In the wake of Polt and Hydra's departure, we were left with two outcomes for the WCS scene. It could either devolve into chaos, with multiple players winning events and ceaseless turmoil, or reshape around a central force; a player undoubtedly good enough to rise to the mantle of Polt and Hydra's reign—perhaps even good enough to surpass their success. Certain players seemed more likely to fit the mold than others. ShoWTimE, being the only foreigner to win a WCS event and having beat ByuN at BlizzCon, was the leading candidate; but where is he now? Nerchio was a candidate as well, having the most consistency of all foreigners the year prior and flaunting an utterly incredible winrate. He even made the finals of WCS Austin, and all looked prepared for a coronation - but he lost, in an admittedly close set against Neeb.
"The ability to become great at a moment's notice colored Neeb's entire year."
Neeb's 2017 might seem easy to predict; after all, he was by far the best foreigner coming into Blizzcon last year, and he even took home a trophy at KeSPA Cup, which is probably worth more than any individual WCS victory. But 2017 has been by no means an easy road for him. He disappointed hard at Katowice, racking up a 1-8 record against Korean opposition (his sole win against jjakji) and made it out of groups at WCS Austin by the skin of his teeth. If he had lost to TLO then, all of this might never have happened. The crown of Austin would've gone to SpeCial (then MajOr), or ShoWTimE, or Nerchio—someone else with a stronger claim. But TLO didn't win. Neither did ShoWTimE, in their five-game set, or SpeCial, who saw himself up 2-1 on the verge of his first ever finals. Even the finals against Nerchio started off with Neeb facing a defecit before he rattled off three wins in a row.
That ability to become great at a moment's notice colored Neeb's entire year. He has, for the entire of Legacy of the Void, had the ability to shine regardless of whether things look dim or not. Look back to his breakout, beating Polt in a 5-game series to qualify for WCS Winter. There was no calm before the storm, nor was there a reign of tyranny after. He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin, and then so many more times throughout that year until he finally peaked to win KeSPA Cup. This ethereal nature followed Neeb to Jönköping, where he once more narrowly avoided early elimination to TLO and then...won. It didn't matter that he had lost to PtitDrogo and nearly to TLO in the group stage. He dominated SortOf and Kelazhur, broke MajOr's heart again, and eliminated the golden child Serral in the finals. Two in a row. From the chaos and sweat and blood of WCS came order, from the very source of disorder who had so thoroughly ruptured everything the year prior. Neeb had reigned.
Winrate
67.48% vs. Terran 74.16% vs. Protoss 73.47% vs. Zerg
Rank
Circuit Standings 1
WCS Points
10350
Then, like the wind, he was gone; the dominant, soul-crushing Neeb was hardly present at WCS Valencia, nor was it present at the GSL Qualifiers which saw him lose multiple times to Hurricane, nor was it truly present at GSL vs the World; he was still an elite player, but he wasn't the king. His kingdom had once more fallen into chaos, with Elazer and Snute sparring while others such as SpeCial and Serral hung at their heels. But none of that mattered. Neeb as a player is not disturbed by the environment, or by the stakes, or seemingly by anything at all; he does not dream of championships, nor does he strive to be the greatest. His unrelentingly cold veins are born from a ruthless desire, not to win, but to avoid loss. As long as he wins, as long as he can keep the bitter taste of defeat away from his lips for another collection of moments, all is right in his world.
So in hindsight, it wasn't particularly surprising to see Neeb return at top form during Dreamhack Montreal; but what was surprising was the sheer dominance in which he did it. He seemed like a parent returning home to his unruly kids, setting them in order, reminding them of the one universal truth: Neeb is the greatest foreigner in the scene currently. It was one of the most dominant runs we've ever seen from a foreigner, in fact, the type of domestic tyranny greats such as NaNiwa or Stephano never quite clutched, for all of their trophies and success against Korea. There was not a moment, not even a milisecond, during the entire tournament where Neeb's tournament life was on the line, where it felt legitimately unsure of whether he was going to win the next series or not. It was all so certain. Like watching a prophecy unfold. Yet, did any of it truly matter? What is a WCS trophy to someone who has ascended beyond it? What is domestic success if it doesn't lead to international greatness? What is a win, if not for an evasion of defeat- why would a win matter if the defeat following tastes so much worse?
Last year, Neeb never had this. He never had domestic success, let alone dominance. He seemed to be destined to be a player such as Snute, forever looking from the outside among his peers, and yet always so much greater when it came to play against Korea. But that is no longer the case for Neeb. West of Korea, he no longer has any peers; players such as Serral, and Nerchio, and ShoWTimE, and Elazer, and plenty more, might be great. They might play phenomenal games. They might take sets off of Neeb. But Neeb's career is no longer going to be determined by how he plays against the ShoWTimEs of the world. It's going to be defined by what happens at Anaheim, and all the Global Finals to come, where Neeb acts as the sword in the darkness; the bastion of hope for a foreign scene which has lacked a champion to rally around ever since the retirement of NaNiwa. It may not be his desire. It may not be what he dreamed of. It may not be what he expected when he first changed races to Protoss, so many moons ago.
Aboe soO I'd say yes. Above herO absolutely no. Above TY? May be due to TY's recent form. Although Neeb almost won TY in GSL vs the world (3-2 series there), so can definitely be, but only just because TY didn't do that well recently.
I still predict 2 foreigners in the RO8, and Neeb will probably one of them. So according to this power rank if he makes it he'll be a dark horse.
Will be interesting to see how he fairs, if he made it to the finals that really would be an incredible story. As much as I do wish I could like Neeb I just wish he had a little more personality, that's part of the reason the foreign scene flocked behind Stephano and Naniwa so much, they had the confidence and cockiness we all love to see. Either way he is a brilliant and dominant player and I'm really looking forward to seeing his matches and how he fairs up.
On October 18 2017 23:41 Synchronize` wrote: Will be interesting to see how he fairs, if he made it to the finals that really would be an incredible story. As much as I do wish I could like Neeb I just wish he had a little more personality, that's part of the reason the foreign scene flocked behind Stephano and Naniwa so much, they had the confidence and cockiness we all love to see. Either way he is a brilliant and dominant player and I'm really looking forward to seeing his matches and how he fairs up.
That and the fact that they confronted offline the best Koreans on a regular basis. Neeb on an another hand...
On October 18 2017 23:41 Synchronize` wrote: Will be interesting to see how he fairs, if he made it to the finals that really would be an incredible story. As much as I do wish I could like Neeb I just wish he had a little more personality, that's part of the reason the foreign scene flocked behind Stephano and Naniwa so much, they had the confidence and cockiness we all love to see. Either way he is a brilliant and dominant player and I'm really looking forward to seeing his matches and how he fairs up.
I don't love to see cockiness and much prefer Neeb to Stephano and Naniwa.
On October 18 2017 23:41 Synchronize` wrote: Will be interesting to see how he fairs, if he made it to the finals that really would be an incredible story. As much as I do wish I could like Neeb I just wish he had a little more personality, that's part of the reason the foreign scene flocked behind Stephano and Naniwa so much, they had the confidence and cockiness we all love to see. Either way he is a brilliant and dominant player and I'm really looking forward to seeing his matches and how he fairs up.
I don't love to see cockiness and much prefer Neeb to Stephano and Naniwa.
I don't know if I agree with the "wind" part in GSL vs. the World. Perhaps Neeb didn't play to his full potential against TY and herO, but did people expect him to win against TY?
Anyhow, it's was a great read. I like the fact that it did touch on Neeb's dominance over and above what Naniwa or Stephano ever achieved in the foreign scene. But I guess it is a big question mark as to how he will do at Blizzcon.
I mean, it's hard to disagree with this placing. The only question is should neeb be higher than gumiho? the last 7 who have yet to be placed are all contestants of GSL finals all year, the cream of the crop. I believe neeb could beat any of them in a bo5 series, but i don't say that confidently either. anyways, good job olli~
On October 19 2017 00:30 FrkFrJss wrote: I don't know if I agree with the "wind" part in GSL vs. the World. Perhaps Neeb didn't play to his full potential against TY and herO, but did people expect him to win against TY?
Neeb taking 2 maps of TY is seriously impressive. Considering he lost 0-3 at WeSG. If anything it's a showing that he's up there with the best (even if TY didn't have the best results in that tournament overall)
On one hand he is the only real foreigner hope so I kiind of want to see Neeb advance, but there is no way he beats Rogue and I'd rather have soO advance so he can rack up another silver medal.
Somewhere deep in my heart, I want to see Neeb destroy Rogue the same way he did at KeSPA Cup, but alas, the chances now seem even slimmer than they were then D:
I agree with other's sentiments that Neeb appears to lack personality often... However, at the same time, I view this a sort of a positive too, he really does stay so cool under pressure. Not like he used to be. We don't fault so many Koreans like TY or Innovation for presenting such stoic images, why fault Neeb? I'd like to think Neeb just has a hard time transitioning from game-face to chill-face, but who knows.
As for the rankings, I would've placed him ahead of Rouge and SoO before Gumiho really. Well, I guess what I really mean is that Neeb has a far better shot of beating SoO or Rouge. Great PvZer and Gumiho has beat up on Neeb recently. HerO is a toss up for me, no issue with HerO being ahead. Obviously Innovation and Dark should be ahead of Neeb. That leaves Stats? He's had a phenomenal year, the number 1 KR in points should always (at least for now) be ahead of the number 1 in points for the foreign scene. Though Stats and Neeb always play very close matches.
I predict a quite easy run for Neeb in group stages. He only has to prepare for a single matchup (Z), and that is by far his best matchup... We shall see. I'll go ahead and leave my way too early prediction of a Neeb vs Dark final that goes to seven games.
On October 18 2017 23:41 Synchronize` wrote: Will be interesting to see how he fairs, if he made it to the finals that really would be an incredible story. As much as I do wish I could like Neeb I just wish he had a little more personality, that's part of the reason the foreign scene flocked behind Stephano and Naniwa so much, they had the confidence and cockiness we all love to see. Either way he is a brilliant and dominant player and I'm really looking forward to seeing his matches and how he fairs up.
I don't love to see cockiness and much prefer Neeb to Stephano and Naniwa.
Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Comments like this make me hope foreigners get brutally rekt at blizzcon.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Yeah he's been really consistent to be honest and seems to be constantly improving where as the foreigners who were near his equal have stagnated, like Nerchio, Showtime etc.
I don't think most people would be surprised if he did well though. I can't see him winning, but i could totally see him going to the semis with some favourable matchups.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Yeah he's been really consistent to be honest and seems to be constantly improving where as the foreigners who were near his equal have stagnated, like Nerchio, Showtime etc.
I don't think most people would be surprised if he did well though. I can't see him winning, but i could totally see him going to the semis with some favourable matchups.
I'm not sure if i see him winning but i'm pretty sure he'll do a lot better than what we think...
wtf look, Neeb is legit good. Very good. He has slaughtered koreans. But gumiho is a GSL champion. CHAMPION. Neeb is not close to GSL champion. This is wrong.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Yeah he's been really consistent to be honest and seems to be constantly improving where as the foreigners who were near his equal have stagnated, like Nerchio, Showtime etc.
I don't think most people would be surprised if he did well though. I can't see him winning, but i could totally see him going to the semis with some favourable matchups.
If you curate the bracket just right, I could totally see him win. Just make sure he faces Stats and herO + the worse ZvP of either Rogue or soO after the group stage, and he could definitely win that.
As long as Neeb a). Gets out of his bracket and b). Gets no Terrans at all, then he has a great chance of winning.
If he gets out of his group, Neeb beat a Korean Zerg, he can beat Stats/herO, and he just has to face not Dark in order to win. :D
On October 19 2017 04:13 fishjie wrote: wtf look, Neeb is legit good. Very good. He has slaughtered koreans. But gumiho is a GSL champion. CHAMPION. Neeb is not close to GSL champion. This is wrong.
Gumiho isn't close to GSL champion level either right now.
Everyone's shitting on hero but he's had ridiculously good results lately. He won Master's Colisseum 2 (beating players like Inno, Rogue, Dear and Soo) and he won his Ting group beating alive and Stats. While no, those are not offline major events, but the dude is playing really well right now. I don't know understand the criticism honestly.
On October 19 2017 04:13 fishjie wrote: wtf look, Neeb is legit good. Very good. He has slaughtered koreans. But gumiho is a GSL champion. CHAMPION. Neeb is not close to GSL champion. This is wrong.
Gumiho isn't close to GSL champion level either right now.
Gumiho is just as good now as when he won GSL. The difference is that he had perfect bracket luck back then, which is unlikely to be repeatable
On October 19 2017 04:13 fishjie wrote: wtf look, Neeb is legit good. Very good. He has slaughtered koreans. But gumiho is a GSL champion. CHAMPION. Neeb is not close to GSL champion. This is wrong.
Gumiho isn't close to GSL champion level either right now.
Gumiho is just as good now as when he won GSL. The difference is that he had perfect bracket luck back then, which is unlikely to be repeatable
His bracket wasn't particularly hard, but he's definitely fallen off since then, most notably in TvZ where his mech style just doesn't work as well anymore.
The best of his zone for three straight championships, still ranked 8
I don't disagree, but it certainly explains why only koreans would want more cross regions matches if true.
rank as overall skill with full preparation GSL conditions, yes, the kor rank is better, and the GSL matches are awesome
But, there are no similar competition conditions for EU/US. Hence no measurable/meaningful comparison possible if you use GSL conditions.
Anyway preparation time in GSL is what makes it great, blizzcon is different, neeb did it before in similar conditions in korea just last year. Although Koreans crush overall in shoutcraft kings, we've seen they can be surprised by players that are not even close to being in this ranking.
So serral or neeb can still make a good run in LAN conditions against the best, despite this rank imho (in my hopeful opinion)
and this ranking where everyone agrees GSL competition is the scale but mixes ppl who compete in it with ppl that don't is kind of meaningless
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Comments like this make me hope foreigners get brutally rekt at blizzcon.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Yeah he's been really consistent to be honest and seems to be constantly improving where as the foreigners who were near his equal have stagnated, like Nerchio, Showtime etc.
I don't think most people would be surprised if he did well though. I can't see him winning, but i could totally see him going to the semis with some favourable matchups.
I bolded the problem with starcraft 2 fans here. If he wins a few matches or maybe even makes a deep run the excuse will be that he had favourable match ups but if he loses in the group stages it will be because he's a foreigner and he'll never be able to beat Koreans, even though this is demonstrably false.
I get that the Korean players are generally the best players in the game since always but I've never understood why the thought that a foreigner might be able to win one of these huge tournaments seems to leave such a bad taste in so many mouths. Like, look at the comments about how easy neeb had it at KeSPA Cup. It's ridiculous.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Yeah he's been really consistent to be honest and seems to be constantly improving where as the foreigners who were near his equal have stagnated, like Nerchio, Showtime etc.
I don't think most people would be surprised if he did well though. I can't see him winning, but i could totally see him going to the semis with some favourable matchups.
I bolded the problem with starcraft 2 fans here. If he wins a few matches or maybe even makes a deep run the excuse will be that he had favourable match ups but if he loses in the group stages it will be because he's a foreigner and he'll never be able to beat Koreans, even though this is demonstrably false.
I get that the Korean players are generally the best players in the game since always but I've never understood why the thought that a foreigner might be able to win one of these huge tournaments seems to leave such a bad taste in so many mouths. Like, look at the comments about how easy neeb had it at KeSPA Cup. It's ridiculous.
Except I lauded him for his Kespa cup victory and rate him up there with the top Koreans. The fact that I don't expect him to win is not about him being foreign at all. I think most players need some form of luck to take the tournament. Gumiho played a lot of TvT to win the GSL, etc.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: Not sure if you're being fair with Neeb... saying things like "He came, he conquered, and like the wind, he left, to rise against in Dreamhack Austin" is like saying his inconsistent... when actually he's been pretty consistent for the past 2 years, He might not be the best... but i believe he should be a bit higher in the rank.
No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Yeah he's been really consistent to be honest and seems to be constantly improving where as the foreigners who were near his equal have stagnated, like Nerchio, Showtime etc.
I don't think most people would be surprised if he did well though. I can't see him winning, but i could totally see him going to the semis with some favourable matchups.
I bolded the problem with starcraft 2 fans here. If he wins a few matches or maybe even makes a deep run the excuse will be that he had favourable match ups but if he loses in the group stages it will be because he's a foreigner and he'll never be able to beat Koreans, even though this is demonstrably false.
I get that the Korean players are generally the best players in the game since always but I've never understood why the thought that a foreigner might be able to win one of these huge tournaments seems to leave such a bad taste in so many mouths. Like, look at the comments about how easy neeb had it at KeSPA Cup. It's ridiculous.
Not really. When a player consistantly performs at a certain level and then suddenly does better in one tournament while playing only their best matchup, you can make the excuse of bracket luck.
In the case of Neeb, making the bracket luck claim is justified. He went against players that didn't even know who he was, and won almost exclusively with PvP. Now if Neeb had maintained the same dominance he showed at kespa cup, no one could call bracket luck. The issue is he didn't. He got crushed at blizzcon, wesg, iem, and most recently gsl.
(worth noting that bracket luck is almost always a factor in who wins an event, just some more than others)
On October 19 2017 04:13 fishjie wrote: wtf look, Neeb is legit good. Very good. He has slaughtered koreans. But gumiho is a GSL champion. CHAMPION. Neeb is not close to GSL champion. This is wrong.
Gumiho isn't close to GSL champion level either right now.
Gumiho is just as good now as when he won GSL. The difference is that he had perfect bracket luck back then, which is unlikely to be repeatable
His bracket wasn't particularly hard, but he's definitely fallen off since then, most notably in TvZ where his mech style just doesn't work as well anymore.
His bracket in GSL was perfect. TvT was his best matchup and soO couldn't ZvT to save his life
Neeb is so difficult to rate because while he absolutely dominated the WCS Circuit, the WCS Circuit is weaker this year than it was last year with the loss of Polt and Showtime being a shadow of his former self.
On October 19 2017 00:02 Fango wrote: I think Neeb and Serral will reach the ro8 blizzcon at least.
Serral will have to get past Gumiho or beat True twice in ZvZ to do it (Vs Gumiho is far more likely). Neither he nor True stand a chance against Innovation who will probably end up as the number 1 ranked player going into the tournament. Gumiho's a wild card, if he shows up in the shape he was in for his Code S title run and somehow gets past Innovation in the group's winner's match then Serral and True don't have a chance. Their best chance is for Innovation to crush the group as is expected and then face an erratic Gumiho who they can wear down with standard play.
Neebs group is just generally tough but fortunately for him it only consists of one match up, but he needs to beat the two best Zergs in the whole tournament to advance (Dark is a solid 3rd best ok!)
That said, I think I like Neeb's chances the best of any of the foreigners in the tournament to make Ro8.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Comments like this make me hope foreigners get brutally rekt at blizzcon.
Need deserves higher rank than 8.
And you generally have negative forum comments, I doubt is has anything to do with the prior comment you quoted.
With Rogue’s current form, i dont the reason why he won’t rekt Neeb. To beat Rogue in PvZ, you just can’t play a straight game, but that’s Neeb strength, so... .
honestly he is so good sometimes, and then looks bad sometimes (vs scarlett recently) but still pulls out the wins, because there is that much of a skill gap. he has that superstar skill to him if only he puts out the play he has inside him. he could place anywhere at blizzcon imo and his ranking he is pretty accurate.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
The most suitable outcome is for both Rogue and soO to beat mass oracles/skytoss and then mention in the winner interviews how they watched a recent series involving Neeb and a Canadian Zerg and how hilariously bad non-Korean Zerg players are who should spend more time practicing and less time whining.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
Ah, the good old "light at the end of the tunnel is a train" scenario. Those who know despair, once knew hope. Those who know loss, once knew love.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
The most suitable outcome is for both Rogue and soO to beat mass oracles/skytoss and then mention in the winner interviews how they watched a recent series involving Neeb and a Canadian Zerg and how hilariously bad non-Korean Zerg players are who should spend more time practicing and less time whining.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
The most suitable outcome is for both Rogue and soO to beat mass oracles/skytoss and then mention in the winner interviews how they watched a recent series involving Neeb and a Canadian Zerg and how hilariously bad non-Korean Zerg players are who should spend more time practicing and less time whining.
Can't agree more. Playing skytoss against Rogue is like suicide
Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Comments like this make me hope foreigners get brutally rekt at blizzcon.
This.
I actually only want neeb to get rekt, all others are fine if they surprise me.
(I don't dislike neeb it's just that his fans are annoying)
On October 19 2017 03:31 siskel wrote: No matter how good you can say herO, Stats is... I believe in the past 2 years Neeb has had more consistency than herO, and is pretty close with Stats, so as far what protoss is about he're pretty much one of the strongest in the world.
I have a feeling Neeb might give a surprise this year...
Comments like this make me hope foreigners get brutally rekt at blizzcon.
This.
I actually only want neeb to get rekt, all others are fine if they surprise me.
(I don't dislike neeb it's just that his fans are annoying)
For someone who has accomplished so much, I don't think a bop out at blizzcon will do much to deter us fans from being.. fans. Delusion or otherwise. Sort of comes with the territory.. Stephano apologists were the worst when he tried his hand at GSL finally. It's human nature.
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
If Gumiho was a circuit player I doubt he would have won 3 of 4 major events the way Neeb did. He did not make it out of group in GSL season 3. Lost to Zest in the rd of 8 at Homestory cup and did not play in SSL season 2 premier.
Neeb did have an overall better year.
Neeb is breathing rarefied air. No foreigner in the past would have been rated close to 8th. Naniwa and Lilbow were a distant 16 in their Blizzcons. Neeb for the 2nd time in a row will make the final 8 at Blizzcon and it is there he is likely to be stalled.
What makes the circuit exciting to me is that the top 3 players are all so young. Neeb-Elazer-Serral are all just 19. They can get even better.
There's a very real scenario where Neeb falls out in the group stage, though. Rogue is in insane form at the moment, I expect him to beat Neeb. But soO's ZvZ is immaculate. That means he's got a very good chance to beat Nerchio and could absolutely beat Rogue as well. If soO advances in first place, I don't see Neeb beating Rogue in the rematch. Rogue is that good.
On October 19 2017 18:31 Olli wrote: There's a very real scenario where Neeb falls out in the group stage, though. Rogue is in insane form at the moment, I expect him to beat Neeb. But soO's ZvZ is immaculate. That means he's got a very good chance to beat Nerchio and could absolutely beat Rogue as well. If soO advances in first place, I don't see Neeb beating Rogue in the rematch. Rogue is that good.
soO winning a ZvP against Neeb doesn't seem unlikely to me either. Though it's a hard call (for me) since although Neebs PvZ looks disgustingly good, it's usually against foreigners and on top of that it's hard to know soOs form and I generally think he's kind of inconsistent outside of GSL. He did beat Stats at the super tournament though, so he definitely shouldn't be underestimated in the matchup.
On October 19 2017 18:18 Rolltide wrote: Neeb is breathing rarefied air. No foreigner in the past would have been rated close to 8th. Naniwa and Lilbow were a distant 16 in their Blizzcons.
Surely that had nothing to do with 15 Koreans present at the respective Global Finals :0
On October 19 2017 18:18 Rolltide wrote: If Gumiho was a circuit player I doubt he would have won 3 of 4 major events the way Neeb did. He did not make it out of group in GSL season 3. Lost to Zest in the rd of 8 at Homestory cup and did not play in SSL season 2 premier.
GuMiho made it to the Ro16 in GSL S3 and was one game away (against INnoVation) from Ro8. As for SSL, he didn't even try to qualify in season 2 (like TY). I imagine he didn't participate because those qualifiers were one week before his GSL finals.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
The most suitable outcome is for both Rogue and soO to beat mass oracles/skytoss and then mention in the winner interviews how they watched a recent series involving Neeb and a Canadian Zerg and how hilariously bad non-Korean Zerg players are who should spend more time practicing and less time whining.
On October 19 2017 18:31 Olli wrote: There's a very real scenario where Neeb falls out in the group stage, though. Rogue is in insane form at the moment, I expect him to beat Neeb. But soO's ZvZ is immaculate. That means he's got a very good chance to beat Nerchio and could absolutely beat Rogue as well. If soO advances in first place, I don't see Neeb beating Rogue in the rematch. Rogue is that good.
soO winning a ZvP against Neeb doesn't seem unlikely to me either. Though it's a hard call (for me) since although Neebs PvZ looks disgustingly good, it's usually against foreigners and on top of that it's hard to know soOs form and I generally think he's kind of inconsistent outside of GSL. He did beat Stats at the super tournament though, so he definitely shouldn't be underestimated in the matchup.
Uhm, can I get a link to this, would like to see that
I have no idea who the Canadian ZErg is. Not following LotV at all. The only Canadian Zerg I know wouldn't whine, would she?
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
Like MC, PartinG, Dark, Polt, MMA, Stephano?
Those players are most all retired or close. I am not speaking in the past but rather the present whereby Neeb and Innovation dominate their respective screens and never display an ounce of personality. Of course there will always be exceptions, but like I said I believe it is no coincidence. Other players who used to show a different demeanor have changed substantially as well. For instance GuMiho now looks like someone is holding his family hostage when he is playing.
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
Like MC, PartinG, Dark, Polt, MMA, Stephano?
Those players are most all retired or close. I am not speaking in the past but rather the present whereby Neeb and Innovation dominate their respective screens and never display an ounce of personality. Of course there will always be exceptions, but like I said I believe it is no coincidence. Other players who used to show a different demeanor have changed substantially as well. For instance GuMiho now looks like someone is holding his family hostage when he is playing.
How is this relevant? Those players proved you can have a great personality while also being a god at SC2
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
Like MC, PartinG, Dark, Polt, MMA, Stephano?
Those players are most all retired or close. I am not speaking in the past but rather the present whereby Neeb and Innovation dominate their respective screens and never display an ounce of personality. Of course there will always be exceptions, but like I said I believe it is no coincidence. Other players who used to show a different demeanor have changed substantially as well. For instance GuMiho now looks like someone is holding his family hostage when he is playing.
Bah, nonsense, if you don't have a "player with pesonality" you can always create one. AKA The Jurgen story.
On October 19 2017 18:18 Rolltide wrote: Neeb is breathing rarefied air. No foreigner in the past would have been rated close to 8th. Naniwa and Lilbow were a distant 16 in their Blizzcons.
Surely that had nothing to do with 15 Koreans present at the respective Global Finals :0
e: soO will wipe the floor with Neeb
Right?
When the tournament is segregated with 8 foreign players it's not worth nearly as much to be ranked so high compared with previous blizzcons.
On October 19 2017 18:31 Olli wrote: There's a very real scenario where Neeb falls out in the group stage, though. Rogue is in insane form at the moment, I expect him to beat Neeb. But soO's ZvZ is immaculate. That means he's got a very good chance to beat Nerchio and could absolutely beat Rogue as well. If soO advances in first place, I don't see Neeb beating Rogue in the rematch. Rogue is that good.
soO winning a ZvP against Neeb doesn't seem unlikely to me either. Though it's a hard call (for me) since although Neebs PvZ looks disgustingly good, it's usually against foreigners and on top of that it's hard to know soOs form and I generally think he's kind of inconsistent outside of GSL. He did beat Stats at the super tournament though, so he definitely shouldn't be underestimated in the matchup.
Uhm, can I get a link to this, would like to see that
I have no idea who the Canadian ZErg is. Not following LotV at all. The only Canadian Zerg I know wouldn't whine, would she?
I love Scarlett but she has a pretty prolific history of balance whining on twitter along with a lot of the other foreign Zergs.
I tend to justify it though because she actually backs up her claims about Protoss by actually PLAYING Protoss and winning with it, people like Nerchio generally bitch about every match up and then never back any of it up with actual off-race play. Scarlett never whines about Terran but she's constantly complaining about how easy Protoss has it in PvZ.
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
Like MC, PartinG, Dark, Polt, MMA, Stephano?
Those players are most all retired or close. I am not speaking in the past but rather the present whereby Neeb and Innovation dominate their respective screens and never display an ounce of personality. Of course there will always be exceptions, but like I said I believe it is no coincidence. Other players who used to show a different demeanor have changed substantially as well. For instance GuMiho now looks like someone is holding his family hostage when he is playing.
How is this relevant? Those players proved you can have a great personality while also being a god at SC2
In the past yes, but the meta has changed significantly. And again sure there are always exceptions, but my beef is with those who criticize Neeb as though his personality is a problem.
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
Like MC, PartinG, Dark, Polt, MMA, Stephano?
Those players are most all retired or close. I am not speaking in the past but rather the present whereby Neeb and Innovation dominate their respective screens and never display an ounce of personality. Of course there will always be exceptions, but like I said I believe it is no coincidence. Other players who used to show a different demeanor have changed substantially as well. For instance GuMiho now looks like someone is holding his family hostage when he is playing.
How is this relevant? Those players proved you can have a great personality while also being a god at SC2
In the past yes, but the meta has changed significantly. And again sure there are always exceptions, but my beef is with those who criticize Neeb as though his personality is a problem.
Blizzard must be a lot better at adjusting the meta than I thought if they're able to do a targeted nerf on players with personality.
On October 19 2017 15:00 Suohhen wrote: Too many people treat GSL as though it is the holy grail. There are obviously significant reasons why foreigners have never performed well in the GSL compared to other tournaments which cannot reasonably be explained by talent alone. Also regarding Neeb's personality, there is a reason why the best players have no personality, because they commit every second of their day to Starcraft and nothing else.
Like MC, PartinG, Dark, Polt, MMA, Stephano?
Those players are most all retired or close. I am not speaking in the past but rather the present whereby Neeb and Innovation dominate their respective screens and never display an ounce of personality. Of course there will always be exceptions, but like I said I believe it is no coincidence. Other players who used to show a different demeanor have changed substantially as well. For instance GuMiho now looks like someone is holding his family hostage when he is playing.
How is this relevant? Those players proved you can have a great personality while also being a god at SC2
In the past yes, but the meta has changed significantly. And again sure there are always exceptions, but my beef is with those who criticize Neeb as though his personality is a problem.
Blizzard must be a lot better at adjusting the meta than I thought if they're able to do a targeted nerf on players with personality.
While David Kim distracted the masses with bunker build times, he secretly and subtly implemented his master plan. He retired only after he had suceeded at purging SC2 of all personality.
On October 19 2017 10:00 PuddleZerg wrote: I can't wait to see Neeb fall to a Korean Terran again.
Can't fall to a Korean Terran if you already got knocked out by a Korean Zerg.
The most suitable outcome of that group is for Neeb to beat Rogue with the most disgusting skytoss imaginable before losing to soO and getting crushed in the rematch with Rogue.
The most suitable outcome is for both Rogue and soO to beat mass oracles/skytoss and then mention in the winner interviews how they watched a recent series involving Neeb and a Canadian Zerg and how hilariously bad non-Korean Zerg players are who should spend more time practicing and less time whining.
Can't agree more. Playing skytoss against Rogue is like suicide
Let the games begin and let's see who among us is right!!!! go Neeeebbb!!!!!