Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 687
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R1CH
Netherlands10340 Posts
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Incognoto
France10234 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
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Craton
United States17153 Posts
On February 16 2019 10:09 Incognoto wrote: what's wrong with newegg these days? Got bought by a Chinese company years ago. Customer service apparently has tanked dramatically. | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20154 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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TT1
Canada9926 Posts
Anyways, just not sure what direction to go w/ the MOBO/CPU. For my build, i'm thinking: My current monitor: ASUS VG248 // 144hz 1080p // https://www.amazon.ca/VG248QE-24-inch-LED-lit-Monitor-response/dp/B00B2HH7G0/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=asus vg248&qid=1551622980&s=electronics&sr=1-1 MOBO: no idea, has to work with 2600k and future Intel CPU's tho CPU: Intel.. 2600k for now, dunno about later SSD: crucial mx500 1tb GPU: gtx 1660 ti PSU: haven't kept up with the new releases, dunno what the best options are.. prob Super Flower/Seasonic/EVGA? dunno what model/wattage tho Memory: 16gb DDR4 most likely, G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ?? Cooler: i plan on re-using my heatsink, it's an oldschool noctua.. don't remember the exact model (it's very good tho) Case: i have a really good/oldschool sound deafening case, re-using Would really appreciate some insight before i head out. Also, what are some good Intel CPU options right now? | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20154 Posts
9'th gen boards will almost certainly not be compatible with 10'th gen CPU's either. or i might just get an older Intel CPU once the prices drop. This part is also problematic for you as there isn't anything really worth replacing a 2600k with on your motherboard and RAM, yet beyond that you're dealing with the costs of a new motherboard and ddr4 anyway. We've seen a lot of performance advancement in the last year or two with fast 6 and 8 core CPU's becoming standard after it was stuck on 4 for a long time, so CPU's from the era in between then and now aren't very appealing. If you do buy a set of DDR4 for a ryzen or 9'th / 10'th gen intel setup you should get at least 3000c15 since memory performance impacts a lot of CPU-bound tasks now - the difference between 2400-2666mhz vs 4000mhz is literally +24% FPS in sc2 on my system for example. Having fast memory nowadays is often even more important than doing CPU overclocking or buying a higher priced CPU, although for some workloads it does basically nothing while for others it's enormous. There are some corsair LPX kits of samsung b-die at 3000c15 and 3200c16 which are usually cheap and don't unneccesarily block compatibility of other parts, i wouldn't buy anything below that for a ryzen2600+ or i5+ system. --- You may want to go Ryzen, dump the 2600k and grab a ryzen 2600 for now (cheapish, a good bit faster than your 2600k per-core and with 50% more cores..) with the plan of swapping it out to one of the 8c16t+ ryzen 3 CPU's which are due as a drop-in upgrade at summer time. They're supposed to be a lot faster, Intel 9900k level (8c16t with solid core performance). You would have to do some research about the motherboard that you bought to ensure that it will be able to get a bios upgrade and be updated quickly and properly to be able to take one of those new CPU's. In theory that option sounds very good but in practice it can be a pain to deal with that kind of upgrade plan. --- If you did go Intel the choices are 6c6t, 8c8t or 8c16t (i5, i7, i9) on consumer - they have more core performance than the current gen of ryzen (..until summer ) but they cost more and only the top option with a huge pricetag has HT/SMT for multi core scaling, unlike the ryzens which have it enabled even on midrange parts. Possibly a good bet if you're focusing heavily on singlethreaded performance or just want the absolute best part but otherwise the performance per dollar starts to get really questionable and they won't even be special or the best by later this year so it can be a painful investment if you're not rich. PSU: haven't kept up with the new releases, dunno what the best options are.. prob Super Flower/Seasonic/EVGA? dunno what model/wattage tho Since you're using a 120w graphics card, any amount of power on a quality unit would probably be more than enough. 550w w/ 2x 6+2 pin PCI-E connectors is good for future expandability and upgrades. Double check your cooler compatibility with whatever motherboard you want to get as well, the different sockets require different mounting hardware which you may have to ask noctua to ship to you. If you don't have those parts you may have to figure out another cooling solution for a while if you were hoping to build and get it up and running ASAP. No need to worry about gaming+recording/streaming performance, the onboard encoder on that new gen nvidia GPU paired with recent software improvements is extremely good for that. It doesn't rely on CPU or graphics core load, they've reduced the performance hit from capturing the screen to almost nothing and also improved the encoding quality-per-bit to a level that's supposedly slightly better than x264's fast preset which is a huge leap forwards in recent months. + Show Spoiler + | ||
TT1
Canada9926 Posts
On March 04 2019 02:22 Cyro wrote: Mobo's that work with the 2600k are compatible with only 2'nd or 3'rd gen core and use DDR3. We're on 9'th gen now, 10'th later this year. 9'th gen boards will almost certainly not be compatible with 10'th gen CPU's either. This part is also problematic for you as there isn't anything really worth replacing a 2600k with on your motherboard and RAM, yet beyond that you're dealing with the costs of a new motherboard and ddr4 anyway. We've seen a lot of performance advancement in the last year or two with 6 and 8 core CPU's becoming standard after it was stuck on 4 for a long time, so CPU's from the era in between then and now aren't very appealing. If you do buy a set of DDR4 for a ryzen or 9'th / 10'th gen intel setup you should get at least 3000c15 since memory performance impacts a lot of CPU-bound tasks now - the difference between 2400-2666mhz vs 4000mhz is literally +24% FPS in sc2 on my system for example. Having fast memory nowadays is often even more important than doing CPU overclocking or buying a higher priced CPU, although for some workloads it does basically nothing while for others it's enormous. There are some corsair LPX kits of samsung b-die at 3000c15 and 3200c16 which are usually cheap and don't unneccesarily block compatibility of other parts, i wouldn't buy anything below that for a ryzen2600+ or i5+ system. --- You may want to go Ryzen, dump the 2600k and grab a ryzen 2600 for now (cheapish, a good bit faster than your 2600k per-core and with 50% more cores..) with the plan of swapping it out to one of the 8c16t+ ryzen 3 CPU's which are due as a drop-in upgrade at summer time. They're supposed to be a lot faster, Intel 9900k level (8c16t with solid core performance). You would have to do some research about the motherboard that you bought to ensure that it will be able to get a bios upgrade and be updated quickly and properly to be able to take one of those new CPU's. In theory that option sounds very good but in practice it can be a pain to deal with that kind of upgrade plan. If you did go Intel the choices are 6c6t, 8c8t or 8c16t (i5, i7, i9) on consumer - they have more core performance than the current gen of ryzen (..until summer ) but they cost more and only the top option with a huge pricetag has HT/SMT for multi core scaling, unlike the ryzens which have it enabled even on midrange parts. Possibly a good bet if you're focusing heavily on singlethreaded performance but otherwise the performance per dollar starts to get really questionable. Since you're using a 120w graphics card, any amount of power on a quality unit would probably be more than enough. 550w w/ 2x 6+2 pin PCI-E connectors is good for future expandability and upgrades. Double check your cooler compatibility with whatever motherboard you want to get as well, the different sockets require different mounting hardware which you may have to ask noctua to ship to you. Yea the more i think about it, it seems more logical to go w/ a new Ryzen build. I have a spare vid card (i think its a GTX 570), i'll just throw that into my old comp (it has a 1000W PSU) and use the 1660 ti in my new build. Thoughts on this build: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/qX4jvn (hopefully MOBO works w/ future releases, thoughts on 2600 vs 2600x?) Is there a better option for the RAM (and i assume w/e ram get needs to be fully OC'd to 3000 or 3200?)? GPU will be a 1660 ti and storage will be a 1 TB Crucial MX500. Btw, is that MOBO compatible with Zen 2/future Ryzen releases? Sadly i'm 99% sure that my Windows got corrupted as well (i keep getting blue screen loops, comp is getting diagnosed tomorrow), i have to buy a new copy of Windows 10 so i might as well do the upgrade now. Would be nice if i had the option of waiting 2-4+ months . Sigh.. | ||
byte-Curious
Mexico107 Posts
What can I expect in terms of SC2 performance? Is there an upgrade path for when the next generation APUs come out or will they have a new socket? | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20154 Posts
On March 04 2019 23:33 byte-Curious wrote: I'm considering an SFF (sub 5l) build with a Ryzen 5, 2400g APU. What can I expect in terms of SC2 performance? Is there an upgrade path for when the next generation APUs come out or will they have a new socket? Should get solid FPS as long as you're fine sticking to lower graphics for that iGPU, fast memory will help both cpu and graphics performance and yes the next gen (and probably the gen after that) will share a socket with current gen but there isn't a guarantee of support from every motherboard. | ||
kknds
Sweden5 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria765 Posts
I think this looks really bad for Intel: Cores/Threads Base Clock Boost Clock TDP Price Ryzen 3 3300X 6/12 3.5GHz 4.3GHz 65W $129 $130 CPU beating a CPU like mine (i7-5820k) or at the very least being on par with it is ridiculous. | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20154 Posts
They're in a position to kick intel out of a big portion of the market on launch day if they wanted to, there's a follow up coming this year with 10nm+ Icelake though which will have considerably higher core performance and up to 10c20t on mainstream. A lot of stuff that people do either doesn't scale with that many cores anyway - many games and tasks hit a scaling wall at 2-6 cores, let alone 8, 10, 16 or 20+ threads - or they do scale well, but they run so fast on a brand new 6-10 core CPU that it's not a major concern for people. Look at game live encoding / streaming for example; this used to be the driver of MT CPU performance for gaming+media users, now it's of little relevance because all CPU's are that much faster and NVENC has advanced so much to take over their role. Turing NVENC can encode notably more efficiently than an i7 920 or 2600k could with ten times the speed and 1/10'th of the framerate loss for running it on the gaming PC, the old days have ended. That being said, many people would also run games so well on a CPU with 9900k-like performance that they also don't care about them being 15% faster at all. I won't be one of those people, but i'm a minority in being an RTS+MMO focusing 240hz zealot. Zen2 and Icelake will both be very effective CPU's for sure, the main questions are pricing and release timing. | ||
byte-Curious
Mexico107 Posts
On March 05 2019 07:25 Cyro wrote: Should get solid FPS as long as you're fine sticking to lower graphics for that iGPU, fast memory will help both cpu and graphics performance and yes the next gen (and probably the gen after that) will share a socket with current gen but there isn't a guarantee of support from every motherboard. Thank you kindly. I found a suitable sub 5 liter case, and I still have an M.2 SSD and some hard drives lying around, so the build will cost me slightly less than 400 €. 360 if the stock cooler fits. | ||
SC-Shield
Bulgaria765 Posts
On March 07 2019 16:35 Cyro wrote: Your CPU is 5 years old so it's not all that unusual in the tech world although things have slowed down recently. They're in a position to kick intel out of a big portion of the market on launch day if they wanted to, there's a follow up coming this year with 10nm+ Icelake though which will have considerably higher core performance and up to 10c20t on mainstream. A lot of stuff that people do either doesn't scale with that many cores anyway - many games and tasks hit a scaling wall at 2-6 cores, let alone 8, 10, 16 or 20+ threads - or they do scale well, but they run so fast on a brand new 6-10 core CPU that it's not a major concern for people. Look at game live encoding / streaming for example; this used to be the driver of MT CPU performance for gaming+media users, now it's of little relevance because all CPU's are that much faster and NVENC has advanced so much to take over their role. Turing NVENC can encode notably more efficiently than an i7 920 or 2600k could with ten times the speed and 1/10'th of the framerate loss for running it on the gaming PC, the old days have ended. That being said, many people would also run games so well on a CPU with 9900k-like performance that they also don't care about them being 15% faster at all. I won't be one of those people, but i'm a minority in being an RTS+MMO focusing 240hz zealot. Zen2 and Icelake will both be very effective CPU's for sure, the main questions are pricing and release timing. Maybe you're right about games but for any other tasks, simply offering more CPU cores for the same price should be a no-brainer to pick AMD, shouldn't it? For example, the Ryzen equivalent of my i7-5820k CPU might cost $130. So, this is very affordable and still offers great performance for people on budget. Unless you want to buy the best CPU for gaming (and by that I mean Intel's flagship), I really can't justify Intel's cost/performance despite never owning an AMD CPU before. I think Intel's turned into NVIDIA since a long time ago, they offer CPUs at ridiculous prices and this time Ryzen 3000 series will probably put Intel's practice on hold for a good few years. The way I see AMD's Ryzen 3000 series is: - cheaper CPU - less energy consumption (7 nm vs Intel's 10 nm for upcoming Ice Lake) - more cores - still great performance (GHz per core) at least on specification It's like there's no downside unless you're looking for the very best single-core performance, but you have to be a hardcore gamer for that. Also, based on what I've read so far, Ice Lake will be released only for laptops this year. You probably won't get it for a desktop computer until 2020. Also, another bonus is I can't seem to find a source saying that Ryzen 2 (or later) is vulnerable to either Meltdown or Spectre. :D On a different note, I think AMD should pay me for this unintentionally advertising post. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20154 Posts
Maybe you're right about games but for any other tasks, simply offering more CPU cores for the same price should be a no-brainer to pick AMD, shouldn't it? If they were offering more CPU cores at the same core performance for a lower price it would be a no brainer, that hasn't happened for as long as i've been around. Every proportional increase in CPU core count is worth less due to Amdahl's law - going from 4c to 6c is far more impactful than from 10c to 15c. At best with a theoretically perfectly scaling program they're equals but in many cases the lower core count CPU will scale enormously while the 50% increase in core count from 10c to 15c adds very little. The more cores/threads you have, the more reliant you are on ST performance for tasks that aren't essentially 100% parallel. The value of a 1% ST improvement relative to a 1% theoretical MT improvement increases extremely quickly as 1% ST adds 1% to every workload while 1% theoretical MT improves fewer and fewer workloads by smaller and smaller amounts. Many workloads that most people would consider to be parallel scale very well onto 6+ or 12+ threads but do start to run into diminishing returns or even walls with more; you'll see this start to dominate benchmarks when we're talking about 20 thread CPU's. 95% parallel is excellent for a quad core CPU but you really start to need 97-98% to maintain scaling to a few dozen threads and even 99% can cripple a high core count system because of that last 1% holding up all of the other cores. Also, another bonus is I can't seem to find a source saying that Ryzen 2 (or later) is vulnerable to either Meltdown or Spectre. :D Meltdown is specific to Intel and screwed them over quite badly, contributing heavily to the Ryze of AMD recently Spectre is an entire class of vulnerabilities that does affect all recent AMD CPU's and ARM etc. | ||
byte-Curious
Mexico107 Posts
I'm terrified of breaking them off. | ||
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
I'm back with a third build, this time for a budget gaming computer for my niece and nephew. I was thinking about going for AMD this time, but I've never tried them before, so please feel free to tell me if I got something horribly wrong, or picked sub-par parts. I used the Estonian website Faun. | ||
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