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On February 21 2018 22:08 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Every time I watch Gintama, I'm painfully made aware that it is ending soon. Doubt I'll ever find another anime this well made that hits all the buttons and feels.
I really should catch up before the finale.
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On February 21 2018 22:37 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2018 16:22 abuse wrote:On February 21 2018 01:29 Sentenal wrote: The LN was even worse, since it included more of Kirito just going around ALO slapping things with his SAO-inflated E-dick, just to show how "cool" he was. Why is this bad though? I enjoyed reading ALO quite a lot, in fact it was probably my favorite part to read except for alicization, and I hated ALO more than anyone when it came out because of how it decided to adapt the part that I loved reading so much. But I still love ALO because of how much fun it was to read. A lot of people like power-fantasies and OP main characters. It's basically a genre of its own. Why is it bad or cringe worthy? It's not your type of thing and that's fine. Doesn't make it cringeworthy or shitty. I also have no idea why you even read ALO if you hated it so much in anime form. I read SAO before I watched it. And no, its shitty. Like, objectively shitty. The book makes a big deal about hard flying in ALO is. Kirito masters it in no time, and to a scale that blows away his sister, who was among the most talented. Why can he do this? Because he is MMO Jesus. He gets into a battle against a bunch of other players using the latest and greatest strategies, and he beats them down just because (and also transforms into the image of some SAO Boss, just because). Then he gets into a 1v1 against the strongest player in the game, who also had the best equipment in the game, and again, he just beats him down again, because he is MMO Jesus. Then he goes down to the Underworld and sees a bunch of God Beast Monsters, and is like "you know, I wanna tame one of these!" and then he does, because MMO Jesus. Need I go on? That arc was one of the most disgusting parade of Mary-sueness I've experienced in a long time.
again - why is that shitty? Why is being MMO Jesus a bad thing? I for one enjoy reading that too. I don't see how that makes it "objectively shitty", if anything it's the definition of "subjective".
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You don't see anything wrong with some poorly characterized hero being the greatest ever at everything he ever does, just because hes himself? There is no reason behind it, no real challenges to offset it to create tension and drama. As bad as GGO was, he actually had challenges to overcome, and there was actual tension to the plot because of it. ALO was like reading fan-fiction.
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On February 21 2018 23:44 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2018 22:08 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Every time I watch Gintama, I'm painfully made aware that it is ending soon. Doubt I'll ever find another anime this well made that hits all the buttons and feels. I really should catch up before the finale. Where did you leave off?
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On February 22 2018 00:13 Sentenal wrote: You don't see anything wrong with some poorly characterized hero being the greatest ever at everything he ever does, just because hes himself? There is no reason behind it, no real challenges to offset it to create tension and drama. As bad as GGO was, he actually had challenges to overcome, and there was actual tension to the plot because of it. ALO was like reading fan-fiction. yo, I still maintain that if you consider Magic-Jesus to be a parady, that it makes it a pretty damn amazing series. OPM also did the same (although in that case intentionally). So I can certainly see situations in which OP MC for the sake of being OP can be good or at least entertaining.
I would agree that SAO is worse in that regard than both OPM (obviously) and Magic-Jesus (as that's just so over the top that it becomes hilarious) but wo cares. I watch shitty harem rom coms because I find them entertaining so what's wrong with shitty power fantasies.
Maybe if you're making an argument that that kind of series / genre dominates anime so much lately that it annoys people who aren't into that simply because there's so much of it. That perspective I can understand.
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You can't compare series like OPM that are comedy focused to stories that try to get their viewers to take their gary stu MCs serious like SAO and Mahouka. And yes, mahouka tries to be serious, it's not a parody.
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On February 22 2018 00:19 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2018 23:44 Grettin wrote:On February 21 2018 22:08 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Every time I watch Gintama, I'm painfully made aware that it is ending soon. Doubt I'll ever find another anime this well made that hits all the buttons and feels. I really should catch up before the finale. Where did you leave off?
I've watched few episodes of the sixth season. Slip Arc, i guess?
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On February 22 2018 02:11 Unleashing wrote: You can't compare series like OPM that are comedy focused to stories that try to get their viewers to take their gary stu MCs serious like SAO and Mahouka. And yes, mahouka tries to be serious, it's not a parody. I never bothered with Magic Batman Jesus, but this is true. SAO is not a parody or comedy, so does not get the pass that OPM gets
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just because it's not intended as a comedy doesn't mean it can't be funny for similar reasons for some people. It's essentially the same thing, just that OPM did it on purpose and therefore did it better.
OPM isn't getting a pass or anything. We like it because it was funny and entertaining, simple as that. If the same can be said about SAO or Mahouka who cares if it's supposed to be a comedy or not. I agree that SAO is easily the worst in that regard but I can see some people liking it that way (as that's true for me in at least the case of Mahouka, not SAO though) or just plain liking it for what it is.
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What the fuck did I just read. It's so bad that you can laugh at it so it's good?
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I just find it easier to call a bad show bad even if it's enjoyable. I enjoyed mahouka but holy shit was it poorly written and overall just shitty.
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So really what you saying is that the definitions of what is good and bad are not the same for different people. One may be enjoyable stuff as a metric for it while others measure other metrics. I'm on Unleashing that just because it's enjoyable doesn't make it good. Mahouka is some dam crazy trash but I enjoy it. It doesn't do anything particularly well outside of the magic/sci-fi integration. Then it completely throws that hard work out the way by making Magic jesus break every rule by some magical mcguffin that says he's in a layer beyond those rules essentially. It's sad. Why am I talking about Mahouka now. Dammit Toad what are you doing to us?!
OPM is a parody that intentionally exaggerates tropes of the genre to comedic effect. It still has the fundamentals of writing and storytelling down well even if it does this. SAO is not intentionally exaggerating tropes but instead attempting to do said tropes without having any good fundamentals to execute them well. This just leads to a badly done story with poor pacing, terrible characters and inconsistent world. They are two completely fundamentally different stories. Mahouka falls in the SAO region of trying to do things but failing at them. It's not intentionally being poor, it just is poor because either the writer/editors aren't good enough or that they are merely focusing story for another purpose sacrificing things along the way.
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TLADT24917 Posts
Thing is Toad, if the anime is meant to be serious, sure, you can enjoy it as a comedy regardless, but that was not the original intention of the author. OPM was meant to be taken as comedy from the start and that's why it's much more accepted, why it gets an easy pass and is well received.
First half of SAO had lots of potential imo but it squandered it as it went by. I like my OP character and I had no problems with Kirito being a monster in SAO but I agree that giving more of an explanation and background as to why he's so good will help quite a bit. Is it mostly from his beta days? Is he some prodigy? Why him and not player x?
Advancing the story logically too (they took on an AI as a child and had a mini love story in a game of death lol) would've helped meh.
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why does it have to be intended that way for it to be "good". I think the underlying issue is that when people in here say "it's good" they just most of the times don't mean it in a critical, analytical sense "good". When someone gets in here and says he thinks SAO is good I don't read that as him saying he actually thinks there's good characters, worldbuilding and whatever else. I just read it as he enjoyed the series unless he goes on to specify it more in detail. And that's perfectly fine for whatever reason that might have been.
There's really no point in just shitting on something for being "clearly bad" when all we had was someone get in here and say he liked SAO and thought it was good. That's the kind of shit that makes people run away from this thread. I don't like SAO either but I can see why people might enjoy it (in my case the upcomming one because damn voice trap of the century) and with all the trash we're (I am) watching I don't see the point in being so gung-ho about the correct usage of the word "good" just to get the weekly SAO bash out.
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The tone of the discussion is definitely a bit too abrasiveness. I only chirp Toad because he's a pervert that can handle a bit of a ribbing :D
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yeah that's the thing. I don't mind this kind of thing ond me and I'm asking for it more often than not when I encouter people with clearly shitty taste in 2d waifus.
But with the newer guys in here it's a bit too much imo.
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TLADT24917 Posts
I think you misunderstand, I actually enjoyed at least the first half of SAO and I've went back and watched some episodes several times already because I do love seeing OP character just bash weaker ones. Likewise, I've went back and watched parts of Mahouka because again, I just wanted to see the characters defy everyone's expectations.
My post was mostly saying that if we had to look at it objectively, I can agree to the arguments that SAO really lacked on a lot of fronts and failed to live up to the expectations set out by the author imo.
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The SAO horse is so dead its already decomposed and blown away, jesus christ.
I do have to say that "expectations set out by SAO author" is one of the most hilarious things I've heard in a while though.
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who care is someone like something for whatever reason. no reason to beat up on someone. unless it's something silly like loving on something then hating on something that's like 95% the same
On February 22 2018 04:59 Kaal wrote: The SAO horse is so dead its already decomposed and blown away, jesus christ.
I do have to say that "expectations set out by SAO author" is one of the most hilarious things I've heard in a while though.
AW is one of more enjoyable series for me, flying pig be damned
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On February 22 2018 04:34 Toadesstern wrote: I think the underlying issue is that when people in here say "it's good" they just most of the times don't mean it in a critical, analytical sense "good". When someone gets in here and says he thinks SAO is good I don't read that as him saying he actually thinks there's good characters, worldbuilding and whatever else. I just read it as he enjoyed the series unless he goes on to specify it more in detail. And that's perfectly fine for whatever reason that might have been. Of course that's perfectly fine, nobody here went "Wow holy shit you have shit taste for enjoying SAO" different posters were simply posting their opinions on the series whether they be positive or negative. They just happen to be very negative in general as far as SAO goes.
On February 22 2018 04:34 Toadesstern wrote:There's really no point in just shitting on something for being "clearly bad" when all we had was someone get in here and say he liked SAO and thought it was good. That's the kind of shit that makes people run away from this thread. I don't like SAO either but I can see why people might enjoy it (in my case the upcomming one because damn voice trap of the century) and with all the trash we're (I am) watching I don't see the point in being so gung-ho about the correct usage of the word "good" just to get the weekly SAO bash out. The same poster you talk about called other parts of SAO shit himself though, if he's calling stuff shit why should he run away because people call parts he liked shit?
As long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks i really don't see the problem.
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