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On May 04 2016 11:37 zf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 07:09 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2016 06:55 teapot wrote: DoW2 is so underrated. It was a great game. Such a shame if Relic have caved into these vocal base-building dummies. I know all they want is to AFK in their base and build a big blob and A-move it at the enemy. *sigh*
Relic's RTS with CoH and DoW2 were going in a nice CP resources/VP which I liked a lot. More movement and map control. It feels good once you get a feel for it. I hope it's closer to this model than turtle in base and produce 500 worker units =/ I agree and I hope there are no worker units to control. I can deal with building a base to work out of, but I would rather go out on the map to collect resources. I strongly dislike worker units who's only job is to build things, collect $$$ and die. I like your politics, but your taste in video games is awful! :-p Variety is the spice of life. I want new experiences and mechanics. Rehashing the same old games gets dull.
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From what I read , dow 1 style base building is back , and there are these huge units !!!! FUCK YES !
But serious , Space Marines , Eldar & Orcs........It just doesnt't feel like DOW without Chaos , I said the same thing when vanilla DOW 2 came out , then they got their own game , perhaps something like this will go down.
But I was really hoping for some necron action, this race really needs a come back.
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On May 04 2016 11:04 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 03:51 Assault_1 wrote:On May 03 2016 23:16 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2016 23:09 Assault_1 wrote:On May 03 2016 20:54 Faruko wrote: DoW 2 was great, the mp was fun, the loot was cool and the campaign was really well done
If they want this game to survive, do not make it an RTS, dead genre. why is the RTS genre on life support, is it just hard to make them good? They don’t do anything new, ever. RTS do the same thing every time. You start with limited or no unit, you build up an army and one side snow balls to victory. Special units are rarely scene because games end before that happens. You fight for control of a blank map that you must take over. The victory condition is terrible, forcing the other side to quit, or just drag the game out. They focus on a very specific type of gameplay that revolves around juggling a lot of balls at once(micro, macro), but rarely focus on anything but adding more balls to juggle to increase “difficulty”. I said this before, but give me a game where I own a 1/3 of the map already, with a 1/3 noman’s land to fight over. I have a robust economy right off the bat and I have to protect it from my enemy. Make is so I can’t rebuild things, so losses matter. Do all the things mobas do right by giving people clear objectives to fight over and a clear end game. I don't think your assessment is correct. Look at FPS games, the most copy/pasted genre ever and it never changes. Why can't RTS get away with doing that? I love that you get to start from a simple base in bw, thats how it should be, you build yourself up. Your ideas are maybe better for the singleplayer campaign. I think the answer to why RTS is dying has more to with people seeing them as intellectual games and not as fun in general. Also I noticed with my friends, they have no problem buying a game , beating it in 10 hours then moving to the next. Maybe I'm just an oddball but I like to focus on playing a very small set of games for months/years. For me I basically just grew up on diablo 2/starcraft/counterstrike (which turns out to be the best of each genre). I'd like to figure a way to breath life into RTS games again.. I can't believe snooze games like LoL are doing so much better. FPS actually evolved and started with more action and less boring cycles from the get go. Things like regenerating health-bars, first person cutscenes, cover systems and limited weapon slots are big reasons why the scene is still alive (although I don't like many of them). You just have to look at the size of the oldschool communities (Quake, UT, Doom) and compare them to the real selling titles like battlefield and CoD. Given, they have less production value. CS:GO has 21 million owners. I don't think you know what you are talking about.
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On May 04 2016 07:09 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 06:55 teapot wrote: DoW2 is so underrated. It was a great game. Such a shame if Relic have caved into these vocal base-building dummies. I know all they want is to AFK in their base and build a big blob and A-move it at the enemy. *sigh*
Relic's RTS with CoH and DoW2 were going in a nice CP resources/VP which I liked a lot. More movement and map control. It feels good once you get a feel for it. I hope it's closer to this model than turtle in base and produce 500 worker units =/ I agree and I hope there are no worker units to control. I can deal with building a base to work out of, but I would rather go out on the map to collect resources. I strongly dislike worker units who's only job is to build things, collect $$$ and die.
Not sure if you guys are forgetting or whatever, but you had workers and base building in DoW1, with the aspect of having to control CP's to gain resources, and relics to gain final tech options. It worked out great. Hopefully they stick with something like that, instead of something like a C&C/Starcraft. I think they will, too, since it's what they have experience with.
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Only thing that bothers me so far(based on screenshots) are the colors. The space marinies look fine but the eldar palettes are so bright, color wise. It's probably due to the army builder though, at least I hope so.
Also, seems like other races are going to be DLCs? I sincerely doubt Relic would just stick with 3 races. It's not a DoW game without Chaos at least, and maybe necrons.
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France7248 Posts
for dow2, they announced the tyranids much later, so we can only hope they announce a 4th or even 5th later too I think they'll do as dow2 tho, and add new races with expansions (like Chaos & Imperial Guard)... (or DLC)
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On May 04 2016 21:39 Yhamm wrote: for dow2, they announced the tyranids much later, so we can only hope they announce a 4th or even 5th later too I think they'll do as dow2 tho, and add new races with expansions (like Chaos & Imperial Guard)... (or DLC)
The information that they released so far indicates that it's only three races for this game, specifically in the steam page for the game where it mentions the war being between three factions. Probably will have expansions with more, if their past games are any hint, however.
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tbh, if it has last stand mode im pretty happy.
DoW2 Last Stand was one of the best coop modes in any rts ever created, well worth it
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France7248 Posts
there are 3 playable races in the solo campaign, it doesn't mean there can't be more for the multiplayer (or that you can even play against in the campaign)
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On May 04 2016 21:07 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 07:09 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2016 06:55 teapot wrote: DoW2 is so underrated. It was a great game. Such a shame if Relic have caved into these vocal base-building dummies. I know all they want is to AFK in their base and build a big blob and A-move it at the enemy. *sigh*
Relic's RTS with CoH and DoW2 were going in a nice CP resources/VP which I liked a lot. More movement and map control. It feels good once you get a feel for it. I hope it's closer to this model than turtle in base and produce 500 worker units =/ I agree and I hope there are no worker units to control. I can deal with building a base to work out of, but I would rather go out on the map to collect resources. I strongly dislike worker units who's only job is to build things, collect $$$ and die. Not sure if you guys are forgetting or whatever, but you had workers and base building in DoW1, with the aspect of having to control CP's to gain resources, and relics to gain final tech options. It worked out great. Hopefully they stick with something like that, instead of something like a C&C/Starcraft. I think they will, too, since it's what they have experience with. I loved DoW 1, but I felt the workers were pretty superfluous and didn’t add a lot to the game. Expect the snotlings, which were super amusing. But they didn’t do much else but beyond be a menu for what you wanted to build. CoH had combat engineers and I think that is a much better route for base building in a game like DoW. Each race can have its own flavor of combat engineers, which also add something to a fight.
I hope they go a better route with vehicles this time. The worst part of DoW was sinking power into anti vehicle tech just to deal with one dreadnaught. I always felt CoH did it better with more infantry based options to deal with tanks that were microed poorly or caught off guard.
Edit: I’ll be ok with 3 races if they are robust and varied. DoW2 felt a little thin with 4. I get people don’t like DLC races added later on, but I don’t mind dropping like $15 for a new multiplayer race later on. I would rather that route than the full expansion model, because long term it means I might get to play Tau, Dark Eldar or Necrons. Mostly Tau.
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On May 04 2016 22:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 21:07 goiflin wrote:On May 04 2016 07:09 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2016 06:55 teapot wrote: DoW2 is so underrated. It was a great game. Such a shame if Relic have caved into these vocal base-building dummies. I know all they want is to AFK in their base and build a big blob and A-move it at the enemy. *sigh*
Relic's RTS with CoH and DoW2 were going in a nice CP resources/VP which I liked a lot. More movement and map control. It feels good once you get a feel for it. I hope it's closer to this model than turtle in base and produce 500 worker units =/ I agree and I hope there are no worker units to control. I can deal with building a base to work out of, but I would rather go out on the map to collect resources. I strongly dislike worker units who's only job is to build things, collect $$$ and die. Not sure if you guys are forgetting or whatever, but you had workers and base building in DoW1, with the aspect of having to control CP's to gain resources, and relics to gain final tech options. It worked out great. Hopefully they stick with something like that, instead of something like a C&C/Starcraft. I think they will, too, since it's what they have experience with. I loved DoW 1, but I felt the workers were pretty superfluous and didn’t add a lot to the game. Expect the snotlings, which were super amusing. But they didn’t do much else but beyond be a menu for what you wanted to build. CoH had combat engineers and I think that is a much better route for base building in a game like DoW. Each race can have its own flavor of combat engineers, which also add something to a fight. I hope they go a better route with vehicles this time. The worst part of DoW was sinking power into anti vehicle tech just to deal with one dreadnaught. I always felt CoH did it better with more infantry based options to deal with tanks that were microed poorly or caught off guard. Edit: I’ll be ok with 3 races if they are robust and varied. DoW2 felt a little thin with 4. I get people don’t like DLC races added later on, but I don’t mind dropping like $15 for a new multiplayer race later on. I would rather that route than the full expansion model, because long term it means I might get to play Tau, Dark Eldar or Necrons. Mostly Tau. As someone who played DoW quite extensively in Multiplayer (modded and unmodded) I can tell you that you are wrong. workers were an integral part of how games played out. not regarding mods where they got even more important (bomb-planitng-grretchin, capable-fightin-sob-worker), even in the base game there was an important focus on workers. Examples: Chaos worker: a big weakness of Chaos were their very fragile workers, and one of the std early games was worker hunting in the chaos base. good bm movement was able to bring you a huge early game lead in OvC. Eldar: There were times when eldar worker were used for scouting and binding, since their teleport allowed for very early movement, u were able to assess the enemy strategy early. Yes wraithtomb wasnt used that much into the later expansions of DoW, but there were times when it was used to great effect, when DoW was still played competitevely. Servitor: kinda boring unit tbh Gretchin: despite being hilarious they also were good scouting tools and very well suited to block fleeing rhinos.
For vehicles it seems as if you mainly played the early versions of DoW. Unfortunately they moved away from the hardcounter system used in Vanilla. So the amount of av u had to produce was rather limited. but then even in earlier games av wasnt just produced to kill that one dread, since av usually also worked great against buildings and was rocket-based, so had a large range.
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I think you missed my point that all of those abilities could have been on a unit that was useful in combat in some way. That is the way Relic went with CoH and it added a lot of depth to how “worker” units were used in that game.
And vehicles were more of a problem in DoW 2, where it was this real binary state of "useful" or "useless". I liked DoW 1 model a lot better, where the anti armor units were more evenly distributed.
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Remember, most of these screenshots are in pre-Alpha
graphics and optimization comes out later, just look at the early DoW 2 screens, its almost the same
Also Dat true looking Wraithbone
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The game looks fine from the screenshots. The only problem I see is that its too bright which is totally fixable.
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The start (Czevak quote or whatever his name is) made me think about tyranids ; the quote is about tyranid invasion in the lore if I reckon well. Maybe the campaign is about space marine, eldars and orks vs tyranids.
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Terran Protoss and Zerg XD
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On May 04 2016 09:23 Pr0wler wrote: Well at least with DoW2 Relic showed that they want to inovate and they will probably do it with DoW3, too. The problem now is that they are owned by Sega and that means : 1. The game will be released unfinished, because deadlines. 2. Day one DLC. 3. Countless other DLCs after that.
the Sega/Relic team produced CoH2 which still has an active multiplayer community. Sega picked Relic off the scrap heap and continued to fund a game in its fetal stages of development. Give Sega some cred man.
if the Sega/Relic team can repeat the success of CoH2 we're in for some good fun. i got no problem spending money on a good game..
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On May 04 2016 22:48 Plansix wrote: I think you missed my point that all of those abilities could have been on a unit that was useful in combat in some way. That is the way Relic went with CoH and it added a lot of depth to how “worker” units were used in that game.
And vehicles were more of a problem in DoW 2, where it was this real binary state of "useful" or "useless". I liked DoW 1 model a lot better, where the anti armor units were more evenly distributed. What you said was that the workers added nothing to the game. And i gave you reasons why they did. Just because you kept your workers idle in ur base it doesnt mean it was like this for everyone else. I don't really think giving them the ability to shoot more does add that much to the game, when you have the ability to do other things with them. They add depth in many ways. not every unit has to be at the frontline. Especially in a harass-heavy game like DoW.
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France7248 Posts
On May 05 2016 03:37 iamCHOMP wrote: Terran Protoss and Zerg XD yeah... it's the other way around though
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On May 05 2016 03:47 RolleMcKnolle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2016 22:48 Plansix wrote: I think you missed my point that all of those abilities could have been on a unit that was useful in combat in some way. That is the way Relic went with CoH and it added a lot of depth to how “worker” units were used in that game.
And vehicles were more of a problem in DoW 2, where it was this real binary state of "useful" or "useless". I liked DoW 1 model a lot better, where the anti armor units were more evenly distributed. What you said was that the workers added nothing to the game. And i gave you reasons why they did. Just because you kept your workers idle in ur base it doesnt mean it was like this for everyone else. I don't really think giving them the ability to shoot more does add that much to the game, when you have the ability to do other things with them. They add depth in many ways. not every unit has to be at the frontline. Especially in a harass-heavy game like DoW. I specifically said in DoW1 they felt superfluous and then cited the design in CoH for an alternative type of unit with similar abilities. In previous discussions about RTSs in general I have said that I don’t like workers as a design, since are passive units and can be a time sink.
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