I know there are many A+ or even S class players in Korea who don't make jack shit.
What is everyone's opinion on everyone chipping in $1 or $10. If we get 50 people each to chip in $5, we'll have $250.
We could hire an S class player from Korea (preferably one that is not making much money, but is still really good and has lots of time) to increase the size of liquipedia.
Average salary for a korean middle class person is 2000 USD a month. Starting salary is anything from 1000 USD a month and lower. If they are working without college education (which most hardcore korean pub gamers are), they will be making even less. Most S class korean gamers are not making that much either because they aren't old enough, or because they play too much starcraft to focus on career. The point is, there should be some S class players in Korea who wouldn't mind a $250.
For example, JulyZerg was pretty good when he was in high school (that's why he's called JulyZerg. he only signs on during summer which starts in July.) $250 for an A+ high school kid, or for an unemployed or unsponsored S class player seems very do-able. (remember when Mind or some other progamer fainted at a tournament because his team didn't have enough money for good nutrition). If anything, they get an ego trip being able to post something this on TL.net which is a pretty famous site by now.
I'm proposing to get a shit load of A+/S class player quality stuff added to liquipedia. so instead of just build orders, also add side notes, analysis, and what-not.
A TL.net admin can start a paypal account and everyone on TLnet who likes this idea can add $5 to the account. after a month, if the account has more than $200 in it, we'll have some of TL.net's korean members email some korean clans to see if they have or know of any A+/S class players who would like to double the size of liquipedia for a bulk sum of $250.
Poll: Would you donate $5 for A+/S class material on Liquipedia? (Vote): yes (Vote): no. don't have money, but I'll still use it when everyone else is done paying (Vote): no, because I don't care about S class material and analysis
Last edit: 2009-08-18 06:44:27
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MoRe_mInErAls Canada. August 18 2009 06:55. Posts 1210
Honestly I wouldn't want to pay Koreans to work on lliquipedia simply because foreigners tend to be good at strategy and analysis since we don't get to play 24/7 and perfect our micro. But everyone has time to check out a replay and see what was going on, what went wrong and how to fix it. Just look at some of the top foreigners, IdrA, Dinot even Ret all have extremely good macro, timings and strategy, even in Ret's blog he said his skill/micro was horrible when he came back from his 3 year break but was still able to win a lot of games because of his macro and strategy knowledge. Of course bringing a Korean in would defiantly give us some crazy knowledge, but imo it's not that worth it and instead we should just use it to make another tournament of some sort.
But hey, just my 2 cents.
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TheAntZ Bangladesh. August 18 2009 09:43. Posts 6110
I agree with zealing. The idea sounds interesting, mainly because I'd be curious to read an analysis from one of the top 20 progamers, but you really gotta explain more how you wanna do that and what you want to achieve.
In fact, the main problem I see with this is : being the best at the game doesnt mean you're the best at describing what you're doing and how you're doing it.
What question exactly would you ask them that couldn't be answered by the top foreigners? I'm sure there are some things, but what? You see what I mean, if tomorrow we could ask Jeadong what's a good transition for 2 hatch mutas, I'm sure he'll answer something we all already know. Or we could ask him how to drastically improve muta micro, but I'm sure he'll suggest practicing UMS maps.
On the other hand, I'd love to see a progamer commenting one of his own games, or someone else's game, pointing out his errors, what's his game plan, and stuff like that, just like Nony did with his FPVods. I think that would be the best for education purpose. All that would be needed would be to ask them to record an audio of them commentating a game, then someone could translate and someone else could put subtitles on the video, and that's it.
Last edit: 2009-08-18 10:24:58
29 fps United States. August 18 2009 10:52. Posts 5274
and accountability. who's gonna keep each other in check? and who's gonna collect the cash before paying the editor?
i also think that most people here aren't aspiring to be progamers. they just play to have fun, but of course, part of having fun is getting better (so you don't lose all the time). when you start paying for S-class material, it's a sign that you might be crossing the line between playing "for fun" and playing "to be super good".
it'll be interesting to know some progamer secrets, but i doubt they'll let them out so easily anyways.
i think you'll have better luck getting people to pay for progamer gossip, though.
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
dhe95 United States. August 18 2009 11:18. Posts 1211
While $250 isn't chump change, you drastically underestimate the amount of work that doubling the size of liquipedia would entail...
I'm sure you've written long essays/papers for school before. Would you want to do the equivalent of 50 of those for a measly $250? I sure wouldn't. I remember writing kids' essays for $50 a pop. I'm not fond of the idea of doing essays for every kid in the class to get $250.
Even if you overlook the fact that most Koreans don't speak English... the metagame in Korea is different, and the perceived effective methods are much different. You'd be paying someone to do something that would be incredibly hard to understand and apply. A better idea would be to fund one of the top foreigners (Day, InC, IdrA, etc.) to make some quality submissions. Day's audio podcasts are already amazing. Wouldn't it be worth it to give him a little incentive to release more of them quicker?
Last edit: 2009-08-18 11:31:09
TheFoReveRwaR United States. August 18 2009 11:34. Posts 10265
Sorry but this is a really bad idea. I'd list the reasons but everyone's done a good job of it already.
There should be a "No because I feel 250$ could be spent on much more effective things to improve the site".
I mean whats after the money is transfered whats the ensure they would even do a decent job? Hell they could write "LOL THANKS FOR 250 BUCKS SUCKERS, PEACE". They wouldn't do that of course but I'm confident they wouldn't offer their best advice because they'res no reason to.
Last edit: 2009-08-18 11:38:28
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
qrs United States. August 18 2009 11:54. Posts 3620
On August 18 2009 15:55 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: I would only pay $5 for Jaedong to edit Liquipedia, and then he'd also have to mention me in his OSL victory speech
Fortunately, with your name, he could just about do it:
Excerpt from Lee Jaedong's OSL victory words: - You frequently went for the economic build.. ▲ I was confident in my ability to defend. As long as I had MoRe_mInErAls, I was sure that I would win. - You won the OSL in a record time. To what do you ascribe this? ▲ Faster zerglings. Stronger mutas. More_mInErAls. [Note: Although Jaedong appeared to be admitting to hacking during this interview, his words were explained to be describing the outside appearance of his victories.] - You have won the Golden Mouse. If you win one more OSL, your mouse will be made of platinum. What can you possibly do after that? ▲ This question is to do with the organizers of OSL. It does not have to end with platinum. There is always More_mInErAls.
Last edit: 2009-08-18 11:57:41
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
KwarK United States. August 18 2009 12:14. Posts 24073
This is a bad idea and a waste of money. Plus they don't have the english skills to fully articulate their ideas. There is already a lot of high level content on liquipedia and what marks the proscene is the metagame which isn't all that relevant at lower levels and the excellent execution which must be trained, not taught. I wouldn't mind progamers adding to it but I don't believe their contributions are that valuable monetarily. There are better uses of the money.
This is not gonna work on so many levels, practically this is just not feasible. Wouldn't pay for it either because I'd hardly get anything out of it, I'm struggling enough with lower level stuff as it is.
HeaDStrong Scotland. August 18 2009 12:25. Posts 785
wiki pages are always community driven and paying someone to write would seem artificial and again i doubt that someone without any inspiration and interest will produce quality content because of money.
I have little to add to the counter-arguments, and overall, I also wouldn't want this idea to happen. Mainly, it would introduce a seperation between the contributors - paid and free. What would the free ones be working for, then?
The second misconception is that regular users don't have much to add to liquipedia's strategy section. This is wrong in my opinion. You can receive a lot of insight by analyzing replays, VODs, or simply compiling knowledge from the Strategy Forums. All of this doesn't require you to be a great player - I think these resources are not sufficiently explored yet.
Non veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Questions? Suggestions? Woes? Drop me a PM and I'll try to assist.
whatusername Canada. August 18 2009 13:33. Posts 1128