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This question is mostly aimed at long time BW players, who are used to the (sometimes) inconvenient hotkeys.
Personally, I don't plan on changing much as reworking the muscle memory is way too much work without much benefit, but I think a few key hotkeys are worth changing.
For now, the first thing I will change is probably Probe [P] -> [S] as it is super awkward for (at least) a non-protoss main.
I am interested in what other people think is worth changing, so I get some ideas which other hotkeys I should at least think about.
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Siege mode "o" to "e" for sure.
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Marines and move command from azerty layout to qwerty layout (which means from [;] to [m]). And... that's it I guess.
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probe and pylon from P to E, siege mode from O to E and marine from M to A ... i think thats all
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not sure yet. Played thousand of games with GRID in SC2. Now played hundreds in Broodwar with the old layout and iam feeling mostly fine tbh. Feels strange to attack move with T again.
Guess iam chaning scanning to 'P' cause my orbitals are on 9 & 0. Stim & Siege & Irradiate needs a better button then Y (qwertz keyboard) Otherwise, hmm.. Not sure yet.
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Pylon from P to E is probably the only one.
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Bearded Elder29876 Posts
I'm not changing anything at all probably :<
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Northern Ireland163 Posts
Pylon/Probe to E Siege to E Mine to E Marine to A Probably will change irradiate as well when I can be bothered.
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On July 25 2017 18:10 Keniji wrote: Personally, I don't plan on changing much as reworking the muscle memory is way too much work without much benefit
Just wanted to point out that if you choose to go for the grid keys it's not not really "reworking muscle memory" as the keys are super intuitive. At least it was for me when i changed to grid keys in BW after a couple of years. Took me like a week or so to get accustomed.
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France1916 Posts
Using Azerty Keyboard.
Overlord to V Mutalisks to T Zerglings speed to J
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Change? Why change? Hotkeys are perfect the way they are
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I'm sure changing some would be for the best, but I don't see myself doing it right away at least. Too used to normal settings.
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They migh be banned from competitive play, since you can toggle it on/off.
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well i changed a ton of stuff for every race
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Hotkeys are live in old scbw?
Or do you mean in SC:R? i dont get it
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They are available on BW 1.19.
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On July 25 2017 21:01 TT1 wrote:well i changed a ton of stuff for every race
Yea, after testing it out a bit I changed pretty much everything that is to the right of Y - H - B on a qwerty keyboard (and scourge because fuck building them on accident lol) and already feels better even tho I sometimes go for the wrong hotkey.
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On July 25 2017 21:36 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2017 21:01 TT1 wrote:well i changed a ton of stuff for every race Yea, after testing it out a bit I changed pretty much everything that is to the right of Y - H - B on a qwerty keyboard (and scourge because fuck building them on accident lol) and already feels better even tho I sometimes go for the wrong hotkey.
I'm such a pleb that i even changed H (hold position) to F.
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Scourge from s to something else. All the nightmares when you build a ton of scourge when you quickly need ground units or overlords or whatever, because you accidentally clicked s twice.
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Tried to have a simple grid layout, but since I'm so accustomed to SC2's hotkeys, some had to be altered, like attack move on T, hold position on E and patrol on R. I've also noticed a bug for the armory upgrades, they've used the SC2 layout for those in the hotkey menu (horizontal instead of vertical alignment for vehicle and ship upgrades), so ingame they should be Q,A and W,S, but I've kept it Q,W and A, S for the sake of muscle memory.
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I don't think I'll change anything, can't go back on 15 years of muscle memory.
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Pylon from p to e, of course.
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I changed 1a2a3a to 1q2q3q so Protoss becomes even less APM intensive :trollface:
I wonder if custom hotkeys change the balance because I think Protoss players used to be the only race that's hand started on the right side of the keyboard instead of the left.
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Scourge off of S is a must, and like the idea of Overlord to V Mutalisks to T
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i changed pretty much everything and i can feel it helping already
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For now i've just changed Pylon to E, being used to bind nexus on 8 9 0 P for probe is fine. Oh right storm research from P to T, not a big deal.
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I wish custom hotkeys weren't a thing but since they are you are prob at a disadvantage if you dont.
Think I fully optimized the controls. Only play zerg so that's all I changed.
All upgrades are q then w then e in either the order I research (consume --> plague --> energy) or the order they appear on screen (melee attack, range, carapace). All abilities and spells also just qwe. All morphing like lurkers guardians and lair done with q.
Burrow to X
All units and buildings directly surround the s and d keys. High priority units to the sides or below.
Evo chamber SA Hatchery SD Creep colony SS Nydus DD Overlord SC
Hold position to D for closer muta micro.
May make a few other changes.
Took about 3 hours of playing custom games to get used to the changes. Not as hard as you would think.
This also doesn't help as much as you might think as F2-F4 can't be changed (camera keys) and group binding must still he done the same. Those would be even bigger changes.
I think custom hotkeys benefits Terran by far the most which is bad since they already the best race
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I don't know yet, I've liked the old hotkeys except s for scourge.
I played the french version for a while though and I really liked that probes were built with S and not P in that version, so I'll probably do that too.
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Overlord to R, burrow/unburrow to Q and mutas to X
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On July 25 2017 23:39 Alpha-NP- wrote: I changed 1a2a3a to 1q2q3q so Protoss becomes even less APM intensive :trollface:
I wonder if custom hotkeys change the balance because I think Protoss players used to be the only race that's hand started on the right side of the keyboard instead of the left. which is exactly why I like having probes on p and organizing my nexus at 890 there for midgame. Might try pylon to e....
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I changed Patrol to Z, but nothing else. As Zerg I don't see any benefit for me to change any others.
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Playing zerg and I might change the patrol hotkey. Just for quick and easy patrol micro with mutas.
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definitely changing the hotkey for using Psi-Storm on HT's, and that's probably what has lost me the most when they get sniped and I click the letter next to it.
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I tried changing hotkeys... and APM got chopped in half. Will stay with original set up. Then again, I use terran mostly. I imagine s for scourge and p for probe will be the keys that changed if any. Those are even mentioned by pro gamers as problematic hot keys.
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I don't see an option to have multiple slots for saving hotkey profiles.
It's gonna be super weird to share computers with siblings, friends, or for LAN gettogethers.
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Just started learning brood war, still used to SC2 hotkeys.
So went with a similar style to what I am used to.
Overlord: V Muta: T Sunken: C Spore: A Burrow: R Ultralisk: E Ultralisk Den: E All movement speed increase upgrades: M (even if its far away very used to hitting once for speed) Lurker Upgrade and Morph: X ( Custom one here as L just always seemed out of place ) Patrol: Z
Actually changed quite a bit lol.
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Every upgrades building to: qwe + asd (if theres a second layers of upgrade) Every active abilities to: qwe Burrow to R Patrol to Z Hold position to S Stop to H Overlords to V
that's what I had on Sc2 and it works wonder to me
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I wont switch anything for protoss...
Terran im going to use P for scans, T or Y for siege Mode, M for mines.
Zerg, lurker burrow to R, 1a2a3r...
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On July 25 2017 18:16 Drake wrote: probe and pylon from P to E, siege mode from O to E and marine from M to A ... i think thats all
this
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Nuttin' I guess.
What is H.O.T.K.E.Y.s ?
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Changing them to focus more on the left side of my keyboard :D
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just changing Pylon to E.
I'm actually okay with leaving Probes as P since i hotkey my nexus as 0
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On July 25 2017 20:06 endy wrote: Nothing. my man
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Changing is a bad idea. Since hotkeys can be disabled, you're going to be very limited in who you can play. Ultimately you will have to learn old hotkeys and new ones.
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On July 26 2017 13:28 puppykiller wrote: Changing is a bad idea. Since hotkeys can be disabled, you're going to be very limited in who you can play. Ultimately you will have to learn old hotkeys and new ones. I can't imagine that being a serious issue, especially for the Foreign scene. I can't imagine Blizzard banning such things on the ladder, and I doubt foreign orgs are going to that purist since that denies them so much fresh blood.
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The only thing im worried about is Fish not allowing custom hotkeys on the ladder. Not being able to practice vs the highest calibre players would really suck.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On July 26 2017 13:28 puppykiller wrote: Changing is a bad idea. Since hotkeys can be disabled, you're going to be very limited in who you can play. Ultimately you will have to learn old hotkeys and new ones.
that would be ridiculous
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You don't think people are going to host games where they don't let you use custom hotkeys? I am xD
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Only these keys remained the same. S -> SCV T -> Stim D -> Defense Matrix
I tried learning back to classic keys and it turned out okayish, but some keys are just plain shitty like M for marines or I for Irradiate, O for siege/tank mode and P for patrol.
Never going back to that again.
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Nothing to change. For me.
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On July 26 2017 15:41 puppykiller wrote: You don't think people are going to host games where they don't let you use custom hotkeys? I am xD Sure people are, but I guarantee you, especially long-term, they're going to be lonely people and it might take them 10x longer to get into a game compared to if they conceded the hot key option.
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No because if I can't get a game I can just turn it back on for a game or two.
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I changed everything for the qwer layout. Even attack is now from A too T
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United States9662 Posts
Marine to A Siege mode to E Mines to W Patrol to Q Probes and Pylons to E
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On July 26 2017 15:41 puppykiller wrote: You don't think people are going to host games where they don't let you use custom hotkeys? I am xD
why?
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On July 26 2017 14:58 TT1 wrote: The only thing im worried about is Fish not allowing custom hotkeys on the ladder. Not being able to practice vs the highest calibre players would really suck.
I don't think it's going to matter. I know right now ladder games count, I don't see that changing. I imagine most people aren't going to turn it off, don't know why anyone would turn it off because if they lose, it's not because of hotkeys.
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Nothing. One less choice to make.
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Blizz understands that a lot of purists won't like the disadvantage they'll have when playing against a more convenient hotkey setup. This is probably the main reason why they made it an option to filter out hotkeys in the first place. Also, it takes time to introduce any drastic changes to the competitive scene, and they're not guaranteed to make it in.
Custom hotkeys are obviously aimed at newer players. It may not sound like it's a big deal, but to most casual players, it's huge. Most of us aren't accustomed to pressing p with our left hand, which also dereferences the relative keys from the hand position. I typically try to reset my hand position so that my pinky is back to floating around the A key. But to be proficient, you must be able to reference keys when your pointer finger hits the p key. "bp" for example, instead of hitting b with your pointer finger, you do so with your pinky so that you can follow up with p using your pointer finger. These micro transactions add up, and making them second nature will take an unexpected amount of time. Custom hotkeys are much easier as they reduce the number of combinations and coordinations.
That being said, I think there's a small possibility that it may catch on in the pro scene, but it's gonna be a while. Especially because the foreign bw scene doesn't hold much weight, at least for now. Knowing the Korean culture and how they value hand dexterity, I wouldn't bet on custom hotkeys if you're going pro. You can thank blizz for putting you in an awkward spot.
As a casual, I'm gonna use it.
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On July 26 2017 16:30 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2017 15:41 puppykiller wrote: You don't think people are going to host games where they don't let you use custom hotkeys? I am xD why?
To torment you
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On July 26 2017 16:12 puppykiller wrote: No because if I can't get a game I can just turn it back on for a game or two.
Which essentially means you conceded to custom hotkeys for a game or two.
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On July 26 2017 19:05 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2017 16:30 TT1 wrote:On July 26 2017 15:41 puppykiller wrote: You don't think people are going to host games where they don't let you use custom hotkeys? I am xD why? To torment you
:O
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i really want to hear some reasoning behind the people who think hotkeys will change the meta or "break bw gameplay". it absolutely does nothing to affect the gameplay or balance, it only makes it easier for new people to jump in and play. The skill ceiling in bw is too damn high for hotkeys to make it "easier". Plus, hotkeys are open to everyone, if hotkeys were some kind of magic advantage, then hold onto your dicks because according to that logic, we will see some of the most spectacular and jaw dropping play from pros who can now use hotkeys. They are going to go super saiyan.
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On July 25 2017 21:00 psd wrote: They migh be banned from competitive play, since you can toggle it on/off.
no that will not happen, that would exclude all new players too ... would be horrible idea
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On July 26 2017 16:12 puppykiller wrote: No because if I can't get a game I can just turn it back on for a game or two.
so then ur whole point of this is ... what exactly ? that u "dont like it" and wanna act like a 5 year old about it ? becuase tahts what the whole option seems to be for me ... an option for angry kids to say "but mum i dont want to"
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On July 25 2017 20:37 iG.Arcneon wrote: I'm sure changing some would be for the best, but I don't see myself doing it right away at least. Too used to normal settings. gotta do it asap to get used to it asap though
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On July 26 2017 19:05 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2017 16:30 TT1 wrote:On July 26 2017 15:41 puppykiller wrote: You don't think people are going to host games where they don't let you use custom hotkeys? I am xD why? To torment you if anything you'll torment yourself by having to wait indefinitely whenever you disable it, seriously nobody cares, are people scared they're going to be at a disadvantage because their hotkeys are a bit less convenient?
If you're good at starcraft you're good, if you're bad you're bad, hotkeys won't change anything
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Drop to d Interceptors to e
I have also rearranged some upgrades. For example, all speed upgrades are on s. (There are a few I would still just click^^)
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I will change the way I host games to not allow for custom hotkeys if that counts I guess, hand dexterity and flexibility is cool.
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On July 26 2017 14:58 TT1 wrote: The only thing im worried about is Fish not allowing custom hotkeys on the ladder. Not being able to practice vs the highest calibre players would really suck. Just logged onto fish and checked every single non-UMS game. Out of ~50 games I saw exactly one with custom hotkeys disabled.
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Let's see..... Probe - q , because i hotkey my nexus 1 and 2 in the begining observers - w (cannot press o with my right hand cuz it is too far away !) and thats it
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On July 26 2017 23:50 prosatan wrote: Let's see..... Probe - q , because i hotkey my nexus 1 and 2 in the begining observers - w (cannot press o with my right hand cuz it is too far away !) and thats it
What's the reasoning behind using Q with probe because you use nexus for 1 and 2? It may be better than 1-p, but it's more efficient and faster to do something like 1-e. Using the same finger in the same combination isn't that great imo. My 2 cents.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
I've moved attack move to q, which I was used to from sc2.
Now I accidently leave games occasionally, because ctrl + q = quit mission, when i rehotkey something and quickly want to attack move it, before I know it I've left the game.
I've posted several times on starcraft forums about this, but not sure feedback is being heard there, it's a lot of spam. I hope ctrl+q shortcut will be removed from the game.
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Is it possible to get the german default hotkeys somehow? I know i could change everything by hand but i prefer having a quick way to load them. Also saving/loading custom made keysets would be cool.
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First thing, the probe and the pylon... The dictate of the P button is over, we are free !
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On July 27 2017 02:48 Liquid`Ret wrote: I've moved attack move to q, which I was used to from sc2.
Now I accidently leave games occasionally, because ctrl + q = quit mission, when i rehotkey something and quickly want to attack move it, before I know it I've left the game.
I've posted several times on starcraft forums about this, but not sure feedback is being heard there, it's a lot of spam. I hope ctrl+q shortcut will be removed from the game.
lmao. Ret that is funny. Guess you should change it as I don't think ctrl+q is going to change.
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On July 27 2017 03:55 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 02:48 Liquid`Ret wrote: I've moved attack move to q, which I was used to from sc2.
Now I accidently leave games occasionally, because ctrl + q = quit mission, when i rehotkey something and quickly want to attack move it, before I know it I've left the game.
I've posted several times on starcraft forums about this, but not sure feedback is being heard there, it's a lot of spam. I hope ctrl+q shortcut will be removed from the game.
lmao. Ret that is funny. Guess you should change it as I don't think ctrl+q is going to change. If they can unbind F1 they should make CTRL-Q unbindable too.
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I don't think you can unbind F1 can you? If so I can't seem to find it.
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Probably moving scourge, patrol, hold pos and nothing else to start.
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On July 27 2017 05:43 blade55555 wrote: I don't think you can unbind F1 can you? If so I can't seem to find it. https://starcraft.com/en-us/articles/20726737
To preserve competitive balance, F keys and Control Groups will still not be remappable, but we’re happy to report that there will be an option to disable the F1 “Help” menu, ameliorating the need to remove that button from keyboards.
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I know they said that you can disable F1, but I can't find anywhere to do it in the latest patch. So not sure if you can yet or not.
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Ultra> g scourge > r muta > t burrow on lurker > e lurker > R overlord > v drop command > d
ultra speed >s ultra armour > a
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Just moved probe and pylon to e, everything else including patrol and the other races hotkeys I'm cool with.
Still keep trying to do b p for pylon... But I still think it's better this way.
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is it possible to change the location set hotkeys? i want to be able to use f1
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51139 Posts
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I will probably try my WC3 short cut ERDF.
E : Main spell/ main upgrade from building/ main units from building R : 2nd spell / upgrade / units D : 3rd F : 4th
I'll keep P for probe, i like 9P0P in early/mid game.
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For ppl who cant find where to change them, you find the hotkey menu right after you started the game, below the multiplayer icon and not in the options menu where I was first looking
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On July 27 2017 18:11 AbsO wrote:For ppl who cant find where to change them, you find the hotkey menu right after you started the game, below the multiplayer icon and not in the options menu where I was first looking lets be fair, who cant find this huge HOTKEYS button doesnt even deserve to have them changed xD
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Siege mode and plant mines to D.
phew, already won one game because of that IMBA hotkey. Usually I miss 30-50% of siege mode and plant mine hotkeys. xD
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Switching Pylon/Probe to E feels absolutely amazing after a few games, it should be default on all new installs of the game!
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Played since the release of SC, will be changing absolutely nothing as far as hotkeys are concerned.
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This will just be a small unstructured rant because I know the re-assignable hotkeys are here to stay. Let me say beforehand though, I don't care about this in lower leagues. I'm only concerned about semi-professional and professional play.
I would like it if Fish banned custom hotkeys from ladder play, or if korean professional tournaments forced English legacy hotkeys (as I surmise they actually did. Or it was at least an unspoken rule. Same as for a standard QWERTY keyboard lay-out. Why else did we never see any korean pro's with a custom keyboard lay-out etc).
Why you may ask? Because it's to keep a competitive sport intact. I want to know I'm playing the same game as Jaedong was in 2008 or whatever. I want to know that when I see professional players pull off incredible macro, or micro techniques such as microing 2 groups of mutalisks, that we're playing with the same tools. I know he has to press M for move-micro, or that he has to press P for patrol-micro. Now how can I make this work with hotkeys 1-2, which we both use for mutalisks? Or maybe he actually assigns mutalisks to 9-0 as well?
I don't want everyone to have different tools at his disposal. I don't want the struggle to macro and micro to become more about figuring out an excellent keyboard lay-out, than figuring out how to efficiently move/position your hands but more importantly just being fast and accurate. The latter being a skill that requires you to dedicate a lot of time, just like with any other sport in the real world.
Also some people are making unsubstantiated claims about how this won't affect anything. Until we've seen professional players play with custom hotkeys for a year without seeing any changes in how the game's played, it's much more reasonable to assume that it will have an effect.
Let's say changing the hotkeys to build a probe from B-P to B-E makes you 50-100 ms faster at producing a probe. Now imagine having to perform this action 100 times in a game. 50/100 ms *100 = 5-10 seconds. You will be 5-10 seconds faster across an entire game. That seems HUGE to me.
Finally, the argument that there have been different sets of hotkeys already in the different language versions of the game, or the argument that people have already been using custom hotkeys, are not valid to me for these reasons:
1. I can't find any evidence at all that professional Korean tournaments allowed anything other than English legacy keys on a QWERTY type of keyboard. 2. People that have been using custom hotkeys already, are cheaters. Pretty funny trying to use cheaters as a way to justify hotkey rebinding. Would be akin to just forcing everyone to accept steroids or doping in physical sports because cheaters are using it.
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Different languages= different hotkey setups, that has been established since release. You've always been playing with different tools, you were just ignorant [and your relatively new to the scene] about it. People also used custom hotkeys, and while you can call them cheaters, plenty of tournaments do not and have not for decades. If theres an optimal way of using hotkeys that can actually differentiate players, people will simply migrate naturally to that tool set, which means, eventually, you will not be playing with different tools. Thats that. Your entire argument, done.
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On July 28 2017 00:05 B-royal wrote: This will just be a small unstructured rant because I know the re-assignable hotkeys are here to stay. Let me say beforehand though, I don't care about this in lower leagues. I'm only concerned about semi-professional and professional play.
... ...
1. I can't find any evidence at all that professional Korean tournaments allowed anything other than English legacy keys on a QWERTY type of keyboard. 2. People that have been using custom hotkeys already, are cheaters. Pretty funny trying to use cheaters as a way to justify hotkey rebinding. Would be akin to just forcing everyone to accept steroids or doping in physical sports because cheaters are using it.
I think if all players have access to these tools, then there is no advantage one player can have over another.
The same way people copy build orders, hotkey bindings will be copied until an optimal one is set and becomes the new standard. If anything, one could argue this adds a new perspective into the competitive game, as hotkeys start to get studied to gain a few ms advantages, much like the building placement or the drone gas trick did a few years ago.
Hell, you could even argue that Protosses have been at a disadvantage all these years compared to the SCV "S' or Drone "D" hotkeys.
By following your logic, we should only allow one mouse model and one keyboard model, as it's the only way to make sure there's no advantages from some one person with better hardware than someone without.
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so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out
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On July 28 2017 02:11 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 00:05 B-royal wrote: This will just be a small unstructured rant because I know the re-assignable hotkeys are here to stay. Let me say beforehand though, I don't care about this in lower leagues. I'm only concerned about semi-professional and professional play.
... ...
1. I can't find any evidence at all that professional Korean tournaments allowed anything other than English legacy keys on a QWERTY type of keyboard. 2. People that have been using custom hotkeys already, are cheaters. Pretty funny trying to use cheaters as a way to justify hotkey rebinding. Would be akin to just forcing everyone to accept steroids or doping in physical sports because cheaters are using it.
I think if all players have access to these tools, then there is no advantage one player can have over another. The same way people copy build orders, hotkey bindings will be copied until an optimal one is set and becomes the new standard. If anything, one could argue this adds a new perspective into the competitive game, as hotkeys start to get studied to gain a few ms advantages, much like the building placement or the drone gas trick did a few years ago. Hell, you could even argue that Protosses have been at a disadvantage all these years compared to the SCV "S' or Drone "D" hotkeys. By following your logic, we should only allow one mouse model and one keyboard model, as it's the only way to make sure there's no advantages from some one person with better hardware than someone without.
As I mentioned before, custom hotkeys are significant. More than most people realize. It's not as simple as pressing P to build a pylon. It's how you have to dereference your default hand position to press B then P. Sure, pressing B with your pointer finger is easy enough. But to do it with your pinky takes a little more practice. This sort of variance yields more different coordinations than with an efficient custom hotkey setup. And this is only a single example out of many combinations.
For this reason, I doubt professional tournaments will allow custom hotkeys any time soon. It may eventually make its way in, but it's going to take a while. Especially when we're talking about Koreans. They're generally extremely traditional even with the tiniest of details.
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United States4883 Posts
Oh god, here we go again....
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On July 28 2017 02:37 jehlakj wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 02:11 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:On July 28 2017 00:05 B-royal wrote: This will just be a small unstructured rant because I know the re-assignable hotkeys are here to stay. Let me say beforehand though, I don't care about this in lower leagues. I'm only concerned about semi-professional and professional play.
... ...
1. I can't find any evidence at all that professional Korean tournaments allowed anything other than English legacy keys on a QWERTY type of keyboard. 2. People that have been using custom hotkeys already, are cheaters. Pretty funny trying to use cheaters as a way to justify hotkey rebinding. Would be akin to just forcing everyone to accept steroids or doping in physical sports because cheaters are using it.
I think if all players have access to these tools, then there is no advantage one player can have over another. The same way people copy build orders, hotkey bindings will be copied until an optimal one is set and becomes the new standard. If anything, one could argue this adds a new perspective into the competitive game, as hotkeys start to get studied to gain a few ms advantages, much like the building placement or the drone gas trick did a few years ago. Hell, you could even argue that Protosses have been at a disadvantage all these years compared to the SCV "S' or Drone "D" hotkeys. By following your logic, we should only allow one mouse model and one keyboard model, as it's the only way to make sure there's no advantages from some one person with better hardware than someone without. As I mentioned before, custom hotkeys are significant. More than most people realize. It's not as simple as pressing P to build a pylon. It's how you have to dereference your default hand position to press B then P. Sure, pressing B with your pointer finger is easy enough. But to do it with your pinky takes a little more practice. This sort of variance yields more different coordinations than with an efficient custom hotkey setup. And this is only a single example out of many combinations. For this reason, I doubt professional tournaments will allow custom hotkeys any time soon. It may eventually make its way in, but it's going to take a while. Especially when we're talking about Koreans. They're generally extremely traditional even with the tiniest of details. And yet, everyone on fish has custom hotkeys enabled, and every pro whos commented on customizable hotkeys have come out strongly in favour...hmmmm....
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Changing hotkeys wont matter much once you adapted those. Im not against rebind hotkeys btw. Sc is not rhythm game like osu, ddr, etc. U dont always need to get those marvelous, perfect combo and stuff in sc.
Based on my experience from every game, i noticed koreans barely change their hotkeys for sc2 and lol both games. I know in foreign lol community was also saying smart cast and quick cast are way better, but koreans never used it in lol. They prefer manual cast as their primary keys and smart and quick cast for their secondary.
In lol season 3, people were all gone crazy about insec kick and better to do that combo with quick/smart cast like 3 (for putting down a ward) w (dashing to the ward) and r ( for kick). If u can feel that way is easier for you to do the combo, good for you. But its not gonna improve your game knowledge. And its a strategy game. Situation always will be different.
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On July 28 2017 02:48 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 02:37 jehlakj wrote:On July 28 2017 02:11 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:On July 28 2017 00:05 B-royal wrote: This will just be a small unstructured rant because I know the re-assignable hotkeys are here to stay. Let me say beforehand though, I don't care about this in lower leagues. I'm only concerned about semi-professional and professional play.
... ...
1. I can't find any evidence at all that professional Korean tournaments allowed anything other than English legacy keys on a QWERTY type of keyboard. 2. People that have been using custom hotkeys already, are cheaters. Pretty funny trying to use cheaters as a way to justify hotkey rebinding. Would be akin to just forcing everyone to accept steroids or doping in physical sports because cheaters are using it.
I think if all players have access to these tools, then there is no advantage one player can have over another. The same way people copy build orders, hotkey bindings will be copied until an optimal one is set and becomes the new standard. If anything, one could argue this adds a new perspective into the competitive game, as hotkeys start to get studied to gain a few ms advantages, much like the building placement or the drone gas trick did a few years ago. Hell, you could even argue that Protosses have been at a disadvantage all these years compared to the SCV "S' or Drone "D" hotkeys. By following your logic, we should only allow one mouse model and one keyboard model, as it's the only way to make sure there's no advantages from some one person with better hardware than someone without. As I mentioned before, custom hotkeys are significant. More than most people realize. It's not as simple as pressing P to build a pylon. It's how you have to dereference your default hand position to press B then P. Sure, pressing B with your pointer finger is easy enough. But to do it with your pinky takes a little more practice. This sort of variance yields more different coordinations than with an efficient custom hotkey setup. And this is only a single example out of many combinations. For this reason, I doubt professional tournaments will allow custom hotkeys any time soon. It may eventually make its way in, but it's going to take a while. Especially when we're talking about Koreans. They're generally extremely traditional even with the tiniest of details. And yet, everyone on fish has custom hotkeys enabled, and every pro whos commented on customizable hotkeys have come out strongly in favour...hmmmm....
You bring up some good points, but our arguments are at most speculations. We'll just have to wait and see how tournaments will handle this. I'm actually in favor of custom hotkeys, so I hope I'm wrong.
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Have any of the pros or good foreign players been publicly vocal on custom hotkeys directly impacting gameplay? By that i mean making certain builds/unit comps OP, or giving a certain race an advantage? I have not heard anything solid, so far I have only seen extreme elitism (coming from the not so elite) and and nothing concrete on issues that could arise. Maybe a lot of pros are actually happy about a relax on keyboard gymnastics They are the ones who play most afterall.
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On July 28 2017 00:41 Dazed. wrote: Different languages= different hotkey setups, that has been established since release. You've always been playing with different tools, you were just ignorant [and your relatively new to the scene] about it. People also used custom hotkeys, and while you can call them cheaters, plenty of tournaments do not and have not for decades. If theres an optimal way of using hotkeys that can actually differentiate players, people will simply migrate naturally to that tool set, which means, eventually, you will not be playing with different tools. Thats that. Your entire argument, done.
No, but thanks for trying.
1. Different languages =/ custom hotkeys. Custom hotkeys means assigning each spell, building, unit, function,... to whatever key you want. A different language is just a different set-up than the English one but it still has its own limitations.
2. People using custom hotkeys are cheaters, pretty simple. No custom hotkeys nor different language set-ups were ever used at the peak of the competition, which is Korean professional tournaments. I don't care about crappy foreigner tournaments.
3. There will be at minimum 3 sets of optimal hotkeys, one for each race because the races have different requirements (comSat stations to give an example). Of course other factors such as someone's hand span will also influence how many setups there will be (0sz, not particularly an easy feat to execute). A precedent for this is of course that even now, you have zergs such as jaedong that don't even use 9-0 and have their main hatchery on 4, whereas tons of others have their main on 5 and use all 10 hotkeys.
More importantly, what is your point with this? People won't migrate naturally to one tool set because it requires a great deal of knowledge to figure out the optimal set-up. Besides people will always have personal preferences. And when someone competitive finds it, he won't just share it with everyone, and especially not willingly.
4. The time between someone figuring out a perfect set-up could be years, and it would take even more time for everyone to start using it. Meanwhile this period of time until this hypothetical milestone is reached, would of course be a period where everyone is playing with different tools.
So again nice try, but you argumentation is completely flawed.
On July 28 2017 02:48 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 02:37 jehlakj wrote:On July 28 2017 02:11 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:On July 28 2017 00:05 B-royal wrote: This will just be a small unstructured rant because I know the re-assignable hotkeys are here to stay. Let me say beforehand though, I don't care about this in lower leagues. I'm only concerned about semi-professional and professional play.
... ...
1. I can't find any evidence at all that professional Korean tournaments allowed anything other than English legacy keys on a QWERTY type of keyboard. 2. People that have been using custom hotkeys already, are cheaters. Pretty funny trying to use cheaters as a way to justify hotkey rebinding. Would be akin to just forcing everyone to accept steroids or doping in physical sports because cheaters are using it.
I think if all players have access to these tools, then there is no advantage one player can have over another. The same way people copy build orders, hotkey bindings will be copied until an optimal one is set and becomes the new standard. If anything, one could argue this adds a new perspective into the competitive game, as hotkeys start to get studied to gain a few ms advantages, much like the building placement or the drone gas trick did a few years ago. Hell, you could even argue that Protosses have been at a disadvantage all these years compared to the SCV "S' or Drone "D" hotkeys. By following your logic, we should only allow one mouse model and one keyboard model, as it's the only way to make sure there's no advantages from some one person with better hardware than someone without. As I mentioned before, custom hotkeys are significant. More than most people realize. It's not as simple as pressing P to build a pylon. It's how you have to dereference your default hand position to press B then P. Sure, pressing B with your pointer finger is easy enough. But to do it with your pinky takes a little more practice. This sort of variance yields more different coordinations than with an efficient custom hotkey setup. And this is only a single example out of many combinations. For this reason, I doubt professional tournaments will allow custom hotkeys any time soon. It may eventually make its way in, but it's going to take a while. Especially when we're talking about Koreans. They're generally extremely traditional even with the tiniest of details. And yet, everyone on fish has custom hotkeys enabled, and every pro whos commented on customizable hotkeys have come out strongly in favour...hmmmm....
No.
1. Custom hotkeys enabled is the default setting.
2. How did you gather all this data? Funny because when I log into the Fish ladder channel, all I see are >C rank players still asking for games on 1.16. A ton of koreans are still playing 1.16 but I won't speak for them. A few critical weeks are coming up, and soon we will know what their stance is.
3. What about all the pro's who haven't commented? Do you presume to know their opinion as well?
4. All I remember is them saying they don't care about it and currently believe it will not affect gameplay. If that turns out true, great. Then I can stop worrying about it as well, and I won't care.
If they did "come out strongly in favour of it" please support this with evidence such as actual footage or translations from someone reputable and reliable.
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Nothing, I ve only changed once from French to English many years (10+) ago and now i m just too old to readapt.
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On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out
Yes, if blizzard removed the fog of war for all players it would be the same advantage, the same way if blizzard decided to start everyone with 10000 minerals, make all workers mine 2x as fast etc, nobody would be put at an advantage, and it wouldn't be making the game easier, BECAUSE EVERYONE WOULD HAVE THOSE SAME rules, but the game would be a shitty game indeed.
But key rebinding? You're talking about a disadvantage that's being given the choice to be fixed. SCV is S, Drone is D, but Probe is all the way to the right of the keyboard, that's a flaw that I guess Blizzard never took into account when the game came out 20 years ago.
The change in mechanics is minuscule, and it won't take the focus away from the mechanics one bit, those buttons still need to be pressed. It might make pressing the buttons easier, but if everyone can do that then the game doesn't become any easier at all.
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On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: No, but thanks for trying. Keep the childish snippyness out of the forum please.
On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: 1. Different languages =/ custom hotkeys. Custom hotkeys means assigning each spell, building, unit, function,... to whatever key you want. A different language is just a different set-up than the English one but it still has its own limitations. Every setup has its limitations, what an insipid point to make. There are still advantages and disadvantages between each keyboard setup, and they are not even. Competitive disadvantages exist in that sense.
On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: 2. People using custom hotkeys are cheaters, pretty simple. No custom hotkeys nor different language set-ups were ever used at the peak of the competition, which is Korean professional tournaments. I don't care about crappy foreigner tournaments. Ok, black and white thinking. Why?
On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: 3. There will be at minimum 3 sets of optimal hotkeys, one for each race because the races have different requirements (comSat stations to give an example). Of course other factors such as someone's hand span will also influence how many setups there will be (0sz, not particularly an easy feat to execute). A precedent for this is of course that even now, you have zergs such as jaedong that don't even use 9-0 and have their main hatchery on 4, whereas tons of others have their main on 5 and use all 10 hotkeys. ...So?
On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: More importantly, what is your point with this? People won't migrate naturally to one tool set because it requires a great deal of knowledge to figure out the optimal set-up. Like people wont migrate to optimal build orders because it requires knowledge? Oh wait...On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: Besides people will always have personal preferences. If your only concerned with "the height of competition" and not the scene itself, personal preference will take a back seat to "the height of competition" will it not? So which is it? Are you concerned only with pros or the scene itself? On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: And when someone competitive finds it, he won't just share it with everyone, and especially not willingly. Wtf? We have streams, we have bw chart, we have word of mouth...how in the hell do you think hotkey setups will remain a secret? You already mentioned jaedongs hotkey set up...because its known. All the pros hotkey setups are known, we can literally figure out smurfs in five minutes flat just by their hotkey setups. Your not even consistent line to line.
On July 28 2017 03:03 B-royal wrote: 4. The time between someone figuring out a perfect set-up could be years, and it would take even more time for everyone to start using it. It could be years, it could be days, but the rate of transmission between someone having a better setup [such that it is accruing them victories at an appreciable rate] will be very quick "at the height of competition". Which is why we've seen, and will continue to see, such rapid changes in the meta and simple mechanical procedures. Every advantage counts, and if it counts, people will notice. Analysis and all that.
Basically your argument amounts to: I dont care about anyone but the pros, and this could influence game balance but not in a way people will notice or be able to copy for ages.
What?
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On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out
lol, the people who have learned the non-custom hotkeys are sure salty about losing their "special status" and the efforts put into mastering it. but it's hella selfish to want to remove custom hotkeys when it is one of the biggest factors in drawing in new blood and former players. just so you can have your P for Probe, you are willing to destroy something that is arguably revitalizing the game? What great fans.
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wouldn't be a hotkey thread without Broyal derailing the entire thing after 5 pages of quality dicussion
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On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out
What? You honestly believe that changing hotkeys is going to all of a sudden improve a players macro? Sorry, if some player is always floating 2k minerals 10 minutes into the game, changing hotkeys isn't going to change that. It doesn't even make the game easier. I wouldn't be surprised if most Korean pro's don't change their hotkeys due to it being second nature. If Flash/Jaedong/effort/reach/etc changed their hotkeys, they aren't going to suddenly improve. They will be at the same exact skill level as before.
This elitism is just sad that you think it's going to change the game or make something imbalanced. "Not even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out." Are you serious? lol that is the stupidest thing I have ever read. The game is going to be played the exact same as before. The micro, macro is the same. I don't know why I replied to this, but this post is just an insane mindset and blows my mind.
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Won't the remapable hotkeys break the game? All of a sudden it's easy to vulture patrol micro while macroing at the same time. All of a sudden tank pushes got a lot easier. This really seems like something that should be left alone. I mean, Blizzard had the presence of mind to not allow control group and camera location hotkey remaps. Why didn't they see the damage in allowing any hotkey remaping?
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On July 28 2017 08:42 vonccc wrote: Won't the remapable hotkeys break the game? All of a sudden it's easy to vulture patrol micro while macroing at the same time. All of a sudden tank pushes got a lot easier. This really seems like something that should be left alone. I mean, Blizzard had the presence of mind to not allow control group and camera location hotkey remaps. Why didn't they see the damage in allowing any hotkey remaping? I think for the most part camera rekeybinds won't make a difference. It's just patrol that might be a balance concern.
I believe it's out, or soon to be ou in PCBangs, so we should get lots and lots of new if it really breaks the game before worldwide launch.
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On July 28 2017 08:42 vonccc wrote: Won't the remapable hotkeys break the game? All of a sudden it's easy to vulture patrol micro while macroing at the same time. All of a sudden tank pushes got a lot easier. This really seems like something that should be left alone. I mean, Blizzard had the presence of mind to not allow control group and camera location hotkey remaps. Why didn't they see the damage in allowing any hotkey remaping?
I think they did--hence it's optional to host non-custom hotkey games. They already foresee a balance issue with control groups and cameras, so they decided not to make them custom. This brings up an interesting point because one could argue that custom hotkeys don't make much of a difference, so why should control groups be any different? They're essentially just hotkeys to perform certain tasks, right? So yeah, blizz does care about this to a degree.
But there's something greater that I see in their decision to make them optional. There's a huge difference between "Eat this hamburger right now" and "Would you like a hamburger?" in how people receive it. Maybe blizz knows that custom hotkeys is the answer, but forcing it, or any other mechanical changes, on us would give it a bad rep. But by introducing it as an option, we're more likely to agree that's it's the better choice. I see you, blizz
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On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out And death to all heretics !!! Lol, what did I just read ? :D
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On July 28 2017 03:02 KrOjah wrote: Have any of the pros or good foreign players been publicly vocal on custom hotkeys directly impacting gameplay? By that i mean making certain builds/unit comps OP, or giving a certain race an advantage? I have not heard anything solid, so far I have only seen extreme elitism (coming from the not so elite) and and nothing concrete on issues that could arise. Maybe a lot of pros are actually happy about a relax on keyboard gymnastics They are the ones who play most afterall. I'd argue that they benefit T/Z more than P but that's about it. Moving Siege, Mines or Patrol especially seem much more amazing for those two than it does for P. It might be minor in practice though.
What I personally will miss most about rebindable hotkeys is that I always felt like having to actually move your hand across the keyboard is an integral part of what makes BW BW. Now that approach is just straight up inferior to grid based or similar approaches so it's prolly going to be seen less and less.
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On July 25 2017 18:20 pAnatiC wrote: not sure yet. Played thousand of games with GRID in SC2. Now played hundreds in Broodwar with the old layout and iam feeling mostly fine tbh. Feels strange to attack move with T again.
Guess iam chaning scanning to 'P' cause my orbitals are on 9 & 0. Stim & Siege & Irradiate needs a better button then Y (qwertz keyboard) Otherwise, hmm.. Not sure yet.
great idea changing scan hotkey, that shit is so annoying.
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On July 26 2017 03:53 Atom[Bomb] wrote: Playing zerg and I might change the patrol hotkey. Just for quick and easy patrol micro with mutas.
thanks for reminding me, i can have my nightmares now instead of having them when i play d players with perfect muta control.
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On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out
you can't be serious right now
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On July 28 2017 17:52 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out you can't be serious right now
No he's right, i mean i've played french version with the build key for Z was M (and M is even more on the right not on the bottom on our great azerty baguette keyboards)
Where is gonna be the skill now?
Seriously? I wish they reduce the unit limit to 10 for balancing this aspect.
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On July 28 2017 21:55 Kenny_mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 17:52 -Switch- wrote:On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out you can't be serious right now No he's right, i mean i've played french version with the build key for Z was M (and M is even more on the right not on the bottom on our great azerty baguette keyboards) Where is gonna be the skill now? Seriously? I wish they reduce the unit limit to 10 for balancing this aspect.
lol
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I was so happy that I could finally bind either attack or patrol to spacebar... oh the disappointment >.< I'll have to settle for operating M with my thumb I guess
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On July 28 2017 21:55 Kenny_mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 17:52 -Switch- wrote:On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out you can't be serious right now No he's right, i mean i've played french version with the build key for Z was M (and M is even more on the right not on the bottom on our great azerty baguette keyboards) Where is gonna be the skill now? Seriously? I wish they reduce the unit limit to 10 for balancing this aspect.
Where is the skill gonna be now? hahaha i hope you're S on Fish....
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I've mostly switched the far away commands to something more sensible, borrowing some of SC2's defaults that I got accustomed to, like probes, pylons, overlords. Didn't put much thought into really optimizing the layout for ergonomics or anything, I'm satisfied with most of the defaults and just shoving some of the far away keys to the left a bit. I like that custom keybinds have finally been added, I think most games benefit from having control customization, and it wasn't even a new concept when SC originally came out.
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On July 28 2017 17:52 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out you can't be serious right now Believe me, I argued for a long time with him. He is serious and he believes what he writes. He believes we live in a world with only US copies of Starcraft and only one keyboard layout in the entire world. I wont even go into the incredibly flawed analogy in his shitpost. He even has the freaking option of disabling custom hotkeys in lobbies, so I don't know what his problem is. He just wants to annoy and trigger everyone by calling 1.19 inferior. The truth is that the actual people who play this game are given a choice on how they want to play it. But I guess that doesn't suit him. He doesn't want to discuss that. He wants to move the focus of the discussion away from that because arguing to take away that free choice from the players is harder. To me he just seems like an angry kid who cant stand other people enjoying something.
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On July 29 2017 07:44 -Switch- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 21:55 Kenny_mk wrote:On July 28 2017 17:52 -Switch- wrote:On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out you can't be serious right now No he's right, i mean i've played french version with the build key for Z was M (and M is even more on the right not on the bottom on our great azerty baguette keyboards) Where is gonna be the skill now? Seriously? I wish they reduce the unit limit to 10 for balancing this aspect. Where is the skill gonna be now? hahaha i hope you're S on Fish....
With this hotkey setup i was B-, i must admit i've changed the build key to B & now i'm strangely A- /s
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custom hotkeys are not cheating, some people here are really delusional...
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I might put patrol from P to Q, but other than that I can't really see myself change anything. I quiet enjoy using the right side of the keyboard as well as the left side.
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Never used patrol with muta... vultures on the other hand benefits the most from patrol attack.
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million dollar question is how long til starleague with custom keys
and don't sit there and tell me that it ain't inevitable
maybe 2018 my guess
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On August 01 2017 14:28 mishimaBeef wrote: million dollar question is how long til starleague with custom keys
and don't sit there and tell me that it ain't inevitable
maybe 2018 my guess It might depend on the logistics for setting it up, such as transferring the custom hotkey profile from a personal account or client to whichever one the tournament is using. They would also need to add support for multiple hotkey profiles.
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What?! BW ELITIST is evolving!
CONGRATULATIONS! Your BW ELITIST evolved into 1.16.1 ELITIST!
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I'm planning to change patrol from 'p' to 'w', siege mode from 'o' to 'e', irradiate and mine daebak also come to mind.
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I made a MOBA style hotkey setup
Attack is still A etc. (except Patrol), but unit abilites are set to Q,W and E
Build and Production screens are in a Grid layout.
Should make it easier for new players who are used to games like Heroes of the Storm, LoL and DotA.
BTW, if someone thinks custom hotkeys make this game too easy, said person should stop being hippocratic and start playing Warcraft 1. Because Brood War already is easy as fuck compared to older RTS games with advanced stuff like control groups, production queues etc.
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So I played a little of BW 1.19 and stole a GRID hotkey layout from someone on TL. It works very well with one exception. When I put Zerg rally point on W there is a conflict with Terran and Protoss production buildings. So I cant have a GRID layout for all 3 races at the same time.
Does that mean I need a seperate hotkey file for every race or will they fix that at some point?
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If you guys change hotkeys ya'll not REAL brood war fans. In fact, Blizzard should've taken it a step further and force everyone to use a more fucked up layout with hotkeys on opposite sides of the keyboard, that'll be sure to separate the real superpros from the scrub noobs for maximum effect. Then get several wrist surgeries just to stay competitive for a couple more years then into early retirement, just like football. esports will be one step closer to real sports!
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So I played a little of BW 1.19 and stole a GRID hotkey layout from someone on TL. It works very well with one exception. When I put Zerg rally point on W there is a conflict with Terran and Protoss production buildings.
You cannot have separate hotkeys for rally for each of the races. Usually, people use right click for rally point anyway, so it shouldnt be a big deal i suppose!?
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On August 01 2017 22:33 Yrr wrote: So I played a little of BW 1.19 and stole a GRID hotkey layout from someone on TL. It works very well with one exception. When I put Zerg rally point on W there is a conflict with Terran and Protoss production buildings. So I cant have a GRID layout for all 3 races at the same time.
Does that mean I need a seperate hotkey file for every race or will they fix that at some point? why aren't you right clicking for your rally?
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I didnt know right click does the trick. Does it also work on the minimap?
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On August 01 2017 22:45 riotjune wrote: If you guys change hotkeys ya'll not REAL brood war fans. In fact, Blizzard should've taken it a step further and force everyone to use a more fucked up layout with hotkeys on opposite sides of the keyboard, that'll be sure to separate the real superpros from the scrub noobs for maximum effect. Then get several wrist surgeries just to stay competitive for a couple more years then into early retirement, just like football. esports will be one step closer to real sports!
100% agree. If you have an optical mouse you should be banned IMO.
On August 01 2017 23:03 Yrr wrote: I didnt know right click does the trick. Does it also work on the minimap?
Yes, absolutely
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On July 30 2017 01:22 Kenny_mk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 07:44 -Switch- wrote:On July 28 2017 21:55 Kenny_mk wrote:On July 28 2017 17:52 -Switch- wrote:On July 28 2017 02:20 Endymion wrote: so if blizzard added integrated map hacks for both players it would be okay because both players had the same advantage? the point is that it makes the game easier and makes 1.19 an inferior version of the game compared to 1.16.1 because there's less mechanical stress on each player for whatever race they play, making the game easier to play and shifting the focus away from mechanics to """"""game strategy"""""". as far as i'm concerned, 1.19 isn't even broodwar anymore until hotkey rebinding is patched out you can't be serious right now No he's right, i mean i've played french version with the build key for Z was M (and M is even more on the right not on the bottom on our great azerty baguette keyboards) Where is gonna be the skill now? Seriously? I wish they reduce the unit limit to 10 for balancing this aspect. Where is the skill gonna be now? hahaha i hope you're S on Fish.... With this hotkey setup i was B-, i must admit i've changed the build key to B & now i'm strangely A- /s
ahahahahahah
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On August 01 2017 20:54 shin ken wrote: I made a MOBA style hotkey setup
Attack is still A etc. (except Patrol), but unit abilites are set to Q,W and E
Build and Production screens are in a Grid layout.
Should make it easier for new players who are used to games like Heroes of the Storm, LoL and DotA.
BTW, if someone thinks custom hotkeys make this game too easy, said person should stop being hippocratic and start playing Warcraft 1. Because Brood War already is easy as fuck compared to older RTS games with advanced stuff like control groups, production queues etc.
I'm dead... lol
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For all the terrans out there, I changed following hotkeys and I'm really getting happy about it (although once in a while still go for old ones and it gives me nuts):
[P]atrol -> Q [M]ove -> W [H]old -> F (this one i could have left, lets see when I finally get used to it)
Siege/Unsiege -> T Lay mines -> T Irradiate -> T Unload -> T
There are some nice synergies so far, e.g:
- unload marines from bunker & stim -> double T - siege tanks & start putting mines -> TTTT - unload tank and siege it -> TT - unload vulture(s) and lay minies -> TT - microing wraiths and vultures is way easier with [M]ove at W and [P]atrol at Q
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