246 Posts
you gonna do anythin bout that?> | ||
feardragon
United States969 Posts
On April 16 2012 10:34 OzkanTheFlip wrote: this will be a smurf magnet you gonna do anythin bout that?> I am actually working on this! =] I'm thinking about doing a chat voting system for whether or not there is a potential smurf. I had hoped that, because there wasn't a lot on the line, smurfing wouldn't be a huge issue. Unfortunately, I think this will be an issue I will need to address. | ||
Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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feardragon
United States969 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:51 Salivanth wrote: What you could do to prevent a smurf taking over everything is that after every 2 wins, the player is treated as one league higher for handicaps. If he's already treated as a Master, his opponent gets to be one league lower. So Diamond vs. Platinum after 2 victories becomes Master vs. Platinum, then Master vs. Gold after 4. Maybe make it every two games, to allow for people to have a reasonable streak. Alternatively, just a chat voting system or get a friend you trust and if you both agree it's a smurf, get them to step down. In real KOTH this would be unfair, but Balance Battles IS about letting everyone play after all, so forcing players to step it up to remain standing will help turnover I love this idea! Definitely going to try and adapt something like this into the system. | ||
feardragon
United States969 Posts
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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feardragon
United States969 Posts
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feardragon
United States969 Posts
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feardragon
United States969 Posts
Remember, if you want to play, join the channel BalanceBattle and you'll be randomly selected! | ||
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