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Hi,
I play a lot but I am about to start practicing insanely hard ( 8 hours a day ) . I have a big hopes in sc2 but currently my practice breeds results that I am not satisfied with, at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the race I play, which is zerg. I love zerg but I consider changing my race to protoss. There are several reasons for that :
- First, I am a heavy macro oriented player. I love to drag games into the late game and out macro my opponent. With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak. P or T army is just that much stronger than zerg`s 200 and I lost countless games where I had huuuge advantage after early-midgame and still lost simply because my opponent managed to eventually get 200/200 ( despite my harras, drops etc ) and roflstomp me. I think thats the main problem.
- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
- I lose to players who play a lot less than me. It is just sooo frustrating.
So what do you think ? Is changing race a good idea ? Or not ? Why ?
I hope you can help me with your advice.
As always , thanks you for your support TL <3
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- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
Of course it's easy to cheese zerg if he early expand on a Terran-map. Daah!
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I feel the same way everyday. I end up losing to garbage players that are much lower than me on ladder. Especially when you are high up on the ladder it hurts to lose often to such crap. I too have been considering switching to toss but then always remember I have self respect and stick with zerg in the end of the day. Protoss truly takes no skill to master, you could probably learn the race in an hour and then decide which race to play with. I prefer to stick with zerg because the other races just seem to easy. GL with w/e you choose
User was warned for this post
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If you are losing as zerg at the lower levels, it isn't going to be a matter of strategy or play style, most likely its mechanics and basics. Switching races won't do anything but frustrate you in another form for the same problems.
Practicing insanely hard doesn't mean much. How are you practicing? Do you have practice partners? Study groups? Coaching? Replay analysis? Drills?
There are alot of ways to improve at an rts, and just straight laddering in the lower levels doesn't help all that much. Considering one of the options above to help keep you motivated and keep the game fresh and I guarantee you won't be getting as frustrated with zerg.
Glhfgg.
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With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak.
Are you serious? Late game zerg is STRONG, simply because you can endlessly swarm your opponent from 5 hatches full of stacked larva while throwing new hatches everywhere. I don't know why you think late game Z is weak...
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Zerg currently has the strongest late game.. why else do you think almost every Terran in the GSL is trying to end the game early on. :S
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Yeah, zerg is not weak at all in late game. A 200/200 protoss army may be very strong, but it's a very difficult road to get there.
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You claim to be a macro player yet you think Zerg lategame is weak. If you're considering switching races because it doesn't fit yourself well then do it, it's up to you. But don't switch because you think your race is weak. It's likely you aren't playing to your races potential so you can't really make that assessment.
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Z isn't weak lategame, it has a FAR stronger lategame than terran and ZvP lategame is arguable either way.
If you're losing to people who play less and having a hard time late game there are probably just problems you need to work on.
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I don't understand how you can watch GSL games and think that zerg is a weak macro race. The fact that they lose to a lot of cheese is basically because players DON'T want to get into a macro game against a zerg because they simply roll them. If you "get a huge advantage into the mid-game" and get stomped by a 200/200 army then you did not macro very well...
Edit: Yes you're right that generally a zerg 200/200 army of roach/ling/hydra gets killed by a 200/200 terran or protoss army, but if you're macroing well as a zerg, as in 1-2 or more bases more than them, then you'll have enough income and hatches to just remass another 200/200 army and just remax over and over til the terran and toss die.
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ya dude, zerg has the strongest late game.....
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Protoss lategame is ridisulously strong against zerg. Sure, you can argue that zerg lategame is strong, but only if you have a vastly superior economy. In terms of raw unit power, cost wfficiency, not to mention ease of mechanics, protoss is infinitely superior.
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I don't think zerg has weak late game at all, i think it's quite the opposite. Practice more, watch your replays to see what went wrong, and figure out how you can fix it.
i've bounced around between Z and P since beta and i think if your aspiring to be a good player you should stick with Z instead of learning a whole new race. But if your not enjoying your race and you plan to be playing for a long time, give toss a try for a week or so an see how you feeel about them.
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Stop that subjective nonsense about whether what and who is strong at whatever time and point in the game. It is pretty much useless unless it is putten into context and typical in game scenario.
Zerg does indeed have a hard time at the moment. They hardly win any tournaments whatsoever, and to those pointing at GSL. Well screw that! That is long time ago, the game has evolved since then.
To the thread starter. If you feel like changing race, then do it now and don't look back. It is very, very timeconsuming to learn a new race with all their timings and so forth. At the moment terran is by far the most safe race to play thus you can every single time force your opponent into a late game. Anyway, what it all comes down to is simply what you prefer to play. If you choose to stick with zerg, then wait and hope for either a: a patch to come out, or b: some professional will show a safe path.
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On December 13 2010 18:43 UFO wrote: Hi,
I play a lot but I am about to start practicing insanely hard ( 8 hours a day ) . I have a big hopes in sc2 but currently my practice breeds results that I am not satisfied with, at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the race I play, which is zerg. I love zerg but I consider changing my race to protoss. There are several reasons for that :
- First, I am a heavy macro oriented player. I love to drag games into the late game and out macro my opponent. With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak. P or T army is just that much stronger than zerg`s 200 and I lost countless games where I had huuuge advantage after early-midgame and still lost simply because my opponent managed to eventually get 200/200 ( despite my harras, drops etc ) and roflstomp me. I think thats the main problem.
- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
- I lose to players who play a lot less than me. It is just sooo frustrating.
So what do you think ? Is changing race a good idea ? Or not ? Why ?
I hope you can help me with your advice.
As always , thanks you for your support TL <3
Zerg is the strongest late game by far. As we seen in GSL, late game zerg with lots of bases is scary as hell. Max with ultras then switch to max with broodlords then back to ultras as a toss and a terran its really hard to stop. If you like to macro, you stay as zerg.
You will have a lot of trouble with all race. For example with me as toss, I have to deal with muta harass. I have to deal with 2 rax(proxy marauder rax) scv all in as well. I have to deal with nydus, playing blind against 2 base zerg is also extremely scary. There is a pretty big window of time before obs where you have to guess whether zerg is massing ling, econ into roach, mass roach, mass ling, baneling, and lots off stuff. As soon as the first 6-8 lings come out, scouting ends for toss.
As terran, muta harass, baneling bust, 4 gate, dts and dodging baneling. There is a lot of stuff knowing when to get ghost, when to get vikings, how many vikings? Late game terran also have hard time dealing with storm+colossus ball.
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On December 13 2010 18:49 DooMDash wrote: Z weak late game?
This.
You do realise that you can reproduce your army at a faster rate than any of the other races?...
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On December 13 2010 19:11 Mikkerthebhu wrote: Zerg does indeed have a hard time at the moment. They hardly win any tournaments whatsoever, and to those pointing at GSL. Well screw that! That is long time ago, the game has evolved since then.
Uh, what are you talking about. The biggest tournaments (GSL, MLG) have zerg coming out with either a proportional amount or more than a proportional amount of wins. The other ones are too small and as a result are basically determined entirely by whoever the best player to show up is.
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On December 13 2010 18:49 ZomgTossRush wrote: If you are losing as zerg at the lower levels, it isn't going to be a matter of strategy or play style, most likely its mechanics and basics. Switching races won't do anything but frustrate you in another form for the same problems.
Practicing insanely hard doesn't mean much. How are you practicing? Do you have practice partners? Study groups? Coaching? Replay analysis? Drills?
There are alot of ways to improve at an rts, and just straight laddering in the lower levels doesn't help all that much. Considering one of the options above to help keep you motivated and keep the game fresh and I guarantee you won't be getting as frustrated with zerg.
Glhfgg.
I was a BW player and my mechanics are fine, I think. I manage to control everything I need to control in game, especially larva injects , ie I never have any extra cash etc
I actually don`t ladder very much as I find playing with my practice partners a lot more beneficial. This way I am only 900 pts diamond but I play on par with 2000+ practice partners.
I watch a whole ton of replays, all replays of my games where I correct every single mistake I find and I try to play as perfectly as I can every game, putting all my heart into it so I think my practice is fine too. Well, almost fine as I don`t really have any coaches.
Still, most times when I lose I get this horrible, awful feeling that there was just nothing I could do to win. Like, I would watch replay 3-5 times and still couldn`t figure out how could I have won a game.
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On December 13 2010 19:23 UFO wrote:Most times when I lose I get this horrible, awful feeling that there was just nothing I could do to win. Like, I would watch replay 3-5 times and still couldn`t figure out how could I have won a game.
You should post those up and get feedback on them. Finding mistakes in your play is a skill in itself, and it's something you can work on. There's no situation on this game where you can't do anything to win, so that itself is a statement that should tell you something.
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Honestly I think if u r really gonna try to get somewhere do NOT play Zerg. It's just to the point that unless u get lucky as Zerg and the P or T (especially T) screws up really bad, you don't have an even chance of winning. Zerg is just way too unreliable and weak while it's too easy for Terran especially to just block you out of getting the needed expansions.
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To be honest if you think zerg is weak late game you must have been doing something wrong.
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funny that i was going to ask a similiar question - it feels like that i lose to horrible players just because they allin you and even after you scouted it its still very tough to defend if your opponent micros properly - i think about switching races right now - i feel that i could get way more consistant results with a different race. Right now i win 10 in a row and lose 10 in a row
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Switching race never makes you instantly better and you dont get good through quickfixes. You have to grind it out! Stick with it man you can do it!
If you hate losing to cheese (like me) then you feel satisfaction when you beat it with Zerg especially, i have gone through what you are and i try to just not think about it and focus on what i can improve on.
If its any consolation as you get better the amount of cheese tends to fall off and you get better at scouting/defeating it.
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On December 13 2010 19:25 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:23 UFO wrote:Most times when I lose I get this horrible, awful feeling that there was just nothing I could do to win. Like, I would watch replay 3-5 times and still couldn`t figure out how could I have won a game. You should post those up and get feedback on them. Finding mistakes in your play is a skill in itself, and it's something you can work on. There's no situation on this game where you can't do anything to win, so that itself is a statement that should tell you something.
I posted a lot of threads with my games actually
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No, don't switch race because of that.
I am a protoss player that loves macro as well and I am considering switching to zerg because of that :D
The thing is, playing vs zerg, you can not go to macro mode because you get automacroed. You have to do a push and deal damage or else zerg's macro just kills you a bit later. That's the reason you see so much early pressure against zergs in the first place. And zergs are susceptible to it because they try to skim fighting units for as long as possible.
Although it is true that 200 terran or protoss army is stronger than 200 zerg army even though they have the easiest time replacing a 200 army... Maybe you are not playing correctly in the midgame?
That's just how I see things from my protoss perspective. Hope it helps
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i consider switching from Zerg because almost every game is allin, be it Cannon Rush, 2 Rax, 2 gate Proxy bla bla etc, its just boring to play atm.
Zerg is incredibly strong if played well, sure you have your early game weaknesses but you can play safe and win later...
the only problem as Zerg i see currently is, its boring. Most of the time you don't even need to scout and know whats coming.
Switch Race if Zerg gets too boring, else stick with it, if you loose its because you play bad.
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Zerg actually has the weakest late game stuff - just watch a single game from Piqliq. You can turtle up hardcore in the lategame as protoss or Terran get your 200/200 army and you are basically invincible. Piqliq some 3xxx Player is doing the same like every game PvZ he gets Voidrays and mass cannons and in the lategame he adds storm and is basically invincible you cant attack into ~ 15+ cannons the only way to counter voidrays is infestors + hydras, you will never have enough mutas and even if you get enough mutas the toss can switch to phenix ridicilously fast and there is like nothing you can do.
I dont say that protoss is imbalanced since there are ways to stop them to get voidrays + storm but once they have it you cant stop it without perfect micro.
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lol I herd dat OP a troll?
I suggest you switch to this race called real life
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 13 2010 19:46 idonthinksobro wrote: Zerg actually has the weakest late game stuff - just watch a single game from Piqliq. You can turtle up hardcore in the lategame as protoss or Terran get your 200/200 army and you are basically invincible. Piqliq some 3xxx Player is doing the same like every game PvZ he gets Voidrays and mass cannons and in the lategame he adds storm and is basically invincible you cant attack into ~ 15+ cannons the only way to counter voidrays is infestors + hydras, you will never have enough mutas and even if you get enough mutas the toss can switch to phenix ridicilously fast and there is like nothing you can do.
I dont say that protoss is imbalanced since there are ways to stop them to get voidrays + storm but once they have it you cant stop it without perfect micro.
Your Point is?, your toss buddy will run out of resources sometime soon, just get a few more queens on inject and send wave after wave.
+Map Control ftw, expo expo expo.
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On December 13 2010 19:51 TekKpriest wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:46 idonthinksobro wrote: Zerg actually has the weakest late game stuff - just watch a single game from Piqliq. You can turtle up hardcore in the lategame as protoss or Terran get your 200/200 army and you are basically invincible. Piqliq some 3xxx Player is doing the same like every game PvZ he gets Voidrays and mass cannons and in the lategame he adds storm and is basically invincible you cant attack into ~ 15+ cannons the only way to counter voidrays is infestors + hydras, you will never have enough mutas and even if you get enough mutas the toss can switch to phenix ridicilously fast and there is like nothing you can do.
I dont say that protoss is imbalanced since there are ways to stop them to get voidrays + storm but once they have it you cant stop it without perfect micro. Your Point is?, your toss buddy will run out of resources sometime soon, just get a few more queens on inject and send wave after wave. +Map Control ftw, expo expo expo.
In other words - the Protoss never attacks uses cannons to secure 4th and 5th bases and still has a 200/200 army to defend his bases, the fact that he turtles doesnt mean he isnt expanding at all - and i dont know if you are a zerg player but its pretty tough to get mapcontrol with roach/hydra on a map like meta cross positions. Protoss late game units are just way more costeffective - even if its like 6 bases against 4.
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To everybody saying that zerg is the strongest endgame race:
- You really have to understand the difference between strenght in numbers and raw strenght. With the shitload of small maps there is no "late-game" where zerg can have 5+ hatcheries and win due to numbers. Every 2 player map makes it shithard for zerg to get a 4th base.
So if Protoss/Terran is smart enough to turtle and place enough siege tanks/forcefields on these small maps. There is NO WAY that zerg can break in the bases. When they hit 200/200 and move out there is no way you can stop them as zerg. NO FREAKING WAY. But there are other ways of course.
But zerg is far from the worst race. Zerg just has to dare to be behind sometimes. Currently all Zergs feel like they have to be in front 24/7. Otherwise the game is lost. I don't believe that.
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z dose have a weaker army at 200 but they are the economy race so they can re max way faster then t or p so u can kill most of there army then re-max in seconds if you have enough larva stockpilled.
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What's up with these threads anyway? :s
If you really feel like you might want to change your race, just try to play the other races over a longer period of time and get a feel for what you are most comfortable with.
No subjective view on this matter will help you in a useful way.
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On December 13 2010 18:48 Seanzilla wrote: I feel the same way everyday. I end up losing to garbage players that are much lower than me on ladder. Especially when you are high up on the ladder it hurts to lose often to such crap. I too have been considering switching to toss but then always remember I have self respect and stick with zerg in the end of the day. Protoss truly takes no skill to master, you could probably learn the race in an hour and then decide which race to play with. I prefer to stick with zerg because the other races just seem to easy. GL with w/e you choose
What a dumb ignorant comment.
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On December 13 2010 19:26 FlamingTurd wrote: Honestly I think if u r really gonna try to get somewhere do NOT play Zerg. It's just to the point that unless u get lucky as Zerg and the P or T (especially T) screws up really bad, you don't have an even chance of winning. Zerg is just way too unreliable and weak while it's too easy for Terran especially to just block you out of getting the needed expansions.
So unless the T or P makes a colossal mistake, zerg can't win ever?
Wow I never knew that.
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On December 13 2010 18:48 Seanzilla wrote: I feel the same way everyday. I end up losing to garbage players that are much lower than me on ladder. Especially when you are high up on the ladder it hurts to lose often to such crap. I too have been considering switching to toss but then always remember I have self respect and stick with zerg in the end of the day. Protoss truly takes no skill to master, you could probably learn the race in an hour and then decide which race to play with. I prefer to stick with zerg because the other races just seem to easy. GL with w/e you choose
I used to think protoss took no skill as well, then I raceswitched to it, and its fucking hard to even learn. I lose so much as protoss, its not even funny. They are insanely hard to learn, as you have to have very solid unit control which makes or breaks a game.
Protoss is hard to learn, almost impossible to master.
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I dont think it is zerg which is the problem. If you had said you like long macro games where your relatively passive and try to play defensively taking expansions in good timing then I would suggest you change to protoss or even terran.
I feel while zerg is the macro race, it has to play pretty offensively to happily expand and macro up more. Obviously the reason for this is due to the lack of being able to bunker in as effectively. As a whole though there is nothing stopping you using the either of the races in a way which fits your style.
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hm when i played zerg pre patch because they were so "up" i won against way better players then before, simply because zerg macro was so easy to execute unlike terran macro. (my micro is really bad so macro races fit me more as my ladder experience goes) Imo zerg needs a good eye for weakspots in enemy defenses and sadly zerg can abuse this weak spots so fast, that you will lose alot more then the zerg does. Pumping units and a click them over the map may work until some point were people can set up good defend positions that you have to avoid.
You will probably be happiest with terran because their macro is way harder to execute then zerg or toss macro. And you don't have to be that creativ as you have to be with zerg. (dieing to test out burrowed banelings vs heavy sentry toss but must play terran argh ^^ )
But you sound like you want high damage t3 units that weap away everything, so i think you should test out protoss first. It won't be that easy to get there though.
edit: noticed alot of zergs complayining about t3 stuff lately (imo zerg was always designed to be strongest with t2, since they are a mass race) , prolly because they don't like their upcoming ultralisk buff. Seems like another plan to get imba ! soooo Evil .... terrans should plot also so 250mm strike canons get aoe stun mwahahaha.
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Another good tip to the threadstarter. Try out YABOT (Yet another build order tester), it gives you a good insight of the other races. Once you have learned some basic builds you can go on to play random and from then choose your favourit race.
There are so many crap posts in this thread that it hurts my brain
Good luck mate!
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To the OP: It sounds like a mindset issue in my eyes. If you believe it's your race that makes you weak instead of trying to understand what is going wrong and how you can use the races strengths to your advantage, you are always going to struggle. Races have strengths and weaknesses, you have to grasp these and learn to adapt your play to use them to your advantage. The game is quite balance now, there is no matchup that has no period of time you can't win in.
So if you think "I can't win late game", then simply win before then. Zerg has powerful mid and late game if you are able to get the economy up you need. It's a similar thing with Terran. They always say they can't go into mid game without an advantage, then you just have to get an advantage.
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The key to playing Z is to Never let your opponenteach 200 food, you gotta harrass him: zergling drops, nydus, etc. So that you can free up supply for ultras or BLs, when you have tier 3 when he pushes out you canKill im no problem. And if he does Kill your army you can rebuild the entire thing much faster than any other race can.
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I guess the easiest way to find out if protoss suits you more would be to... just switch für a while. play mass protoss für 2 or 3 weeks, observe your own progress as objectively as possible and see if it feels better for you all in all. if it doesn´t work out: switch back, nothing lost - I guess you´re not supposed to be a top-10-in-the-world by the end of next week anyway. I do agree to the mindset thing. if you don´t believe in your general ability to do well in zerg lategame in any matchup, you won´t.
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Zerg's lategame is bad against Protoss without BLords... I mostly open 2 hatch hydra and then get roaches and put spire up shortly after. If he goes collosi, I get like 13 corruptors and rest roach with a little hydra backup. If he goes HT I get tunneling claws and burrow and pump roaches, since you can burrow and move out of storms + you regen alot of health (HT's are way easier to deal with then collosi). If I manage to somehow win/break even in the first 200/200 battle I make BLords and mass roaches and push. It's hard though, since I focus so hard on getting alot of units and good upgrades to survive the 200/200 battle, I don't always have BLord tech ready...
That's basically how I play ZvP.
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Zerg is neither strong nor weak in the late game, for a simple reason: how strong you are in the late game depends on what happened in the early and mid game.
In a game where both players do nothing but macro, it's an auto loose for Zerg simply because zerg units aren't supply efficient enough. A maxed protoss army with voids+HT+colossus+canons etc., can kill a 200 zerg army with minimal loss, at this point it doesn't matter how many 200 food army the zerg can build.
Late game the zerg should have an economic advantage and also an advantage on production capabilities. So the zerg is in a good spot late game as long as he has traded army at least once.
To answer the OP question, since you are a macro oriented player, Zerg is probably a good choice for you. About the cheese you have to learn to defend against them. As long as you play a macro game you need to be able to defend early pressure.
About your late game problems, try to provoke more army trades before your opponent reach 200, be more aggressive by either harassing or pushing. Do not let them take a third unchallenged. If they try to get to 200 out of 2 bases, their unit composition should not be strong enough to kill you.
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On December 13 2010 18:43 UFO wrote: Hi,
I play a lot but I am about to start practicing insanely hard ( 8 hours a day ) . I have a big hopes in sc2 but currently my practice breeds results that I am not satisfied with, at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the race I play, which is zerg. I love zerg but I consider changing my race to protoss. There are several reasons for that :
- First, I am a heavy macro oriented player. I love to drag games into the late game and out macro my opponent. With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak. P or T army is just that much stronger than zerg`s 200 and I lost countless games where I had huuuge advantage after early-midgame and still lost simply because my opponent managed to eventually get 200/200 ( despite my harras, drops etc ) and roflstomp me. I think thats the main problem.
- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
- I lose to players who play a lot less than me. It is just sooo frustrating.
So what do you think ? Is changing race a good idea ? Or not ? Why ?
I hope you can help me with your advice.
As always , thanks you for your support TL <3
Hey, this is a very "superficial" evaluation, but maybe it's useful. To me it sounds like not wanting to engage in early game shenanigans is one of your main limitations. After any loss, you have to genuinely appreciate your opponent's ways of winning, no matter how simple it is.
In your post here, you make the argument that Nestea lost against Rain despite being a better player, which is one of the best ways to analyze a game if you don't want to learn a single thing from it.
I personally would not increase my practice hours until I was about to compete in a top level tournament against 8 hours/day players. Increasing your "training" is probably not the solution to your problems, and could possibly break your motivation, and make you even more pissed off at your opponent's "simple ways" of winning.
I'm a Zerg, and I think Zerg has it's problems, but not lategame.
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I have the same feeling when playing zerg altho Im a 2700rating zerg. I need to put in a lot more effort than other races and thats almost a fact of the zerg race because you have to play reactionary. It's simply a lot easier to do a timing attack than to learn every single counter. Many top players agree to this: e.g. Morrow switching cus he believes he can put more time in zerg to improve as to terran which requires him few hours practice per day to dominate tourneys.
HOWEVER, the zerg race has huge potential. No good zerg minds practicing more if it means that the race can be extremely good. A 100% perfectly played zerg is almost unstoppable. Also, I'm not quite sure if I agree with your statement that zerg is weak endgame. Yes, 200/200 P/T is really strong but zerg has plenty of options to deny or battle it. I'd rather be concerned about surviving the game's early 10 minutes w/o many losses.
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On December 13 2010 22:07 Elean wrote: Zerg is neither strong nor weak in the late game, for a simple reason: how strong you are in the late game depends on what happened in the early and mid game.
In a game where both players do nothing but macro, it's an auto loose for Zerg simply because zerg units aren't supply efficient enough. A maxed protoss army with voids+HT+colossus+canons etc., can kill a 200 zerg army with minimal loss, at this point it doesn't matter how many 200 food army the zerg can build.
Late game the zerg should have an economic advantage and also an advantage on production capabilities. So the zerg is in a good spot late game as long as he has traded army at least once.
To answer the OP question, since you are a macro oriented player, Zerg is probably a good choice for you. About the cheese you have to learn to defend against them. As long as you play a macro game you need to be able to defend early pressure.
About your late game problems, try to provoke more army trades before your opponent reach 200, be more aggressive by either harassing or pushing. Do not let them take a third unchallenged. If they try to get to 200 out of 2 bases, their unit composition should not be strong enough to kill you.
I agree
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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lol at these bronze leaguers who are like Lol Look at zerg 5 base swarming OMg endless larvae... ofcourse in games were you vastly outmacro your opponent it looks like Z lategame is strong, but against capable protosses and terrans they can keep up with zerg macro for the most part, atleast protoss.
Z lategame is weak for several reasons, queens cost food, roaches are to high food cost, which means your 200/200 will not equall terran/protoss in strength, no AOE damage other than fungal, which is good against specific army types only.
poor static def, when you are maxed protosses can expand and cannon up a bunch of exps and its virtually untouchable by air or ground. Terran makes plantary fortresses and turrets, making the expansion invulnerable. Zerg has to mass units because spines are garbage likewise, also there are more expansions to cover generally.
also Zerg tier3 is pretty much a joke, if scouted they are insanely easy to _hard_ counter, except broodlords against P, but even there its not that difficult.
I hear ya, I have been thinking about switching to protoss also, zvp right now feels kinda impossible against a good protoss. I have been grinding it out around 2600 pts mark for a while now and I keep a steady record against T and Z but protoss is just bananas to deal with on a good Z map, let alone these protoss maps.
chronoboost makes their life so easy, they can have 3-0 upgraded stalkers withint 10minutes while constantly making workers and still producing units, the P macro machine is insane..
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i don't know why people say zerg is reactionary. do i make immortals when i see your roaches for lulz? do i make blink stalkers or phoenixes when i see your mutas for lulz too? how about terran, do they make siege tanks when they see banes for lulz?
zerg controls the pace of the game, you're going to be making entirely different units if they are going roach/hydra vs toss as opposed to muta/ling for example.
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On December 13 2010 22:37 Silidons wrote: i don't know why people say zerg is reactionary. do i make immortals when i see your roaches for lulz? do i make blink stalkers or phoenixes when i see your mutas for lulz too? how about terran, do they make siege tanks when they see banes for lulz?
zerg controls the pace of the game, you're going to be making entirely different units if they are going roach/hydra vs toss as opposed to muta/ling for example.
people say Z is reactionary because a zerg will be producing workers and expanding nonstop unless you make him _react_ to your movements and aggression... its not about what units u make...
also creep plays a role in that, Z is reliant on creep to battle effeciently for the most part, so he waits until you are on his turf and reacts accordingly, additionally Z has overwhelmingly best mapcontrol/mappresence with overlords muttas speedlings burrowed units and creep. all which is neccessary to REACT in time to your enemy.
edit: every time I play protoss or terran I get the reminder of why I play zerg, it feels like you are in the dark so often for big parts of the game as protoss and terran and have little warning before the shit hits the fan, its something we take for granted as zergs.. just the ability to place overlords around the map is hugely beneficial and I couldnt play without it so I think I will stay loyal to the swarm ;P
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I guess the hardest part about playing toss is the amount of mirror you get on the ladder. I dont play it, but I watch streams very often and like 50% of their matches are PvP.
Zerg late is great but you need to have in mind what day9 always says "you will beat his 200 food army food your 300 food army". You will need to exchange armies and keep pressuring because he cant remake troops as fast as you can.
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Big problem are maps ... I mean u can play something on Shakuras but on any non-zerg map like Jungle Basin or Sow you have no fucking chance in a macro game. Fuck, srsly who the fuck did those maps ..
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