Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 14
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
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Archeon
3235 Posts
Also I cant just buy a NTSC version of melee and play, i need to have a NTSC-console as well, right? | ||
Shinshady
Canada1237 Posts
On April 12 2014 05:18 Jaaaaasper wrote: Any suggestions on how to practice mechanics long term with out my hands starting to hurt? How long do you normally practice for? I try practicing at least 30 minutes to an hour a day when I have the time (this time will increase after school is over). If you really need to try doing hand exercises, but I'm used to playing all types of video games for long periods of time so maybe it's not fair to compare. I have a friend who has hand problems so he plays the game on and off, but if you really need to try wearing gloves. On April 12 2014 05:10 BlackPride wrote: Hey a buddy of mine plays sheik and is awfully defensive. I get shield-grabbed a ridiculous amount every game as fox and falco and just don't know how to combat it. The guy hardly wavedashes, isn't even trying to L-cancel and seldomuses any other advanced techniques. I do, and have pretty decent mechanics and tech for a relatively new player, yet I cannot beat this shield-grabbing. What can I do? I know its vague, but any advice will help. I can't give you good advice as fox but as Falco when you D-air to shield poke if you don't actually get the attack through make sure it was going past his shield. This way he needs to turn around before he grabs and if you l-cancel correctly you should be able to punish it with a shine. If you can't do that really well you could always try spot dodging after the approach but try not to get into the habit of doing so as better players will punish you. Also try to approach differently (for both characters) and if you need to just play campy. Sheik actually can be played decently without advanced tech to be honest. On April 12 2014 10:28 Blackfeather wrote: How bad is sheik in PAL really? I read somewhere that she isnt even A-tier. I dont really want to switch my main out, but i am having a hard time against falco and tbh i am worse than my training partner anyways, I really would prefer to have a strong main to make the games more even. Also I cant just buy a NTSC version of melee and play, i need to have a NTSC-console as well, right? I can't say how bad PAL Sheik is, but if you need to you could always get a Wii and mod it to play the NTSC version of Melee. There are also other ways of bypassing it but I have never tried it myself. | ||
Archeon
3235 Posts
On April 12 2014 12:14 Shinshady wrote: How long do you normally practice for? I try practicing at least 30 minutes to an hour a day when I have the time (this time will increase after school is over). If you really need to try doing hand exercises, but I'm used to playing all types of video games for long periods of time so maybe it's not fair to compare. I have a friend who has hand problems so he plays the game on and off, but if you really need to try wearing gloves. I can't give you good advice as fox but as Falco when you D-air to shield poke if you don't actually get the attack through make sure it was going past his shield. This way he needs to turn around before he grabs and if you l-cancel correctly you should be able to punish it with a shine. If you can't do that really well you could always try spot dodging after the approach but try not to get into the habit of doing so as better players will punish you. Also try to approach differently (for both characters) and if you need to just play campy. Sheik actually can be played decently without advanced tech to be honest. I can't say how bad PAL Sheik is, but if you need to you could always get a Wii and mod it to play the NTSC version of Melee. There are also other ways of bypassing it but I have never tried it myself. Thanks, never thought of that. | ||
Zamkis
Canada114 Posts
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darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
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Zamkis
Canada114 Posts
On April 12 2014 05:10 BlackPride wrote: Hey a buddy of mine plays sheik and is awfully defensive. I get shield-grabbed a ridiculous amount every game as fox and falco and just don't know how to combat it. The guy hardly wavedashes, isn't even trying to L-cancel and seldomuses any other advanced techniques. I do, and have pretty decent mechanics and tech for a relatively new player, yet I cannot beat this shield-grabbing. What can I do? I know its vague, but any advice will help. Spacies have a ridiculous defensive game with their lasers, so you can simply abuse it and force any defensive player to approach. You can also try to land behind him, putting you safely out of the grab option. Another option is to empty jump, also known as tomahawk, leaving you with no landing lag, so while he will be expecting to shield an attack then grab, you can beat him by simply landing and grabbing his shield. Hope that helps a bit, learning new techniques will sometimes (most of the times for me) put you at a disadvantage until you get it down. | ||
Zamkis
Canada114 Posts
On April 12 2014 13:30 darthfoley wrote: Must've missed it. What's the difference between PAL and NTSC? Quite a few tweaks were made to several moves in an attempt to "patch" the game up. A quick google search as led me to this list : List of regional version differences Most of them are nerfs, Fox smashes getting hit pretty hard, along with Sheik's downthrow game and Marth/Falco spikes being different (Marth is a Meteor Smash and Falco only spikes for the first half) | ||
JohnChoi
1773 Posts
On April 12 2014 14:11 Zamkis wrote: Spacies have a ridiculous defensive game with their lasers, so you can simply abuse it and force any defensive player to approach. You can also try to land behind him, putting you safely out of the grab option. Another option is to empty jump, also known as tomahawk, leaving you with no landing lag, so while he will be expecting to shield an attack then grab, you can beat him by simply landing and grabbing his shield. Hope that helps a bit, learning new techniques will sometimes (most of the times for me) put you at a disadvantage until you get it down. I felt this was true for me playing 64 too. was much better to learn how to properly space and predict/read the opponent. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule18773 Posts
On April 12 2014 14:15 Zamkis wrote: Quite a few tweaks were made to several moves in an attempt to "patch" the game up. A quick google search as led me to this list : List of regional version differences Most of them are nerfs, Fox smashes getting hit pretty hard, along with Sheik's downthrow game and Marth/Falco spikes being different (Marth is a Meteor Smash and Falco only spikes for the first half) If you're going to reference a wiki, reference SSBwiki. It's much better than the wikia version, even though it too is out of date http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_regional_version_differences_(SSBM) | ||
Thrillz
4313 Posts
On April 12 2014 05:10 BlackPride wrote: Hey a buddy of mine plays sheik and is awfully defensive. I get shield-grabbed a ridiculous amount every game as fox and falco and just don't know how to combat it. The guy hardly wavedashes, isn't even trying to L-cancel and seldomuses any other advanced techniques. I do, and have pretty decent mechanics and tech for a relatively new player, yet I cannot beat this shield-grabbing. What can I do? I know its vague, but any advice will help. If you can L-cancel with spacies you shouldn't be gettting shieldgrabbed alot, esp. against someone who doesn't know advance techniques. | ||
teeeckskay
United States58 Posts
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Kashll
United States1117 Posts
On April 13 2014 12:48 teeeckskay wrote: i mean L-canceling doesn't make you necessarily space well or time your hits late enough on shield or act on the first frame after landlag. getting away with hitting a shield isn't really that easy. even watching pretty good players in tournaments, you'll see plenty of stuff that should get shield grabbed not get punished just because players at that level (like intermediate-good; top level players will generally notice and punish) assume that the pressure is going to be tight and well spaced. when your opponent doesn't already have that assumption and respect for what you're doing and is going to try and shieldgrab everything you do, then you actually need to be even better at it kind of. Going along that line of reasoning let's say that I'm approaching the level that I am actually getting good at sffl into shine at the point where i can hit it fairly consistently. My opponents have been conditioned (by my earlier lack of tech skill) to still try to shield grab way more than is optimal. Assuming I do something like nair into their shield then L-Cancel shine to hit them out of their shield grab, what are some bread-butter ideas for efficient follow-ups/punishes? (I play fox). The problem is that my opponents are STILL shield grabbing too much, knowing that if I knock them out of it with a shine it's only 5% damage, whereas if I fuck up and they do get the grab and some followup it's way more than that. (For reference I can wavedash out of shine pretty consistently at this point, but for some reason it never really turns into anything meaningful for me). | ||
Poilon
France139 Posts
On April 15 2014 18:30 Kashll wrote: The problem is that my opponents are STILL shield grabbing too much, knowing that if I knock them out of it with a shine it's only 5% damage, whereas if I fuck up and they do get the grab and some followup it's way more than that. (For reference I can wavedash out of shine pretty consistently at this point, but for some reason it never really turns into anything meaningful for me). This is your problem, you need to learn how to punish after that. If they are not punished for their mistakes, why will they stop ? After a shine with fox, your ennemi is either on the ground (if a fast faller), either he'll be combo-able easily with like a grab for example, or an upsmash. If on the ground with no tech, you punsih with a nair or upsmash, if he tech, you try to follow and keep the momentum. And when grabbed, you need to upthrow upair or stuff like this. Even better, you put him in an edgeguardable situation where you could possibly kill him, make him stress a little bit, and then he'll respect your game to another point | ||
plzrelax_
25 Posts
On April 15 2014 18:30 Kashll wrote: Going along that line of reasoning let's say that I'm approaching the level that I am actually getting good at sffl into shine at the point where i can hit it fairly consistently. My opponents have been conditioned (by my earlier lack of tech skill) to still try to shield grab way more than is optimal. Assuming I do something like nair into their shield then L-Cancel shine to hit them out of their shield grab, what are some bread-butter ideas for efficient follow-ups/punishes? (I play fox). The problem is that my opponents are STILL shield grabbing too much, knowing that if I knock them out of it with a shine it's only 5% damage, whereas if I fuck up and they do get the grab and some followup it's way more than that. (For reference I can wavedash out of shine pretty consistently at this point, but for some reason it never really turns into anything meaningful for me). If you're hitting your waveshines consistently it should be pretty easy to follow it up with something meaningful. Especially against sheik - you can hit her with pretty much any move you want really. I still think you should work on spacing your aerials in such a way that you hit their shield but you're out of grab range. That will help you in the long run by improving your spacing. I can post a few matches as examples if you want. | ||
BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
On April 15 2014 18:30 Kashll wrote: Going along that line of reasoning let's say that I'm approaching the level that I am actually getting good at sffl into shine at the point where i can hit it fairly consistently. My opponents have been conditioned (by my earlier lack of tech skill) to still try to shield grab way more than is optimal. Assuming I do something like nair into their shield then L-Cancel shine to hit them out of their shield grab, what are some bread-butter ideas for efficient follow-ups/punishes? (I play fox). The problem is that my opponents are STILL shield grabbing too much, knowing that if I knock them out of it with a shine it's only 5% damage, whereas if I fuck up and they do get the grab and some followup it's way more than that. (For reference I can wavedash out of shine pretty consistently at this point, but for some reason it never really turns into anything meaningful for me). Hitting someone with a shine, especially a sheik, is a really big deal lol It's like, shine, grab, uair + juggle you got garuanteed 25% + garuanteed kill above 100% + juggle on platform (garunteed if right below) Foxes punishes on sheik are pretty huge and usually it only takes 1-2 punishes to get a stock As for sheik in PAL, shes still top tier but you have to learn to play completely differently | ||
darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
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Zamkis
Canada114 Posts
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Kashll
United States1117 Posts
On April 15 2014 18:42 Poilon wrote: This is your problem, you need to learn how to punish after that. If they are not punished for their mistakes, why will they stop ? After a shine with fox, your ennemi is either on the ground (if a fast faller), either he'll be combo-able easily with like a grab for example, or an upsmash. If on the ground with no tech, you punsih with a nair or upsmash, if he tech, you try to follow and keep the momentum. And when grabbed, you need to upthrow upair or stuff like this. Even better, you put him in an edgeguardable situation where you could possibly kill him, make him stress a little bit, and then he'll respect your game to another point Yeah I really think I need to learn to space my n-airs betters. Spacing b-air is much easier. Let's say I shine a fast-faller and he hits the ground with no tech? Are you saying I want to try to wavedash nair, or nair directly out of shine? In my experience i just get get-up attacked if i try pressure like this, which is maybe a sign that i'm too slow (or does it only work at very high percents where they bounce a lot?) BrTarolg wrote: Hitting someone with a shine, especially a sheik, is a really big deal lol It's like, shine, grab, uair + juggle you got garuanteed 25% + garuanteed kill above 100% + juggle on platform (garunteed if right below) Stuff like that is what I need to work on. Are you saying it's possible to shine, wavedash, grab a sheik 100%? Or is it a shine directly into a jump-canceled grab? (it seems like the latter is too short range to work). Whenever I waveshine someone I either run right into a getup attack (if it knocks them down), or end up too far so I'm grabbing behind their shield (which then gets punished). Ironically when they tech is when i end up the best because at least then i can try to chase them and setup some more decently spaced pressure. | ||
Yomi-no-Kuni
Germany333 Posts
Shine->wavedash towards ->punish (usually you will want to Usmash to kill, grab to combo, shine to continue shining) However, you could fsmash, downsmash, fair, dashattack, downtilt (actually legit), NAIR, uair, bair, dair->shine, ftilt, utilt, jab, . . .) # You should check out a Fox guide on Smashboards, it'd probably give you lots of necessary basics vs characters that get knocked down you can nair if you are quick and they don't tech, (if you're quick enough you can do alot, but it's harder) First thing you should learn is Jab reset though. It's important vs fastfallers (Fox/Falco) and occasionally works against marth. Some characters (luigi/ICs) will slide very far, making a grab impossible, but in that case shine acts as a method to get them into a corner or even offstage and keep working from there (but as alawys, if you're quick enough you can get shine->nair vs slidy characters or other shiz.) | ||
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