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Hello, recently i was playing with JuicyPeach in ESL and lost to him with some very suspicious moments on his side. Already before game i was warned that he is maphacker from RoX.Kis.Creed:
RoxKISCreed: удачи вс мх играешь =) на есл You: прикольно
http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/cup302/match/28742067/
There is a replay where you can see everything yourself. Some moments i pointed out to admins:
[15:29] <Strelok> just 2 moments. 13:55 up to 15:10. i fly with medivac which he doesn't see. he immediately warps 3 hts. and several times selects his army near main nexus while i am flying [15:29] <Strelok> and the biggest moment - 18:23 [15:29] <Strelok> he goes attack and suddently starts warping stalkers back at third [15:29] <Strelok> without seing i am going to drop here
You can say: "just luck". But this guy already was banned from resp.su (russian league), also (according to Rox.Kis.Creed there was a topick about him on teamliquid).
RoxKISCreed: угу и на тл про него тему делали ака goodmorning farabuty
ESL admins gave me freewin, because they have found that it's his fake account and main one was already banned (don't know why, they refused to say me that), but they couldn't give me freewin based on the fact that in fact he is a maphacker.
But what i really can't understand. There is a person with very suspicious moments in game. he already was banned from several russian tournaments, for example reps.su. there was a topick about his previous maphacking on TL, but there is not enough for ban? Then what is enough for that??
And believe me, this guy is not the only one who is a very "suspicious" GML players in Europe. The other one, for example, is CPlayTT.ImbaToss. This guy, by the way, is also very active in tournaments. 80% of people i talked with about him either wonder how he blindly counters all they do or just suspect him in maphack.
http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/cup300/match/28714165/
That's the example of match. Without knowing exactly on which position i am - he makes proxy pylon and rallies his mothership core there, decides to push, then (without seing i decide to protect not low ground) decides not to push. Suspicious? A bit, because i scouted him rather early and he could decide that i am not cross positions. But that happens EVERY game. Suddenly banshees or mutas meet 6 hidden phoenixes, the scouting is not made vs passive but is made vs CC before barrack, e.t.c.
I asked my manager about that situation, he told me that this guy not so long ago won 5-0 german team Sgent, with 5 times in a row blindly countering them.
Also, for example, our chat with 1 of russian progamers (i don't want to call his name, because i didn't ask him permission): (sorry russian)
[21.07.2013 19:02:13] j7: Привет, у тебя не возникали ощущения, что Imbatoss палил стрим? [21.07.2013 19:36:51] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): привет [21.07.2013 19:36:56] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): возникали, и очень конкретные [21.07.2013 19:36:59] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): особенно в 3 игре [21.07.2013 19:37:16] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): но что я мог сделать? [21.07.2013 19:37:32] jaegon87: ну он против меня играл в четверг, я тоже проиграл 1-2 [21.07.2013 19:37:45] j7: и сегодня когда он играл против нерчио [21.07.2013 19:38:07] j7: были моменты, когда он просто вслепую контрил че делает соперник [21.07.2013 19:38:39] j7: ну, просто хотел спросить, что ты думаешь по этому поводу [21.07.2013 19:38:50] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): просто дело в том [21.07.2013 19:38:57] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): что я смотрел - вроде как была задержка на стриме [21.07.2013 19:38:58] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): 2 минуты [21.07.2013 19:39:11] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): я спецом проверил после того [21.07.2013 19:39:23] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): как на моих баньшей без разведки отреагировали 6ю фениксам [21.07.2013 19:39:39] j7: ну мб просто мапхак [21.07.2013 19:40:04] Евгений (Na'Vi.FXOStrelok): ну а как доказать-то [21.07.2013 19:40:12] j7: ну вот он когда играл против нерчио, нерчио ставит шпиль, а он мгновенно 2 старгейта поставил
The main idea of chat is that j7 saying he thinks that this guy was watching a stream in games against me and i say there was a delay. Then he says - he also played with him on thursday and lost with suspicious moments. And now ImbaToss plays Nerchio and j7 finds these games also suspicious.
PLEASE!!! I know you will discuss, if there was a cheat in those games or not, but answer the main question: "If usual suspicious actions every game is not enough, then how on Earth maphack can be proved, if he doesn't do that way too silly?"
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Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening.
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I played imbatoss in one of the cups and i thought the same, i think i even wrote to him he was streamcheating, but let's not jump to conclusions
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The basic issue with all the hacks and cheats around is that the client receives all data about the game and just hides it from sight. Therefore the hidden information is still on the computer and there will always be a possibility to reveal it. I don't know if it is possible to have an RTS without sending out all data or if - latency wise - the game would still work serverside, where the server just sends out the information each specific client knows about. I doubt it though. In the end; the cheating will not be stopped.
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IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience.
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On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money.
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Well i did play him in go4sc2 too and something seemed a little bit off, and about imbatoss, for me he popped out of nowhere and started winning vs top players and then got onto CPLAY which is a decent European team, let's not jump into conclusions yet but im pretty damn sure something is a bit off about em.
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Mh is like the esports' player's PED. At least it's not nearly prevalent in the sport . I can't imagine a day where maphacks will no longer pose a problem in an online match So... to "answer" the question, it's sad to say that there probably will never be a way .
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Just checked a replay of my game vs JuicyPeach, it bothers me a lot how he didn't scout me at all, and by at all i mean AT ALL, only scout that he did was 1 time to check at his third and fourth for a probe that indeed was hiding there. Other than that, i can't say that he maphacked for sure, he played blind and pretty cheesy into an all in, cant say more than that.
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On July 28 2013 22:44 grs wrote: The basic issue with all the hacks and cheats around is that the client receives all data about the game and just hides it from sight. Therefore the hidden information is still on the computer and there will always be a possibility to reveal it. I don't know if it is possible to have an RTS without sending out all data or if - latency wise - the game would still work serverside, where the server just sends out the information each specific client knows about. I doubt it though. In the end; the cheating will not be stopped. There was a paper recently on exactly that, rts design that would not noticeably affect latency but also allow for it being hack proof, at least on the client side. Probably too late for blizz to implement that though at this point in sc2's life.
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On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote: Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money.
How would it not be legal? No one is forcing these players to play the game, let alone compete in competitions. It would simply be an additional criteria for entering tournaments. Choose not to meet the criteria and you have chosen not to compete. No one is forcing anything on anyone.
And I never said hacks are developed for ladder only, so no idea why you are putting words in my mouth.
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On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money.
ESEA does it
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report the player to blizzard. if enough people does that blizzard will take a look at the guy and if given enough evidence, a ban can happen. its probably the only thing that can be done except raise awareness of the player (which this thread does; good job strelok)
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Juicypeach is a maphacker, and thats no question. About the other guy I have no idea, as I have never played him. I would love blizzard to take a look at the reports Im constantly sending about possible hackers. Guess its to difficult to implement any antihack utility to the game.
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If imbatoss is a maphacker then i dont feel as bad losing to his proxy 2gate on akilon wastes :D
This is also one of the reasons i dont like to participate in online tournaments. Lans have much better settings and the chance of cheating is close to zero.
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On July 28 2013 23:02 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. ESEA does it Not comparable. CS is client server. As I wrote above, that is the basic problem (SC2 being client/client; with all information available on both sides).
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On July 28 2013 23:02 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:
Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. ESEA does it
So other organizations are actively trying to stomp out hackers from their competitions, and Blizzard sits idly? Let me find my surprised face...
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On July 28 2013 23:02 Durmaz21 wrote: report the player to blizzard. if enough people does that blizzard will take a look at the guy and if given enough evidence, a ban can happen. its probably the only thing that can be done except raise awareness of the player (which this thread does; good job strelok) I don't know dude. To me it seems like the reporting system is just a visual feature but practically it doesn't do anything. I judge by the amount of people that were reported by at least 20+ people and they still maphack/cheat freely even now.
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On July 28 2013 23:01 krazykoz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote: Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. How would it not be legal? No one is forcing these players to play the game, let alone compete in competitions. It would simply be an additional criteria for entering tournaments. Choose not to meet the criteria and you have chosen not to compete. No one is forcing anything on anyone. And I never said hacks are developed for ladder only, so no idea why you are putting words in my mouth. Because it is not solved with a launcher like Cplay does it.
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On July 28 2013 23:00 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:44 grs wrote: The basic issue with all the hacks and cheats around is that the client receives all data about the game and just hides it from sight. Therefore the hidden information is still on the computer and there will always be a possibility to reveal it. I don't know if it is possible to have an RTS without sending out all data or if - latency wise - the game would still work serverside, where the server just sends out the information each specific client knows about. I doubt it though. In the end; the cheating will not be stopped. There was a paper recently on exactly that, rts design that would not noticeably affect latency but also allow for it being hack proof, at least on the client side. Probably too late for blizz to implement that though at this point in sc2's life.
yep mostly run serverside is quiet possible, but for the not noticeable latency I guess everyone would have to pay 20 euro a month. And it is far from being immune towards cheating.
At the end you need good Admins for online tournaments, thats all you can do. Everything else is just a bonus to aid them in their decision.
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On July 28 2013 23:09 grs wrote: Because it is not solved with a launcher like Cplay does it.
If there was incentive, Blizzard would find a way to do a develop a program that works in a similar fashion. There is no incentive as Blizzard does not view this as a wide-spread problem, so therefore they are not finding a solution problem.
Not sure what your response had to do with the legality or ladder aspects of it given that was what you quoted.
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Btw, there very first thing is casters not having and even lying about their delay when they stream cups. This is the biggest, most widespread and undetectable cheat there is. Yet it seems impossible to enforce that
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What about the upcoming Blizzard Launcher Desktop program then? Could that in some way sniff out wether or not a player is using maphacks or other applications attached to Blizzard's games?
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You can email hack replays to hacks@blizzard.com
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On July 28 2013 23:13 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:00 EtherealDeath wrote:On July 28 2013 22:44 grs wrote: The basic issue with all the hacks and cheats around is that the client receives all data about the game and just hides it from sight. Therefore the hidden information is still on the computer and there will always be a possibility to reveal it. I don't know if it is possible to have an RTS without sending out all data or if - latency wise - the game would still work serverside, where the server just sends out the information each specific client knows about. I doubt it though. In the end; the cheating will not be stopped. There was a paper recently on exactly that, rts design that would not noticeably affect latency but also allow for it being hack proof, at least on the client side. Probably too late for blizz to implement that though at this point in sc2's life. yep mostly run serverside is quiet possible, but for the not noticeable latency I guess everyone would have to pay 20 euro a month. And it is far from being immune towards cheating. At the end you need good Admins for online tournaments, thats all you can do. Everything else is just a bonus to aid them in their decision. Was a p2p protocol if i recall correctly
edit - http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/abstracts/onlinegames.html
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I played vs juicypeach 2 days ago and I felt like his play was really suspicious.
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JuicyPeach = Duran = Fabrauti who is listed in the TL maphacking thread just to clarify.
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i can add to this that i played several times vs imbatoss and always thought that he played weird. he only scouted when i played proxygates he has extremely bad micro (not even for a top 20 gm but for top master... and i have like 100 apm tops)
i also casted several games of him in german including the games mentioned by nerchio + a couple more pvz vs players like bly.
his forcefields were again aweful which is why he still often times loses against top players.
against hatch first => 13 forge canrush first position scout on whirlwind against roach rush 5(!!) cannons at front but not behind wall but really in front (pretty much useless against baneling bust but very effective vs roaches) against early pool no nexus before motershipcore zealot zealot and sentry with chronoboost +3rd pylon for wall. thats just not a normal opening.
non of this is 100% conclussive but i think if we gather more progamers stating that these players are "obviously" cheating leagues should consider banning them from tournaments... and yes ofc blizzard should find a way to help too...
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remember penguinplug in brood war? what about something like that?
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for definitive proof you need to break in his house when he's not home and take pictures of his maphack on his desktop with your phone, and if there is no map hack found on his pc, make sure to download it on the spot and then take the picture.
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Didn't Blizzard use Warden? I guess it's ineffective as always.
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On July 28 2013 23:09 synd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:02 Durmaz21 wrote: report the player to blizzard. if enough people does that blizzard will take a look at the guy and if given enough evidence, a ban can happen. its probably the only thing that can be done except raise awareness of the player (which this thread does; good job strelok) I don't know dude. To me it seems like the reporting system is just a visual feature but practically it doesn't do anything. I judge by the amount of people that were reported by at least 20+ people and they still maphack/cheat freely even now.
I'm kind of on your side of the fence, but I did also want to mention that there will be an added level of difficulty in screening complains - I've had a lot of reports made against myself on the ladder, and I play legit. Not necessarily for maphacking, more just the guy didn't like that I beat him and made his way into the 'confusing bm' forum for reporting me for winning, but that adds to the confusion. I mean, if someone was maphacking and played 100 games on ladder, how many of those 100 people would get suspicious enough to report? At higher levels, probably a lot more so, but even still, I'd bet that largely more than 50 wouldn't. Contrary, if a bunch of people were trolling on the ladder and know that maphacking is a hot-button topic, and they were to start just falsely reporting people because they were mad/trolling/whatever, how does Blizzard decipher what is and isn't legit?
I'd report anyway, having faith that a multi-billion dollar company has people who work for it that know more about this than I do, but man am I glad I'm not the employee who has to address this issue :/
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ImbaTosS has constantly been accused of hacking/cheating and I do really wonder why CPlay kept sending him out in team leagues and similar things. During our clanwar against CPlay I'd actually chat with CPlays Team Captain Jacko (who does seem to be a reasonable guy imo) and he had to say that he cannot fully defend ImbaTosS from what he has seen. He actually found more suspicious actions that my team did not even catch. Those things were impossible to not be noticed by CPlays management and it was really strange to still see CPlay use Imbatoss against Clarity (which they beat; 2 timess 2-0 by Imbatoss) in EES Qualifiers.
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seems like this is the only thing we can do. Raising awareness and hoping that tournament organizers and Blizzard react in some way :/
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On this matter I have to say though that if you think that someone hacks (be it maphack/prodtabhack or w/e) you'll start seeing things, that you wouldn't even notice when someone else has that same action but does not have the bad reputation of being a hacker. Also, the games against sgeht were the first 5 matches of imbatoss I've seen out of him. (I actually never heard of him before, I'm not in charge of the player roster, only for certain cw's). And well, after hearing that he's being suspected of being a hacker I also saw things in the replays which could just be completely random. And to be honest, NoN-eSports won 5-2 over sgeht as well so you cant blame one of our players for hacking just because he allkilled sgeht... Furthermore Imbatoss is starting to stream to prove everyone who suspects him of cheating wrong. Personally I'm influenced by people saying he hacks as I already mentioned, and that makes you see things.
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CS Go has a system called overwatch, selected player can watch anonymous replays and decide if the player is cheating, i think its a very good system, but one problem is that in Starcraft 2 its harder to detect cheats. Blizzard should try it.
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Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. What a ridiculous and pompous reply. Legally and techically impractical? I'm a lawyer by my day time profession and I'd like to know what law (and of which country) is being broken if you willingly install a program on your PC that either says 'SC2 verified clean' when a game starts or doesn't? Additionally how is it technically impractical? We're talking about tournaments here, not every single game on ladder.
I've played online for 15-16 years or so and during the original Quakeworld days, this is exactly what the entire European community did. IIRC the program was called QW/faq/z proxy or something to that direction, and what it did was check that none of your game files were modified, since a lot of people were using alternated player models and weapon beam models and such to make targeting easier. If a team wasn't using the program, they were disqualified. I don't remember anyone refusing to use it, in fact anyone not using it was ridiculed to death and labeled automatic cheaters. It works.
We're not allowed to link into hacks here, so I'll just say that currently the Blizzard protection is non-existent. There are entire message boards (you'll find them on google) dedicated to cheating in Blizzard games where people can find threads with download links into hacks, and the topics of discussion are mostly around 'how to not get caught'. For example, they have 'camera lock' buttons, where when you hold the button, you can go look into the enemy's base what he's building, but the camera is locked into your original position so when you view a replay it seems like the maphacker is just looking at his own units instead of the enemy base. When he releases the camera lock button, the game and the replay tracks his camera movement normally again. If every tournament was at a LAN where cheating is virtually impossible we'd have no big problem, but if we have online qualifiers to money leagues something should be done to address this situation.
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ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt.
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about imbatoss agree with nerchio He is streamcheating or mh, Maybe even he and juicypeach is same player)
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Online tournaments could require to run a program which takes screenshots in a random pattern and sends them to the admins. There is no need to run a program which scans the tasklist for suspicious programs. Screenshots, automatically taken and sent to the admins, should be enough.
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Quite funny, that many progamers agree with me about imbatoss and only him and his manager say the opposite. Interesting, will it be enough for some actions from tournament managers, or it will be only for talks.
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As a commoner, I wonder what is preventing the creation of a system which wouldn't send all the info to the client. Perhaps not having the entire game data at any given time would create some latency? Is it too complicated to get the games to sync as it goes?
It seems to me like maphacking is only possible because of cheap netcode and we're overdue for some innovation now.
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he blind counter me alltime :D like what ever i do D: and the point that it's soooo hard for toss to counter me, cos i scout alltime and counter toss))
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Bly, instead of just talking about it, I think it would be more helpful if you would upload replays to prove your suspicion. Just talking about stuff won't get you anywhere. I can also go and say "lol strelok mh's" because he runs into my natural with hellions exactly the moment im moving out (that actually happened^^). If I'd do that none could do anything about it until I was to post prove for it. So instead of idle suspicion and so on it would be better to support your statements with replays or vods or whatsoever. Just having a bad reputation doesn't mean that he actually cheats nor would Blizzard be able to do anything about it.
p.s: i dont really think you mh strelok dont worry
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I just love it when people defend themselves from accusations of being a maphacker with "But you can explain all the weirdness with this long list of highly unlikely, but not impossible explanations!".
Saying that you are innocent because you are not guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt is about as smart as being in CSI:Miami and saying "You can't prove anything!". It's not going to end well for you.
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I don't think SC2 encrypts and decrypts network game data, so you can still use production tab hacks run on a completely different computer.
And I would not be super stoked to see the return of Punkbuster, automatic screenshot tools and other league-specific crap tools on my computer. As with anti-malware tools, a cat-and-mouse game, which are
- deterring,
- privacy-invading (sending system info to who knows),
- system-nesting (faulty + possible slowing),
- false positives-producing and
- intransparent.
And according to ESL, expensive to produce (half a million wasted for ESL Wire Anti-Cheat).
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On July 29 2013 01:47 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:this will be the stream for the next weeks: http://www.twitch.tv/cplaytt_imbatoss u can check it out , i will stream ladder and all of my cups! It's proven you can hack and stream and not have the hack show, friend.
Good try.
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On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt.
Worst formatting ever.
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That's a very good way to react imo: Thank you for not taking it personnal and accepting to stream to clean your name.
On long term, this noise should go down if you keep showing your innocence.
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On July 29 2013 02:34 DnCL wrote: That's a very good way to react imo: Thank you for not taking it personnal and accepting to stream to clean your name.
On long term, this noise should go down if you keep showing your innocence. Only if he streams 100% of his games or at least 100% of his tournament games.
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Since streaming doesn't prove anything,please try to explain how it was possible for you to jump out of nowhere into top16 gm? And you really wanna tell me that u dont even hotkey the only speel your warpprism has?and u get supply blocked so damn often even though u are top 16 GM? weird stuff
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As the old adage says, "do it on LAN". I dont know who you are imbatoss, but if you are legit have you ever gone to a decent LAN event or do you only do online cups?
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I've also found the games I've seen of Imbatoss to be very suspicious (him vs goswser in today's go4sc2 for example). Streaming proves nothing - the proper move for Imbatoss would be him uploading his 20ish last replays. No picking, just straight up the last 20 or so, and then the community can see for itself if he really "knows his opponents" and has extreme luck in a majority of the games, or if he's just a strong player.
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imbatoss made it really far in go4sc2 cup and hes a maphacker....... Ive played him while not streaming and he always counters what Im doing without scouting it.
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why you dont prove what you say? i mean everybody can say that somebody hacks...
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On July 29 2013 01:28 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. What a ridiculous and pompous reply. Legally and techically impractical? I'm a lawyer by my day time profession and I'd like to know what law (and of which country) is being broken if you willingly install a program on your PC that either says 'SC2 verified clean' when a game starts or doesn't? Additionally how is it technically impractical? We're talking about tournaments here, not every single game on ladder. I've played online for 15-16 years or so and during the original Quakeworld days, this is exactly what the entire European community did. IIRC the program was called QW/faq/z proxy or something to that direction, and what it did was check that none of your game files were modified, since a lot of people were using alternated player models and weapon beam models and such to make targeting easier. If a team wasn't using the program, they were disqualified. I don't remember anyone refusing to use it, in fact anyone not using it was ridiculed to death and labeled automatic cheaters. It works. We're not allowed to link into hacks here, so I'll just say that currently the Blizzard protection is non-existent. There are entire message boards (you'll find them on google) dedicated to cheating in Blizzard games where people can find threads with download links into hacks, and the topics of discussion are mostly around 'how to not get caught'. For example, they have 'camera lock' buttons, where when you hold the button, you can go look into the enemy's base what he's building, but the camera is locked into your original position so when you view a replay it seems like the maphacker is just looking at his own units instead of the enemy base. When he releases the camera lock button, the game and the replay tracks his camera movement normally again. If every tournament was at a LAN where cheating is virtually impossible we'd have no big problem, but if we have online qualifiers to money leagues something should be done to address this situation.
Didn't iccups launcher do the same? It was more for just correctly latency.
Blizzard really just needs to step their game up. But the problem is, we aren't really being vocal about our concerns towards hackers. Need to be more persistent in AMA's blizzard hosts and ask what their security team does towards concerns of the problem (hacking) and if they even bother with counter-measures.
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On July 28 2013 22:44 grs wrote: The basic issue with all the hacks and cheats around is that the client receives all data about the game and just hides it from sight. Therefore the hidden information is still on the computer and there will always be a possibility to reveal it. I don't know if it is possible to have an RTS without sending out all data or if - latency wise - the game would still work serverside, where the server just sends out the information each specific client knows about. I doubt it though. In the end; the cheating will not be stopped.
Planetary annihilation is an rts using dedicated server networking that will prevent maphacks. You can find some information posted about this on there forums.
Cheating is being looked at from day one. It's part of why we like a client/server architecture. During development of SupCom we did consider the various ways clients could cheat but synchronous severely ties your hands. For example fog of war is always hackable simply because you have the information.
In PA all of the sim work is done server side. The only thing the client can inject are effectively "orders". Clients can't just randomly move objects around in an authoritative manner.
Many FPS games have at least some element of local control that is hackable. For example aim hacks, speed cheats etc. that rely on the server not being authoritative for all state. So they are usually a bit more hackable than an RTS. Most of this is to eliminate latency which is not an issue in RTS (at least not nearly as much). For example you could easily play a game like this with a 500ms ping.
So basically the clients input orders that come from your local UI. The server than sends back information based on your currently open views into the action. Things under the fog are not sent at all. The main issue with this architecture is that it requires more network bandwidth that a simply synchronous type setup. The server also has to do a lot of work which is why they are being architected to cluster if necessary. The nice thing is that if a local client is slow it can't slow down any of the other players in the game. It's really how fast your server is that matters more than anything.
We won't be able to prevent people from using trainers or AI bots completely. But any kind of direct cheat should be very difficult to pull off without server access.
Though maybe they can do it better than starcraft could because it is slower with less micro but a lot more units. He did mention sc2 in one of his posts though and seems to think they could do it. Maybe the community should bug Blizzard about this and see what they say.
One interesting thing to note is that TA was p2p but it wasn't synchronous. The net code in PA although different from TA has more in common than you would think.
One thing to keep in mind is that P2P is simply a network topology and that synchronous is the real issue that's different.
Originally SupCom was going to use a P2P async model similar to TA. EA's tech guys basically forced us to change that. When we did the analysis it didn't seem like a bad idea so we did change it, then they cancelled the game.
In retrospect the sync model really hurt SupCom badly. There is no fundamental reason we couldn't have use the model we are using now if we had thought of it back then. Although this game is being designed to take advantage of the larger amount of network bandwidth we have available.
I wanted to build a game at a fundamentally larger scale than sync sim can handle. Running at the speed of the slowest client really limits the ability scale. A p2p network topo also sucks for scaling. I also wanted to be able to multithread the sim code which is difficult to get much benefit out of when you are synchronous.
As to why other people are doing this, I think they are simply stuck in the past. Blizzard for example seems to just be copying their previous games with prettier graphics. I seriously doubt they ever considered changing the network model of star craft 2 because it's just outside the wheelhouse of traditional RTS tech.
I on the other hand think that the technology is a very important aspect of the game and am in a position to execute on that. It's worth noting that Dota2 is client server as well.
Enough of a rant?
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On July 29 2013 02:34 SearchEU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Worst formatting ever. Yeah. I just couldn't read it.
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Reminds me of themista. When streaming, no weird blind counters or odd builds. Not streaming, weird build counters, perfect drop stops lol.
On July 29 2013 03:26 2v2 NexuS wrote: why you dont prove what you say? i mean everybody can say that somebody hacks...
Nice first post defending a hacker....also from germany...also 1 post... 2on2 imbatoss 2v2 nexus
...lol really?
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I also lost to a maphacker in WCS qualifiers, blizzard arent doing too much about it sadly
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+1 for imbatoss maphacking.
rallied his observer to his mineral line vs an unscouted proxy dt tech. very suspicious warp ins at key places.
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iAmJeffReY u kiding right? ye there are only 1 german guy in this country that plays 2vs2.... gj *facepalm*
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Map hack is one of the big reasons that SC2 is dying. Blizzard isn't just spending the right amount of resources to improve their customer satisfaction and esports possibility of SC2
They are blind-sighted, spending millions dollars on WCS which is a huge failure compared to amount of money they put on
Instead, why don't they work on the FUNDAMENTALS? Like.. actually having a legitimate game that is fair for everyone?
This is why failure of SC2 is inevitable, blizzard is just DUMB. I don't want it to be dumb. But truth of the matter is, blizzard is ran by hopeless people that don't prioritize what's important and what's not.
SAD SAD SAD
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On July 29 2013 04:05 2v2 NexuS wrote: iAmJeffReY u kiding right? ye there are only 1 german guy in this country that plays 2vs2.... gj *facepalm* lol similar names, similar post count, similar grammar and word usage. Obvious 2v2 partner, or same user. Good try though, defending your hacking friend!
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On July 29 2013 03:53 TargA wrote: I also lost to a maphacker in WCS qualifiers, blizzard arent doing too much about it sadly Who? I heard alastor might also be maphacking
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iAmJeffReY ure not the smartest guy he? pls look in my matchhistory (NexuS#1611) i didnt play with him any time... i just obsed some games from him cause i heard he the same ...
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if u guys wanna prove or achieve something u should be more objective (like posting reps + explanation or w/e)
i cannot jugde how obvious a hacker can be determined by playing him and thereby getting the feeling that it must be the only solution.
but if u dont want to let it look like a witch hunt u have to get more concrete myb?
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If you dont hack, Imbatoss, why don't you just upload your last 50 games as replays - unfiltered. That way you could kind of proof, that you are not maphacking - not 100% of course, but it would show, that you are willing to proof yourself, instead of just promoting your twitch channel.
If you hack, pls get of SC2. If you do not, I whish all the best
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On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , I just had a look at your twitch channel which u can find a single VOD so far.DIdn't u say that you're playing the same builds every game ? Doesn't seem like it for me tbh. Ah,and what kind of build is it u played there? Seemed just kinda random,but it worked out in that game,what a surprise :O
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Such noobs, need to maphack to win and feel better about themselves.
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Hm. Can't people who've played vs him upload all the suspicious vods, post them here and then the community can go through them and see if the case is strengthened or weakened by them? Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but if Blizzard isn't doing anything about it then certainly they'll get banned by leagues.
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On July 29 2013 04:23 Heartland wrote: Hm. Can't people who've played vs him upload all the suspicious vods, post them here and then the community can go through them and see if the case is strengthened or weakened by them? Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but if Blizzard isn't doing anything about it then certainly they'll get banned by leagues. Yeah, that would be good first step imho Isn't there a thread dedicated to it?
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not quite sure what i should think about imbatoss... he was a low gm player in WoL, who only all-inned 1 base or 2 base. never thought he would maphack... now he is top 16 and has a 72% winrate in PvP although his mechanics didnt really improve. so either he gained an INSANE gameknowledge or hes maphacking.
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I also think that ImbaToss is hacking. He always wins PvP (very coinflippy matchup with luck involved). A lots of blind countering and I agree his micro is crap. I turned off replay saving but I will search for games vs him to upload here.
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maphack is fog of war removal right?
i think in old BW custom map, a way to kick maphackers, was to put a cannon owned by players on the low ground, and then a hostile computer controlled building on the high ground
so if a player has a maphack, their cannon will automatically attack the hostile computer building (which normal players should not see)
then the custom map kicks that player for maphacking
Have maphacks become more advanced to bypass that?
I mean it was quite simple back in the day...to do that in that custom map
All Blizzard has to do is put something like that in every ladder map, and auto kicks if detects maphack from a player
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Good night everyone,
someone asked if Imbatoss ever went to an offlinetournament. And I can say definetly no.
As it seems Imbatoss is from munich , because he played for Munich in the BCON-Clash. there were explicit rules , that only munich players or munich barcraft visitors are allowed to participate at the BCON-Clash. As I am from munich myself I really can't say that he has ever been to such an event. And something I should mention ist the MST- Munich Starcraft Tournament. It's a pretty big LAN in Munich and players like AcRo regurlarly participate at it. Someone like Imbatoss should actually participate at such an event, because he is TOP 20 GM right? So it's pretty suspicious non the less..
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looking for 원순철, mini launcher, or w/e koreans used back in bw...
LOL
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On July 29 2013 05:06 mikumegurine wrote: maphack is fog of war removal right?
i think in old BW custom map, a way to kick maphackers, was to put a cannon owned by players on the low ground, and then a hostile computer controlled building on the high ground
so if a player has a maphack, their cannon will automatically attack the hostile computer building (which normal players should not see)
then the custom map kicks that player for maphacking
Have maphacks become more advanced to bypass that?
I mean it was quite simple back in the day...to do that in that custom map
All Blizzard has to do is put something like that in every ladder map, and auto kicks if detects maphack from a player
If your hack allows your units to attack units that can't be seen normally, then it would be very obvious. In SC2 there were a few replays that contained orders to attack units that the player didn't scout before or in the same replay I saw the order indicators sometimes using its "flying" model (order flying units and you see it) when only ground units were ordered. I expect those hacks to be detected relatively fast.
In SCBW people used invalid units to crash the game when it attempts to render it. But the hacks evolved and made BW not crash. Then there are conditions with overflowing unitIDs or playerIDs to check some special values in the memory to identify specific hacks in BW which altered those memory values due to their injection, afaIk. But the hack author found a way around it again... It has always been a back and forth as you were only able to fight specific symptoms. :<
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Map hack is one of the big reasons that SC2 is dying. Blizzard isn't just spending the right amount of resources to improve their customer satisfaction and esports possibility of SC Although I don't agree with SC dying, I do think that maphacking being absolutely rife on ladder is a massive problem. Hacks are readily available to anyone within minutes and easy to install, and the chance of getting caught / suspended is minimal and to many people the only possible repercussion is having to buy a new copy of SC2 and then they can hack for another year on ladder again.
Instead of bugging David Kim about whether he thinks Widow Mines and whatnot are balanced, someone should really ask if they intend to make (and I use the word make instead of keep) SC2 a legitimate online e-sport in which cheating is either not possible or not tolerated.
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On July 29 2013 05:06 mikumegurine wrote: maphack is fog of war removal right?
i think in old BW custom map, a way to kick maphackers, was to put a cannon owned by players on the low ground, and then a hostile computer controlled building on the high ground
so if a player has a maphack, their cannon will automatically attack the hostile computer building (which normal players should not see)
then the custom map kicks that player for maphacking
Have maphacks become more advanced to bypass that?
I mean it was quite simple back in the day...to do that in that custom map
All Blizzard has to do is put something like that in every ladder map, and auto kicks if detects maphack from a player
I think this may be too arcaic for the maphacks that are out nowadays.
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On July 29 2013 05:56 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +Map hack is one of the big reasons that SC2 is dying. Blizzard isn't just spending the right amount of resources to improve their customer satisfaction and esports possibility of SC Although I don't agree with SC dying, I do think that maphacking being absolutely rife on ladder is a massive problem. Hacks are readily available to anyone within minutes and easy to install, and the chance of getting caught / suspended is minimal and to many people the only possible repercussion is having to buy a new copy of SC2 and then they can hack for another year on ladder again. Instead of bugging David Kim about whether he thinks Widow Mines and whatnot are balanced, someone should really ask if they intend to make (and I use the word make instead of keep) SC2 a legitimate online e-sport in which cheating is either not possible or not tolerated.
Let me guess what he would say. "Blizzard takes fair playing very seriously. If you think someone is hacking, please use the report function in-game". Something like this. Any generic answer.
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Blizzards strategy of banning in waves is also the worst strategy ever. If there were some technical ways they are detecting the hacks and ban because of that I would understand it. But for me it seems alot more like they are just banning very often reported players maybe once every 3 months. For these guys it's no problem to buy a new account every 3 months.
Banning in waves just doesn't work when it's done so rarely these guys don't care about buying a new accout. + Show Spoiler +Although the no1 reason for this is imho that they give Blizzard more money then the average fair player so why should they bother...
The only thing they could stop these things from happening is either to fix it technically somehow if this is even possible. If not they should implement an automatic banning if various people report a certain player. (although this has to be really refined and combined with replay checking because otherwise pro players would be reported just for fun)
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that imbatoss guy is primarily a teamgame player no? seems like teamgame players tend to be mhers more, from my exp.
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On July 29 2013 05:56 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +Map hack is one of the big reasons that SC2 is dying. Blizzard isn't just spending the right amount of resources to improve their customer satisfaction and esports possibility of SC Although I don't agree with SC dying, I do think that maphacking being absolutely rife on ladder is a massive problem. Hacks are readily available to anyone within minutes and easy to install, and the chance of getting caught / suspended is minimal and to many people the only possible repercussion is having to buy a new copy of SC2 and then they can hack for another year on ladder again. Instead of bugging David Kim about whether he thinks Widow Mines and whatnot are balanced, someone should really ask if they intend to make (and I use the word make instead of keep) SC2 a legitimate online e-sport in which cheating is either not possible or not tolerated.
well tbh i don't think hacking is such a big deal to them, unfortuately. most of the players in sc2 are not really affected by hackers, just think of all the people that picked up sc2 only to play the campaign, maybe some customs, maybe do some light laddering only to then move on to another game. the ones that really have to deal with hackers are the ones in masters/grandmasters, who are really trying to get good at the game. here hacking causes a toxic effect where frustration may cause some aspiring players to join the dark side... but really, the point is hacking doesn't hurt sc2 to the point where blizz feel they are losing money because of hackers. if anything, they may be making a profit from the die hard hackers who buy new accounts all the time.
the main problem with this game isn't hackers, but ill give you a clue to what it is, and it starts with a P and ends with a... nah, not gonna go there
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On July 29 2013 07:00 Durmaz21 wrote:well tbh i don't think hacking is such a big deal to them, unfortuately. most of the players in sc2 are not really affected by hackers, just think of all the people that picked up sc2 only to play the campaign, maybe some customs, maybe do some light laddering only to then move on to another game. the ones that really have to deal with hackers are the ones in masters/grandmasters, who are really trying to get good at the game. here hacking causes a toxic effect where frustration may cause some aspiring players to join the dark side... but really, the point is hacking doesn't hurt sc2 to the point where blizz feel they are losing money because of hackers. if anything, they may be making a profit from the die hard hackers who buy new accounts all the time. the main problem with this game isn't hackers, but ill give you a clue to what it is, and it starts with a P and ends with a... nah, not gonna go there
It might be GM and Masterplayers that have "big issues" with hackers, but some hackers apparently are so bad, that theyre around diamond/platinum leagues. I cant tbh say myselfe ive met any hackers yet, but i prob have since im playing dia/plat players all the time. I know im not good at this game at all, but the feeling when something aint right, and you cant do shit about it is a terrible one. It dont make playing more fun, since nothing happends.
(Huge sidenote, as for lower leagues, people using trollaccounts is also terrible annoying, and demotivating as ...)
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I think blizzard needs to give more power to the community regarding this, since they won't be able to make improvements to their software or hire people to do the banhammering. What if every known progamer and esports personality could simply ban a person from battlenet if 10 or more of them agreed? Or blizzard could hand banhammers to trusted community members (TL admins, Progaming team managers, casters, etc.) There are lots of ways that are better than doing what blizzard does right now...
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On July 28 2013 23:21 Zenbrez wrote: You can email hack replays to hacks@blizzard.com
Would be interesting to have some insight if the community thinks this method is producing results. My experience with it is negative. I used the mentioned e-mail adress 20 or 21 times during Warcraft III. Checking ~6 weeks after my reports every single one (yes, seriously 100%) of the accused battle-net accounts was gone. So either reporting produced results or Warden did.
In Starcraft II I used it twice. The second time was a long game, maphack was extremely obvious, I called out the opponent during the game, he even confirmed maphacking in chat. This was early in WoL. The account is still active (or was in April/May, I didn't play much since then), I have it on my friends list. Didn't use hacks@blizzard.com since.
Also looking at the reports coming in from WoW and Diablo III, I am afraid Blizzard is currently unable to crack down on cheating in its games or unwilling to invest what it takes to keep the situation under control.
I am by no means insinuating they are doing a worse job than other companies with their online games, it is my non-representative impression they are doing a worse job than they used to.
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I'm sure Blizzard is working to stop map hackers. The problem is these fuckers keep reinventing their cheats. Unfortunately, I highly doubt blizzard will ever respond to this topic or others like it because they want to keep their efforts secret (for obvious reasons).
It would be nice to make an example out of the big map hackers. Like a perm ban from blizzard games.
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On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money.
of course its practical and legal. anti-virus programs do the same.
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Make every event offline.
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At this point I highly doubt Imbatoss is even german with the lack of any offline event presence, no acknowledgment that he is even within munich from its own community as he has never been to a barcraft/anything and just eerily similar grammatical ways as that of Farbauti/Duran/JuicyPeach (as some1 that has encountered him before)
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i feel we dont need a thread like this. we already have a hacker thread all of this has been discussed to death/continues to be discussed over there.
just creates more angst in the community.
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On July 29 2013 11:04 Eggi wrote: i feel we dont need a thread like this. we already have a hacker thread all of this has been discussed to death/continues to be discussed over there.
just creates more angst in the community.
putting your head back in the sand screaming "ITS NOT HAPPENING'' with your hands on your ears wont make it go away... I guess this is the way some of us found to get in touch with other ppl who got haxxxed by fucking turds who need crutchtes to play the game.
Just let them be. And I personnaly don't feel bad about that guy. If they can smear him with enough shit maybe he'll find something else to do.
And about the angst stuff, I dont know for the others but knowing that there are people who care and fight to keep the game ''clean'' is all good with me.
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The only way to prove or stop most hacking would be to have online players video their games screen and keyboard and if anything sus happens than they must submit the video. this video has to start from log in to end of game. if they cannot submit the video it counts as a lose.
Not perfect but better than looking trough replays and seeing if anything "strange" happens.
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Canada16217 Posts
On July 29 2013 12:39 Trojanoz wrote: The only way to prove or stop most hacking would be to have online players video their games screen and keyboard and if anything sus happens than they must submit the video. this video has to start from log in to end of game. if they cannot submit the video it counts as a lose.
Not perfect but better than looking trough replays and seeing if anything "strange" happens. that won't happen ever, far too extreme.
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Osaka26957 Posts
On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt.
Anyone who writes like this is a hacker.
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On July 29 2013 12:49 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Anyone who writes like this is a hacker.
I assume this guy is German so it's a bit harsh to say this about someone communicating in their second language. Maybe writing a clear well worded response in their original language might reveal a more eloquent individual - the text above looks more like a SMS than proper English though.
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On July 29 2013 02:34 SearchEU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Worst formatting ever.
Every time someone tries to defend themselves from MH accusations this is what it looks like. They just write one long paragraph of terrible English. It's almost as if people who MH are stupid.
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the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament
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they could make people submit first person views possibly.
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I usually put around 2-3 cannons in the mineral lines of my bases when I'm playing against a Zerg in the mid-late game (I do this to try to prevent myself from losing because of unexpected muta switches). In some cases, my opponent does fly in surprise-mutas to my bases after a minute or to two the cannons were finished. Now, if he accuses me of maphacking because of this, I really can't say much other than the fact that I was playing really safe, which isn't always the most trustworthy answer. At least it seems to me that the best way to make innocent people innocent would be having an anti-hack program in the client, but what do I know about programming;;
Hate maphackers T.T
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On July 29 2013 04:05 2v2 NexuS wrote: iAmJeffReY u kiding right? ye there are only 1 german guy in this country that plays 2vs2.... gj *facepalm*
hope TL checks your IP, thats always hilarious.
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On July 29 2013 12:55 Trojanoz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 12:49 Manifesto7 wrote:On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Anyone who writes like this is a hacker. I assume this guy is German so it's a bit harsh to say this about someone communicating in their second language. Maybe writing a clear well worded response in their original language might reveal a more eloquent individual - the text above looks more like a SMS than proper English though.
hmmmmm no hes actually right about that
On December 28 2012 14:25 TT1 wrote: ROFL FUCKING ZERG IS SO BROKEN IN HOTS THIS SHIT IS SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS. I TRIED EVERY ARMY COMP AND I KEPT GETTING ROLLED BY 200 200 LING ULTRA, FUCKING MELEE UNITS KEPT RAPING MY COLLOSUS/HT/IMMORTAL/ARCHON/ZEAL ARMYS. I WAS RAPING THIS MOTHERFUCKING SCRUB ZERG WITH DROPS ALL GAME LONG UNTIL HE HAD NO ECO, I TOLD MYSELF THAT ID DEFINETLY RAPE HIM BY ADDING SOME VOIDRAYS TO MY COMP CUS HE WAS COMMITING TO MASS GROUND AND WAS BROKE BUT NOP MOTHERFUCKER SCORPION HOOKED MY VOIDS W/ HIS PIECE OF SHIT VIPERS AND RAPED THEM WITH QUEENS. SHIT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE, A FUCKING TIER 1 UNIT RAPED MY 200 200 8K ARMY VALUE. FUCKING MUTALISKS ARE UNCATCHABLE AND THEY REGEN THEIR HP FAST AS FUCK, IF U TRY TO COUNTER THEM WITH PHOENIXS THEY SWITCH TO HYDRAS W/ SPEED WHILE HAVING 100X UR ECON CUS PROTOSS IS A TRASHASS TECH HEAVY LOW ECON RACE WHEREAS ZERG CAN MAKE 30 DRONES IN A SECOND CUS THEYRE COOL LIKE THAT. OH YEA AND THEN THEY HAVE VIPERS, THESE MOTHERFUCKERS BASICALLY TURN EVERY ARMY COMPOSITION THAT THEY HAVE INTO AN UNSTOPPABLE A MOVING MACHINE. FUCKING RETARDED GAME GO SUCK A FUCKING DICK PIECE OF SHIT HOTS
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On July 29 2013 12:58 TT1 wrote: the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament I think an antihack launcher would break the terms of use as much as the hacks themselves.
Tournament organizers could probably make a tool that buffers a few frames then takes a screenshot at random. The buffer being necessary since a hack developer could probably intercept the screenshot request, disable for an instant, then re-enable afterwards. This way though, if somebody is accused or suspected they have screenshots they can examine. Though this is tedious. Shouldnt break any rules though I dont think.
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On July 29 2013 13:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 12:58 TT1 wrote: the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament I think an antihack launcher would break the terms of use as much as the hacks themselves. Tournament organizers could probably make a tool that buffers a few frames then takes a screenshot at random. The buffer being necessary since a hack developer could probably intercept the screenshot request, disable for an instant, then re-enable afterwards. This way though, if somebody is accused or suspected they have screenshots they can examine. Though this is tedious. Shouldnt break any rules though I dont think. Not sure how it would break any terms if it was made by Blizzard themselves. I already mentioned the possibility of this with their upcoming Blizzard Desktop Launcher on page 2 in this thread, but I guess most ignored it or missed it.
EDIT: The other suggestion make it seems so complicated. If a MH have something to intercept the screenshot being taken, then it should be fairly obvious that he can't deliver a screenshot to tournament admins, which makes guilty. (If we assume that the program works every time). This also sounds difficult to do for online tournament, but for offline, is it really necessary? What about the FPVOD-times of BW? Why is that never being done? It's the same as standing behind players and checking their screens.
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On July 29 2013 12:58 TT1 wrote: the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament
That would not do anything because the way the MH are coded and used by pass the blizzard launcher, and the way Anti warden protection works on these map hacks negates anything a launcher would do.
And blizzard tried launcher based detection systems back in start of warcraft 3 when they were perfecting warden and it failed hard.
Also even 3rd party versions platforms for games aka garena, the Hack devs just cracked/ re done their protection for their hack.
And in sc2 the main coder for a certain mh that is being abused mostly by semi pro chinese players using it on GM Korea, is making profit off his hack and has a entire team keeping it updated and safe from Blizzard. He is a software dev himself which can be very costly for blizzard to combat.
Also people who are not so tech savvy or understand real world laws......There is only so much a company can do to detect 3rd party software on other peoples computers before they start breaking some laws.
Blizzards warden is pretty much what they are allowed to do as far as finding hacks via software detection. And there are a few ways blizzard can stop some of these hacks but again it requires a vast amount of money and the correct anti cheat dev to pull it off...
There is NEVER going to be a 100% perm solution, there will always be flaws in software and always be people willing to exploit it.
Internet hacking is a cat and mouse game that most gaming companies don't want to spend a fortune playing.
I'm sure Blizzard is trying their best, But its 2013 and reverse engineering has became so much more advanced making hacking 10x harder to stop.
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On July 29 2013 13:39 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 12:55 Trojanoz wrote:On July 29 2013 12:49 Manifesto7 wrote:On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Anyone who writes like this is a hacker. I assume this guy is German so it's a bit harsh to say this about someone communicating in their second language. Maybe writing a clear well worded response in their original language might reveal a more eloquent individual - the text above looks more like a SMS than proper English though. hmmmmm no hes actually right about that Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 14:25 TT1 wrote: ROFL FUCKING ZERG IS SO BROKEN IN HOTS THIS SHIT IS SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS. I TRIED EVERY ARMY COMP AND I KEPT GETTING ROLLED BY 200 200 LING ULTRA, FUCKING MELEE UNITS KEPT RAPING MY COLLOSUS/HT/IMMORTAL/ARCHON/ZEAL ARMYS. I WAS RAPING THIS MOTHERFUCKING SCRUB ZERG WITH DROPS ALL GAME LONG UNTIL HE HAD NO ECO, I TOLD MYSELF THAT ID DEFINETLY RAPE HIM BY ADDING SOME VOIDRAYS TO MY COMP CUS HE WAS COMMITING TO MASS GROUND AND WAS BROKE BUT NOP MOTHERFUCKER SCORPION HOOKED MY VOIDS W/ HIS PIECE OF SHIT VIPERS AND RAPED THEM WITH QUEENS. SHIT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE, A FUCKING TIER 1 UNIT RAPED MY 200 200 8K ARMY VALUE. FUCKING MUTALISKS ARE UNCATCHABLE AND THEY REGEN THEIR HP FAST AS FUCK, IF U TRY TO COUNTER THEM WITH PHOENIXS THEY SWITCH TO HYDRAS W/ SPEED WHILE HAVING 100X UR ECON CUS PROTOSS IS A TRASHASS TECH HEAVY LOW ECON RACE WHEREAS ZERG CAN MAKE 30 DRONES IN A SECOND CUS THEYRE COOL LIKE THAT. OH YEA AND THEN THEY HAVE VIPERS, THESE MOTHERFUCKERS BASICALLY TURN EVERY ARMY COMPOSITION THAT THEY HAVE INTO AN UNSTOPPABLE A MOVING MACHINE. FUCKING RETARDED GAME GO SUCK A FUCKING DICK PIECE OF SHIT HOTS This post needs to go down in TL history. This is beautiful TT1.
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On July 29 2013 14:27 Varuuna wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 13:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 29 2013 12:58 TT1 wrote: the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament I think an antihack launcher would break the terms of use as much as the hacks themselves. Tournament organizers could probably make a tool that buffers a few frames then takes a screenshot at random. The buffer being necessary since a hack developer could probably intercept the screenshot request, disable for an instant, then re-enable afterwards. This way though, if somebody is accused or suspected they have screenshots they can examine. Though this is tedious. Shouldnt break any rules though I dont think. Not sure how it would break any terms if it was made by Blizzard themselves. I already mentioned the possibility of this with their upcoming Blizzard Desktop Launcher on page 2 in this thread, but I guess most ignored it or missed it. EDIT: The other suggestion make it seems so complicated. If a MH have something to intercept the screenshot being taken, then it should be fairly obvious that he can't deliver a screenshot to tournament admins, which makes guilty. (If we assume that the program works every time). This also sounds difficult to do for online tournament, but for offline, is it really necessary? What about the FPVOD-times of BW? Why is that never being done? It's the same as standing behind players and checking their screens. Blizzard already has warden. Automatic hack detection is really really hard. Which is why I mentioned my manual labor intensive solution. Let me explain it a bit more clearly, since I think you may have missed what I am saying:
You can have a hack that turns itself off, then back on. You can have it do this automatically if a call is heard to take a screenshot. So it turns itself off before the screenshot takes, then turns itself back on afterwards.
If you have a 20 frame buffer (that is to say, 20 frames from the past always stored and being overwritten, fraps has the option to use this for video recording in case you do something awesome, though I think it is like 20 seconds and not 20 frames) then these are things that have already passed. It cant be turned off, then back on after the screenshot happened.
Any hacks that are always on will always be seen. I imagine hacks would then be toggled instead of always on, but some will still get caught by chance with this.
To me, it is the best non-invasive, legal (AFAIK) method of seeing if somebody is hacking. Problem being, you have to use a person to look at each screenshot from every suspected person.
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On July 29 2013 14:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 14:27 Varuuna wrote:On July 29 2013 13:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 29 2013 12:58 TT1 wrote: the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament I think an antihack launcher would break the terms of use as much as the hacks themselves. Tournament organizers could probably make a tool that buffers a few frames then takes a screenshot at random. The buffer being necessary since a hack developer could probably intercept the screenshot request, disable for an instant, then re-enable afterwards. This way though, if somebody is accused or suspected they have screenshots they can examine. Though this is tedious. Shouldnt break any rules though I dont think. Not sure how it would break any terms if it was made by Blizzard themselves. I already mentioned the possibility of this with their upcoming Blizzard Desktop Launcher on page 2 in this thread, but I guess most ignored it or missed it. EDIT: The other suggestion make it seems so complicated. If a MH have something to intercept the screenshot being taken, then it should be fairly obvious that he can't deliver a screenshot to tournament admins, which makes guilty. (If we assume that the program works every time). This also sounds difficult to do for online tournament, but for offline, is it really necessary? What about the FPVOD-times of BW? Why is that never being done? It's the same as standing behind players and checking their screens. Blizzard already has warden. Automatic hack detection is really really hard. Which is why I mentioned my manual labor intensive solution. Let me explain it a bit more clearly, since I think you may have missed what I am saying: You can have a hack that turns itself off, then back on. You can have it do this automatically if a call is heard to take a screenshot. So it turns itself off before the screenshot takes, then turns itself back on afterwards. If you have a 20 frame buffer (that is to say, 20 frames from the past always stored and being overwritten, fraps has the option to use this for video recording in case you do something awesome, though I think it is like 20 seconds and not 20 frames) then these are things that have already passed. It cant be turned off, then back on after the screenshot happened. Any hacks that are always on will always be seen. I imagine hacks would then be toggled instead of always on, but some will still get caught by chance with this. To me, it is the best non-invasive, legal (AFAIK) method of seeing if somebody is hacking. Problem being, you have to use a person to look at each screenshot from every suspected person. I think I understand now what you mean. Your previous post, however, suggested that it would deny the screenshot being taken rather than the hack turning itself off.
On a different note, I'm more confused about something else I noticed in this thread; Hacks can be run on a remote computer to a different one? How does that work? I always thought hacks needed to hook onto the process on the comp itself.
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I feel like it's only a matter of time before everyone map hacks in online tournaments and nobody can say anything about it.
Who knows if this is prevalent now?
Anyone with brain can get away with suspicions with fake scouting
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On July 28 2013 22:41 Nerchio wrote:I played imbatoss in one of the cups and i thought the same, i think i even wrote to him he was streamcheating, but let's not jump to conclusions
not to be a dick or anything, but werent people sure that you maphacked for quite a long time?
Turned out you didnt.
Im just saying, lets not jump to conclusions
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On July 29 2013 15:20 Varuuna wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 14:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 29 2013 14:27 Varuuna wrote:On July 29 2013 13:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 29 2013 12:58 TT1 wrote: the real question should be why hasnt anyone made an antihack launcher yet? ;; its odd that blizzard hasnt dealt with this issue yet, especially when WCS is primarely an online tournament I think an antihack launcher would break the terms of use as much as the hacks themselves. Tournament organizers could probably make a tool that buffers a few frames then takes a screenshot at random. The buffer being necessary since a hack developer could probably intercept the screenshot request, disable for an instant, then re-enable afterwards. This way though, if somebody is accused or suspected they have screenshots they can examine. Though this is tedious. Shouldnt break any rules though I dont think. Not sure how it would break any terms if it was made by Blizzard themselves. I already mentioned the possibility of this with their upcoming Blizzard Desktop Launcher on page 2 in this thread, but I guess most ignored it or missed it. EDIT: The other suggestion make it seems so complicated. If a MH have something to intercept the screenshot being taken, then it should be fairly obvious that he can't deliver a screenshot to tournament admins, which makes guilty. (If we assume that the program works every time). This also sounds difficult to do for online tournament, but for offline, is it really necessary? What about the FPVOD-times of BW? Why is that never being done? It's the same as standing behind players and checking their screens. Blizzard already has warden. Automatic hack detection is really really hard. Which is why I mentioned my manual labor intensive solution. Let me explain it a bit more clearly, since I think you may have missed what I am saying: You can have a hack that turns itself off, then back on. You can have it do this automatically if a call is heard to take a screenshot. So it turns itself off before the screenshot takes, then turns itself back on afterwards. If you have a 20 frame buffer (that is to say, 20 frames from the past always stored and being overwritten, fraps has the option to use this for video recording in case you do something awesome, though I think it is like 20 seconds and not 20 frames) then these are things that have already passed. It cant be turned off, then back on after the screenshot happened. Any hacks that are always on will always be seen. I imagine hacks would then be toggled instead of always on, but some will still get caught by chance with this. To me, it is the best non-invasive, legal (AFAIK) method of seeing if somebody is hacking. Problem being, you have to use a person to look at each screenshot from every suspected person. I think I understand now what you mean. Your previous post, however, suggested that it would deny the screenshot being taken rather than the hack turning itself off. On a different note, I'm more confused about something else I noticed in this thread; Hacks can be run on a remote computer to a different one? How does that work? I always thought hacks needed to hook onto the process on the comp itself.
One time i saw on one CS 1.6 server something like that Admin forced screnshots that were automatically taken and saved to players pc after player get ban until he upload all screnshots that was taken on page... and admin checks .. if clear unban.
In this is force to player to do something and if he hacks he can try something like photoshop etc but it is clear everytime he use it.
Very effective and preventive way tho. No one need to analyze replays when he can do this to catch cheater of guard.
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Wouldn't it be normal to prove he is hacking from replays instead of asking him to prove he is not?
On July 29 2013 12:55 Trojanoz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 12:49 Manifesto7 wrote:On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Anyone who writes like this is a hacker. I assume this guy is German so it's a bit harsh to say this about someone communicating in their second language. Maybe writing a clear well worded response in their original language might reveal a more eloquent individual - the text above looks more like a SMS than proper English though. Really? We don't all write in retard-style.
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No need to waste time making a program to detect maphacks. The authors of maphacks will find a way around it. It starts this back and forth that just leads to frustration. Tournaments need to train their admins to look for the type of behavior listed in the OP during the match. A set of eyes actually watching the match is far superior to any program.
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Should we write a petition to blizzard? Should we write to Browder, Kim, other SCII team members? Should we ask progamers to ask questions to blizz stuff on events? Should we mass tweet/mail to blizz SCII team members?
No reaction from blizz is so frustrating. At least ladder abusers should be banned. Ban waves are not so effective. Rare ban waves - not effective at all.
Played with this JuicyPeach, btw. (aka Farbauti).
There were some other MH's during my career. Not a lot, but pretty annoying quantity.
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On July 29 2013 17:25 Baarn wrote: No need to waste time making a program to detect maphacks. The authors of maphacks will find a way around it. It starts this back and forth that just leads to frustration. Tournaments need to train their admins to look for the type of behavior listed in the OP during the match. A set of eyes actually watching the match is far superior to any program.
yes but it takes time to come up with a maphack that can bypass an antihack program, it takes alot of coding etc. in tsl2 tl had us play on some antihack program that i assume r1ch made so he would know alot more on this topic. im sure blizzard has the resources to hire 1 person to make them a new AH launcher for every new WCS season/tournament phase (i.e qualis/group stages/ro32 etc), that would put everyones mind at ease
but yes it would probably be extremely hard to have a general-based antihack program because it would require constant updating etc.. again this is only an assumption, i have no idea how much coding is required in order to have an updated AH on bnet. that being said the least that they can do is to implement one for bigger tourneys
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On July 29 2013 17:25 Baarn wrote: No need to waste time making a program to detect maphacks. The authors of maphacks will find a way around it. It starts this back and forth that just leads to frustration. Tournaments need to train their admins to look for the type of behavior listed in the OP during the match. A set of eyes actually watching the match is far superior to any program. It is a back and forth yes, and it is unlikely they will be able to really prevent maphacks from being possible. But that doesn't mean they should ignore it, then soon no one plays SC2 anymore without maphack, since those who don't want to use one just go looking for another game with fewer cheaters.
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there are ways to patch map hacks. But when you hit the ladder don't worry about people hacking... most people do not hack.
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Yet another reason why lan is so important.
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On July 29 2013 18:52 MarlieChurphy wrote: Yet another reason why lan is so important. Just another post, where brain would be important: How does LAN help against hacking in online-cups?
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On July 29 2013 18:55 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 18:52 MarlieChurphy wrote: Yet another reason why lan is so important. Just another post, where brain would be important: How does LAN help against hacking in online-cups?
Because someone who does well online (and other players suspect he is hacking) but suck on LANs can be good intel that player is hacking. Therefore, you can compare playstyles, decision making, etc and be 100% sure about it.
For example, if Imbatoss starts winning a lot of online cups under this accusations and doesent showup for WCG qualies, its suspicious. and if he shows up and play poorly its clear.
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On July 29 2013 19:01 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 18:55 grs wrote:On July 29 2013 18:52 MarlieChurphy wrote: Yet another reason why lan is so important. Just another post, where brain would be important: How does LAN help against hacking in online-cups? Because someone who does well online (and other players suspect he is hacking) but suck on LANs can be good intel that player is hacking. Therefore, you can compare playstyles, decision making, etc and be 100% sure about it. For example, if Imbatoss starts winning a lot of online cups under this accusations and doesent showup for WCG qualies, its suspicious. and if he shows up and play poorly its clear.
It's still not helping if he only plays online cups. I would not have been aggressive like that but yeah. It won't help.
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I've played ImbaTosS in go4sc2 finals during the dreamhack and won him 3-1. I've watched over the replays and it was obviously he was hiding it in front all of the casters, but you could still see the tech counters. Next games vs him were in EMS qualifier team league cup #2, where the first game he was either cheating on skype with the observing person or maphacking hardcore, he countered my every move and action, sent runbys to secret expansions etc. So from my objective perspective, ImbAtosS is a maphacker, not a stream cheater
And it's just surprising how can someone unknown come top at tournaments (go4sc2 finals) and beating much better players like Strelok and going from totally bottom GM ladder to top 16 in 2-3 days lol>
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Why doesnt blizz do like valve in dota2, if you dont have vision, the server doesnt give you information about the region in the fog of war. They just forced drm to prevent hackers in sc2, botters in diablo 3 and failed hard, and still wait 3 years to ban "in waves", making player experience on the ladder bad.
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i downloaded some imbatoss replays. although he loses quite a few games, because his micro and decisionmaking in fights just aren´t good, he never gets caught offguard. NEVER. which is even more impressive, because the quantity of his scouting (obs, hallu) are more platinum than gm level. in the replay analysis i posted in the hacker thread, he never scouts the zerg main. in a 25 minutes game!
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On July 29 2013 19:28 vidium wrote: Why doesnt blizz do like valve in dota2, if you dont have vision, the server doesnt give you information about the region in the fog of war. They just forced drm to prevent hackers in sc2, botters in diablo 3 and failed hard, and still wait 3 years to ban "in waves", making player experience on the ladder bad.
Because some unit can hit from the fog of war, as not all units/buildings have same vision range and some units have more than enough to outrange vision range with attack range. So, to make it work, you should send all the informations of the units that is going to "appear" in the game. It can be possibile for dota2 where there are very few units, but when you have hundreds of units it can't be applied without connection issue. As far as I know the only thing that passes through connection is the action the player do, plus maybe the random delay on shoots. Otherwise replays couldnt' be few KB.
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On July 29 2013 21:20 eusoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 19:28 vidium wrote: Why doesnt blizz do like valve in dota2, if you dont have vision, the server doesnt give you information about the region in the fog of war. They just forced drm to prevent hackers in sc2, botters in diablo 3 and failed hard, and still wait 3 years to ban "in waves", making player experience on the ladder bad. Because some unit can hit from the fog of war, as not all units/buildings have same vision range and some units have more than enough to outrange vision range with attack range. So, to make it work, you should send all the informations of the units that is going to "appear" in the game. It can be possibile for dota2 where there are very few units, but when you have hundreds of units it can't be applied without connection issue. As far as I know the only thing that passes through connection is the action the player do, plus maybe the random delay on shoots. Otherwise replays couldnt' be few KB.
But planetary annialation has a lot of units and is using the same server based architecture that eliminates maphacks as dota 2. I posted about it earlier in the thread. How are they able to do it but it is technically impossible to do in sc2?
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given how many pros have commented and agree with imbatoss maphacking, i think its only a matter of time until he's gone good riddance!
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On July 29 2013 19:28 vidium wrote: Why doesnt blizz do like valve in dota2, if you dont have vision, the server doesnt give you information about the region in the fog of war. They just forced drm to prevent hackers in sc2, botters in diablo 3 and failed hard, and still wait 3 years to ban "in waves", making player experience on the ladder bad.
Because kits that let you see the map read everything passively from memory in your computer. It's all performed client side.
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There has been some research going on into solving this problem at Stanford. It's kind of a long read but they offer a solution that does work. Here is the link to their thoughts in pdf format if anyone cares to read it. http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/onlinegames.pdf
Edit: I'd suggest reading this also if you want to know how maphacks work.
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Translation for those of us lesser fortunate people who don't speak Russian?
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On July 29 2013 19:01 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 18:55 grs wrote:On July 29 2013 18:52 MarlieChurphy wrote: Yet another reason why lan is so important. Just another post, where brain would be important: How does LAN help against hacking in online-cups? Because someone who does well online (and other players suspect he is hacking) but suck on LANs can be good intel that player is hacking. Therefore, you can compare playstyles, decision making, etc and be 100% sure about it. For example, if Imbatoss starts winning a lot of online cups under this accusations and doesent showup for WCG qualies, its suspicious. and if he shows up and play poorly its clear. That would happen with or without LAN. The real reason why offline events prevent hackers is beause they can't play on their PC. Even if they get the hack on the tournament PC, the opponent can just go "Yo, that game was BS, check that PC for hacks."
On July 29 2013 21:51 Baarn wrote:There has been some research going on into solving this problem at Stanford. It's kind of a long read but they offer a solution that does work. Here is the link to their thoughts in pdf format if anyone cares to read it. http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/onlinegames.pdf
Oh man, this is super interesting, but a dense read. I might have to print this one out just so I can reference previous sections easier.
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On July 29 2013 02:02 Djzapz wrote: As a commoner, I wonder what is preventing the creation of a system which wouldn't send all the info to the client. Perhaps not having the entire game data at any given time would create some latency? Is it too complicated to get the games to sync as it goes?
It seems to me like maphacking is only possible because of cheap netcode and we're overdue for some innovation now.
I couldn't see another reply that covered it satisfactory, so:
- Replays always contain both sides, so all information has to be available one way or the other.
- UMS maps can have triggers where an action from a unit outside of vision range effects something inside vision range, e.g. "If player 1 moves a unit to point X,Y then spawn 10 units of the same type on the opponents side" - player 2's game doesn't know which unit is on point X,Y - so synchronising that kind of maps would add a lot of other problems with lots of exceptions for those situations everywhere in the code, leading to more bugs. LoL can do it because it has no custom games.
- Constantly sending updates about which units are visible or not requires a lot more bandwidth than just sending the orders, reducing the server and bandwidth requirements by at least 90%. A single game of SC2 could literally run with a 386 as server since it just moves network data around.
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Only fair way to counter map hacker is to map hack yourself So eventually map hack will be part of the game itself. Map hack vs Map hack progame...
from what blizzard is doing, this is their vision of SC2 going forward
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On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. care to explain?
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On July 29 2013 22:31 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. care to explain? To make it access the information you want, you need to integrate it into the launcher. You can't do that legally. Blizzard will stop that. Even if you can somehow get a third party software do what is needed without Blizzard stopping you, it will be very difficult to get that to run on every tournament out there. There scene is much too diverse for that. Note that I did not write impossible, but impactical. Anyways: Either Blizzard steps up or online tournaments/qualifiers will be target for hackers/cheaters.
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I get so pissed off when i lose to someone thats clearly map hacking it makes me want to quit the game or maphack myself. Lots of people that map hack and aren't high GM are open about it aswel since they know there are no consequences it's pretty fucking sad.
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User was warned for this post
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On July 29 2013 21:51 Baarn wrote:There has been some research going on into solving this problem at Stanford. It's kind of a long read but they offer a solution that does work. Here is the link to their thoughts in pdf format if anyone cares to read it. http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/onlinegames.pdfEdit: I'd suggest reading this also if you want to know how maphacks work.
Sadly this program would technically be against SC2 TOS. The only way would be for Blizzard to make an official version and require all tournament participants to run it while in a tournament. They would also have to change the seed before every round. But looking at this paper if Blizzard was serious about their online qualifiers they could easily do something like this. If a player doesn't feel comfortable running a program like this, they simply don't participate in the tournament. As for ladder, they most likely would not force everyone to run a program like this to play ladder, so the only safe place would be online tournaments.
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Personally i dont think blizz cares too much about ladder, now its just about the big WCS and the pro scene. Maybe they think hackers are just random and rare event on the ladder so they are not a big threat. I just wonder why no one who interviews David Kim, Justin Browder or other blizz staff related to SC2 development asks them about hackers. Like in the last interview wirth DK in China they were only asking about why not buff this or nerf that...
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On July 29 2013 22:05 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 02:02 Djzapz wrote: As a commoner, I wonder what is preventing the creation of a system which wouldn't send all the info to the client. Perhaps not having the entire game data at any given time would create some latency? Is it too complicated to get the games to sync as it goes?
It seems to me like maphacking is only possible because of cheap netcode and we're overdue for some innovation now. I couldn't see another reply that covered it satisfactory, so: - Replays always contain both sides, so all information has to be available one way or the other.
- UMS maps can have triggers where an action from a unit outside of vision range effects something inside vision range, e.g. "If player 1 moves a unit to point X,Y then spawn 10 units of the same type on the opponents side" - player 2's game doesn't know which unit is on point X,Y - so synchronising that kind of maps would add a lot of other problems with lots of exceptions for those situations everywhere in the code, leading to more bugs. LoL can do it because it has no custom games.
- Constantly sending updates about which units are visible or not requires a lot more bandwidth than just sending the orders, reducing the server and bandwidth requirements by at least 90%. A single game of SC2 could literally run with a 386 as server since it just moves network data around.
Thanks you, I'm surprised somebody answered
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On July 29 2013 23:27 StreetWise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 21:51 Baarn wrote:There has been some research going on into solving this problem at Stanford. It's kind of a long read but they offer a solution that does work. Here is the link to their thoughts in pdf format if anyone cares to read it. http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/onlinegames.pdfEdit: I'd suggest reading this also if you want to know how maphacks work. Sadly this program would technically be against SC2 TOS. The only way would be for Blizzard to make an official version and require all tournament participants to run it while in a tournament. They would also have to change the seed before every round. But looking at this paper if Blizzard was serious about their online qualifiers they could easily do something like this. If a player doesn't feel comfortable running a program like this, they simply don't participate in the tournament. As for ladder, they most likely would not force everyone to run a program like this to play ladder, so the only safe place would be online tournaments.
It seems impossible to protect a game against maphacks 100%. Simply put, you're running software on your computer, and any maphack detection software is asking your computer questions about what's in memory, what's on your screen, what threads are running, etc. The detection software uses these answers to judge if you are using any cheats of any sort.
The problem is that you can write software that lies about the answer to all of these questions. Battle.net asks how much memory is taken up by 'revealed map data', and your maphack makes this 100Kb. However, your hack keeps track of how much *should* be taken up, and replies '12Kb'. Battle.net sees an acceptable answer and the hack is undetected. Punkbuster asks your client for a screenshot, your hack intercepts this request, turns off the hack for one frame, takes a screenshot, and sends it.
Encryption is not reasonable because the cheater controls one of the endpoints (his PC). No encryption can work when you have access to the memory and instruction set one of the endpoints is using.
It's a cat and mouse game, because anti-hacks can keep coming up with new ways to detect hacks, and the hacks have to update and adapt to dealing with those, which is why we can get these waves of bans we all love. But I'm afraid it's a problem that's never going to be solved.
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Just make when someone targets something not in their vision they get kicked and perma banned.
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I play with imbatoss few times on ladder, he definetly MH Привет стрелок очень хорошо что ты создал эту тему, надо как то шевелить комюнити и близард чтобы более активно относились к данной проблеме, спасибо тебе за стримы которые ты устраиваешь, и вообще желаю тебе удачи в карьере и личной жизни
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also played vs imbatoss and heard from alot of other player that he is hacking, now he is trying to stream so you think he isnt hacking but there is still a second monitor.
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On July 30 2013 01:10 Extenz wrote: Just make when someone targets something not in their vision they get kicked and perma banned. The hacks will prevent the players from selecting shit that's not in their vision.
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We need something drastic to let blizzard know how serious this issue is.
We need progamers retiring and saying MH was one of the main reasons that they quit, or something to that effect
What we need is a publicity, saying how 30% of NA GM ladder is MHer's (might be exaggerated but should be close) and MHer's can get away with any online tournaments without any suspicion
For instance, if a pro player map hacks and he fake scouts and act intelligently enough to not get caught. Can anybody contest that he did map hack? The answer is no. The benefit is TOO GREAT. yet risk is MINIMAL.
Think about it.... why WOULDN'T YOU?
as things are right now, blizzard is just picking their nose, laughing and wasting their money... as dumb as a company can get that's their size
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There is another way to combat hacking that Blizzard should consider which has nothing to do with detecting hacks.
1. Make scouting less difficult. That was done from WoL to HotS and I believe universally applauded, but it needs to be even more so. It needs to be so easy that there are no surprises at average player level and up and both sides know what the other guy is doing, dropping, building, etc.
2. Make micro more important than counter builds/units. Give units more ways to be micro intensive to beat things they historically couldn't beat. Half the posts in this thread are about bad micro on the accused yet counters being implemented blindly and winning games. I really wish Starcraft 2 wasn't so micro-unfriendly for this to be the case.
3. Slow down the game speed a little bit. This automatically makes #1 and #2 easier without even changing the game.
Balance would need to be tweaked after doing any of these things, naturally.
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On July 30 2013 04:38 Blacklizard wrote: There is another way to combat hacking that Blizzard should consider which has nothing to do with detecting hacks.
1. Make scouting less difficult. That was done from WoL to HotS and I believe universally applauded, but it needs to be even more so. It needs to be so easy that there are no surprises at average player level and up and both sides know what the other guy is doing, dropping, building, etc.
2. Make micro more important than counter builds/units. Give units more ways to be micro intensive to beat things they historically couldn't beat. Half the posts in this thread are about bad micro on the accused yet counters being implemented blindly and winning games. I really wish Starcraft 2 wasn't so micro-unfriendly for this to be the case.
3. Slow down the game speed a little bit. This automatically makes #1 and #2 easier without even changing the game.
Balance would need to be tweaked after doing any of these things, naturally. So your solution is to change the entire game and make it so that everybody effectively has map hacks? No thanks.
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I would not want to change the game that much, but I tell you hacks are becoming a problem on ladder and last time that happened I stopped playing BW. I don't want it to happen to SC2.
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On July 30 2013 05:03 Blacklizard wrote: I would not want to change the game that much, but I tell you hacks are becoming a problem on ladder and last time that happened I stopped playing BW. I don't want it to happen to SC2. You stopped playing BW because you were frustrated. BW mechanical and micro skill was so high that if you were good, it wouldnt matter excessively if they map hacked or not because your units would just beat theirs or you would have so much production that they couldnt keep up. Making it so that everybody technically has hacks does not make the game better, it makes it significantly worse.
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I'm not sure what Blizzard can do on their end to shut down map-hacks, but it would be nice if SC2 had some sort of anti-cheat add-on or plugin like most titles that you get on Steam.
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In my opinion MH s were allways a problem in sc2 but the pro scene doesent care much about it because ladder was allways just practice money and fame came from the big tournaments
But now since WCS online qualifier and the fact that u can establish your name by having good results at weekly cups the fact that really good players and this who really deserve it get cheated of there chance breaking into the esport scene is a big problem
To be honest i ll never make jsut 1$ out of sc2 so i dont care much about maphacks anyway for sure i get pissed when i loose because my opponent clearly hacks but 2 games later i dont even remember Also blizzard dont care what people like me think or if i have a problem witch cheater they tell everytime the same shitty answers like "we do all we can to prevent people doing it" but in the end there is no pressure i can come up with
So what i want to say its you have to take action and "you" are all the people which are involved in esport (professional player, caster, coaches, big names of the community) and get blizzard to fokus on that problem
For example next time someone interviews david kim dont ask "is the balance okay" say "there are xy% of maphacker in every gml and blizzard even let them play at wsc qualifires what do you think about it and what will blizzard do about" if he gets asked over and over again maybe he will say fuck it we take action now
Or another example players can wear shirts at tournaments with requests for blizzard to take action and so on
the problem is like i said blizzard does not care about if people like me get problems with hacker on ladder because there is not pressure i can get to them but u can
sry for bad englisch!
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On July 30 2013 05:12 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 05:03 Blacklizard wrote: I would not want to change the game that much, but I tell you hacks are becoming a problem on ladder and last time that happened I stopped playing BW. I don't want it to happen to SC2. You stopped playing BW because you were frustrated. BW mechanical and micro skill was so high that if you were good, it wouldnt matter excessively if they map hacked or not because your units would just beat theirs or you would have so much production that they couldnt keep up. Making it so that everybody technically has hacks does not make the game better, it makes it significantly worse.
One condescension deserves another I suppose, so here goes. Back then I had the ear of the main designer, and when Pardo asked if it was worth it to turn off fog of war entirely to eliminate maphackers ruining ladder I responded with "Well, it'd be more fair, but it'd ruin the game". So yes, I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you are understanding me.
Probably a year later I more or less quit the game, in no small part to maphacking being rampant; and I refused to resort to maphacking. Also real life took over actually... I have to give some credit to my wife.
However, implementing things like "giving units more micro" is certainly not ruining the game. Implementing even more scouting while drastic, would only ruin gimmicks. So terrible?
And actually, as bad as maphacks were, the game of SC1/BW continued to thrive despite probably the majority of competitive players using hacks online. So I guess even going so far as removing fog of war wasn't enough to destroy the game. The game lasted because it was just that good. Can't SC2 hold up the test of time if more micro is involved and less hidden gimmicks?
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On July 30 2013 06:09 Blacklizard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 05:12 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 30 2013 05:03 Blacklizard wrote: I would not want to change the game that much, but I tell you hacks are becoming a problem on ladder and last time that happened I stopped playing BW. I don't want it to happen to SC2. You stopped playing BW because you were frustrated. BW mechanical and micro skill was so high that if you were good, it wouldnt matter excessively if they map hacked or not because your units would just beat theirs or you would have so much production that they couldnt keep up. Making it so that everybody technically has hacks does not make the game better, it makes it significantly worse. One condescension deserves another I suppose, so here goes. Back then I had the ear of the main designer, and when Pardo asked if it was worth it to turn off fog of war entirely to eliminate maphackers ruining ladder I responded with "Well, it'd be more fair, but it'd ruin the game". So yes, I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you are understanding me. Probably a year later I more or less quit the game, in no small part to maphacking being rampant; and I refused to resort to maphacking. Also real life took over actually... I have to give some credit to my wife. However, implementing things like "giving units more micro" is certainly not ruining the game. Implementing even more scouting while drastic, would only ruin gimmicks. So terrible? And actually, as bad as maphacks were, the game of SC1/BW continued to thrive despite probably the majority of competitive players using hacks online. So I guess even going so far as removing fog of war wasn't enough to destroy the game. The game lasted because it was just that good. Can't SC2 hold up the test of time if more micro is involved and less hidden gimmicks? I dont really know who you are, so forgive me ahead of time if you are a great progamer from the late BW era that I missed... but how did you get the ear of Pardo and why would he ask you if removing fog of war would be a good idea? Why would he not ask any of the other multitudes of well known great players? Idra, Tyler, Artosis, etc etc.?
I stopped playing BW in 2004/2005, but not due to hacks. What makes you think that so many people hacked in BW? Do you have proof? Is this only on the bnet servers or also on iccup?
I am all for giving units more micro, but removing gimmicks and giving everybody free access to knowing what the other person is doing is not good for the game. Hidden dark shrine, hidden spire, or hidden starport need to be in the game. I mean... if you allow perfect scouting, you may as well remove units like dark templars.
Also, BW continued to thrive because most people didnt play bnet public games. They played with friends, they played with teammates, they practiced, they competed, and above all there was korea and proleague/starleague.
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I've seen various casted games of Imbatoss and i am really sure that this guy is hacking. Like everybody said - he is blindcountering everything.
JuicyPeach has definitely a maphack. I just played him and uploaded a replay for you. Judge yourself. It's pretty obvious i feel . http://drop.sc/352169
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just played vs one more hacker : intruder... n/c bnet full of hack
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hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us .
I watched a VOD of imbatoss and found a little programm called "Autohotkey" in his soundsettings. proove: http://imgur.com/93COMqK so further i was researching on maphack in general, since it seems the EU-Ladder is full of them atm. So **MOD EDIT PLEASE DO NOT LINK TO HACKS AS TO FASCILITATE THEIR USE** here is the hack he is probably using.
Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C.
The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking .
User was warned for this post
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haha nice found + proof +1, ImbaTosS was totally unknown, he wasn't even gm, now he is suddenly top 16 grandmaster and top at online tournaments lol. Stupid hacker.. gj with the find!
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On July 30 2013 19:07 Jogginghose wrote:hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us . Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C. The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking .
Mods need to mod these map hacking threads a lot more........WHY ARE U LINKING MAP HACKS AND THE WEBSITE FOR THE DIRECT DOWNLOAD OF IT MY GOD.
Sorry use common sense here. You could of simply not linked the god dam hack it self and simply said he is using a external hack which displays overlays that wont show in a stream rather doing what you just did. Can a mod remove his post please.
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Mod Edit: Removed quote because it contained links to a hacking site.
haha epic find! good job ^_^
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What exactly does that program do?^^
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Maphacking is always going to be on ladder and online tourneys.
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User was banned for this post.
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So why does blizzard not just force you to have something similiar to anti-hack from bw running while you play and then show u at the start of the game whether both players have it or not?
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On July 30 2013 19:29 IcyDrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:07 Jogginghose wrote:hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us . Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C. The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking . Mods need to mod these map hacking threads a lot more........WHY ARE U LINKING MAP HACKS AND THE WEBSITE FOR THE DIRECT DOWNLOAD OF IT MY GOD. Sorry use common sense here. You could of simply not linked the god dam hack it self and simply said he is using a external hack which displays overlays that wont show in a stream rather doing what you just did. Can a mod remove his post please. Common sense < google. You can just search for those on google anyways. Anyone who wants to use them probably already does.
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On July 30 2013 19:32 Lorch wrote: So why does blizzard not just force you to have something similiar to anti-hack from bw running while you play and then show u at the start of the game whether both players have it or not?
Because that would not do anything......external hacks can't be detected via software without doing illegal activity on blizzards end that would get them sued and shut down so fast.
External hacks don't inject anything or edit anything into the game itself immune to any legal software detection like warden,
Internal hacks inject and can be detected but the ones out are protected by warden and also can't be found with warden unless there off sets are detected, but the hack dev constantly updates the off sets of the hack so warden scans don't do anything.
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Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly.
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On July 30 2013 19:35 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:29 IcyDrow wrote:On July 30 2013 19:07 Jogginghose wrote:hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us . Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C. The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking . Mods need to mod these map hacking threads a lot more........WHY ARE U LINKING MAP HACKS AND THE WEBSITE FOR THE DIRECT DOWNLOAD OF IT MY GOD. Sorry use common sense here. You could of simply not linked the god dam hack it self and simply said he is using a external hack which displays overlays that wont show in a stream rather doing what you just did. Can a mod remove his post please. Common sense < google. You can just search for those on google anyways. Anyone who wants to use them probably already does.
It's against Team Liquids forum rules to link directly to 3rd party hack sites...mods in the past always banned users doing so or gave them warnings while deleting their posts.
It's common sense to take screen shots and edit out the website where you can download such hacks use your brain please.
You can perfectly use screen shots to prove with out providing the download link for hack....come on now.
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On July 30 2013 19:32 Lorch wrote: So why does blizzard not just force you to have something similiar to anti-hack from bw running while you play and then show u at the start of the game whether both players have it or not?
Antihack software is embedded in the very game, so everyone is running it. The problem is that it's not impossible to write hacks that can't be detected, at least not at that point.
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Well done Jogginghose, well done! Every tournament that he won prizes of should sue him for illegaly winnig prize money with hacks imo. I'm pretty sure that this is suable.
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On July 30 2013 19:36 IcyDrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:35 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 19:29 IcyDrow wrote:On July 30 2013 19:07 Jogginghose wrote:hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us . Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C. The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking . Mods need to mod these map hacking threads a lot more........WHY ARE U LINKING MAP HACKS AND THE WEBSITE FOR THE DIRECT DOWNLOAD OF IT MY GOD. Sorry use common sense here. You could of simply not linked the god dam hack it self and simply said he is using a external hack which displays overlays that wont show in a stream rather doing what you just did. Can a mod remove his post please. Common sense < google. You can just search for those on google anyways. Anyone who wants to use them probably already does. It's against Team Liquids forum rules to link directly to 3rd party hack sites...mods in the past always banned users doing so or gave them warnings while deleting their posts. It's common sense to take screen shots and edit out the website where you can download such hacks use your brain please. You can perfectly use screen shots to prove with out providing the download link for hack....come on now. I have used my brain. Whether TL bans users for posting those links is a completely different thing. All I am saying is, that people can get that hacks by googling and don't need a forum post. That is what my brain told me, I don't know about yours.
To add a further point: All this secrecy is not helping the fighting against hacks anyways. The more public these methods get, the better it is, because it raises awareness.
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On July 30 2013 19:36 gillon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:32 Lorch wrote: So why does blizzard not just force you to have something similiar to anti-hack from bw running while you play and then show u at the start of the game whether both players have it or not? Antihack software is embedded in the very game, so everyone is running it. The problem is that it's not impossible to write hacks that can't be detected, at least not at that point.
So then someone explain to me how anti-hack could work so well for bw and how blizzards piece of shitty software is obviously failing so insanely hard. Or is it just bigger population = more assholes?
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On July 30 2013 19:39 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:36 gillon wrote:On July 30 2013 19:32 Lorch wrote: So why does blizzard not just force you to have something similiar to anti-hack from bw running while you play and then show u at the start of the game whether both players have it or not? Antihack software is embedded in the very game, so everyone is running it. The problem is that it's not impossible to write hacks that can't be detected, at least not at that point. So then someone explain to me how anti-hack could work so well for bw and how blizzards piece of shitty software is obviously failing so insanely hard. Or is it just bigger population = more assholes? There were a lot of people cought hacking after playing online games in BW too. There was not such a widespread competitive and international onlince scene for BW.
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You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T
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On July 30 2013 19:43 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T What a coincidence your autohotkey software uses the same icon as the hack. Such bad luck
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On July 30 2013 19:39 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:36 gillon wrote:On July 30 2013 19:32 Lorch wrote: So why does blizzard not just force you to have something similiar to anti-hack from bw running while you play and then show u at the start of the game whether both players have it or not? Antihack software is embedded in the very game, so everyone is running it. The problem is that it's not impossible to write hacks that can't be detected, at least not at that point. So then someone explain to me how anti-hack could work so well for bw and how blizzards piece of shitty software is obviously failing so insanely hard. Or is it just bigger population = more assholes?
Without knowing anything about computer sci yourself it's very hard to get players to understand how expensive and hard it is to play cat and mouse game with online hacking. Also you have to take any real world laws and what companies are allow and not allowed to do when it comes to detecting things on other peoples computers ect ect.
I already explained several times in this thread, but people just seem to blame blizzard and /rant.
Blizzard is doing what they can, with the resources they have. We don't know the situation with their anti hack department, as of last year Blizzard has had a job opening for that very slot, in the mean time it's very hard to keep updating warden vs internal hacks that have protection vs it.
And Blizzard can do very little vs External hacks which provide overlay information but don't inject into the game itself because of real world internet privacy laws and other things that are illegal.
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On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly.
How you mean ? I cant believe that maphackers will start perfect scouting or blind countering only because they learnt it from playing with hacks?
In the other side, what does that Autohotkey anyways? I saw in link auto inject, wouldnt it help only to zergs?
Btw, it's clear this guy is using some 3rd parties and that hes hacker, it would just be nice if we clarified some things I mentioned.
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Just read the linked hack: + Show Spoiler +Detection Lists:
Provides a verbal (and minimap) warning when the enemy builds a specified unit/building.
MiniMap/Overlays:
Full Minimap Hack Custom Unit Highlighting Unit Panel (similar to the observer panel) Temporarily Disable Minimap hack Hostile Colour Assist Display Local Player Colour Display spawning races/locations Income Overlay Resource Overlay Army Size Overlay Local Harvester Count Idle Worker Count All overlays are easily resizeable and moveable
Zerg Injects:
Semi-Auto (one button) Injects Fully-Automatic Injects Audio/verbal Inject reminders
Auto Worker Production
Unit Grouping:
Auto Unit Grouping Restrict Unit Grouping
Chrono Boost Warpgates
Macro Warnings:
Five tier supply warning Idle Worker Worker Production Unconverted Gateways
Misc Automations:
Select Army function Unit spread Remove One Unit
Misc:
Maximise SC2 when a match begins Display the spawning races and their locations with a race symbol Quick minimap ping Announce current worker count Announce enemy worker count
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You know that every auto hotkey programm i has the same icon , still it has nothing to do with maphacking just because u have the programm
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"How to fuck yourself" good job Jogginghose,i'm glad you found this and that Imbatoss' story will get published asap
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ok .... why do you need this programm Imbatoss?????
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Its pretty clear now that he is a maphacker.
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On July 30 2013 19:45 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:43 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T What a coincidence your autohotkey software uses the same icon as the hack. Such bad luck The fact some hack apparently uses AutoHotkey and the developer is too lazy to change the icon does not mean some guy hacks because he also uses AutoHotkey for something else. That 'H' in green is just the default AutoHotkey icon, and AutoHotkey can be used to do all sorts of things. I mean I use a AutoHotkey script to change my Caps Lock key into a multimedia key (e.g., Caps Lock + F1 = Play/Pause music) and disable its default functionality.
Though from his comment apparently he does use the AutoHotkey program to 'hotkey his buildings', which is already a bit shady as it apparently gives him some kind of advantage.
Regardless, my point was AutoHotkey can be used in many, many totally legit ways which have nothing to do with StarCraft and/or hacks.
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On July 30 2013 19:43 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T
I ´ll quote the Sc2 terms of use:
A. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Starcraft II experience;
Since Autohotkey isnt a authorized third-party....
Good job inspector Hose !
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I wonder how many people use these kind of software (go4sc2, eps, zotac~ etc)
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On July 30 2013 19:56 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:45 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 19:43 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T What a coincidence your autohotkey software uses the same icon as the hack. Such bad luck The fact some hack apparently uses AutoHotkey and the developer is too lazy to change the icon does not mean some guy hacks because he also uses AutoHotkey for something else. That 'H' in green is just the default AutoHotkey icon, and AutoHotkey can be used to do all sorts of things. I mean I use a AutoHotkey script to change my Caps Lock key into a multimedia key (e.g., Caps Lock + F1 = Play/Pause music) and disable its default functionality. Though from his comment apparently he does use the AutoHotkey program to 'hotkey his buildings', which is already a bit shady as it apparently gives him some kind of advantage. Regardless, my point was AutoHotkey can be used in many, many totally legit ways which have nothing to do with StarCraft and/or hacks.
just curious, does your autohotkey programm show up in your audiosettings? I'm not that familiar with windows .
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On July 30 2013 19:31 IcyDrow wrote:not really he of you know??? not link the freaking hacking site for others Can someone whos been on tl for a year or has + report his post so a mod can delete or pm him to edit out the direct link to the hack jesus use common sense here, we are trying to prevent hacks not spread it on this site to.
Everyone has free access to hacks, they are one google search and two clicks away. We can at least show the hackers that we know what programs they are using and will bust them.
On another note. Targa just said on Twitter that Alastor, who competed in many tournaments and is currently in WCS EU Challenger is also hacking... this is getting out of hand.
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On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly.
Great, i always thought MH just ruined the game but now there is actually a verry good reason/excuse for using one. This will no doubt be verry tempting for manny players.
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On July 30 2013 20:02 Jogginghose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:56 dani` wrote:On July 30 2013 19:45 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 19:43 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T What a coincidence your autohotkey software uses the same icon as the hack. Such bad luck The fact some hack apparently uses AutoHotkey and the developer is too lazy to change the icon does not mean some guy hacks because he also uses AutoHotkey for something else. That 'H' in green is just the default AutoHotkey icon, and AutoHotkey can be used to do all sorts of things. I mean I use a AutoHotkey script to change my Caps Lock key into a multimedia key (e.g., Caps Lock + F1 = Play/Pause music) and disable its default functionality. Though from his comment apparently he does use the AutoHotkey program to 'hotkey his buildings', which is already a bit shady as it apparently gives him some kind of advantage. Regardless, my point was AutoHotkey can be used in many, many totally legit ways which have nothing to do with StarCraft and/or hacks. just curious, does your autohotkey programm show up in your audiosettings? I'm not that familiar with windows . Not for me at least with the normal version from http://www.autohotkey.com/.
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Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not
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On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly.
even sadder is that's just not true that's like saying if you take a practice test with your answer key and get 100, you've gotten better as compared to taking the test without the answer key. ability to look at the answer then solving will get players to be proficient at cheating, not legit playing
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so its to hotkey buildings (100% doable in sc2) and you still click with mouse on the unit hotkeys to access 0 - 9. also stop / start youtube tabbing out ingame even tho you have it bound on key. also, really need to mute that autohotkey program for some reason, but definitely not because it gives audiowarnings about enemy?
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On July 30 2013 20:11 SpecialistSc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly. even sadder is that's just not true that's like saying if you take a practice test with your answer key and get 100, you've gotten better as compared to taking the test without the answer key. ability to look at the answer then solving will get players to be proficient at cheating, not legit playing
Naama is right. At least if the hacker is not complete dumb. You can look at timings and improve. When I am ingame and I have a supplylead and/or advantage, often times I don't realize. With a hack, you would realize, you would know your timings in and out and you would also learn about their builds and timings.
As said, its really if you are into the game, hack would provide information that help to improve the understanding part of the game, not in the mechanics. Still its cheating and shouldn't be accepted.
ImbaToSs said he uses this program to automatically hotkey his buildings/units, that in itself is bannable offense and should be followed up by a ban from tournaments and Teamliquid. If he does also use the other features and/or he really maphacks I cannot comment on, personally from the evidence, it would lead me to believe yes, he does.
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On July 30 2013 20:08 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not No, it is not all programs. Some more examples:
Calibre E-Book Management, Notepad and VLC don't show up for me.
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On July 30 2013 20:16 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:08 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not No, it is not all programs. Some more examples: Calibre E-Book Management, Notepad and VLC don't show up for me. Cause they are listed under a different Audio Device? Did u check it ?
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On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening.
Doesn't Blizzard already use "Warden"? Also, the problem is, how to detect it. As long as StarCraft2 is running on your computer you can just freely manipulate the (to be) executed commands and the data in the RAM. You can write software, that monitors accesses to certain areas of the RAM i.e. but it's still possible to bypass. It's just "relatively" easy to manipulate software on a local system and that's why even punkbuster isn't 100% safe. You can use checksums to verify the integrity of certain files/programs, but then again... It's running on your system... you can just let the CPU jump over the codeblocks which are comparing the checksums, or manipulate the returned values themselves.
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On July 30 2013 20:17 tarrantius wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:16 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 20:08 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not No, it is not all programs. Some more examples: Calibre E-Book Management, Notepad and VLC don't show up for me. Cause they are listed under a different Audio Device? Did u check it ? Yes, I did.
My audio devices:
Show under other device (none):
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Yes, I did.
So you proofed the normal Autohotkey doesnt show up there.
Imbatoss next round of excuses , its your turn :D
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to quote spock: "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" so for me JAEH it can be he is not guilty, but the protection of the whole community is more importent, then the career of a single one ... jaeh we can catch a few who was just lucky, but to improve the game for ten thousends, bans should be thrown away like cookies !!!!!!!!!! for bm, for harrassment, for being a douchebag for suspection of cheat, hack, streamchat whatever ...
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looks like CPLAY is convinced already
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On July 30 2013 20:16 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:11 SpecialistSc wrote:On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly. even sadder is that's just not true that's like saying if you take a practice test with your answer key and get 100, you've gotten better as compared to taking the test without the answer key. ability to look at the answer then solving will get players to be proficient at cheating, not legit playing Naama is right. At least if the hacker is not complete dumb. You can look at timings and improve. When I am ingame and I have a supplylead and/or advantage, often times I don't realize. With a hack, you would realize, you would know your timings in and out and you would also learn about their builds and timings. As said, its really if you are into the game, hack would provide information that help to improve the understanding part of the game, not in the mechanics. Still its cheating and shouldn't be accepted. ImbaToSs said he uses this program to automatically hotkey his buildings/units, that in itself is bannable offense and should be followed up by a ban from tournaments and Teamliquid. If he does also use the other features and/or he really maphacks I cannot comment on, personally from the evidence, it would lead me to believe yes, he does.
i remember in sc1 times, playing with vision from enemy on at custom games for exactly that purpose, jaeh ... but still its no excuse ...
On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience.
i think EA wanted to do something like that, they stopped after a big shitstorm of spy on user computer etc ...
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On July 30 2013 20:29 Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:16 NarutO wrote:On July 30 2013 20:11 SpecialistSc wrote:On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly. even sadder is that's just not true that's like saying if you take a practice test with your answer key and get 100, you've gotten better as compared to taking the test without the answer key. ability to look at the answer then solving will get players to be proficient at cheating, not legit playing Naama is right. At least if the hacker is not complete dumb. You can look at timings and improve. When I am ingame and I have a supplylead and/or advantage, often times I don't realize. With a hack, you would realize, you would know your timings in and out and you would also learn about their builds and timings. As said, its really if you are into the game, hack would provide information that help to improve the understanding part of the game, not in the mechanics. Still its cheating and shouldn't be accepted. ImbaToSs said he uses this program to automatically hotkey his buildings/units, that in itself is bannable offense and should be followed up by a ban from tournaments and Teamliquid. If he does also use the other features and/or he really maphacks I cannot comment on, personally from the evidence, it would lead me to believe yes, he does. i remember in sc1 times, playing with vision from enemy on at custom games for exactly that purpose, jaeh ... but still its no excuse ...
I didn't say it was.
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On July 30 2013 20:30 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:29 Drake wrote:On July 30 2013 20:16 NarutO wrote:On July 30 2013 20:11 SpecialistSc wrote:On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly. even sadder is that's just not true that's like saying if you take a practice test with your answer key and get 100, you've gotten better as compared to taking the test without the answer key. ability to look at the answer then solving will get players to be proficient at cheating, not legit playing Naama is right. At least if the hacker is not complete dumb. You can look at timings and improve. When I am ingame and I have a supplylead and/or advantage, often times I don't realize. With a hack, you would realize, you would know your timings in and out and you would also learn about their builds and timings. As said, its really if you are into the game, hack would provide information that help to improve the understanding part of the game, not in the mechanics. Still its cheating and shouldn't be accepted. ImbaToSs said he uses this program to automatically hotkey his buildings/units, that in itself is bannable offense and should be followed up by a ban from tournaments and Teamliquid. If he does also use the other features and/or he really maphacks I cannot comment on, personally from the evidence, it would lead me to believe yes, he does. i remember in sc1 times, playing with vision from enemy on at custom games for exactly that purpose, jaeh ... but still its no excuse ... I didn't say it was.
nono thats not what i mean i mean in their minds it is the excuse and they think "oh even without cheat i am better but i do it to learn" etc ... their minds are just broken ^_^
On July 28 2013 23:09 synd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:02 Durmaz21 wrote: report the player to blizzard. if enough people does that blizzard will take a look at the guy and if given enough evidence, a ban can happen. its probably the only thing that can be done except raise awareness of the player (which this thread does; good job strelok) I don't know dude. To me it seems like the reporting system is just a visual feature but practically it doesn't do anything. I judge by the amount of people that were reported by at least 20+ people and they still maphack/cheat freely even now.
because this "report" system isnt working ... if you rape a noob it happens OFTEN enough hes like "oh you cheat i going report you, you will get banned motherf...." etc ... so there are for sure thousends of people reported by alot noobs who did never cheat or even looked like, just some noobs cant lose. so its super hard find the true reports in all of the shitty reports
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On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: [blablabla] ... and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt.
for me thats the sollution for nearly everything, i remember the mistrzzz the polish guy in sc1 everyone thought he maphack ? then he streamed every of his games too. if someone is suspected cheating and has the connection, if you stream all your tournament/league etc games, i think the people will stop mention it. but if you only stream ladder and not the tournament/leagues then its selfgoal
On July 29 2013 12:58 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 02:34 SearchEU wrote:On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt. Worst formatting ever. Every time someone tries to defend themselves from MH accusations this is what it looks like. They just write one long paragraph of terrible English. It's almost as if people who MH are stupid.
so you call him "stupid" because he has bad english ? or even just "write" bad english ? i write terrible english and i had an A in school ... its just you never use it in germany cause everything is on german so you just get used to shitty english like this ... please if hes cheater or not, dont just call him stupid because he has not the best english lol ,,, perhaps frensh was his 2nd language
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On July 29 2013 01:33 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: [blablabla] ... and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt.
make sure to have a webcam on ur monitor, if u have a 2nd monitor u can run a maphack on it so it wouldnt prove anything
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On July 30 2013 19:07 Jogginghose wrote:hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us . I watched a VOD of imbatoss and found a little programm called "Autohotkey" in his soundsettings. proove: http://imgur.com/93COMqKso further i was researching on maphack in general, since it seems the EU-Ladder is full of them atm. So **MOD EDIT PLEASE DO NOT LINK TO HACKS AS TO FASCILITATE THEIR USE** here is the hack he is probably using. Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C. The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking .
so i have to read 9 pages to find the ultimate proov ? xD
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On July 30 2013 20:55 Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:07 Jogginghose wrote:hey guys. i did some more research and i am really glad imbatoss streamed some games for us . I watched a VOD of imbatoss and found a little programm called "Autohotkey" in his soundsettings. proove: http://imgur.com/93COMqKso further i was researching on maphack in general, since it seems the EU-Ladder is full of them atm. So **MOD EDIT PLEASE DO NOT LINK TO HACKS AS TO FASCILITATE THEIR USE** here is the hack he is probably using. Thats how the interface looks like: http://imgur.com/wel7C. The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking . so i have to read 9 pages to find the ultimate proov ? xD Yes, you can stop quoting random posts from pages 1-8 now
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On July 30 2013 20:53 TT1 wrote:Kristoffer M @TargA01 1h So many hackers in europe atm, intruder, imbatoss alastor, juicypeach etc.. AlaStOr @AlaStOrsC 23m @TargA01 here my reps vs this fatboy at wcs http://drop.sc/352241 http://drop.sc/352239 http://drop.sc/352242 , stop eat hamburguers plz LOL y so much drama all of a sudden
oh well that escalated quickly
Edit: Also I like Targa, he is a cool dude, so when he calls someone a hacker I tend to believe him. Now that's because I assume he checked everything and is 100% sure/has prove, because he knows how such rumors could affect a player. If it now proves to be wrong I am disappointed.
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On July 30 2013 20:53 TT1 wrote:Kristoffer M @TargA01 1h So many hackers in europe atm, intruder, imbatoss alastor, juicypeach etc.. AlaStOr @AlaStOrsC 23m @TargA01 here my reps vs this fatboy at wcs http://drop.sc/352241 http://drop.sc/352239 http://drop.sc/352242 , stop eat hamburguers plz LOL y so much drama all of a sudden
In the past we already did doubt alastor was legit. His scouting patterns and reasoning behind 15 hatch or pool first are completely off the chart, at least in the past. I still remember 'testing' him with other Terrans and he really never got caught offguard vs a double rax, with or without scouting.
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Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well.
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On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread.
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lol targa vs alastor on stream
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On July 30 2013 21:05 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread.
Maybe you should read the last posts about Autohotkey and imbatoss.
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On July 30 2013 21:06 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:05 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread. Maybe you should read the last posts about Autohotkey and imbatoss. Maybe I have read and posted a lot about that on the last pages. Go and read it.
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On July 30 2013 21:06 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:05 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread. Maybe you should read the last posts about Autohotkey and imbatoss.
LOL, another new account from Germany.. :D
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i really dont care about what u guys think , really... but what i want to tell u is , that i hate the shit "i came from nowhere" are u fucking kidding me? , i was top 100 gm in wol , then i cintinued with hots and was 2 seaosns top 50 and then top 30 gm in Eu , then i got kicked out of gm cuz of inactivity , because i played on NA , and there i was top 16 too so what the hell are u talking about , i came from nowhere? xD , the other thing is i never played tournaments before because i just ply tournaments when i know i have a chance to win it , and thats the cause since some months , cause i improved , so pls , shut the fuck up with "i came from nowhere" And when ur complaining now again about my bad english , then i wish u a lot of fun , i really dont mind
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What's the problem with being from Germany?
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On July 30 2013 20:21 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:17 tarrantius wrote:On July 30 2013 20:16 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 20:08 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not No, it is not all programs. Some more examples: Calibre E-Book Management, Notepad and VLC don't show up for me. Cause they are listed under a different Audio Device? Did u check it ? Yes, I did. My audio devices: + Show Spoiler +Show under other device (none):
Well that is weird because VLC is showing up the audio tab for me.
On July 30 2013 21:20 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: What's the problem with being from Germany?
Low post count, same country as ImbaToss, username don't exist on any other forum on the planet. You do the math. That tend to make people quite suspicious. Not me as i don't care if you are a "defender", or a "schyzophreniac imbatoss". That is your problem I'm just answering your question.
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On July 30 2013 21:05 Jogginghose wrote:lol targa vs alastor on stream hm?
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On July 30 2013 21:22 TargA wrote:hm?
alastor just showed the replays on stream.
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On July 30 2013 21:20 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: What's the problem with being from Germany?
Nothing.
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On July 30 2013 21:07 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:06 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:On July 30 2013 21:05 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread. Maybe you should read the last posts about Autohotkey and imbatoss. Maybe I have read and posted a lot about that on the last pages. Go and read it.
Ah, nevermind. Got it, sorry again.
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On July 30 2013 21:08 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:06 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:On July 30 2013 21:05 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread. Maybe you should read the last posts about Autohotkey and imbatoss. LOL, another new account from Germany.. :D
It's not new, but considering your assumption, wouldn't it have been easier for me to just select a different country if I had made this account on purpose?
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im watching alastors stream atm o_o -------->
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On July 30 2013 21:21 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:21 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 20:17 tarrantius wrote:On July 30 2013 20:16 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 20:08 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not No, it is not all programs. Some more examples: Calibre E-Book Management, Notepad and VLC don't show up for me. Cause they are listed under a different Audio Device? Did u check it ? Yes, I did. My audio devices: + Show Spoiler +Show under other device (none): Well that is weird because VLC is showing up the audio tab for me. Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:20 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: What's the problem with being from Germany? Low post count, same country as ImbaToss, username don't exist on any other forum on the planet. You do the math. That tend to make people quite suspicious. Not me as i don't care if you are a "defender", or a "schyzophreniac imbatoss". That is your problem I'm just answering your question.
Figured. I just got into thread by Odem, who was posting this thread on ProTech's stream. I don't know anyone in here except him and gaemtoss from playing and twitch. Not heard of imbatoss either before the day of yesterday.
So me and my posting here proves basically that I was a bit over-eager and premature not having read everything (especially what grs did post) and that some people on this thread here are pretty much over paranoid.
gg, anyways.
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On July 30 2013 21:43 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:21 FFW_Rude wrote:On July 30 2013 20:21 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 20:17 tarrantius wrote:On July 30 2013 20:16 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 20:08 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: Its just a programm to hotkey buildings or like dani said ,for music etc , just to do everything on ur pc with hotkeys , and every programm that u habe open appears in the sound options no matter if it makes a sound or not No, it is not all programs. Some more examples: Calibre E-Book Management, Notepad and VLC don't show up for me. Cause they are listed under a different Audio Device? Did u check it ? Yes, I did. My audio devices: + Show Spoiler +Show under other device (none): Well that is weird because VLC is showing up the audio tab for me. On July 30 2013 21:20 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: What's the problem with being from Germany? Low post count, same country as ImbaToss, username don't exist on any other forum on the planet. You do the math. That tend to make people quite suspicious. Not me as i don't care if you are a "defender", or a "schyzophreniac imbatoss". That is your problem I'm just answering your question. Figured. I just got into thread by Odem, who was posting this thread on ProTech's stream. I don't know anyone in here except him and gaemtoss from playing and twitch. Not heard of imbatoss either before the day of yesterday. So me and my posting here proves basically that I was a bit over-eager and premature not having read everything (especially what grs did post) and that some people on this thread here are pretty much over paranoid. gg, anyways.
Well as i said, i was just answering your question and why the other TL user stated this. I have no opinions on the matter
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On July 30 2013 21:41 TT1 wrote: im watching alastors stream atm o_o -------->
was he really just proxy gated by a maphacker? rofl, I don't know what's going on anymore... will just give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
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On July 30 2013 21:18 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: i really dont care about what u guys think , really... but what i want to tell u is , that i hate the shit "i came from nowhere" are u fucking kidding me? , i was top 100 gm in wol , then i cintinued with hots and was 2 seaosns top 50 and then top 30 gm in Eu , then i got kicked out of gm cuz of inactivity , because i played on NA , and there i was top 16 too so what the hell are u talking about , i came from nowhere? xD
and why did u left your team now, when you could show them that you archived grandmaster league that often?
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Imbatoss is and always be a damn hacker with the excuses he's making, any Admin from the tournament he won should request money prize back and he should get out of CPLAY already, it's giving them bad reputation . Feel sorry for his managment as i'm really good friend with CplayTTesports manager. All in all, too many proof (from counter builds, to stream hack fail, all the dumb excuses) and complaints from pro players (bly, jogginghose, me, nerchio, much more i'm sure..) so just stop this discussion and hope Blizzard (who doesn't care about it) will do something about it... ...
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On July 30 2013 21:18 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: i really dont care about what u guys think , really... but what i want to tell u is , that i hate the shit "i came from nowhere" are u fucking kidding me? , i was top 100 gm in wol , then i cintinued with hots and was 2 seaosns top 50 and then top 30 gm in Eu , then i got kicked out of gm cuz of inactivity , because i played on NA , and there i was top 16 too so what the hell are u talking about , i came from nowhere? xD , the other thing is i never played tournaments before because i just ply tournaments when i know i have a chance to win it , and thats the cause since some months , cause i improved , so pls , shut the fuck up with "i came from nowhere" And when ur complaining now again about my bad english , then i wish u a lot of fun , i really dont mind
You got caught. It's over. Face it, kid, man up, it's time to realize what happened, appologize and get the fuck out of our community (as you don't deserve to be a part of it) if you have any remaining scraps of honour.
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On July 30 2013 20:02 Jogginghose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 19:56 dani` wrote:On July 30 2013 19:45 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 19:43 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: You know its not forbidden to have a auto hotkey programm ? it just hotkeys ur buildings thats all and u can download it sepperatly thats all , has nothing to do with maphack T_T What a coincidence your autohotkey software uses the same icon as the hack. Such bad luck The fact some hack apparently uses AutoHotkey and the developer is too lazy to change the icon does not mean some guy hacks because he also uses AutoHotkey for something else. That 'H' in green is just the default AutoHotkey icon, and AutoHotkey can be used to do all sorts of things. I mean I use a AutoHotkey script to change my Caps Lock key into a multimedia key (e.g., Caps Lock + F1 = Play/Pause music) and disable its default functionality. Though from his comment apparently he does use the AutoHotkey program to 'hotkey his buildings', which is already a bit shady as it apparently gives him some kind of advantage. Regardless, my point was AutoHotkey can be used in many, many totally legit ways which have nothing to do with StarCraft and/or hacks. just curious, does your autohotkey programm show up in your audiosettings? I'm not that familiar with windows . No it does not. But AutoHotkey has a function SoundPlay so I assume when it uses that (or has done so in the past) it will probably show up there.
Btw I'm not defending this guy, just saying the mere fact he uses some audio producing AutoHotkey program does *proof* he's a hacker.
To proof what I'm saying; a 1 line AutoHotkey script can pop up in the Windows Volume Mixer:
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On July 30 2013 21:32 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:08 Everlong wrote:On July 30 2013 21:06 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote:On July 30 2013 21:05 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 21:04 FLORIDACOMPACT wrote: Since when is Autohotkey a hack? It's like saying Razer Synapse is a hack as well. Please read the thread. Maybe you should read the last posts about Autohotkey and imbatoss. LOL, another new account from Germany.. :D It's not new, but considering your assumption, wouldn't it have been easier for me to just select a different country if I had made this account on purpose?
It would, but people are pretty stupid and prone to conspiracy-theories. Having said that, I hate to break it to you guys but I am actually Imbatoss using a smurfaccount! Or am I just trolling? Or am I just pretending to be trolling in order to throw you all off from the fact that I am actually imbatoss?! Or am I pretending to be imbatoss in order to obscure my secret batman identity?!?!
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On July 30 2013 20:16 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 20:11 SpecialistSc wrote:On July 30 2013 19:36 FnaticNaama wrote: Saddest thing is that you actually improve faster with maphack than without. Even if they stop maphacking they still have became relatively good undeservingly. even sadder is that's just not true that's like saying if you take a practice test with your answer key and get 100, you've gotten better as compared to taking the test without the answer key. ability to look at the answer then solving will get players to be proficient at cheating, not legit playing Naama is right. At least if the hacker is not complete dumb. You can look at timings and improve. When I am ingame and I have a supplylead and/or advantage, often times I don't realize. With a hack, you would realize, you would know your timings in and out and you would also learn about their builds and timings. As said, its really if you are into the game, hack would provide information that help to improve the understanding part of the game, not in the mechanics. Still its cheating and shouldn't be accepted. ImbaToSs said he uses this program to automatically hotkey his buildings/units, that in itself is bannable offense and should be followed up by a ban from tournaments and Teamliquid. If he does also use the other features and/or he really maphacks I cannot comment on, personally from the evidence, it would lead me to believe yes, he does.
Thats questionable if you improve faster with cheats
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That's why I was wondering, the moment an application has access to your sound device, it will pop up in the mixer.
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On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening.
They already have one but it can be bypassed.
Reality is in anything where you can win money for sport, there will be cheaters.
Maphackers in SC2 are like steroid abusers in professional sports. If there is a way to cheat to make you better to gain more money there will always be people willing to try to find a way to do it.
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just curious:
If you use Autohotkey to lets say bind a controll group to your middle mouse button - or bind "Mousewheelup" to patrol ... and so on - thats count as cheating aswell?
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On July 31 2013 02:21 highty wrote: just curious:
If you use Autohotkey to lets say bind a controll group to your middle mouse button - or bind "Mousewheelup" to patrol ... and so on - thats count as cheating aswell?
If it's a third party program that does something in the game for you so either you don't have to, or it's something advantageous that other players can not do (without said 3rd party program), then yes you are cheating. The degree to how bad someone is cheating is sometimes not all that advantageous and most players won't care. On the other hand the more extreme cheats will always be of much discussion.
Blizzard however, can and does ban people for using third party programs as they make changes to their cheat detection program. This doesn't stop the more extreme cheaters as they just buy new accounts. So keeping the more extreme cheaters out of leagues would be up to the league itself.
The only third party software that 100% won't get you banned is things like SC2Gears that work outside of the confines of the game and have no affect on in game play what so ever.
TLDR: If you are using anything that does something for you while you play you run the risk of being ban on ladder. What strelok was referring to lies more towards the onus on leagues to not let cheaters in, or at least that's what I got from the post.
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Blizzard has never taken removing hackers seriously, and it is awful.
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On July 31 2013 02:21 highty wrote: just curious:
If you use Autohotkey to lets say bind a controll group to your middle mouse button - or bind "Mousewheelup" to patrol ... and so on - thats count as cheating aswell? Binding the Patrol hotkey to the mouse wheel instead of P certainly is no cheating, at least I would not consider it to be. That's just changing the hotkey basically, a bit unusual perhaps to use the mouse wheel for it but whatever floats your boat.
It becomes a bit shady when you use AutoHotkey to let's say bind F1 to some kind of macro like 'select all queens and inject all Hatcheries instantly'.
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On July 31 2013 02:32 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 02:21 highty wrote: just curious:
If you use Autohotkey to lets say bind a controll group to your middle mouse button - or bind "Mousewheelup" to patrol ... and so on - thats count as cheating aswell? Binding the Patrol hotkey to the mouse wheel instead of P certainly is no cheating, at least I would not consider it to be. That's just changing the hotkey basically, a bit unusual perhaps to use the mouse wheel for it but whatever floats your boat. It becomes a bit shady when you use AutoHotkey to let's say bind F1 to some kind of macro like 'select all queens and inject all Hatcheries instantly'.
You can bind anything "legal"(1 key 1 action) inside the game.. Any third party program that changes hotkey violates SC ToS AND
- is useless if you stay in the allowed area - it binds more than 1 action to 1 key
Besides of that the icon showed in the stream is a standalone program... but it can also be part of a maphack.
Sure you can also have a maphack installed on your pc and show it installed on stream, nevertheless nobody can say you cheated 100% sure. The only way to prove that would be to break in the cheater house while he's playing or hack his pc... So we have few instruments to say he's hacking, all of which relate to common sense.
- replay analisys, he never get caught off guard, blind countering anything - pro players' opinion, same as above with the addition of consideration about poor scout and poor micro/decision making in fights - other indicators, like having a sospicious program running
None of this alone can be considered a proof... but putting all together actually make his position more than suspicious.
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On July 31 2013 01:35 Nerski wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening. They already have one but it can be bypassed. Reality is in anything where you can win money for sport, there will be cheaters. Maphackers in SC2 are like steroid abusers in professional sports. If there is a way to cheat to make you better to gain more money there will always be people willing to try to find a way to do it.
Hackers aren't really like steroid abusers.
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On July 31 2013 10:32 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 01:35 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening. They already have one but it can be bypassed. Reality is in anything where you can win money for sport, there will be cheaters. Maphackers in SC2 are like steroid abusers in professional sports. If there is a way to cheat to make you better to gain more money there will always be people willing to try to find a way to do it. Hackers aren't really like steroid abusers.
While they're not covered in muscles with shrunken testicles (the testicles thing is arguable), I think they're "like" 'roid users because they're cheating and nobody has any respect for their accomplishments and they get banned if they're caught. I could probably think of more similarities but it shouldn't be hard to make connections.
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On July 29 2013 01:48 AcerBly wrote:about imbatoss agree with nerchio He is streamcheating or mh, Maybe even he and juicypeach is same player)
imbatoss is german juicypeach is obviously russian
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On July 31 2013 10:56 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 10:32 IgnE wrote:On July 31 2013 01:35 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening. They already have one but it can be bypassed. Reality is in anything where you can win money for sport, there will be cheaters. Maphackers in SC2 are like steroid abusers in professional sports. If there is a way to cheat to make you better to gain more money there will always be people willing to try to find a way to do it. Hackers aren't really like steroid abusers. While they're not covered in muscles with shrunken testicles (the testicles thing is arguable), I think they're "like" 'roid users because they're cheating and nobody has any respect for their accomplishments and they get banned if they're caught. I could probably think of more similarities but it shouldn't be hard to make connections.
The main difference is that steroid abusers can use their cheating devices successfully in major tournaments and avoid detection, while you obviously can't get away with hacking at a LAN. (not to detract from online tournaments, but in general most of the biggest tournaments are LAN)
edit: well not quite LAN in SC2's case but you know what I mean
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On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money.
It could be done legally. There would be a pop-up explaining the modification to the terms of service. You could accept and play in ladder games or decline and not play in ladder games. That is perfectly legal under US law as long as the existing terms of service allow for such modifications, which they no doubt do. And I have a strong suspicion that Blizzard's lawyers wrote the license to make it clear that US law applies.
Technical feasibility is another matter, but there is no doubt that Blizzard could do more.
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On July 31 2013 11:06 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 10:56 dUTtrOACh wrote:On July 31 2013 10:32 IgnE wrote:On July 31 2013 01:35 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening. They already have one but it can be bypassed. Reality is in anything where you can win money for sport, there will be cheaters. Maphackers in SC2 are like steroid abusers in professional sports. If there is a way to cheat to make you better to gain more money there will always be people willing to try to find a way to do it. Hackers aren't really like steroid abusers. While they're not covered in muscles with shrunken testicles (the testicles thing is arguable), I think they're "like" 'roid users because they're cheating and nobody has any respect for their accomplishments and they get banned if they're caught. I could probably think of more similarities but it shouldn't be hard to make connections. The main difference is that steroid abusers can use their cheating devices successfully in major tournaments and avoid detection, while you obviously can't get away with hacking at a LAN. (not to detract from online tournaments, but in general most of the biggest tournaments are LAN) edit: well not quite LAN in SC2's case but you know what I mean
With lots of tournaments doing online qualifiers though, it still affects people in the pocket book eventually. It may not gain the cheater a LAN win, but it sure could eliminate a player who may have won in lan. Just look at what happened in WCS already as a perfect example of hackers affecting people's pocket book.
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Just curious after so many different proofs, including replays and stuff, what else has to be found to prove this person guilty?
People in this and main maphacking thread gave already so many proofs that this guy hacks... Which else proofs do you need? Even if you somehow find maphack in his computer, he will say that used it only for 2v2 with friends and stuff and some people will still consider that as being truth....
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On July 31 2013 15:28 Strelok wrote: Just curious after so many different proofs, including replays and stuff, what else has to be found to prove this person guilty?
People in this and main maphacking thread gave already so many proofs that this guy hacks... Which else proofs do you need? Even if you somehow find maphack in his computer, he will say that used it only for 2v2 with friends and stuff and some people will still consider that as being truth....
The problem is that there is no 'proof'. If you would ask all people that played him, possibly 95% would come to the conclusion he hacks (I would as well), but proof can only be found in replay data and impossible selections etc. If you cannot deliver that, you can never proof it.
There are so many replays of him doing suspicious stuff, I believe he should be banned , but thats up to Teamliquid and tournaments to decide.
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First of all I'd like to say that in my oppinion atleast 30-50% of the people in the anti hacking scene are hackers themselves. I think I don't have to mention that a significant percentage of those people possess an accurate knowledge about maphacking (about features, where to download them and so on) that definitely doesn't come out of nowhere. I also think that there is a decent number of pro gamers who use hacks on ladder aswell. I'd tell you some names but that would offend all their little fan boys and inspire them to post on this useless theard aswell. But these are just side notes.
I personally think that this anti hacking scene on TL.net is getting out of control. Yes, there definitely might be reports that indeed prove that someone is hacking but there are still many reports that were just created because the persons who created them are mad as fuck because SCII is their life and they're mad because of a lost match. And I also find it hilarious that people still think that Blizzard would give a fuck about their anti hacking thread. If one day a pro gamer popped up on your hacker list, well then they might actually do something but the rest of your list means nothing to them.
My oppinion on this thread is that you're all a bunch of fucks, why? Because:
- This is clearly calumny against Imbatoss - You are clearly studying all of his replays trying to find something suspicious, go study the people's replays that are trying to harm Imbatoss' reputation aswell, I'm SURE you'll find some suspicious things there as well, I guarantee it - You are spreading rumours that are incorrect and you know it but you don't care because all you want is getting someone you don't like (in this case Imbatoss) banned
A few examples for incorrect rumours:
"..how can someone unknown come top at tournaments (go4sc2 finals) and beating much better players like Strelok and going from totally bottom GM ladder to top 16 in 2-3 days lol" - Starbuck He has been GM several times in the past, "bottom GM ladder" is a lie because he achieved several non-bottom placements in the past including top 16 GM on NA
"...I watched a VOD of imbatoss and found a little programm called "Autohotkey" in his soundsettings...." - Jogginghose Using a program which has the same or a similar icon still doesn't make anyone a hacker. "...so further i was researching on maphack in general, since it seems the EU-Ladder is full of them atm...." - Jogginhose You were reseaching... lol. Probably a hacker yourself?! "...The icon looks pretty familiar right ?! He also muted the programm since it gives you audiowarnings. According to the website all overlays are seperate and can easily positioned on a second monitor. So the guy streamin prooves nothing. He even prooved himself hacking ..." - Jogginghose Again, he did not prove himself hacking, I also find it funny how much you know about this hack...hmmm suspicoius.
"...ImbaTosS was totally unknown, he wasn't even gm, now he is suddenly top 16 grandmaster and top at online tournaments lol. Stupid hacker.." - Starbuck So an SCII player has to be known before he's allowed to be a legit player? He wasn't even GM? Dude stop doing drugs he achieved GM multiple times in the past and you even know that. He also achieved top 16 GM in the past as I said before.
"...make sure to have a webcam on ur monitor, if u have a 2nd monitor u can run a maphack on it so it wouldnt prove anything..." - TT1 Are you kidding dude? Every streamer out there could do the same thing, stop looking for possible ways how hacking is possible. No one would use a second monitor to use hacks on.
"...LOL, another new account from Germany.. :D..." - Everlong "Low post count, same country as ImbaToss, username don't exist on any other forum on the planet. " - FFW_Rude Paranoid fucks, this doesn't prove anything. You are probably going to say the same shit to me because this is a new account and I'm German aswell. It's also completely up to every person which country they choose, so why would he chosse Germany every time... come on you can do better guys.
"...and why did u left your team now, when you could show them that you archived grandmaster league that often?..." - Kaup LOL everyone can look up theirselves, he in fact achieved GM multiple times. There's nothing wrong with this, see for yourself. Only a stupid person, that's what you are apparently, would say that this was the reason he got kicked out of the team by the way. He got kicked because you guy did great spreading rumours that he's a hacker. I bet you guys are popping a boner right now.
This is not really a rumour but I just can't resist to comment on that: .."You got caught. It's over. Face it, kid, man up, it's time to realize what happened, appologize and get the fuck out of our community (as you don't deserve to be a part of it) if you have any remaining scraps of honour..." - rafaliusz You call him a kid? Are you fucking stupid, he's not a kid and even if he were one, age doesn't matter, but that's how people tend to argue when they're running out of arguments. Why would he apologize when he's not even hacking. You want him to get the fuck out of "your" community? Everyone is part of this community, because you don't like a person it doesn't change that fact. And I'm sure he doesn't even want to be part of a community like this which is something I can understand because this community contains a shitload of fucks and I thank you for proving it on this thread. And the best part of your sentence "...if you have any remaining scraps of honour.." LOOOL dude, you seem to have some serious trouble irl. Why would you say that? You don't even know him, you don't know what kind of person he is and I'm sure you didn't even know him before you heard about him on this "beauty of a thread". All in all you prove that you must be some kind of ******** by posting shit like that.
"....about imbatoss agree with nerchio He is streamcheating or mh, Maybe even he and juicypeach is same player.." - Acerbly Alrite, I can in fact tell that they're not the same player, thank you aintthatfunny for your post, they are not the same player. Another incorrect rumour.
My résumé: You guys want this guy to be banned at any price. You guys pop a boner because you find it satisfying to harm other persons reputations. Especially Starbuck and Strelok. You guys have always been a**ho*es. Thanks to your posts you've proven it again. I hope that someone literally studies YOUR replays trying to find something suspicous. I still think they would find some stuff there aswell. And all the guys who blame other persons for their foreign language skills.... simply shut your ****ing mouths and learn a foreign language yourselves. By the way there are alot of people on this thread with questionable English skills including Strelok and Starbuck.
Let the flame begin, I can't wait for it. That's the way things are and I find it funny that you'd rather stick together than admit that alot of what you said is wrong and nothing but rumours. That shows even more that your only goal is to get him banned...
-Enigma
(uuuuuuh another account from Germany I gotta be Imbatoss)
Edit:
"Enigma your single opinion is totally irrelevant when we reached 14pages about this guy and numerous people have replays where he blind counters + pros included. Oh and Enigma - Joined TL.net Wednesday, 31st of July 2013 Fuck off you smurf."
"Enigma aka imbatoss, its over, you lost. try your luck in LoL or something"
You guys are so predictable, dance my puppets, dance.
User was banned for this post.
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Enigma your single opinion is totally irrelevant when we reached 14pages about this guy and numerous people have replays where he blind counters + pros included. Oh and Enigma - Joined TL.net Wednesday, 31st of July 2013 Fuck off you smurf.
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Enigma: If imbatoss is so good, why has he not done it at a LAN tournament?
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Enigma aka imbatoss, its over, you lost. try your luck in LoL or something
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This is great, thanks for the good laugh. Everyone who is not against him must be himself. Great.
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hey enigma and why did you played a barcraft tournament which isn allowed for GM players? and won 200 €
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On July 30 2013 21:18 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote: i really dont care about what u guys think , really... but what i want to tell u is , that i hate the shit "i came from nowhere" are u fucking kidding me? , i was top 100 gm in wol , then i cintinued with hots and was 2 seaosns top 50 and then top 30 gm in Eu , then i got kicked out of gm cuz of inactivity , because i played on NA , and there i was top 16 too so what the hell are u talking about , i came from nowhere? xD , the other thing is i never played tournaments before because i just ply tournaments when i know i have a chance to win it , and thats the cause since some months , cause i improved , so pls , shut the fuck up with "i came from nowhere" And when ur complaining now again about my bad english , then i wish u a lot of fun , i really dont mind
Under what name exactly, what were your accounts back then since if you actually were gm everyone would know that, or at least some people, and say hello to a ban for your language (because it probably will come)
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The proceed of imbatoss's argumentation, in regards to the allegations, is so horribly bad, that i laughed my ass off.
Either bring valid points to disprove things, or just stop answering please.
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inb4 Enigma gets warned and/or (hopefully)banned
User was warned for this post
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SearchEU you are so awesome :D As I said you'd rather believe all the lies that you've heard a thousand times instead of believing the truth you've heard once. It's funny that all the posters had to spread rumours and lies first to have a solid construction to maintain their scheme.
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On July 31 2013 22:04 iSHOKZ wrote: The proceed of imbatoss's argumentation, in regards to the allegations, is so horribly bad, that i laughed my ass off.
Either bring valid points to disprove things, or just stop answering please.
what could he actually do instead of writing a wall of crap? post replays he gets hard bo-countered? problem is, there are none ;-)
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This thread was brought to my attention and I wanted to respond to it and that's what I did. I'm not Imbatoss, but it doesn't matter what I say since you actually don't care and/or are too stupid to realize. It also cannot be someone else than Imbatoss because noone else than Imbatoss would not agree to what you guys say... lol. You guys should seriously consider living a life outside of Starcraft2 and stop acting as if everything you say was the only possible truth.
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Instead of asking david kim the same 2 question every time "what about widowmine? what about hellbats" they should be asking WHAT ABOUT THE HACKERS?. Like the only 3 explanation I can think of why blizzard hasn't taking antihacking measures is: 1. Blizzard got their money fuck w/e happens next. sc2 isn't a game where people will rebuy their accounts if they get banned so they really have no incentive ban. 2. Blizzard's Sc2 department is just david kim and his balance team. XD I mean There's no "GMs" patroling laddering looking for hackers and Community Manager or w/e isn't spending his work day reading Maphack reports so there's just no one there who cares. 3. We haven't brought enough attention to the problem for blizzard to notice. What really blows my mind is: theres no maphackers on LoL to my knowledge. On top of that to my knowledge they use a similar engine. Millions of player base + free to play + no maphackers= they got some solid ass antihacking engine. We can just assume there are ways to detect hacks just blizzard isn't doing anything about it.
Hopefully It'd get fixed, but yea i feel your pain bro. i remember WCS tourny was infested with hackers as well and none got banned.
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On July 31 2013 22:15 EnigmaGER wrote: This thread was brought to my attention and I wanted to respond to it and that's what I did. I'm not Imbatoss, but it doesn't matter what I say since you actually don't care and/or are too stupid to realize. It also cannot be someone else than Imbatoss because noone else than Imbatoss would not agree to what you guys say... lol. You guys should seriously consider living a life outside of Starcraft2 and stop acting as if everything you say was the only possible truth.
OK. so if you know alot of imbatoss you could answer me why did he played the munich barcraft qualifier
http://starcraft2.ingame.de/cup/tournament.php?gid=32&tid=1394&mode=grid&round=3 seen from liquidpedia : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/The_BCON_Clash and imbatoss account on the website : http://starcraft2.ingame.de/cup/player.php?pid=602923 So the tournament rules are in german: (found here : http://starcraft2.ingame.de/cup/tournament.php?gid=32&tid=1394&mode=info ) Teilnahmebedingungen In der Region München lebend Keine Grandmaster (sonst alle Ligen) -> no grandmaster Keine gesponserten Pro-Gamer -> no sponsored progamer and you(imbatoss/enigma) said he was already very often grandmaster? sounds interesting! and why a barcode account ? to get masters and able to win the tournament sounds cool !
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I was practicing so hard for this cup http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/The_BCON_Clash and lost a lot of motivation for Sc2 because he crushed me hard after all the effort.... i tryit to get back in shape (i was inactive). Bann him pls from Tournaments....
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On July 31 2013 22:08 EnigmaGER wrote: SearchEU you are so awesome :D As I said you'd rather believe all the lies that you've heard a thousand times instead of believing the truth you've heard once. It's funny that all the posters had to spread rumours and lies first to have a solid construction to maintain their scheme. Thanks <3. Anyways 1. Almost everyone that played Imbatoss confirms that he was suspicious. 2. A guy out of nowhere pops out into top 16 GM and wins Go4SC2's ( he and you (orthesameperson)) tell us that he was GM before both on NA and EU but then why doesn't he link us to his accounts or takes a screenshot of his career summary? That'd do for the "he popped out of nowhere part" 3. Even if he was, how do we know if he didn't get it by hacking? 4. He made the most shitty written explation, with the worst formatting possible, and then he started to insult us when we pointed out that his style of writing is horrible and it's painful to read and it's difficult to understand what he tries to say. 5. We have a possible hint that he is indeed maphacking for sure by the autohotkey thingy, that doesn't prove it for certain, but it is a thing that grabs you towards the "imbatoss is indeed a maphacker" side of the fence. 6. Now another person, who made a new tl account TODAY, and wrote a summary full of bullshit aswell, insulting us aswell, throwing words in the wind and not giving any legit proof of innocence ?
How i see it : 1. Imbatoss gives us like ~100 (the more the better) of his replays for us to research. 2. Streams 100% of his tournament matches ( it's still possible that he can use a maphack(or streamcheat) on the 2nd monitor of his that is not captured by his livestreaming software that he's using), so we can see if he's actually playing that well in tournaments and wins them fair and square, deserving the victory, or if he's indeed hacking then his results will drop and he wont win tournaments for REAL MONEY that he won by cheating: - in ladder you play for points mmr and for practice, but tournaments are the real deal, it is annoying and obnoxious to play a maphacker on ladder and lose because someone cheated against you, but in tournaments you are actually stealing money that was spent to spark competition, and be a reward to somebody who's really good at the game and isn't cheating, by fair rules of competition.
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On July 31 2013 22:15 EnigmaGER wrote: This thread was brought to my attention and I wanted to respond to it and that's what I did. I'm not Imbatoss, but it doesn't matter what I say since you actually don't care and/or are too stupid to realize. It also cannot be someone else than Imbatoss because noone else than Imbatoss would not agree to what you guys say... lol. You guys should seriously consider living a life outside of Starcraft2 and stop acting as if everything you say was the only possible truth.
Simple math:
If each allegation here has the chance of being 50% truth, or 50% wrong. The thread mentions about more than 10 such facts. So for only 2 facts, he has the chance to be 25% right, and 75% wrong... do the math. 0,5^10 = 0.0009765625 (0,5 = 50%)
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. So he may be true for 0,01 percent. In imbatoss we trust. (this is only a stupid example to show that there is no evidence in him not hacking)
As mentioned above, there is no prove that he is hacking. But count things together.
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The only FAIR solution is this:
EVERYONE map hacks in ONLINE tournaments.
In online environment, no one is there to actually see if a person map hacks. So if the MHer just acts intelligently enough to not get caught, there simply is no way of knowing whether he hacked or not. Or in the case of imbatoss where he acts so blatantly that he hacked, we can't still prove him 100% guilty.
SO WHY NOT everyone just map hack in online tournaments? This seems to be the only fair way.
I bet a lot of pros including WCS premiere LAN participants have used MH in online qualification (just a personal thought but when you think about it, it is very feasible). You cannot say simply because a person has LAN result, he won't map hack. MH will give him extra edge in online tournaments without practically any risks.
So to make my point short,
Maphacking and getting caught = extremely low chance Maphacking's benefit = extremely high = everyone should be at least tempted to map hack.
it's only a matter of time before everyone is smart enough to do so
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wow. in my opinion your opinion should be reason enough for a ban
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On July 31 2013 22:40 SpecialistSc wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The only FAIR solution is this:
EVERYONE map hacks in ONLINE tournaments.
In online environment, no one is there to actually see if a person map hacks. So if the MHer just acts intelligently enough to not get caught, there simply is no way of knowing whether he hacked or not. Or in the case of imbatoss where he acts so blatantly that he hacked, we can't still prove him 100% guilty.
SO WHY NOT everyone just map hack in online tournaments? This seems to be the only fair way.
I bet a lot of pros including WCS premiere LAN participants have used MH in online qualification (just a personal thought but when you think about it, it is very feasible). You cannot say simply because a person has LAN result, he won't map hack. MH will give him extra edge in online tournaments without practically any risks.
So to make my point short,
Maphacking and getting caught = extremely low chance Maphacking's benefit = extremely high = everyone should be at least tempted to map hack.
it's only a matter of time before everyone is smart enough to do so
That it is "smart" and has high beneficts doesn't mean its the right thing to do, it isn't a moral thing to do, it destroys competition, makes it unfair for those who actually practice hard to do well in those tournaments and get money for example to save up to spend it to go to a LAN tournament like f.e. Dreamhack and make a splash there. "= everyone should be at least tempted to map hack." everyone would like to have things easier and get free money and benefits, but that doesn't mean its the RIGHT thing to do. Smart=/=Right/Moral/Honorable , but sadly, that's how some things work in life.
On July 31 2013 22:45 KnowMe wrote: wow. in my opinion your opinion should be reason enough for a ban 1000 times this.
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one way to combat hackers would indeed be to remove fog of war in the game. like, make it an option in-game. online qualifiers could be played with the setting fog of war = disabled and offline events could be played with fog of war active. and then there could be separate ladders...
meh, probably never going to happen. but i would love to see this in the next expansion. it would completely remove the issue of hacking and make the game less luck based (at least in games where fog of war is disabled).
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Are you people drunk or something? Please, stop being ridiculous. You know that's complete bullshit, right?
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in WoL imbatoss was low gm, always doing 1-2 base all-inns to maybe luck out a win against opponents he catches offguard. he wasnt even close gm level skill wise and i heard he got levelled up by some good player. normally i would think Oh my god he improved at a really high rate... but thats not true at all.. his mechanics, micro and macro are still awful, maybe got even worse and his builds arent really smart. so why the hell hes winning? if you watch his replays it always could be luck that hes scouting his opponent exactly the right time so hes prepared against the opponents build / unit composition... however he ALWAYS does this. hes only prepared against one build, the one the opponent does. thats why his winrate in pvp is outstanding. he just hardcounters everything they do. sometimes he also loses because his mechanics are pretty weak...
i just watched some of his games and its soooo funny :D he Never scouts and always has the perfect response. funniest is his pvp. hes not afraid to send his units all over the map to kill proxy pylons / probes / stargates. one unit by one. just straight up over the map, even if he doesnt cover every path, he knows where the proxys are. he just knows whats coming at him in every match up. he doesnt scout he just knows it and he always has the perfect response. hes never catched offguard. when a fight will happen in the next 10 seconds he doesnt look away from his army. he knows its coming. maphacker 100%
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On July 31 2013 22:48 SearchEU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 22:40 SpecialistSc wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The only FAIR solution is this:
EVERYONE map hacks in ONLINE tournaments.
In online environment, no one is there to actually see if a person map hacks. So if the MHer just acts intelligently enough to not get caught, there simply is no way of knowing whether he hacked or not. Or in the case of imbatoss where he acts so blatantly that he hacked, we can't still prove him 100% guilty.
SO WHY NOT everyone just map hack in online tournaments? This seems to be the only fair way.
I bet a lot of pros including WCS premiere LAN participants have used MH in online qualification (just a personal thought but when you think about it, it is very feasible). You cannot say simply because a person has LAN result, he won't map hack. MH will give him extra edge in online tournaments without practically any risks.
So to make my point short,
Maphacking and getting caught = extremely low chance Maphacking's benefit = extremely high = everyone should be at least tempted to map hack.
it's only a matter of time before everyone is smart enough to do so
That it is "smart" and has high beneficts doesn't mean its the right thing to do, it isn't a moral thing to do, it destroys competition, makes it unfair for those who actually practice hard to do well in those tournaments and get money for example to save up to spend it to go to a LAN tournament like f.e. Dreamhack and make a splash there. "= everyone should be at least tempted to map hack." everyone would like to have things easier and get free money and benefits, but that doesn't mean its the RIGHT thing to do. Smart=/=Right/Moral/Honorable , but sadly, that's how some things work in life. Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 22:45 KnowMe wrote: wow. in my opinion your opinion should be reason enough for a ban 1000 times this.
I know that of course it isn't right thing to do. In real life, there is law and police that has authority over people's wrong doings. In the game of starcraft, the law and police equivalent is blizzard company. However, they are not doing literally anything to prevent hacks. If at least, they showed some kind of visible efforts I wouldn't be as frustrated.
I am in no shape of form accusing anybody of MH or encouraging MHing, it's just that it's so frutrating how blizzard isn't spending money fixing hackers and game but instead spends millions of money in failed WCS esports endeavors
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On July 31 2013 23:09 SpecialistSc wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 31 2013 22:48 SearchEU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 22:40 SpecialistSc wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The only FAIR solution is this:
EVERYONE map hacks in ONLINE tournaments.
In online environment, no one is there to actually see if a person map hacks. So if the MHer just acts intelligently enough to not get caught, there simply is no way of knowing whether he hacked or not. Or in the case of imbatoss where he acts so blatantly that he hacked, we can't still prove him 100% guilty.
SO WHY NOT everyone just map hack in online tournaments? This seems to be the only fair way.
I bet a lot of pros including WCS premiere LAN participants have used MH in online qualification (just a personal thought but when you think about it, it is very feasible). You cannot say simply because a person has LAN result, he won't map hack. MH will give him extra edge in online tournaments without practically any risks.
So to make my point short,
Maphacking and getting caught = extremely low chance Maphacking's benefit = extremely high = everyone should be at least tempted to map hack.
it's only a matter of time before everyone is smart enough to do so
That it is "smart" and has high beneficts doesn't mean its the right thing to do, it isn't a moral thing to do, it destroys competition, makes it unfair for those who actually practice hard to do well in those tournaments and get money for example to save up to spend it to go to a LAN tournament like f.e. Dreamhack and make a splash there. "= everyone should be at least tempted to map hack." everyone would like to have things easier and get free money and benefits, but that doesn't mean its the RIGHT thing to do. Smart=/=Right/Moral/Honorable , but sadly, that's how some things work in life. Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 22:45 KnowMe wrote: wow. in my opinion your opinion should be reason enough for a ban 1000 times this. I know that of course it isn't right thing to do. In real life, there is law and police that has authority over people's wrong doings. In the game of starcraft, the law and police equivalent is blizzard company. However, they are not doing literally anything to prevent hacks. If at least, they showed some kind of visible efforts I wouldn't be as frustrated. I am in no shape of form accusing anybody of MH or encouraging MHing, it's just that it's so frutrating how blizzard isn't spending money fixing hackers and game but instead spends millions of money in failed WCS esports endeavors
I know mate , its k
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When it comes to accusing someone of map hacking (or anything, for that matter), the burden of proof is on the people doing the accusing. If they can come up with the replays/evidence to show map hacking, then the onus is on the person who is accused to come up with a decent defense. From looking at the replays and what people have suggested to look at, there's enough here to fulfill that burden of proof. When you look at this compared to other high level replays, there's a lot going on there that you don't see when watching someone else's replays. "Starsense" or whatever doesn't really cover what we're looking at. Watching other people you can see the patterns of their thought processes. Looking at these you can't see that. There's simply not enough information presented to warrant the decisions that are made in the games. In that respect, it would be good to see what the thought processes are and, if indeed there are no hacks in place, it should be simple enough to show them.
Those are the same that anyone else would show, a game stream + cam. It's easy enough to track eye movements and mouse movements that way.
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I caught Imbatoss maphacking 1 year ago when we played for the same team ( Img ) was in a go4sc2 vs HyuN. HyuN started with a 8pool+banelings and ImbaToss ( withouth any scout) made a perfect wall with gate+forge+canons at his ramp xD.
Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so.
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On August 01 2013 00:50 -IeZaeL- wrote: I caught Imbatoss maphacking 1 year ago when we played for the same team ( Img ) was in a go4sc2 vs HyuN. HyuN started with a 8pool+banelings and ImbaToss ( withouth any scout) made a perfect wall with gate+forge+canons at his ramp xD.
Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so.
You can deselect a selected unit with shift clicking on it, to end up with no unit selected (I know it's unlikely he did that, but still it's possible). I always dislike when valid suspicion get mixed with false statements, it just weakens the argument.
providing the replay, if you can find it, would be nice. Looking at the actions in sc2gears could reveal if he shift-deselected or used a badly programmed hack.
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You could compare maphacking to doping in conventional sports. There are people who advocate legalization, as well as people who advocate lifetime bans for caught athletes. I guess this (lifetime bans) would be a suitable option for SC2. Of course this would require players to register accounts with their real names, To facilitate casual play an training this could be done by having two types of accounts: 1.Ladder accounts, similar to the already exisiting accounts 2. Tournament/Pro accounts, which are to be verified with personal info (maybe even IDs) Every player would be limited to one Tournament account in his lifetime. Prizes you win go to your account, so it is harder to use somebody else's.
Tournaments could choose to require Tournament accounts for participation or not (in case of weekly and smaller tournaments). A problem arises, if big tournaments like WCS, decide to let you qualify based on ladder points.
Another option for Blizzard would be, to allocate their resources differently: If it takes as long as it does currently to ban players, of which compromising replays exist en masse, maybe focus more on higher leagues (Master plus) than on lower leagues, where I assume most Maphackers reside. Right now the banning process is too slow anyways to ban MHs, who quickly climb the ladder. So better focus on the ladder regions where MH do the most damage (since I find that mechanical differences account dor less in higher leagues, therefore the MH advantage is relatively bigger).
TL;DR real name policy for tournament participants
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On August 01 2013 01:00 TBO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 00:50 -IeZaeL- wrote: I caught Imbatoss maphacking 1 year ago when we played for the same team ( Img ) was in a go4sc2 vs HyuN. HyuN started with a 8pool+banelings and ImbaToss ( withouth any scout) made a perfect wall with gate+forge+canons at his ramp xD.
Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so. You can deselect a selected unit with shift clicking on it, to end up with no unit selected (I know it's unlikely he did that, but still it's possible). I always dislike when valid suspicion get mixed with false statements, it just weakens the argument. providing the replay, if you can find it, would be nice. Looking at the actions in sc2gears could reveal if he shift-deselected or used a badly programmed hack.
Thats true. I caught a hacker once in a similar situation using sc2 gears, dumbass right-clicked a bunker which was in the fog and he didnt have vision.
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Iccup implemented lagless cross realm play as well as an anti-hack system that ran seamlessly by hackers who were never part of the development team AND THIS WAS 8+ YEARS AGO. Blizzard makes mistake after mistake as well as ignores the community and they wonder why games like LoL are taking over. LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY!!!!!
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On August 01 2013 03:21 InSpiReZerG wrote: Iccup implemented lagless cross realm play as well as an anti-hack system that ran seamlessly by hackers who were never part of the development team AND THIS WAS 8+ YEARS AGO. Blizzard makes mistake after mistake as well as ignores the community and they wonder why games like LoL are taking over. LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY!!!!!
Well.. what is the community (you in this case) advising Blizzard to do practically to solve the problem?
Would you rather have a tribunal system like LoL? Everytime you blind counter (by pure luck) you get reported and some bronzelord (I respect bronze players) thinks it is not OK to wall your main w/o scouting a 6pool? Especially in lower leagues you just got to cope with hackers IMHO. Yea, you might lose some games, but it is not like mechanics would grant you the instawin if your opponent did not use hax. In high leagues that is different though. I remember when SeleCT was going for #1M earlier this summer (before GM was open) and he just met hackers again and again.
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I said listen to the community like LoL does... and an antihack program prevents hacks. tribunal was never part of the conversation what are you talking about?....
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Im saying a russian team with no financial backing was able to code an anti hack program for a game they didnt make. pretty sure it would take blizzard all of 3 days.
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admin of the bcon clash here: we had a little hole in the rules: they actually stated "no grandmaster EU during the time of the qualifier" and he wasn't gm eu at the time of his local qualifier, the munich one (which took place 2nd of June). It was brought to our attention after he qualified that he was GM in NA during the time of the qualifier, but we had that little hole in our rules as stated above, so we finally decided to allow him to play. We know this caused a lot of trouble among the other players and spoiled the fun a bit, and i am personally very sorry for it. Even more sorry after these accusations against imbatoss came up. But there is nothing we can do it about it afterwards.
I can only quote myself once again, please take a look at the replays and give a detailed report on it if you find something, be it for or against him.
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ok look at this replay: http://drop.sc/352205 the second the other guys builds the dark srhine imbatoss build a robo. no scout again, checks one (not the right one) base with the msc again, but come on, this is so obvious he has the ressources to tech at any point in time. 5:22 dark shrine goes down, 5:25 robo...6:45 first thing out of the robo: observer, chronoboosted and rallied to his own base
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On August 01 2013 05:41 graNite wrote:ok look at this replay: http://drop.sc/352205 the second the other guys builds the dark srhine imbatoss build a robo. no scout again, checks one (not the right one) base with the msc again, but come on, this is so obvious he has the ressources to tech at any point in time. 5:22 dark shrine goes down, 5:25 robo...6:45 first thing out of the robo: observer, chronoboosted and rallied to his own base
A single replay can be luck - if he gets lucky in every relevant (tournament) match then it becomes suspicious.
I am always a bit wary when it comes to hack accusations, as the consequences for a false positive are really bad. So what should be done is try to get replays from as many tournament replays of him as possible as look through them and see if he is lucky (almost) everytime.
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On July 29 2013 04:05 2v2 NexuS wrote: iAmJeffReY u kiding right? ye there are only 1 german guy in this country that plays 2vs2.... gj *facepalm*
I know, that this post is quite a few days old, but I just searched through ImbaToss' streaming sessions and found this:
The picture was taken from ImBaTosS' first streaming session 4 days ago, you can also see the time in the bottom of it. I highly doubt this guy is not a close mate of ImBaTosS. Just wanted to clarify this and thanks for reading. Greets!
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I like how this dumbass said that i was paranoid as i just explained him you people would believe that he was in fact imbatoss
Anyway Strelok, did you try to reach blizzard again about this issue ?
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Just Another thing: Im following this thread from the beginning now. Iin Wol times i met Imbatoss severall times in 2v2 and was wondering how lucky he was by countering my builds. anyway i didnt want to say he hacks without real proofs. Then i saw that jogginghose found that AHK icon in Imbatoss stream, but Imbatoss said this doesnt have anything to do with a hack. So i decided to search for that hack and check myself what kind of icon it shows and so on. But now the strange thing. A new Update of the Hack was released today with following Patchnotes :D :
• The below features are NOT required to be safe from Warden or Blizzard!!! They were simply requested by a user and I was bored. The program's ICON can be changed to a user selected .ico file + The program's/process name can set by the user - This may prevent updates being downloaded correctly (haven't tested) + The icon used in the embedded AHK executable has been changed to a standard application icon - This embedded AHK runs only during a voice announcement. - Its process name will still be listed as AutoHotkey.exe during the announcement (I see no reason to alter this).
fucking funny huh? just think about that and what jogginghose found out.
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I really hope blizz adds something similar this, while this doesn't catch all the cheaters, it does filter out alot of them.
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Canada13372 Posts
Something similar to overwatch in sc2 would be very cool. The issue comes up however if the player being watches is high on the ladder. It might allow for bias to come into play but maybe not. Would be cool to see time bans as a result in addition to the warden sweeps every so often.
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On August 01 2013 00:50 -IeZaeL- wrote: I caught Imbatoss maphacking 1 year ago when we played for the same team ( Img ) was in a go4sc2 vs HyuN. HyuN started with a 8pool+banelings and ImbaToss ( withouth any scout) made a perfect wall with gate+forge+canons at his ramp xD.
Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so. hey, this is actually big deal. Now that I think about it there is pretty much no way to have a friendly unit/building unselected (I guess the enemy unit gets unselected if it leaves your vision?) unless it dies or you change the selection. It could actually be a useful tip for a warden. Not that it won't get patched by hacks but it will do their job much harder, and potentially there may be no way to mask enemy unit selection through FoW and hackers will need to refrain from clicking enemy units/buildings through it or they will get busted. Does anyone around here communicate with blizzard employees on the antihacks issue to pass the idea over?
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On August 02 2013 17:13 Plagiator wrote:Just Another thing: Im following this thread from the beginning now. Iin Wol times i met Imbatoss severall times in 2v2 and was wondering how lucky he was by countering my builds. anyway i didnt want to say he hacks without real proofs. Then i saw that jogginghose found that AHK icon in Imbatoss stream, but Imbatoss said this doesnt have anything to do with a hack. So i decided to search for that hack and check myself what kind of icon it shows and so on. But now the strange thing. A new Update of the Hack was released today with following Patchnotes :D : Show nested quote + • The below features are NOT required to be safe from Warden or Blizzard!!! They were simply requested by a user and I was bored. The program's ICON can be changed to a user selected .ico file + The program's/process name can set by the user - This may prevent updates being downloaded correctly (haven't tested) + The icon used in the embedded AHK executable has been changed to a standard application icon - This embedded AHK runs only during a voice announcement. - Its process name will still be listed as AutoHotkey.exe during the announcement (I see no reason to alter this).
fucking funny huh? just think about that and what jogginghose found out.
That's indeed very funny, lol.
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Please, don't ban ImbaToss, his desperate endeavor to save his ass keeps me off coffee in work. I might lose my addiction in a week.
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On August 02 2013 20:57 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 00:50 -IeZaeL- wrote: I caught Imbatoss maphacking 1 year ago when we played for the same team ( Img ) was in a go4sc2 vs HyuN. HyuN started with a 8pool+banelings and ImbaToss ( withouth any scout) made a perfect wall with gate+forge+canons at his ramp xD.
Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so. hey, this is actually big deal. Now that I think about it there is pretty much no way to have a friendly unit/building unselected (I guess the enemy unit gets unselected if it leaves your vision?) unless it dies or you change the selection. It could actually be a useful tip for a warden. Not that it won't get patched by hacks but it will do their job much harder, and potentially there may be no way to mask enemy unit selection through FoW and hackers will need to refrain from clicking enemy units/buildings through it or they will get busted. Does anyone around here communicate with blizzard employees on the antihacks issue to pass the idea over?
Actually you can deselect the unit by shift-clicking on it... It happened today to me at the begin while setting nexus hotkey, I went
click shift(hold) click(misslick) 5
and I stood 5 seconds at the screen wondering what just happened
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Bliz need to do something, also about the drop hacks More then 50% of the games i win i get drop hacked and the game wont show up in my score, it is getting realy annoying and i definatly wont buy the next expansion because of this.
Like this game i played the other day, went 7 pool (this is 4x4) and both of their sides went full wall with cannons without scouting it. Then next is midgame and one of their guys blinked all his stalkers perfectly (wich is impossible for the level of my opponents) so blink micro hack. Somehow we still managed to win, even though they had perfect counters all the time (prob because they expoed realy late due to their wall ins) and then in the end "droppped" can only choose "surrender" to get out of the lock up So extremely annyoing
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On August 03 2013 01:09 Rassy wrote: Bliz need to do something, also about the drop hacks More then 50% of the games i win i get drop hacked and the game wont show up in my score, it is getting realy annoying and i definatly wont buy the next expansion because of this.
If you drop more than 50% of games it's more realistic that it's because of your internet connection.... I dropped 5-6 games in hundreds of them...
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On August 03 2013 01:09 Rassy wrote:Bliz need to do something, also about the drop hacks More then 50% of the games i win i get drop hacked and the game wont show up in my score, it is getting realy annoying and i definatly wont buy the next expansion because of this. Like this game i played the other day, went 7 pool (this is 4x4) and both of their sides went full wall with cannons without scouting it. Then next is midgame and one of their guys blinked all his stalkers perfectly (wich is impossible for the level of my opponents) so blink micro hack. Somehow we still managed to win, even though they had perfect counters all the time (prob because they expoed realy late due to their wall ins) and then in the end "droppped" can only choose "surrender" to get out of the lock up So extremely annyoing
Sure man, 50% of the player use drophack! Seems logic!
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On August 03 2013 01:09 Rassy wrote:Bliz need to do something, also about the drop hacks More then 50% of the games i win i get drop hacked and the game wont show up in my score, it is getting realy annoying and i definatly wont buy the next expansion because of this. Like this game i played the other day, went 7 pool (this is 4x4) and both of their sides went full wall with cannons without scouting it. Then next is midgame and one of their guys blinked all his stalkers perfectly (wich is impossible for the level of my opponents) so blink micro hack. Somehow we still managed to win, even though they had perfect counters all the time (prob because they expoed realy late due to their wall ins) and then in the end "droppped" can only choose "surrender" to get out of the lock up So extremely annyoing
If you're playing 4v4, you know currently it's bugged and both teams get a loss every game, right? Has been confirmed by blizzard, and nothing to do with drophack:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1jj5zo/psa_all_4v4_matches_are_ending_in_losses_for_both/
I don't get when people say drophack is so prevalent; I've played thousands of ladder games, both 1v1 and team games, and have never been dropped/drophacked; maybe dropped a couple times, but it always turned out to be my own internet connection. I know there have been drophacks that have come into existence on and off, but it's always been fairly isolated from what I can tell, and blizzard has been pretty quick about banning both the users and the specific exploits (e.g. a private hacker uses a non-public drophack it to get to the top of GM, then is banned a couple days later, then the drophack is fixed in the next patch).
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Hmm maybe you are right and its a bug, it still is verry annoying though.
Sure man, 50% of the player use drophack! Seems logic!
Only one on the team does need to hack, so it would be 12.5%. Dont understand why people would drophack or cheat in 4x4 since there is nothing to win there. Will check bliz forum next time about bugs before posting about them.
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On August 03 2013 02:18 Rassy wrote: Hmm maybe you are right and its a bug, it still is verry annoying though.
Sure man, 50% of the player use drophack! Seems logic!
Only one on the team does need to hack, so it would be 12.5%. Dont understand why people would drophack or cheat in 4x4 since there is nothing to win there. Will check bliz forum next time about bugs before posting about them.
I still don't buy that anywhere near 12.5% of players are using a drophack. I literally have never been drophacked in three years and quite a few thousand games of ladder, and I play quite often. Like I said above, I know drophacks have existed, but they usually get patched very soon after they're revealed, and they're usually revealed in very public ways because top pros start getting drophacked by the same guy on stream when it happens and it often makes it onto teamliquid.
I'm no programmer, but from what I understand, maphacks are so prevalent because it's very easy to update them for every new patch; new patches "break" maphacks in very superficial ways that are easily fixed. Drophacks are much more difficult to even create because there needs to be a new exploit/method every time. That's why we only hear of drophacks every few months (or even years), because for long stretches of time there are no drophacks in existence until someone figures out a new method. And given that a new patch just came out, the odds that are you have gotten drophacked I would say are just about 0.
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Maphacking in an online tournament that rewards you money is just pathetic and sad. It should even be a crime imo. You're stripping other people from their rightful money. Truly a sad human being you are imbatoss.
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to be honest a good percantage of mackhackers/past negative players are protoss(and terran)
wonder why that trend. I guess P benefits most form hacks because of hardcounters
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I've played a lot of games that have left me feeling very suspicious and demoralized. Getting hard-countered with minimal scouting, and perfect enemy interceptions at all times will do that to you... I think the problem is a lot more widespread, and definitely more present (platinum+) then people care to admit. The very fact that macro can be automated through undetectable hacks makes me feel like this game should be more automated. Maybe everyone should get auto-casting for queen injects, much easier scouting, and automatic unit queues to even the playing field. Maybe they could add more interesting micro to the game/sim city to make micro more important to fill in the gap. I think this is a good reason to get WC 4 rolling out, focusing more on micro will take a lot of the advantages away from the hackers. It's frustrating when you lose, and you can't even be sure that they're hacking. I can't imagine how people who are investing all their time to compete must feel when online tournaments are not even safe and Blizzard does nothing about it.
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Guys this isn't a place to report your hacks, there is another thread for that. Also, how is Strelok's blizz communication going?
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Hey again, all.
I've played imbatoss in a ladder today and went for the tactic that would expose him the most. I will post the replay in my comment below. So first look at the early game, how he wont scout my main with his probe because there are 2 lings standing up the ramp. After he holds my nydus at about 18:00 min, a queen is running to the left side of the map, completley far away from his army and vision, and yet he moves his army to the left and snipes it. He also did blind counter to my nydus swarm host build teching straight to colossus and cutting probes, some of you may think he was going for colossus allin, but that's why I did a fake roach attack before nydus/swarm host to force out immortal, but maphack owns
So here's the replay, very obvious maphack from him, that was my plan when i met him in ladder, to go the tactic that he would counter very obvious and we would have more proof.
So here's the replay. http://drop.sc/353103
P.S: Blizzard, please ban hackers like ImBaTosS and actually care about this game just A LITTLE BIT.
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I guess everyone should just find ImbaToss on the GM ladder and report him. One hundred reports will definately look suspicious to Blizzard. Does he ladder under the same name?
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On August 05 2013 23:15 Starbuck- wrote:Hey again, all. I've played imbatoss in a ladder today and went for the tactic that would expose him the most. I will post the replay in my comment below. So first look at the early game, how he wont scout my main with his probe because there are 2 lings standing up the ramp. After he holds my nydus at about 18:00 min, a queen is running to the left side of the map, completley far away from his army and vision, and yet he moves his army to the left and snipes it. He also did blind counter to my nydus swarm host build teching straight to colossus and cutting probes, some of you may think he was going for colossus allin, but that's why I did a fake roach attack before nydus/swarm host to force out immortal, but maphack owns So here's the replay, very obvious maphack from him, that was my plan when i met him in ladder, to go the tactic that he would counter very obvious and we would have more proof. So here's the replay. http://drop.sc/353103P.S: Blizzard, please ban hackers like ImBaTosS and actually care about this game just A LITTLE BIT.
The problem is the cycle always repeats itself and Blizzard doesn't want to put the resources into it. It's a band-aid approach and it's always been that way. It comes with the territory. So even if Blizzard does a little something it comes right back. :/ I hope there comes a day when we don't have online competition anymore and everything is done from a booth for the big time players anyway. You want to qualify for a league? You come out to qualifiers and let's see what you got in person.
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After he holds my nydus at about 18:00 min, a queen is running to the left side of the map, completley far away from his army and vision, and yet he moves his army to the left and snipes it. So here's the replay. http://drop.sc/353103
Another "lucky" scout by imbatoss when he moves his probe at 22:20 min :D
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played some match vs imbatoss and got blind counter in pvp - but this is the way pvp sometimes works so i guess it's not the best "example"
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On August 05 2013 23:15 Starbuck- wrote:Hey again, all. I've played imbatoss in a ladder today and went for the tactic that would expose him the most. I will post the replay in my comment below. So first look at the early game, how he wont scout my main with his probe because there are 2 lings standing up the ramp. After he holds my nydus at about 18:00 min, a queen is running to the left side of the map, completley far away from his army and vision, and yet he moves his army to the left and snipes it. He also did blind counter to my nydus swarm host build teching straight to colossus and cutting probes, some of you may think he was going for colossus allin, but that's why I did a fake roach attack before nydus/swarm host to force out immortal, but maphack owns So here's the replay, very obvious maphack from him, that was my plan when i met him in ladder, to go the tactic that he would counter very obvious and we would have more proof. So here's the replay. http://drop.sc/353103P.S: Blizzard, please ban hackers like ImBaTosS and actually care about this game just A LITTLE BIT.
To be perfectly honest, I find that there's not a single proof for a maphack in that replay. I've watched it twice and your "key points" even more times.
EDIT: nevermind, I forgot that I'm new on the forums and from Germany, hence I'm probably Imbatoss himself.
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now imbatoss and juicypeach created a team "EEP" "Elite European Players" sounds interesting !
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Blizzard are always slow with everything that doesn't loose them money, Bans probably wont happen that often.
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On August 06 2013 04:49 kaup wrote: now imbatoss and juicypeach created a team "EEP" "Elite European Players" sounds interesting !
Yep, look here for all: http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/august2013_premium1/rankings/
Interesting. Can we assume every other player that is in the team / joins the team hacks aswell, and they are just mass trolling blizzard?
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Apparently he is in the general chat ingame and saying:
[EEP] ImBaTosS: if someone likes to get a better league in his profile then u can just write me and i play ur account in every league u want
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On August 02 2013 21:08 Everlong wrote: Please, don't ban ImbaToss, his desperate endeavor to save his ass keeps me off coffee in work. I might lose my addiction in a week. not sure if troll or serius lol.
on topic: i would like to see maby a system where people who are reported a X amount of time for maphacking an amount of replays would be released to see for further proof for events. maby that would solve some stuff.
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If I were Imbatoss I would be laughing at the helplessness of this community, and rightfully so.
I even think threads like this might be counterproductive because the only thing that people might take away from it is that maphacking etc. has no (serious) consequences whatsoever and if you smart about it people will circlejerk forever if there is “definitive proof” followed by pages of philosophical discussion what “definitive proof” really is and if there actually can be something like that. It’s ridiculous and would be very amusing (for a maphacker it certainly is) if it wasn’t so sad.
I honestly don’t know what to do, obviously neither making threads, nor reports to blizzard have any real impact at all. Demands for effective “anti-cheating” software have died away unheard for 3 years, so obviously these concerns are taken very seriously by blizzard…
So what's really left to do?
- Stop playing and boycott Blizzard? If enough people do it maybe then something gets done (since the only language a company understands is money).
- Try to get the attention of some people who actually have some influence in the community and connections to blizzard. (/summon Totalbiscuit) Maybe it would already help if the topic is brought up in interviews or streams once in a while.
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On July 29 2013 01:51 [F_]aths wrote: Online tournaments could require to run a program which takes screenshots in a random pattern and sends them to the admins. There is no need to run a program which scans the tasklist for suspicious programs. Screenshots, automatically taken and sent to the admins, should be enough. Sounds like a PERFECT solution to me!
Somebody please explain why not use it?
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They will just run the maphack on a 2nd monitor then? They should just run a punkbuster like program looking for the background activities. Its complete bs that this is not possible for privacy reasons, they can just make everyone who joins a tourney give permission to do so and if they dont want give permission then they cant play in the tourney.
Or else remove the fog completely lol, it would be a different game then but still a verry interesting one, lots more about strategic decissions and army control instead of depending on "luck" by getting an unscouted killing blow or techswitch. Scouting itself already depends so much on luck, like terran scan doesnt see all and probe looking across the map but never able to check every spot.
Map vission is verry unfair distributed amongst the races btw. Zerg seeing a quarter to halve+ of the map with their cloaked tumors and overlords, while toss and specially terran play completely in the dark in the early midgame, but i guess that rant is more suited for another thread
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On August 07 2013 17:49 dr.fahrenheit wrote: [*]Try to get the attention of some people who actually have some influence in the community and connections to blizzard. (/summon Totalbiscuit) Maybe it would already help if the topic is brought up in interviews or streams once in a while.
[/list] thats the way to go, constant talk about hackers on ladder in each interview of each tournament, will force blizzard to do something
btw hackertoss now top 5 gm !!! :D
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Check imbatoss match history. he got a lot of free wins .seems legit :D
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On August 07 2013 18:38 Alex1Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:51 [F_]aths wrote: Online tournaments could require to run a program which takes screenshots in a random pattern and sends them to the admins. There is no need to run a program which scans the tasklist for suspicious programs. Screenshots, automatically taken and sent to the admins, should be enough. Sounds like a PERFECT solution to me! Somebody please explain why not use it? coders will rewrite the hack so it turns itself off for a moment when the screenshot is taken. this has been done in counterstrike already. it's a nice idea, but can be worked around.
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Oh hey another map hack thread?
Whats the point?
Not like Blizzard will do anything about it.
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just quit sc2 while you can... faster the better blizzard is simply hopeless
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rank 2 atm something is def going on for someone who barely broke in top 200 according to his career rankings and now he sparks to rank 2 may even get rank 1 hes not that far off.
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look at HIS MATCH HISTORY ! win against the Same Barcode like 10 TImes in row in a 2 sec game is this a insta leave bot for the enemy ? what the f`**k he is so a hacker
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haha so now he play vs himself for free points at 5:00 when no one is online? increible xDDD!
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On August 08 2013 12:06 pvtmomo wrote: look at HIS MATCH HISTORY ! win against the Same Barcode like 10 TImes in row in a 2 sec game is this a insta leave bot for the enemy ? what the f`**k he is so a hacker The barcode wants to practice and not waste his time against a maphacker.
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I reported him directly towards a friend of mine in ESL. He will forward it and even though he cannot say if that gets him a instant ban from ESL and participating cups, I guess we can all agree that you have to start somewhere. Definite proof is hard but there's so much that comes together for imbatoss, sad to see that there's no action taken yet.
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On August 05 2013 23:44 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 23:15 Starbuck- wrote:Hey again, all. I've played imbatoss in a ladder today and went for the tactic that would expose him the most. I will post the replay in my comment below. So first look at the early game, how he wont scout my main with his probe because there are 2 lings standing up the ramp. After he holds my nydus at about 18:00 min, a queen is running to the left side of the map, completley far away from his army and vision, and yet he moves his army to the left and snipes it. He also did blind counter to my nydus swarm host build teching straight to colossus and cutting probes, some of you may think he was going for colossus allin, but that's why I did a fake roach attack before nydus/swarm host to force out immortal, but maphack owns So here's the replay, very obvious maphack from him, that was my plan when i met him in ladder, to go the tactic that he would counter very obvious and we would have more proof. So here's the replay. http://drop.sc/353103P.S: Blizzard, please ban hackers like ImBaTosS and actually care about this game just A LITTLE BIT. The problem is the cycle always repeats itself and Blizzard doesn't want to put the resources into it. It's a band-aid approach and it's always been that way. It comes with the territory. So even if Blizzard does a little something it comes right back. :/ I hope there comes a day when we don't have online competition anymore and everything is done from a booth for the big time players anyway. You want to qualify for a league? You come out to qualifiers and let's see what you got in person. this will limit the entire scene to people who have the time and money to attend qualifiers knowing there is a large possibility that they will make absolutely nothing back on their investment. do you see how this is a problem, especially considering how many high level starcraft players are teenagers?
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I don't know what you guys know, but in the german scene, we all kinda know Imbatoss is maphacking, every game against him is just so obvious.
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Well, just wanted to lay it down that originally I had imbatoss blocked in WoL because he irritated me during 2v2s. When i met my real 2v2 partner "GrenT" He said that imbatoss wasn't a bad guy and that I should give him a chance. Yes, I played some 2v2s with imbatoss, but it was because we had legitimately become friends. I am sad to see he is hacking and his poor excuses have no hope of working on either me or the community. There is no way a top 16 gm on EUROPE which is the 2nd hardest server should use a program called "macro trainer". You would think a top 16 gm would have the concept of macro at this point. Not to mention that he claims that he uses it only to autohotkey which is stupid. Especially since you can click 2 sections away and get a full minimap hack complete with audio warnings on the opponents builds etc... Also even color coding certain threats on the minimap. I'm pissed off and I unadded, ignored, and removed teams with him as of at least 1 week ago. This is pathetic excuse of a company releasing one of the most competitive, fast paced RTS games in gaming history that cannot stop people from hacking or at least make it where hacking is basically not worth it.
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Sadly maphacking is too easy and the risk is too low. I believe most cheaters got their way without ever being caught and also won money with it, some even a lot. You also get better maphacking so it's win/win since nobody really cared enough to find a real solution.
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I've seen this guy lose to TLO the other day. Like, 4-5 games in a row. I can't believe he is almost rank 1 atm.
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I tweeted to blizzard community manager this thread. We will see.
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I think community figures are kinda like the parents in a school system, where the school can give less than a shit what the kids think and just worry about satisfying the parents. That being said aside from the occasional joke I've never seen or heard of programers upset about maphacks. I think the only way we can even get a response from blizzard is if we can get a community figure/ progamer to ask about it.
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I think penis.
User was temp banned for this post.
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This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring
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On August 08 2013 20:40 aTnClouD wrote: Sadly maphacking is too easy and the risk is too low. I believe most cheaters got their way without ever being caught and also won money with it, some even a lot. You also get better maphacking so it's win/win since nobody really cared enough to find a real solution. I know what you mean
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I have faced him on ladder a long time ago and also had very suspicious moments.
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Blizzard still haven't banned him and reseted his account?... And now he is #1 in EU GM.
This is embarrassing.
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On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring
do you by that mean you wanted to prove how big of an issue maphacking is or what?
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On August 11 2013 04:07 19Meavis93 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring do you by that mean you wanted to prove how big of an issue maphacking is or what? I think he's just trying to push off the reality. He realised that all the time he spent on Starcraft2 was wasted when this topic was created and he got caught. That must be trully awful feeling.
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On August 11 2013 04:14 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 04:07 19Meavis93 wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring do you by that mean you wanted to prove how big of an issue maphacking is or what? I think he's just trying to push off the reality. He realised that all the time he spent on Starcraft2 was wasted when this topic was created and he got caught. That must be trully awful feeling.
unfortunatly most of those retards are having fun playing with us non-hackers this post above by that ....................................................................... just proofs that
look at nerffy, he s created like 10 reddit accounts with -1000 karma and still writes shit
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On August 11 2013 04:22 myRZeth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 04:14 Nerchio wrote:On August 11 2013 04:07 19Meavis93 wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring do you by that mean you wanted to prove how big of an issue maphacking is or what? I think he's just trying to push off the reality. He realised that all the time he spent on Starcraft2 was wasted when this topic was created and he got caught. That must be trully awful feeling. unfortunatly most of those retards are having fun playing with us non-hackers this post above by that ....................................................................... just proofs that look at nerffy, he s created like 10 reddit accounts with -1000 karma and still writes shit yes but nerffy is so bad it doesn't even matter that he hacks...still loses most of his game if you are any good.
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I daresay maphack is one of the smaller problems in SC2 right now. If I had to choose betwen Blizzard fixing broken mechanics in the game (such as the entire protoss race) OR developing a system 100% safe against hacks, I would choose the first option without thinking twice.
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On August 11 2013 05:30 ( bush wrote: I daresay maphack is one of the smaller problems in SC2 right now. If I had to choose betwen Blizzard fixing broken mechanics in the game (such as the entire protoss race) OR developing a system 100% safe against hacks, I would choose the first option without thinking twice. no, you condone hacking? jesus
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On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring
You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free.
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I remember playing imbatoss in WoL way earlu in the day. He made alot of suspect plays as well
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On August 11 2013 05:57 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 05:38 crappyleft wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free. It was EmpireHappy not Kas , and it was just 11 wins man next time use some true informations why isnt this faggot permabanned on TL yet
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On August 11 2013 06:00 zainsaGOD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 05:57 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:On August 11 2013 05:38 crappyleft wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free. It was EmpireHappy not Kas , and it was just 11 wins man next time use some true informations why isnt this faggot permabanned on TL yet
Its My thread man , so i won't get banned , cuz i have to comment ur amazing posts
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On August 11 2013 05:33 zainsaGOD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 05:30 ( bush wrote: I daresay maphack is one of the smaller problems in SC2 right now. If I had to choose betwen Blizzard fixing broken mechanics in the game (such as the entire protoss race) OR developing a system 100% safe against hacks, I would choose the first option without thinking twice. no, you condone hacking? jesus
I am just trying to say that if we didnt have ridiculously bad designed mechanics in the game such as fraudulent unit hardcounter systems, maphacks would be easily beaten by superior play.
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Don't you guys think if every1 tweets at blizzard about maphacks instead of posting on here it'ld have more of an impact because i feel like these threads are going nowhere its kinda like a forum tread for abused housewives =/.
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On August 11 2013 06:29 ScLight wrote: Don't you guys think if every1 tweets at blizzard about maphacks instead of posting on here it'ld have more of an impact because i feel like these threads are going nowhere its kinda like a forum tread for abused housewives =/. -we allready do -blizzard does more or less nothing -if you know your opponent is a hacker (by reading this thread for example), you can play super-save or save time like happy does.
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On August 11 2013 05:57 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 05:38 crappyleft wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free. It was EmpireHappy not Kas , and it was just 11 wins man next time use some true informations
oh yes because only 11 wins are less ... come on thats ...
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On August 11 2013 06:03 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 06:00 zainsaGOD wrote:On August 11 2013 05:57 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:On August 11 2013 05:38 crappyleft wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free. It was EmpireHappy not Kas , and it was just 11 wins man next time use some true informations why isnt this faggot permabanned on TL yet Its My thread man , so i won't get banned , cuz i have to comment ur amazing posts
I really didn't think it was possible to be this obnoxious about SC2, the fact that you're barely even comprehensible makes you seem even stupider LOL.
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On August 11 2013 05:57 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 05:38 crappyleft wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free. It was EmpireHappy not Kas , and it was just 11 wins man next time use some true informations
You realize that it's a matter of time before your account gets banned in here and in battlenet? Then you're back to being anonymous as you have no positive qualities whatsoever.
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this is a looooong thread, so i guess im hoping somebody can tell me, ICCup had the hack free launcher for BW, couldnt we have something like that for sc2? that and im not sure how well that worked for countering hacks any insight for me?
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I really hope this imbatoss guy dies a horrible death.
User was warned for this post
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On August 11 2013 16:14 intense555 wrote: I really hope this imbatoss guy dies a horrible death.
wow
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On August 11 2013 16:14 intense555 wrote: I really hope this imbatoss guy dies a horrible death.
Ok thats disguisting.
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No point in wasting time in this thread. He hacks.. end of story, goodbye, the end.
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On August 11 2013 16:29 SpecialistSc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 16:14 intense555 wrote: I really hope this imbatoss guy dies a horrible death. wow
Lol.... Personally I hope someone puts "imbatoss" behind bars, because if its true that he hacks in tournaments like everyone says and wins money with it he is doing a scam. That cant be legal..
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On August 11 2013 16:59 AyaaLa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 16:29 SpecialistSc wrote:On August 11 2013 16:14 intense555 wrote: I really hope this imbatoss guy dies a horrible death. wow Lol.... Personally I hope someone puts "imbatoss" behind bars, because if its true that he hacks in tournaments like everyone says and wins money with it he is doing a scam. That cant be legal.. behind bars for cheating in a video game tournament? never ever ever happen
depending on what type of contract/agreement players are required to consent to upon joining the tournament, they may be able to sue for the prize money. a good lawyer might also be able to get a small sum of damages for wrecking the credibility of the tournament, which could hurt tournaments' viewerships and sponsorships.
but jail? i don't see how that is even remotely possible
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It might be considered embezzlement
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there is also no point in streaming imbatoss. maphacks can be hidden on stream so that doesnt prove anything
hacker on #1 ladder eu and blizz isnt doing anything Atleast i hope for some kind of justification from the blizz team
i hope you die a in a hole retard imbatoss
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On August 11 2013 05:57 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 05:38 crappyleft wrote:On August 11 2013 03:31 2on2.ImBaTosS wrote:This is just for u guys , u were my inspiring You somehow forgot to mention the 15+ free wins you got from kas on the ladder. For obvious reasons he decided not to play against you. It's weird that you come here bragging about your ladder rank without mentioning the fact that you got ~200 points for free. It was EmpireHappy not Kas , and it was just 11 wins man next time use some true informations It's funny cause you are like acting total badass but you arent worth anything :D
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So, instead of posting shit with no meat in it here, start collecting replays and thoroughly analyze them. I am not able to do that because i don't have that much game knowledge, but some gm/pro players should be able to do it. Start with the replays which got him 75€: http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/august2013_premium1/match/28780068/http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/go4sc2/august2013_premium1/match/28780068/
With no real evidence/proof (= a collection of current replays) it is very hard to punish someone. But besides that, it is very sad that blizzard doesn't even post something along the lines "we are investigating" or something like that.
edit: okay talked to monty, replays are no evidence for maphacking.
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wow great reaction time man , i am proud of u. And about esl , they are just smarter then u guys and they dont believe every rumor thats going around.
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TO be fair, and he may well be cheating, but everyone said they thought Nerchio might be map hacking back in the day, but then he put out solid non-online results as well which eventually shut people up.
While it's not specific to this Imbatoss guy, there have been rumours about people who could be hacking but are just good.
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On July 28 2013 23:02 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:49 grs wrote:On July 28 2013 22:47 krazykoz wrote: IMO, the best way to combat this in online competitions is to have blizzard/tournament organizers create a simple program that players must run on their machine when they choose to compete in those tournaments and it would allow an admin to view any active programs. Given it is the player's choice to enter those tournaments, it wouldn't be a privacy situation as those players could choose to not enter the tournaments.
By limiting it to the tournament scene, there would not be as much incentive for hackers to find a way around that program as most hacks are developed for general use on ladder where they reach a broader audience. Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money. ESEA does it Bringing ESEA as an exemplary standard for legal software is a joke at best.
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On August 18 2013 03:35 ImBaTosS.SC2 wrote:wow great reaction time man , i am proud of u. And about esl , they are just smarter then u guys and they dont believe every rumor thats going around. How did it feel to get kicked of your team?
You shouldn't be upset though. You're such a talented player, I'm sure you have so many offers you don't even know which one to accept
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On August 18 2013 03:55 Lonyo wrote: TO be fair, and he may well be cheating, but everyone said they thought Nerchio might be map hacking back in the day, but then he put out solid non-online results as well which eventually shut people up.
While it's not specific to this Imbatoss guy, there have been rumours about people who could be hacking but are just good.
Im not saying Nerchio did hack, but having offline results means nothing in those situations. Maphack wont make you 10 times better (or total trash without using it) unless you are so blatant that everyone knows you are hacking (like Gerudo / FnaticTricky who had platinum mechanics and played on GM for a long time).
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On August 18 2013 04:13 ( bush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 03:55 Lonyo wrote: TO be fair, and he may well be cheating, but everyone said they thought Nerchio might be map hacking back in the day, but then he put out solid non-online results as well which eventually shut people up.
While it's not specific to this Imbatoss guy, there have been rumours about people who could be hacking but are just good. Im not saying Nerchio did hack, but having offline results means nothing in those situations. Maphack wont make you 10 times better (or total trash without using it) unless you are so blatant that everyone knows you are hacking (like Gerudo / FnaticTricky who had platinum mechanics and played on GM for a long time). This entirely. It's how people boost names at a high level most times. Maphack, or production tab, and already high masters/gm skills. A lot comes in the surprises of certain attacks, if you can stop a lot of the all ins, and always have build advantages with already decently high skills, you'll be able to hide it well and crush face fast for your $s/wins
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so how do we get this moron banned? he's blatantly hacking and brags about it here on TL. Can't believe he's not received life-time ban yet.
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actually i have proof, where he admits hacking and laughs about ESL and stuff
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On August 18 2013 06:56 myRZeth wrote: actually i have proof, where he admits hacking and laughs about ESL and stuff
can you post it?
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This is another unfortunate reason barely anyone watches/cares about online tournaments, they're as illegitimate as an NA player in WCS KR. There are definitely a lot more that aren't obvious enough to get caught.
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At first I did believe he might be playing fair, but the posts Imbatoss made here prove for 100% he is a maphacker, only a real maphacker would talk like that. Hope you get caught and banned soon!
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On August 18 2013 19:47 Diderick wrote: At first I did believe he might be playing fair, but the posts Imbatoss made here prove for 100% he is a maphacker, only a real maphacker would talk like that. Hope you get caught and banned soon!
The funny fact is that he is still participating at tournaments like todays go4sc2.... He played vs a team mate in round 4 and sometimes he just was "afk" during the game, where the camera just didnt move. For #1 GM he has so low Apm and such a bad macro. He just makes really good decisions based on nearly zero scout with a mid-high master ability to macro I would say...
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Well he'll be fighting Nerchio soon in the current Go4sc2 cup. If he beats him 2-0, we can also ask for some replays from desrow if he gets that far.
People are saying he uses auto hotkeys when he plays as well (not really sure if that's true at all), but easily accessible stuff.
Rooting for desRow to punish him, I don't believe some rando is going to put him down legitimately.
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On August 19 2013 00:33 FetusThrower wrote: Well he'll be fighting Nerchio soon in the current Go4sc2 cup. If he beats him 2-0, we can also ask for some replays from desrow if he gets that far.
People are saying he uses auto hotkeys when he plays as well (not really sure if that's true at all), but easily accessible stuff.
Rooting for desRow to punish him, I don't believe some rando is going to put him down legitimately.
*Strelok actually, or ParaNOid
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Had a short chat about the whole situation. Will try and find a video link at a later date if it gets published. Hope it will help a bit.
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Played imbatoss last go4sc2 wednesday, we had a few obs in the game, not sure, was he hacking or not, but i was surprised by he's bad micro and decision making, eventually he lost, double proxy gates at 3rd on neo planet s. He didn't blind countered it and didn't scouted at all, but micro and decision making, wasn't looks like he is at the very top of GM, typical high masters are better at those things.
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On July 28 2013 22:34 sLideSC2 wrote: Blizzard needs to either open up more data or develop a punkbuster-esque software for these things to stop happening.
Punk Buster would be great. Infact all online games should use something like this. It doesn't have to be punk buster but something cooler, and maybe includes pandas . For a company that has so much control over their game, blizzard really lacks simple things with SC II, and once again this is another thing that could be prevented, but it isn't....
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Yeah, that's what i am talking about. Everyone knows this person maphacks, but not a single tournament kicked him. Very painfull to watch. I again lost to him today in semi of ESL cup. Again very obvious maphack movements from him. But who cares...
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On August 19 2013 02:33 Strelok wrote: Yeah, that's what i am talking about. Everyone knows this person maphacks, but not a single tournament kicked him. Very painfull to watch. I again lost to him today in semi of ESL cup. Again very obvious maphack movements from him. But who cares...
I do man. Sucks to be you.
May this guy be struck down by lightning.
Makes me sad to see people like you getting cheated out of the practice they put in the game.
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I feel for you strelok. Sometimes retribution does not come fast. Sometimes you have to wait for justice. People DO care about this bullshit Imbatoss is throwing at the community. It will be all the better when we finally see his ass kicked from ESL and ip banned on the server. Just be patient. Blizzard and ESL might be slow and cautious but that is just how this works.
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my god his mechanics and everything is so awful. its so clear hes maphacking otherwise he wouldnt even be in grandmaster at all -____-
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On August 19 2013 02:33 Strelok wrote: Yeah, that's what i am talking about. Everyone knows this person maphacks, but not a single tournament kicked him. Very painfull to watch. I again lost to him today in semi of ESL cup. Again very obvious maphack movements from him. But who cares...
He's banned at every mystarcraft tournament (all the ones that Mori does host). I hope ESL will step in soon. Its blatantly obvious..
Edit: If you guys want him to be banned on Teamliquid, you need to put up the evidence against him (replays+timestamps+explanation) alltogether and a big post. An admin will ban him based on that, but I got no time to search through everything.
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Dear ImbaToss, cya @ LAN! Oh... wait a minute ...
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ESL should step up and BAN him already and stop with the excuses that replays will be "checked" by special admin team... Man up and ban that hacker already.
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Pro-Players should use their voice to complain directly to Blizzard (and tournament organisers as 2nd priority). Posting on TL and Twitter has - for very obvious reasons - no consequences. Why don't you use your voice on the official Blizzard forums?
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On August 20 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Why don't you use your voice on the official Blizzard forums? 'Naming and shaming' is bannable on Battle.net forums. The thread will be removed & forum write rights potentially removed. --> Thus third party sites like TL or reddit have to be used, if these kind of cases are brought to public knowledge.
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On July 29 2013 03:53 TargA wrote: I also lost to a maphacker in WCS qualifiers, blizzard arent doing too much about it sadly
Really??? This more than just sad D:
Blizzard needs to be up-to-date at hacks, I would like to hear something like "Blizzards Anti-Cheat squad formed"!
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On August 20 2013 22:18 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Why don't you use your voice on the official Blizzard forums? 'Naming and shaming' is bannable on Battle.net forums. The thread will be removed & forum write rights potentially removed. --> Thus third party sites like TL or reddit have to be used, if these kind of cases are brought to public knowledge. No, it is completely poinless from Blizzard's pov. This is just a fansite (though a big one). This and all the twitter complaints serve zero purpose, but to vent.
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On August 20 2013 22:27 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 22:18 korona wrote:On August 20 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Why don't you use your voice on the official Blizzard forums? 'Naming and shaming' is bannable on Battle.net forums. The thread will be removed & forum write rights potentially removed. --> Thus third party sites like TL or reddit have to be used, if these kind of cases are brought to public knowledge. No, it is completely poinless from Blizzard's pov. This is just a fansite (though a big one). This and all the twitter complaints serve zero purpose, but to vent. No. Battle.net forums indeed have those rules.
And bringing these kind of cases to public knowledge is a good thing (if there is a good enough case). At least people know and allows people to build cases. Maybe even pressures Blizzard to act in some cases. If all these kind of things would be done behind the scenes via Blizzard's hack forms, nobody would know. And still potentially nothing would happen.
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On August 20 2013 22:26 Big-t wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 03:53 TargA wrote: I also lost to a maphacker in WCS qualifiers, blizzard arent doing too much about it sadly Really??? This more than just sad D: Blizzard needs to be up-to-date at hacks, I would like to hear something like "Blizzards Anti-Cheat squad formed"! Probably just Targa's personal grudge with Alastor. He likes to call Alastor a hacker.
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On August 20 2013 22:34 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 22:27 grs wrote:On August 20 2013 22:18 korona wrote:On August 20 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Why don't you use your voice on the official Blizzard forums? 'Naming and shaming' is bannable on Battle.net forums. The thread will be removed & forum write rights potentially removed. --> Thus third party sites like TL or reddit have to be used, if these kind of cases are brought to public knowledge. No, it is completely poinless from Blizzard's pov. This is just a fansite (though a big one). This and all the twitter complaints serve zero purpose, but to vent. No. Battle.net forums indeed have those rules. And bringing these kind of cases to public knowledge is a good thing (if there is a good enough case). At least people know and allows people to build cases. Maybe even pressures Blizzard to act in some cases. If all these kind of things would be done behind the scenes via Blizzard's hack forms, nobody would know. And still potentially nothing would happen. I guess you missed, that this case is public like a month or more. Nothing happens if you don't use the official channels, be it Blizzard or Tournaments or TL.
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On August 20 2013 22:36 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 22:34 korona wrote:On August 20 2013 22:27 grs wrote:On August 20 2013 22:18 korona wrote:On August 20 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Why don't you use your voice on the official Blizzard forums? 'Naming and shaming' is bannable on Battle.net forums. The thread will be removed & forum write rights potentially removed. --> Thus third party sites like TL or reddit have to be used, if these kind of cases are brought to public knowledge. No, it is completely poinless from Blizzard's pov. This is just a fansite (though a big one). This and all the twitter complaints serve zero purpose, but to vent. No. Battle.net forums indeed have those rules. And bringing these kind of cases to public knowledge is a good thing (if there is a good enough case). At least people know and allows people to build cases. Maybe even pressures Blizzard to act in some cases. If all these kind of things would be done behind the scenes via Blizzard's hack forms, nobody would know. And still potentially nothing would happen. I guess you missed, that this case is public like a month or more. Nothing happens if you don't use the official channels, be it Blizzard or Tournaments or TL. And most likely some have used 'official channels'. Bringing the case into public knowledge does not mean that other means can not be used parallel.
Also please note that the entire time I have only referenced your suggestion to report people on Battle.net forums that is not allowed.
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Then why is he still #1 GM as of now?
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He is also banned from ESL following Blizzards confirmation.
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Russian Federation40169 Posts
On August 22 2013 06:30 TheDwf wrote:Then why is he still #1 GM as of now? Because banning him only means removing access to the account. Nobody has removed account :D
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On August 23 2013 02:40 lolfail9001 wrote:Because banning him only means removing access to the account. Nobody has removed account :D They could at least remove him from GM so his account doesn't stay at the top as a trophy...
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I am very happy, that all my time on those complaints was not wasted. It's the first time in SC2, when after complaint of a several players - rather big name was banned. Can become really good precendent.
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wow, took them long enough
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The maphacks are undetectable, I checked all the replays of him in this and the other hacking thread and there were alot of suspiciousness in all replays and he never got caught of guard etc.
But there were never any super obvious thing that made him a confirmed cheater so I wonder what blizzard "saw" that made them ban him.
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On August 23 2013 03:37 Souldrinkah wrote: The maphacks are undetectable, I checked all the replays of him in this and the other hacking thread and there were alot of suspiciousness in all replays and he never got caught of guard etc.
But there were never any super obvious thing that made him a confirmed cheater so I wonder what blizzard "saw" that made them ban him.
If you think deeply, you'll get to the conclusion that the only thing that can confirm a cheater is a picture of him cheating.
The "thing" Blizzard used is called common sense. I could send my last 1000 replays for people to analyze and they wouldnt find a quarter of suspicious things as they did in his replays.
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