|
POLAND vs RUSSIA Sunday, Sep 04 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Introduction
Not much to say... Actually the best skilled and active Nations in the world after Korea and China. Poland finished the regular season with a little advantage, but with the same stats of Russia, 12 wins and 1 lose.
The fair final for this first Nation League season!
Schedule
Poland vs Russia — Sunday 04.09.2016, 19:00 CESTThe cast will begin one hour after the tournament start - 20:00 CEST Format
The core format remains untouched for playoffs, however there’s a tweak or two. In order to keep the schedule intact and provide a better viewing experience, there will be no wildcards, thus NO POSTPONED matches for the playoffs. That means, if a team fails to provide enough players, it will be penalized with a tech loss for unplayed matches. For the playoffs the rules are a bit restricted: starting maps cannot be changed in agreement and categorically no double maps for the same match (you must change maps at every game). Replays not submitted to admins will cancel the game played without appeal!
Lineups
POLAND vs RUSSIA 1v1 Bonyth[PL] vs Dewalt[RU] [PL]trutacz vs Tama[Ru] Koget[PL] vs lancer[RU] Julian[PL] vs Djem5[RU] 2v2 [PL]trutacz + Johnek[PL] vs Djem5[RU] + Tokyoa[RU]
Predictions
Poll: Winner?Poland (17) 65% Russia (9) 35% 26 total votes Your vote: Winner? (Vote): Poland (Vote): Russia
Results $530 $318
POLAND vs RUSSIA Overall+ Show Spoiler + 4-1 1v1+ Show Spoiler + Bonyth[PL] 2-0 Dewalt[RU] [PL]trutacz 2-0 Tama[RU] Koget[PL] 2-1 lancer[RU] Julian[PL] 2-0 Djem5[RU] 2v2+ Show Spoiler + [PL]trutacz + Johnek[PL] 0-2 Djem5[RU] + Tokyoa[RU] Broadcast
By CatsPaw and eOnzErg at ICCup BW TV Sunday 20:00 CEST VOD
|
Hyped for this!
|
i predict a 3-2 either way, gonna be close!
|
Russian Federation376 Posts
Russia FTW, my prediction 3-2 lancerx > radek 2-0, djem5 > mca64 2-0, trutacz > funny 2-1, flisk > julia 2-1, megash+bonus > tresha+zb 2-1.
|
On September 03 2016 17:45 idegelchik wrote:Russia FTW, my prediction 3-2 lancerx > radek 2-0, djem5 > mca64 2-0, trutacz > funny 2-1, flisk > julia 2-1, megash+bonus > tresha+zb 2-1.
lolz nice lineup of Poland ; d
|
Yeah, but he should've put Julia on my place, so it actually could be verified truth.
|
Finals start in ~ 30 minutes, get ready!
|
I wonder why there are so many protoss for russia
|
On September 05 2016 02:53 duke91 wrote: I wonder why there are so many protoss for russia Yeah, where did the terrans go?
|
On September 05 2016 03:43 tanngard wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2016 02:53 duke91 wrote: I wonder why there are so many protoss for russia Yeah, where did the terrans go?
to ASL (;
|
Nice to see a game on Outsider
|
|
good games! good tournament! ggs!
|
How the heck did trutacs+johnek lose the 2v2 games, I was about to skip them because I assumed they were easy wins for poland anyway ggs, well done poland
|
Statistics of the Polish Team:
Team Matches: + Show Spoiler +League: PL 5-0 Peru PL 5-0 Eastern Team PL 4-1 Chile PL 4-1 Wolrd Union PL 4-1 Russia PL 5-0 Canada PL 4-1 Germany PL 3-2 Peru PL 3-2 Eastern Team PL 4-1 Germany PL 5-0 Canada PL 2-3 Russia (Loss) PL 4-1 World Union PL 3-0 Russia-B
Play-Offs: PL-Russia 4:1 PL-Russia 4:1
Individual 1v1 matches: + Show Spoiler +Bonyth - + Show Spoiler +13-0 in the league phase, 2-0 in the play-off phase
2-0 vs Handy[PE] 2-0 vs sur98[ET] 2-0 vs mario[CL] 2-1 vs eonzerg[WU] 2-0 vs lancer[RU] 2-1 vs Cryoc[DE] 2-1 vs Handy[PE] 2-0 vs Lure[ET] 2-0 vs teh[DE] 2-0 vs Dragon[CA] 2-1 vs Djem5[RU] 2-0 vs non[WU] w/o vs RU-B
play-off: 2-0 vs lancer[RU] 2-0 vs Dewalt[RU] Julian - + Show Spoiler +12-0 league, 2-0 in play-off
2-1 vs DienMax[PE] 2-0 vs Lure[ET] 2-0 vs babo[CL] 2-1 vs Dewalt[RU] 2-0 vs gagrush[CA] 2-0 vs vanatir[DE] 2-0 vs leo[PE] 2-0 vs MX[ET] 2-0 vs kab[DE] 2-0 vs aot[CA] 2-1 vs Ace[WU] 2-1 vs dreamer[RU-B]
play-off 2-1 vs Dewalt[RU] 2-0 vs djem5[RU] Koget - + Show Spoiler +6-1 league, 2-0 in play-off
2-1 vs Dyna[PE] 2-0 vs ytong[ET] 2-0 vs quantel[WU] 2-0 vs funny[RU] 2-0 vs Dragon[CA] 1-2 vs Cryoc[DE] 2-0 vs chrh[RU-B]
play-off 2-0 vs Djem5[RU] 2-1 vs lancer[RU] Trutacz - + Show Spoiler +4-1 league, 1-0 in play-off
2-0 vs non[WU] 2-0 vs assault[CA] 1-2 vs Werdi[RU] 2-0 vs infected[WU] 2-1 vs regg[RU-B]
play-off 2-0 vs tama Rasowy - + Show Spoiler +6-4 league, 0-1 w play-off
2-0 vs tech[CL] 0-2 vs infected[WU] 2-1 vs gargoyle[RU], w/o vs [CA] 1-2 vs remag[DE] 1-2 vs ytong[ET] 2-0 vs cele[DE] 2-0 vs flying[CA] 2-0 vs lancer[RU]
play-off 1-2 vs tama[RU] Cheetech - + Show Spoiler +4-3 league
2-1 vs Kyct[ET] 2-1 vs kab[DE] 2-0 vs greet[PE] 1-2 vs handren[ET] 2-0 vs castle[CA] 0-2 vs tama[RU] 0-2 vs eonzerg[WU] Predator - + Show Spoiler +2-0 league
2-0 vs Castro[PE] 2-0 vs iwaniox[CL]
All 2v2 matches: + Show Spoiler + Bonyth + PNG 2-0 Handy + yop [PE] Bonyth + Bonus 2-1 Ytong + Lure [ET] Bonyth + Bonus 1-2 babo + mario [CL] Johnek + Trutacz 2-1 vs infected + quantel [WU] Johnek + Trutacz w/o vs [CA] Johnek + Bonyth 2-1 vs vanatir + invasion [DE] Kingpin + Bonyth 1-2 vs handy + yop [PE] Johnek + Trutacz 2-0 vs ytong + handren [ET] Bonyth + PNG 2-0 vs vanatir + invasion [DE] Johnek + Trutacz 2-0 vs castle + flying [CA] Johnek + Trutacz 1-2 vs tokyoa + flisk [RU] Bonyth + Trutacz 2-1 vs octzerg + quantel [WU]
Play-offs: Johnek + Trutacz 2-1 vs tokyoa + flisk [RU] Johnek + Trutacz 0-2 vs tokyoa + djem5 [RU]
Compiled by Pony[pl], edited by me.
|
On September 05 2016 09:56 13Julia wrote:Statistics of the Polish Team:Team Matches:+ Show Spoiler +League: PL 5-0 Peru PL 5-0 Eastern Team PL 4-1 Chile PL 4-1 Wolrd Union PL 4-1 Russia PL 5-0 Canada PL 4-1 Germany PL 3-2 Peru PL 3-2 Eastern Team PL 4-1 Germany PL 5-0 Canada PL 2-3 Russia (Loss) PL 4-1 World Union PL 3-0 Russia-B
Play-Offs: PL-Russia 4:1 PL-Russia 4:1 Individual 1v1 matches:+ Show Spoiler +Bonyth - + Show Spoiler +13-0 in the league phase, 2-0 in the play-off phase
2-0 vs Handy[PE] 2-0 vs sur98[ET] 2-0 vs mario[CL] 2-1 vs eonzerg[WU] 2-0 vs lancer[RU] 2-1 vs Cryoc[DE] 2-1 vs Handy[PE] 2-0 vs Lure[ET] 2-0 vs teh[DE] 2-0 vs Dragon[CA] 2-1 vs Djem5[RU] 2-0 vs non[WU] w/o vs RU-B
play-off: 2-0 vs lancer[RU] 2-0 vs Dewalt[RU] Julian - + Show Spoiler +12-0 league, 2-0 in play-off
2-1 vs DienMax[PE] 2-0 vs Lure[ET] 2-0 vs babo[CL] 2-1 vs Dewalt[RU] 2-0 vs gagrush[CA] 2-0 vs vanatir[DE] 2-0 vs leo[PE] 2-0 vs MX[ET] 2-0 vs kab[DE] 2-0 vs aot[CA] 2-1 vs Ace[WU] 2-1 vs dreamer[RU-B]
play-off 2-1 vs Dewalt[RU] 2-0 vs djem5[RU] Koget - + Show Spoiler +6-1 league, 2-0 in play-off
2-1 vs Dyna[PE] 2-0 vs ytong[ET] 2-0 vs quantel[WU] 2-0 vs funny[RU] 2-0 vs Dragon[CA] 1-2 vs Cryoc[DE] 2-0 vs chrh[RU-B]
play-off 2-0 vs Djem5[RU] 2-1 vs lancer[RU] Trutacz - + Show Spoiler +4-1 league, 1-0 in play-off
2-0 vs non[WU] 2-0 vs assault[CA] 1-2 vs Werdi[RU] 2-0 vs infected[WU] 2-1 vs regg[RU-B]
play-off 2-0 vs tama Rasowy - + Show Spoiler +6-4 league, 0-1 w play-off
2-0 vs tech[CL] 0-2 vs infected[WU] 2-1 vs gargoyle[RU], w/o vs [CA] 1-2 vs remag[DE] 1-2 vs ytong[ET] 2-0 vs cele[DE] 2-0 vs flying[CA] 2-0 vs lancer[RU]
play-off 1-2 vs tama[RU] Cheetech - + Show Spoiler +4-3 league
2-1 vs Kyct[ET] 2-1 vs kab[DE] 2-0 vs greet[PE] 1-2 vs handren[ET] 2-0 vs castle[CA] 0-2 vs tama[RU] 0-2 vs eonzerg[WU] Predator - + Show Spoiler +2-0 league
2-0 vs Castro[PE] 2-0 vs iwaniox[CL] All 2v2 matches:+ Show Spoiler + Bonyth + PNG 2-0 Handy + yop [PE] Bonyth + Bonus 2-1 Ytong + Lure [ET] Bonyth + Bonus 1-2 babo + mario [CL] Johnek + Trutacz 2-1 vs infected + quantel [WU] Johnek + Trutacz w/o vs [CA] Johnek + Bonyth 2-1 vs vanatir + invasion [DE] Kingpin + Bonyth 1-2 vs handy + yop [PE] Johnek + Trutacz 2-0 vs ytong + handren [ET] Bonyth + PNG 2-0 vs vanatir + invasion [DE] Johnek + Trutacz 2-0 vs castle + flying [CA] Johnek + Trutacz 1-2 vs tokyoa + flisk [RU] Bonyth + Trutacz 2-1 vs octzerg + quantel [WU]
Play-offs: Johnek + Trutacz 2-1 vs tokyoa + flisk [RU] Johnek + Trutacz 0-2 vs tokyoa + djem5 [RU]
Compiled by Pony[pl], edited by me.
thx to Pony and Julia. Impressive statistics from the winning teams PoV. Overall, Poland had no match this season and did win will deserved! GG WP
|
Thanks for the league, was fun, we had a very strong 5 player main lineup all tourney long.
I know many people were asking whether there would be bm during finals, I simply forgot and concentrated on the game, I had prepared specific bm to use, but forgot to bm my opponent, sorry
|
Russian Federation376 Posts
lucky poland, but gratz
|
We'd prefer to send prizes to leaders, then they will spread to team members independently. If internal players have negative points on this, talk pls.
|
Bonyth deals with the $ on the Polish side and we're cool with it.
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
Not a lot of posts here but the viewership for the finals was great. Thanks for hosting this iccup!
|
On September 06 2016 06:43 BisuDagger wrote: Not a lot of posts here but the viewership for the finals was great. Thanks for hosting this iccup!
thx for your support.
We'll be back. Soon. Very Soon.
|
Cele i have a question. Have you guys been thiinking about organizing an other even instead of nation wars? I think that for the current state of foreign bw it's not the best kind of tournament because we have 2 very good teams Poland and Russia and rest is not really at this level, also many walkovers, maybe we should just ask community, viewers, players what we really need?
|
Just a regular 1v1 tournament is what appeals to me with some kind of "Kespa" ranking for everyone depending on how well you perform.
|
On September 07 2016 07:26 trutaCz wrote: Cele i have a question. Have you guys been thiinking about organizing an other even instead of nation wars? I think that for the current state of foreign bw it's not the best kind of tournament because we have 2 very good teams Poland and Russia and rest is not really at this level, also many walkovers, maybe we should just ask community, viewers, players what we really need? I agree, this tournament doesn't tell much about a country's skill, way too many walkovers. For example my country finished in like last place even though we have amazing players.. if our top players (draw/dragon/cute/bizzy/LD/munkie etc) always showed up I'm sure we can beat poland/russia. I think the normal tournies like TLS or defiler are best.
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
On September 07 2016 07:26 trutaCz wrote: Cele i have a question. Have you guys been thiinking about organizing an other even instead of nation wars? I think that for the current state of foreign bw it's not the best kind of tournament because we have 2 very good teams Poland and Russia and rest is not really at this level, also many walkovers, maybe we should just ask community, viewers, players what we really need? What if the Gambit cup was brought back?
|
then you would have eywa grats bisudagger grats
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
On September 08 2016 02:56 GeckoXp wrote: then you would have eywa grats bisudagger grats Listen Gecko, I was in my Liquibet prime back when the GambitCup was around. We all have to make sacrifices for my greater good.
|
On September 07 2016 10:26 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 07:26 trutaCz wrote: Cele i have a question. Have you guys been thiinking about organizing an other even instead of nation wars? I think that for the current state of foreign bw it's not the best kind of tournament because we have 2 very good teams Poland and Russia and rest is not really at this level, also many walkovers, maybe we should just ask community, viewers, players what we really need? I agree, this tournament doesn't tell much about a country's skill, way too many walkovers. For example my country finished in like last place even though we have amazing players.. if our top players (draw/dragon/cute/bizzy/LD/munkie etc) always showed up I'm sure we can beat poland/russia. I think the normal tournies like TLS or defiler are best. First thing that comes to my mind as solution is allkill format. But that has to be discussed.
|
Nation League was born for the incoming requests about ClanLeague (which actually is impossible to revive in a 10 teams format). Probably the first two Nations are overskilled, true, but doesn't mean others hadn't fun playing. Your ideas are all good, but it's something different from what we were asked for.
|
On September 08 2016 03:06 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 02:56 GeckoXp wrote: then you would have eywa grats bisudagger grats Listen Gecko, I was in my Liquibet prime back when the GambitCup was around. We all have to make sacrifices for my greater good.
if some people wouldnt ban other people, some people would make their point by posting memes about this situation.
EEE 2016 musnt happen. not here, not in prague, not anywhere.
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
On September 08 2016 05:07 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 03:06 BisuDagger wrote:On September 08 2016 02:56 GeckoXp wrote: then you would have eywa grats bisudagger grats Listen Gecko, I was in my Liquibet prime back when the GambitCup was around. We all have to make sacrifices for my greater good. if some people wouldnt ban other people, some people would make their point by posting memes about this situation. EEE 2016 musnt happen. not here, not in prague, not anywhere. Go for it. I'll take the heat on this next meme. *braces himself*
|
TLS legacy cups were a waste of potential they had. Nation wars are going to be the waste of potential too. Lets bring the facts: -We have a lot of teams, and only two of them really fight for the win -We have a lot or walkovers, Nation teams disbanding after a few matches due to bad results, or players not really caring of it -We have a low viewership - I heard from people that they dont care about nations at all and they dont follow the event -The rules of current map per week kills strategical aspect of predicting which player will Play which map, -Ace match if there is a draw, that was always exciting for the viewers, because basicly that was fight between two very good players. -Bo1 for team leagues seems to be better idea beacuse in bo1 on specific map, weaker player can bring some special strategy and take out the better player -Coverage for the event, liquipedia page, stats per players,races,maps,rankings,interviews
Probably many many more which i forgot at the moment, these are my thoughts about events organized in past months. I have the feeling the events are organized without passion or knowledge about how it should like to provide a success. It also may be lack of people to organize(I never seen a topic created by organizers where they look for help to improve quality of event....), but when i see meanhwile they do coverage about korean scene and never care about foreign scene, it simply pisses me off.
You can hate eywa and game for what they did, but they also hosted the best bw events foreign bw had after sc2 release. (Isl + gambit)
Written on phone so here might be some word mistakes.
|
On September 08 2016 11:13 trutaCz wrote: It also may be lack of people to organize(I never seen a topic created by organizers where they look for help to improve quality of event....)
http://iccup.com/en/community/thread/840789.html
But overall, Nation League wasnt that bad as u claim it to be. If anything, certain players from certain nations just weren't motivated enough to come play NL on a weekly basis and I think that was the biggest issue. Random players = random results.
|
This is not a teamliquid event,so dont expect to have coverage from tl team,they re proly busy with korean coverage etc,or playing in batteryshield,if the event is not from tl dont expect to see even a post from them like they do in their coverages,i think the viewer rate was decent for this event,even if the thread was empty,and i think this part was our fault,this was a league created for us the players afterall it was our part to show more love and support,there not many people to help,i wish more top players helped about this.i guess an all kill format could be interesting for the league.is not Poland or Russia fault to have so many good playrers,i think the event had a good sucess.
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
On September 08 2016 15:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: This is not a teamliquid event,so dont expect to have coverage from tl team,they re proly busy with korean coverage etc,or playing in batteryshield,if the event is not from tl dont expect to see even a post from them like they do in their coverages,i think the viewer rate was decent for this event,even if the thread was empty,and i think this part was our fault,this was a league created for us the players afterall it was our part to show more love and support,there not many people to help,i wish more top players helped about this.i guess an all kill format could be interesting for the league.is not Poland or Russia fault to have so many good playrers,i think the event had a good sucess. I really wish i had time for foreign events, but korean timed events work better since they occur in the early morning. As far as coverage, our current staff barely has the bandwidth for korean events. It takes a lot of effort for us to get them done. Maybe we can find the most important things staff can help with and at least accomplish that. What do you want most from us? Community posts for the starts of big foreign tournys, a finals writeup, something else?
|
My two cents on this: I think it would be great to know both the map your opponent in advance (just like in pl) and bo1. It would be more fun for the viewers, probably it would produce more exciting and higher quality games. And of course less time, so casters could cover more nw-s. The second round as an all-kill format would be great. edit: I just now read that these were alrady proposed, great!
|
On September 08 2016 17:01 noname_ wrote: My two cents on this: I think it would be great to know both the map your opponent in advance (just like in pl) I tried to implement this into rules in the previous nationwars tournament but thats imposible, players are not that serious and lineups are delayed even after the start of the tour, since nobody knows who will show up.
|
I never said that event itself was bad, i just mentioned what can be done to improve and make the final result better. Events are not ment to be just for players, its for the viewers too, is 200ppl a good number for the top foreigner event? All kill format means 'good bye' to the medium and less skilled players. If we gonna say all was very good and fine, we never gonna go forward.
|
On September 08 2016 16:49 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 15:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: This is not a teamliquid event,so dont expect to have coverage from tl team,they re proly busy with korean coverage etc,or playing in batteryshield,if the event is not from tl dont expect to see even a post from them like they do in their coverages,i think the viewer rate was decent for this event,even if the thread was empty,and i think this part was our fault,this was a league created for us the players afterall it was our part to show more love and support,there not many people to help,i wish more top players helped about this.i guess an all kill format could be interesting for the league.is not Poland or Russia fault to have so many good playrers,i think the event had a good sucess. I really wish i had time for foreign events, but korean timed events work better since they occur in the early morning. As far as coverage, our current staff barely has the bandwidth for korean events. It takes a lot of effort for us to get them done. Maybe we can find the most important things staff can help with and at least accomplish that. What do you want most from us? Community posts for the starts of big foreign tournys, a finals writeup, something else? I understand and find totally fine people priorities.And i can understand our event or leagues are not so skilled compared to the korean,that being said there are lot of skilled writers on tl that atleast from time to time could do a write up to some of our events,and maybe checking some of the defiler tourneys.but it wasnt me trying to blame tl,i was just pointing the situation and what the main priority is. I just love bw in general no matter if they are playing from Peru chile australia or Congo :d
|
On September 08 2016 18:26 trutaCz wrote: I never said that event itself was bad, i just mentioned what can be done to improve and make the final result better. Events are not ment to be just for players, its for the viewers too, is 200ppl a good number for the top foreigner event? All kill format means 'good bye' to the medium and less skilled players. If we gonna say all was very good and fine, we never gonna go forward. No one said this event is perfect but this one was better than the early one.but the main problem here is activity,even if we switch the format to a team league i doubt the balance will be better,just cuz we re suffering by activity,maybe changing the format for bo1 51v1 removing 2v2 and adding 3v3 can make this more fun ? Idk ,interviews articles ,im pretty sure any of us could take the iniative and do it,and the thing is ,there are no many organizers,there are no many casters,and there are no many players to compete in a 8-10 team league.
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
On September 08 2016 19:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 16:49 BisuDagger wrote:On September 08 2016 15:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: This is not a teamliquid event,so dont expect to have coverage from tl team,they re proly busy with korean coverage etc,or playing in batteryshield,if the event is not from tl dont expect to see even a post from them like they do in their coverages,i think the viewer rate was decent for this event,even if the thread was empty,and i think this part was our fault,this was a league created for us the players afterall it was our part to show more love and support,there not many people to help,i wish more top players helped about this.i guess an all kill format could be interesting for the league.is not Poland or Russia fault to have so many good playrers,i think the event had a good sucess. I really wish i had time for foreign events, but korean timed events work better since they occur in the early morning. As far as coverage, our current staff barely has the bandwidth for korean events. It takes a lot of effort for us to get them done. Maybe we can find the most important things staff can help with and at least accomplish that. What do you want most from us? Community posts for the starts of big foreign tournys, a finals writeup, something else? I understand and find totally fine people priorities.And i can understand our event or leagues are not so skilled compared to the korean,that being said there are lot of skilled writers on tl that atleast from time to time could do a write up to some of our events,and maybe checking some of the defiler tourneys.but it wasnt me trying to blame tl,i was just pointing the situation and what the main priority is. I just love bw in general no matter if they are playing from Peru chile australia or Congo :d I feel you. I didn't think you were playing the blame game. I do think it helps if that we identify the biggest roles TL staff can play so we are more engaged in the foreign community.
|
I agree with Trutacz, that a bo1 style would be much better. If there will be another Teamleague (Nation League or Clanleague), I think the format of SBWI Teamleague is the best. The format was 6 1v1 à bo1 + 1v1 Ace match played on 7 different maps. Though it is probably better to reduce it to 4 1v1s with Ace match due to lower activity. This offers a good variety for viewers and better games due to a better potential for preparation against a specific opponent.
|
Ace match cannot be played using ICC grids, if you remember that was our beginning format but we had to change at last minute with another normal 1v1.
|
If that is the only problem, the 2v2 slot could just be misused for the ace match, couldn't it? The first player of each team would be the actual player and the second one would just be a dummy player. In Nation League there even was already one in each team to prevent disbanding the teams. You can also choose any player in the 2v2 so it would totally work as ace match replacement. A better approach would be to just change the clan league system, but I guess that doesn't happen.
|
and the ace match can be played vs the same player ?
|
On September 08 2016 11:13 trutaCz wrote: TLS legacy cups were a waste of potential they had. Nation wars are going to be the waste of potential too. Lets bring the facts: -We have a lot of teams, and only two of them really fight for the win -We have a lot or walkovers, Nation teams disbanding after a few matches due to bad results, or players not really caring of it -We have a low viewership - I heard from people that they dont care about nations at all and they dont follow the event -The rules of current map per week kills strategical aspect of predicting which player will Play which map, -Ace match if there is a draw, that was always exciting for the viewers, because basicly that was fight between two very good players. -Bo1 for team leagues seems to be better idea beacuse in bo1 on specific map, weaker player can bring some special strategy and take out the better player -Coverage for the event, liquipedia page, stats per players,races,maps,rankings,interviews
Probably many many more which i forgot at the moment, these are my thoughts about events organized in past months. I have the feeling the events are organized without passion or knowledge about how it should like to provide a success. It also may be lack of people to organize(I never seen a topic created by organizers where they look for help to improve quality of event....)
If you are really saying we, the organizers, weren't motivated for this event, im a frustrated tbh. I spent almost every Sunday on it, countless hours finding sponsors, setting up rules, creating banners, etc etc.
But you are raising good points, so i'd like to adress them:
@Coverage: The main reason our coverage wasn't better, is that we don't have the personnel. I have limited skills( as a non native english) and time to write fancy articles and in fact we didn't have somebody on ICCup Staff who was very qualified for it apart from xkcd. Further, we need a TL Admin to make the graphic changes with CSS to the article's to design them graphically in an appealing fashion. As BD said, TL has very limited resources for coverage atm as well.
I did ask quite a bit of people for it, but not in public, that's why you didn't see anything. I contacted people who i know to have the ability to write good coverage and with some experience in it. Perhaps i could've made an open appeal on TL.
@Ace Match: As Face said, it's technically not possible. The dev team doesn't give unlimited support to the needs of the ICC section too..
@Liquipedia Page: i asked a couple of known LP editors about it, they offered me to check on my progress with the page. But then it takes me half an hour to create a single table, having no idea about the code, so i didn't get far.
@Balance: True Poland and Russia are very dominant. I think most of the other teams enjoyed it nonetheless, but really this is a thing we can't fix. We could invite an korean amateur team for instance or a chinese one, but we thought it to be no good idea. Korean team would probably destroy everyone else and China has to big lag problems.
@ starting maps: good point, we'll think about it.
@Teams disbanding, players not caring etc: That's the biggest issue in my opinion. TLS Champs suffered from it too and many other events did in the past. But we can only provide the frame for the event, players need to motivate themselves and take it serious.
im my perspective, there were two major issues which both come down to the overall state of foreign BW atm: Lack of people to do staff work for the event and lack of player dedication. Both comes down to the foreign scene being very small. You notice how few people play actively these days, same is true for people who spent their free time organizing events for this Game and in the end limits what i can achieve in terms of coverage, great teams and big prize money.
Kind regards (;
|
On September 09 2016 02:08 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 11:13 trutaCz wrote: TLS legacy cups were a waste of potential they had. Nation wars are going to be the waste of potential too. Lets bring the facts: -We have a lot of teams, and only two of them really fight for the win -We have a lot or walkovers, Nation teams disbanding after a few matches due to bad results, or players not really caring of it -We have a low viewership - I heard from people that they dont care about nations at all and they dont follow the event -The rules of current map per week kills strategical aspect of predicting which player will Play which map, -Ace match if there is a draw, that was always exciting for the viewers, because basicly that was fight between two very good players. -Bo1 for team leagues seems to be better idea beacuse in bo1 on specific map, weaker player can bring some special strategy and take out the better player -Coverage for the event, liquipedia page, stats per players,races,maps,rankings,interviews
Probably many many more which i forgot at the moment, these are my thoughts about events organized in past months. I have the feeling the events are organized without passion or knowledge about how it should like to provide a success. It also may be lack of people to organize(I never seen a topic created by organizers where they look for help to improve quality of event....) If you are really saying we, the organizers, weren't motivated for this event, im a frustrated tbh. I spent almost every Sunday on it, countless hours finding sponsors, setting up rules, creating banners, etc etc. But you are raising good points, so i'd like to adress them: @Coverage: The main reason our coverage wasn't better, is that we don't have the personnel. I have limited skills( as a non native english) and time to write fancy articles and in fact we didn't have somebody on ICCup Staff who was very qualified for it apart from xkcd. Further, we need a TL Admin to make the graphic changes with CSS to the article's to design them graphically in an appealing fashion. As BD said, TL has very limited resources for coverage atm as well. I did ask quite a bit of people for it, but not in public, that's why you didn't see anything. I contacted people who i know to have the ability to write good coverage and with some experience in it. Perhaps i could've made an open appeal on TL. @Ace Match: As Face said, it's technically not possible. The dev team doesn't give unlimited support to the needs of the ICC section too.. @Liquipedia Page: i asked a couple of known LP editors about it, they offered me to check on my progress with the page. But then it takes me half an hour to create a single table, having no idea about the code, so i didn't get far. @Balance: True Poland and Russia are very dominant. I think most of the other teams enjoyed it nonetheless, but really this is a thing we can't fix. We could invite an korean amateur team for instance or a chinese one, but we thought it to be no good idea. Korean team would probably destroy everyone else and China has to big lag problems. @ starting maps: good point, we'll think about it. @Teams disbanding, players not caring etc: That's the biggest issue in my opinion. TLS Champs suffered from it too and many other events did in the past. But we can only provide the frame for the event, players need to motivate themselves and take it serious. im my perspective, there were two major issues which both come down to the overall state of foreign BW atm: Lack of people to do staff work for the event and lack of player dedication. Both comes down to the foreign scene being very small. You notice how few people play actively these days, same is true for people who spent their free time organizing events for this Game and in the end limits what i can achieve in terms of coverage, great teams and big prize money. Kind regards (;
@Coverage Why not ask in public? You guys probably contacted a lot of ppl, but if you do it in public also maybe you can find people
@Ace Match You can use 3rd party site to make ace match possible.(You dont even need any site tbh), unless you just want to host it everything on iccup site.
@Balance Thats why i suggested transforming it into teams eague wih less teams, and better spread of players.
|
bo3 is less random in general, idk why make events more random for the lulz -_-
An important aspect is the hype, the casters, how you cast, etc - this is big.
Wasn't bad event, lot's of games played, can't say the material is bad, but you can always sell it a bit better if you want.
|
One of the things that has to go imo is the usage of observer mode all the time. I don't want to see supplies and whatnot hogging the screen (it's not pleasing to the eyes).
|
I really like to see drone count during games, so casters might sometimes give a hint about that if you drop obs mode. Its okay for me ^^
Everyones different opinions, chaos here ;-)
|
On September 09 2016 02:27 trutaCz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 02:08 Cele wrote:On September 08 2016 11:13 trutaCz wrote: TLS legacy cups were a waste of potential they had. Nation wars are going to be the waste of potential too. Lets bring the facts: -We have a lot of teams, and only two of them really fight for the win -We have a lot or walkovers, Nation teams disbanding after a few matches due to bad results, or players not really caring of it -We have a low viewership - I heard from people that they dont care about nations at all and they dont follow the event -The rules of current map per week kills strategical aspect of predicting which player will Play which map, -Ace match if there is a draw, that was always exciting for the viewers, because basicly that was fight between two very good players. -Bo1 for team leagues seems to be better idea beacuse in bo1 on specific map, weaker player can bring some special strategy and take out the better player -Coverage for the event, liquipedia page, stats per players,races,maps,rankings,interviews
Probably many many more which i forgot at the moment, these are my thoughts about events organized in past months. I have the feeling the events are organized without passion or knowledge about how it should like to provide a success. It also may be lack of people to organize(I never seen a topic created by organizers where they look for help to improve quality of event....) If you are really saying we, the organizers, weren't motivated for this event, im a frustrated tbh. I spent almost every Sunday on it, countless hours finding sponsors, setting up rules, creating banners, etc etc. But you are raising good points, so i'd like to adress them: @Coverage: The main reason our coverage wasn't better, is that we don't have the personnel. I have limited skills( as a non native english) and time to write fancy articles and in fact we didn't have somebody on ICCup Staff who was very qualified for it apart from xkcd. Further, we need a TL Admin to make the graphic changes with CSS to the article's to design them graphically in an appealing fashion. As BD said, TL has very limited resources for coverage atm as well. I did ask quite a bit of people for it, but not in public, that's why you didn't see anything. I contacted people who i know to have the ability to write good coverage and with some experience in it. Perhaps i could've made an open appeal on TL. @Ace Match: As Face said, it's technically not possible. The dev team doesn't give unlimited support to the needs of the ICC section too.. @Liquipedia Page: i asked a couple of known LP editors about it, they offered me to check on my progress with the page. But then it takes me half an hour to create a single table, having no idea about the code, so i didn't get far. @Balance: True Poland and Russia are very dominant. I think most of the other teams enjoyed it nonetheless, but really this is a thing we can't fix. We could invite an korean amateur team for instance or a chinese one, but we thought it to be no good idea. Korean team would probably destroy everyone else and China has to big lag problems. @ starting maps: good point, we'll think about it. @Teams disbanding, players not caring etc: That's the biggest issue in my opinion. TLS Champs suffered from it too and many other events did in the past. But we can only provide the frame for the event, players need to motivate themselves and take it serious. im my perspective, there were two major issues which both come down to the overall state of foreign BW atm: Lack of people to do staff work for the event and lack of player dedication. Both comes down to the foreign scene being very small. You notice how few people play actively these days, same is true for people who spent their free time organizing events for this Game and in the end limits what i can achieve in terms of coverage, great teams and big prize money. Kind regards (; @Coverage Why not ask in public? You guys probably contacted a lot of ppl, but if you do it in public also maybe you can find people @Ace Match You can use 3rd party site to make ace match possible.(You dont even need any site tbh), unless you just want to host it everything on iccup site. @Balance Thats why i suggested transforming it into teams eague wih less teams, and better spread of players.
In before you think I hate (the opposite, I know you did good jobs yourself), just a few notes from the past:
1) Most suggestions, including worries about viewership
This game is as good as dead outside of Korea and nothing will change that easily. Hence, every player, every viewer, every writer has to come from within the own ranks, at least to start out with. Every player, viewer and writer also has a life by now, half of the people I knew either have prestigeous jobs, a family or multiple kids, many times all thrice combined. Most of what you can expect is for them to tune in occasionally. That's about it, for now. This, summarized, says you have limited means on a small scene. You need a shit ton of hype on channels none of us uses, including this page's front, bigger social media accounts and shit holes like reddit to promote a larger tour. It'd be exponentially more succesful if you add glorious names from the past, hopeing some of the SCII / MOBA people might flip over - and that's viewers only. Still doesn't fix the player problem, even people returning would have a hard time to deliver top notch play.
Sadly, this sends you on a downward spiral. It's always better to do "something" than "the best there is", but that also means you have to work with outdated garbage like ICCup's clan league system, unknown casters and semi-skilled players in the lower parts of leagues and tours. If you're lucky, it catches on and grows, but it'll get to some hold in the long run if you can't break through with it. That's probably what you underestimate, people often tuned in into somewhat less-good streams only to see people they once knew and immediately forgot about the game afterwards. Or that there were a lot more people involved in the process, be it TLC or ISL. You remember names like Game or Eywa, because they were good at self-promotion rather than organizing, and you also mix up a group of ten or more people for various TLC/TLS events. If ICCup at the moment, besides their staff for this particular event, can match the number of active people behind the scene it'd be surprising - in other words, there are less ICCup admins for the server now than there were helpers for the big tours in the past.
2) Asking publicly
I have done this time and time again. It just might be my reputation, but rarely anyone half-reliable turned up (people underestimate the work hours per week over months before saying "give me work"). This includes server announces, add-ons to news pieces, direct questions, forum threads and main page news on TL, ICCup, bw.de and partially even reps.ru. Always the same old faces turned up, in Cele's case someone from back before SCII-Beta. I have seen others having the same problem, namely every ICCup higher up whatsoever; again, maybe the reputation. However, orgas like Largo told me the very same and he's argueably a hated person anywhere, same goes for 2pac.
eon's point is legit, though, alongside arcneon, the stellar case for ... not doing something. Again, no blame, they at least played when they were asking and they were helpful with constructive criticism.
3) Balancing Teams
This is the safest route for getting flames from any side. Case: Scan in TL events - hate him or love him. You might think this is an exception, when the opposite is the standard - organize any lower ranked tour and people will hate on you. Compare this to the "ICCup start of season" thread in the general forums. This story is so old I can barely remember when I read it first: "The high ranked smurfs kill me! I know, I'm D-!"
I really understand you and I felt tons of events were wasted potential, including things I organized and things I loved to just watch - e.g. Defiler as an established weekly series. However, that's what you're willing to suck up, an endless road of disappointment, as long as you can get some fun out of it. It's one of the reasons I won't lift a finger lately, not because I hate you all or I hate the game. Simply no more time.
To just not end it with depressing statements: What REALLY makes a HUGE difference for any organizer, writer or caster is feedback of any kind, as long as it's not downright insulting. People tend to consume only, not a "I liked it", comments about the game or any kind of sign anyone ever read/watched/followed what you did. Don't be a lurker. That's what eventually drives you to organize another event and/or make it better than the one before. Also, picking up what I started with, spread the word, especially on pages you think nobody cares about. Don't stick with TL's BW forum, write a blog here. Hype up your team, have allys comment on blogs, raise attention. Go to the shit-hole reddit is and cluster the place with your event's coverage. Go to related forums and post there as well. Bump retired players and tell them how awesome this game is, then bump them again a week after. And the week following.
If Gaywa has shown anything, then it's that the one who screamed loudest is heard the most.
|
Creating anything requires people interested to do so. We have been looking at a few options for a while now, but bare in mind that if an event with a cash prize is not enough to motivate players to play once a week, we got a more serious problem than it looks in the surface.
Here are the raw facts: We are not kids anymore with tons of hours spare to waste. For any event to work well it requires all actors in that event to do their part correctly. If one actor can break the event for the rest of the actors, and the probability of that happening is high, it is probably not going to be considered as worth the effort.
To circumvent this, we could use small form factor events like "iccup attack", or similar to draw more attention to broodwar, but bare in mind that even that will require a lot of work if we dont have rotating streamers. (One player plays one day, the streams would have to be more often to gain momentum).
So even in the most simple event format it takes some work. We could create a thread in TL (broodwar) about possible events and their formats, after all many head think better than one.
I for one was considering creating a Broodwar Daily of sorts, using Tuesday to Friday with different ideas to create things like 3v3 hunters one day, race wars another, iccup attack, then another day I would stream my own practice games and another analyze replays from great players.
Sounds like a plan right? Not really: 1. I would need to give my e-mail to people and the constant streaming opens you up for DDoS attacks and viruses. 2. I dont always get home on time, so I could not make sure to actually stream every day. 3. I work 8 hours starring at a computer screen. You can imagine how much I want to be next to a PC after I get home. 4. I dont even know how many people would care about something like this (most of BW threads dont get anywhere near as many responses as viewers we got in NL). 5. As much as I like streaming, its something that can burn you out.
Its not a question of what we want to do, is more a question of what we can do.
|
Because of this league i started playing again.
|
Netherlands19124 Posts
|
Russian Federation376 Posts
good league
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
With Tastosis and Co. casting korean leagues now, it makes more sense if I cast foreign replays now. I'd like to cast replays/leagues Tuesday nights if iccup or anyone else has content they'd like to provide me with. This would be separate from my Thursday casts.
|
"best of uncasted games" series will continue this week. Sundays at 20 CET you can have your weekly portion of Broodwar until we run out of good uncasted games.
On September 14 2016 02:22 BisuDagger wrote: With Tastosis and Co. casting korean leagues now, it makes more sense if I cast foreign replays now. I'd like to cast replays/leagues Tuesday nights if iccup or anyone else has content they'd like to provide me with. This would be separate from my Thursday casts. Feel free to join sundays if you have the time.
|
Bisutopia19035 Posts
On September 15 2016 02:58 _Animus_ wrote:"best of uncasted games" series will continue this week. Sundays at 20 CET you can have your weekly portion of Broodwar until we run out of good uncasted games. Show nested quote +On September 14 2016 02:22 BisuDagger wrote: With Tastosis and Co. casting korean leagues now, it makes more sense if I cast foreign replays now. I'd like to cast replays/leagues Tuesday nights if iccup or anyone else has content they'd like to provide me with. This would be separate from my Thursday casts. Feel free to join sundays if you have the time. Looks up CET timezone... Central European Timezone? Brutal
|
On September 15 2016 03:35 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2016 02:58 _Animus_ wrote:"best of uncasted games" series will continue this week. Sundays at 20 CET you can have your weekly portion of Broodwar until we run out of good uncasted games. On September 14 2016 02:22 BisuDagger wrote: With Tastosis and Co. casting korean leagues now, it makes more sense if I cast foreign replays now. I'd like to cast replays/leagues Tuesday nights if iccup or anyone else has content they'd like to provide me with. This would be separate from my Thursday casts. Feel free to join sundays if you have the time. Looks up CET timezone... Central European Timezone? Brutal
yep sorry. Get in contact with herbmon perhaps? He's our american caster in the staff atm. If you guys wanna cast something, we have plenty of opportunities actually.
|
i think the number of viwers can get higher if we make other sites, and gaming communities interested in covering this event, is not that difficult... i'm sure some people here in tl know guys that run other webs, or that are involved in big gaming communities, i can even translate the content to spanish and try to get it arround latin websites. Let's make BW huge again =)
|
On September 16 2016 02:13 XenOsky- wrote: Let's make BW huge again =)
AND THEN BUILD A HUGE WALL TO KEEP OUT THE ZERG PLAYERS
|
On September 16 2016 03:27 GeckoXp wrote:AND THEN BUILD A HUGE WALL TO KEEP OUT THE ZERG PLAYERS
thats not a bad idea...
|
lol the Zergs would just burrow under it.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES49035 Posts
On September 17 2016 04:31 NoS-Craig wrote: lol the Zergs would just burrow under it. theres no burrow movement in BW
|
|
Polish Team prize distribution:
+ Show Spoiler + Pony $120.00 Julian $95.00 Trutacz $75.00 Rasowy $55.00 kogeT $55.00 Johnek $50.00 Cheetech $35.00 PNG $15.00 Pred $15.00 Bonus $10.00 Kingpin $5.00
~~ +/-
|
Thanks for organizing this - it was fun to watch. Nation format kind of sucks as an American player though
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES49035 Posts
|
Thnx for the hard work guys, as a player I appreciate any organizer/sponsor/caster etc who puts effort into the foreign bw scene
+1 for some kind of all kill format for whatever comes next, or being able to choose a map per player ahead of time like was in the SBWI nation wars, these things allow for more strategic play in building a lineup and practicing beforehand.
Just throwing an idea out there, if there is a concern that a nation league is too top heavy, or that there arnt enough strong clans anymore, we could have some sort of pool in which players register, such as for a large tournament, but then are sorted into different teams randomly, or team captains take turns picking players to form divisions. I donno how well this would actually work in practice but it could help spread out skill levels more evenly in a teamleague.
|
We are reading all the suggestions, some are good and realizable, others are good but cannot be applied. If you are interested to help with the organization of the second season read this www.teamliquid.net
|
|
|
|