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May I remind you guys of Hiya vs Free on Triathlon.
Also congrats on winning against your friend
+ Show Spoiler +I know Hiya didn't win but he probably just went too far with the funky shit that game. And obviously this doesn't make Wraiths good units in PvT, but they can work occasionally.
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On January 31 2015 21:47 GreenWillow wrote: I've beaten him!!! Even twice!I 1st game I proxied citadel+archives (lol), and then overran him with dts, dragoons and a probe. I was so freaking nervous, forgot about everything and floated tons of resources. 2nd game he went wraithes, but I had obs by the time. I also decided to invest in corsairs (firstly to counter wraithes, but then I used them to d-web his sieged tanks, and this really worked!). Prevented him from expanding, gained huge economical advantage, and since I've already had stargates and a fleet beacon, I ended up making carriers. After that we had a rather standart game, which was kinda mb close, but I lost again. God, I am so happy, so happy
You have finally joined the dark side by proxying DTs, now become my apprentice and your training shall be complete!
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Dont listen to these guys saying that playing cheese/micro oriented builds won't improve you. Just make sure you try to improve all the time, and eventually you'll start macroing better and better. Imo playing cheesy early on might even be a quicker way to improvement than playing 'the standard macro game', because it puts more limitations on the strategies (so you dont have to know as much as when you go for a passive build), and you can probably play more shorter games this way while repeating the same builds - giving you experience with openings quicker than usual.
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United Kingdom12010 Posts
The way I found to improve the most was first get a fundamental build for each matchup. That took me to about D+ after about 4 years (albeit not playing) since I was D- and not able to get out. I got stuck in D+ for ages and ages until I decided at that point to just go have fun and try lots of builds. I think that's honestly the best way to improve. Get yourself a macro and a cheese build for each matchup (or multiple) and then just go practice mixing it up. If you lose you lose, every loss can be used as a thing to learn from. When you can mix up what builds you do each game, that's when you know you've improved as it shows you can be versatile.
Doing that took me last year to C- finally after many years haha.
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On March 12 2015 03:05 quirinus wrote: Dont listen to these guys saying that playing cheese/micro oriented builds won't improve you. Just make sure you try to improve all the time, and eventually you'll start macroing better and better. Imo playing cheesy early on might even be a quicker way to improvement than playing 'the standard macro game', because it puts more limitations on the strategies (so you dont have to know as much as when you go for a passive build), and you can probably play more shorter games this way while repeating the same builds - giving you experience with openings quicker than usual.
It's a dangerous path. I'd say go for standard macro builds until you're somewhat able to control the game and only then try random builds. Shouldn't take longer than ~200 games to get to a point you're somewhat fine with controls and had some experience with larger / late game movements. If you go for all-ins and cheese right away you might improve (and strategically faster than otherwise), but get stuck later on if your hotkey setup was wrong from the start.
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It's only fun when the game begins with a heavy micro play and eventually proceeds to a standart macro game. If you go to macro straight up, it's insanely boring, u just expand and maek gaetwais, and then expand again. That is, you do nothing interesting in the first few minutes of the game, and then just zzzddd 1a2a3a zzzddd, which is just not really interesting. But if the game is intense from the very beginning, and u don't float monies and and don't sit still, it rocks That is to say, <3 cheese, not all-ins though
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You can beat him couple of times if you go new cheese every game, but I'd rather advice you to write down a nigh on optimal build order for some all around build, then practice it 100 times. (There are good custom maps for this) after you have memorized the build order play enough games until you get hold on the multitasking part. At first your focus should be macro, most of the low level players simply die to enough stuff. Then focus on handling macro under pressure so you can micro at the same time. There are custom maps to help with these aspects of the game too.
It's a ton of work, but that's starcraft for you. Oh and after the training you should have enough skill level to learn new build orders with relative ease.
The standard builds are in the end better way to learn the game for majority of the players. Whilst cheesing improves you on micro, and to a degree with macro, you will have problems with your game sense in medium to long game. Ofc. Well done cheese build will eventually teach you a lot about the early game. (But without very solid execution your understanding of the early game will be warped by things happening at the wrong time).
So even if you choose to cheese, you probably should practice the build order for each cheese about hundred times.
Key to winning in starcraft is repetition of good builds. There at least used to be a huge difference between high master 4gate and platinum 4gate. (Hint one of them was faster and had more resources).
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You should have titled the thread: "How to beat a better player?". That would have been a good first step.
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Norway28263 Posts
I think your mindset is better than the "only play to improve" mindset. game is almost 17 years old. play in whichever fashion is most fun to you, chances are good that fun is the best you'll get out of any brood war mastery you accomplish at this point. I can totally understand the desire to just beat that bastard once, and besides, I often think the most fun games happen from desperate openings, not from doing the same thing all the time. granted, the worst games also happen from desperate openings, but doing crazy allins changes the game up quite a lot, and often makes it more of a stratactical rather than a mechanical competition.
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United Kingdom12010 Posts
On March 16 2015 02:23 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think your mindset is better than the "only play to improve" mindset. game is almost 17 years old. play in whichever fashion is most fun to you, chances are good that fun is the best you'll get out of any brood war mastery you accomplish at this point. I can totally understand the desire to just beat that bastard once, and besides, I often think the most fun games happen from desperate openings, not from doing the same thing all the time. granted, the worst games also happen from desperate openings, but doing crazy allins changes the game up quite a lot, and often makes it more of a stratactical rather than a mechanical competition.
How have I never heard of this amazing word until today?
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On March 13 2015 01:07 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 03:05 quirinus wrote: Dont listen to these guys saying that playing cheese/micro oriented builds won't improve you. Just make sure you try to improve all the time, and eventually you'll start macroing better and better. Imo playing cheesy early on might even be a quicker way to improvement than playing 'the standard macro game', because it puts more limitations on the strategies (so you dont have to know as much as when you go for a passive build), and you can probably play more shorter games this way while repeating the same builds - giving you experience with openings quicker than usual. It's a dangerous path. I'd say go for standard macro builds until you're somewhat able to control the game and only then try random builds. Shouldn't take longer than ~200 games to get to a point you're somewhat fine with controls and had some experience with larger / late game movements. If you go for all-ins and cheese right away you might improve (and strategically faster than otherwise), but get stuck later on if your hotkey setup was wrong from the start.
Man, this happened to me a long time ago. I had the incorrect hotkeys even when I thought I was getting better and better, yet my performance seemed subpar compared to any korean.
I was loosing TvP vs another friend for around 2 months, playing 3-5 games each day (won 1 game in that time, just one). Then I said to myself, I have to be doing something wrong, lets watch Flash, mimic his build, his hotkeys, his movements, everything that I could identify in a replay and in BWchart.
I even practiced the build offline for 3 days to have it in my mechanical system. Then the game starts: Colosseum, TvP. With my first move out, he just... died. Not only was I up in supply, upgrades and tech in relation to my friend, I lost 15 supply and killed all his army, not to mention that after the battle my supply was higher than when the battle started.
That was the time that I thought "Ok, im quiting broodwar for at least a full year, and when I come back, I will start over everything, but do it as close as possible to how pros do it".
Im still waiting for the year to finish. The date: May 7th, 2015. (You cant even begin to imagine how much it burns me not to play any BW till then).
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Norway28263 Posts
On March 17 2015 18:07 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 02:23 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think your mindset is better than the "only play to improve" mindset. game is almost 17 years old. play in whichever fashion is most fun to you, chances are good that fun is the best you'll get out of any brood war mastery you accomplish at this point. I can totally understand the desire to just beat that bastard once, and besides, I often think the most fun games happen from desperate openings, not from doing the same thing all the time. granted, the worst games also happen from desperate openings, but doing crazy allins changes the game up quite a lot, and often makes it more of a stratactical rather than a mechanical competition. How have I never heard of this amazing word until today?
I am master of portmanteaus
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