Dethroning Serral - Page 4
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On January 12 2019 00:28 Xain0n wrote: I rewrote that phrase, even if it was quite obvious I wouldn't have said "a very good start into..." if I(falsely) meant he was dominating from the beginning of the year. Sure, that's more liek it. Although his series are mostly dependent on the WCS, sadly (where he doesn't belong ) Edit> Actually I believe that unless Serral meets some Korean in a good form in Poland he will lose to some European player. Unless they collapse a game before victory | ||
JoeCool
Germany2517 Posts
On January 11 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote: No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent. I would be very surprised to see him "descend into mediocrity" but he's surely human and he can lose; I'm a little worried, Zerg are still struggling this patch and the competition is fierce. Im sure he'll not descend into mediocrity this year but you get what I was trying to say. Starcraft 2 changes and so do all the players. I'd be happy if he could maintain his level of play but I'd also not be surprised if (for example) Innovation has a huge comeback. | ||
Fango
United Kingdom8805 Posts
On January 11 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote: No one has had one year such as a Serral's 2018:a very good start culminating into a prolonged worldwide dominance like there never had been before; him just not dropping a single offline series in more than eight months is unprecedent. Well no one else has really had the same opportunity to do that as Serral. He only took part in like four tournaments with koreans and won two of them (I guess three inc HSC). Other players with dominant streaks like INno, Rogue, Maru etc might won more high level series/tournaments but have losses in other events. Rogue in 2017 for example won four weekenders in a row (three in that same year). But had losses in online matches and Code S in between. Yet Serral's run is the greater achievement because he didn't enter those kind of events. Maru would have had to win like three times the number of premiers in 2018 to have matched the same winrate or eight month winning streak as Serral. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On January 12 2019 01:14 Fango wrote: Well no one else has really had the same opportunity to do that as Serral. He only took part in like four tournaments with koreans and won two of them (I guess three inc HSC). Other players with dominant streaks like INno, Rogue, Maru etc might won more high level series/tournaments but have losses in other events. Rogue in 2017 for example won four weekenders in a row (three in that same year). But had losses in online matches and Code S in between. Yet Serral's run is the greater achievement because he didn't enter those kind of events. Maru would have had to win like three times the number of premiers in 2018 to have matched the same winrate or eight month winning streak as Serral. And he managed to avoid the top Terrans! He didn't meet them at Blizzcon and he didn't meet them at GSL v World (I don't count Innovation in 2018 as top Terran) Edit> It's not like he's responsible, but it managed to do the job considering his road was stopped in Poland by Maru. Edit 2> It's still quite impressive considering he won Blizzcon | ||
kamel8000
2 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On January 12 2019 01:14 Fango wrote: Well no one else has really had the same opportunity to do that as Serral. He only took part in like four tournaments with koreans and won two of them (I guess three inc HSC). Other players with dominant streaks like INno, Rogue, Maru etc might won more high level series/tournaments but have losses in other events. Rogue in 2017 for example won four weekenders in a row (three in that same year). But had losses in online matches and Code S in between. Yet Serral's run is the greater achievement because he didn't enter those kind of events. Maru would have had to win like three times the number of premiers in 2018 to have matched the same winrate or eight month winning streak as Serral. IEM and WESG were both played before the start of the streak and we are not counting online events(Serral lost 3-0 to Neeb just before BlizzCon in a minor tournament). Serral's streak is still one of the highest ever(or even the best) if we include the games he played only against koreans; moreover, the majority of those were played against top ones(he didn't get to play Maru or Ty but it's not like he chose not to), unlike the ones usually koreans have against other koreans that usually include victories against mid-tier koreans like Creator or so on. Rogue's streak started later in the year as he accomplished nothing before late July and it is technically broken by his Code S loss in August; he didn't really get to play many more series than Serral. This, if we want to completely disregard WCS... I agree that in a truly global Circuit Serral probably wouldn't have gone undefeated but most likely Maru wouldn't have taken home three Code S titles as well. In addiction to this, Maru failed hard at BlizzCon and Serral's form was godlike; I am personally convinced Serral would have won BlizzCon regardless of his opponent. | ||
Novalith
1 Post
Well, maybe not dethrone but knock Serral down. Serral didn't look like he was at his best but he certainly wasn't playing bad Soo also made a few mistakes but as it turns out, not even Serral can stop Soo from coming second place IEM Katowice Season XIII Quarter Finals Serral vs Soo 2:3 | ||
fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill. For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose. And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On March 03 2019 07:35 pvsnp wrote: For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose. And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship. You're so evil, I like it | ||
Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 03 2019 07:35 pvsnp wrote: For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose. And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship. I believe we have different definitions of the best in the world, in my opinion you are not the best in the world just because you win one tournament. In my opinion it is pretty obvious that just because you win does mean you are the best player. One player can be undefeatable in two matchups and get knocked out in the third while the winner sucks in two matchups but is great in one and rides that all the way to the championship. There are tons of factors that effect if you win or not outside of if you are the best player or not. Just as the lesser player is more likely to be able to steal a victory in a BO3 than a BO7 winning one tournament among middling results proves nothing. Winning multiple tournaments and high multiple high finishes however that paints a clearer picture of who the best players actually is, even though form of course is also a factor but its not like Serrals form is bad atm. Edit: Notice how many casters refer to Serral as the best in the world, its not because he won one tournament its because he has proved that through multiple tournaments. When previous Rogue won blizzcon they didn't call him the best player in the world the next year, they called him the ruling world champion, which is just a title and clearly different from actually being the best in the world. | ||
Rodya
546 Posts
Serral has never been the undisputed #1 player in the world, contrary to what you think. At his peak he was ~rank 2 with Maru above him. This loss at IEM is huge for his legacy because he barely plays any matches against Koreans. He has to beat Maru and Dark at WESG to make up for it if he wants to be considered top 2 anymore. After that he won't play an important tournament with Koreans in it until Blizzcon and then IEM the next year. He really rarely plays - that's why this loss is a big deal for him. | ||
DBooN
Germany2701 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On March 03 2019 07:57 Shuffleblade wrote: I believe we have different definitions of the best in the world, in my opinion you are not the best in the world just because you win one tournament. In my opinion it is pretty obvious that just because you win does mean you are the best player. One player can be undefeatable in two matchups and get knocked out in the third while the winner sucks in two matchups but is great in one and rides that all the way to the championship. There are tons of factors that effect if you win or not outside of if you are the best player or not. Just as the lesser player is more likely to be able to steal a victory in a BO3 than a BO7 winning one tournament among middling results proves nothing. Winning multiple tournaments and high multiple high finishes however that paints a clearer picture of who the best players actually is, even though form of course is also a factor but its not like Serrals form is bad atm. Edit: Notice how many casters refer to Serral as the best in the world, its not because he won one tournament its because he has proved that through multiple tournaments. When previous Rogue won blizzcon they didn't call him the best player in the world the next year, they called him the ruling world champion, which is just a title and clearly different from actually being the best in the world. I would not use the casters as proof of a player being the best in the world lol, its their job to create hype | ||
swarminfestor
Malaysia2306 Posts
On March 03 2019 07:35 pvsnp wrote: For one more day. The champion of IEM Katowice will be the best player in the world after tomorrow, ipso facto. "Best player in the world" is a title based on form, and form is a day-to-day thing. Hard to be the best when you lose. And in retrospect, Serral's time on the throne wasn't actually exceptional at all–four months between Blizzcon and IEM Katowice when he was considered the undisputed king. sOs and Rogue both managed the double world championship. You are so cute. Damn. | ||
Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 03 2019 08:07 Rodya wrote: The casters refer to Serral as the best in the world because his ethnicity isn't Korean and he's in the top 10 of players. Simple as that. Serral has never been the undisputed #1 player in the world, contrary to what you think. At his peak he was ~rank 2 with Maru above him. This loss at IEM is huge for his legacy because he barely plays any matches against Koreans. He has to beat Maru and Dark at WESG to make up for it if he wants to be considered top 2 anymore. After that he won't play an important tournament with Koreans in it until Blizzcon and then IEM the next year. He really rarely plays - that's why this loss is a big deal for him. I get your points about his loss being a big hit to his position of course but the problem is, you place him at rank 2 at his peak below Maru. That makes me really curious, tell me what player you consider the best in the world and the following rank 2 and 3. While it was possible to rank Maru above Serral even after blizzcon it is not possible any more. Maru cannot be considered the best player in the world anymore based on his results. So who is above Serral? Stats that bombed out of GSL recently? soO based solely on this tournament, he wasn't even at Blizzcon... Dark who got 3-0 right of the bat by Serral at Blizzcon? I simply don't see any player that can be considered better than Serral right now when looking at the broader picture. Edit: Stats I guess maybe you could argue for Stats =P His results are insane even considering he's not in the RO16 GSL. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8764 Posts
On March 03 2019 08:07 Rodya wrote: The casters refer to Serral as the best in the world because his ethnicity isn't Korean and he's in the top 10 of players. Simple as that. Serral has never been the undisputed #1 player in the world, contrary to what you think. At his peak he was ~rank 2 with Maru above him. This loss at IEM is huge for his legacy because he barely plays any matches against Koreans. He has to beat Maru and Dark at WESG to make up for it if he wants to be considered top 2 anymore. After that he won't play an important tournament with Koreans in it until Blizzcon and then IEM the next year. He really rarely plays - that's why this loss is a big deal for him. I wonder how you managed to stay this long without getting banned Edit: I do agree that unless Stats lose to soO in the final tomorrow he has the best case for a "best in the world" throne, his GSL loses is unexpected but he has the best bedigree outside of it. Dark also has a solid case if he win, lost to Serral at Blizzcon and he has been looking super strong since then, plus he gets to play in WESG. | ||
Poopi
France12466 Posts
On March 03 2019 07:26 Shuffleblade wrote: No one has dethroned Serral -_- He is still the best player in the world currently. Reality doesn't work like the "unoffical world champion" thread people, one cut does not make a kill. Lol if you can lose in the tournament and still be the best player in the world it’s still Maru. But it does not work like that and I think Dark will win IEM this year. | ||
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