If you've not consumed a fair bit of Star Trek this may not be the blog for you, but I am about ten episodes away from the final episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine, and for my money this series is as good if not better than The Next Generation. Now I am going to add a couple of caveats to such a heretical statement in the realm of televised science fiction. First off, this is not a slight against Picard, he is still my favorite captain, but in terms of story telling we almost completely miss the progression of Picard from cadet to renowned Captain. You come in to TNG with everyone already in awe of the captain of Starfleet's Flagship, I think this is a missed opportunity barring overly campy flashbacks with "young Picard,". Secondly, no TNG no DS9, all credit where credit is due. Full disclosure this will contain spoilers.
Fuck yeah, Vorta
I've been coming to this conclusion over the course of seasons five and six, as the war with the Dominion slowly comes to a head. This brings me to my first point, the major, story arcs for each respective series. On the one hand we have the Borg, an antagonist close to my heart as a Zerg player, the idea of assimilating races for the betterment of a whole was fantastic when they were first introduced. They are vicious, ruthless and brought into the series by one of my favorite elements of TNG which is the Q Continuum (A race of omnipotent beings, nigh all powerful races (or so we're led to believe) for those who are unfamiliar.)
On the other hand we have the Dominion, an empire chaired by a race of shapeshifters who have crafted soldiers, overseers, and misc to view them as gods, and do everything within their will power to satisfy the will of their distant gods. This of course is predicated by a lot of mess about a miserable little planet called Bajor, which had been recently liberated from Cardassian occupation the near the year the series begins. Credit to TNG for the Cardassians, but DS9 took this and ran with it.
Both arcs have their merit, but DS9, past the initial fleshing out of Bajoran custom, and religion, feels a hell of a lot less beholden to its antagonists than TNG ever did.
The actual station DS9, what was a Cardassian ore facility placed in the charge of Starfleet as Bajor attempts to get back on its feet via provisional government
This leads me to my first bit, which I briefly touched on: The Captains (Commander)
The Captains
Commander (Later Captain) Benjamin Sisko, the lovely gentleman to the left, was placed in charge of DS9 shortly after the occupation, by the end of things he has made something out of that piece of shit, bicycle wheel of a station.Turned it from the bumfuck, boonie, backwater station near a planet matching that description rather aptly, into the defensive outpost guarding the wormhole against Dominion invasion. (Minor detail the Dominion threat comes from the Gamma quadrant, years away at maximum warp, the discovery of the only stable wormhole known, leads to it being revealed to the Federation.).
The initial downside to Sisko is that Avery Brooks's delivery and acting is stiff by Star Trek standards, which is saying something; You get similar feelings with Picard but for most people watching, you'll have some semblance of an idea as to what Picard is meant to mean and this makes digesting Patrick Stewart markedly easier)
Tying this back into my earlier point, one of the best aspects of DS9 is watching the crew make something of their environment, they aren't gifted the creme de la creme of Federation technology. I would love to see what Picard did on the Stargazer, a ship which he captained prior to his assignment to the Enterprise, but we have very little to go on. Patrick Stewart owned this role like nothing else, but every little dance into the past was cumbersome, and you just wind up comparing the role of "Young Jean Luc Picard" against Patrick Stewart which is inherently unfair,
The Crews
Hella early pictures of both, as evidenced by Tasha Yar, and the makeup
This is where we first come into the discussion about Space Station vs. Starship, while the latter offers more situational opportunity and exposure to misc. alien races n'er to be seen again, the former offers something that Enterprise A-E had yet to dive into: well rounded development of most of the crew (O'Brian notwithstanding). I mention O'Brian as he is grandfathered in from the Enterprise to facilitate the transition to this new Trek reality (though both shows aired simultaneously for a short while), Worf followed three or so seasons later.
TNG is littered with episodes that feel forced, this is specific to race/world/tradition based episodes. Betazed is a perfect example of this. Troi's mother, and in fact a fair few of Troi-centric episodes are endurance trials to see how much of her counseling you can take. While DS9 is not without similar episodes, I have yet to recall an episode I basically had to abandon completely because of my being able to tell nothing significant would happen, and it was all petty, non-developmental drama.
While the Ferengi story lines are the most tedious in my opinion, but Nog, Rom, and Quark are much less interesting in the context of Ferengi society than they are on the station. Even the least interesting character, O'Brian, the bridge from TNG to DS9, has some brilliant episodes, in particular a Twilight Zone-esq episode revolving around his experiencing 20 years of incarceration in a matter of hours (Via Alien technology, the great plot equalizer).The most belabored point in DS9 is the fleshing out of Bajoran society, down the line this becomes well worth it, but going through it you get to feeling like Bajor could die and no one should give a fuck about it because it is so boring and or unreasonable.
The (W)(V)essels
While DS9 is not much of a wessel, relative to the Enterprise D and or E, if you'll indulge me by entering into the TNG movies, it is honest. I mentioned this before, the luxuries of the Enterprise put it a class above of DS9, but there are very few times I can recall in TNG, where you really felt the limitations of the ship. Up into the point where the Federation opts to invest in the station, that is to say when it becomes a strategic point of value, DS9 is constantly bumping into the limitations of the fact that the station was not designed for its eventual use. Something which I feel adds to the drama involved in the series. Enterprise all day every day, but DS9 makes for a much more interesting story. Finally:
The Enemies
Both series opted for nigh unstoppable enemies, and suffered from the seemingly unavoidable issue of scaling the difficulty of facing said enemy. Both Jem'Hadar, and the Borg started as an indomitable enemy, to be avoided at all costs, and both to a real extent became enemies with which the Federation could hold their footing.
Where the Jem'Hadar improve upon the Borg in my opinion is their actual humanity. Sure we had Hugh, a brief foray into humanizing the Borg, but the idea is so antithetical to the principles of the race, the damage inflicted by his individuality (as an infection to the Borg hive mind, as heavy handed as that is) is only briefly touched upon. The Jem'Hadar are quickly improved upon through their demonstrated ability to think beyond their genetically pre-programmed situation. Something a bit more akin to the transition of Klingon culture from unwavering warrior culture to wavering warrior culture. As principle antagonists are concerned we are made much more privy to the actual goings ons within the Jem'Hadar, Vorta, and Dominion that we ever were regarding the cubes that intermittently showed up within Federation space, only to disappear. This plot point serves as an initial point of contention between Picard and Sisko in episode one of DS9 as Locutus, the Borg-itized version of Picard was responsible for the death of Sisko's own wife.
Long story short, comparatively speaking, the Borg are very one dimensional.
The Conclusion
TNG bore the brunt of establishing a dialog for the Alpha Quadrant, and suffered the adolescent years that are to be expected of an extension of Star Trek, DS9 reaped the benefits. The shifts in writing staff throughout each series led to strengths and weaknesses but on the whole, the Dominion, a tangible, well fleshed out enemy with some describable structure makes for the much more intriguing enemy. Now that I am here, I think it merits calling out that DS9 does a much better job of illustrating the ripples within Starfleet that keep it... human-ish for lack of a better term.
The baseball game between the Vulcans and DS9 is a great example of this. I'll end it on the fact that we get to watch this crew build something, that they come up with many of the solutions and improvements to the station that make it great. For once in Star Trek we are also relatively rooted, TNG was often beleaguered with the fact that one would expect a Starship to be constantly intransit; DS9 offered Trekkies, or Trekkers if you are wont to debate the merits of either the chance to lay down roots on Bajor.
All in all it is a matter of preference, but if you are wont to Star Trek. Give DS9 its fair go, and don't root it too much in TNG. It is an entirely different kind of rewarding.
I'm not a Star Trek guy, but from what I hear isn't DS9 supposed to actually be held as a superior series among the true ST fanatics as compared to TNG? Or maybe my sci-fi buddy is just a DS9 fanboy who is attempting to sway me based off of my own ignorance.
I've seen bits and pieces of both series but not enough to really form a valid opinion as to whether one is superior to the other (or even if the series as a whole is good/bad). From what I've seen, every episode seems to basically be an issue on morals/ethics, which is a kind of theme I can't stomach for more than 1 sitting a week. And given that I'm kind of a watch-TV-rarely-but-binge-when-I-do viewer (as a quasi-member of the Netflix generation) both shows didn't hold too much appeal for me. Ironically, this show would've probably been one of my favs if it was only showed weekly on the TV when it came out long ago.
Edit: On that note, I think I'll go watch an episode weekly now on Netflix. I think they're on there now. Dunno why I didn't just think about watching 'em weekly 'til now, lol.
I enjoyed your blog very much and also feel that DS9 doesn't get the credit it deserves! It featured generally strong performances (especially when compared to Marina Sirtis) and tackled more complicated and nebulous themes than TNG (i love the race-relation issues that run throughout). The biggest strength of DS9 when compared to TNG is the writing and with good reason. Take a look at the difference in the writing credits for TNG and DS9. Story cohesion was a direct result of increased oversight and use of repeated writers.
Your criticisms of TNG are all true, but need to be considered in context. TNG was a phenomena that didn't have much competition for the fantasy/sci-fi genres. DS9 had to compete with Babylon 5, Xena, and other major shows. Another strike against DS9 was that Paramount under-promoted it in preparation for the launch of Voyager.
But I still think that TNG was more important because of what it accomplished in turning the Star Trek into both a morality play and also an optimistic vision of the future. After it found its voice in season 3 or so, Star Trek had been re-imagined from the pulpy space opera in which Kirk sleeps with every blue humanoid race at the port-of-call, to a show that featured an android grappling with what it means to be human. It elevated the dialogue of sci-fi in popular media and made the genre a vehicle for discussing important universal issues. It created the space for the shows with which DS9 had to compete.
At any rate, I loved your blog! I'm also an MST3K lover, but you probably could've guessed that as well! Keep it up!
On July 31 2014 10:18 kushm4sta wrote: Just the title of this blog infuriates me greatly. I will read it and respond later, after the rage dies down. For now, 1/5 stars.
The only thing I can bear to say DS9 was better at, was they had the coolest ship (The Defiant) of all of the series. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DS9. But, I couldn't ever rate it above The Next Generation or Voyager (which was not mentioned -- part 2 blog maybe??).
On July 31 2014 12:31 esReveR wrote: The only thing I can bear to say DS9 was better at, was they had the coolest ship (The Defiant) of all of the series. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DS9. But, I couldn't ever rate it above The Next Generation or Voyager (which was not mentioned -- part 2 blog maybe??).
WOHWOH DS9 is definitely better than Voyager. Don't know what you're smoking there. Also, the Defiant was a PoS. How was that cool? It looked like a shuttle or something.
Wow, I just saw that episode. What are the fucking odds?
But in all seriousness, the episode is actually pretty good. And the scene itself is significant when you consider the actual theme of that particular episode. Then again, I tend to be able to watch these kinds of shows without getting the shitty acting, effects, or even unrealistic circumstances to impact my viewing experience. Every television show (and film) sucks if you try to measure it up against reality. In the end, it's the (attempted) portrayal of an idea that makes it worthwhile imo.
Ahh, I remember your previous blog about the Star Trek binge.
I like TNG more overall but I still love Ds9 too. I think TNG had superior main characters (Data, Picard, Geordi, etc. (pretend Troi and doctor polaski didn't exist) but Ds9 by far had the superior secondary and tertiary characters (quark, Garak, Dukat, Grand Negus, etc). I guess that just due to the different approach of the shows. One more of an episodic series where the main people are pivotal and the other a more space opera type prolonged story where tons of characters come into play. I have other qualms with Ds9 but if you haven't seen every episode I'd rather not say.
As for the Ferengi storylines I personally liked them. Sure maybe it made for some dumb episodes, but the Ferengi lore they fleshed out in the show was usually hilarious. Their form of afterlife is the best. "The Ferengi concepts of the afterlife are a mirror of their pursuit of wealth in life. When a Ferengi dies, he is said to meet the Blessed Exchequer, who reviews the financial statements of that Ferengi's entire life. If he earned a profit, he is ushered into Ferengi heaven: the Divine Treasury, where the Celestial Auctioneers allow him to bid on a new life. Ferengi who were not financially successful in life are damned to the Vault of Eternal Destitution."
DS9 desperately needed the influx of interesting characters like Worf, Martok and Weyoun. I feel they really helped the series (and of course Garak being a badass). I don't think it's fair to compare TNG with DS9, the latter had the advantage of the Dominion arc, while TNG had less bottle shows. They both fared very well in their respective settings.
Yes! DS9 was the best, except maybe season 1 (but let's be honest all the series improved dramatically over time). And I wish they would have tuned down the Pah-wraith stuff in the end, that got annoying quickly. I think TNG had the strongest individual episodes, but DS9 actually captured a vaster universe and brought context into the star trek universe.
Also I'm not afraid to admit I cried when it all ended, you build such a strong relationship with all the characters. I really want to watch some DS9 again now...
I didn't really watch it because of timing issues (watched a few episodes here and there), but all my friends that watched it said DS9 is better/best, even though they worshiped TNG.
Well what are the odds, just this week I started picking up watching the entire series (TNG through to Voyager) again! Very much looking forward to DS9 indeed :>
Agree on DS9 being the best overall, but it has to be said that the worst episodes of DS9 are worse than the worst of TNG, refer to the Move Along Home posted earlier ...
Lastly, you didn't touch on Voyager, while it's overall not as good as TNG/DS9 I feel that the absolute best single episodes are in this series, the multipart or feature length episodes in the later Voyager seasons are fantastic, even if I can't stand Harry Kim
I really liked the tension in TNG when it came to the constant standoffs with the other races. Shit gets so tense when there's only just the Enterprise and other ship.
I liked DS9 a lot but then I started watching more TNG. I prefer TNG.
On July 31 2014 19:01 Liquid`TLO wrote: Yes! DS9 was the best, except maybe season 1 (but let's be honest all the series improved dramatically over time). And I wish they would have tuned down the Pah-wraith stuff in the end, that got annoying quickly. I think TNG had the strongest individual episodes, but DS9 actually captured a vaster universe and brought context into the star trek universe.
Also I'm not afraid to admit I cried when it all ended, you build such a strong relationship with all the characters. I really want to watch some DS9 again now...
Hmm, this is quite an interesting debate, as for which is the best series!
I personally prefer DS9 slightly over TNG, but mostly because I feel a strong red-line (so interconnecting progressive stories) makes for a stronger show, where as TNG was for many parts much more episodic. Debating the characters also has many merits, TNG had stronger lead characters Picard/Riker/Data than DS9 Sisko/Kira/Dax, but Quark and Garak are vastly superior side characters to anything TNG had to offer, likewise characters introduced later such as Weyoun made DS9 far more interesting in that aspect.
Both TNG and DS9 have weak starts, but DS9 develops quicker in that regard, and by the time Worf is introduced is off to really good things. TNG however has always stayed in my mind, because the introduction of the Borg was so incredible, they were such a good villain.
This is where I think Voyager can never live up to things, it had weaker characters than either of the other series and it completely ruined the Borg in my estimation, because it was like anyone could trick the Borg anytime now and their actions being so predictable. That being said Voyager had some very good episodes and well worth the watch for anyone who's a fan of the other two series.
Edit: The music for all the star trek series is great, but this theme in TNG just gave you the goosebumps.
TNG is littered with episodes that feel forced, this is specific to race/world/tradition based episodes. Betazed is a perfect example of this. Troi's mother, and in fact a fair few of Troi-centric episodes are endurance trials to see how much of her counseling you can take. While DS9 is not without similar episodes, I have yet to recall an episode I basically had to abandon completely because of my being able to tell nothing significant would happen, and it was all petty, non-developmental drama.
While the Ferengi story lines are the most tedious in my opinion, but Nog, Rom, and Quark are much less interesting in the context of Ferengi society than they are on the station. Even the least interesting character, O'Brian, the bridge from TNG to DS9, has some brilliant episodes, in particular a Twilight Zone-esq episode revolving around his experiencing 20 years of incarceration in a matter of hours (Via Alien technology, the great plot equalizer).The most belabored point in DS9 is the fleshing out of Bajoran society, down the line this becomes well worth it, but going through it you get to feeling like Bajor could die and no one should give a fuck about it because it is so boring and or unreasonable.
Troi's mother can't be avoided, she is the rodden berry after all.
The episode with O'Brian is IMO the best Star Trek episode ever, Colm Meaney at his best.
The most important reason why DS9 is way better than TNG:
Jake Sisko > Wesley Crusher
My hate for Wesley Crusher has reached Sheldon Cooper levels.
TNG is littered with episodes that feel forced, this is specific to race/world/tradition based episodes. Betazed is a perfect example of this. Troi's mother, and in fact a fair few of Troi-centric episodes are endurance trials to see how much of her counseling you can take. While DS9 is not without similar episodes, I have yet to recall an episode I basically had to abandon completely because of my being able to tell nothing significant would happen, and it was all petty, non-developmental drama.
While the Ferengi story lines are the most tedious in my opinion, but Nog, Rom, and Quark are much less interesting in the context of Ferengi society than they are on the station. Even the least interesting character, O'Brian, the bridge from TNG to DS9, has some brilliant episodes, in particular a Twilight Zone-esq episode revolving around his experiencing 20 years of incarceration in a matter of hours (Via Alien technology, the great plot equalizer).The most belabored point in DS9 is the fleshing out of Bajoran society, down the line this becomes well worth it, but going through it you get to feeling like Bajor could die and no one should give a fuck about it because it is so boring and or unreasonable.
Troi's mother can't be avoided, she is the rodden berry after all.
The episode with O'Brian is IMO the best Star Trek episode ever, Colm Meaney at his best.
The most important reason why DS9 is way better than TNG:
Jake Sisko > Wesley Crusher
My hate for Wesley Crusher has reached Sheldon Cooper levels.
I hadn't even considered the Jake Sisko vs. Wesley Crusher debate. That is an interesting bit, while I was looking for some good Trek books, though they aren't considered Canon, what is supposed to happen to Wesley is pretty cool imo.
In one story arc Wesley is supposed to have become a Traveler, which is bad ass.
I agree, I think DS9 and TNG were good in different ways. DS9 had an amazing, overarching story with some deep conspiracies and hidden agenda, while TNG had some great individual episodes. I guess I would compare it to two different genres; they can't necessarily be compared, but both are really good at doing what they do in their respective areas.
Personally I really like the depth of DS9, but TNG is just so iconic and imaginative that I find it hard to say which is "better". I would be happy to say they are roughly the same in terms of quality
On August 01 2014 02:40 Carnac wrote: TNG has its merits, but I much prefer DS9 as well, mostly for the great depth of its story arcs. And also Garak. My favourite character by far.
Dunno why anyone would bring Voyager into this, so much worse than either TNG or DS9....
On one hand it is, but on the other, like others have said, it does have a few really "really" good episodes. And at least personally, it was the only one I actually managed to watch completely on TV new. *I was so pumped for the series finale when I was 15*.
Side characters are very important in DS9 indeed, Garak was of course awesome and Dukat might just be the best villain in all of Star Trek combined (though I liked the Borg Queen as well). Why do people label Quark as a side character though? He was billed as a main character and he appears in almost every episode.
I also want to mention that I am a fan of O'Brien, he's great.
I kind of consider Quark a "secondary" character since he isn't part of Starfleet and much of his storylines and relationships are separate from the main overarching plot lines. He's definitely a main character though so I guess it's just semantics.
Wesley Crusher is definitely one of the most annoying characters in TV history. On the ds9 vs. tng thing: both are great. ds9 has the better story arc, tng has some of the most iconic characters ever. And Marina Sirtis was smoking hot back in the day.
ds9, overall, had more depth, but they kind of messed up with all that pah-wraith bullshit. Still, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the series. The only Star Trek episode that made me cry was the final of tng. That last words by Picard...so epic.
If you watch the earlier episodes, even people on the Enterprise, especially Picard, clearly hated Wesley. Then that pederast The Traveler came and basically said Wes is a space Mozart. From then on everyone had to be nice to him. It's all the Travelers fault.
i liked DS9 a lot, unfortunately the german TV at that time had the really bad habit of mixing old episodes with new ones inn a very random and confusing way, so i never saw the last season i think.
I think TNG is superior to DS9, but I think that DS9 told a better overall story. With TNG, you really don't need to watch any of the episodes in order, every episode for the most part is it's own self-contained story. DS9 on the other hand has more of a season and series arc with the dominion, Cardassian politics, and Bajoran entry into the Federation. One major flaw with DS9 is that out of the first two seasons, which is like 48 episodes, only 10-15 are worth actually watching, the others are a lot of filler and are frankly boring. TNG of course had it's own share of awful episodes, but it finds it's footing and rhythm far quicker than DS9 does. DS9 picks up heavily in the third season and benefits greatly from the addition of Worf in season 4.
Overall, having never seen the original series, I would rate TNG > DS9> VOY = ENT. I actually found Enterprise to be as good as Voyager, with season 1 being kind of shitty and then picking up for season 2, 3, and 4.
I only like Star Trek the original serie (+the movies) Kirk and Spock above all :o I don't like much the other ST series, they're like "the days of my life" or "The Young and the Restless" in space to me.
Finally a trekkie blog haha. I rewatch the entirety of Star Trek probably once a year, if not more often.
I think DS9 is probably better, but it is very close, both series are just so fucking excellent. I agree with TLO on the pah-wraith stuff though, it was a little annoying at the end.
You are right though, season 1 DS9 sucked. If it wasn't for Odo and Quark I may not have hung in there
*edit* So is this classed as a ST thread in general? I really want to rip into how bad the ending of Voyager is (I mean, the series is pretty bad as a whole, but the ending is an especially big "fuck you" to the people that actually watched all 7 seasons hoping it would improve).
On August 01 2014 09:10 KadaverBB wrote: Finally a trekkie blog haha. I rewatch the entirety of Star Trek probably once a year, if not more often.
I think DS9 is probably better, but it is very close, both series are just so fucking excellent. I agree with TLO on the pah-wraith stuff though, it was a little annoying at the end.
Once a year?
I started watching Stargate again last december and i'm 15 seasons in, but damn, the entirety of star trek every year?
On August 01 2014 09:10 KadaverBB wrote: Finally a trekkie blog haha. I rewatch the entirety of Star Trek probably once a year, if not more often.
I think DS9 is probably better, but it is very close, both series are just so fucking excellent. I agree with TLO on the pah-wraith stuff though, it was a little annoying at the end.
Once a year?
I started watching Stargate again last december and i'm 15 seasons in, but damn, the entirety of star trek every year?
Yeah pretty much lol. I always have some Star Trek running on my second monitor. I skip a couple of episodes here and there when I don't feel like watching a particular one, but I watch most of it^^
DS9 was an amazing series for giving the franchise's cuddlebear utopic outlook for the future a dose of reality. DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight" showed this best, and is hands-down one of the best star trek episodes ever made.
I'm a huge Trek fan and can say without any doubt on my part that on average DS9 is the best Trek show ever. TNG seasons 3-7 were very good too but TNG seasons 1-2 were pretty terrible most of the time, and while TNG had many great episodes it did not have (and to be fair did not attempt) many of the long-running stories DS9 ended up with. TNG had three great leads in Picard, Data and Worf but the rest of the cast was underused and frankly their acting abilities were hit-or-miss. DS9 is filled with great characters and are almost all well acted (well Terry Farrell is nothing spectacular but not terrible either).
Only reason some silly people look down on and dismiss DS9 is the whole "omg no Enterprise" factor, which is ridiculous.
Also yes, In the Pale Moonlight is the best Star Trek episode, period.
DS9 is a fucking soap opera. It disgusts me. 1 All that spiritual shit with sisco. Star Trek is about SCIENCE. SCIENCE fiction.
2 The writers wanted to add soap opera elements like romances to TNG but Gene Roddenberry didn't let them. That wasn't his vision and it cheapened what Star Trek was supposed to be. Roddenberry died and the writers shat all over the Star Trek legacy.
TNG hinted that in the future monogamy would be replaced with polygamy. Audiences weren't ready for that. DS9 they wanted to up their ratings so they made the Wharf/Dax, Odo/Kira relationships. I felt like I was watching Dawson's Creek in space.
3 Pah wraiths, shooting lighting from their hands... are you fucking kidding me?
Oh yeah remember the non stop shit with the bajorans.. THEY ARE A METAPHOR FOR THE JEWS I GET IT ALREADY. What a boring race to base your whole around.
Remember the mirror universe that they kept going back to every single season. I hated those.
On August 02 2014 14:42 kushm4sta wrote: DS9 is a fucking soap opera. It disgusts me. 1 All that spiritual shit with sisco. Star Trek is about SCIENCE. SCIENCE fiction.
2 The writers wanted to add soap opera elements like romances to TNG but Gene Roddenberry didn't let them. That wasn't his vision and it cheapened what Star Trek was supposed to be. Roddenberry died and the writers shat all over the Star Trek legacy.
TNG hinted that in the future monogamy would be replaced with polygamy. Audiences weren't ready for that. DS9 they wanted to up their ratings so they made the Wharf/Dax, Odo/Kira relationships. I felt like I was watching Dawson's Creek in space.
3 Pah wraiths, shooting lighting from their hands... are you fucking kidding me?
Oh yeah remember the non stop shit with the bajorans.. THEY ARE A METAPHOR FOR THE JEWS I GET IT ALREADY. What a boring race to base your whole around.
Remember the mirror universe that they kept going back to every single season. I hated those.
RWAR YOU'RE ALL WRONG FROM ENJOYING THIS THING I HATE. RWAR.
The original series was revolutionary, no doubt about that. No TNG, DS9 or Voyager (as well as many other non-ST series that followed) without the original, but looking at for example the writing, acting and cinematography it's not as good imho.
B5 is best anyway. I don't say this to offend trekkies in any way..., seriously - especially seasons 2-4 are without the shadow of a doubt some of the best sci-fi ever made. Should probably be discussed in a different thread though
I really liked the original series and it is by far my favourite. I am a huge William Shatner fan through and through. After ToS I would have to say I really liked Enterprise once it got going; following that I would have to say Voyager and then a tie between TNG and DS9. I've been a Trekkie my whole life and I won't bother getting into why I like said series over others because everyone has their own opinion and gets their own enjoyment from the shows.
Carnac, B5 is still something that I have yet to watch with any continuity. I would recommend the new BSG and if you're looking for an older series, Space Above and Beyond was pretty fantastic as well.
I enjoyed your blog and can understand why you might feel this way but for me TNG is what I grew up on first. That make it rank 1 but I ain't gonna let someone tell me DS9 is not rank 2nd.
I will say this. DS9 did have the awesomenes which were all episodes heavily featuring the Ferengi. If you've not seen the one were they do a deal, for Quark's mother, with a dominion Eggy Pop is missing out! :D
On August 02 2014 08:05 goodkarma wrote: DS9 was an amazing series for giving the franchise's cuddlebear utopic outlook for the future a dose of reality. DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight" showed this best, and is hands-down one of the best star trek episodes ever made.
In the Pale Moonlight is an episode with an inflated reputation, because of the wasted execution of a promising premise. The structure of the episode, with its main action embedded within Sisko's narrative apologia indicates that although this episode is renowned for steering Trek away from Roddenberrian utopianism, it was done in a wavering and half-hearted manner, without sufficient courage to really deconstruct Trek idealism in its broader implications. Sisko's superimposed narrative, and Garak's closing summary, give the episode the dimensions of a moral melodrama which is force-fed to the spectator; despite its reputation, the show had never really managed to subvert the narrative condescension of an Aesop fable.
The show, rather than subverting Roddenberry, merely frustrated by skidding the surface of what might have been broader questions raised by the possibilities presented in the show; the end of Season 5 begs the question whether it was not the Federation, rather than the Dominion, which bore the brunt of blame for the outbreak of war, or that the episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost" demonstrate how the Federation is a military bureaucracy in which individual Starfleet Captains can impose martial law upon a galactic government through a combination of political networking and exploitation of political paranoia. In retrospect, it was also a shame that the Dominion was tagged with a xenophobe ideology, which subsequently became flanderised into the predominant trait of that empire. Such creative decisions were made not because they organically followed the science-fiction of a radically different sort of species, but because the antagonist could not merely be exotic; the bad guy label must be tagged and tarred on their foreheads.
DS9 was not the sanctimonious Roddenberrian drivel that was the first two seasons of TNG, but as the material grows more familiar in the memory, its limitations metastatize in the mind, particularly in those areas in which the show had ordinarily been praised. One of those areas is characterisation, an area in which DS9 was much stronger than TNG, but which nonetheless descended into Flanderisation later in the series. Anyone who watches Star Trek Season 7, and returns to watch Season 1 in issue, will see plainly that what happened throughout the show's seven-year run was not character development, but character displacement. As the show ran on, the characters were displaced by gimmicks. Thus Odo, an enigmatic and truly odd character in the first two seasons was reduced to two motifs by season 7: his puppy-like affection for Kira, and his identity crisis issuing from the ambiguous sense of belonging. Bashir, an insufferable and unpopular character in the initial seasons of the show, was given his own gimmick in "Dr. Bashir, I presume", after which he became another member of the patented league of Spock clones, a character re-branding gimmick which only fell from favour after its ultimate failure in Enterprise. Kira, the fiery rebel, became Federation stooge by mid-show, after which her character had exhausted its possibilities other than as Odo's romantic object and sex appeal.
DS9 provided good entertainment when I came home from school as a child, but even then, the plot holes and fallacious moral logic of the show were evident to me. Over the years, those impressions have not been extenuated by the forgiving inclinations of age, and I cannot today watch a single episode without raising a thousand questions to which no satisfactory answer can be found.
In post script, I have to confess that the show provided good melodrama for a science fiction show. The episode "Heart of Stone" had the typical Trek failings: of using the better part of an hour to demonstrate a very simple precept in the Odo-Kira relationship. However, the touch would have been worthy of the poet, had the demonstration been given better pay-off. As the later seasons had the habit of completely destroying the continuity of earlier seasons, so did the episode "His Way" utterly gutter the character premise of "Heart of Stone", out of a contingent need to fuel cheap rom-com.