Check my profile. I've never played this person. I've never done this build for over a month. Not only is this patch frustrating with the changes but it also has loopholes with hacks.
https://drop.sc/replay/9121337
PS misspelled title sorry.
Forum Index > SC2 General |
SirPinky
United States525 Posts
Check my profile. I've never played this person. I've never done this build for over a month. Not only is this patch frustrating with the changes but it also has loopholes with hacks. https://drop.sc/replay/9121337 PS misspelled title sorry. | ||
atrox_
United Kingdom1706 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
I NOW BELIEVE | ||
Musicus
Germany23567 Posts
And yeah, this one is insane lol. | ||
dummy1
420 Posts
EDIT: People, please, do NOT buy hacks. Remember that. Justice and fairness. User was warned for this post. | ||
SHODAN
United Kingdom1049 Posts
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On December 01 2018 21:18 SirPinky wrote:Not only is this patch frustrating with the changes but it also has loopholes with hacks. It's unlikely that the patch has anything to do with it. The hacks that existed are just becoming more widespread. | ||
wasilix
Russian Federation80 Posts
I'm flabbergasted at how dumb this hacker is. I couldn't imagine what's it, that made people here laugh so hard before watching the replay. | ||
RaNgeD
United States730 Posts
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zelevin
United States198 Posts
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2707 Posts
Is it more blatant than this though? + Show Spoiler + | ||
Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2517 Posts
On December 02 2018 02:05 NinjaNight wrote: Lol you could've beat him, his mechanics are like gold league level. Keep your proxys where they were built instead of lifting into his base and transition into a safe macro game That's what I thought! Although he used a hack and knew exactly what you were doing, the game was still "closer" than expected. | ||
DrDevice
Canada132 Posts
But if it was me, I might've been too frustrated to think straight. Screw this hacker, so blatant | ||
WeakOwl
25 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
I had someone accuse me of hacking last week (it turns out that observers are pretty good if people don't bother to bring detection with their armies) and it made me wonder if it isn't more of a thing now than last time I played SC2. This kind of stuff confirms this. Between the increase in hacking, and the people trolling using new accounts, they need to start policing this type of stuff more now that the game is F2P. Likewise with hatespeech and the like. I've been seeing a loooot of that too. They need to respond faster to reports. | ||
Doink
75 Posts
As long as there aren't 50% hackers I wouldn't bother. If you play a hacker his mechanics etc. will be shit so you still have a "fair" chance. Pls ban them though blizz. | ||
CaptainBurnTurn
United States80 Posts
On December 02 2018 03:59 Ben... wrote: Holy moly that's blatant. They didn't even bother to try to hide it. They just straight up rallied 5 SCVs to an unscouted area. I had someone accuse me of hacking last week (it turns out that observers are pretty good if people don't bother to bring detection with their armies) and it made me wonder if it isn't more of a thing now than last time I played SC2. This kind of stuff confirms this. Between the increase in hacking, and the people trolling using new accounts, they need to start policing this type of stuff more now that the game is F2P. Likewise with hatespeech and the like. I've been seeing a loooot of that too. They need to respond faster to reports. Yeah I've had racial slurs thrown at me more than a few times. | ||
brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. | ||
SirPinky
United States525 Posts
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. | ||
IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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SinO[Ob]
France897 Posts
This guy xD ! Thanks for the good laugh! | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15598 Posts
On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks. As you said, you need to be at least somewhat close in skill to beat a better player in sc2 using hacks. I'd be very surprised if f2p has anything to with with hacking becoming more prevalent in master/gm. | ||
RadgeRayden
20 Posts
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dummy1
420 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
And if you check his Bnet profile (link provided on the replay site) you will see the account is very new, made in around early November. Which tells me this is a fairly high level player trying to mess with people | ||
207aicila
1236 Posts
On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. | ||
zokker13
Germany77 Posts
On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks. How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something? | ||
DejanM8
4 Posts
On December 02 2018 22:27 zokker13 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks. How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something? I would agree with him that they cant. SC2 is more demanding in case of mechanics and pace of the game. Cant imagine wc3 or even some CS/Dota2/LOL player becaming master or GM in 1 month. They couldnt even learn basic unit counters in that time. | ||
NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On December 02 2018 22:40 DejanM8 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 22:27 zokker13 wrote: On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks. How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something? I would agree with him that they cant. SC2 is more demanding in case of mechanics and pace of the game. Cant imagine wc3 or even some CS/Dota2/LOL player becaming master or GM in 1 month. They couldnt even learn basic unit counters in that time. LOL at zokker for saying you can do that. With no background in SC2 I think I'll bet that the scenario he described is rather impossible for most people on this earth. Btw SC2 going F2P means that 'new' players can easily get to Masters because they are smurfs. | ||
-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. I don't think that he was being particular in what he was saying; and he does have a point. Even if they don't know who you are being acknowledged, either in a good way or bad way ( fuck u cheater / wow you're really good ), gives these people some sort of validation. Not showing them any time to get this sort of response or to show you have no interest in them definitely elicits a response of: well if no1 is doing anything is this really that fun anymore? Of course, maybe not 90%, but I'd say a large number of people who hack at least have some inclination to not receiving enough attention/drive at some form of validation (hence cheating to beat competition/show you can fight at the top) | ||
207aicila
1236 Posts
On December 02 2018 23:05 -Kyo- wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. I don't think that he was being particular in what he was saying; and he does have a point. Even if they don't know who you are being acknowledged, either in a good way or bad way ( fuck u cheater / wow you're really good ), gives these people some sort of validation. Not showing them any time to get this sort of response or to show you have no interest in them definitely elicits a response of: well if no1 is doing anything is this really that fun anymore? Of course, maybe not 90%, but I'd say a large number of people who hack at least have some inclination to not receiving enough attention/drive at some form of validation (hence cheating to beat competition/show you can fight at the top) Receiving attention by pretending to be good at something / competitive success is completely different than "to piss people off" and is in fact the insecurity I was referencing. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15598 Posts
On December 02 2018 22:27 zokker13 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 11:05 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think players who started with sc2 with f2p are already good enough to get master/gm even with hacks. How delusional. Do you really think SC2 is such a demanding game that decent people from other games can't rush Master in a month or something? Uhhm that has nothing to do with sc2 being demanding. I don't think anyone can rush into the "master equivalent" of LoL, Dota, CS etc within a month either. Unless they're like pros, but why would a pro switch to another game for the sole purpose of hacking? | ||
WeakOwl
25 Posts
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. I don't recall saying high level (gm) hackers do not exist. I will say that they are very few and when it comes to tournaments they're pretty much none. Hacking cannot and will not ever be completely stopped in any game at this current period in time. Maybe I am naive, id rather play and work on improving my own gameplay rather than complain about the couple of games i might have run across a hacker knowing nothing can be done about it. Are these hackers preventing you from being the best sc2 player you can be? Are they preventing you from making hundreds of thousands of dollars? I don't see how losing a few games to hackers can prevent almost anyone from being where they're supposed to be. I see claiming hackers as an excuse. I am not capable of designing a full proof system for preventing hacking in sc2 or any other game for that matter. So I choose to move on and just be patient, Ive run into 1 person I can 100% confirm hacked in my sc2 career having bought the game on release. I reported him and moved on. If I am playing against hacker it only makes me try harder. And yes if you're the best at what you do no matter the field you will most likely be well off if in your eyes and rich to many others. Hacking is bad and having made the game f2p is what has increased the amount of hackers (that I personally never seem to run into.) and not the patch. This is the only point I was originally trying to get across. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. | ||
Stretch90
Canada4 Posts
My profile - https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/702662 His profile - https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/8351080 | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5465 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
The actual hacker is GGyo | ||
avilo
United States4100 Posts
But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it. But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it. Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent. Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop. Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed. | ||
SHODAN
United Kingdom1049 Posts
On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker even when they clearly don't hack" ftfy. the boy who cried wolf made the problem worse | ||
billynasty
United States260 Posts
On December 03 2018 09:30 SHODAN wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker even when they clearly don't hack" ftfy. the boy who cried wolf made the problem worse My thoughts exactly. Something definitely needs to be done about hackers, no doubt. But perhaps more attention wouldve been brought to the issue if it werent for people overmaking the claims that others were hacking while they surely werent. By falsely accusing others of hacking, all it accomplished was to detract from other valid cases of players who were indeed hacking. Nobody should ever say that nobody has never hacked against Avilo, because some surely have. But he's also falsely claimed countless players were hacking as the reason for his losses, when theres no way in hell they did. Kinda ironic when the person famous for calling out hackers is the same person whose helped shield them with all his baseless false accusations. What we really need is someone who is respected across the community, whose words ring true & garner respect, to help make the case on this subject. However I'm sure Blizzard is aware of the hacks & has been for some time. We just need them to do something about them now. I'm guessing theres only so much they're prepared to do about it. | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote: Show nested quote + What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer. The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off. Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating? To piss you off. | ||
loft
United States344 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. .... This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly. On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote: On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer. The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off. Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating? To piss you off. I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. | ||
Waxangel
United States32432 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." Hey remember that time you repeatedly got beaten by Leenock, who happened to be streaming at the exact same time as you and you repeatedly called him a hacker, as he killed you over and over again with ease? If you want to help, stay quiet, becuase even if I saw a blatant hack, just seeing your name makes me doubt it. | ||
NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people. But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it. But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it. Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent. Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop. Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed. I think you have lost your credibility for calling out people. And the hacking is not the only problem SC2 faces as a community | ||
BigRedDog
461 Posts
Since everyone plays ladder must be online, it is not hard to set up a cycle where it changes in such a way that maphack programs will not work. Of course, maphack developer will catch up. But by the time they catch up, just change it again. It won't eliminate maphacking BUT it will greatly reduce it by making it a pain to always go and download the latest maphacking program. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote:I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. The mass throwing of games is a separate issue from the hackers but is also one the needs to be addressed. There needs to be a limit on how fast you start matching again after having a previous match (say, if you match someone, there is a cooldown before you can start matchmaking again unless it classifies you as winning within that cooldown time. If you play a normal game this cooldown doesn't matter. If you throw, you have to wait a couple minutes for the cooldown to reset. If your opponent throws, then you can start matching again immediately) and/or a system in place to check if people are throwing games or not. If someone suddenly is losing 10+ games in a row in well under 10 minutes then something fishy is obviously going on. I recently played someone ranked silver who was playing unranked and is now playing against 5200 MMR master and low GM players and was trolling both games I played against them. I checked their match history and they had thrown what appeared to be over 30 games in a row. Other games have similar systems in place to prevent people from abusing the matchmaking systems, it isn't unreasonable to have the same expectations for SC2. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On December 04 2018 04:39 Ben... wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote:I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. The mass throwing of games is a separate issue from the hackers but is also one the needs to be addressed. There needs to be a limit on how fast you start matching again after having a previous match (say, if you match someone, there is a cooldown before you can start matchmaking again unless it classifies you as winning within that cooldown time. If you play a normal game this cooldown doesn't matter. If you throw, you have to wait a couple minutes for the cooldown to reset. If your opponent throws, then you can start matching again immediately) and/or a system in place to check if people are throwing games or not. If someone suddenly is losing 10+ games in a row in well under 10 minutes then something fishy is obviously going on. I recently played someone ranked silver who was playing unranked and is now playing against 5200 MMR master and low GM players and was trolling both games I played against them. I checked their match history and they had thrown what appeared to be over 30 games in a row. Other games have similar systems in place to prevent people from abusing the matchmaking systems, it isn't unreasonable to have the same expectations for SC2. Nah, why limit? Then these players will find a bot which will q them while they're at work(or alt-tabbed or something) and they won't play the game anyway. Take me - I play only unranked. And I don't play mirror games, randoms and barcodes. Sometimes I leave more than 10 games in a row because it's a mirror after mirror spiced with some randoms. I can't do anything about this and if you insist on me having a "cooldown" then do something about me forcing me to play matchups I don;t like. Sure, smurf accounts are bad, but it's a F2P game, you can have many smurf accounts you will play once in a blue moon to keep them on a low level. People will find a way around the system. There's no real solution to this. Some people will be jerks | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:51 ProTech wrote: Bottom line is, leaks have confirmed that blizzard employees aren't even making industry standard pay, and it's the main reason why we have so much nonsense in the game The other part of the leak was, that the high prestige of the company still gets them quality people. This cheating situation is Blizzard don't caring, it's not about quality of the people. Look at Bethesda or Dice last releases... Don't tell just a half of the leak, tell the whole part of it. | ||
xtorn
4060 Posts
On December 02 2018 00:44 ggrrg wrote: I am always very sceptical of hacking claims, but given the comments I will make sure to check out the replay. Is it more blatant than this though? + Show Spoiler + https://youtu.be/boyZjC_mj68?t=466 AHAHAHAHAHAAHHA "gosu" my arse, interesting video | ||
Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people. But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it. But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it. Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent. Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop. Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed. You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. | ||
Cptbeefy
Ireland13 Posts
On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people. But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it. But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it. Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent. Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop. Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed. You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. This does not help our mission. | ||
dummy1
420 Posts
On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote: You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. Jeeeeeeez. Is this something personal? Dude, getout please it doesn't help us at all. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15522 Posts
On December 02 2018 03:59 Ben... wrote: Likewise with hatespeech and the like. I've been seeing a loooot of that too. They need to respond faster to reports. i can always just mute my opponent. i don't mind going back to 1999 where anything and everything goes. if Blizzard takes the money they would've spent on policing things and puts it into the GSL, WCS and making sure the majority of ladder games have good game play that is even better. | ||
YTMadnetics
Ireland51 Posts
On December 17 2018 23:48 dummy1 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote: You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. Jeeeeeeez. Is this something personal? Dude, getout please it doesn't help us at all. Actually Railgan makes a very good point, Avilo is a big reason that these hackers have gone unnoticed for so long. Avilo has had a habit of falsely accusing players for years which has softened the community exposed to it. People have gotten so used to hearing his ramblings that they just ignore every claim of somebody hacking. This leads to legitimate claims being overlooked because of how often he cries wolf. | ||
dummy1
420 Posts
On December 18 2018 01:12 YTMadnetics wrote: Show nested quote + On December 17 2018 23:48 dummy1 wrote: On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote: You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. Jeeeeeeez. Is this something personal? Dude, getout please it doesn't help us at all. Actually Railgan makes a very good point, Avilo is a big reason that these hackers have gone unnoticed for so long. Avilo has had a habit of falsely accusing players for years which has softened the community exposed to it. People have gotten so used to hearing his ramblings that they just ignore every claim of somebody hacking. This leads to legitimate claims being overlooked because of how often he cries wolf. Dude, it's not the best time for this conversation. Please, we need to stop the war between Avilo and the community. That's all. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On December 18 2018 01:49 dummy1 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 18 2018 01:12 YTMadnetics wrote: On December 17 2018 23:48 dummy1 wrote: On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote: You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. Jeeeeeeez. Is this something personal? Dude, getout please it doesn't help us at all. Actually Railgan makes a very good point, Avilo is a big reason that these hackers have gone unnoticed for so long. Avilo has had a habit of falsely accusing players for years which has softened the community exposed to it. People have gotten so used to hearing his ramblings that they just ignore every claim of somebody hacking. This leads to legitimate claims being overlooked because of how often he cries wolf. Dude, it's not the best time for this conversation. Please, we need to stop the war between Avilo and the community. That's all. Avilo can stop any time he wants | ||
Kiaph
111 Posts
just good enough for it to "maybe be luck" but imagine doing that every zvt on the ladder, no surprise the win rate of the players doing it are like 70% plus opening pool first every game lol I wish I took more information down when I reported him/her, so I could post it here, but I just wanted to share an example of something simple, that doesn't take "prior skills" to execute and give your self a small but significant advantage. | ||
dummy1
420 Posts
I can't believe, but someone shows a working hack in 1v1 on EU. Dec.12. Holy fock. | ||
getg00d
United States120 Posts
On December 24 2018 19:46 dummy1 wrote: https://vimeo.com/306612522 I can't believe, but someone shows a working hack in 1v1 on EU. Dec.12. Holy fock. Dec. 16th* That map hack is kinda crazy too... | ||
Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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watchlulu
Germany459 Posts
Here's the link to the Replay: https://drop.sc/replay/9389531 (Obvious Bot operating at around 5:30) | ||
alpenrahm
Germany628 Posts
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iloveav
Poland1463 Posts
Previously it was one game in around 30 where someone would be using aimbots. Now its around one in 8. Considering how much trouble Blizzard is in I dont think this is gonna be high on their list of priorities. | ||
Vanillatoss
76 Posts
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TwiggyWan
France328 Posts
On January 02 2019 22:52 alpenrahm wrote: lol. what we need is Ai assisted Starcraft. may the hackers get their own playground to muck up. I'd play this, just to experience what the game is like with fast hands D: More seriously it comes back to the countless threads of simplifying UI/AI vs keeping them as game mechanics. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On January 02 2019 21:30 watchlulu wrote: Lol, my opponent just had some sort of automatic splitting bot, as soon as I had Banelings, his lings went absolutely batshit crazy and he reached over 21 thousand APM. Here's the link to the Replay: https://drop.sc/replay/9389531 (Obvious Bot operating at around 5:30) I took the liberty of putting that bit at 5:30 on youtube so people on here can see it without opening the game. It needs to be seen. It's completely nuts! Check out all the different move commands. That person's APM would just randomly spike into the low thousands for the first few minutes, but then out of nowhere that bit at 5:30 happens. I love how the barcode still loses. | ||
andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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Xamo
Spain859 Posts
- Never misses an inject - Splits and micros lings, banes and queens at incredible speed, even when not required - Transforms lings into banes in the blink of an eye - Shows poor strategy/decision making. Did you just play DeepMind or TSTARBOT? Anyone else has played against this type of bot? | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On January 03 2019 07:35 Xamo wrote: This seems to be is more than a hack. The Barcode player: - Never misses an inject - Splits and micros lings, banes and queens at incredible speed, even when not required - Transforms lings into banes in the blink of an eye - Shows poor strategy/decision making. Did you just play DeepMind or TSTARBOT? Anyone else has played against this type of bot? That is something I had thought of. The APM is insanely high throughout the whole game for someone to just be using hacks for microing. They'd randomly hit like 3000 APM just doing base building stuff. | ||
YTMadnetics
Ireland51 Posts
On January 02 2019 21:30 watchlulu wrote: Lol, my opponent just had some sort of automatic splitting bot, as soon as I had Banelings, his lings went absolutely batshit crazy and he reached over 21 thousand APM. Here's the link to the Replay: https://drop.sc/replay/9389531 (Obvious Bot operating at around 5:30) Serral has returned | ||
SirPinky
United States525 Posts
https://drop.sc/replay/9471198 | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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SirPinky
United States525 Posts
Here is another user: Ares NA Server Beginning: No Scout 1 marine to defend into 3 CC (based on my opener) 6:46 Clicking into fog of war at BC's approaching his choke (sits there not moving his vision then locks them down at the perfect time) 9:14 goes right to my hidden CC that just started building 9:43 Goes right to BCs moving across the top of the map The list goes on. Blizzard please do something! I'm also never one to judge rank by APM because I am a fan of GoOdy but 130 APM is pretty low for his master status (and mine is already very low for my rank) - he/she must have SUPER game sense! https://drop.sc/replay/9908108 | ||
WGT-Baal
France3132 Posts
On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. .... This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly. Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not Show nested quote + On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote: On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote: On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer. The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off. Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating? To piss you off. I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. on your last post, there are also cases of legitimate players being screwed my the MMR system. I stopped playing during LotV when they didnt go through with the macro changes we had then and went the 12worker route instead, instead of doing 50-50 sc2 bw i went back to full bw. A month ago I ran into an old friend on bnet and he wanted to play sc2 2v2 so I did and after he left I thought ''oh well let s see how 1v1 goes". I went 7-0, utterely crushed poor folks with 40 apm, I felt so bad for them. And then my MMR rose to the point i play d3-d2 level players (which are way worse than hots diamond league level, or may be my style is better on the current maps or so outdated that the opponents just dont know how to respond, w/e) but i m still gold in my icon, because my MMR is "not stable yet". And when I win (gold icon vs d3-d2, I get flamed, reported, insulted, you name it, I ve seen it all. How many boring games do I have to go through? 20? 50? What about those poor souls I am playing in the meantime? and I m getting insulted too, like i m some smurf (or worse things). End result? I finally played 15games in lotv after over a year break, and I quit. I thought may be i d do 90% bw 10%sc2 to have fun with my friend once in a while but where s the fun there. Surely if I play 40 apm guys 4 games in a row while i hover around 150-200 with 5times their score at the end of the game the matchmaking should bump me up quickly instead of giving me the same guys over and over, 40 apm then 45, wow, amazing. But what do I look to my unfortunate opponents? a hacker, that s what (or a smurf, which isnt great either). on topic: every hacker should be banned, but at the same time every case should be observed fairly, and that s a lot of ressource, calling someone a hacker just because you lost (badly) does not help, as it creates more files to go through for no reason. | ||
-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On February 26 2019 11:20 WGT-Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote: On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. .... This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly. On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote: On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote: On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer. The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off. Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating? To piss you off. I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. on your last post, there are also cases of legitimate players being screwed my the MMR system. I stopped playing during LotV when they didnt go through with the macro changes we had then and went the 12worker route instead, instead of doing 50-50 sc2 bw i went back to full bw. A month ago I ran into an old friend on bnet and he wanted to play sc2 2v2 so I did and after he left I thought ''oh well let s see how 1v1 goes". I went 7-0, utterely crushed poor folks with 40 apm, I felt so bad for them. And then my MMR rose to the point i play d3-d2 level players (which are way worse than hots diamond league level, or may be my style is better on the current maps or so outdated that the opponents just dont know how to respond, w/e) but i m still gold in my icon, because my MMR is "not stable yet". And when I win (gold icon vs d3-d2, I get flamed, reported, insulted, you name it, I ve seen it all. How many boring games do I have to go through? 20? 50? What about those poor souls I am playing in the meantime? and I m getting insulted too, like i m some smurf (or worse things). End result? I finally played 15games in lotv after over a year break, and I quit. I thought may be i d do 90% bw 10%sc2 to have fun with my friend once in a while but where s the fun there. Surely if I play 40 apm guys 4 games in a row while i hover around 150-200 with 5times their score at the end of the game the matchmaking should bump me up quickly instead of giving me the same guys over and over, 40 apm then 45, wow, amazing. But what do I look to my unfortunate opponents? a hacker, that s what (or a smurf, which isnt great either). on topic: every hacker should be banned, but at the same time every case should be observed fairly, and that s a lot of ressource, calling someone a hacker just because you lost (badly) does not help, as it creates more files to go through for no reason. hi, ur post makes no sense. if u want to play vs people who dont have 45 apm i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? oh and edit: if ur mmr is in a different league (d3), but ur still in gold x, that is cuz of provisional MMR.... takes like... 30 games to get out of cuz u lose/gain -/+ 100~ per game..... so...i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ????? | ||
Dork_Templar
1 Post
On December 17 2018 15:08 xtorn wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2018 00:44 ggrrg wrote: I am always very sceptical of hacking claims, but given the comments I will make sure to check out the replay. Is it more blatant than this though? + Show Spoiler + https://youtu.be/boyZjC_mj68?t=466 AHAHAHAHAHAAHHA "gosu" my arse, interesting video Wow, I was wondering what shenanigans would happen. That blew me away. Absolutely stunning. | ||
SirPinky
United States525 Posts
I'm bumping this because I'm still seeing more and more of this openly cheating overt kind of play. Here is another user: Ares NA Server Beginning: No Scout 1 marine to defend into 3 CC (based on my opener) 6:46 Clicking into fog of war at BC's approaching his choke (sits there not moving his vision then locks them down at the perfect time) 9:14 goes right to my hidden CC that just started building 9:43 Goes right to BCs moving across the top of the map The list goes on. Blizzard please do something! I'm also never one to judge rank by APM because I am a fan of GoOdy but 130 APM is pretty low for his master status (and mine is already very low for my rank) - he/she must have SUPER game sense! https://drop.sc/replay/9908108 | ||
Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3132 Posts
On February 26 2019 12:28 -Kyo- wrote: Show nested quote + On February 26 2019 11:20 WGT-Baal wrote: On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote: On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. .... This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly. On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote: On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote: On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote: What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote: On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote: On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote: On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer. The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off. Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating? To piss you off. I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. on your last post, there are also cases of legitimate players being screwed my the MMR system. I stopped playing during LotV when they didnt go through with the macro changes we had then and went the 12worker route instead, instead of doing 50-50 sc2 bw i went back to full bw. A month ago I ran into an old friend on bnet and he wanted to play sc2 2v2 so I did and after he left I thought ''oh well let s see how 1v1 goes". I went 7-0, utterely crushed poor folks with 40 apm, I felt so bad for them. And then my MMR rose to the point i play d3-d2 level players (which are way worse than hots diamond league level, or may be my style is better on the current maps or so outdated that the opponents just dont know how to respond, w/e) but i m still gold in my icon, because my MMR is "not stable yet". And when I win (gold icon vs d3-d2, I get flamed, reported, insulted, you name it, I ve seen it all. How many boring games do I have to go through? 20? 50? What about those poor souls I am playing in the meantime? and I m getting insulted too, like i m some smurf (or worse things). End result? I finally played 15games in lotv after over a year break, and I quit. I thought may be i d do 90% bw 10%sc2 to have fun with my friend once in a while but where s the fun there. Surely if I play 40 apm guys 4 games in a row while i hover around 150-200 with 5times their score at the end of the game the matchmaking should bump me up quickly instead of giving me the same guys over and over, 40 apm then 45, wow, amazing. But what do I look to my unfortunate opponents? a hacker, that s what (or a smurf, which isnt great either). on topic: every hacker should be banned, but at the same time every case should be observed fairly, and that s a lot of ressource, calling someone a hacker just because you lost (badly) does not help, as it creates more files to go through for no reason. hi, ur post makes no sense. if u want to play vs people who dont have 45 apm i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? oh and edit: if ur mmr is in a different league (d3), but ur still in gold x, that is cuz of provisional MMR.... takes like... 30 games to get out of cuz u lose/gain -/+ 100~ per game..... so...i recommend getting ur mmr adjusted by playing more ????? It seems i wasn't clear or you read too fast. I was refering.ro deacon.frost part about people tanking to play 40 easy games. Yes i can play those 40games until my mmr stabilises but to the opponent i m facing how is it different from facing a smurf. If i have to play 30+ super easy games to get back to a decent level of opposition, it s exactly the same as tanking 50games then cruising at a lower mmr? The only difference is i dont do it on purpose, i m actively trying to get out of this range, but for my opponent it s the same. My point was the system takes too long to bump you up. In bw i dont face 5 f league players in my placements, it goes up fairly quickly. TLDR: "just play more noobs and crush them until you reach a good level" is exactly my point, to them it s the same as facing a smurf, and to me it s boring to do that for more than 10games. | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20149 Posts
130 APM is pretty low for his master status It really depends on the length of the game and the amount + type of spam that you do - for example, moving the camera in most of the main ways including camera hotkeys does not count as an action. People who don't spam or who spam w/ camera hotkeys can start out with like 40apm and climb well into the triple digits over time as there's more stuff to do in the game, while people who hotkey 2 probes and spam between them can float 1000apm for the early game and see that fall off a cliff as the actual game starts. Clicking 3-5 times to move an initial unit somewhere instead of just once with good mouse control also inflates APM | ||
getg00d
United States120 Posts
On January 10 2019 22:00 ZenithM wrote: The ling split 10K APM micro one is so ridiculous. Thanks for uploading on Youtube. Yes....all i can really say is wow...and also 'lel' | ||
BadHabits
Canada45 Posts
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BadHabits
Canada45 Posts
On January 02 2019 21:30 watchlulu wrote: Lol, my opponent just had some sort of automatic splitting bot, as soon as I had Banelings, his lings went absolutely batshit crazy and he reached over 21 thousand APM. Here's the link to the Replay: https://drop.sc/replay/9389531 (Obvious Bot operating at around 5:30) i've played the same thing, almost 2 months ago though and winter did a hacking investigation video on youtube about it | ||
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