@RTS-spread: If you take the times into account, BW was in a time when people had lower expectations and were willing to go the extra mile for a good game. Stuff like the SC worker macro and the mega balance patches later on would massively limit it's growth if it was released today. Wc3 was a lot more friendly to new players.
Dawn of War III - Page 16
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Archeon
3235 Posts
@RTS-spread: If you take the times into account, BW was in a time when people had lower expectations and were willing to go the extra mile for a good game. Stuff like the SC worker macro and the mega balance patches later on would massively limit it's growth if it was released today. Wc3 was a lot more friendly to new players. | ||
ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
I'm playing as Orks and I'm having some trouble against Space Marine players who get a lot of assault marines early with the Kill Team elite equipped with flamethrowers, then transition into a later game mech army with dreadnoughts and eventually predator tanks and whatnot. I find that the assault marines are so good vs early Ork armies that I have to play pretty passively and sit on one or maybe two resource points early game (depending on the map). Lately I've been getting 2 squads of boyz, then going directly for 2 lootas (skipping boyz hut) and a truck along with Stormboyz and Zapnoggin. I can make a timing push here that leads to a pretty equal fight that comes down to micro to determine the winner. But the SM player seems to have a pretty significant defender's advantage since I'm normally forced to push into a listening post to try to do any damage. I occasionally do enough damage here to get some map control and be able to expand a little and get my economy going, but other times I lose the fight and end up in an even worse position. This build seems to be pretty volatile and depends a lot on getting big hits with Zapnoggin's fist and Stormboyz kamikaze, which isn't always reliable. Any Ork players here that have had success against Space Marines? If so, care to share your thoughts on the matchup and what your general strategy is? | ||
Archeon
3235 Posts
I've read that rushing lootas and trucks is the right strat though, keep the asm bound in melee with boys and keep your lootas safe with truck micro. Commando is an option for stun mine next to your lootas. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13372 Posts
Then they have two abilities with the doctrine to chase and its even harder to stay alive vs them. I play a lot of Eldar, and if I don't control my striking scorpions properly I can't win, seems to be the same issue for many others. The issue with Orks is I'm not sure if they really have an early game solution to the speed with which ASM spam comes out other than maybe doing some sort of rush? ASM is very power heavy early game so they have next to no units. If you can force them to invest in more scouts early game, that might help you out with buying time to trukks? The main thing I've seen about ASM is that if you can outmaneuver from range and do any AoE to land on them, they fall apart pretty quick. So hitting them when they use their mobility spells to engage with a suicide guy from the trukk should go pretty far :D | ||
Archeon
3235 Posts
Also trucks are a lot worse than against Eldar bc once power swords hits the SM can snipe the truck easily. Nobz do well, but they are basically a t2 unit and way too late. I'm not sure how boyz fare in a direct fight with scrap. Shootas with sraps fare okay, but scrap is a problem in the early game. The two real options are probably either rushing and trying to hit the barracks with the boyz before ASM appear (ASM rush plays 0 units pre-rax), or get a bunch of boyz fodder, a truck and some lootaz and use the truck to evacuate the lootaz once they jump them. And yes, a lot of people are expecting that power swords is gonna get a t2 or t3 requirement in the next balance patch. ASM opening is the dominant meta opening atm that every competitive build has to be able to deal with. | ||
Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13372 Posts
On May 15 2017 11:47 Archeon wrote: I don't think the Eldar approach, baiting out the jumps and then punish with grenades or banshee-charges works for Orks. According to my (little) experience non-scrap boys get slaughtered by ASM. Without scrap their shootas also can't cc ASMs. Also trucks are a lot worse than against Eldar bc once power swords hits the SM can snipe the truck easily. Nobz do well, but they are basically a t2 unit and way too late. I'm not sure how boyz fare in a direct fight with scrap. Shootas with sraps fare okay, but scrap is a problem in the early game. The two real options are probably either rushing and trying to hit the barracks with the boyz before ASM appear (ASM rush plays 0 units pre-rax), or get a bunch of boyz fodder, a truck and some lootaz and use the truck to evacuate the lootaz once they jump them. And yes, a lot of people are expecting that power swords is gonna get a t2 or t3 requirement in the next balance patch. ASM opening is the dominant meta opening atm that every competitive build has to be able to deal with. Well I know that its not the same as playing eldar to do orks vs ASM I think the main issue with asm spam is just how much they melt buildings with their high mobility. So its really hard to spread out since they have tons of map control at that point. I don't think that the 2 EP ork elites can fight them well either unless they spam their suicide boy ability? Thats pretty strong defensively. And sure they can jump on trukks but if they do then you can punish them with your boyz who will either launch into their faces for a CC or they'll bleed models -- and reinforcing asm with true damage swords is quite pricey. The boyz probably need the stun on melee charge doctrine as well if you want to even stand a chance. And if you dont scrap up the boyz, you could scrap up the shootas for their stikk bombs which do quite a bit of damage. The biggest thing about ASM is their assault charge or whatever the doctrine the ven dread gives them. That thing melts T1 units. | ||
Archeon
3235 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17046 Posts
I dunno. I'll give it some more chances but my hopes are pretty low at this point. | ||
RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17046 Posts
On August 28 2017 01:00 RolleMcKnolle wrote: In case you are feeling nostalgic, there is still a small but very active community around DoWpro. A mod aimed to improve competitive Gameplay and balance. In case you are interested you can just hop over to our Discord https://discordapp.com/invite/nN8Nxsx. Or just download the mod here http://www.moddb.com/mods/dowpro/downloads/dowpro-soulstorm-359-full-version with the newest update here http://www.moddb.com/mods/dowpro/downloads/dowpro-soulstorm-364-update I actually like DoW2 more than the original one. I still like to watch me some faction wars: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOwxs4qK99SMFadc1ewH5F_KsfIKakaOK | ||
deffscream
6 Posts
On August 28 2017 01:00 RolleMcKnolle wrote: In case you are feeling nostalgic, there is still a small but very active community around DoWpro. A mod aimed to improve competitive Gameplay and balance. In case you are interested you can just hop over to our Discord https://discordapp.com/invite/nN8Nxsx. Or just download the mod here http://www.moddb.com/mods/dowpro/downloads/dowpro-soulstorm-359-full-version with the newest update here http://www.moddb.com/mods/dowpro/downloads/dowpro-soulstorm-364-update DOW pro for serious Gameplay and Ultimate Apocalypse for Tabletop madness | ||
Manit0u
Poland17046 Posts
I gave this game another go (had to pretty much force myself to do so). This is simply not a DoW game at all. There are super long and boring periods of nothing happening in a game (just building/upgrading stuff) instead of constant tug-of-war and vying for map control with plenty of skirmishes in-between. Power core, WTF? Cover bubble instead of good old cover, WTF?! 2 (yes, that's TWO) armour types and 3 damage types? No more destructible terrain (which looks super weird when all of those huge units walk through the walls without destroying them). Micro is pretty much just for using special abilities now. Bullshit about bases being back (unless you count 5 buildings top as a real base). Huge armies being back is pretty much bullshit too since it's a byproduct of long periods of stagnation when you build tons of stuff which is there just to blob and be obliterated in seconds with elites without doing much most of the time (which leads to another period of stagnation). Unless you play it more like previous titles with more action, then you never have a lot of units because they're being recycled all the time and you can't build a real mass of them. Turrets feel super weird too, like some dumb stuff straight out of MOBA... Even customization is dumbed down and worthless. It blows real hard My time was wasted. I've been thoroughly disappointed with this title and feel betrayed by Relic now. I can only quote ArchWarhammer here: "Failure of apocalyptic proportions." | ||
Rococo
United States331 Posts
On May 02 2017 20:39 superstartran wrote: Even BW being the best RTS is arguable. Most competitive in Korea for sure, and very high quality. However I don't think it ever held the same global appeal as something like WC3 or SC2 did/do. Sure, it's popular among its niche audience, but it never really took off in the West like those two games did. I feel like you're conflating success as an e-sport with general popularity. Starcraft never had much of an e-sports scene outside of Korea but we could hardly call The Sims niche for not being an e-sport. Even excluding Korean sales Starcraft is either the #2 or #3 best-selling RTS of all time and much more successful than Warcraft 3 was. RTS games in general aren't very popular anymore but saying that Starcraft never "took off in the West" like Warcraft 3 has no basis. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
the Game Director for Dawn of War 3 left Relic August 25th. | ||
cha0
Canada485 Posts
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Latham
9507 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands20757 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17046 Posts
On September 01 2017 01:43 Gorsameth wrote: ah Space Marine, one of the few games to capture the feel of being a walking tank carrying around an rpg-machine gun and a chainsaw sword. Man, this game was boss. I can't really recall any other game right now that would make you feel so badass from the beginning to end (not even Saints Row). Also, I like 40k and my Steam is a testament to that... I also have every single DLC for those (the only one I regret is DoW3). Pity GW is going to extreme lengths to copyright everything, changing stuff, renaming things etc. Just so that they can sue everyone and don't have to concern themselves with people who actually buy their products... | ||
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