On March 14 2019 11:57 jy_9876543210 wrote: Macsed's response:
"说下当时情况吧,第一盘打完我觉得这个人很菜,当然所有人都和我这么说,我也觉得他很菜,然后第二盘才会选择一个低保rush因为我觉得只要过去把他门口的兵营打了就能赢,但是我过去看到他家里有个兵营没开气我以为他要开2矿,我就封了他得气,一旦封了他拿什么打我低保?可我万万没想到他这个战术是rail教他的,因为在职业内战里面这种战术是不成立的,所以我就没多想。打完这场比赛rail跑过来疯狂炫耀说是我教的,因为他知道我会觉得他是菜鸟肯定会想快点结束,然后就家里一个兵营外面3个兵营来骗我。果真我被骗到了,当时被骗到了乱导致各种失误,但是我认为就算不失误这一盘我也赢不了,因为我家里已经挡不住了,他只要在外面开个基地农民传出来也是随便赢。哎都怪我,太丢人了" My translation: "The situation was, after the first map I thought this guy is weak, of course that's also what everyone's been telling me, and I felt the same. So on the second map I decided to cannon rush since I thought I could win by destroying the gateway in his base, but when I saw his base, there's a gateway but no gas, so I thought he's gonna expand, and I blocked his gas, so he can't stop my cannon rush. But what I didn't know was that it's rail who taught him this strategy, because he knew that I would try to finish this game quickly since I thought my opponent is weak, and he tricked me by one gateway in main base and 3 proxies outside. That totally got me, and resulted in a lot of mistakes from me. But I think even if I didn't make those mistakes, I still wouldn't win that map, since I couldn't defend my base, he could just make another base and recall the probes. It's my fault, this is an embarrassing game."
On March 13 2019 11:34 dunaifen wrote: Plz just go check the replay. That match was casted by Chinese stream on Huya.com. For the second match Sed just wants to show off by using cannon rush. He failed and that's it. For those bullshit about earning some extra money before retiring, Sed currently does a job as trainers for the scboys training camp and his life is not wholly depend on winning titles.
Why would he work for scboy when he's on Invictus Gaming?
He is semi retired now.
EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious.
Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum.
On March 13 2019 11:34 dunaifen wrote: Plz just go check the replay. That match was casted by Chinese stream on Huya.com. For the second match Sed just wants to show off by using cannon rush. He failed and that's it. For those bullshit about earning some extra money before retiring, Sed currently does a job as trainers for the scboys training camp and his life is not wholly depend on winning titles.
Why would he work for scboy when he's on Invictus Gaming?
He is semi retired now.
EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious.
Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum.
I do think it is worth looking into, will be talking to the organizers.
Other than that account, there is more evidence that Seventy91 is a low level player.
1) His path to qualification for this tournament was a 2-person tournament where he lost 2-3 to this person who is only 700 rated on Aligulac and is probably below Master level. The only reason he got in is because the other person forfeited his spot. So basically, he didn't even have to win against any person to qualify for the tournament.
2) His own aligulac profile is not inspiring with many losses to mediocre players and only beating other Diamonds.
3) I am sure that the 3994 MMR account that I found belongs to him, because the clan is [sfc] which has a Liquipedia page that lists Seventy91 as part of their roster.
Can't believe how many are just writing this off as a "messy game." It's pretty silly that a guy who barely can break masters is taking a game of a "semi-retired" (?) professional player. On top of that, MacSed sees his build coming almost immediately and doesn't respond. at all.
this. Overall this looks very suspicious to me, just the coincidence of the hard swing of odds, the unnecessary cannonrush against a weaker player and incredible mistakes in gameplay are hard to write off. I think the most important thing would be checking if the redditpost belongs to the real seventy91 and if he actually is a 4k mmr player or not. If hes actually a 6k player theres a good chance someone knew about it and bet on him, maybe even himself.
macsed played like a 3k player in the game, anyone at a decent level can see that he was either fucking around or struggling with diarrhea, pick one, because playing seriously isn't an option for someone that loses 2 cannons to a single zealot when nothing else is going on.
On March 13 2019 09:38 tcb wrote: the match casted by chinese side channal.the game was macsed played a cannon rush while seventy91 played a 4 gateway zealot rush,that was a funny game. I tend to this only a coincidence~
Could we have the replay?
On March 13 2019 09:40 Saggymidgetbooty6969 wrote:
On March 13 2019 09:34 Xain0n wrote:
On March 13 2019 09:05 Nakajin wrote: Fuck
Not gonna lie it make me a bit nervous about Drager taking a map of Dark and Elazer, is he a legit pretty good player/ are the betting lines ok?
Drager is 1400 on Aligulac, his single map against Dark was actually more likely than MeomaikA beating Maru 2-0.
didnt see Meomaika maru but i assume nydus allins were involved, its incredibly easy to lose to them and theyre also insanely easy to execute to perfection so i am not suprised maru can drop a series vs a 6k zerg if the zerg is using some new nydus meme
Don't worry no one thinks Maru is matchfixing, even Life couldn't spend all the cash he made
Yes please! Gogo! Can you also upload the first game as well? We need to see the entire series.
sorry…I don't have a experence use OBS or youtube so the video quanlity is very low
This game is very suspicious. He went to cannon rush and got his probe IN. Confirmed that there was only 1 pylon, gateway incomplete, no gas, and NO CYBER. That should tell you that it's a proxy gate of some sort. What was Macsed reaction? Let's cannon rush the guy that obviously proxying me! Are you going to tell me that Macsed, a 6k+ player who got his probe in and saw a gateway that was incomplete with no gas didnt realize that it was proxy gate?
Also, after scouting and seeing no gas/cyber, Macsed floated 300+ mins from 1:40 onwards. No reaction to a possible cheese at all. At one point, Macsed got up to 500 minerals, what was he saving up for, game 3?
Despite my initial posts, and suspicious as the evidence is, we still have to give MacSed benefit of innocence and I would be so relieved to be completely wrong.
Not only is this game not suspicious, this is not match fixing. We dont have the replay and therefore have zero confirmation as to who saw what. Not to mention, most of these responses were normal. On top of that macsed has been out of play for a good while, is playing someone way worse than him, and likely just wanted to get to the next game. If this game is suspicious, MarineKing match fixed in proleague all those years ago. The betting line is weird. Its not suspicious. Just a little weird. But weirder things have happened. I HIGHLY SUGGEST PEOPLE STOP PITCHFORKING UNTIL WE SEE THE REPLAY, NOT JUST A REALLY BAD VOD.
On March 13 2019 11:34 dunaifen wrote: Plz just go check the replay. That match was casted by Chinese stream on Huya.com. For the second match Sed just wants to show off by using cannon rush. He failed and that's it. For those bullshit about earning some extra money before retiring, Sed currently does a job as trainers for the scboys training camp and his life is not wholly depend on winning titles.
Why would he work for scboy when he's on Invictus Gaming?
He is semi retired now.
EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious.
Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum.
I do think it is worth looking into, will be talking to the organizers.
As mentioned this is typical for not only macsed but for the more "OG" Chinese protoss players as well. Not outstanding mechanics or multitasking but insane but brilliant builds and strats, like Phoenix Colossus, shoutout to Jim. I really dont think this even remotely worth looking into, this is nothing more than TL and reddit being bored and needing something to do.
Imao. According to couloredfirst, Chinese biggest SC2 caster, who also be present and watahes the race, MacSed does want to play jokes with that player, and hence he chooses cannon rush, while the opponent uses 4bg with 3 bgs hidden outside. Also, how can you make such judgements to a widely-praised old player? Just because you lose your money? Life, Yoda also had their match fixing in their SPL races, so you can tell me Maru also has a match fixing vs. Meomaika?
On March 13 2019 11:34 dunaifen wrote: Plz just go check the replay. That match was casted by Chinese stream on Huya.com. For the second match Sed just wants to show off by using cannon rush. He failed and that's it. For those bullshit about earning some extra money before retiring, Sed currently does a job as trainers for the scboys training camp and his life is not wholly depend on winning titles.
Why would he work for scboy when he's on Invictus Gaming?
He is semi retired now.
EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious.
Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum.
I do think it is worth looking into, will be talking to the organizers.
As mentioned this is typical for not only macsed but for the more "OG" Chinese protoss players as well. Not outstanding mechanics or multitasking but insane but brilliant builds and strats, like Phoenix Colossus, shoutout to Jim. I really dont think this even remotely worth looking into, this is nothing more than TL and reddit being bored and needing something to do.
The sole fact that someone went ahead and bet a large amount of money on a 4k taking a game off of 6k makes this game suspect one way or another. In best case it means that someone on-site who saw the game happen live placed the bet before betting was closed. Which is, arguably, not a good thing either.
Highly suspicious game, horrible cannon rush and awful defense from 6k+. Only explanation I can see is that MacSed is aware of his MMR and playing sloppy, confident he can win next game. On the other hand, it's his 2nd match after 0-2 vs Scarlett, in group stage where score matters and it was doable group for him.
On March 13 2019 12:31 MarathonMan wrote: Not only is this game not suspicious, this is not match fixing. We dont have the replay and therefore have zero confirmation as to who saw what. Not to mention, most of these responses were normal. On top of that macsed has been out of play for a good while, is playing someone way worse than him, and likely just wanted to get to the next game. If this game is suspicious, MarineKing match fixed in proleague all those years ago. The betting line is weird. Its not suspicious. Just a little weird. But weirder things have happened. I HIGHLY SUGGEST PEOPLE STOP PITCHFORKING UNTIL WE SEE THE REPLAY, NOT JUST A REALLY BAD VOD.
There's multiple places to find the VODS. Better quality.
Why is every single poster that denies the evidence from brand new accounts? Why are all of you pulling what about isms?
On March 13 2019 12:59 yht9657 wrote: Mad gambler accusing progamer of matchfixing based on zero credible evidence, I guess that's just how esports work these days.
Mad gamblers already caught two of the biggest Starcraft pros red-handed. Guess that's how esports works.
On March 13 2019 11:34 dunaifen wrote: Plz just go check the replay. That match was casted by Chinese stream on Huya.com. For the second match Sed just wants to show off by using cannon rush. He failed and that's it. For those bullshit about earning some extra money before retiring, Sed currently does a job as trainers for the scboys training camp and his life is not wholly depend on winning titles.
Why would he work for scboy when he's on Invictus Gaming?
He is semi retired now.
EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious.
Coupled with the other information regarding skill levels and betting patterns I don't know how you draw this conclusion so easily. Should certainly be investigated at a minimum.
I do think it is worth looking into, will be talking to the organizers.
As mentioned this is typical for not only macsed but for the more "OG" Chinese protoss players as well. Not outstanding mechanics or multitasking but insane but brilliant builds and strats, like Phoenix Colossus, shoutout to Jim. I really dont think this even remotely worth looking into, this is nothing more than TL and reddit being bored and needing something to do.
A cannon rush isn't some brilliant strategy. It's been around since the 90s. And a 6k player, who had the intel advantage, throws it away and loses to a Diamond. So is MacSed just insanely terrible? Because his first match against Seventy was so one sided that Seventy just gave up and a moved before they even got to three bases.
Hey everyone, WESG admin here. I'm on-site as one of the two non-Chinese referees, and by sheer coincidence I was the one to sit right behind MacSed and Seventy91 as they played their match (they sit next to each other). I'm not here to confirm or deny any suspicions, but I think it would be valuable if I offered my perspective and a bit of info in as neutral a way as I can.
- The second game in the series was won by Seventy91. I alternated looking at both players' screens during that game, and did not notice them making any errors on purpose. Seventy91 was certainly trying very hard and got frustrated if he made a misclick. MacSed looked like he did in his previous games (I'd been a ref for another of his matches before this one): focused, looking at the screen and with pro-level APM. Again: this does not prove or disprove anything, but it's not like MacSed was afk or something, or explicitly trolling. He looked serious.
- The game was very scrappy and unusual. I haven't looked at the replay, so this is from memory from what I saw yesterday. Seventy91 went for a Zealot rush with 4 (I think?) gateways, one of which was in his main (something he later told me he did by accident, and which he said helped him win the game) and three were proxied near MacSed's base. MacSed, on the other hand, went for a cannon rush. He was unable to keep Seventy91's Zealots out of his base, and his cannon rush did not progress fast enough so he ran out of money to continue and lost the game.
- I remember a moment where MacSed lost two of his probes doing the cannon rush in Seventy91's base to a Zealot. I don't know if those were all of his probes. I was looking at Seventy91's screen at that moment and remember thinking at that time that that was a blunder by MacSed. I do not know where MacSed was looking at that moment, I didn't see his screen then. The replay will probably help with this. I don't remember having any other thoughts regarding blunders or mistakes on MacSed's end during the game.
- After game two, and as we quickly went into the third game, I remember seeing that MacSed chatted briefly with someone in the StarCraft client. They were two or three brief lines, and the other person responded quickly. I don't read Chinese so I can't say what was said, but I do know that there were at least one (but possibly two) instances of censorship in his already short messages (where the client shows !@% rather than the word you typed). My interpretation of that was that MacSed was frustrated / surprised and said something that included curse words, along the lines of 'what is this shit'.
- I have collected the replays for this match, they are looked at by people from StarLadder. I also heard (but cannot yet confirm) that the Chinese are also looking into it. Once I get to the venue today I will ask around to see who is working on this, and whether MacSed is being approached or not. I do know that one of the main event organisers (great guy, fan of StarCraft), is concerned about the issue and he was one of the people to ask me to look at this topic.
This is all the relevant info I can think of right now. If anyone has any specific questions let me know. I have to say though that I'm having a hard time reaching TeamLiquid.net and this topic in particular through the Great Firewall without VPN (which I can't get working on my laptop), so I don't think I'll be able to closely follow this topic. I'll try to look here on my phone throughout the day, but I may not be responding for a while.