So today I decided to fill the gaping hole in my life that TSL3’s absense has givin me, by thinking about TSL4.
I realized as I dragged myself out of bed to do all the “real life” things people claim exist, that as incredably fantastic and mindblowingly awesome as TSL3 was, TSL4 will be even better. Here’s why:
If you've already seen this just read on, but if you missed it, here's my favorite piece of hype, and history, from TSL3. It actually gets more and more relevant over time.
Pretty great right? Well, it's only gonna get better.
1. The Hype
TSL3 was the most hyped up thing I’ve ever seen in my life and it was AWESOME for it. Seriously, even the men’s gold medal olympic hockey game in Victoria (about 60 minutes from Vancouver) weren’t as hyped as TSL 3 was. As the proud owner of an “Expand Your Horizons” ringtone (the TSL3 intro music), I can tell you that I really REALLY appreciated the hype. And it’s just gonna keep getting better. Next time around we won’t just have “and european you haven’t heard of X who played warcraft is gonna take on former brood-war player Y” We have a STARCRAFT 2 BACKSTORY. How well they did last time, and the player who defeated them is going to be far more relevant than it was for TSL 2 vs TSL 3. Many of us started watching e-sports after starcraft 2’s release, and now we have seen the awesomeness that it can be. Not only that, but with the MLG-GSL player exchange there’s a great chance of some epic rivalries popping up between some of the koreans and our own foreigners, which brings me to my next point.
2. The World will be Ready
The sweet taste of Thorzain’s victory over Fruitdealer gradually turned to ash in my mouth as Korean after Korean went down in the first round. Admittedly, they were all EPIC games (Nestea vs Goody and QXC vs Genius especially IMO), but one way or another whether it was lag or experience versus foreigners it seemed that the Koreans were not prepared. Fortunately by the RO 16 MC was acutely aware of what the foreigners were capable of and pushed on to that glorious series against ThorZain. But MC and Boxer were the last of their kind by the Round of 8, all others having fallen early in the tournament. I'm sure that those who went quickly are hungry for their revenge, ruing the day so many of them were crushed by the fearsome fighting foreigners. Make no mistake, when TSL4 rolls around, Korea will be ready.
Meanwhile, you know what’s going on right now? China is hosting their first big SC2 tournament since Beta... and they’ve beat us. I now find myself cheering for MC against the red menace -jk, I <3 China- that has defeated all of the foreigners in the Gigabyte Starwars tournament. It seems that China too is on the rise, and with them will come new names and awesome stories.
With pros from China and Korea being more prepared, you can expect more fans to join in. Even though 70k fans watching the finals was pretty fricken sweet, can you IMAGINE if there had been a korean in the finals!? And soon the Chinese players will have a following too. Yes, as amazing as TSL 3 was, TSL 4 will be out of this world due to the ever growing fan-base.
3. The game will be more balanced OR it'll be more awesome
Have you watched PvP lately? How many archons were used in PvP a month ago? Not a heck of a lot. The times, they are a changing my friends, and by the time TSL4 rolls around hopefully every matchup is balanced and exciting. If it’s not quite balanced yet, then there’s an equally awesome reason for that: Bolding that because apparently I need to. Just saying that there is no downside tho, either it'll be more balanced, or it'll be new and exciting due to this:
4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
There’s a significant chance that TSL 4 will in fact be the first big SC2 HoTS tournament. Think about that for a second. It’s a long-shot, but timing wise it could happen. And it would be glorious! New units, strategies, and who knows what. Now, this is Blizzard we’re talking about, so who know’s when HoTS will come out but I’m just saying, if it’s a year off then the times could work out nicely.
5. It has huge shoes to fill
There’s no denying that TSL 3 was some of, if not unequivocally the BEST sc2 tournament play we’ve seen. But from the sounds of it, TSL is always like that. Perhaps its the open qualification process, perhaps its the prestige of being THE foriegner tournament. Probably some combination of the above, but no one can deny that TSL 3 was fantastic, players played their absolute best, and when times looked bleak called upon the gods themselves to give them the strength to succeed. (cough, seriously, Thorzain seemed like he had a touch of divinity to him in game 6 of the finals). TSL 4 is gonna have big shoes to fill, and I believe that it will indeed exceed even our wildest expectations.
I’m one of the guys who voted “maybe wait a bit” for TSL 4. As much as I want to watch it right this second I realize that given more time it can only be better and better.
Edit: I'm actually going to keep a little section updated here because some fascinating things are happening right now.
Rivalries IdrA vs Protoss (and the world) Obviously IdrA has several rivalries, but none are more prominent at the time of writing as two protoss... And possibly soon to be a third.
We all remember the infamous from Cruncher, as he defeated IdrA in TSL3. Not long after that, this happened:
Currently at MLG Columbus, Cruncher lurks in the open bracket about to take on IdrA's teammate EGAxSlav. More importantly however, HuK's Korean Brotoss MC has been 2-0d by IdrA. In an interview afterwards MC said he wasn't playing his best and that he will still go on to win this tournament. Could we see a potential third protoss rival of IdrA forming? Lets hope so! As an IdrA anti fan --though he is playing PHENOMENALLY this MLG tournament-- I yearn to see MC take a game off of him and then in the next game say: "you realize of course, half my army was halluc"
Edit: Sure enough, at Columbus the MC vs Idra rivalry was born. "Are you angry?"
Meanwhile, MC does have a very busy week ahead of him. After MLG collumbus he has to fly to China for the Star Wars tourny. Will Korea's best be able to defeat China's best? Could there be a new regional rivalry there? First of all, will the MLG champion this time be Korean, European, or North American? Only time will tell.
Team Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Edit: But also... Dare I say it, Team EG fighting?
Prior to very recently IdrA was in many ways the face of EG. Yes Incontrol is amazing, but when people think of EG they don't think of well mannered body builders, they think of IdrA and everything associated with him. Now that HuK is on team EG, there's even more layers of story. Will they be able to bury the hatchet? Who will be the most successful team EG player? Idra, HuK, or Puma? When will HuK first have to fight one of his former team mates? All this and more await with TSL 4.
I thought the most hyped up thing was the NASL haha.
Though yeh I can't wait for TSL (also voted wait a bit though, for suspension and hype)
It all depends on the games played, I don't think we will ever forget the amazing games of naniwa vs thorzain for example. If the TSL 4 final will be a roflstomp it might leave a.bit of bitter taste.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: 4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
I sure hope not! I don't want to wait that long!
I was once like you, about eleven years ago when a company named Blizzard announced a game called Warcraft Three and I put it on my christmas wish list...
Three years later I had developed a nervous twitch where I would scream in agony whenever somebody dared to mention the word "soon".
Lol, jk but... I wouldn't hold your breath for blizzard is all I'm saying. They make great games but they take their damn time. That being said, the last two wow expansions have been prompt and they certainly have the staff now to get things done so who knows?
Well! That was really fun to read, and it really serves to make me even more hyped for TSL4! We already had some amazing players in the TSL3, so the biggest hype for the TSL4 is just how awesome the TSL3 was!
Good reasoning and mostly what I would have said would I not have been occupied with "real life" things.
Apart from that, if you could write foreigners correctly, that would be very nice to the eye. For some reason, a lot of english-speaking people, especially from northern america, either do not care or know whether to put the i in front or behind the e, if an "ei" or "ie" comes up in any word (receiver, wiener, believer, you name it). Kinda worries me.
I enjoyed the intro music so much I free-renamed my self HorizoN. You guys did a great job with the song. I really appreciate good music accompanying the tournament, it's very important to me, although I may be alone with that, and tsl did a great job.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: 4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
I sure hope not! I don't want to wait that long!
I was once like you, about eleven years ago when a company named Blizzard announced a game called Warcraft Three and I put it on my christmas wish list...
Three years later I had developed a nervous twitch where I would scream in agony whenever somebody dared to mention the word "soon".
Lol, jk but... I wouldn't hold your breath for blizzard is all I'm saying. They make great games but they take their damn time. That being said, the last two wow expansions have been prompt and they certainly have the staff now to get things done so who knows?
I think the most epic timing for TSL4 would be just before HoTS release, and by just before I mean the finals are the day before release. This would be epic because it would basically crown the king of WoL and then a new chapter opens with HoTS.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: 4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
I sure hope not! I don't want to wait that long!
I was once like you, about eleven years ago when a company named Blizzard announced a game called Warcraft Three and I put it on my christmas wish list...
Three years later I had developed a nervous twitch where I would scream in agony whenever somebody dared to mention the word "soon".
Lol, jk but... I wouldn't hold your breath for blizzard is all I'm saying. They make great games but they take their damn time. That being said, the last two wow expansions have been prompt and they certainly have the staff now to get things done so who knows?
TSL3 was the most hyped up thing I’ve ever seen in my life and it was AWESOME for it. Seriously, even the men’s gold medal olympic hockey game in Victoria (about 30 minutes from Vancouver)
You sure you were in Victoria at the time?
I do agree on one point however. TSL3 was really hyped up, and it wasn't just a "HOLY CRAP TSL3" moment, it had the action to back it up. TSL4 Soon I hope
I'd like to see TSL4 coincide with the HotS beta the way TSL2 coincided with the SC2 beta. The more the game's "figured out" the less likely it is people will win by catching people off guard with cheese instead of strictly outplaying them. It'll still happen sometimes (Nony vs Idra being the prime example) and I'm not saying it shouldn't, but TSL2 was probably the highest skill level we saw in a foreigner BW tournament and I'd like TSL4 to be that for WoL.
i dont see why everything is getting hayped and every commentator is "pumped" about the next game, even though its mostly pretty irrelevant. hype loses its effect if its overdone gain and again.
On May 26 2011 11:21 StuBob wrote: I want TSL 4 to be this summer. have one every 3~4 months, I say
Too much of a good thing is bad ... even your favorite food gets boring when you have it every day. So lets not have that many TSLs per year and they need to have lots of qualifiers first and that takes time anyways.
Also, one thing I disliked about this TSL (And the only thing) that, what was the point of having both finalists to travel to TL Headquarters and not to video them during stream? Finals weren't different at all from rest of tournament, just POV from casters. Kind of useless traveling for players
On May 26 2011 13:40 Turo wrote: Just FYI - Victoria is on Vancouver Island, and no hockey games were held there.
The ferry ride from Vancouver to Victoria is approximately just longer than an hour and a half.
Right I exagerated by a half hour, sue me. And it didn't matter that no hockey games were held there, the place still went balistic when we won. I was hanging out of a tree downtown highfiving police officers. True story.
On May 26 2011 11:08 jalstar wrote: I'd like to see TSL4 coincide with the HotS beta the way TSL2 coincided with the SC2 beta. The more the game's "figured out" the less likely it is people will win by catching people off guard with cheese instead of strictly outplaying them. It'll still happen sometimes (Nony vs Idra being the prime example) and I'm not saying it shouldn't, but TSL2 was probably the highest skill level we saw in a foreigner BW tournament and I'd like TSL4 to be that for WoL.
I´d like the timing to be at least somewhat differrent. TSL2 was SOOO awesome, then the Beta came around after the semis and suddenly the Finals werent as big as they could have been
If TSL starts any soon (like this summer), it will inevitably lose viewers. There are just too many tournaments going on all the time and if you have 2-3 TSL a year, it will just not feel special anymore. Personally I really like the idea of having TSL after HotS release.
TSL4 will be awesome, the will be more players who will be at their peak by then as well as all the different scenes such as china, korea, europe and america!!! Wonder where we will be in a yeras time. Probably China=Korea>Europe>America!!!
On May 26 2011 13:40 Turo wrote: Just FYI - Victoria is on Vancouver Island, and no hockey games were held there.
The ferry ride from Vancouver to Victoria is approximately just longer than an hour and a half.
Right I exagerated by a half hour, sue me. And it didn't matter that no hockey games were held there, the place still went balistic when we won. I was hanging out of a tree downtown highfiving police officers. True story.
But thank you to those who enjoyed my post
Nice that is awesome, the place I was at went crazy too! No cops though. =P
and sorry about correcting you, just thought you legitimately didn't know and would want the facts.
I would like TSL3 to be on the WoL field, before the launch of HotS. New HotS units have high chances of being imbalanced (too strong/weak+people still getting used to integrating them into their builds and using proper counters). TSL 5 can be played ~a month after HotS launch.
On May 26 2011 13:40 Turo wrote: Just FYI - Victoria is on Vancouver Island, and no hockey games were held there.
The ferry ride from Vancouver to Victoria is approximately just longer than an hour and a half.
Right I exagerated by a half hour, sue me. And it didn't matter that no hockey games were held there, the place still went balistic when we won. I was hanging out of a tree downtown highfiving police officers. True story.
But thank you to those who enjoyed my post
Nice that is awesome, the place I was at went crazy too! No cops though. =P
and sorry about correcting you, just thought you legitimately didn't know and would want the facts.
On May 26 2011 11:21 StuBob wrote: I want TSL 4 to be this summer. have one every 3~4 months, I say
To be a truly special tournament, I think TSL should be conducted once per year at max.
I disagree. I think 2-3 times a year would be absolutely perfect. It would be like the MSL/OSL of bw, lasts 2-3 months but only like 2-3 a year. I am praying thats what TSL does ^_^
I think what made it amazing was the players had time to prepare (if they chose to). This allowed players to try and figure each other out and we end up with amazing diversity of play in a single series. The finals are testiment to this.
The same should be said for the tournament. Thus TSL, once a year for me plz ;-)
Man, I'm still so proud of Thorzain for beating NesTea AND MC. I mean, he just had a crazy road to victory.
Awesome post though. And a lot of people are saying that they should wait between TSLs otherwise it gets boring or stale, but I'd like to point out that the qualifiers and actual tournament take a long time to commence which makes the suspense EPIC and means you could start one every few months and still only have 2 a year, 3 at absolute max.
On May 26 2011 07:38 R0YAL wrote: I think the most epic timing for TSL4 would be just before HoTS release, and by just before I mean the finals are the day before release. This would be epic because it would basically crown the king of WoL and then a new chapter opens with HoTS.
I like this idea a lot! Tho with Blizzard timmings it would be pretty much impossible for TL to time something like this perfectly...
I'll be really pissed if TSL4 takes anywhere near as long as HotS. HotS is probably two november's away, *at least*. Anyone who thinks it'll be earlier needs to read up on a company called "Blizzard".
That said, I totally agree. TSL4 has a good chance to be bigger than TSL3, and that's just mind blowing.
TSL was great and fun to watch but casting replay's will never compare to a live tournament where players are sitting in booths next to each other and so on. But still, well done and I look forward to TSL4.
The biggest thing for me would be a rebroadcast schedule at a reasonable time for people outside of America. Although I was excited about the TSL matches, the fact that they were broadcast at 3am KST meant that I couldn't watch live, and although I could in theory watch the vods, most of the time I just ended up checking the LR threads to see the results =/
I fully appreciate how epic the tournament was, but it's hard to really "feel it" unless you can watch a live or delayed broadcast. Just my two cents...
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: 4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
I sure hope not! I don't want to wait that long!
I was once like you, about eleven years ago when a company named Blizzard announced a game called Warcraft Three and I put it on my christmas wish list...
Three years later I had developed a nervous twitch where I would scream in agony whenever somebody dared to mention the word "soon".
Lol, jk but... I wouldn't hold your breath for blizzard is all I'm saying. They make great games but they take their damn time. That being said, the last two wow expansions have been prompt and they certainly have the staff now to get things done so who knows?
I feel the same way for Guildwars 2.... That game was meant to bloody beta in the summer of 08 and come out the year after....
I wanted to start a discussion here because I don't have the ability to make topics yet, but I think that the TSL needs a format change. I think that as is (single elimination), the tournament both goes by too quickly and doesn't allow for a large number of high profile games. Just take the NASL in comparison: In the group stages, everyone plays each other in a Bo3 at least once.
Now, I am not saying that we need an extremely long drawn out format. But a longer format has two advantages: 1) allows for more "high interest" games between popular players and 2) somewhat reduces randomness in that players don't get knocked out so easily (more matches gives a better chance that the better player will advance).
The format wasn't like this before, so probably the people in charge didn't like running a longer tournament. However, I think that a 32 player tournament of such high caliber such as the TSL should start with group stages. Personally, it just felt like TSL3 went by too fast (still loved it though), and that certain players that I like were eliminated really quickly (or not convincingly enough) really added to this effect.
In my opinion the heart of the swarm has the potential to ruin TSL 4 more than anything else. Its the only thing that can bring SC2 back to the shitty game it was a year ago.
That being said, I still have huge expectations on TSL4 and its something I look forward to!
On May 30 2011 10:44 pavement ist rad wrote: I wanted to start a discussion here because I don't have the ability to make topics yet, but I think that the TSL needs a format change. I think that as is (single elimination), the tournament both goes by too quickly and doesn't allow for a large number of high profile games. Just take the NASL in comparison: In the group stages, everyone plays each other in a Bo3 at least once.
Now, I am not saying that we need an extremely long drawn out format. But a longer format has two advantages: 1) allows for more "high interest" games between popular players and 2) somewhat reduces randomness in that players don't get knocked out so easily (more matches gives a better chance that the better player will advance).
The format wasn't like this before, so probably the people in charge didn't like running a longer tournament. However, I think that a 32 player tournament of such high caliber such as the TSL should start with group stages. Personally, it just felt like TSL3 went by too fast (still loved it though), and that certain players that I like were eliminated really quickly (or not convincingly enough) really added to this effect.
Im totally against a longer format. The current format is great and it only adds to the excitment to know that every game is an important game. I personally cant follow drawn out leagues like the NASL due to lack of time and lack of excitment when I know they can lose a set and be OK. To be frank, I think leagues are boing.
If HotS will be released shortly before TSL4 your prediction of more balanced gameplay will be wrong. HotS will bring a lot of new strategies and therefore wil unbalance the game again for a while.
on the other hand i DO think TSL4 is gonna be more awesome than ever
On May 30 2011 10:44 pavement ist rad wrote: I wanted to start a discussion here because I don't have the ability to make topics yet, but I think that the TSL needs a format change. I think that as is (single elimination), the tournament both goes by too quickly and doesn't allow for a large number of high profile games. Just take the NASL in comparison: In the group stages, everyone plays each other in a Bo3 at least once.
Now, I am not saying that we need an extremely long drawn out format. But a longer format has two advantages: 1) allows for more "high interest" games between popular players and 2) somewhat reduces randomness in that players don't get knocked out so easily (more matches gives a better chance that the better player will advance).
The format wasn't like this before, so probably the people in charge didn't like running a longer tournament. However, I think that a 32 player tournament of such high caliber such as the TSL should start with group stages. Personally, it just felt like TSL3 went by too fast (still loved it though), and that certain players that I like were eliminated really quickly (or not convincingly enough) really added to this effect.
I don't quite agree with the idea of single/double elimination tournaments just because of how quickly they end. And on the note of the TSL3, it hardly ended quickly, only ever running on weekends with a huge wait to find out what happens next.
I don't quite agree with the idea of single/double elimination tournaments because I feel like they don't really show who the skilled players are.
One player can have a lucky winning streak or unlucky losing streak or end up having to face really hard opponents in their bracket and have people's opinions on their skill affected by the outcome of so few games.
I perfer round robin formats because I think if a player faces everyone who their opponents face in the same group then it would give a better idea of matchup imbalances, winrates, who is skilled etc.
Look at Grubby and Artosis in the NASL for instance. Artosis has been doing really badly barely winning any games except in that series where he outplayed Grubby who was just doing some really risky, unorthodox play. At the same time, Grubby has had a few unlucky 1 - 2 losses where he's just been outright outplayed or was doing something at the wrong moment at the wrong time.
If they say..... lost first round of a single elimination tournament against a difficult player, we wouldn't think "Wow, he isn't skilled at all." We'd think "Damn, unlucky...."
On May 27 2011 21:37 Smackzilla wrote: I'll be really pissed if TSL4 takes anywhere near as long as HotS. HotS is probably two november's away, *at least*. Anyone who thinks it'll be earlier needs to read up on a company called "Blizzard".
I did. Here are my results concerning time between game release and first addon release: Starcraft: March 1998, Brood War November 1998 -> 8 months Diablo II June 2000, LoD June 2001 -> 12 months Warcraft III July 2002, TFT July 2003 -> 12 months WoW November 2004, The Burning Crusade January 2007 -> 26 months
On May 26 2011 02:57 Mithriel wrote: It all depends on the games played, I don't think we will ever forget the amazing games of naniwa vs thorzain for example. If the TSL 4 final will be a roflstomp it might leave a.bit of bitter taste.
This is not possible:
TSL 1: IefNaij vs. Draco, best of 5 Draco leading 2-0 and IefNaij then going on a 3 game winning streak to take the final with 3-2
TSL 2: Tyler (NonY) vs. Mondragon, best of 7 Mondragon winning the first 2 games convincingly (at least my memory atm is telling me it was convincingly) before NonY managed to pull himself together and going on a rampage closing the deal with a 4 game winning streak. 4-2 NonY.
TSL 3: ThorZain vs. NaNiwa, best of 7 ThorZain winning the first game before going on to lose the next 3. 3-1 NaNiwa where he has 3 games to close the deal. But yet again the man behind (in this case ThorZain) pulls of a miracle by winning the next 3 games and winning 4-3
All 3 TSL finals are worth watching over and over. So you see a TSL final can only be epic. It's destiny.
So today I decided to fill the gaping hole in my life that TSL3’s absense has givin me, by thinking about TSL4.
I realized as I dragged myself out of bed to do all the “real life” things people claim exist, that as incredably fantastic and mindblowingly awesome as TSL3 was, TSL4 will be even better. Here’s why:
1. The Hype
TSL3 was the most hyped up thing I’ve ever seen in my life and it was AWESOME for it. Seriously, even the men’s gold medal olympic hockey game in Victoria (about 60 minutes from Vancouver) weren’t as hyped as TSL 3 was. As the proud owner of an “Expand Your Horizons” ringtone (the TSL3 intro music), I can tell you that I really REALLY appreciated the hype. And it’s just gonna keep getting better. Next time around we won’t just have “and european you haven’t heard of X who played warcraft is gonna take on former brood-war player Y” We have a STARCRAFT 2 BACKSTORY. How well they did last time, and the player who defeated them is going to be far more relevant than it was for TSL 2 vs TSL 3. Many of us started watching e-sports after starcraft 2’s release, and now we have seen the awesomeness that it can be. Not only that, but with the MLG-GSL player exchange there’s a great chance of some epic rivalries popping up between some of the koreans and our own foriegners, which brings me to my next point.
2. The World will be Ready
The sweet taste of Thorzain’s victory over Fruitdealer gradually turned to ash in my mouth as Korean after Korean went down in the first round. Admittedly, they were all EPIC games (Nestea vs Goody and QXC vs Genius especially IMO), but one way or another it seemed that the Koreans were not prepared. Fortunately by the RO 16 MC was acutely aware of what the foriegners were capable of and pushed on to that glorious series against ThorZain. But MC and Boxer were the last of their kind by the Round of 8, all others having fallen early in the tournament and I'm sure that those who went quickly are hungry for their revenge, so the Koreans will be ready.
Meanwhile, you know what’s going on right now? China is hosting their first big SC2 tournament since Beta... and they’ve beat us. I now find myself cheering for MC against the red menace -jk, I <3 China- that has defeated all of the foreigners in the Gigabyte Starwars tournament. It seems that China too is on the rise, and with them will come new names and awesome stories.
With pros from China and Korea being more prepared, you can expect more fans to join in. Even though 70k fans watching the finals was pretty fricken sweet, can you IMAGINE if there had been a korean in the finals!? And soon the Chinese players will have a following too. Yes, as amazing as TSL 3 was, TSL 4 will be out of this world due to the ever growing fan-base.
3. The game will be more balanced OR it'll be more awesome
Have you watched PvP lately? How many archons were used in PvP a month ago? Not a heck of a lot. The times, they are a changing my friends, and by the time TSL4 rolls around hopefully every matchup is balanced and exciting. If it’s not quite balanced yet, then there’s an equally awesome reason for that: Bolding that because apparently I need to. Just saying that there is no downside tho, either it'll be more balanced, or it'll be new and exciting due to HoTS
4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
There’s a significant chance that TSL 4 will in fact be the first big SC2 HoTS tournament. Think about that for a second. It’s a long-shot, but timing wise it could happen. And it would be glorious! New units, strategies, and who knows what. Now, this is Blizzard we’re talking about, so who know’s when HoTS will come out but I’m just saying, if it’s a year off then the times could work out nicely.
5. It has huge shoes to fill
There’s no denying that TSL 3 was some of, if not unequivocally the BEST sc2 tournament play we’ve seen. But from the sounds of it, TSL is always like that. Perhaps its the open qualification process, perhaps its the prestige of being THE foriegner tournament. Probably some combination of the above, but no one can deny that TSL 3 was fantastic, players played their absolute best, and when times looked bleak called upon the gods themselves to give them the strength to succeed. (cough, seriously, Thorzain seemed like he had a touch of divinity to him in game 6 of the finals). TSL 4 is gonna have big shoes to fill, and I believe that it will indeed exceed even our wildest expectations.
I’m one of the guys who voted “maybe wait a bit” for TSL 4. As much as I want to watch it right this second I realize that given more time it can only be better and better.
Team Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Didn't even read your post, just wanted to say that you're username is amazing. You can call me...the dougler!
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: 4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
I sure hope not! I don't want to wait that long!
I was once like you, about eleven years ago when a company named Blizzard announced a game called Warcraft Three and I put it on my christmas wish list...
Three years later I had developed a nervous twitch where I would scream in agony whenever somebody dared to mention the word "soon".
Lol, jk but... I wouldn't hold your breath for blizzard is all I'm saying. They make great games but they take their damn time. That being said, the last two wow expansions have been prompt and they certainly have the staff now to get things done so who knows?
this is an awesome OP, and I just got some chills thinking about the next TSL, I can't wait better than any GSL to date imo, an epic backstory for EVERYONE and an even more epic finals.
Great post OP, I Can't wait for the next one. I do hope though that there won't be too many of them or it will lose its feel of epicness, I think 2 a year would be a good number. I also hope that there will be no invites this time(besides the top 3 seeded players ofc). Would be cool to have the qualifiers like 1 NA->1EU->1KR or have it the same NA/EU alternating and just allow Koreans who have accounts on NA/EU to play in it. Love seeing Koreans in the tournaments but I don't think invites are the way to go, they have to fight and earn there way in and prove they are the best.
I'd like to see TSL4 coincide with the HotS beta the way TSL2 coincided with the SC2 beta. The more the game's "figured out" the less likely it is people will win by catching people off guard with cheese instead of strictly outplaying them . . .
I dunno man, i completely understand where you are coming from as in someways it will make things more interesting watching all the pro's playing a new style of SC that they haven't yet been able to "perfect". However, in my opinion i think that makes for more interesting viewing, watching the sheer skill and control some of these players have! Look at MLG, watching the pure talent of players like MMA and Losira. The games that MLG provided really were top-notch games and i think TSL should take the opportunity to compete with the standards shown in MLG before the release of the Beta.
Thats just my opinion and i cant wait too see when the TSL does actually go ahead!
Every TSL has been so epic. every finals has delievered twice as epic games as ANYONE could hope for. best tournament around, keep it yearly, keep it how it is. everything about it is so good. you dont have the map pool/rule issues of MLG, the stream issues of NASL, the having to pay for VoDs of every other site.. AND you get the best players.
A bigger player qualifier, new format, more pro players Ro4 gets brought to NY. - real close look at the players over a week. - TL rents a bigger place. - Studio with cameras, - Live video feed all the time, with player interviews inbetween, commentators on place. - Live streams from TSL Finals gatherings of fans with reporters and fan interviews.
(PS. Dont mind stream & TL with more ads, for more money into the event)
I think many of you guys will be interested in that tournament as it's results likely WILL have an impact on TSL4's selection process and/or backstory.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: 4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
I sure hope not! I don't want to wait that long!
I was once like you, about eleven years ago when a company named Blizzard announced a game called Warcraft Three and I put it on my christmas wish list...
Three years later I had developed a nervous twitch where I would scream in agony whenever somebody dared to mention the word "soon".
Lol, jk but... I wouldn't hold your breath for blizzard is all I'm saying. They make great games but they take their damn time. That being said, the last two wow expansions have been prompt and they certainly have the staff now to get things done so who knows?
That would be true, but now activision is involved and rushes blizzard
But I don't agree with koreans losing due to not being prepared. It doesn't take rocket science to explain why koreans are performing so poorly online when they completely obliterates all westerners on LAN events. Saying that they weren't prepared is simply not true, these guys practice like noone else, every day - they're NEVER not prepared.
If anything this takes away a lot of excitement from the competition, knowing that koreans are forced to play with much higher ping. It's not nearly as interesting to watch a top korean player with 500ms compared to seeing the same person compete in GSL for example.
Funny thing is, despite their ping disadvantage, they can still beat a lot of west's top players.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: So today I decided to fill the gaping hole in my life that TSL3’s absense has givin me, by thinking about TSL4.
I realized as I dragged myself out of bed to do all the “real life” things people claim exist, that as incredably fantastic and mindblowingly awesome as TSL3 was, TSL4 will be even better. Here’s why:
1. The Hype
TSL3 was the most hyped up thing I’ve ever seen in my life and it was AWESOME for it. Seriously, even the men’s gold medal olympic hockey game in Victoria (about 60 minutes from Vancouver) weren’t as hyped as TSL 3 was. As the proud owner of an “Expand Your Horizons” ringtone (the TSL3 intro music), I can tell you that I really REALLY appreciated the hype. And it’s just gonna keep getting better. Next time around we won’t just have “and european you haven’t heard of X who played warcraft is gonna take on former brood-war player Y” We have a STARCRAFT 2 BACKSTORY. How well they did last time, and the player who defeated them is going to be far more relevant than it was for TSL 2 vs TSL 3. Many of us started watching e-sports after starcraft 2’s release, and now we have seen the awesomeness that it can be. Not only that, but with the MLG-GSL player exchange there’s a great chance of some epic rivalries popping up between some of the koreans and our own foriegners, which brings me to my next point.
2. The World will be Ready
The sweet taste of Thorzain’s victory over Fruitdealer gradually turned to ash in my mouth as Korean after Korean went down in the first round. Admittedly, they were all EPIC games (Nestea vs Goody and QXC vs Genius especially IMO), but one way or another it seemed that the Koreans were not prepared. Fortunately by the RO 16 MC was acutely aware of what the foriegners were capable of and pushed on to that glorious series against ThorZain. But MC and Boxer were the last of their kind by the Round of 8, all others having fallen early in the tournament and I'm sure that those who went quickly are hungry for their revenge, so the Koreans will be ready.
Meanwhile, you know what’s going on right now? China is hosting their first big SC2 tournament since Beta... and they’ve beat us. I now find myself cheering for MC against the red menace -jk, I <3 China- that has defeated all of the foreigners in the Gigabyte Starwars tournament. It seems that China too is on the rise, and with them will come new names and awesome stories.
With pros from China and Korea being more prepared, you can expect more fans to join in. Even though 70k fans watching the finals was pretty fricken sweet, can you IMAGINE if there had been a korean in the finals!? And soon the Chinese players will have a following too. Yes, as amazing as TSL 3 was, TSL 4 will be out of this world due to the ever growing fan-base.
3. The game will be more balanced OR it'll be more awesome
Have you watched PvP lately? How many archons were used in PvP a month ago? Not a heck of a lot. The times, they are a changing my friends, and by the time TSL4 rolls around hopefully every matchup is balanced and exciting. If it’s not quite balanced yet, then there’s an equally awesome reason for that: Bolding that because apparently I need to. Just saying that there is no downside tho, either it'll be more balanced, or it'll be new and exciting due to HoTS
4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
There’s a significant chance that TSL 4 will in fact be the first big SC2 HoTS tournament. Think about that for a second. It’s a long-shot, but timing wise it could happen. And it would be glorious! New units, strategies, and who knows what. Now, this is Blizzard we’re talking about, so who know’s when HoTS will come out but I’m just saying, if it’s a year off then the times could work out nicely.
5. It has huge shoes to fill
There’s no denying that TSL 3 was some of, if not unequivocally the BEST sc2 tournament play we’ve seen. But from the sounds of it, TSL is always like that. Perhaps its the open qualification process, perhaps its the prestige of being THE foriegner tournament. Probably some combination of the above, but no one can deny that TSL 3 was fantastic, players played their absolute best, and when times looked bleak called upon the gods themselves to give them the strength to succeed. (cough, seriously, Thorzain seemed like he had a touch of divinity to him in game 6 of the finals). TSL 4 is gonna have big shoes to fill, and I believe that it will indeed exceed even our wildest expectations.
I’m one of the guys who voted “maybe wait a bit” for TSL 4. As much as I want to watch it right this second I realize that given more time it can only be better and better.
Edit: I'm actually going to keep a little section updated here because some fascinating things are happening right now.
Rivalries IdrA vs Protoss (and the world) Obviously IdrA has several rivalries, but none are more prominent at the time of writing as two protoss... And possibly soon to be a third.
We all remember the infamous from Cruncher, as he defeated IdrA in TSL3. Not long after that, this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ4PCX2AYtY Dunno if I can embed that here somehow, but that's HuK Hallucinating Voidrays and causing IdrA to leave the game and the resulting exchange of words.
Currently MLG Columbus, Cruncher lurks in the open bracket about to take on IdrA's teammate EGAxSlav. More importantly however, HuK's Korean Brotoss MC has been 2-0d by IdrA. In an interview afterwards MC said he wasn't playing his best and that he will still go on to win this tournament. Could we see a potential third protoss rival of IdrA forming? Lets hope so! As an IdrA anti fan --though he is playing PHENOMENALLY this MLG tournament-- I yearn to see MC take a game off of him and then in the next game say: "you realize of course, half my army was halluc"
Meanwhile, MC does have a very busy week ahead of him. After MLG collumbus he has to fly to China for the Star Wars tourny. Will Korea's best be able to defeat China's best? Could there be a new regional rivalry there? First of all, will the MLG champion this time be Korean, European, or North American? Only time will tell.
Team Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Theres a little problem though. Blizzard have publically announced that heart of the swarm and all other expansions will ONLY affect the single player, cause otherwise there would be shitloads of new units and things to come. Maps and unit changes will definetly come, but not any other units then the one's created since the starcraft 2 engine we're beginning it's design. It have taken to long to make the multiplayer units fully functional and unbugged, during just the beta section there we're ONLY testings about the units, so that would need a whole new beta stage for the multiplayer section for new units to come + they all need to be balanced and have a nice input/output of damage for the whole already existing multiplayer scene, and ofcourse it would take a new unit for ALL races to be fair for every race, or there would probably be a big race switch for top tier players that would use the new unbalanced unit to their advantage in new strategy's that havent already been nerfed by Blizzard.
So m8, please dont think there will be new multiplayer units, it wont. And check out the new Beta realases of Heart of the swarm, its not so exciting as you think. The units existing in it is about the same but with new features, just like if a good map maker did make a really long MMORPG.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: So today I decided to fill the gaping hole in my life that TSL3’s absense has givin me, by thinking about TSL4.
I realized as I dragged myself out of bed to do all the “real life” things people claim exist, that as incredably fantastic and mindblowingly awesome as TSL3 was, TSL4 will be even better. Here’s why:
1. The Hype
TSL3 was the most hyped up thing I’ve ever seen in my life and it was AWESOME for it. Seriously, even the men’s gold medal olympic hockey game in Victoria (about 60 minutes from Vancouver) weren’t as hyped as TSL 3 was. As the proud owner of an “Expand Your Horizons” ringtone (the TSL3 intro music), I can tell you that I really REALLY appreciated the hype. And it’s just gonna keep getting better. Next time around we won’t just have “and european you haven’t heard of X who played warcraft is gonna take on former brood-war player Y” We have a STARCRAFT 2 BACKSTORY. How well they did last time, and the player who defeated them is going to be far more relevant than it was for TSL 2 vs TSL 3. Many of us started watching e-sports after starcraft 2’s release, and now we have seen the awesomeness that it can be. Not only that, but with the MLG-GSL player exchange there’s a great chance of some epic rivalries popping up between some of the koreans and our own foriegners, which brings me to my next point.
2. The World will be Ready
The sweet taste of Thorzain’s victory over Fruitdealer gradually turned to ash in my mouth as Korean after Korean went down in the first round. Admittedly, they were all EPIC games (Nestea vs Goody and QXC vs Genius especially IMO), but one way or another it seemed that the Koreans were not prepared. Fortunately by the RO 16 MC was acutely aware of what the foriegners were capable of and pushed on to that glorious series against ThorZain. But MC and Boxer were the last of their kind by the Round of 8, all others having fallen early in the tournament and I'm sure that those who went quickly are hungry for their revenge, so the Koreans will be ready.
Meanwhile, you know what’s going on right now? China is hosting their first big SC2 tournament since Beta... and they’ve beat us. I now find myself cheering for MC against the red menace -jk, I <3 China- that has defeated all of the foreigners in the Gigabyte Starwars tournament. It seems that China too is on the rise, and with them will come new names and awesome stories.
With pros from China and Korea being more prepared, you can expect more fans to join in. Even though 70k fans watching the finals was pretty fricken sweet, can you IMAGINE if there had been a korean in the finals!? And soon the Chinese players will have a following too. Yes, as amazing as TSL 3 was, TSL 4 will be out of this world due to the ever growing fan-base.
3. The game will be more balanced OR it'll be more awesome
Have you watched PvP lately? How many archons were used in PvP a month ago? Not a heck of a lot. The times, they are a changing my friends, and by the time TSL4 rolls around hopefully every matchup is balanced and exciting. If it’s not quite balanced yet, then there’s an equally awesome reason for that: Bolding that because apparently I need to. Just saying that there is no downside tho, either it'll be more balanced, or it'll be new and exciting due to HoTS
4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
There’s a significant chance that TSL 4 will in fact be the first big SC2 HoTS tournament. Think about that for a second. It’s a long-shot, but timing wise it could happen. And it would be glorious! New units, strategies, and who knows what. Now, this is Blizzard we’re talking about, so who know’s when HoTS will come out but I’m just saying, if it’s a year off then the times could work out nicely.
5. It has huge shoes to fill
There’s no denying that TSL 3 was some of, if not unequivocally the BEST sc2 tournament play we’ve seen. But from the sounds of it, TSL is always like that. Perhaps its the open qualification process, perhaps its the prestige of being THE foriegner tournament. Probably some combination of the above, but no one can deny that TSL 3 was fantastic, players played their absolute best, and when times looked bleak called upon the gods themselves to give them the strength to succeed. (cough, seriously, Thorzain seemed like he had a touch of divinity to him in game 6 of the finals). TSL 4 is gonna have big shoes to fill, and I believe that it will indeed exceed even our wildest expectations.
I’m one of the guys who voted “maybe wait a bit” for TSL 4. As much as I want to watch it right this second I realize that given more time it can only be better and better.
Edit: I'm actually going to keep a little section updated here because some fascinating things are happening right now.
Rivalries IdrA vs Protoss (and the world) Obviously IdrA has several rivalries, but none are more prominent at the time of writing as two protoss... And possibly soon to be a third.
We all remember the infamous from Cruncher, as he defeated IdrA in TSL3. Not long after that, this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ4PCX2AYtY Dunno if I can embed that here somehow, but that's HuK Hallucinating Voidrays and causing IdrA to leave the game and the resulting exchange of words.
Currently MLG Columbus, Cruncher lurks in the open bracket about to take on IdrA's teammate EGAxSlav. More importantly however, HuK's Korean Brotoss MC has been 2-0d by IdrA. In an interview afterwards MC said he wasn't playing his best and that he will still go on to win this tournament. Could we see a potential third protoss rival of IdrA forming? Lets hope so! As an IdrA anti fan --though he is playing PHENOMENALLY this MLG tournament-- I yearn to see MC take a game off of him and then in the next game say: "you realize of course, half my army was halluc"
Meanwhile, MC does have a very busy week ahead of him. After MLG collumbus he has to fly to China for the Star Wars tourny. Will Korea's best be able to defeat China's best? Could there be a new regional rivalry there? First of all, will the MLG champion this time be Korean, European, or North American? Only time will tell.
Team Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Theres a little problem though. Blizzard have publically announced that heart of the swarm and all other expansions will ONLY affect the single player, cause otherwise there would be shitloads of new units and things to come. Maps and unit changes will definetly come, but not any other units then the one's created since the starcraft 2 engine we're beginning it's design. It have taken to long to make the multiplayer units fully functional and unbugged, during just the beta section there we're ONLY testings about the units, so that would need a whole new beta stage for the multiplayer section for new units to come + they all need to be balanced and have a nice input/output of damage for the whole already existing multiplayer scene, and ofcourse it would take a new unit for ALL races to be fair for every race, or there would probably be a big race switch for top tier players that would use the new unbalanced unit to their advantage in new strategy's that havent already been nerfed by Blizzard.
So m8, please dont think there will be new multiplayer units, it wont. And check out the new Beta realases of Heart of the swarm, its not so exciting as you think. The units existing in it is about the same but with new features, just like if a good map maker did make a really long MMORPG.
I believe you are mistaken. While Blizzard said they wouldn`t focus on adding new units as it would saturate the current unit pool, they DID say they would change some things to ensure a healthier multiplayer environment. Notably, they looked at the overseer and that's probably gonna get the axe in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer. I wouldn't rule out new units, although your point about balance is logical. We'll just have to see, personally I think they will make some changes and believe that one of those changes will be the occasional new unit probably at the cost of certain units. Yes there will be balance issues because of this, but Blizzard is getting very good at working out balance issues FAST.
On May 26 2011 02:31 TheDougler wrote: So today I decided to fill the gaping hole in my life that TSL3’s absense has givin me, by thinking about TSL4.
I realized as I dragged myself out of bed to do all the “real life” things people claim exist, that as incredably fantastic and mindblowingly awesome as TSL3 was, TSL4 will be even better. Here’s why:
1. The Hype
TSL3 was the most hyped up thing I’ve ever seen in my life and it was AWESOME for it. Seriously, even the men’s gold medal olympic hockey game in Victoria (about 60 minutes from Vancouver) weren’t as hyped as TSL 3 was. As the proud owner of an “Expand Your Horizons” ringtone (the TSL3 intro music), I can tell you that I really REALLY appreciated the hype. And it’s just gonna keep getting better. Next time around we won’t just have “and european you haven’t heard of X who played warcraft is gonna take on former brood-war player Y” We have a STARCRAFT 2 BACKSTORY. How well they did last time, and the player who defeated them is going to be far more relevant than it was for TSL 2 vs TSL 3. Many of us started watching e-sports after starcraft 2’s release, and now we have seen the awesomeness that it can be. Not only that, but with the MLG-GSL player exchange there’s a great chance of some epic rivalries popping up between some of the koreans and our own foriegners, which brings me to my next point.
2. The World will be Ready
The sweet taste of Thorzain’s victory over Fruitdealer gradually turned to ash in my mouth as Korean after Korean went down in the first round. Admittedly, they were all EPIC games (Nestea vs Goody and QXC vs Genius especially IMO), but one way or another it seemed that the Koreans were not prepared. Fortunately by the RO 16 MC was acutely aware of what the foriegners were capable of and pushed on to that glorious series against ThorZain. But MC and Boxer were the last of their kind by the Round of 8, all others having fallen early in the tournament and I'm sure that those who went quickly are hungry for their revenge, so the Koreans will be ready.
Meanwhile, you know what’s going on right now? China is hosting their first big SC2 tournament since Beta... and they’ve beat us. I now find myself cheering for MC against the red menace -jk, I <3 China- that has defeated all of the foreigners in the Gigabyte Starwars tournament. It seems that China too is on the rise, and with them will come new names and awesome stories.
With pros from China and Korea being more prepared, you can expect more fans to join in. Even though 70k fans watching the finals was pretty fricken sweet, can you IMAGINE if there had been a korean in the finals!? And soon the Chinese players will have a following too. Yes, as amazing as TSL 3 was, TSL 4 will be out of this world due to the ever growing fan-base.
3. The game will be more balanced OR it'll be more awesome
Have you watched PvP lately? How many archons were used in PvP a month ago? Not a heck of a lot. The times, they are a changing my friends, and by the time TSL4 rolls around hopefully every matchup is balanced and exciting. If it’s not quite balanced yet, then there’s an equally awesome reason for that: Bolding that because apparently I need to. Just saying that there is no downside tho, either it'll be more balanced, or it'll be new and exciting due to HoTS
4. (Maybe) Heart of The Swarm will be released
There’s a significant chance that TSL 4 will in fact be the first big SC2 HoTS tournament. Think about that for a second. It’s a long-shot, but timing wise it could happen. And it would be glorious! New units, strategies, and who knows what. Now, this is Blizzard we’re talking about, so who know’s when HoTS will come out but I’m just saying, if it’s a year off then the times could work out nicely.
5. It has huge shoes to fill
There’s no denying that TSL 3 was some of, if not unequivocally the BEST sc2 tournament play we’ve seen. But from the sounds of it, TSL is always like that. Perhaps its the open qualification process, perhaps its the prestige of being THE foriegner tournament. Probably some combination of the above, but no one can deny that TSL 3 was fantastic, players played their absolute best, and when times looked bleak called upon the gods themselves to give them the strength to succeed. (cough, seriously, Thorzain seemed like he had a touch of divinity to him in game 6 of the finals). TSL 4 is gonna have big shoes to fill, and I believe that it will indeed exceed even our wildest expectations.
I’m one of the guys who voted “maybe wait a bit” for TSL 4. As much as I want to watch it right this second I realize that given more time it can only be better and better.
Edit: I'm actually going to keep a little section updated here because some fascinating things are happening right now.
Rivalries IdrA vs Protoss (and the world) Obviously IdrA has several rivalries, but none are more prominent at the time of writing as two protoss... And possibly soon to be a third.
We all remember the infamous from Cruncher, as he defeated IdrA in TSL3. Not long after that, this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ4PCX2AYtY Dunno if I can embed that here somehow, but that's HuK Hallucinating Voidrays and causing IdrA to leave the game and the resulting exchange of words.
Currently MLG Columbus, Cruncher lurks in the open bracket about to take on IdrA's teammate EGAxSlav. More importantly however, HuK's Korean Brotoss MC has been 2-0d by IdrA. In an interview afterwards MC said he wasn't playing his best and that he will still go on to win this tournament. Could we see a potential third protoss rival of IdrA forming? Lets hope so! As an IdrA anti fan --though he is playing PHENOMENALLY this MLG tournament-- I yearn to see MC take a game off of him and then in the next game say: "you realize of course, half my army was halluc"
Meanwhile, MC does have a very busy week ahead of him. After MLG collumbus he has to fly to China for the Star Wars tourny. Will Korea's best be able to defeat China's best? Could there be a new regional rivalry there? First of all, will the MLG champion this time be Korean, European, or North American? Only time will tell.
Team Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Theres a little problem though. Blizzard have publically announced that heart of the swarm and all other expansions will ONLY affect the single player, cause otherwise there would be shitloads of new units and things to come. Maps and unit changes will definetly come, but not any other units then the one's created since the starcraft 2 engine we're beginning it's design. It have taken to long to make the multiplayer units fully functional and unbugged, during just the beta section there we're ONLY testings about the units, so that would need a whole new beta stage for the multiplayer section for new units to come + they all need to be balanced and have a nice input/output of damage for the whole already existing multiplayer scene, and ofcourse it would take a new unit for ALL races to be fair for every race, or there would probably be a big race switch for top tier players that would use the new unbalanced unit to their advantage in new strategy's that havent already been nerfed by Blizzard.
So m8, please dont think there will be new multiplayer units, it wont. And check out the new Beta realases of Heart of the swarm, its not so exciting as you think. The units existing in it is about the same but with new features, just like if a good map maker did make a really long MMORPG.
You're pretty damn wrong. I should look it up but various high placed members of the SC2 team, have already confirmed that there will be a new ladder for people with HoTS while WoL players remain in their own ladder. This very clearly implies that the multiplayer aspect will change.
I hope it'll be a lan event. I don't enjoy games when I know that one of the players is staying up late or woke up just to play a game with high latency. I loved the finals though.
Agreed. TSL4 is probably the number one thing Im looking forward to over the horizon and you listed in detail exactly why. When I watched TSL3 I didn't know who some of the players were, heard of them yes but that was about it. Thorwho? Now Im looking to see people like Puma-who? as well as other well known badasses kicking down doors and rolling through elimination rounds. I can not wait, but I have to =s
One thing I really do want for the TSL is for them to adopt the OSL group-style play. Single elim always has an awkward taste in my mouth for creating player matchups before the finals that could have BEEN the finals. TSL3 didn't suffer from this, but GSL almost always does! D: In the OSL we have (not for the first time) a flash-jaedong matchup in a group where they both end up advancing and I LOVE that.
On July 19 2011 12:20 Sina92 wrote: I hope it'll be a lan event. I don't enjoy games when I know that one of the players is staying up late or woke up just to play a game with high latency. I loved the finals though.
Best wishes.
Considerable effort goes into making sure that TSL players are accommodated to play at times that are agreeable to all parties involved. Situations can't always be perfect with players split on different continents, but the conditions players played in during TSL3 were not as bad as you make it out to be. The issues with latency were complicated even more by the earthquake at the time and while some still remains I don't see reason to discredit all online play.
edit: Keep in mind games were cast off of replays allowing for flexibility in players scheduling games at reasonable times that doesn't interfere with changing the broadcast date/time. This allowed us to not have one strict time based around one region when scheduling the matches. With mods/admins based around the globe available for reffing said matches that made accommodating players easier as well.
On July 19 2011 12:20 Sina92 wrote: I hope it'll be a lan event. I don't enjoy games when I know that one of the players is staying up late or woke up just to play a game with high latency. I loved the finals though.
Best wishes.
Considerable effort goes into making sure that TSL players are accommodated to play at times that are agreeable to all parties involved. Situations can't always be perfect with players split on different continents, but the conditions players played in during TSL3 were not as bad as you make it out to be. The issues with latency were complicated even more by the earthquake at the time and while some still remains I don't see reason to discredit all online play.
edit: Keep in mind games were cast off of replays allowing for flexibility in players scheduling games at reasonable times that doesn't interfere with changing the broadcast date/time. This allowed us to not have one strict time based around one region when scheduling the matches. With mods/admins based around the globe available for reffing said matches that made accommodating players easier as well.
Honestly TSL3 results were so different from other Lans (as in foreigners dominated) that I can't take it without a grain of salt. TSL4's goal should be to have a Lan event even though it may not be possible but we can all dream right?
MC was heavily slumping at the time vs Terran, and Goody and Adelscott use very weird builds that don't come up much in Korean leagues. Besides, MC was in Europe for his set against Thorzain so there couldn't have been much lag in the first place. Upsets happen, TSL3 was just an anomaly of sorts in that way.
What I'd like to see is going back down to 16 players, and having a group stage into double elimination bracket. I feel like fewer players but more games makes for better viewing, half the players in TSL3 played 2-3 games and weren't seen again.
Finally I think everyone besides the seeds should have to qualify. While having Boxer in a TL tournament was cool, and having him reach the Ro8 was even cooler, I think it would be better for such an infrequent tournament (compared to GSL/NASL/MLG) to have a more open system, and besides, lots of Koreans play in TL opens now anyway.
On July 19 2011 12:20 Sina92 wrote: I hope it'll be a lan event. I don't enjoy games when I know that one of the players is staying up late or woke up just to play a game with high latency. I loved the finals though.
Best wishes.
Considerable effort goes into making sure that TSL players are accommodated to play at times that are agreeable to all parties involved. Situations can't always be perfect with players split on different continents, but the conditions players played in during TSL3 were not as bad as you make it out to be. The issues with latency were complicated even more by the earthquake at the time and while some still remains I don't see reason to discredit all online play.
edit: Keep in mind games were cast off of replays allowing for flexibility in players scheduling games at reasonable times that doesn't interfere with changing the broadcast date/time. This allowed us to not have one strict time based around one region when scheduling the matches. With mods/admins based around the globe available for reffing said matches that made accommodating players easier as well.
Honestly TSL3 results were so different from other Lans (as in foreigners dominated) that I can't take it without a grain of salt. TSL4's goal should be to have a Lan event even though it may not be possible but we can all dream right?
But if it's a LAN event, you won't have the unbelievable awesomeness that is preparing builds for days or even weeks to combat your opponent - I think that's another reason that TSL3's results looked so different - to the Korean players in the tournament, the foreigners were relatively unknown and it would have been very difficult to do specific research against Thorzain's play in Feb.
On July 19 2011 12:20 Sina92 wrote: I hope it'll be a lan event. I don't enjoy games when I know that one of the players is staying up late or woke up just to play a game with high latency. I loved the finals though.
Best wishes.
Considerable effort goes into making sure that TSL players are accommodated to play at times that are agreeable to all parties involved. Situations can't always be perfect with players split on different continents, but the conditions players played in during TSL3 were not as bad as you make it out to be. The issues with latency were complicated even more by the earthquake at the time and while some still remains I don't see reason to discredit all online play.
edit: Keep in mind games were cast off of replays allowing for flexibility in players scheduling games at reasonable times that doesn't interfere with changing the broadcast date/time. This allowed us to not have one strict time based around one region when scheduling the matches. With mods/admins based around the globe available for reffing said matches that made accommodating players easier as well.
If you don't have a lan-based finals, I won't care about the results. That doesn't mean I won't watch out of curiosity, but seriously throw away a larger portion of the prize pool and put it towards flight/accomodations/hotel etc. In this fashion, the prize pool naturally becomes less top-heavy, and more professional gamers get more experience. Plus the fans get what they want. Everything works out, just less of a prize pool for the first, second and third place winners. But they didn't know they were going to win to begin with, so they can't be disappointed when they win.
I would just hope that the TSL4 games will be live, rather than replays being casted... Live games on a live stream just make it so much more exciting!
On August 27 2011 06:15 JohnnyJay wrote: I would just hope that the TSL4 games will be live, rather than replays being casted... Live games on a live stream just make it so much more exciting!
Oh gawd.. Just rewatched the Nony TSL3 trailer on youtube. GODDAMN! When that popped up all over the screen when I visited TL I almost shat my pants. It was the awesome of awesome. It was probably the most epic moment the past 5 years atleast. Please make it the same style again.. And with Nony :p The epicness of epic.