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Hi,
I play a lot but I am about to start practicing insanely hard ( 8 hours a day ) . I have a big hopes in sc2 but currently my practice breeds results that I am not satisfied with, at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the race I play, which is zerg. I love zerg but I consider changing my race to protoss. There are several reasons for that :
- First, I am a heavy macro oriented player. I love to drag games into the late game and out macro my opponent. With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak. P or T army is just that much stronger than zerg`s 200 and I lost countless games where I had huuuge advantage after early-midgame and still lost simply because my opponent managed to eventually get 200/200 ( despite my harras, drops etc ) and roflstomp me. I think thats the main problem.
- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
- I lose to players who play a lot less than me. It is just sooo frustrating.
So what do you think ? Is changing race a good idea ? Or not ? Why ?
I hope you can help me with your advice.
As always , thanks you for your support TL <3
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- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
Of course it's easy to cheese zerg if he early expand on a Terran-map. Daah!
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I feel the same way everyday. I end up losing to garbage players that are much lower than me on ladder. Especially when you are high up on the ladder it hurts to lose often to such crap. I too have been considering switching to toss but then always remember I have self respect and stick with zerg in the end of the day. Protoss truly takes no skill to master, you could probably learn the race in an hour and then decide which race to play with. I prefer to stick with zerg because the other races just seem to easy. GL with w/e you choose
User was warned for this post
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If you are losing as zerg at the lower levels, it isn't going to be a matter of strategy or play style, most likely its mechanics and basics. Switching races won't do anything but frustrate you in another form for the same problems.
Practicing insanely hard doesn't mean much. How are you practicing? Do you have practice partners? Study groups? Coaching? Replay analysis? Drills?
There are alot of ways to improve at an rts, and just straight laddering in the lower levels doesn't help all that much. Considering one of the options above to help keep you motivated and keep the game fresh and I guarantee you won't be getting as frustrated with zerg.
Glhfgg.
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With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak.
Are you serious? Late game zerg is STRONG, simply because you can endlessly swarm your opponent from 5 hatches full of stacked larva while throwing new hatches everywhere. I don't know why you think late game Z is weak...
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Zerg currently has the strongest late game.. why else do you think almost every Terran in the GSL is trying to end the game early on. :S
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Yeah, zerg is not weak at all in late game. A 200/200 protoss army may be very strong, but it's a very difficult road to get there.
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You claim to be a macro player yet you think Zerg lategame is weak. If you're considering switching races because it doesn't fit yourself well then do it, it's up to you. But don't switch because you think your race is weak. It's likely you aren't playing to your races potential so you can't really make that assessment.
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Z isn't weak lategame, it has a FAR stronger lategame than terran and ZvP lategame is arguable either way.
If you're losing to people who play less and having a hard time late game there are probably just problems you need to work on.
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I don't understand how you can watch GSL games and think that zerg is a weak macro race. The fact that they lose to a lot of cheese is basically because players DON'T want to get into a macro game against a zerg because they simply roll them. If you "get a huge advantage into the mid-game" and get stomped by a 200/200 army then you did not macro very well...
Edit: Yes you're right that generally a zerg 200/200 army of roach/ling/hydra gets killed by a 200/200 terran or protoss army, but if you're macroing well as a zerg, as in 1-2 or more bases more than them, then you'll have enough income and hatches to just remass another 200/200 army and just remax over and over til the terran and toss die.
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ya dude, zerg has the strongest late game.....
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Protoss lategame is ridisulously strong against zerg. Sure, you can argue that zerg lategame is strong, but only if you have a vastly superior economy. In terms of raw unit power, cost wfficiency, not to mention ease of mechanics, protoss is infinitely superior.
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I don't think zerg has weak late game at all, i think it's quite the opposite. Practice more, watch your replays to see what went wrong, and figure out how you can fix it.
i've bounced around between Z and P since beta and i think if your aspiring to be a good player you should stick with Z instead of learning a whole new race. But if your not enjoying your race and you plan to be playing for a long time, give toss a try for a week or so an see how you feeel about them.
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Stop that subjective nonsense about whether what and who is strong at whatever time and point in the game. It is pretty much useless unless it is putten into context and typical in game scenario.
Zerg does indeed have a hard time at the moment. They hardly win any tournaments whatsoever, and to those pointing at GSL. Well screw that! That is long time ago, the game has evolved since then.
To the thread starter. If you feel like changing race, then do it now and don't look back. It is very, very timeconsuming to learn a new race with all their timings and so forth. At the moment terran is by far the most safe race to play thus you can every single time force your opponent into a late game. Anyway, what it all comes down to is simply what you prefer to play. If you choose to stick with zerg, then wait and hope for either a: a patch to come out, or b: some professional will show a safe path.
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On December 13 2010 18:43 UFO wrote: Hi,
I play a lot but I am about to start practicing insanely hard ( 8 hours a day ) . I have a big hopes in sc2 but currently my practice breeds results that I am not satisfied with, at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the race I play, which is zerg. I love zerg but I consider changing my race to protoss. There are several reasons for that :
- First, I am a heavy macro oriented player. I love to drag games into the late game and out macro my opponent. With zerg though, I feel like this style doesn`t fit this race, simply because late game zerg is extremely weak. P or T army is just that much stronger than zerg`s 200 and I lost countless games where I had huuuge advantage after early-midgame and still lost simply because my opponent managed to eventually get 200/200 ( despite my harras, drops etc ) and roflstomp me. I think thats the main problem.
- Secondly, the zerg is so suspectible to cheese. Seeing games like Nestea vs Rain just breaks my zerg heart. You can be a lot better player and you will still lose a whole lot to lesser gamers simply because of that. Its really demotivating.
- I lose to players who play a lot less than me. It is just sooo frustrating.
So what do you think ? Is changing race a good idea ? Or not ? Why ?
I hope you can help me with your advice.
As always , thanks you for your support TL <3
Zerg is the strongest late game by far. As we seen in GSL, late game zerg with lots of bases is scary as hell. Max with ultras then switch to max with broodlords then back to ultras as a toss and a terran its really hard to stop. If you like to macro, you stay as zerg.
You will have a lot of trouble with all race. For example with me as toss, I have to deal with muta harass. I have to deal with 2 rax(proxy marauder rax) scv all in as well. I have to deal with nydus, playing blind against 2 base zerg is also extremely scary. There is a pretty big window of time before obs where you have to guess whether zerg is massing ling, econ into roach, mass roach, mass ling, baneling, and lots off stuff. As soon as the first 6-8 lings come out, scouting ends for toss.
As terran, muta harass, baneling bust, 4 gate, dts and dodging baneling. There is a lot of stuff knowing when to get ghost, when to get vikings, how many vikings? Late game terran also have hard time dealing with storm+colossus ball.
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On December 13 2010 18:49 DooMDash wrote: Z weak late game?
This.
You do realise that you can reproduce your army at a faster rate than any of the other races?...
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On December 13 2010 19:11 Mikkerthebhu wrote: Zerg does indeed have a hard time at the moment. They hardly win any tournaments whatsoever, and to those pointing at GSL. Well screw that! That is long time ago, the game has evolved since then.
Uh, what are you talking about. The biggest tournaments (GSL, MLG) have zerg coming out with either a proportional amount or more than a proportional amount of wins. The other ones are too small and as a result are basically determined entirely by whoever the best player to show up is.
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On December 13 2010 18:49 ZomgTossRush wrote: If you are losing as zerg at the lower levels, it isn't going to be a matter of strategy or play style, most likely its mechanics and basics. Switching races won't do anything but frustrate you in another form for the same problems.
Practicing insanely hard doesn't mean much. How are you practicing? Do you have practice partners? Study groups? Coaching? Replay analysis? Drills?
There are alot of ways to improve at an rts, and just straight laddering in the lower levels doesn't help all that much. Considering one of the options above to help keep you motivated and keep the game fresh and I guarantee you won't be getting as frustrated with zerg.
Glhfgg.
I was a BW player and my mechanics are fine, I think. I manage to control everything I need to control in game, especially larva injects , ie I never have any extra cash etc
I actually don`t ladder very much as I find playing with my practice partners a lot more beneficial. This way I am only 900 pts diamond but I play on par with 2000+ practice partners.
I watch a whole ton of replays, all replays of my games where I correct every single mistake I find and I try to play as perfectly as I can every game, putting all my heart into it so I think my practice is fine too. Well, almost fine as I don`t really have any coaches.
Still, most times when I lose I get this horrible, awful feeling that there was just nothing I could do to win. Like, I would watch replay 3-5 times and still couldn`t figure out how could I have won a game.
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On December 13 2010 19:23 UFO wrote:Most times when I lose I get this horrible, awful feeling that there was just nothing I could do to win. Like, I would watch replay 3-5 times and still couldn`t figure out how could I have won a game.
You should post those up and get feedback on them. Finding mistakes in your play is a skill in itself, and it's something you can work on. There's no situation on this game where you can't do anything to win, so that itself is a statement that should tell you something.
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