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Hi guys!
Bear with me a little. Little disclaimer: I am not an awesome SC2 player I am average at best. But solid plat 1 league where I suck for years now. I think thats my limit and thats OK. I do more or less 150 apm average with some spamming 180-190. SPM is about 10'ish avereage. I play Toss only. I usually play 2v2 teamplay not because 1v1 is hard for me, but because in general I enjoy teamplay more in games.
The problem is every single time I got opponents more or less on my skill level, but my teammate 19 out of 20 games are so so much in lower skill than me its ridiculus. After a few games I am so furious about this that I act like an asshole. :D
When I win I do beacause I played my best and didn't do any major mistakes. But there are times when I got from plat 1 first to plat 1 30-40 by losing in a row like 20 games and lower my mmr to gold league. I need to play teamplay as its 2vs1 with a major disadvantage of not getting my teammates resources.
I am asking how is this even possible? Is sc2 ladder teamplay all about luck and I am just not getting any of it?
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This is sad.
First of all APM DOES NOT MATTER dont use it a reference. How can you determine some1 is "much lower" ? You play a low league its hard for you to call people much lower than you. If they got a different mindset or playstyle this does not mean they are bad, show a replay atleast now we gotta take your word, maybe you are the problem. Your mentallity does not seem to be in a good place in my opinion.
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Youre most likely playing at the wrong times. I think youre honest and it is very possible to tank 20 games back to back.
Basically in every team game ive played including sc2 there are certain times during the day you need to stop playing. I mapped out when to start and stop playing in sc2.
For me in sc2 on the america server play times are between 6pm-10pm. If its any earlier or later I get matched with noobs and i just lose games because of teammates major mistakes. The difference in skill from 9:59pm and 10:00pm is so noticeable and consistent I can call when im gonna start losing simply by what time it is. And surprise surprise the minute after 10pm I play a game, lose and then lose more games and then more games because of teammates fault.
I think its the demographic of very casual people who find a neat and interesting game to play after a days work and spending time with family.
For example I remember when i was a kid and i played broodwar singleplayer late at night Id build like 40 turrets around my base and just que 5 marines on one barracks til i was maxed then i moved out lol. And when i read the description on stim and used it i thought it was so bad cause all it did was hurt my units. At this time ofc i had no idea I was so bad and at the same time didnt really care cause the game wasnt much important to me at all at that point in life.
I think you get those kind of people (not just kids) in team games and in all games. You know build 30 cannons, turtle build only voidrays til youre maxed.
Since youre okay with your skill level and you say you enjoy team games more.. My suggestion is find someone who you like playing with and plays as much as you and only play with them. Its much more enjoyable playing with friends in teamgames than with randoms even if youve never met them irl cause you make fun of each other and have some serious fun.
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On January 23 2019 01:45 Zaxon wrote: This is sad.
First of all APM DOES NOT MATTER dont use it a reference. How can you determine some1 is "much lower" ? You play a low league its hard for you to call people much lower than you. If they got a different mindset or playstyle this does not mean they are bad, show a replay atleast now we gotta take your word, maybe you are the problem. Your mentallity does not seem to be in a good place in my opinion.
No offense man but please stop this "you can't be right, it's probably your fault" attitude. I am not here to say I am an awesome player and all I got is bad teammates so be simpathetic about me!
The reason I started this thread because I think I am not alone in this one. And hey I am a human after all! Some connection with others like me could help getting through this.
As for APM yeah not really matters, but if your teammate have 30-40ish actions per minute, and your enemies have 100ish, well my buddy you are going to lose. And I was not saying I am good player because I have x amount of APM it's just a frame to tell that I am acutally trying to be better.
And please don't stomp on others feelings. Plat1 is not low league! At least it is not for me. I was always bad at strategy games, so I am pretty proud that I got this far. http://puu.sh/CAJyx/02441c3fe8.png
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On January 23 2019 04:35 Gotoh wrote: Youre most likely playing at the wrong times. I think youre honest and it is very possible to tank 20 games back to back.
Basically in every team game ive played including sc2 there are certain times during the day you need to stop playing. I mapped out when to start and stop playing in sc2.
For me in sc2 on the america server play times are between 6pm-10pm. If its any earlier or later I get matched with noobs and i just lose games because of teammates major mistakes. The difference in skill from 9:59pm and 10:00pm is so noticeable and consistent I can call when im gonna start losing simply by what time it is. And surprise surprise the minute after 10pm I play a game, lose and then lose more games and then more games because of teammates fault.
I think its the demographic of very casual people who find a neat and interesting game to play after a days work and spending time with family.
For example I remember when i was a kid and i played broodwar singleplayer late at night Id build like 40 turrets around my base and just que 5 marines on one barracks til i was maxed then i moved out lol. And when i read the description on stim and used it i thought it was so bad cause all it did was hurt my units. At this time ofc i had no idea I was so bad and at the same time didnt really care cause the game wasnt much important to me at all at that point in life.
I think you get those kind of people (not just kids) in team games and in all games. You know build 30 cannons, turtle build only voidrays til youre maxed.
Since youre okay with your skill level and you say you enjoy team games more.. My suggestion is find someone who you like playing with and plays as much as you and only play with them. Its much more enjoyable playing with friends in teamgames than with randoms even if youve never met them irl cause you make fun of each other and have some serious fun.
Well you are up to something. I also happen to notice this. I am on the EU server and there are times when I got time to play (I am not a kid anymore, I work so don't have much time for playing ) that all this I have mentioned earlier happens. I believe I heard it from Lowko in a video where he says "If you lost 3 games in a row, just stop playing". Well I never stop playing because I have so few times that I can play. Maybe thats the problem. But it is still interesting and very infuriating also. I also think maybe my MMR or my skill is too high and the Ladder algorithm decides I need to have a teammate with lower level of skills to match my enemies. But the problem is while I have the skills I am also not a good enough player to match that skills. If that makes any sense..
Also thanks your advice and you are right. I have a couple of friends to play with but if they not online when I got the time to play then I am back to that point again.
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The skill difference in team games (with random teams) is quite detrimental to getting a good game. Whenever I play teams, I only play with friends for this very reason. Even if your friends are bad - at least they'll communicate or at least you know what you're getting.
Battle.net Leagues The above article notes that "In 2v2 random match-ups, an average rating of the two players will be compared to their opponents rating"
So you could be (top) plat, matched with a (low) silver player vs 2 mid golds. Any sort of coordinated defense is going to be hard with a partner like that.
My friend and I play 2v2 masters league (both of us are diamond 1v1), and there are games where we hit someone who is clearly much better than us (top masters in 1v1), but unfortunately are playing with a random teammate who is also much worse than us. Even a bit of early game harass (and observing their micro) you can already tell which opponent is the superior one. So we just focus on killing the better player first and the games are usually over pretty fast.
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You're not going to get matched with 3 people with the exact same skill level. Sometimes you'll be matched above your skill level, sometimes you'll be matched below. I think when you play with someone far worse than everyone else, that frustrating experience sticks in your head more than the 10 other times when the games were more or less fair. It's all in your head.
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The match making system cannot perfectly match you. That said, on a long enough time table it does a pretty solid job of getting you to 50% win rate. That is as close as it can get to "perfect matching". 1v1 mach making is complex enough as is. Involve 3 races and then 2 more players and it becomes all the more complex. You might want to try looking here, on the in-game chat channels, or on Reddit for a few partners. That way you guys will at least know where you stand right at the start of the game and can pair for the better.
I hope that helps. Just someone who rarely has the time anymore, but has played all around in team games from Silver to Diamond (yes, I know that means I am not that great ).
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Have you ever played 1v1? Because whenever I watch 2v2 players (or in team games in general) complaining, they almost always aren't really that much better than their teammate.
Maybe Platin is just your league?
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
On January 23 2019 01:45 Zaxon wrote: This is sad.
First of all APM DOES NOT MATTER dont use it a reference. How can you determine some1 is "much lower" ? You play a low league its hard for you to call people much lower than you. If they got a different mindset or playstyle this does not mean they are bad, show a replay atleast now we gotta take your word, maybe you are the problem. Your mentallity does not seem to be in a good place in my opinion. This is nonsense.
First of all Platinum means he's in the top half and can safely say that, e.g., a silver player is way worse than he is. I don't play randoms, mirrors and barcodes. Which generally sends me a league or more under my proper state(more or less a third of my games is me leaving, add to that some smurfs or people who are on a losing streak). I can safely say that people are worse than me. They have lower APM, they have lower supply, they have more supply blocks, they have bad army composition and they have worse ... DO I really have to continue? Every player can safely say when the enemy is worse or better when the difference gets big enough. I had games where I just build banelings and send them right clicking the enemy base and I won. Nestea style!
Your mentality is the one which is not in the good place.
@OP Get a teammate(s), random teammates are random. Or accept that your team rating will be dragging you down as most of the players are worse than you which comes from the fact that you're Platinum.
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This is often my mindset playing starcraft:
Play team games for casual fun -> eventually lose due to bad cooperation in the team -> get annoyed relying on others -> play 1vs1.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36621 Posts
Please provide replays or I will have to close your thread.
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here's a thought: if you want your skill to have a bigger effect on the outcome of the game then play 1v1?
literally the only reason to play teams is to add a social/teamwork aspect to the game. so if you insist on teams you should be prepared for the possibility that your teammate won't be as good as you are (technically in a balanced matchmaking system this should happen half the time). this leaves you two reasonable options: 1) be more vocal with your teammates and offer advice if you feel you're better or 2) just take the losses as they come and focus on your own performance
ultimately what else can you do? did you think someone was going to say "oh hey, you have the shitty teammate option on! just turn it off"?
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There is no answer to your question.
The match making algorithm is bad in 2v2. It only gets worse the more you rank up.
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Huh Guys, I have lot to catch up and I will try to make it organized.
So I have no problem with randomness and I don't have a problem with Win-lost ratio. I don't demand that it should be 50-50% I mean is at that level I play at that MMR I am, matchmaking is a real MESS. I just would like to play fair games.
At Masters-High Diamond you more or less only find gamers with a basic knowledge of the game and with some OK skill. But below diamond... you can seriously worker rush yourself into that territory. I see a lot of gamers who know basiclly 1-2 build order and only do that, if it does not work out for them, they leave.
When I played with a friend we easily got to High Diamond league! What I was saying in the OP comment that out of 20 games 19 is unfair for me because of the skill difference in teams. Yeah maybe I am slightly (more ofthen not slightly) better then the opponent players, I have no chance of winning against them if my teammate is that bad. Then sometimes when I play so good (for my skill level anyways) that I can overcome the bad teammate, but that still isn't fair and not fun at all, that was my whole point.
Get a teammate(s), random teammates are random. Or accept that your team rating will be dragging you down as most of the players are worse than you which comes from the fact that you're Platinum. Yeah, you right I agree. But when you play alone, and getting 10-20 lost game in a row and none of that is your fault... It gets into your head. Thats what this thread is about I think.
Please provide replays or I will have to close your thread. Wow! Bravo! Excellent moderation. And why do I need to post replays?
ultimately what else can you do? did you think someone was going to say "oh hey, you have the shitty teammate option on! just turn it off"? It is all about psychology man. Some of us takes this harder. For me unfairness is absolutely unacceptable. But yes you are right. Just focus on your performance could be a good approach.
The match making algorithm is bad in 2v2. It only gets worse the more you rank up. So it gets worse at higher skill level? I didn't noticed that but again I was with a friend at that time.
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i've played maybe ballparking 4k team games in master league, but none so much since LotV. so i am believable i checked my profile. + Show Spoiler + i know that it doesn't help you now, but i want to recall that most teammates and opponents were an OK level at masters. i actually think it gets better as you rank up. sometimes there would be disagreements, and most of the time those disagreements boiled down to cheese being priority, or how to handle it. there's a lot of shit-talking. you know why? because there's a lower amount of accountability, and a lower amount of both skill and sympathy. matching with random people means that you are mostly not progressing in play in any shape or form. as you rank up, you will play with and against the same people more and more because there's less of a pool of players to choose from. not only do you have to deal with attitudes, there's also more pressure on you to perform.
aside from hidden mmr and initial placements, i haven't experienced teammates below platinum, so i can't comment on that specifically, but i maintain that the quality of the games rise as you go up.
even if it's not true sometimes, i believe you need to understand that your teammate may be bad, but there is probably also a bad teammate on the other side as well. you may not notice it and it seems like they're playing perfectly fine, but there are glaring holes that you're not seeing all the time.
so the only way to improve the ranking regularly is to play comfort and to play strongly. see what your teammates on average tend to do when they're given freedom (read: you don't tell them to 12 pool at the start of the game, or proxy reaper) and figure out a strong attack you can do together.
you are complaining about your teammates in the game, but if we received each other as teammates i wouldn't be complaining about you even if you made a silly mistake you couldn't see you were making. because i know generally what to expect. hone your expectations and objectively play better to do better than average.
i had more than 300apm, same with my friend. i would lose to 50-100APM players in team-games sometimes. we just played bad.
one of your resorts is to look for people to play with. i'd start with chat in battlenet. here, discord. and one of the ways i found people to consistently play with is to add teammates that i liked playing with and asking for more games. if they enjoyed team matches as i did, chances are whenever they log in they will begin asking for games as well. multiply this for however many people you end up adding this way. i hope that doesn't sound obvious or redundant because it really isn't. i know plenty of people who never go out of there way to even type GG when a game is ending.
as a side note, a lot of the best 2v2 partners i had were people i practiced against in 1v1. they were either GM or masters for that league as well. quality begets quality on average, if you want to bring positive social experiences into the teamplay portion of the game, i can say without a doubt, that helps more than having solid and consistent mechanics. you can learn to be a good player, you can't learn to be a good teammate when you're constantly defaulting to being frustrated with people. winning through adversity (creativity, teamplay) is much more difficult than to win through formula (coordinated cheese, easier build), and as you play against better people it will much more often that you play against people who put you in poor positions and making your formula turn into a bit of a cointoss/a case of queuing many matches in quick succession.
your teammates, they are human, just like you. that's all i really have to say.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36621 Posts
Thread closed due to OP failing to provide replays.
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