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If someone can give me one reason these units expand the micro depth in SC and are balanced compared to there counterparts i will give them a cookie. Seriously why are these stupid OP units are in the game when all the micro they have to use is A move. And that marauders SLOW as well is ridicolous. Marauders counter pretty much 90% of the units in the game AT tier 1.5??? How is that fair? Marauders counter pretty much every Prottoss unit (cannot compare them at all to immortals since you can make so much more marauders then immortals) They also ruin mech for terran as well (lol lets make tanks more powerful in there standard tank form but still cant beat marauders...
Not even gonna get into Roaches since they are stupid and everybody knows it. Ruins 1 MU makes the other 2 stupider.... Also if blizzard wanted to maximize unit diversify why put these units in the game??? What were they trying to acclompish by adding a move cheap spammable units? Again can anyone give me TWO reasons that they add any depth in this game? Discuss.
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young skywalker... you will die... you will die
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Nothing wrong with roaches, especially after they have been nerfed 10910 times now. Marauders may need some nerfing though.
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why cant you micro these units exactly? whats stopping you from doing that?
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Ok that's fine and dandy you think that they are overpowered and out of place, but just continuously calling them stupid and OP does not an argument make.
I think that Marauders in particular have a bit too much depth (you can basically make them the entire game regardless of your enemy's unit composition), but not OP by a longshot. I play P and 3-4 immortals along with some chargelots absolutely decimates most marauder forces.
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They are both dramatically more effective against melee units when microed. That said I do think we will see some tweak to marauders sooner or later, they seem to be more of a core unit then marines right now in many matchups.
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On April 01 2010 06:48 zee wrote: why cant you micro these units exactly? whats stopping you from doing that? They dont take micro is the point? Any stupid person could kite with marauders (LOL 50% SLOW FOR FREE) Roaches are just a wc3 unit really....
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It might do to move the Marauder slow to an upgrade or make them 8 + 12a, but I guess we'll see where Blizzard goes with it
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They are ranged anti ground only units, of course when massed they will annihilate all other ground units that are not even more specialized at mass vs mass combat like siege tanks and colossi. Also protoss got their own variant with the immortal, it beats both roaches and marauders cost wise so it isn't bad.
Note however that in Starcraft this kind of unit didn't exist so with your Starcraft 1 eyes they seem imbalanced. But they can't shoot air and are weaker than melee units unless massed so they are not really imbalanced, they just add another unit type.
On April 01 2010 06:51 OHtRUe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 06:48 zee wrote: why cant you micro these units exactly? whats stopping you from doing that? They dont take micro is the point? Any stupid person could kite with marauders (LOL 50% SLOW FOR FREE) Roaches are just a wc3 unit really.... If the roach was a wc3 unit it would have 550 health, please don't be ridiculous. The battlecruiser in sc1 is the only starcraft unit even close to wc3 standards.
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Yeah you can't have your cake and eat it too with the definition of micro. Either kiting is micro or it isn't. Not-micro is literally a-moving and not issuing any more orders. Kiting is micro. If you want to say that the micro is too easy then sure, fine, but it's micro.
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On April 01 2010 06:51 theqat wrote: It might do to move the Marauder slow to an upgrade
I think this is a very good idea, Marines and Reapers both have a upgrade that improves them in the techlab marauders could have one too.
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in previous builds concussion grenades were researched. For some reason they buffed the marauders...
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Yeah, nerf marauders imo.
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cause they use beer bottles while wearing panda bear straw-hats to balance the game...
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On April 01 2010 06:54 theqat wrote: Yeah you can't have your cake and eat it too with the definition of micro. Either kiting is micro or it isn't. Not-micro is literally a-moving and not issuing any more orders. Kiting is micro. If you want to say that the micro is too easy then sure, fine, but it's micro. OK. SO for maruaders you have to kite against Zealots..... HUGE MICRO
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Marauders are Roaches can obviously be microed, in fact it's another thing they have over tier 1 units. I have been doing a lot of early barracks builds and the lag is so horrible with marines, if a zealot gets in range to hit a marine once it gets off 2 shots because your until will not move before 2 attacks. It's terrible
Meanwhile marauders are these cost effective behemoths who slow things and have crazy range, even awful players can micro these things effectively.
I really do think marauders and roaches make the game worse, but the game is so balanced around them at this point, I don't know what to suggest.
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Thank god Teamliquids ProMod is coming out this month. It will definatly purge these stupid WC3 units.
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On April 01 2010 07:04 Archerofaiur wrote: Thank god Teamliquids ProMod is coming out this month. It will definatly purge these stupid WC3 units. I dont get why people think this is a good thread to troll, since these units are actually the core problems with the game??? Seriously queen larvae, marauders, roaches, the game just screams A move
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I'm not sure I agree with them being imbalanced, at least not significantly, but the problem is vs ground where you can pretty much spam them vs anything in all matchups, which makes things a bit boring.
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I think the units need a little tweaking, but with every patch we are getting there.
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On April 01 2010 07:02 OHtRUe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 06:54 theqat wrote: Yeah you can't have your cake and eat it too with the definition of micro. Either kiting is micro or it isn't. Not-micro is literally a-moving and not issuing any more orders. Kiting is micro. If you want to say that the micro is too easy then sure, fine, but it's micro. OK. SO for maruaders you have to kite against Zealots..... HUGE MICRO What is the difference between kiting a marauder, or kiting a hydra, or kiting a goon, or kiting a roach? I don't see why this is being complained about. Why aren't you bitching about goon micro being too simple?
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I'm just going to assume your a protoss player..
The new stalker really isn't bad. Not even worth making many zealots vs t unless you have charge or are going for some kind of really fast pressure.
I do agree to some extent. I'm not really a big fan of roaches or marauders to be honest, I agree they are a bit too strong when A-moved OR using simple shoot-move micro. I wouldn't have a problem with them if they didn't shred my buildings.
Edit: My bad, same range. Was reading out-dated unit info.
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Solution:
Make marauders mechanical. Remove dropship heal. Put medics back in game.
Get rid of initial roach +2 armor. Give them speed to begin with -- make +2 armor a hive upgrade.
Wooh, I just made every matchup with zerg more fun.
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On April 01 2010 07:11 keV. wrote: I'm just going to assume your a protoss player..
The new stalker really isn't bad. I suggest using it, they out range marauders by quite a bit.
No, don't say thinks that aren't true please. They have identical ranges.
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On April 01 2010 07:11 Darpinion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:02 OHtRUe wrote:On April 01 2010 06:54 theqat wrote: Yeah you can't have your cake and eat it too with the definition of micro. Either kiting is micro or it isn't. Not-micro is literally a-moving and not issuing any more orders. Kiting is micro. If you want to say that the micro is too easy then sure, fine, but it's micro. OK. SO for maruaders you have to kite against Zealots..... HUGE MICRO What is the difference between kiting a marauder, or kiting a hydra, or kiting a goon, or kiting a roach? I don't see why this is being complained about. Why aren't you bitching about goon micro being too simple? because you dont have to micro marauders.... And when you do the simplest micro in the world you can counter every melee unit.
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On April 01 2010 07:10 OHtRUe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:04 Archerofaiur wrote: Thank god Teamliquids ProMod is coming out this month. It will definatly purge these stupid WC3 units. I dont get why people think this is a good thread to troll, since these units are actually the core problems with the game??? Seriously queen larvae, marauders, roaches, the game just screams A move
We arnt trolling.
We are just amused that after all this time there are still people who think the best way to make a point on TL is to compare something to [scary voice]Warcraft 3[/scary voice]
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As lots of people have already said, you can kite with them. Roaches have burrow and marauders have stim... I really dont see how this is any less micro intensive than marines, zealots, stalkers, immortals, ling which you seem to be fine with. In most RTS games your core army which makes up the masses arent very worth microing, largely because you have so many of them and they are simple units. If you start to give them too many mechanics it would become ridiculous, we don't need t 1.5 units having spells.
I feel many people are jumping and saying "they require no micro' because they do not micro the same as SC1 units. The pathing is not dreadful so positioning is much easier is a big thing, is this really a bad thing though? Also just because we dont have such dramatic micro techniques (discovered so far anyways) such as vulture micro where they are pretty well moving and shooting. You can still shoot and move, but with subtler effects.
If you feel these units might need balancing, why not try to offer some constructive suggestions. But what micro mechanics beyond simple skills, positioning and kiting can really be expected for t1.5 units?
On another note,
Roaches are just a wc3 unit really....
WC3 is generally more micro based game than SC in general, while SC has more of a focus on macro... I don't understand your point at all.
Roaches have been nerfed considerably, they are a bit tougher and have higher damage vs light units than marauder/stalker but they also are very slow and have considerably less range.
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It seems like putting units like these that are really powerful in t1 is blizzards way of achieving a shallow balance as opposed to having several different options early game. Of course, it would require much more effort and creativity to have balanced and diverse early game than just roaches, marauders etc.
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On April 01 2010 07:13 agorist wrote: Solution:
Make marauders mechanical. Remove dropship heal. Put medics back in game.
Get rid of initial roach +2 armor. Give them speed to begin with -- make +2 armor a hive upgrade.
Wooh, I just made every matchup with zerg more fun.
I like the -2 armor +speed but +2 armor makes them too similar to ranged ultralisk :<
Poor blizzard, if they didn't have to deal with flavor they'd... well they would of made supreme commander.
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roaches? Serious? You must be a protoss player, and a bad one at that. Roaches have been nerfed into the ground.. their tier 3 upgrade is almost useless now, and thats the only way roaches were even good. The only thing roaches counter now are zealots and lings. everything else owns them.
Marauders are the most imbalanced unit in the game tho by far, its like a BW tank that is cheap, moves fast and has slow.
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because you dont have to micro marauders.... And when you do the simplest micro in the world you can counter every melee unit.
Speedling absolutely destroy marauders per cost especially considering how easy it is to surround them so they cant even shoot + move. Also.. if you use charge lots vs marauders they are very strong assuming you micro your lots to surround him, you can also use forcefield to help surround and probably need some stalker/immortal support. Also.. ultra ling in decent numbers with speed upgrades destroy marauder. Assuming you don't a-move your melee from 1 direction in an open field or choke, I really don't see your point.
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Marauders get stomped by speedlings and charglots sooo , no you are wrong. Roaches actually have some interesting burrow micro capabilities as well.
As a whole i like where these 2 units are in terms of balance at the moment (as a random player) and think they fill important spots in the tech trees.
I mean zerg would just get STOMPED early game without roaches in ZvP and marauders serve as important meatshield for marines.
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On April 01 2010 07:24 FleuR wrote:Show nested quote +because you dont have to micro marauders.... And when you do the simplest micro in the world you can counter every melee unit. Speedling absolutely destroy marauders per cost especially considering how easy it is to surround them so they cant even shoot + move. Also.. if you use charge lots vs marauders they are very strong assuming you micro your lots to surround him, you can also use forcefield to help surround and probably need some stalker/immortal support. Also.. ultra ling in decent numbers with speed upgrades destroy marauder. Assuming you don't a-move your melee from 1 direction in an open field or choke, I really don't see your point. Its the amount of POWER they have as a unit. They dont have to do any super special micro, are a tier 1 UNIT, are cheap, and have overpowered stats.......
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I don't like the Roach OR Marauder either. I hate them in fact.
That doesn't mean I have a valid reason, I just hate the feel they give. Perhaps that'll change as the game evolves and I get more used to everything.
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On April 01 2010 07:26 Tinithor wrote: Marauders get stomped by speedlings and charglots sooo , no you are wrong. Roaches actually have some interesting burrow micro capabilities as well.
As a whole i like where these 2 units are in terms of balance at the moment (as a random player) and think they fill important spots in the tech trees.
I mean zerg would just get STOMPED early game without roaches in ZvP and marauders serve as important meatshield for marines. Yep so protoss should have to get a tier 2 upgrade with a ridicolous long research time and only get a half counter to marauders.... Seems fair...... Also thats why they have to remake units... IT IS BETA BY THE WAY....
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I don't understand why the OP needs to talk in caps to make points.
Speedlings > marauders.
Immortals/zealotswithcharge/ > marauders
any air unit > marauders
Stalkers do decent against marauders because they move faster when not slowed and do bonus to armored units.
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yeah, I really hate Roaches and Marauders as well (I'm Protoss-Player btw.) but Roaches are much more annoying to deal with as Protoss, because:
- Against T, you can use Immortals+Stalkers, which deal with M&M's, but it's also a very safe build to deal with cheese like Hellion-Drops, Banshees, SCV+Rine-Pushes and no Techswitch from the Terran can really catch you offguard. - Against Z, it's a whole other story. First thing to notice is, that Z is almost always FE'ing and therefore you should pressure the Z early and 2gate-stalkers into robo isn't the way to go here. So you need Zealots to do early aggression (on Maps you can't FE as Protoss, even with recent Canon-Buff) and generally against Lings. Then you need Sentry's mixed in with the Zealots to control Roaches and Speedlings. But Roaches are still too strong, so you need Immortals and Stalkers. If you mix in those 2 Units, Z just switches to more Zerglings and rapes u and when you finally have enough Zealots to deal with the Speedlings, Z can have tons of Mutas. It's just sooo hard to win against Z who is constantly techswitching if you haven't won or severly Damaged Z with the first timing-Attack with Zealots+Sentrys (blocking ramp and kicking exe...). I blame the hard-counter-system. -.-°
Anyways: Roaches and Marauders need nerfing, that's basically it. ^^'
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I guess I'll unload frustration in this thread since I was thinking the same thing.
After playing a bunch of matches today I was getting increasingly frustrated with the idea of Zerg as a whole. Roaches don't fit the mold for what the zerg means in my opinion. Oh great let me make a unit that murders zealots and sentries, and then once that lair comes up they can burrow to regenerate HP quickly... BUT WAIT THERES MORE... one more upgrade and your units can move underground. Not only that these magical little Zerg units have 145 HP. WTF are these things on roids? They're worth 1 supply and have that much HP? 1 zealot with 150 combined HP costs roughly the same and is worth 2 supply. How does that make any sense?
Not only that but once a Zerg gets Hydra the games over. A good hydra + roach combo beats most protoss combinations. They hard counter everything the other unit is actually weak against. And you don't even need that many for the combination to be effective. If you send 6 zealots with charge WITH +1 attack nonetheless against 9 or so hydra the 9 hydra will come away with little damage while you're down 6 zealots.
Blizzard should take another look at Zerg as a whole. If Roaches are only going to be 1 supply they should be more expensive or get a cut in HP (I think the latter would be better). If they make this change then I would be okay with Hydra being worth 1 supply as well.
It's annoying to go against these powerhouse Zerg units that, in my opinion, seem more like Protoss units.
Also I don't mind Marauders they kinda suck now vs Toss lol
Also everyone who's saying Zlings > Marauders... you know how many Zlings you need per Marauder when they're in a ball to actually be effective? Because last I checked Zlings can't even get close enough to do damage when enough Marauders are around.
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Zealots can easily defeat marauders. They have more health than marauders, do more damage than marauders, their attack cooldown is 0.3 sec less. Zeals are also cheaper by 25 gas. If you put in only a little amount of Immortals with your zeal force, they will tear through marauders easily, especiallly if you upgraded speed. Apparently marines are good against marauders as well. If you put them at the front of your force with your mech behind supporting marines, they should be able to beat mass marauders.
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On April 01 2010 07:30 zerglingsfolife wrote: I don't understand why the OP needs to talk in caps to make points.
Speedlings > marauders.
Immortals/zealotswithcharge/ > marauders
any air unit > marauders
Stalkers do decent against marauders because they move faster when not slowed and do bonus to armored units. Do you think at all? Seriously look at what you just posted and tell me if it makes sense...... What air unit does Toss have against marauders?? Marauders are already better then immortals and are easier to build so you cant use that. Zealots with charge (a loooooooong tier 2 upgrade) dont even hard counter them. Speedlings dont rape marauder balls (lol) anyway. Also marines compliment marauders in SO MANY WAYS its unfair. Like a cheaper version of hydra roach
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Counter to marauders isn't zlings, it's speedlings. =_= You don't need that many just enough to make a wall Marauder don't need nerfing. As for zealots, get charge and stop getting too many stalkers. I can't count how many times my marauder army lost against charged zealots and won against mass stalkers.
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I would like it if marauders were changed slightly to reduce their kiting effectiveness. Specifically, they would receive a change to how their weapons fired. I think there should be a slightly "charge up" effect before the shot goes off, followed by another "charge up" and shot, etc. The actual rate of fire could remain the same, so they would do the exact same DPS if they were standing still, but the important difference is that they could not charge up while they were moving. They could stand still, get their charge, and then move around, but they couldn't shoot->instantly move->shoot immediately again.
I hope that makes enough sense to at least understand the general suggestion as well as how the concept behind it would work. I believe it would also provide an interesting new micro mechanic -- it would encourage keeping hotkeys of marauders and marines separate to maximize the amount of times they can fire while still moving the army around.
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Immortals do not beat Marauders... Microed properly, a Marauder ball can prevent any Immortal from hitting them more than 5 times, seriously. The slow is too damn effective, Terrans don't even bother making Marines anymore, most of the game I play and watch are Marauders + Medivacs and sometimes a few tanks. That counters pretty much any non-cheesy strat.
As far as Roaches are concerned, Immortals counter them pretty well, but Zergs are still quite able to mass them up to "counter the counter". Immortals are cool, but if there are just too many roaches and you don't have a 100% Immortal composed army, you'll lose to this unit in mass.
The main problem is, Terrans have Marauders, Zergs have Roaches, Protoss have nothing like that. They don't have this one unit that stands over the others. Zealots ? No way, you kinda need charge, then yeah they're deadly. But well, T2 + 200/200 and like 150 seconds upgrade time or so. Stalkers ? Much more of a support unit, great to have in a mix sure, but you'll never make a full-Stalker army as deadly as a full Roaches or a full Marauders army. Unless you get Blink, which brings me back to the Charge point. Sentry ? Support unit also. Don't get me wrong, Force Field and Guardian Shield are truely awesome, but Sentries won't bring the amount of damage you'd need to win a fight, any fight.
In every game I see, Protoss is the race that has to mix up its army, for real, while Zerg and Terran can afford not to.
edit : I say, add a 10 seconds (or maybe less, I say 10 because it's the cooldown of both Charge and Blink...) cooldown to the Marauders slow. This would still make it VERY efficient, would actually add some more micro to the game early on, and would make the Marauder mass slightly less strong.
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w00t - didn't even realize roaches are 1 supply!
I CALL IMBA!
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If the slow speed thing had to be researched that would prob stop a lot of the people complaining about marauders.
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On April 01 2010 07:46 Whiplash wrote: If the slow speed thing had to be researched that would prob stop a lot of the people complaining about marauders.
Good ideaa imho. makes it harder to abuse stim+marauders.
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On April 01 2010 07:46 Whiplash wrote: If the slow speed thing had to be researched that would prob stop a lot of the people complaining about marauders.
I find it funny that a lot of spells are provided without upgrade. I'd be willing to take a dive as a toss and have to research force field or guardian shield prior to use. Same thing with the Mothership abilities instead of killing the unit in every other possible way. Infestors have the same thing I think where all spells are already upgraded. What's the actual point of an infestation pit then... it has the mana upgrade? The Phoenix would need to keep it's spell though since it sucks on it's own
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roach vs roach is as exciting as mass hunts vs mass hunts. it even looks like it. just the units are uglier and shoot green stuff instead of glaives. but anywhere else its the same.
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i want to sell roaches. i want to buy lurkers.
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On April 01 2010 07:59 zul wrote: i want to sell roaches. i want to buy lurkers.
done deal! ^^'
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On April 01 2010 07:54 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:46 Whiplash wrote: If the slow speed thing had to be researched that would prob stop a lot of the people complaining about marauders. I find it funny that a lot of spells are provided without upgrade. I'd be willing to take a dive as a toss and have to research force field or guardian shield prior to use. Same thing with the Mothership abilities instead of killing the unit in every other possible way. Infestors have the same thing I think where all spells are already upgraded. What's the actual point of an infestation pit then... it has the mana upgrade? The Phoenix would need to keep it's spell though since it sucks on it's own
I think they wanted to make more spells used in sc2 than scbw so they make them more readily available.
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On April 01 2010 07:11 Darpinion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:02 OHtRUe wrote:On April 01 2010 06:54 theqat wrote: Yeah you can't have your cake and eat it too with the definition of micro. Either kiting is micro or it isn't. Not-micro is literally a-moving and not issuing any more orders. Kiting is micro. If you want to say that the micro is too easy then sure, fine, but it's micro. OK. SO for maruaders you have to kite against Zealots..... HUGE MICRO What is the difference between kiting a marauder, or kiting a hydra, or kiting a goon, or kiting a roach? I don't see why this is being complained about. Why aren't you bitching about goon micro being too simple? marauders slow targets, which makes kiting about 10 times easier. with their free slow as soon as you attack the units in front basically stop, which blocks the units in back, giving you a ridiculous amount of time to easily back up and fire again, repeating the process. any other unit, like hydras or goons, if you kite against a faster melee unit you are going to take hits, kiting just reduces the amount of hits you take. the marauder slow makes it so you can do the equivalent of vulture vs ling/slowlot micro against every ground unit there is, with marauders being significantly bulkier.
for those of you talking about speedlots owning marauders, you obviously havent seen high level play. unless the marauders get surrounded by zlots or just sit there and get hacked at, marauders decimate chargelots with even a little micro, just kite backwards and they cant touch you after the one hit they get from charge.
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On April 01 2010 07:43 Spaylz wrote: Immortals do not beat Marauders... Microed properly, a Marauder ball can prevent any Immortal from hitting them more than 5 times, seriously. The slow is too damn effective, Terrans don't even bother making Marines anymore, most of the game I play and watch are Marauders + Medivacs and sometimes a few tanks. That counters pretty much any non-cheesy strat. Yeah, that army which contains absolutely no anti-air units counters any non-cheesy strat.
Try building a Stargate. Phoenixes will rescue you from his medivacs and snipe his tanks easily if you get a couple.
Also, if he has 100% marauder composition, why exactly can't you have 100% immortal and zealot composition?
Hell, you can probably even build a Mothership and cause him all kinds of problems.
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Marauders are too powerful for how easy they are to mass. Marauders are used in every matchup no matter what the opponent is going. They are strong enough to tank against every matchup.
Marauder - 100/25/30 125
Stalker - 125/50/42 80/80
Marauder > Stalker - marauder beats stalker 1v1 even though the stalker costs more Marauder > Zealot - due to the slow Marauder > Sentry
Marauders beat every unit from the gateway including units that are more expensive.
The charge upgrade is required to make zealots not useless against them when massed.
Marauders force protoss to go robo, which then opens them up to banshee harass.
The slow really should be researched, same cost and time as charge imo.
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On April 01 2010 08:19 shmoo wrote: Marauders are too powerful for how easy they are to mass. Marauders are used in every matchup no matter what the opponent is going. They are strong enough to tank against every matchup.
Marauder - 100/25/30 125
Stalker - 125/50/42 80/80
Marauder > Stalker - marauder beats stalker 1v1 even though the stalker costs more Marauder > Zealot - due to the slow Marauder > Sentry
Marauders beat every unit from the gateway including units that are more expensive.
The charge upgrade is required to make zealots not useless against them when massed.
Marauders force protoss to go robo, which then opens them up to banshee harass.
The slow really should be researched, same cost and time as charge imo.
Having the slow from marauders be an upgrade doesn't seem too bad imo, but they can't nerf marauders anymore than that or terran will just get run over early...
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On April 01 2010 08:14 Odds wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:43 Spaylz wrote: Immortals do not beat Marauders... Microed properly, a Marauder ball can prevent any Immortal from hitting them more than 5 times, seriously. The slow is too damn effective, Terrans don't even bother making Marines anymore, most of the game I play and watch are Marauders + Medivacs and sometimes a few tanks. That counters pretty much any non-cheesy strat. Yeah, that army which contains absolutely no anti-air units counters any non-cheesy strat. Try building a Stargate. Phoenixes will rescue you from his medivacs and snipe his tanks easily if you get a couple. Also, if he has 100% marauder composition, why exactly can't you have 100% immortal and zealot composition? Hell, you can probably even build a Mothership and cause him all kinds of problems.
Yeah, try to handle a mid game Marauder push if you're going air. You will never have enough units to kill the whole army before it destroys half your base. Not to mention Marines covers air units pretty well. Do I need to compare the cost of Marines with Phoenix and Void Ray with you ? Cheesy included air, sir. And LOL on the Phoenix suggestion. I feel like I should tell you man, PHOENIX SUCKS.
And finally, "Also, if he has 100% marauder composition, why exactly can't you have 100% immortal and zealot composition?"
Oh, I don't know, probably because you can't two or three rax Immortals and spam them without having like three bases ? Check out how much an Immortal costs, how much slower it is, how much more time you'll need to get your first one out before the Terran has enough Marauders to kill it. Also, while you can mass Zealots, they're worthless against Marauders without Charge, and even then they can be handled by good micro.
Immortals are just like Marauders, only slower, a LOT more expensive and with no effects attached to their attack aside from the (very good) extra damage to armored. They can't attack air, which makes the Protoss vulnerable to it, BUT like I said you can't mass them up as quickly and as effectivly as Marauders.
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On April 01 2010 08:14 Odds wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:43 Spaylz wrote: Immortals do not beat Marauders... Microed properly, a Marauder ball can prevent any Immortal from hitting them more than 5 times, seriously. The slow is too damn effective, Terrans don't even bother making Marines anymore, most of the game I play and watch are Marauders + Medivacs and sometimes a few tanks. That counters pretty much any non-cheesy strat. Yeah, that army which contains absolutely no anti-air units counters any non-cheesy strat. Try building a Stargate. Phoenixes will rescue you from his medivacs and snipe his tanks easily if you get a couple.Also, if he has 100% marauder composition, why exactly can't you have 100% immortal and zealot composition? Hell, you can probably even build a Mothership and cause him all kinds of problems. are you retarded? seriously people that have never played the game or watched a high-level player stream should be banned from posting. get phoenix vs terran? thats the biggest joke i've heard yet. he needs 4-5 marines max to shut down any phoenix, plus you can't "easily snipe his tanks with a couple" of phoenix, they do like 10 damage, so good luck killing a tank before your air units get shredded.
and mothership? really? just shut up seriously. stargate+fleet beacon+insane cost for what.. a unit that gets insta-killed by vikings that he can mass from the starports that he already has?
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the maruders are very nice for me because i play terran, but the best way to nerf them would be to make them range 5. That way they have to get in line w/ the marines and not stand behind them so easily.
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