Should education be free? - Page 9
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Do not derail the thread with discussions about other topics like global warming. | ||
Red112
20 Posts
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Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
On March 13 2012 20:52 Red112 wrote: I don't understand people who get upset about their taxes going to education/healthcare. What more noble thing could your taxes go to than educating generations and providing medicine to those who require it? You don't understand man. Gov robs money from its citizens. Solidarity? Wait, what? Fuck the poor, it's their fault if they are poor. My dad was rich but I stayed rich because of my hard work. | ||
rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
In the end something free is always paid by someone If the cost increases, either students must pay more or you must tax more. The real question is whether or not its justified for students to pay a part of the cost. I live in Quebec also and goes to university of Montreal, I believe its justified for a student to pay a part of the cost and this part in Quebec is low enough. Is the increase they are suggesting too much ? maybe, probably, I've not looked into it too much since I finish this year. The problem for me arises when it's impossible to pay the fees without already being rich, this is where it makes no sense. The fees should be such that a student can pay for his fees (and the rest of his life) if he takes a part time job (10-15 hours a week) and get full time in the summer. Loans should also be an option and I believe there should be pressure from governments to make banks offer very low interests loans to pay fees (by a contract between the bank and universities for example). If a student cannot pay his fees and live decently with this part-job and a reasonable loan then there is a real issue. | ||
zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Red112
20 Posts
On March 13 2012 20:55 TanTzoR wrote: You don't understand man. Gov robs money from its citizens. Solidarity? Wait, what? Fuck the poor, it's their fault if they are poor. My dad was rich but I stayed rich because of my hard work. haha they're all for standing with the troops and shit but once they're no longer employed by the military and need healthcare? WHAT? FUCK YOU I don't pay for your healthcare! yeah I love the troops!!!! USA USA | ||
Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
On March 13 2012 20:57 Red112 wrote: haha they're all for standing with the troops and shit but once they're no longer employed by the military and need healthcare? WHAT? FUCK YOU I don't pay for your healthcare! yeah I love the troops!!!! USA USA I was being ironic actually. | ||
Startyr
Scotland188 Posts
Make university free for everyone, with more focus on the students going on to become academics and researchers. Where graduates contribute to human knowledge and can increase the quality of life for everyone. Provide some kind of tax break for small businesses that offer apprenticeship/internships, particularly to school leavers, where they can learn by doing from the people who have experience. This helps and encourages businesses to grow as well as providing employment. This would mean many more people are going into higher education or employment with prospects. It could lower unemployment which means lower welfare bills and potentially less crime which again saves money. By investing in education you get an intelligent and employed populace which can actually save the government money and taxes can be lower as more people are employed and actually paying them. However in some countries those in power seem to want to keep the poor poor and uneducated the rich rich and everyone else in debt for a significant portion of their lives, which makes it easier to manipulate and control the people. | ||
Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
Yes, education should be free... in a contry that is socialist. What Canada nor Quebec is, sadly. No point in striking in the road, boycutting schools, blocking road, slowing down your education and going outrage at the society, like you guys love to do right now. Basically, the only single thing you guys will achieve, is losing more and more ground. Most citizens in Quebec pretty much see your movement as retarded, therefore it just can't work. Basic logic. Why would the governement back you up when not even a half of the population is agreeing with you... and it's getting worst each day? | ||
Cocacooh
Norway1510 Posts
In Norway you pay around 100 $ for each semester at any state educational institusion, wich includes the best schools in most fields. You get around 13k a year as a minimum student loan, half of wich the state pays if you pass all your classes each year(you can ask for a bigger loan, but your stipend will be around 6k). Living costs are extremly high though so it can be hard to live just on a student loan. | ||
Noocta
France12574 Posts
Probably not. But up to 16years old level ( don't know how to say that level in international terms ), school should be free yeah. | ||
PrimeTimey
Canada369 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:42 Datz2Ez wrote: Hi fellow members, Let's start first to give you the context of my thread At the moment, we pay around 1075$/semester (+/- 2000$/year) to go to university. Even if the fees our low, the average student end university with +/- 15 000 in dept. $2000 per year on tuition $1000 per year on books x4 years = $12,000 How is it possible for the AVERAGE to be 15,000 in debt? That makes no sense. 1) Get a part-time job during the school year OR a full-time job during the summer and you won't have any debt. 2) Learn how to budget and be frugal with your money. 3) We have it so lucky compared to many people around the world because of the subsidized costs of post-secondary education. Typical Quebec crying when they already have the lowest tuition fees. | ||
Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
On March 13 2012 21:04 PrimeTimey wrote: $2000 per year on tuition $1000 per year on books x4 years = $12,000 How is it possible for the AVERAGE to be 15,000 in debt? That makes no sense. 1) Get a part-time job during the school year OR a full-time job during the summer and you won't have any debt. 2) Learn how to budget and be frugal with your money. 3) We have it so lucky compared to many people around the world because of the subsidized costs of post-secondary education. Typical Quebec crying when they already have the lowest tuition fees. Accomodation? There are some cities really really expensive. And I can ensure you there are some places where you just cant find a part-time job. | ||
zanga
659 Posts
But yeah... we better use the money for something with our idiotic taxes to be quite frank. | ||
Adila
United States874 Posts
I'm glad I finished when it was still relatively cheap. | ||
rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On March 13 2012 21:04 PrimeTimey wrote: $2000 per year on tuition $1000 per year on books x4 years = $12,000 How is it possible for the AVERAGE to be 15,000 in debt? That makes no sense. 1) Get a part-time job during the school year OR a full-time job during the summer and you won't have any debt. 2) Learn how to budget and be frugal with your money. 3) We have it so lucky compared to many people around the world because of the subsidized costs of post-secondary education. Typical Quebec crying when they already have the lowest tuition fees. Yeah I also don't believe this -15K AVERAGE from ALL STUDENTS. Almost every student I know have things paid by their parents, others have half time jobs. The only person I know who is really in debt because of university and cost of life is my GF, and she is at -2000. | ||
Crueger
Sweden73 Posts
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PrimeTimey
Canada369 Posts
On March 13 2012 21:07 TanTzoR wrote: Accomodation? There are some cities really really expensive. And I can ensure you there are some places where you just cant find a part-time job. If living expenses are too much for you and you can't get a part-time job then why in the world would you pick to go to school there? Do people never think of the consequences first? Just move out, cry and complain when it's too expensive? People need to plan better. | ||
MethodSC
United States928 Posts
On March 13 2012 18:45 Poffel wrote: As anomalopidae has already pointed out, a University offers quite a bit of infrastructure that a "hobbyist" simply cannot acquire by himself. But since you'd like to read a study on the incompleteness of independent learning, how about Tuovinen/Sweller (1999). "A comparison of cognitive load associated with discovery learning and worked examples". Journal of Educational Psychology 91 (2): 334–341? On a sidenote, the next time you're making a contraintuitive statement and I say that I consider it to be quite a stretch, it'll be up to you to provide evidence for your claim, not up to me to disprove you, ok? You're the one that made a claim to begin with, thus making you the person that needs to come up with proof of that assertion. Next time check the name of who you quote before saying something stupid to someone else who is asking you questions. | ||
Trollk
Belgium93 Posts
Here in Belgium the cost is around 500 EUR per annum for a Bachelor degree (with lower tarrifs for very low income families who receive government scholarships). This is good in the sence that there is little to no obstruction to go to college. However, people easily tend to forget that the true cost for the university/government of a year of me studying is around 11k per year (not including my opportunity costs of any sort). This cost is put up by the government, which is 'fair' given the high income tax rates we have to pay when earning $$. Higher education, higher income, more 'return' for the government for investing in me. The thing that bothers me about the education system of Bachelor/Master, is that it tends to inflate the degrees. Bachelor means nothing these days, they are reduced to nothing more but a requirement for your Master. Nevertheless, the EU aims the Bachelor degree to be self-sufficient in the working place, which it is not. It will most likely become worse when in 5 or 10 years time the Master will equal the Bachelor nowadays (basicly nothing besides the fact that you can learn). Please note that Im talking about most general university studies and not specific studies will undoubtedly keep its value, like engineering (eg). | ||
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