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On December 19 2011 21:44 Vallros wrote:It's fucking wrong.. Skyrim literally stole 2 weeks of my life. Felt so helpless Mee too. All those missed meals. Lessons forgotten. Parties unattended.
But its fucking all worth it!
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I'd look for problems somewhere else if you feel like games in the last 10 years have been addicting.
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Speaking from my own experience, I played Runescape and I was quite addicted to the game. The thing is, when you're playing a game for 6 hours a day there is nothing else going on in your life, so eventually it becomes a decision -- do I look at a wall or play the video game instead.
The line can't really be made, so to me it's all video games or none of them, and I think video games should be here to stay.
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On December 20 2011 00:47 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 00:37 gruff wrote:On December 20 2011 00:15 FADCoUltra wrote:On December 19 2011 16:36 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 19 2011 15:18 Humanfails wrote: Anything designed to exploit weak people is wrong. Which is why there's laws against selling crack. Which is why McDonalds was forced to remove additives that addicted people to it's food. Every company looks for that angle to addict people to its product. When people are genetically prone to addiction in the first place, someone exploiting that addiction is guilty of harming another individual directly for money. mcdonalds? o.o didn't know what kind of stuff? like chemicals? also i said slightly twisted cus ppl are allowed to sell alcohol and drugs which addict u There is nothing in McD's food that make you addicted to it. It's just urban legend. It's no mystery that people like greecy and salty food. There is nothing in *insert game of choice* that make you addicted to it. It's just urban legend. It's no mystery that people like games using well known behavioral mechanisms to manipulate gamers compulsions for playing. You heavily contradict yourself here, first you say games have nothing which makes you addicted to it. Then you say it's no mystery... compulsion for playing (read, makes you addictive to it) I'm also aware that it's no mystery, but alot of people don't. And I think it should be on the box, just like with gambling everybody 'knows' it's addictive, but i believe this is not the case for gaming. So people can make a conscious decision to play a game, and to be vulnerable to these kind of addiction.
This is what I'm talking about. Some people are more susceptible to gaming addiction than others, no news here, same with any other forms of addiction. Education and awareness is the key. To be able to recognize the signs and symptoms. Not changing the games themselves. Just like alcohol and gambling, big brother coming in to force enforce alcohol content limit in liquor and changing the rules of black jack is not the answer.
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The sad fact of the industry is, these additions to games are needed...nay, DEMANDED... by the consumer. If a game ships these days without any sort of achievement system or unlock tree or collectible whatever, it gets chided in the reviews as a game with "low replayability". Developers, like modern Holywood execs, generally have to create a final product that appeals more to the masses than to the descriminating afficionado, or else they get eaten alive.
Look at Team Bondi... L.A. Noire was a great, unique, and well-crafted game with very limited replayability because it didn't put as many of these elements into the game as it could have, and so Bondi gets shitcanned and subsequent DLC along with it. It's why most releases these days are all sequels -- they've found a formula that works. People cry that MW3 is just MW2.5, but they still play it, based on the multitude of unlocks, achievements, prestige modes, callsigns, etc., and it's since reflected the fact that people demand that sort of stuff by becoming the best selling game ever.
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On December 20 2011 00:58 Rob28 wrote: The sad fact of the industry is, these additions to games are needed...nay, DEMANDED... by the consumer. If a game ships these days without any sort of achievement system or unlock tree or collectible whatever, it gets chided in the reviews as a game with "low replayability". Developers, like modern Holywood execs, generally have to create a final product that appeals more to the masses than to the descriminating afficionado, or else they get eaten alive.
Look at Team Bondi... L.A. Noire was a great, unique, and well-crafted game with very limited replayability because it didn't put as many of these elements into the game as it could have, and so Bondi gets shitcanned and subsequent DLC along with it. It's why most releases these days are all sequels -- they've found a formula that works. People cry that MW3 is just MW2.5, but they still play it, based on the multitude of unlocks, achievements, prestige modes, callsigns, etc., and it's since reflected the fact that people demand that sort of stuff by becoming the best selling game ever.
Well put Rob28.
Don't hate the player, hate the game...well...in this case, don't hate the game, hate the system...I mean...not the gaming system, the industr...ah forget it...
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On December 20 2011 00:27 MHT wrote: Used to play WoW for about a year and a half until i figured this out, felt like what i did was more of a job than fun. Don't think I'll be able to play an MMO again since they all pretty much following the same principles, grind=profit. Bro it was all about camping tarren mill yo lol!!!
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Im addicted to fun, I cant help myself. If its fun I generally want to do it. Game designers that make fun games whether its hardcore strategy like sc2 or light and fluffy silliness like wii bowling have targeted my weakness.
Fun peddling dealers of happiness so unethical!!
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Funny, with WoW I stopped playing at like level 25 when the leveling up started taking to long. I was not prepared to spend longer to get the same reward. I don't care about achievements at all, I haven't purposefully tried to achieve one in my life (talking game achievements not real life ones). Hell I got bored of skyrim after less than 10 hours of gameplay (I didn't even finish a single quest line). I don't even play starcraft anymore. These game makers don't target the things I get hooked on. I don't even remember the last game which blew me away with awesomeness.That is a lie, it was Final Fantasy 8, sad that that was over 10 years ago and since then and nothing has come close for me (admittedly it was mainly the story, the game play did get repetitive with all the drawing of magic). It is why I have all but given up on games, I pretty much just read now to get my jollys where I discover something which makes my feet tingle every other month.
So I don't get this addictive gaming thing, to me it just looks like they are just making games stupid and forcing me to go find entertainment elsewhere.
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While it's a little bit on the text-heavy side i'd encourage everyone to read this brilliant little article and look into the makings and heads behind (casual) games. http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-ghost-story/
Look guys nobody here is trying to take away your candy (games) or secretly change them into vegetables, and as long as we have actual gamedesigners making our games we're fine for the most part. BUT even companies like our dear Blizzard see this kind of practice (pretty much hiring psychologists to extort the maximum amount of money) and start to apply little things that work (Diablo 3, et tu brute).
Addictive videogames designed by learned game professionals = okay Addictive videogames designed by psychologists = yuck
(i'm not trying to be elititst anti-casual games, there are just so many black sheep)
On December 20 2011 01:36 Egyptian_Head wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Funny, with WoW I stopped playing at like level 25 when the leveling up started taking to long. I was not prepared to spend longer to get the same reward. I don't care about achievements at all, I haven't purposefully tried to achieve one in my life (talking game achievements not real life ones). Hell I got bored of skyrim after less than 10 hours of gameplay (I didn't even finish a single quest line). I don't even play starcraft anymore. These game makers don't target the things I get hooked on. I don't even remember the last game which blew me away with awesomeness.That is a lie, it was Final Fantasy 8, sad that that was over 10 years ago and since then and nothing has come close for me (admittedly it was mainly the story, the game play did get repetitive with all the drawing of magic). It is why I have all but given up on games, I pretty much just read now to get my jollys where I discover something which makes my feet tingle every other month.
So I don't get this addictive gaming thing, to me it just looks like they are just making games stupid and forcing me to go find entertainment elsewhere.
So your bottom line is "I'm not addicted so it's not addictive"? So many people here throw around their own anecdotes, but as already mentioned at least in europe (with NL at the forefront) it's pretty much recognized as an actual addiction. Are people just so hard in denial because they have to face the question if they are/were addicted after all?
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On December 20 2011 00:27 MHT wrote: Used to play WoW for about a year and a half until i figured this out, felt like what i did was more of a job than fun. Don't think I'll be able to play an MMO again since they all pretty much following the same principles, grind=profit. You mean you felt like you had to put forth time and effort to achieve goals set by the game and yourself?! How terrible! You find fun (and happiness) in what you choose. If you choose to see that part of life where you found fun in an MMO as a waste of time, then I truly feel sorry for you.
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On December 20 2011 01:56 Shurayuki wrote:
So your bottom line is "I'm not addicted so it's not addictive"? So many people here throw around their own anecdotes, but as already mentioned at least in europe (with NL at the forefront) it's pretty much recognized as an actual addiction. Are people just so hard in denial because they have to face the question if they are/were addicted after all?
Fairly certain my bottom line was I am not addicted and current games seem to me to be crap so I am being forced to give up on gaming as entertainment. I don't recall saying that other people were not addicted or that it is impossible to be addicted. One does not equal the other.
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On December 20 2011 02:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:56 Shurayuki wrote:
So your bottom line is "I'm not addicted so it's not addictive"? So many people here throw around their own anecdotes, but as already mentioned at least in europe (with NL at the forefront) it's pretty much recognized as an actual addiction. Are people just so hard in denial because they have to face the question if they are/were addicted after all?
Fairly certain my bottom line was I am not addicted and current games seem to me to be crap so I am being forced to give up on gaming as entertainment. I don't recall saying that other people were not addicted or that it is impossible to be addicted. One does not equal the other.
Haha it's just a huge circle of "i'm not addicted so why should i care/he's so stupid" and i honestly only quoted you because you were the last to say smth. like that. Also anything after the first sentence wasn't directed at your post i should have hit enter a few times there...
;D
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I was definitely addiced to WoW and played it for i don't know how many years. I was a in a tough situation in life and it was a world where i could escape the reality. The game provides almost endless amount of different goals leveling, professions, dungeons, gear, raiding, pvp/arena and the achievement system (LOL) all that with the social aspect of it makes it very addictive.
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MMO-bashing, IMHO. It's only unethical in my mind when your product is chemically addictive and creates an actual pathological reliance to it. Otherwise, it is terribly difficult to draw the line that separates "ethical" from "unethical." I don't miss playing WoW. I enjoyed it, but it was too much of a time investment for college, so I stopped. There's no such thing as MMO withdrawal; at least not on a level that reflects on the game itself, unlike with nicotine or any other chemical addictant. If you're not having fun playing a game, don't play the game. The reason people play a game like World of Warcraft is that it is this unbelievably immersing, interactive, colossal gameplay experience in which you can fight each other, work with each other, and partake in a fully functional economy with producers, sellers, commodities, goods, services, injections, and leakages. To be perfectly honest, people who get lost in the game usually do so because their real lives are lacking in the catharsis that the game renders. I've found that to have much more influence on the addiction factor than any kind of compulsion manipulation, which has always struck me as rather obvious.
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On December 20 2011 02:37 Daray wrote: I was definitely addiced to WoW and played it for i don't know how many years. I was a in a tough situation in life and it was a world where i could escape the reality. The game provides almost endless amount of different goals leveling, professions, dungeons, gear, raiding, pvp/arena and the achievement system (LOL) all that with the social aspect of it makes it very addictive.
A very valid point, but consider the following. Your demand was for catharsis, and WoW provided that. So it strikes me that here, your addiction to the game was actually a part of the escape from reality that you paid Blizz for in the first place. I think it's important to be able to remove oneself from RL stresses, but then it is one's own responsibility to bring oneself back to it when enough is enough.
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Tb would be pissed if he saw this. He did a presentation about how gaming addiction isn't real in 2007 I'll link when I get to my main computer
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On December 20 2011 02:42 Shantastic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 02:37 Daray wrote: I was definitely addiced to WoW and played it for i don't know how many years. I was a in a tough situation in life and it was a world where i could escape the reality. The game provides almost endless amount of different goals leveling, professions, dungeons, gear, raiding, pvp/arena and the achievement system (LOL) all that with the social aspect of it makes it very addictive. A very valid point, but consider the following. Your demand was for catharsis, and WoW provided that. So it strikes me that here, your addiction to the game was actually a part of the escape from reality that you paid Blizz for in the first place. I think it's important to be able to remove oneself from RL stresses, but then it is one's own responsibility to bring oneself back to it when enough is enough.
Yeah i think you're correct. The artifcial world with simple goals and social interaction is what made me addicted to it when my life at the time was kinda shitty.
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On December 20 2011 02:42 Shantastic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 02:37 Daray wrote: I was definitely addiced to WoW and played it for i don't know how many years. I was a in a tough situation in life and it was a world where i could escape the reality. The game provides almost endless amount of different goals leveling, professions, dungeons, gear, raiding, pvp/arena and the achievement system (LOL) all that with the social aspect of it makes it very addictive. A very valid point, but consider the following. Your demand was for catharsis, and WoW provided that. So it strikes me that here, your addiction to the game was actually a part of the escape from reality that you paid Blizz for in the first place. I think it's important to be able to remove oneself from RL stresses, but then it is one's own responsibility to bring oneself back to it when enough is enough. Or maybe he was replacing things in real life with an alternative in WoW. Not necessarily an "escape" from reality, but choosing one which was better suited for him. In that case, is he really removing himself from real life stresses, or is he simply finding a place where he can pursue parallels in a more comfortable environment?
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do ppl get withdrawal symptons in gaming? or how do u define addiction to videogames, just amount played?
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