On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
....
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly.
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? "
90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1.
These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them.
Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away.
I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away.
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao.
What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.
Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer.
The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off.
Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating?
To piss you off.
I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants.
on your last post, there are also cases of legitimate players being screwed my the MMR system. I stopped playing during LotV when they didnt go through with the macro changes we had then and went the 12worker route instead, instead of doing 50-50 sc2 bw i went back to full bw. A month ago I ran into an old friend on bnet and he wanted to play sc2 2v2 so I did and after he left I thought ''oh well let s see how 1v1 goes". I went 7-0, utterely crushed poor folks with 40 apm, I felt so bad for them. And then my MMR rose to the point i play d3-d2 level players (which are way worse than hots diamond league level, or may be my style is better on the current maps or so outdated that the opponents just dont know how to respond, w/e) but i m still gold in my icon, because my MMR is "not stable yet". And when I win (gold icon vs d3-d2, I get flamed, reported, insulted, you name it, I ve seen it all. How many boring games do I have to go through? 20? 50? What about those poor souls I am playing in the meantime? and I m getting insulted too, like i m some smurf (or worse things). End result? I finally played 15games in lotv after over a year break, and I quit. I thought may be i d do 90% bw 10%sc2 to have fun with my friend once in a while but where s the fun there. Surely if I play 40 apm guys 4 games in a row while i hover around 150-200 with 5times their score at the end of the game the matchmaking should bump me up quickly instead of giving me the same guys over and over, 40 apm then 45, wow, amazing. But what do I look to my unfortunate opponents? a hacker, that s what (or a smurf, which isnt great either). on topic: every hacker should be banned, but at the same time every case should be observed fairly, and that s a lot of ressource, calling someone a hacker just because you lost (badly) does not help, as it creates more files to go through for no reason.
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
....
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly.
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not
On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote:
On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote:
On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:
On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:
On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? "
90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1.
These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them.
Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away.
I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away.
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao.
What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.
Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer.
The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off.
Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating?
To piss you off.
I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants.
on your last post, there are also cases of legitimate players being screwed my the MMR system. I stopped playing during LotV when they didnt go through with the macro changes we had then and went the 12worker route instead, instead of doing 50-50 sc2 bw i went back to full bw. A month ago I ran into an old friend on bnet and he wanted to play sc2 2v2 so I did and after he left I thought ''oh well let s see how 1v1 goes". I went 7-0, utterely crushed poor folks with 40 apm, I felt so bad for them. And then my MMR rose to the point i play d3-d2 level players (which are way worse than hots diamond league level, or may be my style is better on the current maps or so outdated that the opponents just dont know how to respond, w/e) but i m still gold in my icon, because my MMR is "not stable yet". And when I win (gold icon vs d3-d2, I get flamed, reported, insulted, you name it, I ve seen it all. How many boring games do I have to go through? 20? 50? What about those poor souls I am playing in the meantime? and I m getting insulted too, like i m some smurf (or worse things). End result? I finally played 15games in lotv after over a year break, and I quit. I thought may be i d do 90% bw 10%sc2 to have fun with my friend once in a while but where s the fun there. Surely if I play 40 apm guys 4 games in a row while i hover around 150-200 with 5times their score at the end of the game the matchmaking should bump me up quickly instead of giving me the same guys over and over, 40 apm then 45, wow, amazing. But what do I look to my unfortunate opponents? a hacker, that s what (or a smurf, which isnt great either). on topic: every hacker should be banned, but at the same time every case should be observed fairly, and that s a lot of ressource, calling someone a hacker just because you lost (badly) does not help, as it creates more files to go through for no reason.
hi, ur post makes no sense. if u want to play vs people who dont have 45 apm i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
oh and edit: if ur mmr is in a different league (d3), but ur still in gold x, that is cuz of provisional MMR.... takes like... 30 games to get out of cuz u lose/gain -/+ 100~ per game.....
so...i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ?????
On December 02 2018 00:44 ggrrg wrote: I am always very sceptical of hacking claims, but given the comments I will make sure to check out the replay. Is it more blatant than this though? + Show Spoiler +
AHAHAHAHAHAAHHA "gosu" my arse, interesting video
Wow, I was wondering what shenanigans would happen. That blew me away. Absolutely stunning.
Ok I didn't re-bump this thread to dig up old replies. Please see my latest post and comment.
I'm bumping this because I'm still seeing more and more of this openly cheating overt kind of play.
Here is another user: Ares NA Server
Beginning: No Scout 1 marine to defend into 3 CC (based on my opener)
6:46 Clicking into fog of war at BC's approaching his choke (sits there not moving his vision then locks them down at the perfect time)
9:14 goes right to my hidden CC that just started building
9:43 Goes right to BCs moving across the top of the map
The list goes on. Blizzard please do something! I'm also never one to judge rank by APM because I am a fan of GoOdy but 130 APM is pretty low for his master status (and mine is already very low for my rank) - he/she must have SUPER game sense!
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
....
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly.
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not
On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote:
On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote:
On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:
On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:
On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks.
i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise.
maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed.
i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem.
To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?"
High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation.
If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? "
90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1.
These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them.
Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away.
I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away.
This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it.
Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao.
What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.
Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer.
The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off.
Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating?
To piss you off.
I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants.
on your last post, there are also cases of legitimate players being screwed my the MMR system. I stopped playing during LotV when they didnt go through with the macro changes we had then and went the 12worker route instead, instead of doing 50-50 sc2 bw i went back to full bw. A month ago I ran into an old friend on bnet and he wanted to play sc2 2v2 so I did and after he left I thought ''oh well let s see how 1v1 goes". I went 7-0, utterely crushed poor folks with 40 apm, I felt so bad for them. And then my MMR rose to the point i play d3-d2 level players (which are way worse than hots diamond league level, or may be my style is better on the current maps or so outdated that the opponents just dont know how to respond, w/e) but i m still gold in my icon, because my MMR is "not stable yet". And when I win (gold icon vs d3-d2, I get flamed, reported, insulted, you name it, I ve seen it all. How many boring games do I have to go through? 20? 50? What about those poor souls I am playing in the meantime? and I m getting insulted too, like i m some smurf (or worse things). End result? I finally played 15games in lotv after over a year break, and I quit. I thought may be i d do 90% bw 10%sc2 to have fun with my friend once in a while but where s the fun there. Surely if I play 40 apm guys 4 games in a row while i hover around 150-200 with 5times their score at the end of the game the matchmaking should bump me up quickly instead of giving me the same guys over and over, 40 apm then 45, wow, amazing. But what do I look to my unfortunate opponents? a hacker, that s what (or a smurf, which isnt great either). on topic: every hacker should be banned, but at the same time every case should be observed fairly, and that s a lot of ressource, calling someone a hacker just because you lost (badly) does not help, as it creates more files to go through for no reason.
hi, ur post makes no sense. if u want to play vs people who dont have 45 apm i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
oh and edit: if ur mmr is in a different league (d3), but ur still in gold x, that is cuz of provisional MMR.... takes like... 30 games to get out of cuz u lose/gain -/+ 100~ per game.....
so...i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ?????
It seems i wasn't clear or you read too fast. I was refering.ro deacon.frost part about people tanking to play 40 easy games. Yes i can play those 40games until my mmr stabilises but to the opponent i m facing how is it different from facing a smurf. If i have to play 30+ super easy games to get back to a decent level of opposition, it s exactly the same as tanking 50games then cruising at a lower mmr? The only difference is i dont do it on purpose, i m actively trying to get out of this range, but for my opponent it s the same. My point was the system takes too long to bump you up. In bw i dont face 5 f league players in my placements, it goes up fairly quickly. TLDR: "just play more noobs and crush them until you reach a good level" is exactly my point, to them it s the same as facing a smurf, and to me it s boring to do that for more than 10games.
It really depends on the length of the game and the amount + type of spam that you do - for example, moving the camera in most of the main ways including camera hotkeys does not count as an action. People who don't spam or who spam w/ camera hotkeys can start out with like 40apm and climb well into the triple digits over time as there's more stuff to do in the game, while people who hotkey 2 probes and spam between them can float 1000apm for the early game and see that fall off a cliff as the actual game starts.
Clicking 3-5 times to move an initial unit somewhere instead of just once with good mouse control also inflates APM
On January 02 2019 21:30 watchlulu wrote: Lol, my opponent just had some sort of automatic splitting bot, as soon as I had Banelings, his lings went absolutely batshit crazy and he reached over 21 thousand APM.