So if you think "I can't win late game", then simply win before then. Zerg has powerful mid and late game if you are able to get the economy up you need. It's a similar thing with Terran. They always say they can't go into mid game without an advantage, then you just have to get an advantage.
[H]Should I switch race ? - Page 3
Blogs > UFO |
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
So if you think "I can't win late game", then simply win before then. Zerg has powerful mid and late game if you are able to get the economy up you need. It's a similar thing with Terran. They always say they can't go into mid game without an advantage, then you just have to get an advantage. | ||
Sockpuppet
119 Posts
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evilNPC
Germany14 Posts
I do agree to the mindset thing. if you don´t believe in your general ability to do well in zerg lategame in any matchup, you won´t. | ||
OnFire
324 Posts
I mostly open 2 hatch hydra and then get roaches and put spire up shortly after. If he goes collosi, I get like 13 corruptors and rest roach with a little hydra backup. If he goes HT I get tunneling claws and burrow and pump roaches, since you can burrow and move out of storms + you regen alot of health (HT's are way easier to deal with then collosi). If I manage to somehow win/break even in the first 200/200 battle I make BLords and mass roaches and push. It's hard though, since I focus so hard on getting alot of units and good upgrades to survive the 200/200 battle, I don't always have BLord tech ready... That's basically how I play ZvP. | ||
Elean
689 Posts
In a game where both players do nothing but macro, it's an auto loose for Zerg simply because zerg units aren't supply efficient enough. A maxed protoss army with voids+HT+colossus+canons etc., can kill a 200 zerg army with minimal loss, at this point it doesn't matter how many 200 food army the zerg can build. Late game the zerg should have an economic advantage and also an advantage on production capabilities. So the zerg is in a good spot late game as long as he has traded army at least once. To answer the OP question, since you are a macro oriented player, Zerg is probably a good choice for you. About the cheese you have to learn to defend against them. As long as you play a macro game you need to be able to defend early pressure. About your late game problems, try to provoke more army trades before your opponent reach 200, be more aggressive by either harassing or pushing. Do not let them take a third unchallenged. If they try to get to 200 out of 2 bases, their unit composition should not be strong enough to kill you. | ||
partysnatcher
156 Posts
On December 13 2010 18:43 UFO wrote: Hi, I play a lot but I am about to start practicing insanely hard ( 8 hours a day ) . I have a big hopes in sc2 but currently my practice breeds results that I am not satisfied with, at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the race I play, which is zerg. I love zerg but I consider changing my race to protoss. There are several reasons for that : - First, I am a heavy macro oriented player. I love to drag games into the late game and out macro my opponent. With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak. P or T army is just that much stronger than zerg`s 200 and I lost countless games where I had huuuge advantage after early-midgame and still lost simply because my opponent managed to eventually get 200/200 ( despite my harras, drops etc ) and roflstomp me. I think thats the main problem. - Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating. - I lose to players who play a lot less than me. It is just sooo frustrating. So what do you think ? Is changing race a good idea ? Or not ? Why ? I hope you can help me with your advice. As always , thanks you for your support TL <3 Hey, this is a very "superficial" evaluation, but maybe it's useful. To me it sounds like not wanting to engage in early game shenanigans is one of your main limitations. After any loss, you have to genuinely appreciate your opponent's ways of winning, no matter how simple it is. In your post here, you make the argument that Nestea lost against Rain despite being a better player, which is one of the best ways to analyze a game if you don't want to learn a single thing from it. I personally would not increase my practice hours until I was about to compete in a top level tournament against 8 hours/day players. Increasing your "training" is probably not the solution to your problems, and could possibly break your motivation, and make you even more pissed off at your opponent's "simple ways" of winning. I'm a Zerg, and I think Zerg has it's problems, but not lategame. | ||
ruiyang
252 Posts
HOWEVER, the zerg race has huge potential. No good zerg minds practicing more if it means that the race can be extremely good. A 100% perfectly played zerg is almost unstoppable. Also, I'm not quite sure if I agree with your statement that zerg is weak endgame. Yes, 200/200 P/T is really strong but zerg has plenty of options to deny or battle it. I'd rather be concerned about surviving the game's early 10 minutes w/o many losses. | ||
ruiyang
252 Posts
On December 13 2010 22:07 Elean wrote: Zerg is neither strong nor weak in the late game, for a simple reason: how strong you are in the late game depends on what happened in the early and mid game. In a game where both players do nothing but macro, it's an auto loose for Zerg simply because zerg units aren't supply efficient enough. A maxed protoss army with voids+HT+colossus+canons etc., can kill a 200 zerg army with minimal loss, at this point it doesn't matter how many 200 food army the zerg can build. Late game the zerg should have an economic advantage and also an advantage on production capabilities. So the zerg is in a good spot late game as long as he has traded army at least once. To answer the OP question, since you are a macro oriented player, Zerg is probably a good choice for you. About the cheese you have to learn to defend against them. As long as you play a macro game you need to be able to defend early pressure. About your late game problems, try to provoke more army trades before your opponent reach 200, be more aggressive by either harassing or pushing. Do not let them take a third unchallenged. If they try to get to 200 out of 2 bases, their unit composition should not be strong enough to kill you. I agree | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
Z lategame is weak for several reasons, queens cost food, roaches are to high food cost, which means your 200/200 will not equall terran/protoss in strength, no AOE damage other than fungal, which is good against specific army types only. poor static def, when you are maxed protosses can expand and cannon up a bunch of exps and its virtually untouchable by air or ground. Terran makes plantary fortresses and turrets, making the expansion invulnerable. Zerg has to mass units because spines are garbage likewise, also there are more expansions to cover generally. also Zerg tier3 is pretty much a joke, if scouted they are insanely easy to _hard_ counter, except broodlords against P, but even there its not that difficult. I hear ya, I have been thinking about switching to protoss also, zvp right now feels kinda impossible against a good protoss. I have been grinding it out around 2600 pts mark for a while now and I keep a steady record against T and Z but protoss is just bananas to deal with on a good Z map, let alone these protoss maps. chronoboost makes their life so easy, they can have 3-0 upgraded stalkers withint 10minutes while constantly making workers and still producing units, the P macro machine is insane.. | ||
Silidons
United States2813 Posts
zerg controls the pace of the game, you're going to be making entirely different units if they are going roach/hydra vs toss as opposed to muta/ling for example. | ||
arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
On December 13 2010 22:37 Silidons wrote: i don't know why people say zerg is reactionary. do i make immortals when i see your roaches for lulz? do i make blink stalkers or phoenixes when i see your mutas for lulz too? how about terran, do they make siege tanks when they see banes for lulz? zerg controls the pace of the game, you're going to be making entirely different units if they are going roach/hydra vs toss as opposed to muta/ling for example. people say Z is reactionary because a zerg will be producing workers and expanding nonstop unless you make him _react_ to your movements and aggression... its not about what units u make... also creep plays a role in that, Z is reliant on creep to battle effeciently for the most part, so he waits until you are on his turf and reacts accordingly, additionally Z has overwhelmingly best mapcontrol/mappresence with overlords muttas speedlings burrowed units and creep. all which is neccessary to REACT in time to your enemy. edit: every time I play protoss or terran I get the reminder of why I play zerg, it feels like you are in the dark so often for big parts of the game as protoss and terran and have little warning before the shit hits the fan, its something we take for granted as zergs.. just the ability to place overlords around the map is hugely beneficial and I couldnt play without it so I think I will stay loyal to the swarm ;P | ||
dambros
Brazil432 Posts
Zerg late is great but you need to have in mind what day9 always says "you will beat his 200 food army food your 300 food army". You will need to exchange armies and keep pressuring because he cant remake troops as fast as you can. | ||
UFO
582 Posts
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