[TV] Gotham
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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KwarK
United States40698 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
The general atmosphere and tone was good, the acting wasn't great, but the premise held my attention. It will be hard for me to stick with a detective show where the detective work made no sense though. In particular in regards to Gordon's investigation into + Show Spoiler + the framed murder. 1) Ivy's mother said that her husband was into a lot of bad stuff, but wasn't capable of killing anyone and Gordon seemed to accept this as believeable testimony despite the fact that her husband tried to kill him by shooting then attempting to stab him. Speaking of which, if her husband was "innocent" why did he run and try to kill a cop in the first place? Guilty of something else perhaps? I didn't hear any explanation of what that might be. 2) Bullock says Gordon can't tell anyone that they got the wrong man because that means he killed an innocent man and they will both lose their jobs...? What? Bullock shot Ivy's father because he was trying to kill Gordon. Ivy's father's guilt or innocence in the murder of the Waynes had nothing to do with the legality of shooting him in defense of Gordon. Am I the only one who was bothered by this? First episode is available free online at http://www.fox.com/gotham/ | ||
Korlin
Canada142 Posts
On September 25 2014 01:08 karazax wrote: I wanted to like this, but the writing was kind of bad. A detective show where the detective work has huge plot holes is a problem. The general atmosphere and tone was good, the acting wasn't great, but the premise held my attention. It will be hard for me to stick with a detective show where the detective work made no sense though. First episode is available free online at http://www.fox.com/gotham/ Is that US only or the video just temporarily down? | ||
Celial
2602 Posts
Catwoman is 10-15 years older than Bruce. Seems odd, she used to be a romantic interest for adult Bruce in all other instances. The Riddler is a coroner for the police and already old... The Penguin seemed really really REALLY socially awkward penguin and kind of retarded. Also a background in organized crime instead of wealthy family. A far cry from the brilliant tactician and criminal mastermind that is as skilled in hand to hand combat as Batman. | ||
Sermokala
United States13513 Posts
I'd say the shows going to be ruined by terrible wirting decisions but with this being such terrible decisions from the start I doubt it'll be getting any better. | ||
Wolfstan
Canada605 Posts
On September 25 2014 01:29 Korlin wrote: Is that US only or the video just temporarily down? Canadians can get it on CTV.ca. | ||
Daray
6006 Posts
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Korlin
Canada142 Posts
Thanks! | ||
bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On September 25 2014 01:08 karazax wrote: I wanted to like this, but the writing was kind of bad. A detective show where the detective work has huge plot holes is a problem. The general atmosphere and tone was good, the acting wasn't great, but the premise held my attention. It will be hard for me to stick with a detective show where the detective work made no sense though. In particular in regards to Gordon's investigation into + Show Spoiler + the framed murder. 1) Ivy's mother said that her husband was into a lot of bad stuff, but wasn't capable of killing anyone and Gordon seemed to accept this as believeable testimony despite the fact that her husband tried to kill him by shooting then attempting to stab him. Speaking of which, if her husband was "innocent" why did he run and try to kill a cop in the first place? Guilty of something else perhaps? I didn't hear any explanation of what that might be. 2) Bullock says Gordon can't tell anyone that they got the wrong man because that means he killed an innocent man and they will both lose their jobs...? What? Bullock shot Ivy's father because he was trying to kill Gordon. Ivy's father's guilt or innocence in the murder of the Waynes had nothing to do with the legality of shooting him in defense of Gordon. Am I the only one who was bothered by this? First episode is available free online at http://www.fox.com/gotham/ + Show Spoiler + Even if I disagree, I wouldn't tell the woman whose husband just got shot and killed (by my partner) that she is wrong. It just seems kind of... childish to disagree with a grieving woman to have moral high ground. The premise of the search was that there's probable cause for the man to be the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. While I agree that Ivy's dad is a shady person and probably committed some other crimes, he is, by all means, innocent on the count of murders of Thomas and Martha. I agree that Bullock acted in self-defense and is perfectly justified in shooting Ivy's dad. However, this is a big profile case and they were heralded as hero cops after killing Ivy's dad. Their jobs are in jeopardy regardless once the truth comes out, because Bullock followed on a tip and cornered an "innocent" man and killed him. How will this look in the press? GCPD would look rather incompetent, and they might just be fired as a result. But later on we know that Bullock probably knew the whole situation in the first place, and that he's just sprouting some bullshit to Gordon. I actually kind of like the show so far. There are some corny moments, but less than it would an outright superhero TV show. | ||
Disposition1989
Canada270 Posts
I think (could be wrong on this) they plan to do character-centric episodes so we'll probably see some more in depth looks at these "oh hey look I'm from comics but since there are so many of us we can't talk to me that much right now!" characters. Also, most pilots are filmed with the primary intention of selling the show to the network (also could be wrong on this). A lot of pilots feel like they are made to appeal to the widest audience possible to appease the broadcast gods. So the first batch of episodes likely has zero viewer/critical feedback and might need some time to sort itself out. Or not. Man oh man it was brutal! Gonna watch all 16 episodes because there isn't anything else on Monday nights but they really dropped the ball on this. | ||
karazax
United States3737 Posts
On September 25 2014 04:18 bearbuddy wrote: + Show Spoiler + Even if I disagree, I wouldn't tell the woman whose husband just got shot and killed (by my partner) that she is wrong. It just seems kind of... childish to disagree with a grieving woman to have moral high ground. The premise of the search was that there's probable cause for the man to be the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. While I agree that Ivy's dad is a shady person and probably committed some other crimes, he is, by all means, innocent on the count of murders of Thomas and Martha. I agree that Bullock acted in self-defense and is perfectly justified in shooting Ivy's dad. However, this is a big profile case and they were heralded as hero cops after killing Ivy's dad. Their jobs are in jeopardy regardless once the truth comes out, because Bullock followed on a tip and cornered an "innocent" man and killed him. How will this look in the press? GCPD would look rather incompetent, and they might just be fired as a result. But later on we know that Bullock probably knew the whole situation in the first place, and that he's just sprouting some bullshit to Gordon. I actually kind of like the show so far. There are some corny moments, but less than it would an outright superhero TV show. Response to plot problems: + Show Spoiler + It wasn't that Gordon didn't call her a liar that bothered me, but rather his reaction of acceptance that this statement in any way strengthened his doubts about who killed the Waynes. It was a stupid comment for her to make considering her husband was shooting at Gordon as he ran just outside their door. I understand the reason Gordon and Bullock searched his apartment. I don't understand Ivy's father's reaction to that request. Why is he fleeing and trying to kill a cop when he is innocent? They didn't corner an "innocent" man. Innocent men don't run from the police and shoot at them, then try to stab them when they are persued. How is that possibly going to cost them their jobs? Being wrong on a high profile case may be embarassing, but only covering that up to avoid that embarassment would be job ending. It was just dumb writing that easily could have been avoided. My comparisons at this point are going to be to other detective shows, not other super hero shows, until we actually get a super hero/villain. The detective parts have been pretty terrible so far even though the concept is interesting | ||
sertas
Sweden803 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On September 25 2014 06:09 karazax wrote: Response to plot problems: + Show Spoiler + It wasn't that Gordon didn't call her a liar that bothered me, but rather his reaction of acceptance that this statement in any way strengthened his doubts about who killed the Waynes. It was a stupid comment for her to make considering her husband was shooting at Gordon as he ran just outside their door. I understand the reason Gordon and Bullock searched his apartment. I don't understand Ivy's father's reaction to that request. Why is he fleeing and trying to kill a cop when he is innocent? They didn't corner an "innocent" man. Innocent men don't run from the police and shoot at them, then try to stab them when they are persued. How is that possibly going to cost them their jobs? Being wrong on a high profile case may be embarassing, but only covering that up to avoid that embarassment would be job ending. It was just dumb writing that easily could have been avoided. My comparisons at this point are going to be to other detective shows, not other super hero shows, until we actually get a super hero/villain. The detective parts have been pretty terrible so far even though the concept is interesting + Show Spoiler + It was indeed a stupid statement for the wife to make. She's also married to an obviously abusive man. Her husband still got shot and she's mad and she's sad. Gordon didn't apologize to the wife-- he asked to check the shoes, and since the necklace was circumstantial evidence in the first place, and Gordon went on to confirm it with Fish Mooney (and getting himself in trouble). As I've said, Ivy's father is innocent of killing Martha and Thomas Wayne, but that doesn't mean is innocent of committing other crimes, as evidenced by his past incarceration. He is obviously capable of killing, but that doesn't mean he actually has killed anyone (if his previous conviction is murder, he would probably still be locked up). Why did he flee in the first place? We'll probably never know. But the audience is straight up told that he didn't murder Martha and Thomas Wayne. The press and reality are two different things. Ultimately, the interpretation of public relations between you and me are too different to come to an agreement, so any arguing would be rather moot. This is the very first episode to set up the premise of the show. In 45 minutes of actual air time, we are introduced to several future batman villains, several main players of Gotham, and the relationship of the mafia within itself and its connection to the police. We're not going to get any deep detective work done in this episode, nor has the show ever declared itself a detective show in the first place. I guess my expectations are simply different, and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief much easier. | ||
Wolfstan
Canada605 Posts
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Eti307
Canada3442 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
What do you think the average length of each scene is in this show? About 30-45 seconds? There's snappy and fast paced and then there is awkward and jarring. This show is straddling that edge perilously. The only thing I genuinely think is pretty well done on the show is Gotham itself. A nice grimy and sweaty version of NYC/Chicago with crap added to it. If there was one thing I'd say I disliked most about the Christian Bale movies is that Gotham was really crappy and generic in the 2nd and 3rd movies (with the 3rd movie horrifyingly being basically just helicopter shots of New York). | ||
TigerKarl
1757 Posts
Now that they seem to add that for no reason into this world, that could do fine just without them, says a lot about the writers. | ||
Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On September 25 2014 03:31 Daray wrote: Bad writing and mediocre acting spiced up with some comic book lore. People will be all over that shit :D Basically Smallville 2.0 | ||
karazax
United States3737 Posts
The GCPD is incompetent. Except for Jim Gordon, none of its officers appear to have any interest in doing any actual investigative work, and upper management takes a similarly dismissive position. Commissioner Essen isn’t just aware of the corruption within her unit—she appears to be in active support of it. “Jim, it’s not like I can order you to break the law, but this is Gotham,” Essen says when Jim comes to her with concerns about Bullock’s interrogation methods. “If you don’t bend, you’ll get broke.” How is it that all the corrupt cops don't even make the most cursory efforts to hide their corruption from Gordon from the start, and Major Crimes seems completely oblivious? Then again, I don't know who the Major Crimes division would even report anything to considering the commissioner, and every cop other than Gordon is corrupt and so is the mayor. I keep forgetting that Selina Kyle is Catwoman, thankfully the writers remind me every scene she is in. Maybe I'm exaggerating. It's not like she fights by scratching or she first appeared in the episode batting at a shiny dangling thing... I wouldn't have caught on though until they told me "This young WOMAN has CATlike reflexes" or she reminded me to call her Cat and not Selina a dozen times. Maybe it will improve over time, but I'm not impressed so far. It stands more on the strengths of Batman's history and legacy than it does on it's own merits. | ||
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