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If one were to look at TLPD right now, they would witness an unprecedented statistic: There are currently four players with an ELO over 2300. Of course these 4 players are the infamous Taek-Bang Lessang.
as of the time of writting, they sit at: Flash 2388 points Bisu 2329 points Jaedong 2326 points Stork 2306 points
Perhaps even more impressive is that the 5th highest ranked player right now, Hydra, is "only" at 2221 points, a whole 85 points away from stork. Clearly these 4 aren't just a step above the competition, but miles ahead of everyone else right now (or at least 85 ELO points ahead).
Now the reason I made a new thread for this instead of just posting this in the very old but still relevant ELO peaks thread is that I realized recently that these 4 have more or less been dominating the scene since 2007 (technically since Bisu defeated Savior in the MSL, nearly four years ago now), with at least 1 of these four at the top for different periods since. In StarCraft time, this is a HUGE amount of time, and these 4 have had an unprecedented reign of dominance on the scene. Has any group of progamers ever come close to not only dominating as hard as these guys, but dominating as long and as consistently? Since the beginning of 2007, there have been 11 OSLs and 11 MSLs and only 4 OSLs and 2 MSLs didnt feature at least one of Taek-Bang Leessang in the finals, not to mention that jaedong, bisu, and flash each won a GOM classic when it was basically a 3rd starleague (and I'll bet you 100 million esport bucks that a member of Taek-Bang Lessang takes will take both starleagues this season as well). And to keep things interesting, CJ winning the Winner's League finals in 2009 was the ONLY time a team that didnt feature a member of Taek-Bang Leessang won a team league.
I remember reading something about 2(?, maybe just 1) earlier generations of "four kings" that ruled the game for a long period of time. I think the original was boxer, reach, yellow, and either GARIMTO or NaDa. The next was I think oov, july, nal_ra, and i dont know. I looked and looked but couldnt find the FE that mentioned it :\. Either way I'm pretty sure that these groups of players weren't nearly as long-lasting or as dominant as the current kings of the game.
What's so amazing to me and IMO worth making a thread about is how these 4 just wont go away. Even after nearly 4 years of dominance, they (collectively) have arguably never been more ahead of the rest of the competition as they are right now. Usually a player rises to the top, stays for a while, and gently fades away. Believe it or not, there was a time when these four were all rookies themselves that came to replace the greats of old. What is almost scary for the state of starcraft is how no one else even looks CLOSE to being ready to replace one of these 4 one day. Even trying to think of a newcomer who might one day turn on fire and win a league is highly uncredible. Baby is good but he is still miles and miles behind flash (and it's not like he's that much younger than flash anyway). Shuttle is no better comparatively than he was 2 years ago. EffOrt retired but was never really going to be able to fill in JD's shoes anyway. There are many others who at one time or another looked like they might one day have a CHANCE of being the next big thing for their race, but to me at least it's never seemed so unlikely or so far off as it does right now.
The implications of their almost assured continued dominance is both exciting and terrifying. Since SC2 came out there have been even fewer rookies coming into the ranks, which means that the "far" future of BW seems very uncertain. Assuming the amount of rookies joining the scene starts to pick back up as SC2's popularity in Korea declines, Taek-Bang Leessang will inevitably start to decline in comparable skill, get old, join ACE, and I guess move on. But the time that it will take for a plethora of new rookies to actually exceed their skill AND have the youth advantage will be huge. Assuming that the current crop of "younger" progamers (such as soulkey, snow, hydra, etc) dont have what it takes to topple Taek-Bang Leessang (which im going to wager they DONT), it could be a long while before Taek-Bang Leessang is eventually overthrown and a new set of kings come to replace them.
Although it's almost scary to think that Taek-Bang Leessang might lead to a decline in BW viewership via constant domination, and that the chances of a new player winning a title seems to decrease every year, I really want a, all Taek-Bang Leessang semifinals in a starleague. Not since the Bacchus 2008 has there been the entire Taek-Bang Leessang in the Ro8 of a starleague. It is such a huge shame that flash and bisu were both outed of the starleagues so early this season, as perhaps this is the best time of all for Taek-Bang Leessang to square off in the same league. Perhaps the greatest thing for Taek-Bang Leessang AND the BW scene at large is for all four members to maintain their momentum going into the next round of starleagues, and finally (provided the brackets work out) give the fans a double Taek-Bang Leessang dominated semifinals.
+ Show Spoiler + Or at least someone should through a Taek-Bang Leessang-only invitational tournament. It's been forever since there's been any sort of special league. also hopefully stork/jaedong wont totally fail in the next 2 weeks and completely make me look like an idiot writing this lol
edit- basically im not too good at writing my thoughts down but let's basically discuss how dominate Taek-Bang Leessang is compared to past players, if they really have been this dominate for this long or are I am giving Taek-Bang too much credit despite sucking for most of 2010, if im buying into the hype too much, if new players will ever replace them at the top, and what their impending continued dominance might mean for the future of the BW scene (aka if they keep being the best for another few years, will that totally kill the BW scene or not?).
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Both Stork and Bisu had long periods when they were far away from the top. Only recently did they resurge. It's really only been Flash and Jaedong consistently at the pinnacle of progaming for the past two years.
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EffOrt was showing a lot of promise just before he retired. It makes me sad that you say he would never have been able to fill Jaedong's shoes.
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6 months ago noone would have expected Stork to be on the verge of winning 2 starleague golds. Things change in BW when players start to pick up momentum/motivation. Snow, Soulkey and Hydra are only into their 2nd full proleague season. There are even some really promising talents emerging from this season's Dream League. You're trying to predict the future 2-3 yrs down the road when even guessing what will happen 3 months from now is difficult.
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EffOrt would be up there now... iam pretty sure.. the last games we saw of him were freaking awesome good.
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Personally i also hope that TaekBangLeeSsang will make a ro4 appearance collectively in the next starleagues, chances are though, they won't : (((
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the only One i would say that would destroy the Taekbangleessang would be the Terrorist
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The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak".
Kim - Kim Min Chul (Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul (Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo (Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho (TurN)
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49035 Posts
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hydra snow (both of these guys show great potential in my mind) and like bogus or turn (i could see them getting dramatically better at some point)
thats what i can see. brave not so much... ^
However Yes it is SO CRAZY that they have proved over and over again that they are really masters at this game.
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Canada5565 Posts
Omg...you just made me think of something. I remember in past interviews (around WCG?) Flash and Jaedong (and maybe Bisu) saying "it would be amazing if we were on the same team etc. but it would never happen."
What if they all decided to join ACE at the same time...!!!
(and obviously it would be even better if Stork joined then as well, but I don't know his relationship with everyone else...Bisu isn't quite friends with JD/Flash either afaik, but Flash/JD "send each other encouraging texts" and whatnot)
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On January 25 2011 17:55 Xxio wrote: Omg...you just made me think of something. I remember in past interviews (around WCG?) Flash and Jaedong (and maybe Bisu) saying "it would be amazing if we were on the same team etc. but it would never happen."
What if they all decided to join ACE at the same time...!!!
(and obviously it would be even better if Stork joined then as well, but I don't know his relationship with everyone else...Bisu isn't quite friends with JD/Flash either afaik, but Flash/JD "send each other encouraging texts" and whatnot) Flash is only 18. While I certainly hope BW is still around for another 5+ years, it will be quite a while before he joins ACE.
Anyway, having them on the same team would be really boring. If a (theoretical) team is made up of nothing but team aces, for one they wouldn't all shine beucase the spotlight will have to be shared (especially with the WL format), and it would also make their games vs lesser players a lot more boring since it would mean the team's losing percentages would be very low.
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On January 25 2011 17:28 Ryo wrote: 6 months ago noone would have expected Stork to be on the verge of winning 2 starleague golds. Things change in BW when players start to pick up momentum/motivation. Snow, Soulkey and Hydra are only into their 2nd full proleague season. There are even some really promising talents emerging from this season's Dream League. You're trying to predict the future 2-3 yrs down the road when even guessing what will happen 3 months from now is difficult.
i beg to differ, im always expecting Stork to make it at least to the Ro4 if not finals in all individual leagues
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On January 25 2011 17:39 doothegee wrote:The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak". Kim - Kim Min Chul ( Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul ( Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo ( Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho ( TurN)
I love these little insights into the korean community.
Why is Turn 'Bak'?
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yeah I'd love it if they pull a Lebron/Wade/Bosh and decided to join ACE at the same time.
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On January 25 2011 18:02 nodule wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 17:39 doothegee wrote:The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak". Kim - Kim Min Chul ( Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul ( Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo ( Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho ( TurN) I love these little insights into the korean community. Why is Turn 'Bak'?
박 = Park. though its spelling is technically Pak/Bak. Just like Lee is spelled 이 = Ee.
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NO. Let me fix that for you... There
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On January 25 2011 17:55 Xxio wrote: Omg...you just made me think of something. I remember in past interviews (around WCG?) Flash and Jaedong (and maybe Bisu) saying "it would be amazing if we were on the same team etc. but it would never happen."
What if they all decided to join ACE at the same time...!!!
(and obviously it would be even better if Stork joined then as well, but I don't know his relationship with everyone else...Bisu isn't quite friends with JD/Flash either afaik, but Flash/JD "send each other encouraging texts" and whatnot) I'm pretty sure what they say would be something like it would be pretty boring if Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, and Stork were all on the same team since it would mean that it is practically impossible for that team to loose and would greatly lower the quality of the game.
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On January 25 2011 17:39 doothegee wrote:The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak". Kim - Kim Min Chul ( Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul ( Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo ( Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho ( TurN) I haven't seen enough of Turn to make a judgment but By.Sun > Brave. However none of them compare to Hydra atm. I think Hydra is ready to win a starleague this season, if not next season.
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On January 25 2011 17:39 doothegee wrote:The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak". Kim - Kim Min Chul ( Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul ( Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo ( Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho ( TurN)
Snow and Soulkey have done fairly well in individual leagues, TurN's done well in PL, but what's with Brave?
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Didn't Brave do pretty well R1 of PL this season? I think that was when this was coined.
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On January 25 2011 18:19 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 17:39 doothegee wrote:The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak". Kim - Kim Min Chul ( Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul ( Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo ( Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho ( TurN) Snow and Soulkey have done fairly well in individual leagues, TurN's done well in PL, but what's with Brave? None of the new generation have too many accomplishments to be worth hyping them as being the next TBLS. Until TBLS retire or drop out of their prime I don't see new contenders taking titles (at least not more than 1).
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10387 Posts
Snow vs Hydra MSL Finals, calling it right here
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On January 25 2011 18:44 ArvickHero wrote: Snow vs Hydra MSL Finals, calling it right here
that would be epic hite battle.
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On January 25 2011 17:55 Xxio wrote: Omg...you just made me think of something. I remember in past interviews (around WCG?) Flash and Jaedong (and maybe Bisu) saying "it would be amazing if we were on the same team etc. but it would never happen."
What if they all decided to join ACE at the same time...!!!
(and obviously it would be even better if Stork joined then as well, but I don't know his relationship with everyone else...Bisu isn't quite friends with JD/Flash either afaik, but Flash/JD "send each other encouraging texts" and whatnot) I remember at the height of TaekBang era they had an interview together and apparently Bisu/Stork actually talk and are pretty friendly too.
God I can't wait for Fantasy to get his shit knocked around.
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As long as TBLS keep up their determination, I can see them keeping the top four spots. I don't get the feeling from interviews that this generation of rookies have the kind of killer confidence and drive that Flash and JD had. But I think we'll still see a lot of turnover in the mid-rank A-teamers which will keep it fresh. I can see a couple of these rookies becoming an entertaining player like Leta or Zero.
On January 25 2011 17:55 Xxio wrote: Omg...you just made me think of something. I remember in past interviews (around WCG?) Flash and Jaedong (and maybe Bisu) saying "it would be amazing if we were on the same team etc. but it would never happen."
What if they all decided to join ACE at the same time...!!!
(and obviously it would be even better if Stork joined then as well, but I don't know his relationship with everyone else...Bisu isn't quite friends with JD/Flash either afaik, but Flash/JD "send each other encouraging texts" and whatnot)
With a lineup like that, they'd never need *sunglasses* to play an ace match.
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Only if there could be a 2v2 Flash/Bisu vs Jaedong/Stork or a 4 player ffa with them in the next allstars.......
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On January 25 2011 17:27 Scorch wrote: Both Stork and Bisu had long periods when they were far away from the top. Only recently did they resurge. It's really only been Flash and Jaedong consistently at the pinnacle of progaming for the past two years.
It's literally impossible for protoss to consistently dominate at the progaming level.
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9069 Posts
yea, they give decent maps for toss to play on, stork and bisu win some stuff and the very next season map makers go like "naah we were just kidding, introducing Tears Of The Moon 2.0 SE trololololol"
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
I don't know why you think having the same players dominate for some time would kill the scene. There are dominant players in every game/sport. Look at Federer in tennis or Kasparov in chess. If anything, those guys made the game more exciting by guaranteeing great games.
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I think its kind of unfair to give Taekbangleessang this much credit because all of these players (except Jaedong) in my opinion have been very subpar at least once in the four years. Kind of like how the great players back then would take turns having dominance. Remember when Flash would just not build enough turrets and lose to 2hatch muta constantly? Remember when Bisu slumped HARD last year in the proleague, and had to take a break? Remember when Stork couldn't win a PvZ to save his life? Jaedong, idk, the only thing I can hold against him is losing to Flash in three consecutive starleagues. But I also remember when Jaedong used to dominate Flash before Flash's amazing run. I think Jaedong imo has been the only player that really hasn't lost such a beat in his entire career. But otherwise, the rest of Taekbanleessang have all had their turns sucking at one point
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On January 25 2011 20:52 Tazza wrote: I think its kind of unfair to give Taekbangleessang this much credit because all of these players (except Jaedong) in my opinion have been very subpar at least once in the four years. Kind of like how the great players back then would take turns having dominance. Remember when Flash would just not build enough turrets and lose to 2hatch muta constantly? Remember when Bisu slumped HARD last year in the proleague, and had to take a break? Remember when Stork couldn't win a PvZ to save his life? Jaedong, idk, the only thing I can hold against him is losing to Flash in three consecutive starleagues. But I also remember when Jaedong used to dominate Flash before Flash's amazing run. I think Jaedong imo has been the only player that really hasn't lost such a beat in his entire career. But otherwise, the rest of Taekbanleessang have all had their turns sucking at one point Yet despite this, I feel that JD may be the first of them to go(or maybe Stork). He said that he can't promise 5 more years of BW, which may mean that he's having troubles playing so much. That could be just because he's slumping, but JD is mostly known for his mechanical play, which fades with age. Of course, the days of TBLS will not be forever, because they will all have to go eventually. But will they be surpassed before they must go? We'll just have to wait and see.
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On January 25 2011 17:39 doothegee wrote:The next foursome that Korean netizens are trying to hype is "김장임박", or "Kim-Jang-Im-Bak". Kim - Kim Min Chul ( Neo.G_Soulkey) Jang - Jang yoOn Chul ( Snow) IM - IM Tae Gyoo ( Brave) Bak - Park Dae Ho ( TurN)
The list is just wrong ! Where's Jaehoon and Lomo ?.lol
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It is scary how good these four have been, but I don't think it is that special. Look at the top four of other sports. How many tennis finals have not had federor, nadal, roddick, or schoderling (I don't know who the third and fourth best tennis players are, but you get the point)? How many superbowls over the past few years have not had the Patriots, Colts, or Steelers.? How many NBA finals without Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, or Heat? Once you start taking the top four of a sport, you start to accumulate so much of the success that it eclipses everyone else.
you were right about the "4 kings" being BoxeR YellOw NaDa Reach. I think the second group of people you are refering to are the "neo kings" but that was a title only for protosses (Nal_rA Kingdom Anytime (and Reach again maybe, I can't remember).
If Im picking 4 rookies to become the dominnt force over esports, I'm going with Ty, Snow, Neo.G_Soulkey, and Paralyze+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 25 2011 21:05 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 20:52 Tazza wrote: I think its kind of unfair to give Taekbangleessang this much credit because all of these players (except Jaedong) in my opinion have been very subpar at least once in the four years. Kind of like how the great players back then would take turns having dominance. Remember when Flash would just not build enough turrets and lose to 2hatch muta constantly? Remember when Bisu slumped HARD last year in the proleague, and had to take a break? Remember when Stork couldn't win a PvZ to save his life? Jaedong, idk, the only thing I can hold against him is losing to Flash in three consecutive starleagues. But I also remember when Jaedong used to dominate Flash before Flash's amazing run. I think Jaedong imo has been the only player that really hasn't lost such a beat in his entire career. But otherwise, the rest of Taekbanleessang have all had their turns sucking at one point Yet despite this, I feel that JD may be the first of them to go(or maybe Stork). He said that he can't promise 5 more years of BW, which may mean that he's having troubles playing so much. That could be just because he's slumping... What are you talking about?
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On January 25 2011 22:07 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 21:05 Lightwip wrote:On January 25 2011 20:52 Tazza wrote: I think its kind of unfair to give Taekbangleessang this much credit because all of these players (except Jaedong) in my opinion have been very subpar at least once in the four years. Kind of like how the great players back then would take turns having dominance. Remember when Flash would just not build enough turrets and lose to 2hatch muta constantly? Remember when Bisu slumped HARD last year in the proleague, and had to take a break? Remember when Stork couldn't win a PvZ to save his life? Jaedong, idk, the only thing I can hold against him is losing to Flash in three consecutive starleagues. But I also remember when Jaedong used to dominate Flash before Flash's amazing run. I think Jaedong imo has been the only player that really hasn't lost such a beat in his entire career. But otherwise, the rest of Taekbanleessang have all had their turns sucking at one point Yet despite this, I feel that JD may be the first of them to go(or maybe Stork). He said that he can't promise 5 more years of BW, which may mean that he's having troubles playing so much. That could be just because he's slumping... What are you talking about?
He's only 30-10 (75%) in his last 40 games yo, that's pretty shitty compared to 31-9 for Bisu, and 32-8 for Flash and Stork.
Joking aside I know what he's getting at though, Jaedong has had some trouble against the top level competition, and has played a bunch of games that where a lot sloppier/closer than they should have been, even when he won. But I think the talk of his slump is greatly exaggerated.
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On January 25 2011 21:05 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 20:52 Tazza wrote: I think its kind of unfair to give Taekbangleessang this much credit because all of these players (except Jaedong) in my opinion have been very subpar at least once in the four years. Kind of like how the great players back then would take turns having dominance. Remember when Flash would just not build enough turrets and lose to 2hatch muta constantly? Remember when Bisu slumped HARD last year in the proleague, and had to take a break? Remember when Stork couldn't win a PvZ to save his life? Jaedong, idk, the only thing I can hold against him is losing to Flash in three consecutive starleagues. But I also remember when Jaedong used to dominate Flash before Flash's amazing run. I think Jaedong imo has been the only player that really hasn't lost such a beat in his entire career. But otherwise, the rest of Taekbanleessang have all had their turns sucking at one point Yet despite this, I feel that JD may be the first of them to go(or maybe Stork). He said that he can't promise 5 more years of BW, which may mean that he's having troubles playing so much. That could be just because he's slumping, but JD is mostly known for his mechanical play, which fades with age. Of course, the days of TBLS will not be forever, because they will all have to go eventually. But will they be surpassed before they must go? We'll just have to wait and see. no one can promise 5 years... they want... or they hope but they cant promise it
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49035 Posts
well I don't know about LeeSsang but I can say that TaekBang is on the rise again.
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baubo said:It's literally impossible for protoss to consistently dominate at the progaming level.
can you alaberate.I'm not meaning to disagree or start and arguement I just can't think of any reason why this should be the case.
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On January 25 2011 23:00 Greg_J wrote:baubo said: Show nested quote +It's literally impossible for protoss to consistently dominate at the progaming level. can you alaberate.I'm not meaning to disagree or start and arguement I just can't think of any reason why this should be the case.
I think that 10 years of progaming in Korea have proved this.
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On January 25 2011 23:01 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:00 Greg_J wrote:baubo said: It's literally impossible for protoss to consistently dominate at the progaming level. can you alaberate.I'm not meaning to disagree or start and arguement I just can't think of any reason why this should be the case. I think that 10 years of progaming in Korea have proved this. Well we had the 6 dragons age, for what it's worth. That might be the only time.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Dunno bout you, but Effort was damn good when he quit.
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On January 25 2011 23:04 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:01 mdb wrote:On January 25 2011 23:00 Greg_J wrote:baubo said: It's literally impossible for protoss to consistently dominate at the progaming level. can you alaberate.I'm not meaning to disagree or start and arguement I just can't think of any reason why this should be the case. I think that 10 years of progaming in Korea have proved this. Well we had the 6 dragons age, for what it's worth. That might be the only time.
I want to reiterate that I said consistently dominate, not whether or not any one player, or the race in general, have peaked.
And the 6 dragons dominated for about 6 months in 10 years. How long have the terrans or the zergs dominated?
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On January 25 2011 23:10 Roffles wrote: Dunno bout you, but Effort was damn good when he quit. I think he'd be a legitimate contender now against JD if he didn't quit.
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On January 25 2011 23:00 Greg_J wrote:baubo said: Show nested quote +It's literally impossible for protoss to consistently dominate at the progaming level. can you alaberate.I'm not meaning to disagree or start and arguement I just can't think of any reason why this should be the case.
Protoss is map-dependent. Maps change and Protoss fails.
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Russian Federation327 Posts
Jaedong has been playing subpar recently JD is fine. Why do ppl loose their trust to players so fast?
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On January 25 2011 23:38 Yodo wrote:JD is fine. Why do ppl loose their trust to players so fast? Cuz 1 week ago Violet(who??), Bisu and Stork pwned JD so hard.
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On January 25 2011 23:10 Roffles wrote: Dunno bout you, but Effort was damn good when he quit.
agreed. a tragedy he quit. =(
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Like all zergs before him, Jaedong will also eventually fade away as his mechanics deteriorate.
That being said, he still has some time left as the zerg overmind before Neo.G_BONJWA surpasses him.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 25 2011 23:23 dcberkeley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:10 Roffles wrote: Dunno bout you, but Effort was damn good when he quit. I think he'd be a legitimate contender now against JD if he didn't quit. Oh no doubt. The guy was wicked good in all three matchups, and could hang with the big guns (Stork, Bisu, Flash, JD) no problem at all. The guy knew how to win games, and definitely had the skills and mindset to make it big.
Plus, his ZvP was sick. The guy had it all. Late game hive management, really good mutalisk harass, and as witnessed vs Flash in the OSL Finals, he's not afraid to mess with you with early zergling attacks. The guy was just really good at the game. It's a shame he quit.
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It's funny, around the time I lost track of bw last year bisu was in such a slump people were already counting him out for good. Now that I start watching again exactly one year later the guy is peaking. I wonder what happened to him there for a while, anyway glad he's doing well now.
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I'm just waiting for a new S class player. The last one was Flash, so it's been a few years we didn't see someone at the level of those 4.
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Please excuse the ignorance, but I have always wondered how on earth Taek-Bang Leessang is constructed. Obviously Taek is Bisu, Bang I think is Stork, but isn't it "Byeong" in his name? Lee is Jaedong or Flash or a combination and I have no friggin clue where the ssang comes from. Can anyone be of help?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 25 2011 23:38 Yodo wrote:JD is fine. Why do ppl loose their trust to players so fast?
Like I said, he is not playing like he used to(e.g dominating his opponents in a brutal manner). That does not mean that he is bad, hell he is still the nr 1 zerg, its just that compared to how he used to play it is not as good.
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On January 26 2011 00:08 Suc wrote: Please excuse the ignorance, but I have always wondered how on earth Taek-Bang Leessang is constructed. Obviously Taek is Bisu, Bang I think is Stork, but isn't it "Byeong" in his name? Lee is Jaedong or Flash or a combination and I have no friggin clue where the ssang comes from. Can anyone be of help? Leessang = Two Lee's
I forgot how Bang came about for Stork
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On January 26 2011 00:07 Arkqn wrote: I'm just waiting for a new S class player. The last one was Flash, so it's been a few years we didn't see someone at the level of those 4. Fanta and EffOrt was close. Fanta even was TOP-1 Kespa terran
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On January 26 2011 00:02 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:23 dcberkeley wrote:On January 25 2011 23:10 Roffles wrote: Dunno bout you, but Effort was damn good when he quit. I think he'd be a legitimate contender now against JD if he didn't quit. Oh no doubt. The guy was wicked good in all three matchups, and could hang with the big guns (Stork, Bisu, Flash, JD) no problem at all. The guy knew how to win games, and definitely had the skills and mindset to make it big. Plus, his ZvP was sick. The guy had it all. Late game hive management, really good mutalisk harass, and as witnessed vs Flash in the OSL Finals, he's not afraid to mess with you with early zergling attacks. The guy was just really good at the game. It's a shame he quit. I don't think I will ever get over the fact that Effort quit.
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On January 26 2011 00:08 Suc wrote: Please excuse the ignorance, but I have always wondered how on earth Taek-Bang Leessang is constructed. Obviously Taek is Bisu, Bang I think is Stork, but isn't it "Byeong" in his name? Lee is Jaedong or Flash or a combination and I have no friggin clue where the ssang comes from. Can anyone be of help? LeeSsang means 2. Bang is a nickname for stork.
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I remember the period of time maybe 6 months ago or so where Flash was at like 2450 points, Jaedong was at 2390~ish and Bisu and Stork were at hydra level or lower. To the point where Flash would gain like 3-4 points per win except against Jaedong and lose 25 per loss.
Like the first reply said, Bisu only recently came back to form, but I'd still take Jaedong and Flash vs Bisu any day of the week. Stork has consistently been in that 4th place spot, when Bisu wasn't at 3rd it was Effort or Fantasy.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 26 2011 00:33 TheHunksta wrote: I remember the period of time maybe 6 months ago or so where Flash was at like 2450 points, Jaedong was at 2390~ish and Bisu and Stork were at hydra level or lower. To the point where Flash would gain like 3-4 points per win except against Jaedong and lose 25 per loss.
Like the first reply said, Bisu only recently came back to form, but I'd still take Jaedong and Flash vs Bisu any day of the week. Stork has consistently been in that 4th place spot, when Bisu wasn't at 3rd it was Effort or Fantasy. I'd take Flash over Bisu any day of the week. As for Bisu vs Jaedong, that's a tossup considering Bisu's always been pretty good against JD, as has Stork.
If you pit any of the 4 against each other, it'd be a tossup for every matchup except for Bisu vs Flash, where I'd take Flash 100 times outta 100 simply cause Bisu's PvT vs higher echleon players is pretty bad.
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On January 26 2011 00:47 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 00:33 TheHunksta wrote: I remember the period of time maybe 6 months ago or so where Flash was at like 2450 points, Jaedong was at 2390~ish and Bisu and Stork were at hydra level or lower. To the point where Flash would gain like 3-4 points per win except against Jaedong and lose 25 per loss.
Like the first reply said, Bisu only recently came back to form, but I'd still take Jaedong and Flash vs Bisu any day of the week. Stork has consistently been in that 4th place spot, when Bisu wasn't at 3rd it was Effort or Fantasy. I'd take Flash over Bisu any day of the week. As for Bisu vs Jaedong, that's a tossup considering Bisu's always been pretty good against JD, as has Stork. If you pit any of the 4 against each other, it'd be a tossup for every matchup except for Bisu vs Flash, where I'd take Flash 100 times outta 100 simply cause Bisu's PvT vs higher echleon players is pretty bad. Funny that JD have negative stats and vs Bisu and vs Stork and vs Flash
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On January 26 2011 01:11 Exchange wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 00:47 Roffles wrote:On January 26 2011 00:33 TheHunksta wrote: I remember the period of time maybe 6 months ago or so where Flash was at like 2450 points, Jaedong was at 2390~ish and Bisu and Stork were at hydra level or lower. To the point where Flash would gain like 3-4 points per win except against Jaedong and lose 25 per loss.
Like the first reply said, Bisu only recently came back to form, but I'd still take Jaedong and Flash vs Bisu any day of the week. Stork has consistently been in that 4th place spot, when Bisu wasn't at 3rd it was Effort or Fantasy. I'd take Flash over Bisu any day of the week. As for Bisu vs Jaedong, that's a tossup considering Bisu's always been pretty good against JD, as has Stork. If you pit any of the 4 against each other, it'd be a tossup for every matchup except for Bisu vs Flash, where I'd take Flash 100 times outta 100 simply cause Bisu's PvT vs higher echleon players is pretty bad. Funny that JD have negative stats and vs Bisu and vs Stork and vs Flash jd is zerg, zerg always fight an uphill battle terran just have to turtle and protoss is 1a2a3a into gg + Show Spoiler +
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Funny how Stork has a winning record vs Flash and vs Bisu and vs Jaedong.
Best of the best!
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
whooo nice read haha Taek Bang LeeSsang are really just crazy untouchable right now~
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If you want S class zerg player, he has to be able to challenge Jaedong's ZvZ, which, while being shaky from time to time is still the best on the scene bar none. Other races aren't usually burdened by their mirrors so much. Last zerg that had the luxury of being a toss-up in ZvZ bo5 vs JD was Effort. Calm had his shot, but he still hides in his shell whenever an S class player looks in his direction. Actually it's hilarious how most A players are just punching bags for the top in the solo leagues, look at Free, Kal, Hiya, Movie, Calm. They can get to ro16-ro4, sometimes even to the finals, but more often than not, they run into the squad of death and just...roll over and die. I think the best example is Kal, how many times did he run into Jaedong ? It came to the point where it's almost a joke.
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Russian Federation327 Posts
Besides ZvZ, JD has incredibly strong ZvT (maybe due to all this JvF finals). His few looses in WL are just reflection of ZvP crisis.
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On January 26 2011 00:08 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:38 Yodo wrote:Jaedong has been playing subpar recently JD is fine. Why do ppl loose their trust to players so fast? Like I said, he is not playing like he used to(e.g dominating his opponents in a brutal manner). That does not mean that he is bad, hell he is still the nr 1 zerg, its just that compared to how he used to play it is not as good.
Jaedong always goes on these mini-slumps, and then makes another final. The last time Jaedong did not make a final was when Stork won his over two years ago. He has made at least one final in 8 of 9 seasons, and has a good shot of making one this season two.
People thought Bisu would never recover to his 08 form, or that Stork would never become his former self. The beauty of Taek-Bang-LeeSang is that all four of them have had a NaDa-like consistency.
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On January 26 2011 01:11 Exchange wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 00:47 Roffles wrote:On January 26 2011 00:33 TheHunksta wrote: I remember the period of time maybe 6 months ago or so where Flash was at like 2450 points, Jaedong was at 2390~ish and Bisu and Stork were at hydra level or lower. To the point where Flash would gain like 3-4 points per win except against Jaedong and lose 25 per loss.
Like the first reply said, Bisu only recently came back to form, but I'd still take Jaedong and Flash vs Bisu any day of the week. Stork has consistently been in that 4th place spot, when Bisu wasn't at 3rd it was Effort or Fantasy. I'd take Flash over Bisu any day of the week. As for Bisu vs Jaedong, that's a tossup considering Bisu's always been pretty good against JD, as has Stork. If you pit any of the 4 against each other, it'd be a tossup for every matchup except for Bisu vs Flash, where I'd take Flash 100 times outta 100 simply cause Bisu's PvT vs higher echleon players is pretty bad. Funny that JD have negative stats and vs Bisu and vs Stork and vs Flash Yet, Jaedong has 3 Bo5 wins over Flash, and Bisu/Stork have never beaten JD in a Bo5. He generally tends to lose to S-class players in proleague. Against SKT, he's at a significant disadvantage since he has to prepare a lot for all matchups whereas Bisu's only real threat against Oz is JD.
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Dont worry. Hydra will soon join the 4 ^_^
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James Lebron is wardsback.
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i don't regret that bisu and flash were out of the starleagues... they're performing really well in SWL, their performances in SWL might not be that great if they're still in the starleagues. and good thing you make a separate thread for this. i really love BW now, there's no jd vs flash in starleagues and we can see the come back of the gods of auir. stork is dominating osl (although i'm cheering for fanta so he could have his gold), jd and stork in msl, and flash bisu on SWLs. i can't wait for the next PR, if their performances continue... i'm sure they're going to be the top 4 in the next PR.
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On January 25 2011 17:55 Xxio wrote: Omg...you just made me think of something. I remember in past interviews (around WCG?) Flash and Jaedong (and maybe Bisu) saying "it would be amazing if we were on the same team etc. but it would never happen."
What if they all decided to join ACE at the same time...!!!
(and obviously it would be even better if Stork joined then as well, but I don't know his relationship with everyone else...Bisu isn't quite friends with JD/Flash either afaik, but Flash/JD "send each other encouraging texts" and whatnot) That would be DISGUSTING. You'd see nothing but ACE badges in the LR threads, since everyone would jump ship to Airforce ACE.
Also, lol at the Protoss solidarity. Bisu and Stork, lone wolfs
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On January 26 2011 00:00 Pvvned wrote:Like all zergs before him, Jaedong will also eventually fade away as his mechanics deteriorate. That being said, he still has some time left as the zerg overmind before Neo.G_BONJWA surpasses him. Dunno about this. YellOw still pulled a solid 50% winrate during ACE time, when he was like 28 years old.. And this is all considering that he is an old school player with supposedly a somewhat weaker mechanical base than the newer era players.
Also, Bogus is only 17 and already kickin a very solid 60% winrate in all matchups, and showing incredibly high form in recent few weeks
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On January 26 2011 01:59 Kenpachi wrote: Dont worry. Hydra will soon join the 4 ^_^
Then wouldn't it be the 5? :-P
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On January 26 2011 00:00 Pvvned wrote:Like all zergs before him, Jaedong will also eventually fade away as his mechanics deteriorate. I wouldn't be surprised if Yellow have higher apm today than during his "prime", and I'm pretty sure he's a better player now than back then, maybe not creatively, but definately in terms of speed, efficiency and mistake ratio, which is more important than creativity today. The old top players didn't start sucking because of loss of talent. SC in 2003 was a whole other game than it is today and they all just failed to adapt, or didn't have enough talent to be a top player in today's BW. And I obviously don't mean Yellow isn't talented, but he might not be talented at macrowhoring, which is a requirement today. Comparing Yellow with Jaedong is like comparing Paul McCartney with Yngwie Malmsteen.
As for the future, I think Hydra and Bogus are kind of obvious, but I also have a lot of hopes on Modesty.
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On January 26 2011 04:00 xarthaz wrote:Also, Bogus is only 17 and already kickin a very solid 60% winrate in all matchups, and showing incredibly high form in recent few weeks
Looking at some of the winning percentages of some relatively newer players like Bogus (58.75%) or Stats (57.02%) or Hydra (56.36%) who are doing well (well, better than 55%, anyway) got me interested in seeing where TBLS were at the same point in their careers. So, through 70 games (where Bogus is), Flash was at 62.86%, Jaedong was at 60%, Bisu was at 60%, and Stork was at 57.14%. Through 121 games (where Stats is), Flash was at 67.77%, Jaedong was at 62.81%, Bisu was at 62.81%, and Stork was at 53.33%.
Stork seemed to be hitting a bit of a rough patch at that point, in February / March of 2007. By the end of September, he was back over 60%, and he's pretty much stayed in the 60 - 62% range since then.
It'll be interesting to see if these newer players will be able to maintain their pace over the long haul, the way those four have. None of the newer players are really giving me that sense of je ne sais quois quite yet, though.
It's actually another way that the four of them are dominant; so far as I can tell, they are top or near the top in winning percentage in their respective match-ups, at least for people who've won over 100 total games and over ~30 games in a given match-up.
Overall: 1. Flash 367 - 143 (71.96%) 2. Jaedong 406 - 185 (68.70%) 3. Bisu 312 - 170 (64.73%) 4. Stork 342 - 216 (61.29%)
vT 1. Flash 132 - 47 (73.74%) 2. Stork 134 - 63 (68.02%) 3. sKyHigh 46 - 22 (67.65%) 4. BeSt 60 - 32 (65.22%) 5. Leta 65 - 39 (62.50%) 6. Jaedong 149 - 90 (62.34%) 7. Fantasy 58 - 37 (61.05%) 8. YellOw[ArnC] 70 - 46 (60.34%) 9. Bisu 103 - 68 (60.23%)
vZ 1. Jaedong 143 - 44 (76.47%) 2. Flash 122 - 51 (70.52%) 3. Bisu 116 - 51 (69.46%) (Stork is at 56.61%)
vP 1. Flash 113 - 45 (71.52%) 2. EffOrt 41 - 18 (69.49%) 3. Jaedong 114 - 51 (69.09%) 4. July 93 - 45 (67.39%) 5. H.O.T-Forever 38 - 19 (66.67%) 6. sAviOr 70 - 37 (65.42%) 7. ChoJJa 58 - 32 (64.44%) 8. Bisu 90 - 51 (63.83%) (Stork is at 58.72%)
In TvT, TvZ, and TvP, Flash is first in all match-ups. In ZvT and ZvZ, Jaedong is far and away first place, and he's pretty close to EffOrt (he was probably above, up until this recent PvP mini-slump) in ZvP. Bisu is third in PvT, first by a mile in PvZ, and first in PvP. Stork is first in PvT, and more than respectable in the other match-ups.
Granted, doing it like this doeshurt players who played long past their prime, like Yellow (56% / 55% / 57% / 58%), but it is impressive nonetheless, seeing just how far ahead they are, especially compared to their contemporaries.
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On January 26 2011 04:41 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 00:00 Pvvned wrote:Like all zergs before him, Jaedong will also eventually fade away as his mechanics deteriorate. I wouldn't be surprised if Yellow have higher apm today than during his "prime", and I'm pretty sure he's a better player now than back then, maybe not creatively, but definately in terms of speed, efficiency and mistake ratio, which is more important than creativity today. The old top players didn't start sucking because of loss of talent. SC in 2003 was a whole other game than it is today and they all just failed to adapt, or didn't have enough talent to be a top player in today's BW. And I obviously don't mean Yellow isn't talented, but he might not be talented at macrowhoring, which is a requirement today. Comparing Yellow with Jaedong is like comparing Paul McCartney with Yngwie Malmsteen. As for the future, I think Hydra and Bogus are kind of obvious, but I also have a lot of hopes on Modesty.
Is this why people fade away? I was always wondering that. It seems strange that even in esports where your physical condition is less important(though obviously you don't want arthritis or anything), older players would be seen as less able to win. Many older players have extremely high APM, so is it just because they got used to Starcraft being one game and it just turned into another?
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United States11390 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:41 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 00:00 Pvvned wrote:Like all zergs before him, Jaedong will also eventually fade away as his mechanics deteriorate. I wouldn't be surprised if Yellow have higher apm today than during his "prime", and I'm pretty sure he's a better player now than back then, maybe not creatively, but definately in terms of speed, efficiency and mistake ratio, which is more important than creativity today. The old top players didn't start sucking because of loss of talent. SC in 2003 was a whole other game than it is today and they all just failed to adapt, or didn't have enough talent to be a top player in today's BW. And I obviously don't mean Yellow isn't talented, but he might not be talented at macrowhoring, which is a requirement today. Comparing Yellow with Jaedong is like comparing Paul McCartney with Yngwie Malmsteen. As for the future, I think Hydra and Bogus are kind of obvious, but I also have a lot of hopes on Modesty. Yellow's actually responded about this before.
On January 28 2008 09:53 FConnectionUK wrote: Segments of TheMarine's Stimpack Interview Translation I thought was interesting Yell0w: When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... That really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?
TheMarine: I think it's both; he calculates as much as he can, but he relies on his sense as well. In Starcraft, having a good sense is the best
Yell0w: To be honest, I don't watch any other progamers play. Not at all. But recently, I watched the game between Flash and Jaedong... And I saw how Jaedong played. Holy cow! (giggles)
TheMarine: Yes, I know. I thought to myself, you can't get ANY better than THAT!
Yell0w: Goodness... H e i s c r a z y!
TheMarine: Watching him play, I tell that to myself everyday!
Yell0w: In any given circumstance, he reads them all. He's not just good at playing the game... He knows how to win the game. What I mean by that is, he has a way to win even in the most desperate situation. He's not just GREAT at game (like the rest of the progamers), he KNOWS how to WIN the game. From the start to finish, everything he does is to WIN the game, heck, I don't even know how to describe this! Watching him play, upsets me. Even in my PRIME time, was I THAT good? Casting doubt to myself. Even with Jaedong's skill, win is not guaranteed, then how about me? Depressing... Perhaps this is the reason my passion to win collapsed...(nervous laugh)
TheMarine: It's amazing that zerg is able to fight so well against Terran at SUCH high level
Yell0w: Flash was up against Jaedong several times recently
TheMarine: 3 series!
Yell0w: When I see Flash practice in our practice house, it is like a new experience. This kid is crazy. Crazyyyyy! Everyone admits his spectacular skill.
TheMarine: In practice house, it seems like Flash would NEVER lose to ANYONE
Yell0w: I kept telling him that he already won. There's no way you will lose with the skill you have. And he responded in a cute fashion, "Fine then, I'll beat Jaedong easily and advance, ok?" I told him "I have complete faith in you! Go! Go win your games!" (Thumbs up) He later came back that day... "Hyung... Sorry..."
Yell0w + TheMarine: LoL
Yell0w: So I watched the game. Yes, Flash made mistakes he never makes, but still! He played extremely well! EVEN THEN, Jaedong's play stands out. Mutalisks cutting off here and there nonstop. Defiler coming out at the perfect timing, dark swarn here and there. I told myself... he is a MACHINE. He does EVERYTHING at once. He doesn't lack anything at all.
------------------------------
Yell0w: IF old progamer at his PRIME come to play right now, he would fail. The game level has enhanced so much since then.
Yell0w: At my prime time, I thought I was THE best. There can't be any more improvement from this point on. Just look at my APM. Yet time continued to flow and now I ask myself, if I was to come today from the past with my skills at the prime time, will I be successful? Skills have evolved once more again...
TheMarine: I agree, there was a BIG skill improvement again and again. As of late, Offense AND defense are both a must at the same time.
TheMarine: Isn't that amusing if you think about it? In our prime time, we felt that... with every effort we moved our hands at the fastest speed we thought was possible. We concluded that our hands cannot be any faster than this. Especially at my time, the reason why I was most successful was only because my hands were the fastest. Back then 100 apm was the average, if fast, then low 200. However, I maintain low to mid 300 apms. Then XelloS and Nada's appearance pushed the limit to mid - high 300 apm. I thought THAT was the true limit. Anything above that was humanly impossible. The end. The end of multitask, the end of micro, the end of macro. That was the impression I had... But now, just look at Bisu... Jaedong... their apm? OVER 400. What's more amusing? All their teammates claim that all their movements are required movements. (Not spam) And I have nothing to say to that...
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For older players I think it has to do with burn out, and not adapting. I think having player who dominated for to long is bad. I would rather watch a rookie take his first starleague over watching flash take his millionth
New blood is important.
fyi Flash still owns.
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I got all excited about the musician analogy, although its a bit off topic lol
+ Show Spoiler +Comparing Yellow with Jaedong is like comparing Paul McCartney with Yngwie Malmsteen. I would say Yellow is Paul Gilmore, then Boxer is Jimi Hendrix Nada is Stevie Ray Vaughn Reach is Frank Zappa If JD is Yngwie, then Stork = Guthrie Govan Bisu = Jason Becker and Flash is Jeff Loomis The older generation were arguably the best of all time, but as far as technical skill on the instrument is concerned the latter musicians are indeed more capable (although not as original)
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Sometimes you can just feel that a new S-class player is rising. When Flash entered the pro-scene he went 15-2 over the first 3 months of play.
At the moment we have none who just comes in and owns it up from the start, and my guess is that unless we see that, the era of TBLS (though mostly LS) will last for a long time.
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On January 26 2011 05:13 StylishVODs wrote: Sometimes you can just feel that a new S-class player is rising. When Flash entered the pro-scene he went 15-2 over the first 3 months of play.
At the moment we have none who just comes in and owns it up from the start, and my guess is that unless we see that, the era of TBLS (though mostly LS) will last for a long time. yeah
I remember when Flash was new to the scene and he cheesed a lot, people complained a lot. When he stopped cheesing and played macro games, people complained.
Flash has made so much progress and new strategies and builds for terran and people still complain, but maybe they're just antifans ^^
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BaBy, TurN and Bogus are the next wave of Terran IMO, but that's not going to be for at least another 3 years or so. Flash is still young, and is going to remain on top of the game for years to come.
Zerg... Shine is great but needs to improve his macro game a bit (yes, he does have one, and it's decent, but he still relies a bit too much on hydrabusts.) Hydra himself had that monster streak but has dropped off since, I'd say the best candidate to replace the Dong is definitely Neo.G_Soulkey.
Protoss is a little harder. By.Sun is decent but not spectacular yet. Paralyze is overrated due to his (admittedly wonderful) hairstyle. free, Snow, and Stats are all basically known at this point, and free's slumping hard, Snow's PvZ is still way too shaky, and Stats is solid but uninspiring. Tyson, Brave, and Grape are all nowhere near good enough to consider themselves in the discussion (Brave's getting better, but still.) I'd say Taek Bang is going to be around for a good while yet.
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On January 25 2011 18:05 gongryong wrote:NO. Let me fix that for you... There
...That's real nice and all and I'mma let you finish, but + Show Spoiler + IS THE BEST OF ALL TIME... ALL TIME
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Bisu was gone for years. Stork was always mr silver. Flash has only been dominating the latter of those years. Only JD was on top of the game this whole timespan.
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fantasy could be up with these four imo. his pick is over 2300 too..
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Broodwar scene is quite boring right now if you're not a fan of TaekBangLeeSsang.
It sucks if you are a fan of A class players like Calm, Kal, Leta, Free, Zero, etc
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1019 Posts
On January 26 2011 06:21 FakePlasticLove wrote: Broodwar scene is quite boring right now if you're not a fan of TaekBangLeeSsang.
It sucks if you are a fan of A class players like Calm, Kal, Leta, Free, Zero, etc
I agree. I really hope OSL and MSL start featuring different people. I'm afraid people will lose interest in BW if TBLS is always getting the glory. At least flash isn't in the finals this season, I wouldn't have watched it.
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On January 26 2011 06:05 Navane wrote: Bisu was gone for years. Stork was always mr silver. Flash has only been dominating the latter of those years. Only JD was on top of the game this whole timespan.
This. Everyone seems to forget that JD is practically dominating since 2007. Even when Bisu did beat Savior and was considered the best JD was there (their MSL game anyone?). When Flash won his first OSL, JD was still there on top. And even now when everyone considers Flash the best. JD is there with him.
All hail Dong
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On January 26 2011 00:08 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:38 Yodo wrote:Jaedong has been playing subpar recently JD is fine. Why do ppl loose their trust to players so fast? Like I said, he is not playing like he used to(e.g dominating his opponents in a brutal manner). That does not mean that he is bad, hell he is still the nr 1 zerg, its just that compared to how he used to play it is not as good. cant be that other players also get better hm? no.
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On January 26 2011 07:01 Art.FeeL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:05 Navane wrote: Bisu was gone for years. Stork was always mr silver. Flash has only been dominating the latter of those years. Only JD was on top of the game this whole timespan. This. Everyone seems to forget that JD is practically dominating since 2007. Even when Bisu did beat Savior and was considered the best JD was there (their MSL game anyone?). When Flash won his first OSL, JD was still there on top. And even now when everyone considers Flash the best. JD is there with him. All hail Dong
But Stork have been hanging there from the year of 2004, it should take into account.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On January 26 2011 06:21 FakePlasticLove wrote: Broodwar scene is quite boring right now if you're not a fan of TaekBangLeeSsang.
It sucks if you are a fan of A class players like Calm, Kal, Leta, Free, Zero, etc
You said it.
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On January 26 2011 05:13 StylishVODs wrote: Sometimes you can just feel that a new S-class player is rising. When Flash entered the pro-scene he went 15-2 over the first 3 months of play.
At the moment we have none who just comes in and owns it up from the start, and my guess is that unless we see that, the era of TBLS (though mostly LS) will last for a long time.
Keep track of dream.t)check and sHy. It's a bit too early to tell but those players just debuted a few months ago and are already getting 70-80% winrates against b-teamers.
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United States1719 Posts
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On January 26 2011 07:29 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:01 Art.FeeL wrote:On January 26 2011 06:05 Navane wrote: Bisu was gone for years. Stork was always mr silver. Flash has only been dominating the latter of those years. Only JD was on top of the game this whole timespan. This. Everyone seems to forget that JD is practically dominating since 2007. Even when Bisu did beat Savior and was considered the best JD was there (their MSL game anyone?). When Flash won his first OSL, JD was still there on top. And even now when everyone considers Flash the best. JD is there with him. All hail Dong But Stork have been hanging there from the year of 2004, it should take into account.
Yeah, but there have been multiple times in that stretch where we thought that stork was never going to return to form. Jaedong has never fallen off of anyone's radar in the BW scene since he started being the Tyrant
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Yell0w: I kept telling him that he already won. There's no way you will lose with the skill you have. And he responded in a cute fashion, "Fine then, I'll beat Jaedong easily and advance, ok?" I told him "I have complete faith in you! Go! Go win your games!" (Thumbs up) He later came back that day... "Hyung... Sorry..."
Yell0w + TheMarine: LoL
LOL
but seriously though effort vs. flash were always really good games and he had one of the best vP's out there. hite would be a scary team if he didn't retire
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On January 26 2011 01:32 Zaphid wrote: Last zerg that had the luxury of being a toss-up in ZvZ bo5 vs JD was Effort. He was 4-8 vs Jaedong, I wouldn't really want to call that a toss-up, especially when the last 6 games were 1-5 in Jaedong's favor.
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On January 25 2011 17:41 BLinD-RawR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +JD is Kobe,Flash is Lebron.
Definitely agree. Flash is Lebron Jaedong is Kobe Bisu is Wade (handsome and resurgent force this year) Stork is Dwight Howard (because he's so damn lovable!)
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On January 26 2011 06:21 FakePlasticLove wrote: Broodwar scene is quite boring right now if you're not a fan of TaekBangLeeSsang.
It sucks if you are a fan of A class players like Calm, Kal, Leta, Free, Zero, etc For fanboys perhaps. For people wanting entertaining high quality gameplay, i dont think so. The JvF finals have shown the highest level of gameplay in BW history, and i dont think this seasons starleague finals will be quite as awesome from that point..
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I think this is because they all made their mark as top players in 2007. Ever since Bisu defeated Savior he created the modern era imo where players started to figure out the mechanics of starcraft. Throughout 2008, 2009, and 2010 the mechanics of progamers have been relatively consistent. Older generations saw dramatic change in required APM, multitask, macro etc.
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On January 25 2011 20:52 Tazza wrote: I think its kind of unfair to give Taekbangleessang this much credit because all of these players (except Jaedong) in my opinion have been very subpar at least once in the four years. Kind of like how the great players back then would take turns having dominance. Remember when Flash would just not build enough turrets and lose to 2hatch muta constantly? Remember when Bisu slumped HARD last year in the proleague, and had to take a break? Remember when Stork couldn't win a PvZ to save his life? Jaedong, idk, the only thing I can hold against him is losing to Flash in three consecutive starleagues. But I also remember when Jaedong used to dominate Flash before Flash's amazing run. I think Jaedong imo has been the only player that really hasn't lost such a beat in his entire career. But otherwise, the rest of Taekbanleessang have all had their turns sucking at one point
the thing about TBLS though is how over the last 4 years at least one of them has been on the top, and they always come back. I mean if I made this thread 6 months ago it wouldnt of made much sense, but the recent resurgence of bisu and stork I think proves that no matter what these 4 will eventually come back to the top if they go into a slump. Jaedong is by far the most consistent (I think there have only been like 1 season (incruit/clubday) since his 1st OSL win that he hasnt been to a final?) and bisu is probably the least consistent (most slumps and biggest dips and rises between them).
Either way I would say the main thing I was getting at is that these 4 have always had the most potential out of anyone to play the best BW possible, and it has been that way for an absurdly large amount of time. Generally by now a new generation of players overtakes them in terms of mechanics and skills, but that has not been the case yet.
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On January 25 2011 17:29 rasers wrote: EffOrt would be up there now... iam pretty sure.. the last games we saw of him were freaking awesome good.
Ya I agree that Effort was an insane zerg player. But he rose and fell and rose and fell. I just never saw him as replacing JD as the OP stated. I was so sad that he retired. I would love it if he made me eat my words right now.
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well, Bisu's a heart breaker. In every sense of the word I might add.
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effort to me retired at a really good time. people remember him winning OSL and not much else. Effort wasnt really doing too well right before he retired. he was just smart enough to retire before people realize that he's no good any more
i still think his OSL win was kal and flash just rolling over and giving it to him. look at how much he got outplayed by flash in games 1 and 2... I still cant believe how idiotic flash played in games 3-5 :\.
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On January 27 2011 16:02 Ideas wrote:effort to me retired at a really good time. people remember him winning OSL and not much else. Effort wasnt really doing too well right before he retired. he was just smart enough to retire before people realize that he's no good any more i still think his OSL win was kal and flash just rolling over and giving it to him. look at how much he got outplayed by flash in games 1 and 2... I still cant believe how idiotic flash played in games 3-5 :\. People keep saying that Flash played badly that final but I really disagree. EffOrt was always known for playing a straight-up macro style, 12-hatching and going for a long game. With that knowledge the builds that Flash did made perfect sense. EffOrt simply played unexpected by playing very aggressive in the second half of that series. There's no reason that Flash should have practised for those situations. If you assume Flash is a God and should have been prepared for everything and that anything less than a perfect game is an "idiotic" game by him then I see your point (though it is stupid, even though people joke about how Flash is a machine, he is not, he is still human).
It is impossible to tell what EffOrt might have done had he not retired but I think he was more at Fantasy's level than TBLS. Very good, but not the best. Some good stretches, some bad, but not the kind of domination or consistency that TBLS have demonstrated over the years.
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wtf? no reasonf or flash 2 practise against it? u cant assume that in a final ur oppenent will play just like he did the whole time before.. so yes he should have prepared for that... Effort just outsmarted him there.
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wow bisu beat savior 4 years ago? How time flies...
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
In terms of newer players I think the two I'm looking forward to the most are Hydra and Stats. Stats not getting enough credit. ;/
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Ive gotta ask now.... I know who they are... and I know the term has been used for ages. But after googling and searching TL 6 months ago and today I still dont know why its: TaekBangLeeSsang
why?
Taek Is obviously Bisu, and Lee is JD or Flash... so ?
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Leessang = 2 Lee. and Bang is Stork but i dont remember why ^^
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United States10328 Posts
On January 27 2011 20:11 Pippah wrote: Ive gotta ask now.... I know who they are... and I know the term has been used for ages. But after googling and searching TL 6 months ago and today I still dont know why its: TaekBangLeeSsang
why?
Taek Is obviously Bisu, and Lee is JD or Flash... so ?
lol, this has been asked earlier in the thread already @_@
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Click at your own risk. + Show Spoiler +Stork's 0-3 in the MSL made him drop below 2300.
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On January 26 2011 00:02 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:23 dcberkeley wrote:On January 25 2011 23:10 Roffles wrote: Dunno bout you, but Effort was damn good when he quit. I think he'd be a legitimate contender now against JD if he didn't quit. Oh no doubt. The guy was wicked good in all three matchups, and could hang with the big guns (Stork, Bisu, Flash, JD) no problem at all. The guy knew how to win games, and definitely had the skills and mindset to make it big. Plus, his ZvP was sick. The guy had it all. Late game hive management, really good mutalisk harass, and as witnessed vs Flash in the OSL Finals, he's not afraid to mess with you with early zergling attacks. The guy was just really good at the game. It's a shame he quit.
His scourge, his lings, his ZvP...he'd beat me; he beat Sea... Gahh I miss Effort.
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