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On January 22 2019 19:02 Jerom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2019 17:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Blizzard balances the game from the wrong end. They try to balance for winrates first, then look at design. They should do the opposite, try to get the design right first, then balance for winrates.
Most people prefer macro games to be the norm, with the occational cheese to spice things up. Right now it is the opposite in TvP, if you play macro Terran is at a severe disadvantage, so are forced to proxy just to have a chance in the midgame.
Right now those things are basically the same thing in TvP though. Terrans cheese because lategame is unwinnable. If you balance lategame you will also solve your design problems.
True but I fail to see how the Thor range increase achieve this. I mean it is a step in the right direction but I really doubt it will be enough against the Protoss late game.
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On January 22 2019 20:16 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2019 19:02 Jerom wrote:On January 22 2019 17:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Blizzard balances the game from the wrong end. They try to balance for winrates first, then look at design. They should do the opposite, try to get the design right first, then balance for winrates.
Most people prefer macro games to be the norm, with the occational cheese to spice things up. Right now it is the opposite in TvP, if you play macro Terran is at a severe disadvantage, so are forced to proxy just to have a chance in the midgame.
Right now those things are basically the same thing in TvP though. Terrans cheese because lategame is unwinnable. If you balance lategame you will also solve your design problems. True but I fail to see how the Thor range increase achieve this. I mean it is a step in the right direction but I really doubt it will be enough against the Protoss late game.
While it may not necessarily be enough, the adept change is pretty big. Cyber before nexus builds will no longer almost guarantee the CC delay, which will help balance the economic discrepancy that makes it so hard for T to compete with P. As it stands now, the toss can get the natural AND third up and running pretty decently before the terran can, after the change I think it will just be the third, and we can adjust for balance after that. Im willing to bet something else will need to be done to help, but people are overlooking how important the adept timing difference is.
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So will this go live today? Sonething tells me they will delay the patch to make aditional changes.
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So much has changed since blink all ins were OP in HOTS for that short time... like the huge tank buff or introduction of units like liberators.
You all are whining without much backing...
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On January 23 2019 01:32 youngjiddle wrote: So much has changed since blink all ins were OP in HOTS for that short time... like the huge tank buff or introduction of units like liberators.
You all are whining without much backing... No no no, you don't understand. Chronoboost was buffed.
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On January 23 2019 01:25 Lexender wrote: So will this go live today? Sonething tells me they will delay the patch to make aditional changes.
They said with the 22nd with the ladder reset, but the ladder reset in-game is listed as happening tomorrow, so who knows.
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On January 23 2019 01:50 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2019 01:32 youngjiddle wrote: So much has changed since blink all ins were OP in HOTS for that short time... like the huge tank buff or introduction of units like liberators.
You all are whining without much backing... No no no, you don't understand. Chronoboost was buffed.
I can't even keep track of Chronoboost's changes anymore but I doubt since they last nerf to them they aren't a problem.
Stop crying wolf.
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On January 22 2019 17:54 insitelol wrote: I, at least, admitted my single mistake, while a person who's living in a parallel universe where chronoboost was buffed
Yes, 2017 revamp.
macro became easier for protoss because f2 ignores deployed observers
+ gates auto opening, anything that require attention is huge, and protoss as less and less of that, so then macro is easier. + micro with the HT attack ( and dont say it doesnt affect the pro, it does ) + f2 friendly obs
claiming colosi were buffed
Yep they were + Show Spoiler +Thermal Lance base range increased from 6 to 7. Thermal Lance damage changed from 12 to 10 (+5 light). Protoss ground weapon upgrades will add +1 to base and +1 to light. Extended Thermal Lance cost reduced from 200/200 to 150/150. Range upgrade increased Thermal Lance range by +2 instead of +3. Colossus weapons now have turret tracking. , but i bet you knew it.
ignoring the tank 40% increased DPS on armoured units
Nice, but you dont make tanks after 7min against protoss .
also implying adepts and protoss proxies are OP
Yep, fast adept are a problem, and even the balance team agrees with that since they addressed this problem.
"not knowing half of the change".
It looks like you dont even follow/play sc2.
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On January 22 2019 17:54 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2019 07:56 WhiteSPiriT wrote:On January 21 2019 19:52 insitelol wrote:On January 21 2019 19:31 DieuCure wrote: Map vision got even easier with the f2 friendly obs +25% So you want me to take your response seriously? Good start. On January 21 2019 19:31 DieuCure wrote: Nerf WM ( ? ) Buff stalker So you can't really harass early without commiting a lot WM was nerfed not that long ago (not in the beggining of Lotv). And as far as i remember every race agreed on that, because it made sense. 1.5 tier cheap and invisible unit blowing 10 probes in an instant was clearly balanced. Stalker was buffed because it was complete trash. And i still didn't hear you mentioning a 70 damage tank buff . 40 % damage increased per shot vs "buffed" stalker.On January 21 2019 19:31 DieuCure wrote: Buff colossus Colosi was changed, not buffed. Its worse vs marauders, better vs marines. On January 21 2019 19:31 DieuCure wrote: Buff Chronoboost In what universe? On January 21 2019 19:31 DieuCure wrote: Buff zealot charge So macro became unplayable 100/100 saved for protoss midgame made macro unplayable. You got me. So. To summ it up. Removing WM invisibility and minus 100/100 on a mid-game upgraid for protoss broke TvP. Am i right? edit: sorry forgot that 8 damage buff to charge. My bad. But i still can't see it "breaking" the match up. On January 21 2019 19:31 DieuCure wrote: I'm not even mentioning the adept or proxy builds. Why not, i'm all ears. Adepts and proxy builds. Please tell. I mean you should check your facts before answering actually he is right and you don't even realize it :/ Show nested quote +On January 22 2019 08:23 DieuCure wrote: It isnt worth to answer him, he doesnt even know half of the change, acts like buffing every single unit isnt a problem at all (+making the macro easier + chronoboost+ ...), and then he wonders "What went wrong ?" ... I, at least, admitted my single mistake, while a person who's living in a parallel universe where chronoboost was buffed, macro became easier for protoss because f2 ignores deployed observers, claiming colosi were buffed, ignoring the tank 40% increased DPS on armoured units, also implying adepts and protoss proxies are OP, is speaking about others "not knowing half of the change". Typical terran. "I don't know why, but terran is underpowered". Here, a new signature for you. Thank me later.
*laughs in 88% PvT winrate*
I will say chargelots are extremely good. Like excessively good. Tempests are ALSO excessively good (soon to be mostly fixed though), especially on maps like stasis. AOE is very good as well, but theres counterplay there whereas the counterplay to tempests in current form is less reliable unless the toss is trash.
The current state of macro for the PvT matchup is favored for toss. It isn't until the midgame and/or lategame that the terran income shines over protoss income, when chronoboost is no longer being used almost exclusively on probes and is starting to be used on upgrades or tech units. Usually by this point the toss and terran have closer worker supply and the terran has mules still to put them higher. The problem is, minerals in the early game is more important than minerals in the later game, or put simply theres a bit of an exponential decay applied to the value of a flat amount of minerals as the game progresses. Because the toss can currently EASILY delay the terran natural AND get the third down much faster than the terran, they have the "Macro/Economic" advantage in the matchup currently.
Is the matchup quite as bad as a lot of people claim? Probably not. Is it still skewed across almost the entire MMR range? Definitely.
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The "Terran can't beat Protoss late game" narrative is getting old and simply not true post-tempest nerf; just stop already.
First they came after protoss lategame vs. Z, next they go after Protoss vs. T? amusing.
Probe savage.
protoss is the lagging race, remember
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What's the point of the cherry pick ?
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Patch is live on the US sever.
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Terran was the leading race during the blink era despite doing shit in every region. I wouldn't rely on Aligulac's leading/lagging stat for anything ever.
On January 23 2019 04:11 MockHamill wrote: Patch is live on the US sever. It also comes with an extra nerf to battlecruiser openings because BCs now prioritize static d over workers.
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Leading/lagging thing is about the top 10 iirc.
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Can't believe they decided to make this patch going live.
Well, as a terran, it's time to uninstall and find a game more fun to play, I don't like the all-in meta and being quite forced to go mech vs Z.
Good luck to the brave ones still playing !
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Just play the goddamn game dude.....
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On January 23 2019 03:42 youngjiddle wrote:The "Terran can't beat Protoss late game" narrative is getting old and simply not true post-tempest nerf; just stop already. First they came after protoss lategame vs. Z, next they go after Protoss vs. T? amusing. Probe savage.protoss is the lagging race, remember Agreed it's just a narrative terran players made up. In reality TvP lategame favors terran.
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I just love the people that refuse to believe that Terrans are the most talented overall at the highest level. It's not racial imbalance. Sucks that we tax good play!
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On January 23 2019 04:20 WhiteSPiriT wrote: Can't believe they decided to make this patch going live.
Well, as a terran, it's time to uninstall and find a game more fun to play, I don't like the all-in meta and being quite forced to go mech vs Z.
Good luck to the brave ones still playing ! While I don't support your intended message and am no bot, if you would like to consider a different RTS to play (besides Brood War of course) I'd recommend AoE2. It is a fun alternative for me at least.
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Lorning
Belgica34430 Posts
On January 17 2019 03:36 Ej_ wrote: Nice, now Terran will get buttfucked by Protoss before a fleet beacon is even made.
User was temp banned for this post. HAHAH
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