(a) If Serral is dethroned, it'll be by KRs—him handily beating all foreigners is basically axiomatic.
(b) Who could dethrone him this year? Maybe a better question is, which race will first? [For sure it won't be Zerg—he dominatedDark and Rogue, so I give basically zero chance of any lesser Zs beating him, basically implying all other Zs.]
(c) It'll be Terran(s): INoVation, Maru, and TY could still take out Serral, any doing so being far from upsetting—at HSC, a (relatively) rusty TaeJabarely missed taking him out 3-1. [God it'll be lovely if the TaeJa-of-Old emerges!]
(d)INno barely missed doing so in the same tournament. INno is in great form again, possibly like his form of yore. [For you young bux out there who missed the Age of the Machine, there was a time, a very long one, where INno did to KRs what Serral does to foreigners.] Without doubt INno could beat Serral this year.
(e) If not by INno then by Maru. Maru is the most naturally talented SC2 player ever. Maru at his best could handily take out Serral—you'd be a fool to be surprised if Maru ever 4-1 or 4-2'd him in a Finals.
(f)TY still has his moments. On-point TY could beat Serral, but it'd be extremely close.
(g)Zest, Classic, and Stats could still do it, but I find it unlikely. If I had to pick which of them would, it'd be Stats.
(h)Serral could, and likely will, be around a long time. He's patient, low-neuroticism, and maybe most importantly, can consistently reverse-sweep—off the top of my head, I can't think of another player that consistently comes back and wins when big money's at stake.
(i) I know we all have occasionally had our nuts speed-bagged by what-if?"Dream Finals"—crowdfunding could create those Dream Finals and answer many what-if?s. If we don't get the tournament finals we want, crowdfund them. It'd help keep the SC2 scene alive since as long as players have the opportunity to earn big money, they'll stay. At any rate, we need to look into ways to keep such a beautiful game from dying a slow death when its current skill-level is undoubtedly the highest in history. We really need to explore crowdfunding Dream Finals and the like.
(j)Serral is a lovable guy and I wish him the best in SC2—his play is truly inspired. But far more importantly, based off the 2018 WCS Finals promo video about him, he seems like a damn good man.
No. His most recent loss of a series was to neeb, 0-3 btw, on 20 october 2018 (granted he was hiding strats for WCS). Also he barely scraped by vs Scarlett, dropped maps to has and lost in a major tournament against Elazer 7 january 2018. And yes, also Maru beat him in WESG two month later. But just no, it is far from axiomatic that he handily beats all foreigner. I actually think most likely a foreign zerg is gonna take a series off him.
The first Bonjwa of SC2 will fall when he does, I don't think speculation has much value. He may very well lose to uThermal in the next WCS event, but there's no one outcome like this I'd bet on.
It takes a genius to dethrone another genius. The way I see it is that LotV has for a long time now been about having a gameplan that spans into the later stages of the game and about having the best execution at these stages. It's as if the spoutings of old is finally coming to fruition. Day9 & Artosis vision of how the game should be played, after 8 years of SC2 is finally coming true. The only difference is that it's not about only defensive play as how IdrA played the game, though we still have some of that play today, Scarlett's TvZ comes to mind. It's moreso the battle of attention and forcing the opponent to have to pay attention at home as well. So the more battles you can have going at the same time, the more the better player will shine through. Serral is at the absolute peak in this aspect and is winning LotV. People make the case for Maru, but I think Maru is only comparable to Serral in TvZ and even if he would have the upper hand vs Serral, I doubt so, but even still it doesn't mean dethroning him, as Serral is winning the bigger picture, he's winning in 3 matchups, where Maru is not. So I think we need to look for a genius in not execution, but a different kind of genius. I'm thinking people who were the Gods of the earlier installments of this game, these guys who could not rely on the playstyle that we play today. It was more a mental battle as in playing a bo3/bo5/bo7 to it's fullest extend. It was also large head on skirmishes where one battle would decide the game, instead of a battle of attrition. Geniuses like sOs, Parting, TaeJA. Obviously they are not at the current top skill level like Serral, Stats and Maru, but were they to be, the forgotten knowledge of yesteryear would be at full display and this is my guess as to what and who could dethrone the empire as of today.
On January 03 2019 23:05 MatteDaemon wrote: (a) If Serral is dethroned, it'll be by KRs—him handily beating all foreigners is basically axiomatic.
(b) Who could dethrone him this year? Maybe a better question is, which race will first? [For sure it won't be Zerg—he dominatedDark and Rogue, so I give basically zero chance of any lesser Zs beating him, basically implying all other Zs.]
(c) It'll be Terran(s): INoVation, Maru, and TY could still take out Serral, any doing so being far from upsetting—at HSC, a (relatively) rusty TaeJabarely missed taking him out 3-1. [God it'll be lovely if the TaeJa-of-Old emerges!]
(d)INno barely missed doing so in the same tournament. INno is in great form again, possibly like his form of yore. [For you young bux out there who missed the Age of the Machine, there was a time, a very long one, where INno did to KRs what Serral does to foreigners.] Without doubt INno could beat Serral this year.
(e) If not by INno then by Maru. Maru is the most naturally talented SC2 player ever. Maru at his best could handily take out Serral—you'd be a fool to be surprised if Maru ever 4-1 or 4-2'd him in a Finals.
(f)TY still has his moments. On-point TY could beat Serral, but it'd be extremely close.
(g)Zest, Classic, and Stats could still do it, but I find it unlikely. If I had to pick which of them would, it'd be Stats.
(h)Serral could, and likely will, be around a long time. He's patient, low-neuroticism, and maybe most importantly, can consistently reverse-sweep—off the top of my head, I can't think of another player that consistently comes back and wins when big money's at stake.
(i) I know we all have occasionally had our nuts speed-bagged by what-if?"Dream Finals"—crowdfunding could create those Dream Finals and answer many what-if?s. If we don't get the tournament finals we want, crowdfund them. It'd help keep the SC2 scene alive since as long as players have the opportunity to earn big money, they'll stay. At any rate, we need to look into ways to keep such a beautiful game from dying a slow death when its current skill-level is undoubtedly the highest in history. We really need to explore crowdfunding Dream Finals and the like.
(j)Serral is a lovable guy and I wish him the best in SC2—his play is truly inspired. But far more importantly, based off the 2018 WCS Finals promo video about him, he seems like a damn good man.
a) Based on the fact, that Serral won't meet many Koreans soon apart from IEM Katowice, I think it's more likely for him to be beaten by another foreigner. Almost every top foreign Zerg had extremely close series against Serral (Reynor, Scarlett, Lambo). Showtime and Neeb also haven't been exactly easy tasks for him to take on. At the same time there are quite some great players currently training in Korea, so we could expect someone of them (Elazer, uThermal, Sortof, Zanster, Special, PtitDrogo) to have an upswing in skill.
b) If it is a foreigner, which isn't unlikely it will almost definitely a Zerg.
c) We'll have to see how korean Terrans and especially how Serral adapted to the current patch. The close series against Terrans at HomestoryCup may have been caused by the patch being easier adaptable for Terrans.
d) Inno has been quite volatile the last year. We'll have to wait, if he can keep up his good form. I really hope so.
e) Maru is not (by far!) the most naturally talented SC2-Player. It took him seven years to get to the state he showed us in 2018. His prior sucess was quite heavily overshadowed by a long time of not-close-enough'ness. The most naturally talented SC2-Players are probably Life, Taeja and Serral, considering the ease they took trophies again and again after having their breakthrough while not being known to be following a very rigid training regime. Still I hope that you're right and Maru will continue his great form of 2018 and take his crown as best player of the world.
f) TY is almost a blackbox to me. I can both see him taking Serral out as well as totally crumbling against him.
How is Maru more naturally talented than Life? Life walked the royal road and Maru was lucky to make a finals until 2018. Maru isn't even close to the most naturally talented Starcraft player lmao.
By the way Flash won 3 ASL in 2017 and won nothing in 2018 (if I recall correctly). I don't understand why you'd assume that someone who won a few tournaments in one year would win even more in the next year.
Your bias towards koreans and against Serral/foreigners is prominent in most of your points, OP. I think you noticed this midway and added (h) and (j) because of that. It's funny. If I'm totally in the wrong with this I'm sorry but it appears to me like that.
why we want him de throned? Do you not long for a clear world champion, the one we have to beat. When it happens it will be special again just like it was this time . . .and no i dont mean special is going to do it.
I personally think all the current roster of 'top' players are kind of dwindling a bit. What ive noticed in a lot fo games over the last year is we have got back to the making massive death balls with more spells this time around. Serral seems to be the only one who seems to be making the skirmishes (unless ur a drop terran but this is indeed a style in itself)
not sure, kind of like sc2 the way it is now. its like we have something to root for again rather than A KR winning all the time and then being set behind a region lock and we dont see much of them.
On January 04 2019 03:52 Rodya wrote: By the way Flash won 3 ASL in 2017 and won nothing in 2018 (if I recall correctly). I don't understand why you'd assume that someone who won a few tournaments in one year would win even more in the next year.
That's a bad analogy considering his wrist injury.
I think the most important factor here is the map and the patch changes. How impactful are they and will Serral be able to evolve with them? Usually with patches come new strategies and unit compositions. Some of these new strategies may be able to poke holes in the goliath. I imagine the same will happen to Maru too. So I think patches and maps are the biggest reason why you can't use last years results as an indicator for this year.
Serral probably cant keep going like he had in 2018, but I do hope that if and when he is beaten it's gonna be epic, in the finals or semis of a big toureny, and not some abusive coinflip-y bullshit. And then he comes back the next time around, seeking payback.
On January 04 2019 03:46 Rodya wrote: Life walked the royal road and Maru was lucky to make a finals until 2018
Maru royal roaded OSL and SSL
While this is true, it's not exaclty the same, since Life's royal road was also his first primier, while Maru had been around for a while when he royal roaded OSL.
On January 04 2019 06:25 ejozl wrote: While this is true, it's not exaclty the same, since Life's royal road was also his first primier, while Maru had been around for a while when he royal roaded OSL.
It wasn't Life's first premier. Both their royal roads were their respective first playoff appearance in Korean leagues. There will always be a way to downplay achievements if we really want to. Life royal roaded during BL/infestor and then was a non-factor in Code S for a long time.
Is Elentos actually downplaying Lifes first Code S win? He beat Taeja and Mvp back to back at a time when Taeja and Mvp were gods. Marus first korean starleague was a 2012 Code S. He had played tons of starleagues by the time he won OSL. By the way, it doesnt count as a royal road when its the first SSL lol.
The kind of dominance we saw by Serral is completely unprecedented, in fact it's the heavy heavy norm that after someone loses a championship they can't repeat it the next. I know Serral is a god, but I can't help but feel at IEM Katowice some Korean is going to take him down. Otherwise he's bonjwa, plain and simple.
I watched Rogue leave blizzcon after losing to Serral. That boy going to have PTSD next time they match up.
It looks like Serral is here to stay. Most of the "Player X took a map off Serral" don't consider the fact that Serral throws in random cheese builds, loses then dominates with his standard.
On January 04 2019 06:25 ejozl wrote: While this is true, it's not exaclty the same, since Life's royal road was also his first primier, while Maru had been around for a while when he royal roaded OSL.
It wasn't Life's first premier. Both their royal roads were their respective first playoff appearance in Korean leagues. There will always be a way to downplay achievements if we really want to. Life royal roaded during BL/infestor and then was a non-factor in Code S for a long time.
Is the question who is going to end Serral's offline streak or who is going to be the strongest sc2 player after he momentarily(or permanently) declines?
It's normal for even the most dominant players to lose games or tournaments early; Serral hasn't lost offline in the last eight months or so, I doubt that losing would diminish his status significantly.
If he wins the tournament in March he's Bonjwa level, I agree; however, he might as well lose. Neeb's PvZ might be a threat, but Maru's TvZ is probably the greatest threat(Innovation could, TY's vs Z doesn't seem me that lethal); in any of case, Serral's shape will be the most important thing: his BlizzCon form would still be nearly unbeatable while his HSC one would definitely be.
Serral is here to stay even if he loses, tho; i could speculate that some brilliant young foreigner or some top level korean will eventually replace him, but that's to be seen.
On January 04 2019 11:04 Rodya wrote: Serral loses to Maru and Classic.
Sorry for my double post, but that's not relevant. Serral lost to Maru and Classic before becoming the best player in the world, it's like pointing out who Maru lost to in 2016 or 2017...
Very bold claims. Admitting this is the case, so what? Maru loses to Protoss and might lose to TY as well. Are you implying Serral losing to Maru would relegate him immediatly to nothingness?
I think Rogue could beat Serral if he's in top form. Dark can also beat him but he is definitely not favoured. I think Zest has no chance against Serral though. His record is like 1-8 against him or something like that.
Edit: Dark looks pretty strong right now so I think he could play a close series against Serral. Only player I'd favour against Serral in a best of 7 is Maru tbh and the players who can play with Serral on near equal terms I think include Inno, Dark, Classic, Stats and TY. The amount of times Serral was down 3-2 and won the last 2 games is pretty crazy.
On January 04 2019 11:15 Charoisaur wrote: Serral can't beat Maru - once he faces him he's done
Hahaha for Maru to beat Serral Maru needs to step up his game to not keep getting eleminated before they clash against each other :D Innovation CAN beat him 40%-50% probably, but not Maru
But maybe Maru chickens out intentionally to not get 4:0'd by Serral, who knows. Keeps his reputation up and money flowing.
On January 04 2019 11:04 Rodya wrote: Serral loses to Maru and Classic.
Sorry for my double post, but that's not relevant. Serral lost to Maru and Classic before becoming the best player in the world, it's like pointing out who Maru lost to in 2016 or 2017...
well, that's the issue when Koreans are locked and there are fewer tournaments in general, there isn't more than 10 matches per year between Koreans and foreigners in big tournaments. One could argue that Serral was only Korean destroyer level in GSL vs the world and Blizzcon. So October, November and December whereas Maru was dominating Koreans since early in the year and therefore superior. May or may not be true but the lack of official matches hurts this kind of comparisons.
On January 04 2019 15:49 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I'm not even sure he has the throne. I think Maru is still stronger even though Serral deserves #1 in Power Rank for winning Blizzcon and HSC
Even if I thought Maru was the favorite versus Serral, which I'm not sold on, Maru would still be the only person I could see consistently beating Serral. Meanwhile Maru could very conceivably lose to many people such as sOs, Stats, TY, Serral.
Head to Head isn't everything. Holistically Serral is just much more dominant across all three matchups.
Good post, I think discussing what or who it takes to "dethrone" Serral is an interesting concept.
Although kind of unrelated, I would make the case for Serral not being low in neuroticism. You can often see him overcome with negative emotions after a loss or a mistake, but the difference between him and your average neurotic ladder hero is that he is able to contain the emotions which lead to insane clutches and reverse-sweeps, as you stated.
On January 04 2019 11:15 Charoisaur wrote: Serral can't beat Maru - once he faces him he's done
Hahaha for Maru to beat Serral Maru needs to step up his game to not keep getting eleminated before they clash against each other :D Innovation CAN beat him 40%-50% probably, but not Maru
But maybe Maru chickens out intentionally to not get 4:0'd by Serral, who knows. Keeps his reputation up and money flowing.
True that. Thats probably how he got his 3 gsl championships as well.
In all seriousness, if you think Innovation can beat Serral but Maru cannot...innovation wasnt able to qualify for Blizzcon to get a shot at Serral.
He was the only one who didnt really get steamrolled by Serral and of course came second at the tournament. Don't forget that game 1 where Stats' wall was messed up and the Serral's lings were able to run straight into the probe lines. That dumb mechanic was a free win for Serral.
On January 07 2019 02:15 BerserkSword wrote: I like how everybody is sleeping on Stats
He was the only one who didnt really get steamrolled by Serral and of course came second at the tournament. Don't forget that game 1 where Stats' wall was messed up and the Serral's lings were able to run straight into the probe lines. That dumb mechanic was a free win for Serral.
stats is like Rain. chronically underrated and probably will always be due to audience bias against systematic, defensive protoss players. Stats should be universally considered one of the top players in the world for the past few years, but sadly no one really cares
On January 07 2019 02:15 BerserkSword wrote: I like how everybody is sleeping on Stats
He was the only one who didnt really get steamrolled by Serral and of course came second at the tournament. Don't forget that game 1 where Stats' wall was messed up and the Serral's lings were able to run straight into the probe lines. That dumb mechanic was a free win for Serral.
stats is like Rain. chronically underrated and probably will always be due to audience bias against systematic, defensive protoss players. Stats should be universally considered one of the top players in the world for the past few years, but sadly no one really cares
I agree for Stats but I don't get why everyone always said that Rain was underrated, I feel like most pro-player/ fans always said he was the ultimate protoss or their road model yet he had similar success as other great protoss like Classic, sOs or even herO who never got the same praise as him, being rather treated as patch/ bulshit abuser
Stats is often underrated but I don't think we are doing it here. It's just that(at least I think so) it seems there are players who would be more threatening to Serral than Stats.
On January 04 2019 11:15 Charoisaur wrote: Serral can't beat Maru - once he faces him he's done
Hahaha for Maru to beat Serral Maru needs to step up his game to not keep getting eleminated before they clash against each other :D Innovation CAN beat him 40%-50% probably, but not Maru
But maybe Maru chickens out intentionally to not get 4:0'd by Serral, who knows. Keeps his reputation up and money flowing.
I think you are severely underestimating how well maru can play when he plays well, like he did 2012-2015
On January 04 2019 03:46 Rodya wrote: How is Maru more naturally talented than Life? Life walked the royal road and Maru was lucky to make a finals until 2018. Maru isn't even close to the most naturally talented Starcraft player lmao.
Hahahahaha...
Maru's 4-0 sweep over Innovation in the WCS semifinals was one of the greatest displays of skill I've ever seen. No one thought Maru would win. But he walked in and crushed Innovation.
On January 04 2019 03:46 Rodya wrote: How is Maru more naturally talented than Life? Life walked the royal road and Maru was lucky to make a finals until 2018. Maru isn't even close to the most naturally talented Starcraft player lmao.
Hahahahaha...
Maru's 4-0 sweep over Innovation in the WCS semifinals was one of the greatest displays of skill I've ever seen. No one thought Maru would win. But he walked in and crushed Innovation.
Maru is a great player and he's so fucking awesome when he's in his godlike form. But Life was still showing us better stuff, most of his game were - oh, you got hellions? That's cute, I have speedlings. Oh, you got blue flame hellions now? I have MOAR speedlings. Oh, you're FlasH? That's cute, add to the hoards of speedligns even more banelings!
also, serral is gonna win Blizzcon this year again. maybe he drops a map here n there, maybe he even loses a series somewhere. But i havn´t heard a SINGLE pro state that they are confident in their ability to challenge serral. as long as that is the case, no way he s not taking that blizzconmoney this year aswell.
Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent.
I would be very surprised to see him "descend into mediocrity" but he's surely human and he can lose; I'm a little worried, Zerg are still struggling this patch and the competition is fierce.
On January 04 2019 03:46 Rodya wrote: How is Maru more naturally talented than Life? Life walked the royal road and Maru was lucky to make a finals until 2018. Maru isn't even close to the most naturally talented Starcraft player lmao.
Hahahahaha...
Maru's 4-0 sweep over Innovation in the WCS semifinals was one of the greatest displays of skill I've ever seen. No one thought Maru would win. But he walked in and crushed Innovation.
And he also lost IEM finals to hangover Life who had take a break mid-series to vomit
The sickness probably didn't affect Life's play. He's still the best zerg in SC2 history at least for now until Serral dominates this year (if he does). And that's the finals, the best place to lose.
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a series is unprecedent.
I would be very surprised to see him "descend into mediocrity" but he's surely human and he can lose; I'm a little worried, Zerg are still struggling this patch and the competition is fierce.
Serral dropped series... If you want to say he didn't drop THE WHOLE year a single series, you're outright lying.
I rewrote that phrase, even if it was quite obvious I wouldn't have said "a very good start into..." if I(falsely) meant he was dominating from the beginning of the year.
On January 12 2019 00:28 Xain0n wrote: I rewrote that phrase, even if it was quite obvious I wouldn't have said "a very good start into..." if I(falsely) meant he was dominating from the beginning of the year.
Sure, that's more liek it. Although his series are mostly dependent on the WCS, sadly (where he doesn't belong )
Edit> Actually I believe that unless Serral meets some Korean in a good form in Poland he will lose to some European player. Unless they collapse a game before victory
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent.
I would be very surprised to see him "descend into mediocrity" but he's surely human and he can lose; I'm a little worried, Zerg are still struggling this patch and the competition is fierce.
Im sure he'll not descend into mediocrity this year but you get what I was trying to say. Starcraft 2 changes and so do all the players. I'd be happy if he could maintain his level of play but I'd also not be surprised if (for example) Innovation has a huge comeback.
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent.
Well no one else has really had the same opportunity to do that as Serral. He only took part in like four tournaments with koreans and won two of them (I guess three inc HSC). Other players with dominant streaks like INno, Rogue, Maru etc might won more high level series/tournaments but have losses in other events.
Rogue in 2017 for example won four weekenders in a row (three in that same year). But had losses in online matches and Code S in between. Yet Serral's run is the greater achievement because he didn't enter those kind of events.
Maru would have had to win like three times the number of premiers in 2018 to have matched the same winrate or eight month winning streak as Serral.
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent.
Well no one else has really had the same opportunity to do that as Serral. He only took part in like four tournaments with koreans and won two of them (I guess three inc HSC). Other players with dominant streaks like INno, Rogue, Maru etc might won more high level series/tournaments but have losses in other events.
Rogue in 2017 for example won four weekenders in a row (three in that same year). But had losses in online matches and Code S in between. Yet Serral's run is the greater achievement because he didn't enter those kind of events.
Maru would have had to win like three times the number of premiers in 2018 to have matched the same winrate or eight month winning streak as Serral.
And he managed to avoid the top Terrans! He didn't meet them at Blizzcon and he didn't meet them at GSL v World (I don't count Innovation in 2018 as top Terran)
Edit> It's not like he's responsible, but it managed to do the job considering his road was stopped in Poland by Maru.
Edit 2> It's still quite impressive considering he won Blizzcon
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent.
Well no one else has really had the same opportunity to do that as Serral. He only took part in like four tournaments with koreans and won two of them (I guess three inc HSC). Other players with dominant streaks like INno, Rogue, Maru etc might won more high level series/tournaments but have losses in other events.
Rogue in 2017 for example won four weekenders in a row (three in that same year). But had losses in online matches and Code S in between. Yet Serral's run is the greater achievement because he didn't enter those kind of events.
Maru would have had to win like three times the number of premiers in 2018 to have matched the same winrate or eight month winning streak as Serral.
IEM and WESG were both played before the start of the streak and we are not counting online events(Serral lost 3-0 to Neeb just before BlizzCon in a minor tournament). Serral's streak is still one of the highest ever(or even the best) if we include the games he played only against koreans; moreover, the majority of those were played against top ones(he didn't get to play Maru or Ty but it's not like he chose not to), unlike the ones usually koreans have against other koreans that usually include victories against mid-tier koreans like Creator or so on.
Rogue's streak started later in the year as he accomplished nothing before late July and it is technically broken by his Code S loss in August; he didn't really get to play many more series than Serral. This, if we want to completely disregard WCS...
I agree that in a truly global Circuit Serral probably wouldn't have gone undefeated but most likely Maru wouldn't have taken home three Code S titles as well. In addiction to this, Maru failed hard at BlizzCon and Serral's form was godlike; I am personally convinced Serral would have won BlizzCon regardless of his opponent.
Well as it turned out. Soo will be the one to dethrone Serral.
Well, maybe not dethrone but knock Serral down. Serral didn't look like he was at his best but he certainly wasn't playing bad Soo also made a few mistakes but as it turns out, not even Serral can stop Soo from coming second place
No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose.
And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose.
And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose.
And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship.
I believe we have different definitions of the best in the world, in my opinion you are not the best in the world just because you win one tournament. In my opinion it is pretty obvious that just because you win does mean you are the best player. One player can be undefeatable in two matchups and get knocked out in the third while the winner sucks in two matchups but is great in one and rides that all the way to the championship. There are tons of factors that effect if you win or not outside of if you are the best player or not.
Just as the lesser player is more likely to be able to steal a victory in a BO3 than a BO7 winning one tournament among middling results proves nothing. Winning multiple tournaments and high multiple high finishes however that paints a clearer picture of who the best players actually is, even though form of course is also a factor but its not like Serrals form is bad atm.
Edit: Notice how many casters refer to Serral as the best in the world, its not because he won one tournament its because he has proved that through multiple tournaments. When previous Rogue won blizzcon they didn't call him the best player in the world the next year, they called him the ruling world champion, which is just a title and clearly different from actually being the best in the world.
The casters refer to Serral as the best in the world because his ethnicity isn't Korean and he's in the top 10 of players. Simple as that.
Serral has never been the undisputed #1 player in the world, contrary to what you think. At his peak he was ~rank 2 with Maru above him. This loss at IEM is huge for his legacy because he barely plays any matches against Koreans. He has to beat Maru and Dark at WESG to make up for it if he wants to be considered top 2 anymore.
After that he won't play an important tournament with Koreans in it until Blizzcon and then IEM the next year. He really rarely plays - that's why this loss is a big deal for him.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose.
And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship.
I believe we have different definitions of the best in the world, in my opinion you are not the best in the world just because you win one tournament. In my opinion it is pretty obvious that just because you win does mean you are the best player. One player can be undefeatable in two matchups and get knocked out in the third while the winner sucks in two matchups but is great in one and rides that all the way to the championship. There are tons of factors that effect if you win or not outside of if you are the best player or not.
Just as the lesser player is more likely to be able to steal a victory in a BO3 than a BO7 winning one tournament among middling results proves nothing. Winning multiple tournaments and high multiple high finishes however that paints a clearer picture of who the best players actually is, even though form of course is also a factor but its not like Serrals form is bad atm.
Edit: Notice how many casters refer to Serral as the best in the world, its not because he won one tournament its because he has proved that through multiple tournaments. When previous Rogue won blizzcon they didn't call him the best player in the world the next year, they called him the ruling world champion, which is just a title and clearly different from actually being the best in the world.
I would not use the casters as proof of a player being the best in the world lol, its their job to create hype
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose.
And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship.
On March 03 2019 08:07 Rodya wrote: The casters refer to Serral as the best in the world because his ethnicity isn't Korean and he's in the top 10 of players. Simple as that.
Serral has never been the undisputed #1 player in the world, contrary to what you think. At his peak he was ~rank 2 with Maru above him. This loss at IEM is huge for his legacy because he barely plays any matches against Koreans. He has to beat Maru and Dark at WESG to make up for it if he wants to be considered top 2 anymore.
After that he won't play an important tournament with Koreans in it until Blizzcon and then IEM the next year. He really rarely plays - that's why this loss is a big deal for him.
I get your points about his loss being a big hit to his position of course but the problem is, you place him at rank 2 at his peak below Maru. That makes me really curious, tell me what player you consider the best in the world and the following rank 2 and 3.
While it was possible to rank Maru above Serral even after blizzcon it is not possible any more. Maru cannot be considered the best player in the world anymore based on his results. So who is above Serral? Stats that bombed out of GSL recently? soO based solely on this tournament, he wasn't even at Blizzcon... Dark who got 3-0 right of the bat by Serral at Blizzcon?
I simply don't see any player that can be considered better than Serral right now when looking at the broader picture.
Edit: Stats I guess maybe you could argue for Stats =P His results are insane even considering he's not in the RO16 GSL.
On March 03 2019 08:07 Rodya wrote: The casters refer to Serral as the best in the world because his ethnicity isn't Korean and he's in the top 10 of players. Simple as that.
Serral has never been the undisputed #1 player in the world, contrary to what you think. At his peak he was ~rank 2 with Maru above him. This loss at IEM is huge for his legacy because he barely plays any matches against Koreans. He has to beat Maru and Dark at WESG to make up for it if he wants to be considered top 2 anymore.
After that he won't play an important tournament with Koreans in it until Blizzcon and then IEM the next year. He really rarely plays - that's why this loss is a big deal for him.
I wonder how you managed to stay this long without getting banned
Edit: I do agree that unless Stats lose to soO in the final tomorrow he has the best case for a "best in the world" throne, his GSL loses is unexpected but he has the best bedigree outside of it. Dark also has a solid case if he win, lost to Serral at Blizzcon and he has been looking super strong since then, plus he gets to play in WESG.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
Lol if you can lose in the tournament and still be the best player in the world it’s still Maru. But it does not work like that and I think Dark will win IEM this year.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
Lol if you can lose in the tournament and still be the best player in the world it’s still Maru. But it does not work like that and I think Dark will win IEM this year.
Yes it does work like that, just because a player wins a tournament that player is not automatically the best in the world.
Maru lost early not just at IEM but also at Blizzcon, its almost half a year since Maru had any impressive results. If anyone else but Serral had won at Blizzcon I would still have considered Maru the best in the world but since it was Serral who also had incredible results that same year I think that put Serral at nr 1. But yeah you could argue Maru was still the best after his loss at Blizzcon but not anymore, not after this early exit at IEM.
I guess we should at least wait until the first part of the season is over before electing a new best player in the world; Serral lost but still looked strong enough. WESG and Code S will give us a broader picture; the players who could dethrone Serral(Maru, Rogue) did worse than him in this tournament, Stats is out of Code S already. We'll see, what happens if Serral redeems himself at WESG?
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
Lol if you can lose in the tournament and still be the best player in the world it’s still Maru. But it does not work like that and I think Dark will win IEM this year.
Well yes and no, if let say herO win IEM against soO then Stats it would be kind of odd saying he's the best in tbe world having played like 7 pvp and one pvz. And it would be fair to say either Stats or Serral are the best player in the world. Maru didn't just lose at this IEM, he lost IEM-Blizcom-Super tournament and GSLvTW winning "only" gsl season 3 since last summer. One bad performance is excusable (like Stats round of 32 gsl exit) 4 of them isn't
On March 03 2019 08:53 Xain0n wrote: I guess we should at least wait until the first part of the season is over before electing a new best player in the world; Serral lost but still looked strong enough. WESG and Code S will give us a broader picture; the players who could dethrone Serral(Maru, Rogue) did worse than him in this tournament, Stats is out of Code S already. We'll see, what happens if Serral redeems himself at WESG?
Will there be WESG this year? And will it have sc2?
On March 03 2019 08:53 Xain0n wrote: I guess we should at least wait until the first part of the season is over before electing a new best player in the world; Serral lost but still looked strong enough. WESG and Code S will give us a broader picture; the players who could dethrone Serral(Maru, Rogue) did worse than him in this tournament, Stats is out of Code S already. We'll see, what happens if Serral redeems himself at WESG?
Will there be WESG this year? And will it have sc2?
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
Lol if you can lose in the tournament and still be the best player in the world it’s still Maru. But it does not work like that and I think Dark will win IEM this year.
Well yes and no, if let say herO win IEM against soO then Stats it would be kind of odd saying he's the best in tbe world having played like 7 pvp and one pvz. And it would be fair to say either Stats or Serral are the best player in the world. Maru didn't just lose at this IEM, he lost IEM-Blizcom-Super tournament and GSLvTW winning "only" gsl season 3 since last summer. One bad performance is excusable (like Stats round of 32 gsl exit) 4 of them isn't
Lettering a set of bullet points is a sure fire way to fool people in to reading nonsense. Sanbox logic, Imaginimation, and involuntary reactions, are also too a beautiful thing of nonsense. soO you think you can dance?
It's really quite easy: currently there is no "best player in the world" - at least no player has been determined as such yet. The last serious competition was in november at Homestory Cup where Serral proved to be the best in the world. But after 3 months and a new patch it is quite dumb to claim that title for anybody. Sure, there are some contenders but we just haven't seen enough in the new year to make a clear statement. With losses of Serral, Maru and Innovation while herO and soO performed surprisingly well, we can assume that the actual ranking has been shuffled quite a bit.
So, is Serral dethroned? At least his status is disputable now. And if soO, Dark or herO wins here and also wins GSL or at least makes it to the finals, he would have to be called the new best player in the world.
On January 11 2019 02:30 JoeCool wrote: Before discussing who will dethrone Serral we should wait and see how he performs at IEM. Starcraft 2 has a history of players outperforming everyone else in one year and descending into mediocrity the next year. Latest example beeing Innovation who turned on beastmode after a rather lackluster year 2018.
No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent.
I would be very surprised to see him "descend into mediocrity" but he's surely human and he can lose; I'm a little worried, Zerg are still struggling this patch and the competition is fierce.
his numbers were artificially inflated because of region lock. koreans couldn't come and compete as well. naniwa had one mlg run where he got a flawless victory run, because there were no koreans. if there were region lock back then, he would have had a huge win streak as well. thats why the serral fanboys are insufferable. the gap closed cause blizz killed the korean scene with region lock. serral is the best player in the world, but his 2018 was greatly helped via region lock.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
"He lost but he's still the best" lmao you can't honestly believe that. Based on what? because he won the world championship 3 months ago? Accept it - he isn't the best anymore. I don't think we can call a player the best currently even after IEM concluded - I'd say there are now just like 5 players at the top who are all the best players in the world and would probably be 50-50 against each other. Nobody has been dominant enough to be called the clear best player.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
"He lost but he's still the best" lmao you can't honestly believe that. Based on what? because he won the world championship 3 months ago? Accept it - he isn't the best anymore. I don't think we can call a player the best currently even after IEM concluded - I'd say there are now just like 5 players at the top who are all the best players in the world and would probably be 50-50 against each other. Nobody has been dominant enough to be called the clear best player.
Based on his recent results, obviously. Based on the past 3 biggest tournament which player has overall placed the best? Stats or Serral, there really is no other player to argue for.
One championship does not make a legacy nor does one defeat mean you are no longer the best overall player.
Edit: Lets say Serral goes on and win the next three tournaments, are you really going to argue that he was weak at this time. bad form? The second best player will sometimes defeat the best player, thats how starcraft works. That doesn't mean the best isn't the best anymore but of course he needs to keep winning future tournaments to prove that.
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
"He lost but he's still the best" lmao you can't honestly believe that. Based on what? because he won the world championship 3 months ago? Accept it - he isn't the best anymore. I don't think we can call a player the best currently even after IEM concluded - I'd say there are now just like 5 players at the top who are all the best players in the world and would probably be 50-50 against each other. Nobody has been dominant enough to be called the clear best player.
Based on his recent results, obviously. Based on the past 3 biggest tournament which player has overall placed the best? Stats or Serral, there really is no other player to argue for.
One championship does not make a legacy nor does one defeat mean you are no longer the best overall player.
Edit: Lets say Serral goes on and win the next three tournaments, are you really going to argue that he was weak at this time. bad form? The second best player will sometimes defeat the best player, thats how starcraft works. That doesn't mean the best isn't the best anymore but of course he needs to keep winning future tournaments to prove that.
Sure but the last tournament was 3 months ago. You can't claim he's the best now because he had a strong run 3 months ago. Since then he has shown little to suggest he's still superior to the other top 5 players but looking at his play he's definitely still on par with them.
i wonder what kind of impact the loss has on him. some would probably get motivated but some would lose confidence. let's see if he has a champion mind set
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill.
"He lost but he's still the best" lmao you can't honestly believe that. Based on what? because he won the world championship 3 months ago? Accept it - he isn't the best anymore. I don't think we can call a player the best currently even after IEM concluded - I'd say there are now just like 5 players at the top who are all the best players in the world and would probably be 50-50 against each other. Nobody has been dominant enough to be called the clear best player.
Based on his recent results, obviously. Based on the past 3 biggest tournament which player has overall placed the best? Stats or Serral, there really is no other player to argue for.
One championship does not make a legacy nor does one defeat mean you are no longer the best overall player.
Edit: Lets say Serral goes on and win the next three tournaments, are you really going to argue that he was weak at this time. bad form? The second best player will sometimes defeat the best player, thats how starcraft works. That doesn't mean the best isn't the best anymore but of course he needs to keep winning future tournaments to prove that.
Sure but the last tournament was 3 months ago. You can't claim he's the best now because he had a strong run 3 months ago. Since then he has shown little to suggest he's still superior to the other top 5 players but looking at his play he's definitely still on par with them.
Yeah, 4-1 finish with quite a lot of maps lost (albeit against good players) then an exit in the ro8 indicates for me that he is still hanging with the cool kids but not the best anymore.
I don't think IEM will be sufficient to design the new best player either, GSL and/or WESG will probably give a clearer picture.
So weird that Maru was the best to your eyes after all of his losses and a single tournament exit implies Serral is not the best anymore.
I'd say he is not the undisputed best at the moment and arguments can be made, instead. We'll have much clearer indications in the next 40 days, for now Serral probably is still the best.
On March 03 2019 21:43 Xain0n wrote: So weird that Maru was the best to your eyes after all of his losses and a single tournament exit implies Serral is not the best anymore.
I'd say he is not the undisputed best at the moment and arguments can be made, instead. We'll have much clearer indications in the next 40 days, for now Serral probably is still the best.
On March 03 2019 21:43 Xain0n wrote: So weird that Maru was the best to your eyes after all of his losses and a single tournament exit implies Serral is not the best anymore.
I'd say he is not the undisputed best at the moment and arguments can be made, instead. We'll have much clearer indications in the next 40 days, for now Serral probably is still the best.
To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
Well the answer can be - get back to your cave, fanboy. How do you like them attacks?
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
Well the answer can be - get back to your cave, fanboy. How do you like them attacks?
Senseful criticism and opinions are welcome, what he wrote was just offensive and ridicolous hate.
On March 03 2019 23:04 Rodya wrote: Not even the best zerg in the world anymore. And he has no real matches until ro4 WESG
You're implying SoO is the best zerg? Not going to argue that soO's not amazing, he played well and deserved the win. But his form looked far from perfect, evident in the group stage losing to Bunny, TY, and Dear. He slid into RO12 by beating 2 foreigners, and barely made it out thanks to map scores (4 way tie for 3rd place in match scores between SoO, Bunny, Uthermal, and Scarlett).
Heck, SoO even SAID Serral is the best player right now before playing him, but that he's confident in ZvZ.
Well done, Inno and SoO for beating Serral in a series, but Serral didn't even look bad. It was just his opponents playing outstandingly.
soo is not the best player in the world, he is not better at zvz than serral just because he won one best of series. it was close and could have gone either way. but today, for this moment in time, HE IS THE BEST. AND HE BEAT THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD TO DO SO!!!! MINUS MARU OF COURSE
Well, if soO and Serral played today another bo5, my money would be on Serral. Serral made some huge mistakes in this match (roach move command, run all lings into 2 banes), and looked kinda frustaded all the time. With this factors fixed IMO Serral is a better player. Although time will tell if it was just a bad day and he is stil no.1, or this is the start of his downfall .
On March 04 2019 01:23 Lgnarrow wrote: Well, if soO and Serral played today another bo5, my money would be on Serral. Serral made some huge mistakes in this match (roach move command, run all lings into 2 banes), and looked kinda frustaded all the time. With this factors fixed IMO Serral is a better player. Although time will tell if it was just a bad day and he is stil no.1, or this is the start of his downfall .
how often you lose games because you're frustrated and making mistakes is the same thing as being a "good/bad player" though lol.
On March 04 2019 01:23 Lgnarrow wrote: Well, if soO and Serral played today another bo5, my money would be on Serral. Serral made some huge mistakes in this match (roach move command, run all lings into 2 banes), and looked kinda frustaded all the time. With this factors fixed IMO Serral is a better player. Although time will tell if it was just a bad day and he is stil no.1, or this is the start of his downfall .
how often you lose games because you're frustrated and making mistakes is the same thing as being a "good/bad player" though lol.
Serral showed us he could play almost flawless games on a regular basis; he did not, yesterday.
For me, Serral's game against soO yesterday proved once again he's an exceptional player. The way he was defending the multiprongs with overseers and overlords constantly following soO's armies while dodging biles... It was honestly phenomenal and pushing the skill of what players can do. Even in early game, the way he constantly gets lings in the opponent's base is something that most of the other zergs don't even try to do. Even downloading the replays and checking out g1 of Serral vs Gumi, the way he focus fires the right units (one single scv to save his ravager), or when he runs away with roaches in another game and has only one roach kill an injured unit instead of firing with all roaches... He does these things on a constant basis and really plays the game at an amazing level. Compare this with Dark vs Solar where Solar on Kairos has 0 overlods spread across the map, zero vision of Dark's roaches...
Regardless of whether he wins or loses, the skill he's showing is definitely amazing for anyone paying attention, and I hope he continues to push the boundaries even further
Calm down guys, Serral is just warming up if you consider the whole season. Now that koreans study his play and prepare specifically for him, he will have a tough time though.
Let's wait for WESG before talking about Serral, honestly I don't think his loss vs soO made him look bad, everyone gonna lose once in a while he played good and soO went on winning the tournament. The game vs INno were a bit more worrying but he should get to play vs T in WESG so will see there.
I'm more worry about Neeb if we talk foreigner, if his pvp is actually as bad as he let it show WCS Winter NA could prove surprisingly interesting. Puck and Probe are pretty good toss and Astrea is suppose to be a pvp sniper. If Neeb lose a couple of series in group stage and has to play a bunch of pvp in the king of the hill playoff we might not get the Scarlett-Neeb final after all. (Also Scarlett need to dodge the fuck of Masa of course)
On March 03 2019 23:04 Rodya wrote: Not even the best zerg in the world anymore. And he has no real matches until ro4 WESG
You're implying SoO is the best zerg? Not going to argue that soO's not amazing, he played well and deserved the win. But his form looked far from perfect, evident in the group stage losing to Bunny, TY, and Dear. He slid into RO12 by beating 2 foreigners, and barely made it out thanks to map scores (4 way tie for 3rd place in match scores between SoO, Bunny, Uthermal, and Scarlett).
Heck, SoO even SAID Serral is the best player right now before playing him, but that he's confident in ZvZ.
Well done, Inno and SoO for beating Serral in a series, but Serral didn't even look bad. It was just his opponents playing outstandingly.
To me, the fact that Serral didnt even look bad makes Soo look even better.
There is nothing shameful about beating Scarlett who only last year destroyed serral and sos en route to a premier tournament win, and uthermal, to reach RO12. His playoffs performance more than proves that his run wasnt a fluke
3-0 Zest 3-2 Serral 3-1 Hero 4-2 Stats
With the exception of getting swept by Dear, soo put on a masterclass for ZvP and ZvZ, toppling in-form giants Serral and Stats who have dominated so much of the scene lately
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
Well the answer can be - get back to your cave, fanboy. How do you like them attacks?
Senseful criticism and opinions are welcome, what he wrote was just offensive and ridicolous hate.
Ofc, one tournament is not enough. It was clear that Koreans (at least Trap and Dark) was still arrogant about Serral's skills.
Fanboyism on Serral and calling him GOAT or Bonjwa is what I hate. It's sensless and ridiculous. But it's a game, and I do see the fun banter about it, hence: jokes on you whoever called Serral a Bonjwa. 4 wins against Neeb, a showmatch win, and a Blizzcon? No, not even close. Impressive streak? yes. But Rogue's streak was better.
serral is arguably still the best player in the world, and saying he's not the best because he lost to mother fucking soo is nonsense.
there is a lot of variance in a game like starcraft. the series was close and could've gone either way if it were repeated. its just that in the past, things would always go awry for soo, but this time the stars fucking aligned. his biggest demon was himself, and once he conquered that, no one, not even serral was going to stop him. but would he win again? debatable
region lock is dumb because it denies the fans the opportunities to watch more titanic earth shattering fights between soo and serral
On March 04 2019 06:50 fishjie wrote: serral is arguably still the best player in the world, and saying he's not the best because he lost to mother fucking soo is nonsense.
there is a lot of variance in a game like starcraft. the series was close and could've gone either way if it were repeated. its just that in the past, things would always go awry for soo, but this time the stars fucking aligned. his biggest demon was himself, and once he conquered that, no one, not even serral was going to stop him. but would he win again? debatable
region lock is dumb because it denies the fans the opportunities to watch more titanic earth shattering fights between soo and serral
Personally, I think we need a systematic way to determine who is the best player in the world. And I think we just did one: A TOURNAMENT. Just like how Tenkaichi Tournament is, a tournament to determine who is the best martial artist in the world.
But ofc, there's also other ways to do it systematic. By money winnings? Maru. By other ways, Serral is probably at top, so yes it is indeed arguable.
I agree, foreigner-advantage region lock is dumb. But I wonder if we would see the likes of Neeb and Serral if this handicap to Koreans did not exist.
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
Well the answer can be - get back to your cave, fanboy. How do you like them attacks?
Senseful criticism and opinions are welcome, what he wrote was just offensive and ridicolous hate.
Ofc, one tournament is not enough. It was clear that Koreans (at least Trap and Dark) was still arrogant about Serral's skills.
Fanboyism on Serral and calling him GOAT or Bonjwa is what I hate. It's sensless and ridiculous. But it's a game, and I do see the fun banter about it, hence: jokes on you whoever called Serral a Bonjwa. 4 wins against Neeb, a showmatch win, and a Blizzcon? No, not even close. Impressive streak? yes. But Rogue's streak was better.
It was premature more than ridicolous, I personally did not and would not have. You are forgetting HSC, btw. Serral's streak is way better than Rogue's.
On March 04 2019 07:39 NinjaNight wrote: I think Serral even looked a little better than soO despite losing the series. He's clearly in fine form.
He looked a little better than soO, I agree, but took wrong decisions in the most crucial moments, wasted a game not yet lost moving into gg and seemed someway slower than his standard. I think it was a mental block more than a shape issue.
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
Well the answer can be - get back to your cave, fanboy. How do you like them attacks?
Senseful criticism and opinions are welcome, what he wrote was just offensive and ridicolous hate.
Ofc, one tournament is not enough. It was clear that Koreans (at least Trap and Dark) was still arrogant about Serral's skills.
Fanboyism on Serral and calling him GOAT or Bonjwa is what I hate. It's sensless and ridiculous. But it's a game, and I do see the fun banter about it, hence: jokes on you whoever called Serral a Bonjwa. 4 wins against Neeb, a showmatch win, and a Blizzcon? No, not even close. Impressive streak? yes. But Rogue's streak was better.
It was premature more than ridicolous, I personally did not and would not have. You are forgetting HSC, btw. Serral's streak is way better than Rogue's.
His winning streak of global tournament is about as good as Rogue I think, but his overall form was better (good results at IEM WESG last year, and this IEM and WCS dominance)
On March 04 2019 07:48 Jealous wrote: Bonjwa lmfao
People soiling the goddamn name, year in, year out.
Yea people don't really understand how much this word implies. There has never been a Bonjwa in SC2. That shows how dominant a Bonjwa must be (Serral hasn't done it nearly long enough)
On March 03 2019 22:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: To all Serral hypers, jokes on you. Bonjwa lol. Haven't even played in Code S. He's just like Neeb that was unknown, went in and surprised everyone.
The fact that almost all foreigners get the demolished again and again in all the tournaments where Koreans are allowed to play; is empirical evidence that WCS is minor to Code S, Katowice etc.
Get back to your cave, hater! Serral was not unknown to anyone when he won BlizzCon since he already won GSL vs the World. He just played Starcraft so godly that not even the best koreans went close to defeat him in that tournament.
Well the answer can be - get back to your cave, fanboy. How do you like them attacks?
Senseful criticism and opinions are welcome, what he wrote was just offensive and ridicolous hate.
Ofc, one tournament is not enough. It was clear that Koreans (at least Trap and Dark) was still arrogant about Serral's skills.
Fanboyism on Serral and calling him GOAT or Bonjwa is what I hate. It's sensless and ridiculous. But it's a game, and I do see the fun banter about it, hence: jokes on you whoever called Serral a Bonjwa. 4 wins against Neeb, a showmatch win, and a Blizzcon? No, not even close. Impressive streak? yes. But Rogue's streak was better.
It was premature more than ridicolous, I personally did not and would not have. You are forgetting HSC, btw. Serral's streak is way better than Rogue's.
His winning streak of global tournament is about as good as Rogue I think, but his overall form was better (good results at IEM WESG last year, and this IEM and WCS dominance)
In a Powerrank I'd probably still rank Serral #1 since nobody else has really made a strong claim for that title (soO was shaky in the groupstages and avoided his historically weakest matchup in the bracketstage; Stats lost in GSL ro32). but he's definitely not the undisputed number 1 anymore.
Geez Serral is the reigning World Champion and some people seem to think he is bad. The concept of "best" is stupid anyway. There is so much variance from event to event. soO has been considered 2nd tier for over a year now, had a terrible group stage and then put up one of the best 2 day performances we have ever seen. It has been 6 months since Maru's Season 3 GSL win and in the 4 premier tournaments since Maru hasn't made a final. Stats has 3 finals in that span btw, so Stats has been clearly better than Maru in the last 6 months right?
On March 04 2019 08:36 Amarillo Caballero wrote: Geez Serral is the reigning World Champion and some people seem to think he is bad. The concept of "best" is stupid anyway. There is so much variance from event to event. soO has been considered 2nd tier for over a year now, had a terrible group stage and then put up one of the best 2 day performances we have ever seen. It has been 6 months since Maru's Season 3 GSL win and in the 4 premier tournaments since Maru hasn't made a final. Stats has 3 finals in that span btw, so Stats has been clearly better than Maru in the last 6 months right?
Maybe you're right that the concept of "best" is foolish, its kind of rare that one player is so dominant that we can actually say that he is the best. We're in a period now where we don't know anymore I guess.
Maru hasn't really done anything the last 6 months and Stats has shown great results so yeah, Stats way higher than Maru right now. I hope that will change however
On March 04 2019 08:36 Amarillo Caballero wrote: Geez Serral is the reigning World Champion and some people seem to think he is bad. The concept of "best" is stupid anyway. There is so much variance from event to event. soO has been considered 2nd tier for over a year now, had a terrible group stage and then put up one of the best 2 day performances we have ever seen. It has been 6 months since Maru's Season 3 GSL win and in the 4 premier tournaments since Maru hasn't made a final. Stats has 3 finals in that span btw, so Stats has been clearly better than Maru in the last 6 months right?
Maybe you're right that the concept of "best" is foolish, its kind of rare that one player is so dominant that we can actually say that he is the best. We're in a period now where we don't know anymore I guess.
Maru hasn't really done anything the last 6 months and Stats has shown great results so yeah, Stats way higher than Maru right now. I hope that will change however
The question is how much of it is the team strategy(e.g. GSL ST, where they were so obviously trying to snipe anything between sOs and Blizzcon) and how much of it is Maru not giving fucks or hating travelling(or not coping well with travelling, I know a person who can't fall asleep if she's not in hers bed and that's for a week or two, so she's not travelling at all or very rarely). To put it simply - we don't know this. And I do believe JAGW still holds their team strategy strong, not like other "teams" (sorry not sorry)
On March 04 2019 08:35 Charoisaur wrote: In a Powerrank I'd probably still rank Serral #1 since nobody else has really made a strong claim for that title (soO was shaky in the groupstages and avoided his historically weakest matchup in the bracketstage; Stats lost in GSL ro32). but he's definitely not the undisputed number 1 anymore.
On March 04 2019 08:36 Amarillo Caballero wrote: Geez Serral is the reigning World Champion and some people seem to think he is bad. The concept of "best" is stupid anyway. There is so much variance from event to event. soO has been considered 2nd tier for over a year now, had a terrible group stage and then put up one of the best 2 day performances we have ever seen. It has been 6 months since Maru's Season 3 GSL win and in the 4 premier tournaments since Maru hasn't made a final. Stats has 3 finals in that span btw, so Stats has been clearly better than Maru in the last 6 months right?
Maybe you're right that the concept of "best" is foolish, its kind of rare that one player is so dominant that we can actually say that he is the best. We're in a period now where we don't know anymore I guess.
Maru hasn't really done anything the last 6 months and Stats has shown great results so yeah, Stats way higher than Maru right now. I hope that will change however
The question is how much of it is the team strategy(e.g. GSL ST, where they were so obviously trying to snipe anything between sOs and Blizzcon) and how much of it is Maru not giving fucks or hating travelling(or not coping well with travelling, I know a person who can't fall asleep if she's not in hers bed and that's for a week or two, so she's not travelling at all or very rarely). To put it simply - we don't know this. And I do believe JAGW still holds their team strategy strong, not like other "teams" (sorry not sorry)
If Maru decides to not give a fuck, can he even be in the discussion for "best"? The whole not doing well in foreign countries is completely legitimate. However, the two travel tournaments in question each had first place prizes larger than he won for all 3 GSL firsts combined. I highly doubt he didn't give it his all for those.
Sidenote: I also really enjoy when people deify GSL as the hardest tournament and then also dump on Neeb as if he didn't top 4 the most recent GSL and play an incredible, albeit losing, series against TY...