|
On September 02 2012 08:57 BathTubNZ wrote: I guess they waived the team requirement.
It was always a team/sponsorship requirement, iirc. That's why players like White-Ra were allowed to play every season. Although I am confused about Morrow.
|
Hope Violet doesn't forfeit.
|
really hope they accept because DRG vs taeja will definitely be the best match of NASL
|
|
On September 02 2012 09:00 Dexington wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 08:57 BathTubNZ wrote: I guess they waived the team requirement. It was always a team/sponsorship requirement, iirc. That's why players like White-Ra were allowed to play every season. Although I am confused about Morrow.
Maybe they won't kick you out if you are already in.
|
I always laugh when idiots ask why people get invites... Some players get massive viewership, most of the time they are the best players and NASL went and picked fan favorites/best players and people still bitch.
qualifying =/= best skill, a lucky bo3 where someone goes 11/11rax twice and manages to luck out of 10pool 10pool in a zvz can close out a top player with a mediocre player and then we get an entire tournament of mediocre players... Invites = good thing.
|
On September 02 2012 10:57 NeMeSiS3 wrote: I always laugh when idiots ask why people get invites... Some players get massive viewership, most of the time they are the best players and NASL went and picked fan favorites/best players and people still bitch.
qualifying =/= best skill, a lucky bo3 where someone goes 11/11rax twice and manages to luck out of 10pool 10pool in a zvz can close out a top player with a mediocre player and then we get an entire tournament of mediocre players... Invites = good thing.
If they didn't get invites, the people would just complain (like they have in the past) that NASL doesn't have the best players in the world competing.
|
Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching.
Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective.
http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012
There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no? A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites.
The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate)
That's well and good, but what about some other players like: Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner
I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
|
Another thing that's been niggling me about the NASL is that too many players from a given season are automatically given a spot in the next season. It seems odd to me that 5 players who went 3-5 in season 3 are given a spot in Season 4 automatically. Meanwhile, you've got dozens of good players, including at least a dozen great ones, vying for a measly 4 spots in the qualifiers, and another measly 4 spots in invites.
It seems to me there's a problem with the system when you have to decide whether it's MMA or MVP that gets to play in the NASL 4 while Hwangsin, Targa, qxc, Mana, and Vibe are automatically in on mediocre season 3 performances.
Also, remember the open tournament from last season? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/North_American_Star_League_Season_3/Open_Tournament In a tournament with a noticeable absence in A list talent, you've got 4 spots into the NASL4. Compare that to the huge list of names competing for 4 spots in the NASL 4 qualifiers. It seems to me that if you want an easy way into the NASL, you should wait for the open tournament.
|
On September 02 2012 11:57 Gatesleeper wrote:Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching. Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective. http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no? A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites. The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate) That's well and good, but what about some other players like: Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list.
Stop nitpicking. There is no perfect system, and NASL's invites are fine. The 5 invited players are all players that will bring in viewers AND have demonstrated strong play. That should be sufficient
|
I’m really interested in this scoring method and am looking forward to seeing the full list published (partly because I’m a massive nerd and love lists and also because I want to see just how awesome MC is). Fair play to Fodan for spending his time crunching out these numbers, no doubt it was an incredibly laborious task.
To me it all seems pretty solid apart from the decay system (which to be fair has been acknowledged several times in this thread). The biggest problem I have with this is it seems to favour people who played more recently. Say a guy gets 3 RO32 spots in Homestory, GSL and IEM (109.5 points) from Jan till Feb, then nothing till August and loses all their points and are out ranked by a person who got just 1 RO32 spot in ASUS August. Of course you could argue that most recent performances are the most important (this is true even more so in SC2) and this system will improve the longer its used but I still feel it could be improved. The tennis ATP system seems to have one of the best deduction systems, it deducts points based on previous results from the same tournament (so if you won a GSL the only way to not have points deducted is to win the next GSL, or at least I think that’s how it works, I’m not 100% sure). Of course the drawback to this method is that it’s pretty damn complicated :S
Either way seriously can’t wait for NASL 4. NASL 3 has been the tournament I enjoyed the most this year (by a long way) and they’ve improved by leaps and bounds since the first season. Also I’ve finally got an internet connection that isn’t powered by a hamster wheel so I can finally justify a HD pass :D
|
Yup, that is how the ATP ranking works. You earn X amount of points at a given tournament, and you keep those points until one year passes and that same tournament comes up again. Then, the points you had earned the previous year is your "points defending". If you do worse than you did the previous year, you lose points. If you do better, you gain points. Or if you achieve the same result, your points remain static.
It's a decent system, but not one that could work in the current sc2 pro scene, because our tournaments don't follow any sort of calendar year, except IEM, MLG, and Dreamhack.
I think the decay system is fine. GSL uses a similar system to determine their rankings.
|
I really love how NASL tries to make a totally impartial ranking to pick their invites. It is not perfect, but more fair than any other invite systems out there.
|
On September 02 2012 11:57 Gatesleeper wrote:Okay, maybe you guys can get by trying to justify MMA as one of the top 4 players to get invited, but Naniwa as the fifth? Now you're really stretching. Either dozens of people declined your invitations or your ranking system is truly flawed. Or did you just say "fuck it" and decide to invite a player you wanted to see in the NASL? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I think Naniwa is a good choice from a fan perspective. http://sc2earnings.com/?year=2012There's the list for prize money winners from only this year. Your list should roughly line up with that list, no? A f few of the top 10 are already in the NASL: MC, Stephano, Alive. You invited DRG, Violet, MMA, and Taeja. MKP and Nerchio turned down invites. The highest player on the money list after that is MVP (#6). You explain that other than his GSL win and IEM win, MVP has not had a prolific tournament life in 2012. His GSL win skews his money ranking list because the 1st place prize of ~44k is huge compared to 1st place prizes of other tournaments. The same is true for Seed (#7), whose GSL winnings account for 95% of all the prize money he's earned. And since your system ranks GSL performance on the same tier as other premier tournaments, it makes sense that a single GSL season win would not automatically shoot you to the top of the system rankings. (Whether or not that it should is another debate) That's well and good, but what about some other players like: Squirtle (#8) - IPL4 - 2nd place, GSL - 2nd place, Red Bull - 4th place, WCS Korea - 2nd place Leenock (#15) - MLG Summer Champ, 9th place at Spring Championship, 3 Code S seasons this year Scarlett (#16) - WCS Canada winner, WCS North American winner I could go on, but the point is that Naniwa is #44 on the money list for 2012, how did he get the 5th invite? Also curious that Nerchio is #18 in the money list but was above MMA on the invite list. On August 31 2012 00:53 Yonnua wrote: I make it something along the lines of:
1. MC ~2500 2. Violet ~1700 3. Stephano ~1500 4. DRG ~1450 5. MKP ~1400 6. Taeja ~1250 7. MMA ~1150 8. Alive ~1150 9. Puma ~1150 10. Polt ~1050 11. Hero ~1050 12. Nerchio ~1000 13. Ret ~950 14. Alicia ~900 15. Mvp ~850 16. Oz ~700 17. Naniwa ~700 18. Symbol ~700 19. Nestea ~650 20. Dimaga ~650
But those are only rough because the methodology isn't 100% explicit when it comes to in progress tournaments and how the decay works. Those are just rough values to give some kind of indication.
Which means Mvp might be the secret invite, or it could be Oz or Naniwa.
And if you read the rules, you'd know that only IPL and GSL count for Squirtle and neither WCS count for Scarlett.
|
|
This is really awesome, if the finals are in Toronto. That would be awesome but I hope if they are there actually in Toronto and not in Mississauga with little to nothing around it compared to Toronto.
|
Just saw this. Awesome invites. Really nice job by NASL to form a great Season 4 through these invites and qualifiers,
|
so where is the full list?
|
|
|
|