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This game might be balanced at the highest level. I'm not disputing that; I have no dog in this fight. I'm not as good as the pros or even top GM. But what happens to a game when you only have the top 30 people in the world playing it "perfectly"? Unlike regular sports like basketball, baseball, football, soccer (etc) people want to see something they can attain. When you're in a game which you are "winning" it feels good. Until someone snatches that victory away from you over...and over...and over again.
I've probably played about 30k games of StarCraft since its inception (yes I do have a life). If you actually do the math it is about 8-10 games a day since release...for you super nerds. The problem I see at the mid-high level is it is too much of a "coin flip" for all races. For instance, I proxy a Zerg with 1 Rax and they over react while I make 2 factories for an all-in. Or a Terran didn't scout one tiny portion of the map to see the Dark Shine. Or let's say it gets to the end game and we both are mediocre control and decide to fight. Should one army be completely destroyed in seconds by spellcasters?
Here are some good examples of what I'm talking about. All these games were today. I'm currently a 5.1k mech only Terran, I've been GM with cheese, but I like to experiment (that is my profile).
TvP (Win): He/she scouts 2 gas, make a reasonable amount of defense then they auto lose because they don't scout the double factory:
https://drop.sc/replay/7501151
TvZ (Loss): I'm playing unranked with this one. Yes, I BM and call the person "kid", please ignore my frustration. But please move to the end game of 16-20 minutes and see the late game disintegration of Terran units with spellcasters. For any mid-tier person they will lose their entire force. Mass Ravens is not good for the game so are things like Swarm Hosts or Mass Vipers good for it?
https://drop.sc/replay/7501345
TvP (Win): The Protoss is down to 4 probes after the first attack which ENDS at 7:33.. There was no economic damage done to myself, yet the comeback potential is pretty absurd for the Protoss.
https://drop.sc/replay/7501348
Again, my quarrel is notwith Terran or ANY race but with the strength of certain units and/or the inability to scout them earlier. We all saw the issue with Ravens...I think any unit with energy and the ability to cause damage should be re-examined. I also think we need to re-consider "resource dumps". For instance the above mentioned PvT game lasts so long is because that person automatically made units with 400hp (archons) with the gas built up. Hypothetically...what unit would Terran make if they were in the same situation?
EDIT:
Here is one more where Zerg Overreacts and (he/she scouted) but still lost:
https://drop.sc/replay/7501374
Please remember the title of this thread before comment! This is mid-high level to low GM. We are not perfect, but we love the game. This post is to facilitate new players to the scene by not being discouraged. Many of the replays I posted would discourage many players from experimenting with this game.
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Idk, these problems will always be present. No way to balance across all skill ranges. I am very happy about the balance considering 3 vastly different races. (except give terran some lategame power)
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Another example of someone 400 mmr less than me but guess what? They can build plyons! Zero micro and good for the game?
https://drop.sc/replay/7520002
User was warned for this post.
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i dont know whats the point!? you said yourself, that the game is balanced at the top level. and i guess its save to say, that playing protoss is a little easier, cause its a easier to utilize the advantages of this race. but thats what it is since WoL. and a long as i can do something better to beat my opponent, im fine with that. So what is your point? dont expect them to change the entire game design.
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If anything, protoss is the hardest to play at the level you are speaking about. Racial distribution in diamond and master has about 35% zerg to 20-25% protoss since the inception of LotV. But to your main point, about coinflippy matchups at this level - that's just a nature of a game that has fog of war mechanics and bo1 ladder vs random opponents. Strange, onetrick builds and cheeses will always take you a bit further than just playing defensive macro games.
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It all started with "i blame randomness and coin-flip" and turned into "look he can build pylons and zero micro" stuff soon after. Classic! You should be more creative (and patient) next time you try to justify your lack of skill.
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There is always something you could have done better. What you are really saying is I make mistakes the game should be more forgiving to making mistakes. No, learn to play better.
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It feels that at low diamond (3.8k) no one knows how to play the game, I play Protoss and build units off two base, immortals archons and zealots, optionally with storm, F2 a move, and kill most of my opponents. I don’t even have a build order I just build things when I have money!
My opponents call my play bullshit but idk.
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On May 29 2018 19:07 FrashQ wrote: If anything, protoss is the hardest to play at the level you are speaking about.
haha. guess we have a protoss player here.
but now i got the topic. indeed it might to be more of a scouting issue.
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You said it yourself "the game is balanced at highest level" basically for the 300 people at Top 100 GMs across 3 regions. For the rest of us, the game will never be "balanced". Frankly, the top 10 of those 300 balance-whine all the time so balance is only relatively speaking even at the highest level.
I'm Dia 1 Zerg with 4.4K at max and staying around 4.2K. I'm tilted all the time playing vs T especially mech (I always call it cancer AKA the legitimized imbalance BS from BZ) but I learn to make my peace with it because it is not like BZ is gonna do anything about it. I know it is not an ideal thing to do but sometimes I refuse to play certain matchup (mostly ZvT) because I want to reserve my sanity for SC2. No point to get yourself angry and lose your cool. Enjoy the game for what it is including its "imperfection". Also, don't cheese!
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If you lose to unexpected stuff you need to git gud. If that discourages you the game isn't for you.
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Below pro level your relative matchup skills is that matters the most since this skews your perception of balance and fairness. For instance, say that your TvZ is better than your TvP. Then you would perceive TvZ to be balanced and TvP to imbalanced.
That said, some things are easier to execute than to defend below pro levels. For instance, it is easier to mass Carriers than defeat Carriers in TvP even though Carriers may be balanced on pro level.
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if you care too much about wins, just play other race cuz the only reason to play terran is challenge, I guess thats why neeb and classic switched.
User was warned for this post.
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I've probably played about 30k games of StarCraft since its inception (yes I do have a life). If you actually do the math it is about 8-10 games a day since release
i think you missed a 0 on both parts
wait
. . it is I who have no life.
gg well played
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On May 29 2018 20:05 StabiloBoss20 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2018 19:07 FrashQ wrote: If anything, protoss is the hardest to play at the level you are speaking about. haha. guess we have a protoss player here. but now i got the topic. indeed it might to be more of a scouting issue.
http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=-2
According to current stats, distribution in GM league is 29.91% protoss (lower than terran or zerg), Masters league is 25.36% protoss (again lower than terran or zerg), and in Diamond league is 23.73% (once again lower than terran or zerg). The protoss population, as a percentage is only higher than either terran or zerg in bronze, silver and gold.
It doesn't necessarily prove the point that protoss is the hardest to play at higher levels, as maybe there are just more skilled terran or zerg players. Or maybe the amount of terran and zergs outnumber the amount of protoss.
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On May 27 2018 17:45 SirPinky wrote: Should one army be completely destroyed in seconds by spellcasters?
Should tanks, thors and vikings counter everything Zerg can build?
Should Terran be able to play by keeping their army safely at home and throwing helions at mineral lines until they max out?
Should zerg be forced into rushing vipers for having no other counter to siege tanks?
Should unit compositions that have no micro potential be allowed to win games?
The frustation in this game is just about points of views, and i don't mean to offend, but why should yours be taken into consideration over the other players' ?
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On May 29 2018 20:05 StabiloBoss20 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2018 19:07 FrashQ wrote: If anything, protoss is the hardest to play at the level you are speaking about. haha. guess we have a protoss player here. but now i got the topic. indeed it might to be more of a scouting issue.
haha. guess we found the zerg player who won't accept facts. akin to trump supporter.
User was warned for this post
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Isn't any kind of imbalance handled by MMR at lower-than-top level? I know that we have 2 different non-mirrors, so in theory you could win a lot of one matchup and lose a lot of the other, but it's very unlikely to be a general trend (that is to say, there can't be a "race triangle" equilibrium where Z > T > P > Z, consistently across the whole ladder, right?)
So I'd say you just need to accept your MMR without worring about the difference in effort spent by someone of an equivalent rating but with a difference race.
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[QUOTE]On May 30 2018 01:12 youngjiddle wrote: [QUOTE]On May 29 2018 20:05 StabiloBoss20 wrote: [QUOTE]On May 29 2018 19:07 FrashQ wrote: If anything, protoss is the hardest to play at the level you are speaking about. [/QUOTE]
haha. guess we have a protoss player here.
but now i got the topic. indeed it might to be more of a scouting issue.[/QUOTE]
haha. guess we found the zerg player who won't accept facts. akin to trump supporter.
[b]User was warned for this post
calm down, bro. you might wanna think about your fact. race distribution dosnt tell a whole lot about about the difficulty of a race. my post was just a hind, that you prob wont find a terran/zerg/random, who share the opinion that protoss is the hardest race to play as long as you can choose your race, this all dosnt matter.
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How is this thinly veiled balance whining allowed to stay up haha
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