Blizzard has announced that they are cancelling HGC and heroes of the dorm. So Heroes esports scene is basically dead.
Personally, i would be worried for SC2 esports. With all the negative news about how Blizzard management is changing to be more corporate and fixated on more profits than making good games, surely they must be looking at SC2 as well.
Over in the solar thread, we have people saying that there needs to be more support in developing the scene in korea. I would be glad if they will still sponsor GSL next season as i can't imagine that it makes any financial sense for them to invest even more money in it.
How about WCS? I would think that heroes would have been making more or at least similar money to SC2 with players buying skins and loot boxes and hgc still got cancelled.
SC2 was always the pet of Mike Morhime and now he's gone, and with what happened to hgc, i am seriously worried.
*Updated with tweets from Maynarde*
I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
This is very troubling, from what I've seen Blizzard had a policy to maintain high level production for its esports no matter the size of it's scene. With that gone, we should be really glad that sc2 had a such good year in 2018 because I don't think wcs would continue if that change happened after 2016/2017. If we still get wcs in 2019 you could argue that Serral literally saved the game lol.
Well, HotS was basically 100% funded by Blizzard, I mean they even had to pay salaries to players and teams... while WCS and GSL are heavily funded by Blizzard, all the other content (HSC, Kungfu and chinese cups, BSTV, Qlash, and a long etc) plus teams, proplayers, etc. are not. They are funded by sponsors and the community <3
They had to compete with Dota2 and LoL... SC2 has pretty much no competition in it's nitche. Also, SC2 viewership has grown like a solid 30%-40% in the past year...
Most important, SC2 in IEM 2019, as well as GSL qualifiers are confirmed.
What I mean is that SC2 and HotS situations are (were) very different from a business perspective aka investment-return (which is what matters the most for Activision-Blizzard right now)
Personally I do think WCS 2019 is gonna follow the same structure as in 2018, same stops, same prizes, etc. Ideally they would put a little bit of the HotS money into a "Code A" both in WCS and GSL circuits, even if it's online to save costs. But since this would be too good to be true , I'm happy with our current situation.
Hopefully SC2 can dodge Activision(blizzard)'s recent cutting costs policy but tbh I wouldn't be at all surprised if their support for the scene will shrink for next year and after.
Starcraft 2 is in a pretty unique position in the blizzard universe. When you see people on forums trash talking blizzard, they mention every game they have EXCEPT Starcraft. Most people don't think about the game very much, but Starcraft is a very well respected game, and people tend to separate it from the rest of Blizzard. In my opinion, SC2 is seen as a well respected franchise that takes an immense amount of skill but otherwise flies under the radar because it's pretty much the opposite of inducing outrage from a community. The game is what it is.
The reason I bring that up is because there have been no events that have bled our community in a long time. We're not bleeding users, we're not top post on reddit of people raging at this game. We had a very successful year and our game is on a great upswing right now. Blizzard may be going through a really hard time (Their stock has dropped from in the 80s in October down below 50 today), but you can't look at the trend of SC2 growing and getting more and more eyeballs and attention and love and think Blizzard would pull the plug on it.
Honestly, in a couple years if this trend persists, SC2 may be one of Blizzards flagship games again. I know there's a lot of reasons to be uncertain of the future, but I'm very optimistic that SC2 is going to be better than ever in the coming years. We had really damn good numbers for Starcraft this year, more people than ever are playing things like Co-Op, the Warchest is doing very well from what I've read, and 2019 is already confirmed to continue.
I was a really big player of Heroes for a long time, but the past 1.5 years or so I've played less and less - Before, I'd play 5-6 hours a day every day with my friends. Now, I play maybe 2 or 3 games with one friend before we get frustrated and stop playing. The game just isn't fun anymore and people stopped playing. queue times are insanely long. If you don't play hots, you may not understand. We were having insane queue times for complete stomps one way or the other - there just weren't enough players to give even games anymore. Starcraft 2 you can hit find match and get a game in under 1 minute and its a damn even game 99% of the time. This realistically had to happen to hots because it just didn't hit its mark :/
Well, SC and SC2 are only few good RTS games out there that people actually play and being heard of. So they survive for now. However, SC2 and HOTS share a lot in common so there are reasons to be worried. First of all, both esports scenes are carried by Blizzard. Blizzard basically sponsors the events and the prize pools. Some partners like IEM/DreamHack and AfreecaTV do host events but I assume the money are coming from Blizzard. Compared to CSGO, Valve sponsors 1 mil prize pool twice a year and the rest of like 20+ premier events are hosted by some other organizations and have nothing to with Valve. At some point, when Blizzard has some financial troubles, they will drop the financial support to certain games and SC2 will be next.
I mean let me be brutally honest here for a second. No companies will invest a lot of money in SC2 because it is the game of the past. There is a dedicated fanbase but practically no new players will jump in the game casually nor some new players want to join the scene competitively because the prize pool is too limited. How many times I heard people I met say things like "Oh you know how to play SC2. I played it like years ago but nowadays I play blah blah blah". Gaming industry quite often is all about the hot and trending new games. SC2 is just not one of them. I love SC2 but I play it because I like it and probably the only game I'm semi-decent at. If I want to play with a lot of people, I probably will play Fortnite or something because everyone seems to play it these days.
Let me put a couple of things out there. HGC was expensive, VERY expensive. Blizzard paid for: the salaries of every qualified team in every region, staffing and production costs for league play tournaments that played year round on weekends in 3 major regions, 2 BIG LAN tournaments per year, and prize pools for all of the above.
All for a game that had a mediocre size of a playerbase and a very dismal overall viewership considering that it was competing directly for views with DOTA2 and LoL.
Now compare that with SC2 that has partnership deals, Warchests which directly support the prize pools of various tournaments, no salaried players, and a much larger and more dedicated viewership base.
It's not comparable. HGC was fun for sure, but it was ultimately completely unsustainable if you paid even the slightest bit of attention. In a lot of ways I think Overwatch league has a lot in common with it in a bad way. Overwatch League is enormous, the amount of resources that gets poured into it is insane, and yet Overwatch as a game has already hit and come down from its peak. The massive esports scene isn't causing the game's popularity to GROW. That isn't sustainable without more third party sponsorship support from outside companies.
The worst case scenario for SC2 is that the number of tournaments shrinks, The tournaments in question are all single standalone events with Blizzcon being a culmination event that uses points.That wasn't how HoTS operated. HoTS operated a single yearwide League that all was all paid for in every part by Blizzard.
I'm not worried about whether or not SC2 will have a competitive scene next year. It will have one, the only question is "how large?"
I think the game is in a pretty good state right now, viewership has been much better than the past years and we have a lot of cool personalities playing the game. I hope SC2 will be bigger next year, but that's more a wish. But it wouldn't surprise me.
Man, when the guys on The Pylons joked about welcoming back any casters who want to come back from heroes, I really didn't expect this news to be released on the next day.
SC2 will be fine for 2019 though, not sure what happens after wc3 reforged though. No game is safe in the new Activision Blizzard. But for now sc2 has little competition as the premiere 1v1 esport and no competition in RTS.
On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote: Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2.
Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
To me this means any Blizzard-Activision esport other than Overwatch or Call of Duty could be considered expendable. I hope I'm wrong, but I have my doubts the WCS will live beyond 2020.
On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote: Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2.
Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
Your point may be legitimate but "logical business decisions" is probably not going to be high up on the concern of hardcore esports fans on the most hardcore sc2 esports site.
On point, I can't help but think that without sc2 esports the playerbase would cut tremendously. I may be wrong about that, but esports continues to inject new energy and life and hype, and pretty sure the playerbase would be at 10% one year after any decision to completely cut sc2 is made.
SC2 should be good at least for next year. It's fair to say that Heroes competitive scene was too big for it's own good. Sc2 is less bad in this extend, the cutback we got between 2013 and 2016 /17 turn out to be beneficial, if Blizz tried to keep the scene Dreamhack and IEM circuit running we may have been the one on the chopping block.
It will be interesting to see how the OW League does in the next few years. Lol, Dota and CSGO already have big infrastructure in Esport, but the way they are organize make it possible to make cutback if needed. OW is in a very tricky situation where the franchise system make it that Blizz-Activision kind of has an obligation to put as much money as needed to make it a success. I feel like if OW league number are not up to what they wish it may hurt the whole Blizzard esport scene.
Actually I think them deciding to cut HGC shoud mean it's more likely for them NOT to cut Sc2 as well! Moreover, the viewership is on the rise and a good amount of big tournaments aren't directly funded by Blizzard, I guess we could feel safe(I hope I'm right).
On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote: Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2.
Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
Your point may be legitimate but "logical business decisions" is probably not going to be high up on the concern of hardcore esports fans on the most hardcore sc2 esports site.
Especially since ever since the Diablo Immortal announcement there's been this "FUCK BLIZZARD!" circlejerk on reddit and other parts of the internet that has reached completely irrational levels of hyperbole.
Not saying there's no reason to feel some level of frustration, but it has been blown way overboard lately.
It is a fact that hots hasnt changed for the best for the last year or so and a lot of people (myself included) stopped playing. So keeping an expensive event with a dwindling scene doesnt make much sense. It also isnt very fun to watch anymore either (again, peronal opinion) Now when i dont play bw, i just play overwatch for fun or, very rarely, some sc2 2v2 with a friend who is a bardcore sc2 lover. But the sc2 population is fairly stable and finding 2v2 games is fairly quick, which is impressive. Individual games also have the advantage of requiring less logistics to organise. So we ll see what 2019 brings but the demise of the hgc might actually free up some funds for sc2 (and for a 2v2 bw ladder? One can dream)
On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote: Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2.
Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
This makes sense, kinda. But back in the BW days, there wasn't Warchest or skins or announcer packs to allows company to invest into esport. Now it exists. And apparently SC2 players are willing to buy a lot of stuff to Blizzard if it means giving money to players in the end. So I feel like it is quite safe for now
I think it's alright to worry about SC2 right now after this and other + Show Spoiler +
*cough* Diablo *cough*
things going on with Blizz, but, as others have pointed out, Heroes and SC2 are very different situations. I'm not worried, things are looking pret-ty good for SC2 from where I'm standing. We'll see how 2019 goes for WCS, Korean players, and everything else from HSC to weekly cups to daily streamers.
It can turn into an avalanche 'cause people, gamers, teams and sponsors from HGC will try to dive into D2. Trying to be far away from Blizzard-Activision. There is no trust. The unstable situation. It's a bad sign.
SCII's position isn't fundamentally that different from HotS's and nobody expected HotS to be dropped quite that brutally, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at the very least some downscaling for SCII unfortunately.
On December 15 2018 01:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote: SCII's position isn't fundamentally that different from HotS's and nobody expected HotS to be dropped quite that brutally, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at the very least some downscaling for SCII unfortunately.
Very different instead. Sc2 is #1 RTS and it's on the rise(again) whereas HoTS, despite nobody expected it to be dropped, is just nowhere near LoL and DoTA2.
On December 15 2018 01:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote: SCII's position isn't fundamentally that different from HotS's and nobody expected HotS to be dropped quite that brutally, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at the very least some downscaling for SCII unfortunately.
Very different instead. Sc2 is #1 RTS and it's on the rise(again) whereas HoTS, despite nobody expected it to be dropped, is just nowhere near LoL and DoTA2.
It did just have its best year in terms of tournament viewership but that didn't matter because as I said in my previous post, the fundamental way they were doing the e-sport side of things was too expensive to maintain.
I imagine we'll see a return to some kind of competitive aspect at some point, but much smaller in scale. No year round league like they were trying with HGC.
WCS was better off than HGC, but how do we know that it's SO significantly better off that it's safe? We don't know how Blizzard evaluates the success of their esports leagues. Perhaps SC2 is safe, or perhaps the difference between SC2 and HotS is so minor as to be imperceptible to whoever makes these decisions at Blizzard ('why are we wasting money on anything that won't be OWL-big?'). All that goes to say we don't know enough about how Blizzard came to this HGC decision to draw any conclusions about how it relates to SC2.
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
IMO this cancellation really puts blizzard in a bad light. HGC was still in the spotlight at blizzcon and teams/players/casters had zero idea it was going to get cancelled.
I have read about teams/players claiming that they have been trying to contact blizzard about hgc 2019 and was met with blanket silence and only knew about the cancellation like the rest of us. That to me is really a low blow.
SC2 might have increased viewership numbers these year but compared to the popular titles, i don't feel safe not knowing how blizzard would view it as financially viable or not.
I wouldn't worry too much. Obviously WCS and GSL are nice but if Blizzard pulls esports support, there will still be people playing so you can find matches if you want to play and still people streaming and putting together tournaments if you want to watch.
I think it's only the people who have bet their financial security on these tournaments existing who should worry about it.
On December 15 2018 03:00 NonY wrote: I wouldn't worry too much. Obviously WCS and GSL are nice but if Blizzard pulls esports support, there will still be people playing so you can find matches if you want to play and still people streaming and putting together tournaments if you want to watch.
I think it's only the people who have bet their financial security on these tournaments existing who should worry about it.
Serral's plan is to keep winning for 5 more years! Gotta keep it going that long at least!
On December 14 2018 19:15 MockHamill wrote: Well if SC2 e-sport gets cancelled, we know that Blizzard is dead and has been replaced by Activison.
My reaction then would be to boycott every single Activision game for the rest of my life and convince everyone I know to do the same.
But until that happens, I will continue to enjoy SC2.
Why? if investing into esports doesn't gain them enough it's the logical business decision to stop investing into it. They are under no obligation to fund sc2 esports. This may sound pretty harsh but if sc2 can't survive on its own without dev money then maybe it doesn't deserve to exist at its current size. Devs investing into esports is a new trend after all - back in the CS/BW days devs investing into esports was unheard of.
I agree, in the end games are products of their respective companies and they can ultimately do with them what they deem best for their businesses - which will probably always be the fundamental difference between esports and regular sports. At the end of the day you can still go outside and shoot some balls or go play soccer with your friends without having to rely on a company's/association's goodwill. So while esports emerged from the excitement of players/enthusiasts being able to compete with others in a structured league environment and/or watch people play the game they love at a much higher level than themselves, by today's standards it's ultimately just a marketing strategy. And that makes all funding for esports marketing costs which should absolutely paid for by the company trying to promote their game, but instead now they're trying to outsource parts of these costs to the customers in the form of Warchests in SC2 or the Compendium in Dota 2, just to further inflate already ridiculous prize pools instead of nurturing and maintaining a stable structure, that's what I have a problem with.
I mean, I think I kinda get it, it's a setup for an "exciting" narrative and the majority of people always look out for the bigger numbers, but still maybe it's about time to rethink some of the current "best" business practices in (online) gaming and consider where it all came from in the first place.
Edit: Also the way they've handled the cancellation can be considered ...scummy, to say the least.
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
Yeah, I totally agree with this statement. Even though to me it seems like SC2 is a lock (especially with the Serral stuff) you just can't be careful enough when it comes to CEOs and shareholders.
The only good thing Blizzard is doing these days is making the old classics come back(SC:Remastered, WC3 Reforged, WoW Classic). I don't care about anything else from Blizzard, and haven't done for a long time. I'll be enjoying the old classics for as many years as I can, and then if they make something good again I will be incredibly surprised, but I have 0% expectations for it.
In any case, it should worry anyone that they put such a nuclear option (abrupt cancellation of esports without prior warning to participants) on the table.
Yeah, I totally agree with this statement. Even though to me it seems like SC2 is a lock (especially with the Serral stuff) you just can't be careful enough when it comes to CEOs and shareholders.
On a kinda positive note, up to now Blizz and Activision have been pretty good in keeping the server and the matchmaking system on the old games. I know COD6 server are still up and running (at least on PC), so even if the esport scene lose support from the company there is still a way to have grass root competition.
Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.
Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.
On December 15 2018 04:13 Doink wrote: Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.
Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.
This same reasoning is why I know games like Smash Bros. Melee, Counter-Strike and Street Fighter aren't going anywhere.
They've stood the test of time because they're actually super legit competitive games that people actually care about as spectators. They're not going anywhere.
This marketing push that we've seen in the last 5-6 years to turn every new game into an esport is a bubble that can't be sustained forever. Eventually hype for a new game dies down, people move on to the new trendy. The loyal and competitive fans stick around but if there's no casual base to watch the games and buy the microtransactions then the game can't afford to keep paying out prize pools and player salaries. That's just how it is.
Not everything is meant to last as an esport. I don't see Overwatch lasting, I DEFINITELY don't see Fortnite lasting, and eventually I think one of DoTA2 and LoL is going to eat the other one, it's just a matter of how long that takes.
On December 15 2018 04:13 Doink wrote: Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.
Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.
This same reasoning is why I know games like Smash Bros. Melee, Counter-Strike and Street Fighter aren't going anywhere.
They've stood the test of time because they're actually super legit competitive games that people actually care about as spectators. They're not going anywhere.
This marketing push that we've seen in the last 5-6 years to turn every new game into an esport is a bubble that can't be sustained forever. Eventually hype for a new game dies down, people move on to the new trendy. The loyal and competitive fans stick around but if there's no casual base to watch the games and buy the microtransactions then the game can't afford to keep paying out prize pools and player salaries. That's just how it is.
Not everything is meant to last as an esport. I don't see Overwatch lasting, I DEFINITELY don't see Fortnite lasting, and eventually I think one of DoTA2 and LoL is going to eat the other one, it's just a matter of how long that takes.
I agree with your sentiment that most game won't last as esport, I am a bit more pessimistic about older game lasting, sure if a game had at once a solid esport base people will still play it, but let's be honest we can't really say there is an "esport" scene around Quake/Unreal tournament or BW and WC3 outside of Korea/China, sure there are tournaments but no professional scene. Melee is kind of a strange case because the actual pro scene isn't that much older then SC2 it was pretty dead before it's return at Evo.
Lol, CSGO and Overwatch are gonna be the big tell in my opinion, it's gonna be interesting to see if they have become to big to just go quietly into the night. BW was the only other case where we could have seen if an esport can really stand the test of time but the pro scene got his head cut of.
When HOTS 1st came out, Blizzard thru tons of money into it, trying to make it be an instant esport. Imo those types of artificial growth never really fully maturate that way. It needs to happen organically from the fans & from the ground up. So hearing this news now is no surprise to me. Perhaps only that it took them so long.
As for SC2, its for the most part an 8 year old game & the writing is on the wall for sure. But like others have said i don't think we should worry about it. If you care, simply do all you can to show your support. Its that support for SC that made everything possible in the 1st place. Play the game, watch your favorite SC2 streams & enjoy it while it lasts cuz nothings ever guaranteed to last.
On December 15 2018 04:13 Doink wrote: Imo this isn't troubling or anything. Heroes was a small competitor in an already slowly dying genre while SC2 is the most popular RTS nowadays and has no competition.
Many of those casual players switching to mobas when LoL became popular back then already jumped on the next hype train. Casuals will keep switching games while SC2/RTS has a core fanbase which doesn't play casual games.
This same reasoning is why I know games like Smash Bros. Melee, Counter-Strike and Street Fighter aren't going anywhere.
They've stood the test of time because they're actually super legit competitive games that people actually care about as spectators. They're not going anywhere.
This marketing push that we've seen in the last 5-6 years to turn every new game into an esport is a bubble that can't be sustained forever. Eventually hype for a new game dies down, people move on to the new trendy. The loyal and competitive fans stick around but if there's no casual base to watch the games and buy the microtransactions then the game can't afford to keep paying out prize pools and player salaries. That's just how it is.
Not everything is meant to last as an esport. I don't see Overwatch lasting, I DEFINITELY don't see Fortnite lasting, and eventually I think one of DoTA2 and LoL is going to eat the other one, it's just a matter of how long that takes.
I agree with your sentiment that most game won't last as esport, I am a bit more pessimistic about older game lasting, sure if a game had at once a solid esport base people will still play it, but let's be honest we can't really say there is an "esport" scene around Quake/Unreal tournament or BW and WC3 outside of Korea/China, sure there are tournaments but no professional scene. Melee is kind of a strange case because the actual pro scene isn't that much older then SC2 it was pretty dead before it's return at Evo.
Lol, CSGO and Overwatch are gonna be the big tell in my opinion, it's gonna be interesting to see if they have become to big to just go quietly into the night. BW was the only other case where we could have seen if an esport can really stand the test of time but the pro scene got his head cut of.
I think a vast majority of Smash fans are hoping that Smash Ultimate can be good enough to finally pick up the torch that Melee wants to pass. Brawl wasn't and Smash 4 was decent for a little while but ultimately failed due to the unpopularity of the WII U among other things.
Starcraft 2, despite whatever Brood War players might want to say, DID generate a ton of new interest in the Brood War scene for Western Audiences or at least it revitalized it. Some mistakes early on prevented it from really catching on in Korea the way Brood War did but it definitely created a western Starcraft esports scene.
CS:GO picked up the torch for Counter-Strike and brought it to the new modern E-Sports era.
Street Fighter and other fighting games are self explanatory with all of their versions and updates.
I don't mean that EVERY SINGLE VERSION of EVERY SINGLE GOOD ESPORT GAME is going to last forever, but the title and legacy of the original good version does create a lasting loyalty that other games just coming on to the scene have to build fresh for themselves.
Games like Brawl and SC2 have proven that if the game isn't up to what the fans expect then they don't stay attached to them (to varying degrees), but they have shown that the initial excitement is at least there which is a big important part of making an esport popular.
That's more or less what I mean. People are going to continue to care about these titles because they have history and actual fan loyalty that goes beyond what version they are on. Games like HoTS, don't have that. They have to build it for themselves and if they can't they don't survive,
HotS was basically dead on arrival because of Dota and LoL already owning all of the market share in the genre, making it impossible for HotS to get a sustainable market share. SC2 is pretty much the only PC RTS that still has developer supported tournaments aside from BW's KSL, and is actually growing, so there isn't too much of a reason for Blizzard to abandon all hope for the game. Then again, there might not be enough loot crates in SC2 to keep the game profitable enough to justify its existence to Activision.
Here's to hopping that Mike Morhaime didn't tell anyone about Starcraft when he left and everyone at Blizz just forgot about us. It will be our little secret just like how the world is reminded once a year at Blizzcon that WOW has a competitive arena mode and then everyone goes on with their life forgetting to shut it down.
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote: maynarde tweets
ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.
If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.
if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.
Yeah, I think SC2 will be fine, but I understand people being paranoid. I mean come on, it's sort of the natural reaction when another esports game by the same company gets completely gutted without warning after being told their esports league would be "just as well or even more funded."
Based on the fact that it seems the Heroes staff at Blizzcon thought HGC would continue, It's not a huge leap to say that SC2 staff was also unaware.
I hope this just encourages Blizzard SC2 staff to release an announcement sooner rather than later, whatever the announcement is.
just because the sc2 esports team has a plan for wcs doesn't mean the higher-ups will sign off on it
Actually, I do think that this is good news for SCII. We've heard nothing so far from Blizzard themselves but I don't think they'd made plans if they did not intend on repeating 2018. Especially since it was the most successful year SCII had in quite some time.
I expect SC2 esports to stick around for another year. However, I expect a scale-down for GSL. Probably only 2 seasons and maybe 2 Super Tournaments. Or they just have 3 seasons of GSL and cut ST completely.
For WCS, hopefully it will be the same like last year (No Austin but Dallas this time based on DH schedule for 2019). However, I can see they cut it down to 3. One US, one Canada and one in EU. Plus IEM Katowice is global.
Blizzard has been under a lot of financial pressures. They will scale back on esports no matter what. Just hope they don't cut SC2 esports completely like they did with Heroes. I still keep my hope seeing soO winning GSL.
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote: maynarde tweets
ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.
If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.
if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.
That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote: maynarde tweets
ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.
If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.
if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.
That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.
Which is what he means. At blizzcon Heroes staff told Heroes players that HGC would continue. Starting about 15 days ago, there was complete silence. The SC2 community summit also happened at Blizzcon, so the point he's making is that if Heroes staff might have been unaware of big changes coming, it's possible the same is true for SC2 staff.
Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.
On December 15 2018 10:48 MrWayne wrote: Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.
IEM Katowice is a global event that is rather unique and has its own structure. The reason is because it is hosted by a third party AKA ESL. They can do whatever they want. Blizzard may sponsor some prize money but even that ESL can take care of the prize pool given it is a flagship event for IEM. If WCS and GSL are shutdown, ESL may still want to host a farewell event for SC2. Frankly, it may be even a marketing genius move as SC2 fans will flood to Poland to see pro SC2 players for the last time which makes IEM Katowice even hotter. It is already a CSGO Major event as it is.
On December 15 2018 10:48 MrWayne wrote: Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.
IEM Katowice is a global event that is rather unique and has its own structure. The reason is because it is hosted by a third party AKA ESL. They can do whatever they want. Blizzard may sponsor some prize money but even that ESL can take care of the prize pool given it is a flagship event for IEM. If WCS and GSL are shutdown, ESL may still want to host a farewell event for SC2. Frankly, it may be even a marketing genius move as SC2 fans will flood to Poland to see pro SC2 players for the last time which makes IEM Katowice even hotter. It is already a CSGO Major event as it is.
GSL and all the WCS stops are also hosted by third party organisation AKA Dream Hack and Afreeca tv. As this ESL guy said, WCS has way better scalability than HGC.
On December 15 2018 10:48 MrWayne wrote: Guys there will be a WCS in 2019, ESL already announced Katowice and it still has the same 250k prize money as last year. Nobody is financing such a big tournament and simultaneously shutting down all the other tournaments.
IEM Katowice is a global event that is rather unique and has its own structure. The reason is because it is hosted by a third party AKA ESL. They can do whatever they want. Blizzard may sponsor some prize money but even that ESL can take care of the prize pool given it is a flagship event for IEM. If WCS and GSL are shutdown, ESL may still want to host a farewell event for SC2. Frankly, it may be even a marketing genius move as SC2 fans will flood to Poland to see pro SC2 players for the last time which makes IEM Katowice even hotter. It is already a CSGO Major event as it is.
GSL and all the WCS stops are also hosted by third party organisation AKA Dream Hack and Afreeca tv. As this ESL guy said, WCS has way better scalability than HGC.
I know GSL and WCS are hosted by Afreeca and DreamHack. For GSL, Blizzard is literally the title sponsor and they carry GSL financially while AfreecaTV doing production. Without Blizzard, AfreecaTV will not host GSL. Just look at SPOTV, they dropped SSL when Blizzard dropped the funding and they couldn't find any sponsors. SSL only happened in 2017 because JinAir sponsored. I don't think Blizzard provided anything for SPOTV during 2017. Same can be said for DreamHack. Blizzard basically picks 4 events out of the whole DH series and host SC2 events. I doubt DreamHack will host SC2 if Blizzard drops the funding. IEM Katowice is often announced before Blizzard officially announces WCS. It is almost like ESL wants to host the event independently and Blizzard just adds the event into the WCS schedule. Maybe some support in term of prize pool but as I said, Katowice is sponsored by a lot of big names so ESL can handle the SC2 prize pool if needed.
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote: maynarde tweets
ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.
If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.
if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.
That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.
Blizzard employees spoke to Kala just days earlier. UNless he is lying about that. I doubt he is. Its more likely these Blizzard employees sincerely believed what they were saying to Kala. And then someone way above their management level changed plans. This is what happens when you get a new CEO man.
Haven't you ever worked at a place where a new CEO takeover occurs? Its standard for everyone to think and say 1 thing.. and the CEO says "not true any more .. this is what we're doing"
Richard Lewis just talked about this on his stream. Blizzard hots esports devs got the message 5 days ahead of the blog post. (signed NDA, moved to other departments) Some blizzard friendly press was informed but only reported when the news dropped.
To me its crazy how positive the sc2 community still is, sc2 on its own is below hots in terms of average viewership (last 30 days). Even after all the hype, new patch etc. ("good news") https://sullygnome.com/viewers/30/watchedgames
On its own, nobody will pick this game and host tournaments anymore. Lets hope for an announcement soon, 1 more year?!
On December 16 2018 00:54 ionONE wrote: Richard Lewis just talked about this on his stream. Blizzard hots esports devs got the message 5 days ahead of the blog post. (signed NDA, moved to other departments) Some blizzard friendly press was informed but only reported when the news dropped.
To me its crazy how positive the sc2 community still is, sc2 on its own is below hots in terms of average viewership (last 30 days). Even after all the hype, new patch etc. ("good news") https://sullygnome.com/viewers/30/watchedgames
On its own, nobody will pick this game and host tournaments anymore. Lets hope for an announcement soon, 1 more year?!
Did he say if he knows anything about other blizzard esports games?
On December 16 2018 00:54 ionONE wrote: Richard Lewis just talked about this on his stream. Blizzard hots esports devs got the message 5 days ahead of the blog post. (signed NDA, moved to other departments) Some blizzard friendly press was informed but only reported when the news dropped.
To me its crazy how positive the sc2 community still is, sc2 on its own is below hots in terms of average viewership (last 30 days). Even after all the hype, new patch etc. ("good news") https://sullygnome.com/viewers/30/watchedgames
On its own, nobody will pick this game and host tournaments anymore. Lets hope for an announcement soon, 1 more year?!
Did he say if he knows anything about other blizzard esports games?
As long as revenue was growing Morhaime was permitted a host of pet projects which turned out to be money burning firepits. Activision led the way in lengthening the development cycles of CoD and other games while EA stuck to brutal annualized launches. Activision permitted the cancellation of two very long term Blizzard projects in SC:Ghost and Titan. There were probably several more.
Activision has under written plenty of innovation within the industry. Activision is all right and Bobby Kotick is an excellent long term planner guy.
Via Brack, Kotick will re-focus Blizzard. That includes telling Blizzard to stop with its bizarre social engineering initiatives and focus on what makes profit: making games.
On December 16 2018 01:59 Xain0n wrote: Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?
Patrolling youtube and other social media outlets for unapproved words and phrases so they can ban players from BNet is way beyond the scope of this company. Especially considering the # of different cultures the company pedals its games.
Blizzard needs fix it own communication problems before wandering around in the wilderness of social media pointing the finger at its customers.
On December 16 2018 01:59 Xain0n wrote: Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?
Patrolling youtube and other social media outlets for unapproved words and phrases so they can ban players from BNet is way beyond the scope of this company. Especially considering the # of different cultures the company pedals its games.
Blizzard needs fix it own communication problems before wandering around in the wilderness of social media pointing the finger at its customers.
Too true, unfortunately this is the same company that's said such patronising things as "you think you want that but you don't" and "don't you people have phones?", or who could forget "the technology isn't there yet". It doesn't seem like communication with its customers/fans is too high up the priority tree.
Tbh I came back to SC2 in 2018 after a 2/3 year break because it was declining on the esports side and in the direction that LOTV was going just before release. I am glad I came back because the game is in a good state now I feel and the scene is going strong, so I would not worry about this.
On December 16 2018 01:59 Xain0n wrote: Supporting esports proscene is bizarre social engineering?
Patrolling youtube and other social media outlets for unapproved words and phrases so they can ban players from BNet is way beyond the scope of this company. Especially considering the # of different cultures the company pedals its games.
Blizzard needs fix it own communication problems before wandering around in the wilderness of social media pointing the finger at its customers.
Too true, unfortunately this is the same company that's said such patronising things as "you think you want that but you don't" and "don't you people have phones?", or who could forget "the technology isn't there yet". It doesn't seem like communication with its customers/fans is too high up the priority tree.
I am more and more convince that the Nintendo strategy of pre-recording all your shit and never allow for direct interaction between the company and the fan is the best way to go.
Noticed I'm quoted a few times in the OP, good! It means NOTHING for WCS in 2019.
The only thing similar about HGC and WCS is that they're both run by Blizzard, WCS has been kicking goals in 2018 and will be just fine in 2019.
The only thing that the HGC announcement concerns me with is the way it was handled. I just hope the people at Blizzard / Activision that made the final decision learns a lesson from the outcry and pain they've caused in the Heroes community.
We want WCS and SC2 / SC esports in general to be treated as well as possible looking way down the line at 2020/21/22, whether it grows or shrinks in interest, just grow or shrink the investment with it. Don't just take it out behind a shed and shoot it before giving it all you got.
On December 16 2018 09:47 Maynarde wrote: It means NOTHING for WCS in 2019.
i think the cancellation announcement for HGC means WCS is safe this year. I can't see Blizzard/ATVI "drip feeding" multiple cancellations.
When companies issue layoffs they don't lay off 5 people a day, every day for a month. They give all the bad news all at once and lay off 150 people on one day and try to put it behind them and move on. I can't see Blizzard announcing the end of WCS a few days or weeks after HGC cancellation. If WCS were to be axed for 2019 Blizzard would announce everything all at once. WCS and HGC would both get the axe on the same day.
So I think the HGC bad news is good news for WCS.
Now whether or not there are cutbacks to WCS, well, that is a completely separate question. Now Blizzard is in a position to issue substantial cutbacks with the rebuttal to any complaining being "hey at least WCS still exists, unlike HGC, so shut up and smile boys"
Total speculation: I imagine SC2 has a year left. I do not see them funding a game in a similar financial state any longer than that. There are no vanguards left. Blizzard has seemingly lost its autonomy to Activision. I don't see Blizz people knowingly telling HGC teams at Blizzcon that there would be an 2019 season with similar funding, having trailers of Heroes, etc. This means they did not make the call. They also have 'more unannounced projects than ever' I do not see how they are going to keep funding WCS once these are put into public view. (It also shows they are not the same company with the same dev cycles as before. They are spreading their resources a lot. This definitely makes me pessimistic about the quality of what is coming next).
It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Personally, i would be worried for SC2 esports. With all the negative news about how Blizzard management is changing to be more corporate and fixated on more profits than making good games, surely they must be looking at SC2 as well.
You mean like a shitty card game with overwhelming marketing? A shitty TF2? A shitty dota? A shitty diablo?
Back then you could blindly buy any blizzard game, they were redefining the highest standard for PC games. They're just another big company now.
I also strongly dislike esport being pushed. Sure it's more convenient to have readily accessible competitive game but it's too accessible. Pubs used to be pubs, now ladder games are like a WCS grand final for some raging nerds and the "casual" (as they call this option) games are just people willingly trolling. It was better when we had a sort of wall to access competitive game, like creating a stack on IRC, garena, subscribing to ESL or whatever. Ladder games would be competitive but without life at stake and actual tryhard environment usually involved well behaved people because it took some effort to organise it and if they were dick no one would play with them again.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Really ? I liked Khaldor back in the day but don't have a clue of what he is doing now? any news, ?
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Really ? I liked Khaldor back in the day but don't have a clue of what he is doing now? any news, ?
He went all in on HotS, both solocasting stuff and being hired as a commentator. He could possibly stay with HotS and cater whatever following is left or just leave and work with another game.
It is not the birthright of anybody to work with e-sports either. I am sure both players and broadcaster know dramatic things can happen.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Really ? I liked Khaldor back in the day but don't have a clue of what he is doing now? any news, ?
He went all in on HotS, both solocasting stuff and being hired as a commentator. He could possibly stay with HotS and cater whatever following is left or just leave and work with another game.
It is not the birthright of anybody to work with e-sports either. I am sure both players and broadcaster know dramatic things can happen.
I'm really surprised by how ineptly this was handled. I feel the dramatic nature of this announcement has substantial intangible costs in terms of their reputation. They could have scaled back HGC and more gradually (and quietly) shrank the Heroes team and no one would have batted an eyelash. It would have cost them a bit more, but it would have saved them all the bad press. As it is, there are negative articles posted on every major gaming website, and it reinforces the narrative that Blizzard is going downhill. Seems like a PR blunder.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Really ? I liked Khaldor back in the day but don't have a clue of what he is doing now? any news, ?
He went all in on HotS, both solocasting stuff and being hired as a commentator. He could possibly stay with HotS and cater whatever following is left or just leave and work with another game.
It is not the birthright of anybody to work with e-sports either. I am sure both players and broadcaster know dramatic things can happen.
He said he would be going into WC3 casting now.
He has been focusing WC3 before the news even came out (basically after BlizzCon). So I think he will be fine.
On December 15 2018 09:03 sneakyfox wrote: maynarde tweets
ya, problem is HOTS community members were issued guarantees HotD 2019 and HGC 2019 were happening during Blizzcon. Look what ended up happening.
If some financial overlord several management layers above all these Blizzard employees decides the funding for WCS is cut... its over.
if people are feeling paranoid... let 'em... its justified.
That is not true. Blizzard has been silent on HGC since BlizzCon based on all tweets from HOTS players that I saw. The players and team owners have been asking about HGC since after BlizzCon given Blizzard didn't release any confirmation regarding HGC 2019. They keep saying they would release information soon which was eventually a shutdown. The players and teams did speculate a scale-down of some sort but didn't expect a full shutdown. They thought HGC would last for another year.
Blizzard employees spoke to Kala just days earlier. UNless he is lying about that. I doubt he is. Its more likely these Blizzard employees sincerely believed what they were saying to Kala. And then someone way above their management level changed plans. This is what happens when you get a new CEO man.
Haven't you ever worked at a place where a new CEO takeover occurs? Its standard for everyone to think and say 1 thing.. and the CEO says "not true any more .. this is what we're doing"
I'm NOT saying Kala was lying but he never specified which Blizzard employees or "high-up" people he was talking to. Some random community manager's words generally mean nothing these days. They could just say some stuff that they thought might happen. Unless he heard from the CEO himself, then what he heard was just "he said she said". Frankly, by the wording "if not more support coming this year", I could already tell whoever talked to Kala was just bullsh*ting. Even pro HOTS players thought they might have one more year at best given there is no growth in HOTS scene anymore. Some pro players already switched to other games a year ago. Blizzard makes it very clear that they focus heavily on OW so "more support" to the game that has no growth doesn't even sound plausible.
Anyway, regarding SC2, I feel Blizzard should announce something this coming week given it is their tradition to announce details of coming-up year the week before Xmas. Fingers crossed for SC2. I hope for another year but if things go south, I wouldn't be surprised.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Really ? I liked Khaldor back in the day but don't have a clue of what he is doing now? any news, ?
He went all in on HotS, both solocasting stuff and being hired as a commentator. He could possibly stay with HotS and cater whatever following is left or just leave and work with another game.
It is not the birthright of anybody to work with e-sports either. I am sure both players and broadcaster know dramatic things can happen.
He said he would be going into WC3 casting now.
Ok thanks all of you. I'd like to see him cast some sc2 again
Morhaime knew this was coming a few weeks before BlizzCon. He did not want to run around shaking hands with a smile plastered on his face telling everyone how great everything was at Blizzard during BlizzCon knowing HGC, HotD and Heroes would be cut.
So he quit. He made damn sure in his farewell statement he had been relegated to "Blizzard Fan Status" and had zero decision making abilities.
Mike Morhaime is the greatest. That sad look on Mike's face at Blizzcon was because he was sad for the fans because he knew this was coming. He was not sad because he lost his position at Blizzard.. he didn't care. I saw Morhaime standing beside a building he bought in the 2000s for Blizzard to work in. It was a celebration ceremony for Blizzard. The guy bought a fucking giant building worth millions and he must've had $100 worth of clothes on. What a guy. damn...
To Blizzard I say : " you called down the thunder .... now reap the whirlwind "
On December 17 2018 00:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Morhaime knew this was coming a few weeks before BlizzCon. He did not want to run around shaking hands with a smile plastered on his face telling everyone how great everything was at Blizzard during BlizzCon knowing HGC, HotD and Heroes would be cut.
So he quit. He made damn sure in his farewell statement he had been relegated to "Blizzard Fan Status" and had zero decision making abilities.
Mike Morhaime is the greatest.
To Blizzard I say : " you called down the thunder .... now reap the whirlwind "
I don't know about you, but that was the most awkward hand off between Morhaime and Brack .. I knew it was the end of the Blizzard we knew and the beginning of major changes. so here we go! Hold on tight!
On December 17 2018 00:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Morhaime knew this was coming a few weeks before BlizzCon. He did not want to run around shaking hands with a smile plastered on his face telling everyone how great everything was at Blizzard during BlizzCon knowing HGC, HotD and Heroes would be cut.
So he quit. He made damn sure in his farewell statement he had been relegated to "Blizzard Fan Status" and had zero decision making abilities.
Mike Morhaime is the greatest.
To Blizzard I say : " you called down the thunder .... now reap the whirlwind "
I don't know about you, but that was the most awkward hand off between Morhaime and Brack .. I knew it was the end of the Blizzard we knew and the beginning of major changes. so here we go! Hold on tight!
They knew it was the end of Blizzard too. the question is .. did you know.. that they knew.
Sc2 has a very stable player and fanbase and now its even on the rise. Its the ultimate esport for 1v1 games and probably best RTS since forever. It has such a histroy that it cant be compared to Hots imo. Canceling SC2 events would make a huge scandal, blizzard might think twice before doing so.
I agree I think SC2 is fine, I was kinda dissapointed in this as well but you know, Dota2 and LoL are on the decline as well (still good viewership and playerbase though), but HoTS never really made it as big as those games and I do think Blizzard needs to concentrate on their efforts elsewhere and new products.....
I would love to see a new Starcraft game or major content, no not a SC3 I don't think thats necessary for even maybe another like 4-5 years but like a new single player spin off or something would be nice with maybe like a new race or something different. Or maybe like a campaign where you play like multiple races and setting up some story for SC3 either way...the story telling and whatnot need to be on point if and when they come out with a new Starcraft game.
On December 17 2018 00:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Morhaime knew this was coming a few weeks before BlizzCon. He did not want to run around shaking hands with a smile plastered on his face telling everyone how great everything was at Blizzard during BlizzCon knowing HGC, HotD and Heroes would be cut.
So he quit. He made damn sure in his farewell statement he had been relegated to "Blizzard Fan Status" and had zero decision making abilities.
Mike Morhaime is the greatest.
To Blizzard I say : " you called down the thunder .... now reap the whirlwind "
I don't know about you, but that was the most awkward hand off between Morhaime and Brack .. I knew it was the end of the Blizzard we knew and the beginning of major changes. so here we go! Hold on tight!
Well Morhaime was the one publishing a bandwagon game and creating a clearly unsustainable esports scene around it. And let's not pretend like WOW business model has anything on mobile game, it's a game where you need to buy a (well like 7) full prize game and a monthly subscription fee that still manage to have thousands of dollars in micro transaction with some of them being clearly pay to win. Sure the quality of Blizzard game has fell of and their communication seem lacklustre at best, but let's not pretend like Blizz was at some point our good old friend who let us down.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
Really ? I liked Khaldor back in the day but don't have a clue of what he is doing now? any news, ?
He went all in on HotS, both solocasting stuff and being hired as a commentator. He could possibly stay with HotS and cater whatever following is left or just leave and work with another game.
It is not the birthright of anybody to work with e-sports either. I am sure both players and broadcaster know dramatic things can happen.
He said he would be going into WC3 casting now.
He has been focusing WC3 before the news even came out (basically after BlizzCon). So I think he will be fine.
How is sponsoring in WC3? And how about viewership? Is the game popular? I've never actually cared for or watched Warcraft.
They can kill SC2 like they just did Heroes at any moment that they want to or their investors aka Activision decides to.
Highly unlikely it'll happen but that's exactly what all the Heroes people thought too.
Blizzard has a monopoly though on the RTS market - SC2 is the only good RTS game on the market, there is zero competition so SC2 is pretty safe for the moment. No company is going to give up a product where they have a complete monopoly on the market share.
so as soon as a better RTS comes out...yes, they will do what they did to Heroes to SC2.
With that said...it won't happen no other devs have the balls to make a new RTS So we are safe
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but recently it's very common for large game companies to proceed with some very controversial decisions despite massive community outcry. Sure, the community outcry would be massive if they pulled the plug on sc2, many gaming websites and big name youtubers would call them out, but these companies don't seem to care, as long as COD hits the holiday sales target all's well and good. And you better believe that the overwhelming majority of the people that make them most of their money haven't even heard of sc2, nevermind reading gaming news websites.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
So they hold their promise for now. What's the new information then? Did they promise the same for HotS?
On December 17 2018 03:58 avilo wrote: They can kill SC2 like they just did Heroes at any moment that they want to or their investors aka Activision decides to.
Highly unlikely it'll happen but that's exactly what all the Heroes people thought too.
Blizzard has a monopoly though on the RTS market - SC2 is the only good RTS game on the market, there is zero competition so SC2 is pretty safe for the moment. No company is going to give up a product where they have a complete monopoly on the market share.
so as soon as a better RTS comes out...yes, they will do what they did to Heroes to SC2.
With that said...it won't happen no other devs have the balls to make a new RTS So we are safe
What if the market you have a monopoly on is tiny though
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
as always i dunno what this debate is really about. it's only recently that esports models even became a thing. it wasn't always considered a "failure" for a game to "only" last 10 or 20 years - in my mind it's still an incredible achievement and overall success
every argument here has validity and also has a valid counterpoint. yes, blizzard has shown a certain amount of dedicated stewardship toward SC, but they're still ultimately a corporation trying to make a profit. and although they will certainly try to be profitable there's no way for us as random SC fans to make meaningful deductions about what exactly is going to happen next. people have been saying dedgaem for years. it could get better tomorrow or worse. WCS could end in one year or ten. who knows?
i feel like the only reason people invest in these arguments is because they want to parrot the same old decade old talking points about SC esports without getting threads shut down. it's a toxic subject dressed in lipstick, and anyone who isn't an esports journalist or insider is ultimately just another talking head
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
citation please
you're presenting a lot of very aggressive claims as reported fact in this thread, so I'm going to need you to provide some sources because otherwise you're just shitting up the forums and spreading false information
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
citation please
you're presenting a lot of very aggressive claims as reported fact in this thread, so I'm going to need you to provide some sources because otherwise you're just shitting up the forums and spreading false information
if you can't you're banned
Here is Sigaty alluding to 10 more years of support at a LotV event. So, I guess that means support until 2024? which would be even longer than the 2019 i display in my post.
Q: "do you think people will be playing Starcraft in some form in 10 years". A: "absolutely, its our goal to do that. Starcraft, in the new form of Starcraft2 is our Blizzard `chess` if you will. and we want to continue to support it and upgrade it across time even after the launch of legacy of the void so it is here in 10 years and it is the elite competitive game that it is today"
so Sigaty shifts the convo away from "Starcraft in general in 10 years" and specifically moves to saying SC2 will be supported for 10 years
if you want i'll provide a "word for word" very specific support statement. i will also provide that.
If you want any other citations for any other "aggressive claims" .. .Let me know.. I'll provide them. However, just making a vague statement about " a lot of very aggressive claims " doesn't really help move the discussion forward.
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
citation please
you're presenting a lot of very aggressive claims as reported fact in this thread, so I'm going to need you to provide some sources because otherwise you're just shitting up the forums and spreading false information
if you can't you're banned
Here is Sigaty alluding to 10 more years of support at a LotV event. So, I guess that means support until 2024? which would be even longer than the 2019 i display in my post.
If you want any other citations for any other "aggressive claims" .. .Let me know.. I'll provide them. However, just making a vague statement about " a lot of very aggressive claims " doesn't really help move the discussion forward.
you passing off your headcannon as fact isn't particularly useful
thanks for that clip though; I'll even let your very loose interpretation of that answer stand
now explain me exactly how you know what mike morhaime was thinking when he decided to step down at blizzcon
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
citation please
you're presenting a lot of very aggressive claims as reported fact in this thread, so I'm going to need you to provide some sources because otherwise you're just shitting up the forums and spreading false information
if you can't you're banned
Here is Sigaty alluding to 10 more years of support at a LotV event. So, I guess that means support until 2024? which would be even longer than the 2019 i display in my post.
If you want any other citations for any other "aggressive claims" .. .Let me know.. I'll provide them. However, just making a vague statement about " a lot of very aggressive claims " doesn't really help move the discussion forward.
you passing off your headcannon as fact isn't particularly useful
you make a good point; and i've now provided you with a source. if you want other sources for other claims i'll be happy to provide them.
On December 17 2018 07:18 Waxangel wrote: now explain me exactly how you know what mike morhaime was thinking when he decided to step down at blizzcon
That is speculation given how high up Morhaime is within the company. Morhaime would know earlier than anyone else at Blizzard that cutbacks are on the way. Often top execs know many months in advance cutbacks are coming. Generally speaking, the CEO, who lives and breathes the financials of the company, knows well before the front line staff.
The "silence" many HotS pros and top team management recieved regarding HGC-2019 began a few weeks ago. Let's say mid November. So that's Blizz middle management types not responding to valid questions from important HotS pro players about HGC 2019 in mid-November. Morhaime, CEO, would know before those middle managers would know and BlizzCon was November 2-3.
On December 17 2018 07:18 Waxangel wrote: thanks for that clip though; I'll even let your very loose interpretation of that answer stand
i would not say my interpretation is all that loose. Sigaty is pretty emphatic. And, I hope he is right. I hope GSL 2024 is just as good as last year's GSL.
On December 17 2018 07:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Q: "do you think people will be playing Starcraft in some form in 10 years". A: "absolutely, its our goal to do that. Starcraft, in the new form of Starcraft2 is our Blizzard `chess` if you will. and we want to continue to support it and upgrade it across time even after the launch of legacy of the void so it is here in 10 years and it is the elite competitive game that it is today"
so Sigaty shifts the convo away from "Starcraft in general in 10 years" and specifically moves to saying SC2 will be supported for 10 years
On December 16 2018 18:21 Odoakar wrote: It doesn't matter if we are safe for 2019 or not. And it doesn't matter what was told to community members on the Summit.
What matters is that we know now that there will come a time someone at ActiBlizz will look at the numbers and decide to cut sc2 and focus only on OW and HS.
I'll never again buy a Blizzard product. And I really hope SC2 content creators start thinking how they can branch off to new non-Blizzard games. You don't want to be in Khaldors situation, ie. moving to another continent and fully devoting to one game for 3 years, completely neglecting your twitch stream and your brand on social networks, and then finding out the game is no longer existant.
What do you mean with "now"? It was always clear for every sane person that Blizzard will eventually stop support for a title and move to another.
Blizzard promised 10 years of support for SC2 when WoL came out. 2010 to 2019 will be 10 years.
citation please
you're presenting a lot of very aggressive claims as reported fact in this thread, so I'm going to need you to provide some sources because otherwise you're just shitting up the forums and spreading false information
if you can't you're banned
Here is Sigaty alluding to 10 more years of support at a LotV event. So, I guess that means support until 2024? which would be even longer than the 2019 i display in my post.
Q: "do you think people will be playing Starcraft in some form in 10 years". A: "absolutely, its our goal to do that. Starcraft, in the new form of Starcraft2 is our Blizzard `chess` if you will. and we want to continue to support it and upgrade it across time even after the launch of legacy of the void so it is here in 10 years and it is the elite competitive game that it is today"
so Sigaty shifts the convo away from "Starcraft in general in 10 years" and specifically moves to saying SC2 will be supported for 10 years
If you want any other citations for any other "aggressive claims" .. .Let me know.. I'll provide them. However, just making a vague statement about " a lot of very aggressive claims " doesn't really help move the discussion forward.
Yeah, no, you're misinterpretting the quote. He is saying they are supporting it the way they are at the time of the interview so Starcraft 2 is around for another 10 years and that it is still a competitive game. Look at the sentence preceeding the one with the 10 years comment. "Starcraft, in the new form of Starcraft 2, is our Blizzard 'chess' if you will." The statment that immediately follows this is "and we want to continue to support it and upgrade it across time even after the launch of legacy of the void so it is here in 10 years..." The it in this sentence, based on how grammar in the English language works, is Starcraft, NOT support. They want to support "it"and upgrade "it" so that hopefully "it" will be around in 10 years. Replace "it" with support and tell me if that sentence makes any sense. It doesn't and that is because "it" is referring to Starcraft.
On December 17 2018 01:04 Kuleto wrote: I agree I think SC2 is fine, I was kinda dissapointed in this as well but you know, Dota2 and LoL are on the decline as well (still good viewership and playerbase though), but HoTS never really made it as big as those games and I do think Blizzard needs to concentrate on their efforts elsewhere and new products.....
I would love to see a new Starcraft game or major content, no not a SC3 I don't think thats necessary for even maybe another like 4-5 years but like a new single player spin off or something would be nice with maybe like a new race or something different. Or maybe like a campaign where you play like multiple races and setting up some story for SC3 either way...the story telling and whatnot need to be on point if and when they come out with a new Starcraft game.
Nonsense. Can the SC2 scene survive without Blizzard cash? It can't. Therefore SC2 scene isn't safe.
Imagine Blizzard pulling out the money they invest into the scene. Big backlash? Really? How many people actually care about SC2 - 250k? And most of them already bought the game, didn't they?
C'mon, this wouldn't hit as much as the Diablo Announcement and they already done that.
Edit> I mean how many people care about the e-sport scene, not how many people are playing SC2.
The application period was December 13th to the 20th, 2018 and the event occurred from December 26th to the 27th. 2018. Last year's GSL Season 1 began January 6, 2018.
On December 17 2018 11:39 StasisField wrote: He is saying they are supporting it the way they are at the time of the interview so Starcraft 2 is around for another 10 years and that it is still a competitive game
yes, i agree. For clarity this comment by Sigaty was made in 2015.
On December 17 2018 00:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Morhaime knew this was coming a few weeks before BlizzCon. He did not want to run around shaking hands with a smile plastered on his face telling everyone how great everything was at Blizzard during BlizzCon knowing HGC, HotD and Heroes would be cut.
So he quit. He made damn sure in his farewell statement he had been relegated to "Blizzard Fan Status" and had zero decision making abilities.
Mike Morhaime is the greatest. That sad look on Mike's face at Blizzcon was because he was sad for the fans because he knew this was coming. He was not sad because he lost his position at Blizzard.. he didn't care. I saw Morhaime standing beside a building he bought in the 2000s for Blizzard to work in. It was a celebration ceremony for Blizzard. The guy bought a fucking giant building worth millions and he must've had $100 worth of clothes on. What a guy. damn...
To Blizzard I say : " you called down the thunder .... now reap the whirlwind "
Don't you get tired of talking bs dude? Pretending to understand things you know nothing about and yet writing with such conviction. You went from "understanding" the rts market and now graduated to reading the mind of a blizzard founder.
Personally I would not be worried. First of all, it does not exactly need to be mentioned the difference that SC2, let alone StarCraft, has done for Blizzard historically as the grandfather of esports. And even if historical factors didn't matter, SC2 had a really good year viewer-wise (greatly due to the first foreigner that absolutely crushed everyone I would assume), so I don't see a point in really messing with the WCS at this point.
I guess there is a slight personal concern that the new head of Blizzard will make some drastic changes, since unlike with Morhaime, there doesn't really seem to be an emotional connection to StarCraft regarding the new head of the org.
Ok I'm pretty pessimistic in reality, but maybe we need to turn the thinking around:
Perhaps all the HotS HGC money has been taken away to launch the new WCTLS with a huge salaried team league for Starcraft. Blizzard buys a big appartment building in Seoul where everyone who gets past challenger league can live rent free for 3 months and all the pros practice on the same server
thats the great thing about starcraft, we still have community tournaments and community casters who help keep the scene alive, and fans that donate to make tournaments. thats why i despise trolls who bash the guys running the smaller events (you see them all the time complaining that tastosis isn't casting or something even if its a B stream cast). now some dota ppl might come back, but that would mean the guys who were recently getting jobs casting at official events, whats gonna happen to them? I think we already have too many casters at some of these events tbh. but i'd rather see those guys who stuck with the game keep their jobs.
On December 18 2018 02:57 outscar wrote: I blame J. Allen Brack. The only thing he cares about is WoW. With Morhaime departure I sense that dark times are only ahead for us...
World of Warcraft needs to die already. All those Devs could be put to use to make something great
On topic: SC2 has a way more developed scene than Hots ever did. It is way less dependant on Blizz putting money in it. Canceling WCS would not kill the game, but would kill Blizz further. Afaik Blizzard shares are at an all time low right now. Could they really risk that? I don't know. We'll see I guess
Europe, NA, China and Korea need a team leagues rather then individual tournaments. Sponsors would pay for accomodation for players and we can have separate wcs team and solo tournaments. I cant see interest and gain for sponsor just throwing money to 1 or 2 players.
Secondly, buying ingame Wchests or other stuff should be source of financing pools rather then twitch subscriptions. But, big streamers like Rotti, Wardi, and others, should be payed correctly from that fond.
On December 18 2018 02:57 outscar wrote: I blame J. Allen Brack. The only thing he cares about is WoW. With Morhaime departure I sense that dark times are only ahead for us...
World of Warcraft needs to die already. All those Devs could be put to use to make something great
On topic: SC2 has a way more developed scene than Hots ever did. It is way less dependant on Blizz putting money in it. Canceling WCS would not kill the game, but would kill Blizz further. Afaik Blizzard shares are at an all time low right now. Could they really risk that? I don't know. We'll see I guess
If WoW dies Blizzard dies. There's a reason they didn't replace it yet.
On December 18 2018 19:15 ZeRoX_TV wrote: Europe, NA, China and Korea need a team leagues rather then individual tournaments. Sponsors would pay for accomodation for players and we can have separate wcs team and solo tournaments. I cant see interest and gain for sponsor just throwing money to 1 or 2 players.
Secondly, buying ingame Wchests or other stuff should be source of financing pools rather then twitch subscriptions. But, big streamers like Rotti, Wardi, and others, should be payed correctly from that fond.
What magical sponsors are you talking about? All the teamleagues in the past have failed.
On December 15 2018 02:40 Waxangel wrote: ('why are we wasting money on anything that won't be OWL-big?'
That make sense considering Activision new policies.
I agree, in the end games are products of their respective companies and they can ultimately do with them what they deem best for their businesses - which will probably always be the fundamental difference between esports and regular sports. At the end of the day you can still go outside and shoot some balls or go play soccer with your friends without having to rely on a company's/association's goodwill. So while esports emerged from the excitement of players/enthusiasts being able to compete with others in a structured league environment and/or watch people play the game they love at a much higher level than themselves, by today's standards it's ultimately just a marketing strategy. And that makes all funding for esports marketing costs which should absolutely paid for by the company trying to promote their game, but instead now they're trying to outsource parts of these costs to the customers in the form of Warchests in SC2 or the Compendium in Dota 2, just to further inflate already ridiculous prize pools instead of nurturing and maintaining a stable structure, that's what I have a problem with.
I mean, I think I kinda get it, it's a setup for an "exciting" narrative and the majority of people always look out for the bigger numbers, but still maybe it's about time to rethink some of the current "best" business practices in (online) gaming and consider where it all came from in the first place.
Edit: Also the way they've handled the cancellation can be considered ...scummy, to say the least.
That make sense too, it sounds like those company/community founds are spoiling the scene preventing a genuine push in finding sponsors and "real life" e-sport founding. In a way the BW situation is desirable now as it can only rely on sponsors, banks loan and private founding by passionate personalities, looking more solid overall.
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
I'm just hoping we get new information before the start of the New Year. I think it's most likely we'll hear between now and Dec 23, and December 27 and the New Year.
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
If they would do the Circuit globally it would actually be kinda fair.
Thinking of WCS tournaments in Katowice, Leipzig, Montreal, Austin, Valencia and Seoul. Open to anyone. No GSL
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
If they would do the Circuit globally it would actually be kinda fair.
Thinking of WCS tournaments in Katowice, Leipzig, Montreal, Austin, Valencia and Seoul. Open to anyone. No GSL
3 Europe, 2 NA, 1 Korea. How's this fair?
Anyway, this would be bad, we would lose many Koreans. And probably some foreigners.
On December 18 2018 02:57 outscar wrote: I blame J. Allen Brack. The only thing he cares about is WoW. With Morhaime departure I sense that dark times are only ahead for us...
World of Warcraft needs to die already.
Don't worry blizz have been on that for a while now
On December 18 2018 02:57 outscar wrote: I blame J. Allen Brack. The only thing he cares about is WoW. With Morhaime departure I sense that dark times are only ahead for us...
World of Warcraft needs to die already.
Don't worry blizz have been on that for a while now
wow is dead since it's beta launch if i believe forums and reddit
On December 18 2018 19:15 ZeRoX_TV wrote: Europe, NA, China and Korea need a team leagues rather then individual tournaments. Sponsors would pay for accomodation for players and we can have separate wcs team and solo tournaments. I cant see interest and gain for sponsor just throwing money to 1 or 2 players.
Secondly, buying ingame Wchests or other stuff should be source of financing pools rather then twitch subscriptions. But, big streamers like Rotti, Wardi, and others, should be payed correctly from that fond.
On December 18 2018 19:15 ZeRoX_TV wrote: Europe, NA, China and Korea need a team leagues rather then individual tournaments. Sponsors would pay for accomodation for players and we can have separate wcs team and solo tournaments. I cant see interest and gain for sponsor just throwing money to 1 or 2 players.
Secondly, buying ingame Wchests or other stuff should be source of financing pools rather then twitch subscriptions. But, big streamers like Rotti, Wardi, and others, should be payed correctly from that fond.
Just force all the BW players back to SC2 via blizzard lawsuits. Then the interest will be there again and the big companies can found teams again with Proleague recontinuing. Then they should kill off WCS so foreigners are forced to move to korea and play in Proleague if they want to continue their career so the viewership for Proleague is even higher.
Weekly scheduled maintenance update just concluded.
The new skins for the Buildings are now in the SC2 client under the Collections tab. I'd be totally shocked if WCS got cancelled now. I was about 95%+ sure WCS was going forward... now its more like 100%. There is a giant blank space in the "Featured" section of the Skins tab. I highly suspect that is where War Chest #4 is going to be.
Any how, Blizzard promised December 18 and they delivered.
SC2 seems to be directed for people more competent that HOTS. or maybe HOTS was harder to deal.
Strange, but playing CS:GO I have almost no thing to complain, in HOTS I always had problems, they removed the US10 server, quests was a boring grinding, eventually I abandoned HOTS, and pretty sure many people did too, everyone has his reason. But it seems that blizzard never knew wtf2do and wtf they wanted with the game
I think this will eventually happen to SC2, but hopefully with all these years experience, our game wouldn't suffer quite as much.
We have a healthy player count, with a healthy community scene. If the pros scene is killed off, I am sure we still have great events to keep it going.
On December 19 2018 10:46 ETisME wrote: I think this will eventually happen to SC2, but hopefully with all these years experience, our game wouldn't suffer quite as much.
We have a healthy player count, with a healthy community scene. If the pros scene is killed off, I am sure we still have great events to keep it going.
No one can make a living off of only community tournaments. The only people who would be able to remain full-time would be players who can make enough off stream donations and subs to make it work, everyone else would be part-time or retire. The game would basically become BW during the Sonic era, before ASL and KSL started up. It wouldn't be sustainable unless there were one or two extremely generous community members willing to put on tournaments.
On December 19 2018 14:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: OW has a far bigger player base than SC2. That said, OW esports isn't that much bigger than SC2 esports.
What!!!??? OWL is the biggest esport scene barring maybe LoL the cost for a franchise spot was arround 20 million US and they expect to go maybe as high as 60 millions for the new spot next season. Plus the league is suppose to start every match in the city of the franchise in 2020 or 2021 meaning a full schedule of studio booking in at least 15 city around the world. It's litteraly the most ambitious esport venture of all time and could very well decide of the future of all the esport ecosystem. OWL had hundreds of hours of broadcast every week and solid viewership count. (altough not crazy high)
SC2 host the GSL in a 100 people studio with free entries.
On December 19 2018 14:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: OW has a far bigger player base than SC2. That said, OW esports isn't that much bigger than SC2 esports.
They get over 100k 4 days a week for their league when it's on. They're a huge venture with OWL where they want to be the leader in a new evolution of esports. It's so massive that even if OWL fails hard in the next couple of years, the infrastructure that will be built around it will change esports, especially NA esports.
On December 19 2018 14:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: OW has a far bigger player base than SC2. That said, OW esports isn't that much bigger than SC2 esports.
OW is about 5-10x times in terms of both viewership and player base than sc2 esports period.
According to ATVI Investor Calls info OW had a paid player base of over 35 million by October 2017 while WoL sold 6 million copies. According to ATVI Investor calls Heart Of the Swarm sold 1 million in 3 days and LotV sold 1 million in 1 day. So I'd say your comment about both games' respective player bases is correct.
On December 19 2018 15:04 Nakajin wrote: What!!!??? OWL is the biggest esport scene barring maybe LoL the cost for a franchise spot was arround 20 million US and they expect to go maybe as high as 60 millions for the new spot next season. Plus the league is suppose to start every match in the city of the franchise in 2020 or 2021 meaning a full schedule of studio booking in at least 15 city around the world. It's litteraly the most ambitious esport venture of all time and could very well decide of the future of all the esport ecosystem.
I recommend reading the ATVI investor call transcripts to obtain accurate information regarding OW and OWL and Blizzard. This is because execs can be criminally charged for lying during official investor communications. Rich Exec guys at ATVI don't like going to jail. ESPN and any esports web site can publish any rumours they hear and call them "credible sources tell us blah blah blah".
If you want me to take a deep dive into a couple of ATVI investor calls... i will. Its ugly man. You won't like it. Its as ugly as ATVI's drop from $83.39 to $46.50 in stock price in 9 weeks. ATVI's big move into esports is floating about as good as a lead balloon.
Tying this back to HGC, WCS and SC2 esports; ATVI//Blizz has already cut back on Heroes of the Storm esports. I think people are concerned ATVI will cut back further on Blizzard's esports activities because Blizzard and ATVI esports are not profitable.
If they thought that esports will be profitable, they are clueless idiots. Esports is marketing strategy. They lose money there and gain money from sales and MTX and hopefully it balances out. With the games that Blizzard has, I doubt it does.
BTW still no WCS announcement and the year is practically over.
On December 19 2018 16:57 Pr0wler wrote: If they thought that esports will be profitable, they are clueless idiots. Esports is marketing strategy. They lose money there and gain money from sales and MTX and hopefully it balances out. With the games that Blizzard has, I doubt it does.
BTW still no WCS announcement and the year is practically over.
Pretty sure Valve ran events made net profit these past several years
On December 19 2018 19:28 Pr0wler wrote: If by "Valve ran" events you mean The International, yeah that's probably profitable, because of the crowd funding.
You say like that s cheating somehow. How else would a large scale event make profit? physical ticket sales?
On December 19 2018 19:28 Pr0wler wrote: If by "Valve ran" events you mean The International, yeah that's probably profitable, because of the crowd funding.
You say like that s cheating somehow. How else would a large scale event make profit? physical ticket sales?
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
If they would do the Circuit globally it would actually be kinda fair.
Thinking of WCS tournaments in Katowice, Leipzig, Montreal, Austin, Valencia and Seoul. Open to anyone. No GSL
3 Europe, 2 NA, 1 Korea. How's this fair?
Anyway, this would be bad, we would lose many Koreans. And probably some foreigners.
Serral took the crown from Korea so obviously Korea gets one less and EU one more
On December 19 2018 14:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: OW has a far bigger player base than SC2. That said, OW esports isn't that much bigger than SC2 esports.
What!!!??? OWL is the biggest esport scene barring maybe LoL the cost for a franchise spot was arround 20 million US and they expect to go maybe as high as 60 millions for the new spot next season. Plus the league is suppose to start every match in the city of the franchise in 2020 or 2021 meaning a full schedule of studio booking in at least 15 city around the world. It's litteraly the most ambitious esport venture of all time and could very well decide of the future of all the esport ecosystem. OWL had hundreds of hours of broadcast every week and solid viewership count. (altough not crazy high)
SC2 host the GSL in a 100 people studio with free entries.
Surely there's no way the OWL is performing as well for the money invested into it? It gets around 5x the viewership of sc2 for about 10x the playerbase, and probably 50-100x the investment into it by blizzard and the various orgs.
ATVI states OWL, "other esports activities", "MLG Network" and "mobile game incubation" are "strategic initiatives". ATVI will boast that Blizzard's higher revenues offset spending on "strategic initiatives". So ATVI will put up with spending money into these various "strategic initiative" items due to Blizzard bringing in giant amounts of cash from its video games. ATVI is hoping OWL, MLG Network, "other esports activities" and "mobile game incubation" become profitable in the future. By labelling these things "strategic initiatives" and making them an expense in "Operating Segment Income" ATVI is stating these items are not profitable right now.
Hope of future profits does not last forever. SC:Ghost was in "game incubation" mode for 5 years and ATVI spent lots of money on it and it got cut. They lost hope in SC:Ghost becoming profitable. One item in "other esports activities" just got cut. That is, HGC for Heroes of the Storm. Clearly, ATVI doesn't think HGC can make a profit in the future. It got cut.
The question is: What is next to be cut? Based on the info in this thread my guess is the GSL is going to be cut.
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
If they would do the Circuit globally it would actually be kinda fair.
Thinking of WCS tournaments in Katowice, Leipzig, Montreal, Austin, Valencia and Seoul. Open to anyone. No GSL
3 Europe, 2 NA, 1 Korea. How's this fair?
Anyway, this would be bad, we would lose many Koreans. And probably some foreigners.
Serral took the crown from Korea so obviously Korea gets one less and EU one more
But honestly - this solution means we lose plenty of progamers. 1) You give foreigners and Korea the same amount of seeds(with flight cost covered) - unfair to Korea. Many lower Korean players leave. Some foreigners end, not many, but this means reduced seeds -> less money. 2) You give foreigners less seeds than Korea. My estimation is that this means 40-40 loss ratio 3) You give foreigners more seeds than Korea ensuring Korean scene is dead for good.
Also 2 NA 3 Europe 1 Korea means Koreans are travelling the most. We may lose players who don't want to travel or have big issues with jet lag(I doubt WCS will pay for enough hotel time so these players can adapt)
This is similar to putting a patient with dead brain on a life support because his body doesn't know higher brain functionality is gone forever.
Edit> if #1 or #3 would happen my support to Blizzard is gone forever. This would be the last straw for me.
I'm not sure why everyone in the Starcraft community is so worried about this... Heroes of the Storm has ALWAYS been a huge money sink for Blizzard. Its only very rarely been profitable and its Esports scene has never increased in-game revenue very effectively. Its been a losing proposition from a business perspective from day 1. It was only given the spotlight because it was "the game the devs wanted to make and felt passionate about" not because they actually thought it was a good business idea or what the market asked for/needed. Starcraft is the exact opposite in almost every way. Esports is absolutely vital to its success as a product, its proven that its capable of being a huge commercial success as a game and an Esport long-term given the right circumstances (in fact, maybe the most proven game in history ), and Blizzard have been taking big steps over several years now to make the game financially sustainable in the long-term. And the game and the Esport is exactly what the market has been clamoring for since before Starcraft 2 was even announced.
Esports money for all the games comes out of the same Blizzard budget/pot. All the HotS announcement means is that now there's a bunch of cash that's suddenly been freed up to go to the other games. If anything, this is GREAT news for Starcraft.
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
If they would do the Circuit globally it would actually be kinda fair.
Thinking of WCS tournaments in Katowice, Leipzig, Montreal, Austin, Valencia and Seoul. Open to anyone. No GSL
3 Europe, 2 NA, 1 Korea. How's this fair?
Anyway, this would be bad, we would lose many Koreans. And probably some foreigners.
Serral took the crown from Korea so obviously Korea gets one less and EU one more
But honestly - this solution means we lose plenty of progamers. 1) You give foreigners and Korea the same amount of seeds(with flight cost covered) - unfair to Korea. Many lower Korean players leave. Some foreigners end, not many, but this means reduced seeds -> less money. 2) You give foreigners less seeds than Korea. My estimation is that this means 40-40 loss ratio 3) You give foreigners more seeds than Korea ensuring Korean scene is dead for good.
Also 2 NA 3 Europe 1 Korea means Koreans are travelling the most. We may lose players who don't want to travel or have big issues with jet lag(I doubt WCS will pay for enough hotel time so these players can adapt)
This is similar to putting a patient with dead brain on a life support because his body doesn't know higher brain functionality is gone forever.
Edit> if #1 or #3 would happen my support to Blizzard is gone forever. This would be the last straw for me.
Just to clarify: There is no source, or at least I don't have one. This is just purely speculative Only thing that is sure is IEM Katowice is flagged as WCS event for everybody including Koreans. The rest of the tournaments I made up or are from this years WCS Circuit.
Anyway, making IEM Katowice a event for everyone leads me to believe this might be what WCS 2019 looks like. Koreans would absolutely need to travel. If Maru doesn't want to travel, he will probalby miss out on a huge portion of the WCS events. Obviously jet lag is a thing and traveling is expensive and tiresome so there would always be the "home" factor to consider
Katowice is exactly the same as last year. I can't see any difference. It is open for everyone and is part of WCS. The only information we can get from this announcement is that IEM Katowice 2019 is exactly the same as IEM Katowice 2018, which is good I guess.
On December 14 2018 18:28 Kaizor wrote: I wouldn't take that as confirmation until i see official plans for wcs 2019. And like some have mentioned before SC2 might have had its best year in a while but is it good enough for the higher ups?
WCS-2019 And GSL-2019 A year long SC2 championship pro circuit in the form of WCS occurs throughout 2019. The first event has been announced with a War Chest attached to the funding of additional cash to the prize pool. Blizzard named the new War Chest after the event: "War Chest Katowice 2019". Also, lots of details about the contents of the Warchest. Cool Stuff! https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/ https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22792661/
Let's contrast WCS-2019 and IEM-Katowice-2019 with GSL-2019. We have lots of info about a WCS-Circuit event concluding months from now in March. Lots of details several months in advance for IEM-Katowice. Great stuff! Unfortunately, We have zero information for GSL-2019. No qualifiers, no prize pool details, no schedule. GSL Qualifiers are usually in December with GSL Season 1 occuring in the 1st week of January. Last year GSL Qualifiers were announced December 2.. Its December 18. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/a73im2/gsl_2019_offline_qualifiers/
Blizzard's silence around GSL 2019 qualifiers and the appearance of the web site covering the WCS-Circuit doesn't give good vibes for the GSL in 2019. Fortunately, based on what Blizzard has already announced it looks like WCS-2019 should be good. There is even a cool countdown timer for IEM-Katowice saying it starts in 68 days, XX hours, XX minutes.
So for 2019 we've got some pretty cool stuff for WCS-Circuit and an odd silence around GSL-2019. The longer the silence the more it sounds like the silence surrounding HGC before its cancellation. In any event, we'll probably know in a few weeks what's going on with the GSL.
If they would do the Circuit globally it would actually be kinda fair.
Thinking of WCS tournaments in Katowice, Leipzig, Montreal, Austin, Valencia and Seoul. Open to anyone. No GSL
3 Europe, 2 NA, 1 Korea. How's this fair?
Anyway, this would be bad, we would lose many Koreans. And probably some foreigners.
Serral took the crown from Korea so obviously Korea gets one less and EU one more
But honestly - this solution means we lose plenty of progamers. 1) You give foreigners and Korea the same amount of seeds(with flight cost covered) - unfair to Korea. Many lower Korean players leave. Some foreigners end, not many, but this means reduced seeds -> less money. 2) You give foreigners less seeds than Korea. My estimation is that this means 40-40 loss ratio 3) You give foreigners more seeds than Korea ensuring Korean scene is dead for good.
Also 2 NA 3 Europe 1 Korea means Koreans are travelling the most. We may lose players who don't want to travel or have big issues with jet lag(I doubt WCS will pay for enough hotel time so these players can adapt)
This is similar to putting a patient with dead brain on a life support because his body doesn't know higher brain functionality is gone forever.
Edit> if #1 or #3 would happen my support to Blizzard is gone forever. This would be the last straw for me.
Just to clarify: There is no source, or at least I don't have one. This is just purely speculative Only thing that is sure is IEM Katowice is flagged as WCS event for everybody including Koreans. The rest of the tournaments I made up or are from this years WCS Circuit.
Anyway, making IEM Katowice a event for everyone leads me to believe this might be what WCS 2019 looks like. Koreans would absolutely need to travel. If Maru doesn't want to travel, he will probalby miss out on a huge portion of the WCS events. Obviously jet lag is a thing and traveling is expensive and tiresome so there would always be the "home" factor to consider
Oh yea, I know there's no official info, no worries.
Probably only good things, one less thing to steal viewers from Starcraft 2, and while I played 3K games of HOTS and had fun, the game is somehow just as frustrating as Starcraft when you lose but only a quarter as satisfying when you win because let's face it, you're at the mercy of your team mates.
Starcraft 2 and Brood War viewership is on the rise and the team seems to be cranking out good content, plus 1v1 balance seems pretty nice and varied at the moment, I think SC2 is actually gonna have a really really good year in 2019, I gave up on it but came back 6 months ago and remembered how great the game was and how amazing it was as an Esport.
That is probably the biggest thing to me, which one is the better Esport. I personally think pro SC2 is more fun to watch then any real sport, "pro" HOTS just flat out put me to sleep, it was even worse to watch then DOTA 2 or LoL.
IEM is doing a better job of serving Korean pros than the GSL. Innovation's decision to sign with a non-KOrean non-SC team is looking smarter and smarter every day.
At this point, no one who pays attention to the korean scene should be shocked if GSL is cut back substantially or completely.
IEM is doing a better job of serving Korean pros than the GSL. Innovation's decision to sign with a non-KOrean non-SC team is looking smarter and smarter every day.
At this point, no one who pays attention to the korean scene should be shocked if GSL is cut back substantially or completely.
If they cut off the GSL I am gonna view the Pylon show after a long time. That should be interesting considering how we had the best time, best games, best GSLs
IEM is doing a better job of serving Korean pros than the GSL. Innovation's decision to sign with a non-KOrean non-SC team is looking smarter and smarter every day.
At this point, no one who pays attention to the korean scene should be shocked if GSL is cut back substantially or completely.
If they cut off the GSL I am gonna view the Pylon show after a long time. That should be interesting considering how we had the best time, best games, best GSLs
They will find a way to hype up the new year as the new best year ever.
IEM is doing a better job of serving Korean pros than the GSL. Innovation's decision to sign with a non-KOrean non-SC team is looking smarter and smarter every day.
At this point, no one who pays attention to the korean scene should be shocked if GSL is cut back substantially or completely.
If they cut off the GSL I am gonna view the Pylon show after a long time. That should be interesting considering how we had the best time, best games, best GSLs
They will find a way to hype up the new year as the new best year ever.
And I want to see the ways they will do it I expect hypocrisy or cringe to the max.
On December 17 2018 00:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Morhaime knew this was coming a few weeks before BlizzCon. He did not want to run around shaking hands with a smile plastered on his face telling everyone how great everything was at Blizzard during BlizzCon knowing HGC, HotD and Heroes would be cut.
So he quit. He made damn sure in his farewell statement he had been relegated to "Blizzard Fan Status" and had zero decision making abilities.
Mike Morhaime is the greatest. That sad look on Mike's face at Blizzcon was because he was sad for the fans because he knew this was coming. He was not sad because he lost his position at Blizzard.. he didn't care. I saw Morhaime standing beside a building he bought in the 2000s for Blizzard to work in. It was a celebration ceremony for Blizzard. The guy bought a fucking giant building worth millions and he must've had $100 worth of clothes on. What a guy. damn...
To Blizzard I say : " you called down the thunder .... now reap the whirlwind "
Don't you get tired of talking bs dude? Pretending to understand things you know nothing about and yet writing with such conviction. You went from "understanding" the rts market and now graduated to reading the mind of a blizzard founder.
because Morhaime is so transparent in his communications it doesn't take a mind reader. thanks for reading my posts!