How do you feel about advancing to the semi-finals?
I was actually worried since things went so well during practice. I tend to get worried whenever I do poorly or too well during practice. I expected myself to advance, but I feel dazed since I advanced so easily.
Did you anticipate your match to finish this quickly?
I had anticipated a 3-0 victory as long as I was able to win the first game but I feel strange because it ended up really happening. The first game was that important because this was a mirror match and I put that much priority to it. I think this end result was possible because I was able to win the first game as I had anticipated.
Why were you able to win in such a dominating fashion?
I’m not sure why sOs was like that but it felt like he was feeling impatient, and I felt at ease as I blocked sOs’ attacks. It just felt like sOs was playing impatiently.
You are taking down all the champions. Do you become stronger if you’re matched up against a strong opponent?
The players that I face are all there because they’re so good, and that’s the only reason that I keep getting matched up against them. I don’t necessarily think I get stronger against strong opponents. I don’t really think about it much.
Since Protoss seems to be so strong right now, don’t you have an advantage since you’re so strong in PvP?
Everyone keeps saying that Protoss is strong right now, but among the gamers, we feel that Protoss has been rapidly suffering ever since the patch. I am anticipating that Protoss will weaken for next season. But I don’t want to be included in there and keep remaining as a strong player.
Who do you think will advance to the semi-finals between Rain and herO?
I acknowledge the fact that they are both good players, and though I don’t necessarily care who advances, I would like to avoid facing herO since I am good friends with him. It’s a little too much for me to say that I want him to lose, but I can’t help but feel that I’ll be at ease if Rain advances.
Now that you’ve advanced to the semis, the finals are within your eyesight. Are you confident?
Since I’ve been looking at the championship ever since I got through the qualifiers, I feel indifferent since I have always been thinking about the finals. I will do my best no matter what so that I can win the championship.
It seems like the SK Telecom all-kill ignited you up. What do you think about this?
With the start of this season, I was bursting with confidence, but I was worried because I wasn’t performing as well as I had thought I would. After all-killing SK Telecom, I found confidence, things became easier during televised matches, and I figured out how to perform for televised matches.
The weather is still pretty chilly, so why did you wear short sleeves?
It’s a new uniform, so I put it on because I wanted to play with a good feeling. I wasn’t really cold because there was a heater (laughs).
It seems like you’ve been becoming more attractive lately as well. Is this related to your winning streak?
Personally, I don’t have any confidence in my looks. I’m growing my hair out right now, but it covers my face, so I guess maybe that’s why (laughs).
Anything else you would like to say?
I want to thank MyuNgSiK and Stats hyung for helping me with practice even though we’re supposed to be on break. I also want to thank First for helping me with practice even though he’s on a different team. I want to thank my family for always cheering for me, and I want to thank my friends all the way back from my hometown as well. I also want to thank the fans, and lastly, I want to thank the supervisor.
How do you feel about advancing to the semi-finals after taking down the predator, herO?
I have lost a lot of televised matches to herO. I don’t feel this way at all, but the fans and people around me all keep saying that herO is my predator. I was confident that I could win since I viewed herO as any other Protoss player, and I think I was able to show that today satisfactorily.
In your televised interview, you stated that your momentum was not at its best. How come?
I think that I am lacking in skill because I’m not performing as well in Proleague, and I feel that Protoss has gotten worse with this new patch. I still have a lot of practicing to do. Recently, I’ve kept on playing PvPs so I think that’s why my confidence is at an okay level. But I still haven’t adapted to the game as well. A little off topic, but I am relieved that all those Terran players were eliminated from the GSL before the patch took place. If not, then I feel that only TvTs would have occurred.
So is Protoss really in that bad of a situation? Some could argue that you’re exaggerating.
Right now, the top 16 spots on ladder is taken by 10 Terran players. Normally, Terran players don’t do so well on ladder but I feel that things have gotten very serious now that there are 10 Terran players up there. When I see things like that, I feel that I’m not the only one who does badly in PvT. Widow mines have become very OP. In fact, I actually think that BW spider mines were better. That additional damage against shield was really big. Now Protoss can’t play using a templar build order. Once Terrans realized that, they are now so much more daring. And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor/Corruptor level.
You will face Zest for the semi-finals. Are you confident?
On a regular basis, I feel that Zest is an excellent player. He is so good at PvP. I normally don’t really acknowledge that anyone is particularly good at PvP since everyone has such a different style, but Zest has a chosen concept that he sticks to, which is similar to how I play, and overall, he is just very good.
You have a chance to grab revenge against Zest. What do you think about this?
I do need to grab revenge since I’ve lost to Zest many times for Proleague, but it’s not like I have any hard feelings about it. I do have the desire to grab revenge though. It’s strange, because I’m close with KT players, all except Zest.
Zest is taking down all the SC2 champions so doesn’t that put pressure on you?
That’s still better than facing a Terran (laughs). I don’t want to make a sick comment but it is better than facing a Terran. I think I would actually welcome it. I have confidence in PvP. I think it will be doable.
Do your teammates also agree that Terran is strong?
Even the practice players acknowledge it. Protoss got screwed because Terran players are overwhelmingly free styling it (laughs). Protoss sucks too much. Out of a Terran buff or a Protoss nerf, only one is supposed to occur at a time but it’s so difficult since they both occurred. It’s difficult to win unless you go blink stalker, but Terran players who know how to block it block it really well.
It seems like your play style has become more diversified after watching today’s match. Is this an advanced side of you?
Rather than say it’s a style, it’s more like there are a lot of situations these days where going for a maxed out 200/200 battle is not possible anymore. So for boX matches, I prefer to stick to the basics. I have moments where I like to choose which build order I’m going to do when I’m actually at the scene, but for today I came with chosen build orders. So my strategies were prepared beforehand.
Now that you have arrived at the semi-finals, the finals are within your eyesight. Are you confident that you’ll win the championship?
For the finals, as long as the preparation time is long, I think I’ll be able to overcome all kinds of difficulties. Now, normally the correct thing to say would be that I will win the championship after overcoming difficulties, but I don’t think I can because Terran is so OP. That’s how much confidence I am lacking. But I am relieved since there’s only one Terran player. I didn’t think that I would even make it to the semi-finals, but I think I was able to because I played a PvP. In fact, I think I could grab the championship as long as I can overcome Zest. I think I’ll find confidence once that happens.
If Maru can defeat Life, then he will face the winner of PartinG vs soO. Do you think they have what it takes to stop Maru?
It will be difficult for PartinG since he’s Protoss (laughs), and I think it will be possible for soO if they meet. You know, even back when Zerg was dominating for WoL, I never said things like this in an interview. These days, things are very difficult. Even before the patch took place, Maru himself stated that Terran was doable. Now that the patch is here, just imagine how much stronger he got.
Anything else you would like to say?
I’ve been worried since I haven’t been feeling the best because of my poor Proleague performance, but since I was able to make it to the semi-finals, I will do my best to make sure I can advance to the finals. We will face CJ this week for Proleague, and I will make sure I use this confidence that I earned from today’s match to win in Proleague too, so I hope people will tune in for that.
How do you feel about advancing to the semi-finals after such a long time?
Honestly, I thought I was going to get eliminated once I fell down 1-2. But the build orders cross over a lot. I think I got lucky.
Your opponent was Maru, whose momentum was really good. What did you anticipate for today’s match?
Honestly I told myself that it was going to be difficult. I saw my match against Maru as my biggest obstacle to overcome this season, and my skills died off a lot because I had to attend an overseas tournament and I couldn’t practice for about a week. It feels even better that I was able to secure a victory during this difficult situation.
Contrary to the value of your name, it’s been such a long time since you’ve made it to a semi-final. How come?
I wasn’t able to advance all this time because I did so poorly. But now it is time for me to extend my wings.
You won game on but you lost game two right away and the situation got dicey. What was the situation like?
I dropped my guard too much since the build orders got crossed over so much. I thought I was in an okay situation since I forced a CC cancel on game two but I fell into a disadvantageous situation as the game progressed.
After Maru won game three, you were in a very disadvantageous situation. Wasn’t there pressure there?
I just released all thoughts and played. During game four on Alterzim, Maru went for a one rax dual CC, and then for additional barracks and triple CC play. I decided to go for roach pressure, and because Maru went for blue flame, luck followed me from there on out and I was able to win.
It looked like Maru’s hellion play for game five was detrimental. How come you were able to make a comeback?
I saw a timing opportunity once my mutas were up and running. I felt that I would be able to break through if I sent them to attack and I think that was the right decision. It worked out because I had no backup plan.
Now that you’ve advanced to the semi-finals, it seems like the finals is a possibility?
I don’t know about that yet but it does seem like an opportunity has risen for me once more.
Who would you like to face for the semi-finals, PartinG or soO?
I don’t really want to face either of them since I’m close with them both. But I think facing a Zerg will be better than facing a Protoss.
You will face a Protoss player in the finals. Do you have a good record for ZvP?
I have a good record on ladder, but honestly, I wonder why I am able to win when I win. I still don’t know right now. I think I might find hope though if I keep preparing up until the finals.
Did that incident where you detonated all your banelings affect your performance afterwards?
That happens to me quite a lot on ladder as well. I’m thinking about switching keyboards. I don’t even know how it keeps happening so of course it’s going to be on my mind. I think that’s why I eventually lost that game on Heavy Rain.
Is it safe to say Life has been revived based on today’s victory?
I always dream about a revival. Since my game is going so well right now, if I can win the championship during the finals then I think I can say that I’ve been revived.
Anything else you would like to say?
I want to thank Red Bull for sponsoring us. I will work even harder for my fans who cheer me on and win the championship this season so that I can show a good form.
How do you feel about advancing to the semi-finals after taking down PartinG again?
I am glad that I was able to make it to the semi-finals but this was just like last year. I once again had to take down PartinG to get there. I’m sure that I’m a jerk from PartinG’s perspective. I am going to have to work hard and win so that I can at least make up for it.
How come you always have the advantage vs PartinG?
Whenever PartinG is about to face someone, he always corresponds to what the opponent is doing. But he says he can’t do that for me because whenever he asks about me to the other teammates, all he gets are answers that I play multiple styles. I think he keeps falling to me because he doesn’t know me well.
Your play style has become more diversified. Is this an influence from Soulkey?
That is correct. I absorbed a lot of Soulkey hyung’s traits ever since he arrived. He has been a big help in my skills increasing. Thanks to him, I think I’m at a point now where I am capable of doing all kinds of different things.
What kind of score were you expecting for today?
Honestly, if the score didn’t turn out to be a 3-0 then I was expecting our match to be difficult. I thought that I would be able to finish it off quickly, but I wasn’t able to block his immortal all-in on Yeonsu so that shook me up mentally. But I was able to win because I was able to get it together.
How come you weren’t able to block his immortal all-in even though you saw it early on?
The fact that I saw it so early on was the downfall. I got way too nervous because I thought that his rush was coming really early. He delayed his attack and sent his warp prism over, so I thought he pulled a fake and decided to play a macro game, and right there when I let me guard down, that’s when he appeared. I think that was the reason as to why I lost.
Maru was eliminated. Did you expect to face a Zerg for the semis?
Nope. When Soulkey hyung got eliminated after the season started, I really didn’t anticipate that I would meet any Zergs from there on out. I am a little flustered since now I have to play a ZvZ, but I have confidence in my ZvZ so I don’t feel any kind of pressure even though it was Life who made it through.
Your situation is very similar to last season’s. You will face a Zerg in the semi-finals, and then you will go on to face a Protoss for the finals. Do you think you’ll be able to win the championship?
I’ve said this to my teammates many times. This scenario is exactly like the JOGUNSHOP GSL from last year. When I think about that time, it’s a good sign as to the possibility of me advancing to the finals.
Last time, you settled for second place because of Dear’s zealot aggression. Do you have confidence in your ZvP?
In all honesty, isn’t the finals stage more nerve wracking? Because of that I tend to miss a lot of things, but if I can just keep working hard with all my experience piled up from last season, then I think I’ll be able to do well and not get shaken up.
The other semi-finalists are Zest and Rain. What do you think will happen there?
I don’t want to face another team kill. I really want to avoid a team kill for the finals if possible. I really want to avoid a team kill to the point where I want to face Zest for the finals. But I can’t really say for sure who will win since they’re both so good.
According to Life, Protoss still have the advantage vs Zergs. What do you think?
Recently, a lot of players have been talking about race balance through the media. It seems like the race that gets talked about the most receive the buffs. So from now on, I’m also going to be taking part in that (laughs). Zerg is very difficult. It is difficult to hit your injects as soon as 25 energy is available and it is cumbersome to have to lay down creep tumors. Overall, you have to use your hands so much. I guess you can see it as having to do a lot of labor work. I wish aspects like that would get a little easier. Maybe something like auto-injects (laughs)?
Anything else you would like to say?
For the Ro16, Classic hyung, PartinG, and Rain all had to be in the same group. After PartinG won against Classic hyung, he stated that he was going to treat Classic hyung to something delicious. So just like that, I’m going to do the same for PartinG. I am grateful to the fans who always cheer for me, and I think I am able to find strength whenever coach Hyuk lends me his earphones. I always win. So I want to take this moment to thank him for that.
Methods to locating SC2 interviews!
Go to the TL.net search bar and type in [Interview] and then search. You will find the most recent interviews at the top
Go to the liquipedia page for that specific tournament and find this icon: If you click on that icon, it will take you to the interview for that group's match winners
Thanks for the translation Seeker! Still a bit shocked that both sOs and herO are out. Wonder if they are tired coming back from IEM or something. Still, poor herO sOs already won $100k so losing isn't a big deal here XD
On March 20 2014 10:21 igay wrote: Shit will this be the beginning of the end for herO? He has suffered some big blows in the past week.
You think a 4ish day period out of an entire career has much of any significance?
You say that, but look what happened to DRG. He lost his shot at playing in front of his home crowd by losing the GSL semi and the GSTL semifinal ace match back to back, and subsequently went into an enormous slump.
lol Rain's interview is kind of funny. I wonder if he would rather avoid Maru in the final since he claims Terran is so good or hope for a chance at revenge from OSL last year?
A little off topic, but I am relieved that all those Terran players were eliminated from the GSL before the patch took place. If not, then I feel that only TvTs would have occurred.
And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor level.
Just goes to show that even the best and most hard working pro gamers can be biased. If that was Parting interview I would even think he is trolling us....
On March 20 2014 09:45 Seeker wrote: I am relieved that all those Terran players were eliminated from the GSL before the patch took place. If not, then I feel that only TvTs would have occurred.
I feel that things have gotten very serious now that there are 10 Terran players up there. When I see things like that, I feel that I’m not the only one who does badly in PvT. Widow mines have become very OP. In fact, I actually think that BW spider mines were better. That additional damage against shield was really big. Now Protoss can’t play using a templar build order. Once Terrans realized that, they are now so much more daring. And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor level.
That’s still better than facing a Terran (laughs). I don’t want to make a sick comment but it is better than facing a Terran.
Even the practice players acknowledge it. Protoss got screwed because Terran players are overwhelmingly free styling it (laughs). Protoss sucks too much. Out of a Terran buff or a Protoss nerf, only one is supposed to occur at a time but it’s so difficult since they both occurred. It’s difficult to win unless you go blink stalker, but Terran players who know how to block it block it really well.
I don’t think I can because Terran is so OP. That’s how much confidence I am lacking. But I am relieved since there’s only one Terran player.
It will be difficult for PartinG since he’s Protoss (laughs).
Even before the patch took place, Maru himself stated that Terran was doable. Now that the patch is here, just imagine how much stronger he got.
this is essentially everything that Rain said that is terran related. That's like half the interview T_T I haven't been following patches and such but is it really that bad? IEM had a protoss winner and it seems that protoss players are doing well as a whole so what's with the complaining? This isn't like Rain from what I recall >.> Aside from that, thanks Seeker!
On March 20 2014 15:49 forsooth wrote: Rain turning it up to maximum crybabby
I thought Rain was a terran for a second there. Because we all know that only terrans are lazy and will not try new things but protoss will also work hard and figure things out...
On March 20 2014 15:49 forsooth wrote: Rain turning it up to maximum crybabby
I thought Rain was a terran for a second there. Because we all know that only terrans are lazy and will not try new things but protoss will also work hard and figure things out...
Yes, because there's so much to experiment with if half your tech tree is useless.
BL/Infestor levels? Seriously? Just after a tournament that ended with PvP finals, already after the patch? I tbought Rain to be better than that. Grow a spine man.
Rain is just trying to be the new TaeJa guys. He's entering the wrong tournaments though. Needs to be targeting those $10k first places instead of GSLs if he's going to be like this.
On March 20 2014 17:46 Shellshock wrote: Rain is just trying to be the new TaeJa guys. He's entering the wrong tournaments though. Needs to be targeting those $10k first places instead of GSLs if he's going to be like this.
He doesn't want to protoss to be nerfed. And it is working. Blizzard is not nerfing blink allin.
I am one of the terran that rant about protoss early game a lot and I must admit rain might be right about mines being OP.
The problem of TvP was and is still early game shenanigans from protoss. buffed WM do nothing to counter this. Blink avoid mines, oracles was already oneshoted by mines.
What buff to WM does is just strengthen mid game of terran which is plainly wrong as Terran is already dominating this part of the game.
Now what might happen is that Protoss will allin every game from now on vs terran like we saw in PvZ with the infamous soul train vs Blord infestors at the end of wol. IN the near future it might be really hard for protoss to win macro games so allins might be the only option. Blink allin is very close to the soul train because even scouted it's really tough to defend.
The fact that DK don't want to adress directly early game problem has made the balance team compensate the ridiculous early game advantage from protoss to unjustified buffs to terran for mid and late game.
On March 20 2014 18:11 klup wrote: Actually he might be right.
I am one of the terran that rant about protoss early game a lot and I must admit rain might be right about mines being OP.
The problem of TvP was and is still early game shenanigans from protoss. buffed WM do nothing to counter this. Blink avoid mines, oracles was already oneshoted by mines.
What buff to WM does is just strengthen mid game of terran which is plainly wrong as Terran is already dominating this part of the game.
Now what might happen is that Protoss will allin every game from now on vs terran like we saw in PvZ with the infamous soul train vs Blord infestors at the end of wol. IN the near future it might be really hard for protoss to win macro games so allins might be the only option. Blink allin is very close to the soul train because even scouted it's really tough to defend.
The fact that DK don't want to adress directly early game problem has made the balance team compensate the ridiculous early game advantage from protoss to unjustified buffs to terran for mid and late game.
I think it really depends. I don't think blink all-in is undefendable. The problem is that you can also over defend very easily and then get contained which puts the terran way too behind to do anything in the mid game which means you are then facing double AoE from P.
The problem with blink all-in with MsC has always been that the protoss can SEE exactly how the terran is defending. Not enough defense and they just warp in stalkers and blink in. Too much defense (late medivacs) and they just do a soft contain and take their third (or quick storm or both) and they are way ahead.
By giving the terran a stronger thread mid game, it makes them be able to spend more on early defense without getting way behind.
feel like he is right about the blink all in. it's still very strong, but terran players are definitely getting better at defending it thanks to polt. at iem katowice he actually defended 3 out of 4 blink all ins with his reaper expand into 3 rax build and at iem cologne he did great against it as well. sadly it was kinda overlooked by most people due to the taeja/sos series afterwards.
On March 20 2014 18:50 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: feel like he is right about the blink all in. it's still very strong, but terran players are definitely getting better at defending it thanks to polt. at iem katowice he actually defended 3 out of 4 blink all ins with his reaper expand into 3 rax build and at iem cologne he did great against it as well. sadly it was kinda overlooked by most people due to the taeja/sos series afterwards.
2 base blink had 80% success rate at IEM.
But he is right about one thing. When both players go into macro game and protoss doesn't use their aggressive builds, matchup looks much more even. Best example is Rain's PL game against Flash where it was like they had "a gentleman's agreement" not to cheese or all in each other.
But that is hardly an evidence that protoss is forced into early game aggression if they want to have the chance in a macro game. Nothing really changed in the unit compositions since WoL and protoss always had strong late game...
On March 20 2014 18:50 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: feel like he is right about the blink all in. it's still very strong, but terran players are definitely getting better at defending it thanks to polt. at iem katowice he actually defended 3 out of 4 blink all ins with his reaper expand into 3 rax build and at iem cologne he did great against it as well. sadly it was kinda overlooked by most people due to the taeja/sos series afterwards.
2 base blink had 80% success rate at IEM.
But he is right about one thing. When both players go into macro game and protoss doesn't use their aggressive builds, matchup looks much more even. Best example is Rain's PL game against Flash where it was like they had "a gentleman's agreement" not to cheese or all in each other.
But that is hardly an evidence that protoss is forced into early game aggression if they want to have the chance in a macro game. Nothing really changed in the unit compositions since WoL and protoss always had strong late game...
the widow mine has been added to the composition of terrans recently which is a huge change. However seing Rain vs Flash game I didn't feel that terran was that OP and honestly Flash won more because of a sick engagment than anything else. The game seemed very close.
The problem is that blizzard has no simple solution to blink allin because it is too hard to fix simply. If you nerf Mscore people will use sentry hallucination to blink up and you can't think about nerfing both Msc and sentry it makes no sense. You can't buff either terran defenses as bunker rush would be OP.
So OP. Like it is more OP than Infesters BL..... I think it definitely take times for Protoss players to adjust the widow mine play. It took awhile for zerg players to play against mines.
Rains world: Heart of the mines - Rise of the patch Terrans The imbalance in the game right now is reaching BL/Infestor-levels. Terran is taking over the ladder.
Meanwhile in another world: 7/8 participants in the major finals 2014 being Protoss. Protoss wins every major tournament played 2014. 3 Terrans makes into GSL Code S.
On March 20 2014 20:01 bhfberserk wrote: So OP. Like it is more OP than Infesters BL..... I think it definitely take times for Protoss players to adjust the widow mine play. It took awhile for zerg players to play against mines.
You won't dare suggest that protoss use split on their deathball don't you? imagine the shock among them, oh god I don't even want to think about this it would be the end for them.
On March 20 2014 20:01 bhfberserk wrote: So OP. Like it is more OP than Infesters BL..... I think it definitely take times for Protoss players to adjust the widow mine play. It took awhile for zerg players to play against mines.
You won't dare suggest that protoss use split on their deathball don't you? imagine the shock among them, oh god I don't even want to think about this it would be the end for them.
the horror!
But honestly, come on.
I understand that Widow Mines can now punish Protoss compositions like Zealot/Archon from attacking unattended across the battle while Terran struggles to micro back, but the issue lies in parity: Chargelots and Archons reward a-moving too much without a way for Terran to counter the composition because these units serve as a meatshield too well when upgraded.
This is the exact same thing that Zerg had to learn to fight against at the beginning of the expansion when Widow Mines were introduced, and eventually they learned to overcome it. The matchup as a whole benefited because it added more tension, and neither side could a-move the other anymore.
As far as strategy goes, Protoss have been able to play with extreme greed due to powerful early game Protoss options via their ability to scout, cheese, timing attack and hidden tech. This is a matter of Protoss now needing to dial back their greed and account for Widow Mines with a Robo instead of expecting to tech, upgrade and keep map control off of minimal investment, one gateway and a mothership core.
On March 20 2014 20:08 Glorfindel! wrote: Rains world: Heart of the mines - Rise of the patch Terrans The imbalance in the game right now is reaching BL/Infestor-levels. Terran is taking over the ladder.
Meanwhile in another world: 7/8 participants in the major finals 2014 being Protoss. Protoss wins every major tournament played 2014. 3 Terrans makes into GSL Code S.
All of those happened before the last patch except the last IEM which had 2 Terrans at the semi-finals. He admits that Blink all-ins are strong, but beyond early pressure Protoss is weaker than Terran. Zealot HT openings are now very weak because of the recent patches, and they just recently got more popular due to the weakness of Colossi opening to SCV pulls. I understand his logic, although it does seem he is overreacting a bit, Terran might have a small advantage in the mid and lategame, but he makes it sound like PvT is impossible if you don't go Blink.
On March 20 2014 20:08 Glorfindel! wrote: Rains world: Heart of the mines - Rise of the patch Terrans The imbalance in the game right now is reaching BL/Infestor-levels. Terran is taking over the ladder.
Meanwhile in another world: 7/8 participants in the major finals 2014 being Protoss. Protoss wins every major tournament played 2014. 3 Terrans makes into GSL Code S.
All of those happened before the last patch except the last IEM which had 2 Terrans at the semi-finals. He admits that Blink all-ins are strong, but beyond early pressure Protoss is weaker than Terran. Zealot HT openings are now very weak because of the recent patches, and they just recently got more popular due to the weakness of Colossi opening to SCV pulls. I understand his logic, although it does seem he is overreacting a bit, Terran might have a small advantage in the mid and lategame, but he makes it sound like PvT is impossible if you don't go Blink.
Its still quite daring calling Terran as OP as BL-Infestor when the final of the 100K-event was a PvP... O.o
However much the patch have changed - just stating that the imbalance in BL-Infestor-levels when TvP has been in the level it has been during the last MONTHS with all included that happends before the patch is quite... strong talking
Terran gets a buff* on their mines and MSC has it visions reduced (just to make it a bit more balanced from being the overall best unit in the game - not even close) will probably not makeTerran go from actually being the worst race in the history of Starcraft 2 (during the last months) to actually reach BL-Infestor-level imblanace. Its not like the mines has free Nukes.
For me as a Terran player, I take that as quite a strong insult and I dare to say I wont support anything that has do to with Rain anymore
Edit: I gladly take bets btw on signatures in our post regarding if Terran will win as many tournaments as Zerg did during the Infestor-era, or just how many non-korean Terrans that will beat Korean players on major tournaments. Just make some suggestions, I am sure I will accept
Like: "We will have 3 different foreigner Terrans taking out Korean players in these major tournaments - if so I change my signature to "...."
On March 20 2014 15:28 Shellshock wrote: lol Rain's interview is kind of funny. I wonder if he would rather avoid Maru in the final since he claims Terran is so good or hope for a chance at revenge from OSL last year?
Everyone right now should be afraid of Maru, rightfully so I think. No misguided Protoss opinion will change that.
Still, it's funny to read when Protoss is trying to convince everyone they are underpowered, the under-dog. *smiles*
On March 20 2014 20:01 bhfberserk wrote: So OP. Like it is more OP than Infesters BL..... I think it definitely take times for Protoss players to adjust the widow mine play. It took awhile for zerg players to play against mines.
You won't dare suggest that protoss use split on their deathball don't you? imagine the shock among them, oh god I don't even want to think about this it would be the end for them.
the horror!
But honestly, come on.
I understand that Widow Mines can now punish Protoss compositions like Zealot/Archon from attacking unattended across the battle while Terran struggles to micro back, but the issue lies in parity: Chargelots and Archons reward a-moving too much without a way for Terran to counter the composition because these units serve as a meatshield too well when upgraded.
This is the exact same thing that Zerg had to learn to fight against at the beginning of the expansion when Widow Mines were introduced, and eventually they learned to overcome it. The matchup as a whole benefited because it added more tension, and neither side could a-move the other anymore.
As far as strategy goes, Protoss have been able to play with extreme greed due to powerful early game Protoss options via their ability to scout, cheese, timing attack and hidden tech. This is a matter of Protoss now needing to dial back their greed and account for Widow Mines with a Robo instead of expecting to tech, upgrade and keep map control off of minimal investment, one gateway and a mothership core.
I think it's hard for protoss to accept that they might have to think before a-moving. I mean, i fully understand the fact that protoss being less mobile than terran and zerg must necessarily mean that they are more powerful.
However, i don't like at all the fact that they can straight up a-move and just do the smallest amount of micro. I am glad WM finally force protoss to micro their engagements.
"And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor level." Even without widow mines Terran is overpowered to the point of Bl/infestor? Rain is a good player, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
On March 20 2014 10:54 Mahanaim wrote: Rain: inb4 GomTvT returning
:D
Good, TvT is still far more entertaining than PvP :D
I think Rain is a little butt-hurt that Flash's Ghost Timing wrecked him earlier this week in Proleague. That may have carried over to his attitude of Terran is Imba.
i wouldnt have imagined terran being as ridiculous as Rain reckons after the nerf, but then again, korean terrans are different from any other terrans lol, so i can imagine that the top 10 slots are taken by them after breaking out of a weak patch!
On March 20 2014 21:09 royalroadweed wrote: "And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor level." Even without widow mines Terran is overpowered to the point of Bl/infestor? Rain is a good player, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Yep do you think that Rain just reached Avilo level of complain with this phrase? He is basically saying that the buff was unnecessary and so must be removed but also after that we should nerf terrans in some way because they are still OP.
It seems like a common complain of a player that just lost couple of games on ladder and create a thread saying that X race is OP impossible to win. Very childish from a Korean progammer.
Well Rain is exagarating a lot... I think he is a bit scared that PvT's macro game becomes too hard because he is an exclusively macro player. And also I think he is still affected by his loss against Flash. But his loss had nothing to do with widow mines, it was more due to him caught unprepared by the ghost timing push of Flash.
In any cases, I am very surprised by his interview. At least he says what he thinks and that's refreshing.
Given Protoss situation across the world, saying T is op is quite sad from Rain, he'd better review his passive playstyle instead of crying like a baby.
Zest mentioned First (former KT BW player, former SC2 IM player) helped him but is on another team? What does that mean? Has First joined a team? Liquipedia still says he's teamless though.
I have to say I've seen T becoming insanely good with the widow mine style in TvP now with the T buff + P nerf. Blizzard really likes to take drastic actions and IMO it's very unhealthy when there are professionals depending on it, the balance of the game shouldn't be switched so drastically. Feels like P has been hit with a heavy double whammy, I've gotta say I agree with Rain and think Maru is the favourite now (unless Zest can stop him).
P.S. of course I hope Rain is just trolling and wins the whole thing, or loses to Parting/soO in the final is also acceptable.
On March 20 2014 22:22 Khai wrote: Zest mentioned First (former KT BW player, former SC2 IM player) helped him but is on another team? What does that mean? Has First joined a team? Liquipedia still says he's teamless though.
I think Rain knows more about balance than either of you ^.^ it's so funny how low-leaguers sit here and say that Rain is whiny and that you know better.
ps. the fact that there are so many protosses in GSL etc is because it happened before the patch, just wait and see (as Rain says)
i think rain made a point. at least when the maps are changed in april and we get less friendly blink maps we will see how it works out when we see more macrogames.
On March 20 2014 22:27 sd_andeh wrote: I think Rain knows more about balance than either of you ^.^ it's so funny how low-leaguers sit here and say that Rain is whiny and that you know better.
ps. the fact that there are so many protosses in GSL etc is because it happened before the patch, just wait and see (as Rain says)
He is not the first and not the last pro gamer to be very whiny. As someone whose career depends on it, a professional can be very biased and attached to his race. Even if he were right and the change went too far, it is way too early to diagnose a similarity towards the almost 1-year domination by BL+infestor. Especially considering that the only tournament that was played after the patch had a PvP final. So yeah, there are objective reasons why an unbiased observer would correctly call Rain's interview whining, even if he is not at his level of play and even if he might be proven right given time.
I was feeling really bad because Protoss vs Terran is my worst matchup by a long shot(high master on EU), but I feel better knowing the best protoss players in the world are also having trouble vs terran.
Wtf why are Protoss players so handsome? I don't know, Terran players look more cute to me, like TY and MarineKing, while Zerg players look badass as hell, like Soulkey, Jaedong and DRG.
On March 20 2014 15:52 Qwerty85 wrote: Just goes to show that even the best and most hard working pro gamers can be biased.
Really? You think playing 10h a day as one race all year long gives you bias toward this race? Some epic wizard knowledge that you have here.
Everyone is biased, the progamers more than all, and it's perfectly normal. I'm pretty sure that in the mind of the people who use "biased" as a derogative term, "unbiased" means "agreeing with me", and "biased" means "disagreeing with me".
Maybe the buffs and nerfs were too much, but rain is complaining pretty hard after a couple of weeks (maybe longer can't remember).
10 Terrans in top 18? Pretty sure there have been 10 Protoss in top 18 for a long time. They should wait a month or so and see how she plays. Readjust if necessary.
On March 20 2014 22:22 Khai wrote: Zest mentioned First (former KT BW player, former SC2 IM player) helped him but is on another team? What does that mean? Has First joined a team? Liquipedia still says he's teamless though.
I have to say I've seen T becoming insanely good with the widow mine style in TvP now with the T buff + P nerf. Blizzard really likes to take drastic actions and IMO it's very unhealthy when there are professionals depending on it, the balance of the game shouldn't be switched so drastically. Feels like P has been hit with a heavy double whammy, I've gotta say I agree with Rain and think Maru is the favourite now (unless Zest can stop him).
P.S. of course I hope Rain is just trolling and wins the whole thing, or loses to Parting/soO in the final is also acceptable.
Well, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone accuse Blizzard of THAT lol
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
People are hating on Rain because Rain is saying that even without the WM buff terran was like broodlord/infestor dominant. That statement just doesn't hold up at all to what we're seeing in the results.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
People are hating on Rain because Rain is saying that even without the WM buff terran was like broodlord/infestor dominant. That statement just doesn't hold up at all to what we're seeing in the results.
If Flash actually did go 68-2 vs top Protosses then that does sound like a problem. It must get pretty sickening to have Protoss OP be some kind of meme and everyone on forums say Terran is shit when you feel if anything it is the other way around, that's probably why Rain is exaggerating. Really though Blizzard shouldn't do anything, progamers have shown time and time again that balance is a see-saw, the only exception being Infestor BL which was very clearly completely broken.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
Not entirely unexpected if he practiced with b-teamers.
He wouldn't practice with B-teamers every game if he wanted good practice, especially when he has Zest and Stats in the house and is probably friends with other very good Protosses.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
People are hating on Rain because Rain is saying that even without the WM buff terran was like broodlord/infestor dominant. That statement just doesn't hold up at all to what we're seeing in the results.
If Flash actually did go 68-2 vs top Protosses then that does sound like a problem. It must get pretty sickening to have Protoss OP be some kind of meme and everyone on forums say Terran is shit when you feel if anything it is the other way around, that's probably why Rain is exaggerating. Really though Blizzard shouldn't do anything, progamers have shown time and time again that balance is a see-saw, the only exception being Infestor BL which was very clearly completely broken.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
Not entirely unexpected if he practiced with b-teamers.
He wouldn't practice with B-teamers every game if he wanted good practice, especially when he has Zest and Stats in the house and is probably friends with other very good Protosses.
But he went 68-2 after the patch. We don't know yet if terran will really dominate protoss due to this patch, we'll see in the next few weeks/months I suppose. Progamers (of all 3 races) like to exaggerate though.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
He is exaggerating because he wants to avoid a protoss nerf. Blizzard most likely asked protosses like him for feedback. And complaining about practice games that no one saw is just silly. The circumstances for the prctice games are unclear. Pretty sure Flash can not beat blink all in 68-2.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
People are hating on Rain because Rain is saying that even without the WM buff terran was like broodlord/infestor dominant. That statement just doesn't hold up at all to what we're seeing in the results.
If Flash actually did go 68-2 vs top Protosses then that does sound like a problem. It must get pretty sickening to have Protoss OP be some kind of meme and everyone on forums say Terran is shit when you feel if anything it is the other way around, that's probably why Rain is exaggerating. Really though Blizzard shouldn't do anything, progamers have shown time and time again that balance is a see-saw, the only exception being Infestor BL which was very clearly completely broken.
On March 20 2014 23:09 kmh wrote:
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
Not entirely unexpected if he practiced with b-teamers.
He wouldn't practice with B-teamers every game if he wanted good practice, especially when he has Zest and Stats in the house and is probably friends with other very good Protosses.
But he went 68-2 after the patch. We don't know yet if terran will really dominate protoss due to this patch, we'll see in the next few weeks/months I suppose. Progamers (of all 3 races) like to exaggerate though.
Q: Is Protoss in a dominant position?
Flash: To be honest, it is at the moment. But Protoss is not invincible. I believe I will get better and I am practicing hard. In the practice, I can win Protoss often. Flash on balance, David Kim etc.
This is taken from Flash's interview on balance before the patch was live. So both pre and post patch, Flash said he is winning a lot against protoss in practice... Maybe that hard work finally paid off for Flash and he won because he played better and not because terran in TvP is the new BL-INF?
Every patch changes the meta game a bit. When they were not aggressive, protoss players were very greedy with their openings and teched off just a few units. 9.40 min storm is/was not uncommon at all. I am not surprised at all that protoss have problems against something they never encountered before. Also, I am surprised Rain is so focused on TvP since there are good chances he won't even play a terran player in GSL at all.
Most of his interview was about terran and how OP the race has become.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals.
I'm sorry, but this is where reality collides with bias once more. Every major tournament in 2014 has been won by protoss. 7 out of 8 finalists have been protoss. Protoss is still doing just fine in PL, just because they don't have 70% win rates anymore doesn't mean they're doing poorly.
Imagine if DRG, at the height of BL/infestor, had come out and said that zerg late game was terrible and T and P were too strong. No matter how skilled and respected DRG was at the time, everyone who had any ability to observe and analyze reality would reach the same conclusion; that's fucking crazy. What Rain just said is the exact same thing, a statement that is completely at odds with almost everything we see in observing reality.
We can argue the finer points of blink all ins, maps, immortal all ins etc. But claiming protoss is in a bad spot right now is fucking insane.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals.
And these Kespa protosses got to those tournaments by beating Kespa Terrans in qualifiers... Protoss dominated the IEM KR qualifiers... And what about Code S... There is a backlash on Protoss players because the Protoss race has become as dominate as Terrans were in the GOMTvT era and the Lings of Liberty era.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals.
And these Kespa protosses got to those tournaments by beating Kespa Terrans in qualifiers... Protoss dominated the IEM KR qualifiers... And what about Code S... There is a backlash on Protoss players because the Protoss race has become as dominate as Terrans were in the GOMTvT era and the Lings of Liberty era.
IEM qualifiers wasn't domination. It was unfortunate only 2 players could make it through because there is so much talent in Korea. In the Korean part it was 2 Protoss (Rain and Classic), 1 Terran (Cure) and 1 Zerg (Curious), hardly domination. Comparing Protoss to Infestor/BL is just as silly as comparing Terran to it.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
The realm of reality is also the place where we read what people are saying. For example, when Rain comes in and says "if you don't blink all-in you're in deep shit PvT", you don't point to tournaments where people blink all-ined their way to victory as a proof that he's wrong.
It's possible that he's wrong, that people need time to adapt. I've been advocating for a while that the only balanced state we could reach in this game is when every race thinks every other race is OP, and I still don't know for sure that you can't open templar first with the new mines. But if you're gonna say he's an idiot, at least do it based on the things he wrote, not based on the things you assumed.
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<.
It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP.
Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all.
And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant.
We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well.
The realm of reality is also the place where we read what people are saying. For example, when Rain comes in and says "if you don't blink all-in you're in deep shit PvT", you don't point to tournaments where people blink all-ined their way to victory as a proof that he's wrong.
It's possible that he's wrong, that people need time to adapt. I've been advocating for a while that the only balanced state we could reach in this game is when every race thinks every other race is OP, and I still don't know for sure that you can't open templar first with the new mines. But if you're gonna say he's an idiot, at least do it based on the things he wrote, not based on the things you assumed.
I don't think or claim that Rain is an idiot at all. I think that statement was incredibly silly and divorced from reality. And I've seen nothing to suggest that protoss are somehow at a disadvantage in the late game against terran.
Yeah, protoss actually has to micro zealots against mines now, like zerg has been doing for all of HotS. I'm sure a player of Rain's caliber will pick up on it rather quickly.
On March 20 2014 14:51 SAFenix wrote: I cannot tell if Rain's QQ about Terran is serious or trolling...
no, its what alot people just say just because some "players" on lower levels cry about protoss imba doesnt change fact that i think flash said in train he has an 98% winratio in tvp ^^ thats huge isnt it ? ^^
just wait guys and you will see it, but no instacry for buffs and nerfs is all you do all day sadworld
Oh just noticed Zest thanked first and someone said he's on the team Bounty Hunters trying to qualify for atc. Will be interesting to see him play again. Been a while
On March 21 2014 03:59 Shellshock wrote: Oh just noticed Zest thanked first and someone said he's on the team Bounty Hunters trying to qualify for atc. Will be interesting to see him play again. Been a while
First was on KT Rolster back when he was known as Anyppi. I think that's what Zest is talking about.
On March 21 2014 03:12 Musicus wrote: Like BL/Infestor times... at least let Terran win one tournament before complaining, wtf Rain.
A race being good and a race being successful are two different things. Terran can be OP even if Terran doesn't win tournaments, although that actually being true in this case seems somewhat unlikely.
Terran may be in a better spot now in the upper layers of the ladder, but to say that they're imbalanced right now seems really stupid. There has been a patch, Protoss will adapt and I'm pretty sure we'll still see the truly good Protoss players far in tourneys, and maybe this time no one will only talk about how adept they are at being Protosses.
I would not take his comments all that seriously as Korean programers have a tradition of calling "imba!" at the smallest opportunity. It was always going to take a while for the patch to distill, and we will only start to see its full effects in PvT over the next season. For that reason, whatever happens, I hope Blizzard stay the fuck out of the game for the next 3 months or more.
[dream] Of course, if there really is a problem, maybe we'll finally get that Stalker buff and Colo nerf I have been wanting since WOL... [/dream]
On March 21 2014 05:05 [PkF] Wire wrote: Terran may be in a better spot now in the upper layers of the ladder, but to say that they're imbalanced right now seems really stupid. There has been a patch, Protoss will adapt and I'm pretty sure we'll still see the truly good Protoss players far in tourneys, and maybe this time no one will only talk about how adept they are at being Protosses.
we also did see the truly good terran players far in tournaments, even winning, and still they cried their hearts out and finished in nerfs/Buffs ... why so wrong if p do same ? because its never done before ? its time for protoss to jump on this zerg/terran whinetrain, we're pretty late to that party but we can do as well too
It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
On March 21 2014 05:50 Drake wrote: that zest thinking he can win 3-0 before game, vs mister 200k is just a joke lol seems sos did to much party after his win xD
I mean...$O$ pretty much had to play his matches immediately after he flew back from Poland. That's a ridiculous amount of jet lag to deal with
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote:Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
That would be cool and already somewhat happens as with Red Bull and Shoutcraft too, I think. But, I meant as part of the regular map pool and regular tournament play, so that players have time to practice and develop strategies for the maps.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
That would be cool and already somewhat happens as with Red Bull and Shoutcraft too, I think. But, I meant as part of the regular map pool and regular tournament play, so that players have time to practice and develop strategies for the maps.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
There is a replay pack for it somewhere that has a shit ton of games. Protoss all-ins are really good when nobody knows the maps properly though.
Those are still pretty much the same kinds of maps as we get now, though.
Semi-island maps, lava maps, mains with 2 ramps, collapsible rocks at natural are pretty crazy. I don't think you can go much further without making things too different.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: It is in the maps guys, come on we already stated this a thousand times. Blink all-ins are good on almost all current tournament maps. Instead of fixing the maps we nerf a one race and buff another. Past season there was hardly any balance whine because the win/rates were kind of ok. Pre-patch everyone is like "Protoss OPPP", then we nerf P and buff T to balance out the whine. Next week the strong Blink maps are gone and we get maps with huge open-airspace and Terran will wreck protoss like never before...
I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
Terran just made their day a whole lot more frustrating. I will be happy all-inning all of you on ladder.
GLGL
We don't want more restrictions on maps though, we want all different kinds of maps to be balanced.
Yes. That said, we don't know what the restrictions are going to be. If it is only restrictions on blink-able space into the main, that does not affect maps in terms of other features. I do hope it is nothing major though, because, if so, that runs counter to DK's statements that Blizzard are looking to actively tweak the map pool with greater variety in 2014.
It may also be that maps like Yeonsu are removed only for the next season, but will re-appear later in the year when Terrans have gotten used to their new toys and Blink all-ins are no longer as prevalent. I certainly hope so. I've been wanting greater map variety for a while now, and I will be very disappointed if we just have homogenous maps like we used to in WOL.
I kind of wish a few tournaments would just say "fuck it" and try a map pool that completely breaks all convention. I would be really interested to see what kind of strategies progamers come up with on maps like that.
There is a replay pack for it somewhere that has a shit ton of games. Protoss all-ins are really good when nobody knows the maps properly though.
Those are still pretty much the same kinds of maps as we get now, though.
Semi-island maps, lava maps, mains with 2 ramps, collapsible rocks at natural are pretty crazy. I don't think you can go much further without making things too different.
Right, but that's what I want. Something completely and utterly different, thrown at the progamers and saying "Here, figure stuff out"
On March 21 2014 05:50 Drake wrote: that zest thinking he can win 3-0 before game, vs mister 200k is just a joke lol seems sos did to much party after his win xD
I mean...$O$ pretty much had to play his matches immediately after he flew back from Poland. That's a ridiculous amount of jet lag to deal with
Still no credit to my boy wooki.. there won't be any excuses after he kills rain.
On March 21 2014 05:52 Taronar wrote: I think the widowmine change was too strong. Zealots are supposed to be tanked and kited, not oneshot by mines. *you can splitlawl* yes, lik you can with unstimmed Marine/Marauder. Good luck with that.
In the other news. Protoss all-ins are now way more attractive, which leads to more all-ins and fewer 200/200 fights. Is that what we really want? I don't think so.
I find this notion that protoss players are forced into all ins because they can't keep up with terran in a macro game hilarious. Where is any kind of evidence on that?
Compared to WoL, which basically had same unit composition as Hots, nothing really changed except protoss is safer in the early game due to MSC and stargate, which was not viable in WoL is now viable in Hots?
The reason you see so many 2 base blink timings is because they are a 80% success rate strat. When you are in a tournament, you play to win. Protoss players use strats that give them greatest chances of winning.
If TvP macro game was for example perfect 50:50 split and 2 base blink is 80:20 split, which route would you choose?
That doesn't mean at all that protoss is unable to play macro and that they are forced into all-ining terran because of it.
As soon as I saw the patch notes with the buffed widowmines, I knew that if zealots started dying to them there would be hilarious whine. Rain needs to try pushing down a ramp with m/l/b vs pre split marines, and 5+ pre nerfed widowmines before complaining really, cause frankly the level of micro required is a joke.
SoO has a great mentality and a sense of humour. He doesn't blame Yeonsu or Protoss, just his misread of Parting's strategy and his mistakes. I also appreciate his dry humour with regard to whine = buff and and his trolling in wanting auto-inject.
It'll be difficult for me to back him against P if he makes the final, but I wouldn't be too fussed if he did win it all.
There's a possibility of soO making it to the finals twice in a row, there's also a chance of a T1 teamkill in the finals. When was the last time either of these happened?
soO's a pretty funny guy. This is his 2nd time in a row in which he's made it to the semifinals and I still think people vastly underrate him.
Oh, I just saw this now! Nice interviews, thanks for the hard work Seeker ^_^ Also that is a pretty baller picture of Life, that Rain QQ was pretty funny :D
I had a lot of respect for Rain, but equating Terran play currently to a build like BL-Corrupter-Infestor? If Rain was at an event I was going to I would try to point and laugh loudly at him for being such a fucking baby. Completely nonsensical comparison.
Always good to hear all the SKT players treating each other well after all these teamkills haha. Hoping for an SKT player to lift this trophy to make it up for all the fallen (especially teamkilled) teammates!
Called it, mines should never have gotten buff, its stupid how many units they 1 shot and the +extra damage vs shields is just a broken mechanic, worse idea then the warhound.
Thx for the interviews, looking forward to the next games.
Going off auto injects from zoO, what if they added auto injects but it cost more energy on autocast(35 energy) instead of 25 so there's a balance to it.