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On May 26 2014 04:59 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:53 Sokrates wrote:On May 26 2014 04:43 mahrgell wrote: Germany is massively lacking qualified workers, we in fact require more workers then we have unemployed right now. The living standards are high, and in the polls today >80% of the Germans said, they are confident about their financial situation. What again was the problem of the average German? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkommensverteilung_in_Deutschland"Seit den 1990er Jahren sind die Einkommen in Deutschland zunehmend ungleicher verteilt. Die oberen Einkommensbezieher erhalten zunehmend höhere Einkommen, die unteren Einkommensbezieher zunehmend geringere." "Since the 1990s the incomes in germany are increasingly unevenly distributed. People with higher incomes get increasingly higher incomes and people with lower incomes get increasingly lower incomes." And still >80% of the German population is confident about their finances Are you having some marxist dreams about total income equality? Of course they are confident... They are the dominant force of a weak european zone. In the country of the blind, the one-eyed is king.
On May 26 2014 04:54 GL999et1000 wrote: FN has changed of face but the body is still the same. Last night, my building has been tagged with the sentence "France to the french". Such idiot people...
Yes that's exactly it. But maybe something good will come out of this mess.
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On May 26 2014 04:59 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:53 Sokrates wrote:On May 26 2014 04:43 mahrgell wrote: Germany is massively lacking qualified workers, we in fact require more workers then we have unemployed right now. The living standards are high, and in the polls today >80% of the Germans said, they are confident about their financial situation. What again was the problem of the average German? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkommensverteilung_in_Deutschland"Seit den 1990er Jahren sind die Einkommen in Deutschland zunehmend ungleicher verteilt. Die oberen Einkommensbezieher erhalten zunehmend höhere Einkommen, die unteren Einkommensbezieher zunehmend geringere." "Since the 1990s the incomes in germany are increasingly unevenly distributed. People with higher incomes get increasingly higher incomes and people with lower incomes get increasingly lower incomes." And still >80% of the German population is confident about their finances Are you having some marxist dreams about total income equality?
That is why AFD gained so much voters. And yes i have dreams about a better income distribution, that doesnt mean i m a marxist.
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On May 26 2014 04:40 Nyxisto wrote: Canada's immigration rates as well as the % of people in Canada that is foreign born is among the highest in the world.It's a really bad example when it comes to restrictive immigration policies. France has a cultural problem with integration, don't act like it's for economical reasons. Many French people I know don't consider people not born in France as 'real French', to a lesser degree that's also the case here in Germany and in many other countries Europe.
Just from my personal experience I find the idea which many people in France seem to have of their country as a little antiquated. There's still seems to be a strong tendency for etatism and centralism, honestly I think the country needs a little federalization.
Also what's up with Denmark? Why is the DPP so popular? Denmark has traditionally had a people being among the most anti-EU in europe and a government (no matter the colour) being among the most pro-EU in europe. Untill last election we had a June movement wanting Denmark out of EU completely, winning spots. The no-votes has gone to the "popular movement against EU" representing the far left and DPP representing the national conservative no-side. The opinion has changed from anti-EU to scepticism and DPP is thriving on the same very critical opinions on EU like social union critizism (take the German and Netherlands times 10 when it comes to hate for the german case and the upcoming finnish case by the court in Luxembourgh), anti immigration in any shape they can grap (pro-union against underpayed workers - a very common occurance, unfortunately - and for national border patrols) and a lot of the easy criticism of EUs bureaucratic nightmares (Moving circus, politicians in robes and the legislative overspecification/overimplementation in Denmark.). They tried turning against the EU support for a gay right organisation, but that hurt them a lot. Religious conservative morals of any kind is very "not" in most of Denmark.
There are certain comparative traits in DPP and FN unfortunately, but DPP is accepted in Denmark as a party cooperating quite a bit with the left-wing while wanting a liberal/conservative government they are very far from on economic policies.
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On May 26 2014 04:58 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:45 nkr wrote: FN is labeled as a racist party in swedish national television. How close to the truth is this? It used to be true, but now it's only partially true. The former head of the FN, Jean-Marie Le Pen, was notorious for making wildly racist statements, and somewhat promoting negationism and publicly doubting certain aspects of the Holocaust multiple times. He had no bed-side manner, and didn't really try to hide his true opinions. His daughter, Marine Le Pen, is smarter and has slightly different ideas. Jean-Marie was a good speaker, but Marine is more subtle and does not flaunt her very controversial ideas the way Jean-Marie did. I don't believe her to be a racist, but she is a nationalist. I agree with WhiteDog.
Marine Lepen is maybe the leader but you cannot judge a party only on the leader. The fact is this party is carried by mostly xenophobic, homophobic people.
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On May 26 2014 05:03 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:59 mahrgell wrote:On May 26 2014 04:53 Sokrates wrote:On May 26 2014 04:43 mahrgell wrote: Germany is massively lacking qualified workers, we in fact require more workers then we have unemployed right now. The living standards are high, and in the polls today >80% of the Germans said, they are confident about their financial situation. What again was the problem of the average German? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkommensverteilung_in_Deutschland"Seit den 1990er Jahren sind die Einkommen in Deutschland zunehmend ungleicher verteilt. Die oberen Einkommensbezieher erhalten zunehmend höhere Einkommen, die unteren Einkommensbezieher zunehmend geringere." "Since the 1990s the incomes in germany are increasingly unevenly distributed. People with higher incomes get increasingly higher incomes and people with lower incomes get increasingly lower incomes." And still >80% of the German population is confident about their finances Are you having some marxist dreams about total income equality? That is why AFD gained so much voters. And yes i have dreams about a better income distribution, that doesnt mean i m a marxist.
The rising gap is a worldwide problem of capitalism. Compared to other states its relatively mild in Germany. I dont think a single country can reverse the trend.
The situation in France makes me think of Germany 1933.
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On May 26 2014 05:15 GL999et1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:58 Spaylz wrote:On May 26 2014 04:45 nkr wrote: FN is labeled as a racist party in swedish national television. How close to the truth is this? It used to be true, but now it's only partially true. The former head of the FN, Jean-Marie Le Pen, was notorious for making wildly racist statements, and somewhat promoting negationism and publicly doubting certain aspects of the Holocaust multiple times. He had no bed-side manner, and didn't really try to hide his true opinions. His daughter, Marine Le Pen, is smarter and has slightly different ideas. Jean-Marie was a good speaker, but Marine is more subtle and does not flaunt her very controversial ideas the way Jean-Marie did. I don't believe her to be a racist, but she is a nationalist. I agree with WhiteDog. Marine Lepen is maybe the leader but you cannot judge a party only on the leader. The fact is this party is carried by xenophobic, homophobic people. No the party is a mess, there are far left, far right, colbertists, nationalists, libertarian, all in one party.
It has nothing to do with Germany in 1933 please... You needs a little more culture on France and Germany to understand the big difference between the two... The FN has always been there lurking in France's political history, in different shape or form. The big problem is that we have no left anymore, and it explain the 55% abstention.
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I did not say they wanted to burn jews. Just that FN's campaigners are characterized by their hate of foreigners, homosexuals, and muslims. I think that you need to read what I have written, not what you think I have.
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On May 26 2014 05:21 GL999et1000 wrote: I did not say thay wanted to burn jews. Just that FN's campaigners are characterized by their hate of foreigners, homosexuals, and muslims. Not really. If you listen to the FN, they are far more smarter than that.
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The word "smart" does not have the same meaning for you and me that is all. The day I will find that run away from problems is smart is not arrived.
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nvm
Have to stop doing that...
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On May 26 2014 05:22 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 05:21 GL999et1000 wrote: I did not say thay wanted to burn jews. Just that FN's campaigners are characterized by their hate of foreigners, homosexuals, and muslims. Not really. If you listen to the FN, they are far more smarter than that. Actually when I listen to Marine Le pen, for every problem( economic, social, or anything) the cause is always the same : immigrants. Thats not what I call being "smart". Thats what I call being repulsive and acting cowardly.
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On May 26 2014 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:26 Douillos wrote:On May 26 2014 04:15 WhiteDog wrote:On May 26 2014 04:13 Douillos wrote:On May 26 2014 03:46 WhiteDog wrote:
What are you talking about ? Can you give me source that the european project actually helped the condition of the french workers ? of the french middle class ?
A quick example is that without the PAC, there would not be any form of agriculture left in France.I can't believe how many people are actually trying to defend the FN party. Numerous cases of racism have been reported in new towns won by this Party after the municipal elections. And when I read people saying it's a "socialist & patriotic party" , I really feel sad to live in France (FYI I'm irish but grew up her). Everytime a party member opens his mouth, it's to bring the debate back to the eternal "immigrants are the problem, they steal our jobs and take advantage of our healthcare". For fucks sake, they were able to spend a large part of the presidential debate on the problem of halal food in schools. The FN party is an extremist, racist party, and they only thing that makes it worse is that their political program is a crock of shit, filled with ideas that wouldnt have even worked 50 years ago. The real thing is that most people in France just don't give a fuck enough to lose 2 hours to go and vote on a sunday afternoon, probably spent most of it watching Rolland Garros. Participation 45% = 25% FN, nothing else. That party is a joke and I firmly believe that you have to be brainwashed and/or mentally challenge to actually believe that they could be anything else than trouble for France as an industrial & economically competitive country. I just hope people here will wake the fuck and go vote next time. Seriously ? Do you know anything about protectionism ? So France can't protect its agriculture now ? Sure, but at what price? What do you think the response of countries you are importing food from is going to be when you tax goods coming in to the country? Well, I'll tell you, they are going to do the same thing on the products you are exporting to them. And what does that mean? That means exportations going down, French companies being even less competitive, jobs disapearing etc. We are no longer in a world where you can just decide to start imposing protectionist measure without facing massive retaliation So what do we do? North korean style, Red Khmer maybe? The FN is from another century, it's just a response to the fears of many who have no idea how shit works nowadays and that the only way is to protect ourselves from the "invaders". A more powerful Europe is the best way to protect our quality of life and I'm really disappointed that people don't get that. I will not take the time to point out how stupid the idea of competitivity is if you put the world protectionism before it. If the state say a specific branch is competitive, then it is, that's protectionism. All countries use it, and when we refused to siege in the european institutions to negociate the PAC, we were in fact doing protectionism - it is not a bad thing, it is intelligence. A more powerful Europe, you mean an europe with macroeconomic policies ? Yes, but right now the Europe cannot deliver, open your eyes, look at the unemployment and the growth, do you think it is all because of the french ?
I don't really get what you are trying to say. "If the state say a specific branch is competitive, then it is, that's protectionism."
You are right to say that Europe has not delivered, but losing hope is definitly not the way to go... Because anything else is even less of a good idea!
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The next days are going to be fucking annoying.
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On May 26 2014 05:28 Twine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 05:22 WhiteDog wrote:On May 26 2014 05:21 GL999et1000 wrote: I did not say thay wanted to burn jews. Just that FN's campaigners are characterized by their hate of foreigners, homosexuals, and muslims. Not really. If you listen to the FN, they are far more smarter than that. Actually when I listen to Marine Le pen, for every problem( economic, social, or anything) the cause is always the same : immigrants. Thats not what I call being "smart". Thats what I call being repulsive and acting cowardly.
I agree. FN's bread and butter is kicking out immigrants.
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On May 26 2014 05:27 GL999et1000 wrote: The word "smart" does not have the same meaning for you and me that is all. The day I will find that run away from problems is smart is not arrived. Ok I will elaborate a little.
The FN is a nationalist party at core. During Le Pen's era, that nationalism was also backed up by some kind of racism and xenophobia and they were, with that, for economic liberalism (Le Pen wanted to be the french Reagan).
But, with Marine Le Pen's (the daughter), the FN "smartly" took most of the critics coming from the non institutionalised far left and made it their own. They took Sapir's and Lordon's critics toward the europe (far left economists) to a point were those economists had to defend themselves from being from the FN ! In the same vein, they actually defend France's social security, they defend the retirement at 60, they push for an increase in the minimum wage, they repeat non stop that they are "against liberalism and globalization". They put themselves as the only opposition to what is judged (rightfully I might say) to be the core reason of our social problems.
On May 26 2014 05:30 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 26 2014 04:26 Douillos wrote:On May 26 2014 04:15 WhiteDog wrote:On May 26 2014 04:13 Douillos wrote:On May 26 2014 03:46 WhiteDog wrote:
What are you talking about ? Can you give me source that the european project actually helped the condition of the french workers ? of the french middle class ?
A quick example is that without the PAC, there would not be any form of agriculture left in France.I can't believe how many people are actually trying to defend the FN party. Numerous cases of racism have been reported in new towns won by this Party after the municipal elections. And when I read people saying it's a "socialist & patriotic party" , I really feel sad to live in France (FYI I'm irish but grew up her). Everytime a party member opens his mouth, it's to bring the debate back to the eternal "immigrants are the problem, they steal our jobs and take advantage of our healthcare". For fucks sake, they were able to spend a large part of the presidential debate on the problem of halal food in schools. The FN party is an extremist, racist party, and they only thing that makes it worse is that their political program is a crock of shit, filled with ideas that wouldnt have even worked 50 years ago. The real thing is that most people in France just don't give a fuck enough to lose 2 hours to go and vote on a sunday afternoon, probably spent most of it watching Rolland Garros. Participation 45% = 25% FN, nothing else. That party is a joke and I firmly believe that you have to be brainwashed and/or mentally challenge to actually believe that they could be anything else than trouble for France as an industrial & economically competitive country. I just hope people here will wake the fuck and go vote next time. Seriously ? Do you know anything about protectionism ? So France can't protect its agriculture now ? Sure, but at what price? What do you think the response of countries you are importing food from is going to be when you tax goods coming in to the country? Well, I'll tell you, they are going to do the same thing on the products you are exporting to them. And what does that mean? That means exportations going down, French companies being even less competitive, jobs disapearing etc. We are no longer in a world where you can just decide to start imposing protectionist measure without facing massive retaliation So what do we do? North korean style, Red Khmer maybe? The FN is from another century, it's just a response to the fears of many who have no idea how shit works nowadays and that the only way is to protect ourselves from the "invaders". A more powerful Europe is the best way to protect our quality of life and I'm really disappointed that people don't get that. I will not take the time to point out how stupid the idea of competitivity is if you put the world protectionism before it. If the state say a specific branch is competitive, then it is, that's protectionism. All countries use it, and when we refused to siege in the european institutions to negociate the PAC, we were in fact doing protectionism - it is not a bad thing, it is intelligence. A more powerful Europe, you mean an europe with macroeconomic policies ? Yes, but right now the Europe cannot deliver, open your eyes, look at the unemployment and the growth, do you think it is all because of the french ? I don't really get what you are trying to say. "If the state say a specific branch is competitive, then it is, that's protectionism." You are right to say that Europe has not delivered, but losing hope is definitly not the way to go... Because anything else is even less of a good idea! Competitivity is a microeconomic term (at the level of firms). From a macroeconomic perspective, you can change the competitivity of a nation in a few seconds (with the exchange rate of your money or with law). China and Germany are competitive because they have underevaluated currency, we are not because we have an over evaluated currency and because we have a social security that push our labor cost high.
Basically, the state have the tools to make an entire nation competitive, because it is the state that makes the rules that permit the exchange. Protectionism is one of those tools (how do you think EDF is now one of the biggest energy firm in the world ? because we protected it during the firty glorious).
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Jean-Claude Juncker has claimed a win for EPP and makes his claim for the presidency of the commission in public on Twitter. Source (in french unfortunately)
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On May 26 2014 05:15 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 05:03 Sokrates wrote:On May 26 2014 04:59 mahrgell wrote:On May 26 2014 04:53 Sokrates wrote:On May 26 2014 04:43 mahrgell wrote: Germany is massively lacking qualified workers, we in fact require more workers then we have unemployed right now. The living standards are high, and in the polls today >80% of the Germans said, they are confident about their financial situation. What again was the problem of the average German? http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkommensverteilung_in_Deutschland"Seit den 1990er Jahren sind die Einkommen in Deutschland zunehmend ungleicher verteilt. Die oberen Einkommensbezieher erhalten zunehmend höhere Einkommen, die unteren Einkommensbezieher zunehmend geringere." "Since the 1990s the incomes in germany are increasingly unevenly distributed. People with higher incomes get increasingly higher incomes and people with lower incomes get increasingly lower incomes." And still >80% of the German population is confident about their finances Are you having some marxist dreams about total income equality? That is why AFD gained so much voters. And yes i have dreams about a better income distribution, that doesnt mean i m a marxist. The rising gap is a worldwide problem of capitalism. Compared to other states its relatively mild in Germany. I dont think a single country can reverse the trend. The situation in France makes me think of Germany 1933.
hahaha we are very far from this ..god people please be a bit more rationnal
you should really take whitedog words if you want to have the best information because what he says is extremely true.
in my opinion, the core of the right and the left is racist but they actually hide it pretty well, not for the FN, that's the major difference .; the idea that FN = racist and the traditionnal left and right = not racist is so simplistic
do not forget that all of these people come from more or less the same background
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So many haters in this thread. There's a reason parties like FN win, and it is to blame on years of 'politically correct' policies (mainly by the Left) that went WAY too far in the name of multiculturalism.
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they defend the retirement at 60,
This is smart for you? The life expectancy when you have reached 60 yo is average 25. How will you spend your 25 y? During this time France's debt is growing fast. This is pure demagogy and pure stupidity.
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On May 26 2014 05:49 GL999et1000 wrote:This is smart for you? The life expectancy when you have reached 60 yo is average 25. How will you spend your 25 y? During this time France's debt is growing fast. This is pure demagogy and pure stupidity. We have a 10% unemployment .... and since 10 years. Increasing the limit of retirement when the unemployment is so high is also quite stupid, we are not Germany, we have a decent natural growth and our population is younger overall. It's your way of thinking that is kinda boring to see in politics, presenting everything like there are no alternative. Politics is about choice, and if you present your point of view like something that must be done, like you have no choice, people will not vote for you...
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