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On August 02 2016 06:50 opisska wrote: I would really love for western powers to stop seeing the Kurdish problem as an "internal issue" of Turkey. This whole idea that every country is supposed to desperately cling to every piece of their area and is allowed to fight separatism like it were a terrible plaque (because noone wants their own separatists empowered) is a fucking disgrace in the 21st century. If people want to be independent, the whole world community should support them, not play these stupid games meant to increase the amount of land they have control over.
Surely, stuff like Northern Ireland, where the separatists don't even have majority and everything is insanely intertwined, is different and really can be solved only by smart cohesion, but independent Kurdistan is really a no-brainer best solution for everyone but powerhungry Turkish governments (and their western counterparts thinking that supporting separatism endangers their own useless internal unity). Best thing is that all Western Europe was hailing the end of Soviet influence in Eastern European countries as something natural that should have happened long ago because of the Nation-State idea(ology). But Scotland, Catalonia, Euskadi, etc? Nope, these are in Western Europe, don't touch 'em !
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On August 02 2016 14:29 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 12:07 Blackfeather wrote: ...nobody wants this to happen on their turf and the last thing we need are more powerless 1.000.000 people states that want diplomatic representation everywhere. Numbers of Kurds: Turkey - estimates from 12 to 22.5 million Iran - estimates from 3.35 million to 8 million, Iraq - estimates from 4 to 6.5 million, Syria - estimates from 2 to 2.5 million, And secondly you got it the wrong way around! If your people do not have a nation, other nations do not care about you at all! If Kurds had gotten their own state like they arguably should have (thanks a lot England), they would not be in this mess. Precisely because they have no international voice they get fucked with by all the countries they are part of. Look at other very obvious examples like say East Ukraine, who would have cared for a local Russian minority if there had not been a powerful Russian state next to it? Or maybe recall the situation of Jewish people before the state of Israel was formed, they were literally killed in the millions in 'internal conflict within the German state'. Having a nation state is having a powerful lobby protecting your rights, lacking that is being a bargaining chip for someone other to play with... @numbers: Not all of them would flock to a new state and half of Europe's states are totally ridiculous and only exist because both neighbors couldn't agree who's taking it or because they got released in some peace treaty to weaken a more powerful nation.
Yeah other nations don't give a shit about you if you don't have a nation. So assimilate and try to get a hold in the government that way. "Your people" is a totally arbitrary concept to begin with, as arbitrary as nations. The difference is that nations have power so we got to live with them, tribalism doesn't.
Also Iraq's Kurdistan being rated super high on the oil reserves tells you exactly why they want to keep their territory.
Again I'm no friend of Erdogan in any way and even less so of his treatment of the Kurds. But similar to the Israel Palestine conflict/civil war the reasonable solution would be from the Kurds to give up their separatist movement and from Erdogan to treat them like normal citizens. That's daydreaming though and won't happen within the next 50 possibly 100 years.
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On August 03 2016 00:10 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2016 06:50 opisska wrote: I would really love for western powers to stop seeing the Kurdish problem as an "internal issue" of Turkey. This whole idea that every country is supposed to desperately cling to every piece of their area and is allowed to fight separatism like it were a terrible plaque (because noone wants their own separatists empowered) is a fucking disgrace in the 21st century. If people want to be independent, the whole world community should support them, not play these stupid games meant to increase the amount of land they have control over.
Surely, stuff like Northern Ireland, where the separatists don't even have majority and everything is insanely intertwined, is different and really can be solved only by smart cohesion, but independent Kurdistan is really a no-brainer best solution for everyone but powerhungry Turkish governments (and their western counterparts thinking that supporting separatism endangers their own useless internal unity). Best thing is that all Western Europe was hailing the end of Soviet influence in Eastern European countries as something natural that should have happened long ago because of the Nation-State idea(ology). But Scotland, Catalonia, Euskadi, etc? Nope, these are in Western Europe, don't touch 'em !
There is plenty of sympathy for many seperatist movements among people but for politicians or a diffrent people to actually focus and weigh in for these kind of movements horrible stuff needs to happen to sich a minority.
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On August 02 2016 06:50 opisska wrote: I would really love for western powers to stop seeing the Kurdish problem as an "internal issue" of Turkey. This whole idea that every country is supposed to desperately cling to every piece of their area and is allowed to fight separatism like it were a terrible plaque (because noone wants their own separatists empowered) is a fucking disgrace in the 21st century. If people want to be independent, the whole world community should support them, not play these stupid games meant to increase the amount of land they have control over.
Surely, stuff like Northern Ireland, where the separatists don't even have majority and everything is insanely intertwined, is different and really can be solved only by smart cohesion, but independent Kurdistan is really a no-brainer best solution for everyone but powerhungry Turkish governments (and their western counterparts thinking that supporting separatism endangers their own useless internal unity). But the Kurdish problem is a Turkish internal issue, not in the least because an independent Kurdistan would be a country that'd tear itself up due to tribal conflicts in less than half a decade if it were allowed to become independent, leaving Turkey to pick up the pieces (i.e. a ton of refugees and another armed conflict at its borders).
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On August 02 2016 21:54 lord_nibbler wrote:Still, if you combine all Kurdish regions into one Kurdistan like this picture on wikipedia, you would get a perfectly self-sustainable state. Yes, the South would have to subsidize East Anatolia just like Turkey does now, but such things are happening in every nation state. They're already mismanaging the oil income they get now. It won't get any better when they're their own country. Barzani has been overstaying his mandate as president which expired in 2015 and even Iraqi Kurdistan is already divided between factions just imagine how it will go when Syrian and Turkish Kurds join them. The only thing that unites the Kurds is nationalism and that's a recipe for disaster.
Of course they deserve their own country if they want it but their prospects are dim either way.
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Less dim united than exterminated by the Turks or overrun by Isis or the syrian government. Let alone leave them at the mercy of the iraqis?
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United States22883 Posts
It's worth pointing out that the difference between many Kurdish dialects is more extreme than the differences between the romance languages. They may share a similar ethnic background, but there's like 50+ tribes and holding them together would be an extremely difficult task - especially in a war zone. 10 years ago, while Turkey's Kurdish problem was largely quelled, most Turkish Kurds referred to themselves as Turks, and I'm sure many would still prefer it that way.
That's not to say a Kurdistan shouldn't exist, but that you can't just throw a bunch of people in it based on ethnic heritage and expect them to fit. The Turks thought that would happen with Turkmen after the fall of the Soviet Union, but the country was much closer to Russian culture than Turkish culture. The same distance exists between Turkish, Iraqi and Iranian Kurds.
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On August 03 2016 05:56 Jibba wrote: It's worth pointing out that the difference between many Kurdish dialects is more extreme than the differences between the romance languages. They may share a similar ethnic background, but there's like 50+ tribes and holding them together would be an extremely difficult task - especially in a war zone. 10 years ago, while Turkey's Kurdish problem was largely quelled, most Turkish Kurds referred to themselves as Turks, and I'm sure many would still prefer it that way.
That's not to say a Kurdistan shouldn't exist, but that you can't just throw a bunch of people in it based on ethnic heritage and expect them to fit. The Turks thought that would happen with Turkmen after the fall of the Soviet Union, but the country was much closer to Russian culture than Turkish culture. The same distance exists between Turkish, Iraqi and Iranian Kurds.
I have spent a couple of weeks in turkish Kurdistan in 2007 and I don't even recall finding anyone who would be willing to call himself a Turk. Sure, I don't speak much turkish, so there is some bias towards more educated people or tourist-industry people, but we communicate even with completely non-english-speaking families. We aren't even very open when travelling, but in Kurdistan, it's impossible to not get in touch with the locals, they are extremely hospitable even for MIddle East standards. I would guess it's different in bigger cities, but the smaller places we went to were definitely Kurdish.
Back then, eastern Turkey was really a backwater. I have never been deep in Kurdistan since then, but I made a brief stop in Kars three years ago and I was really surprised how much better the city looks, there has been a lot of investment, which almost has to come from Turkish government, so maybe that also changes the view of the locals.
In 2010 I briefly visited Iranian Kurdistan (before we were basically shown the door by Persian authorities) and it was really very different from the Turkish one, it seemed much less developed and very traditional so I can really see the potential for big differences. On the other hand - and that's a topic which doesn't get much press - we learned that the people there were not very happy with the strict Persian rule, where for example all police forces were Persian etc., so there is the room for wishing for change also ...
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(Reuters) - Turkish police raided the offices of the national science research council on Wednesday, broadcaster NTV said, widening the investigation into followers of the U.S.-based cleric suspected of masterminding last month's coup attempt.
Many people were detained in the raid of the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (Tubitak), NTV said. Turkey's government says the July 15 coup attempt was orchestrated by followers of Fethullah Gulen, a Muslim cleric who has lived in self-imposed exile in the United States since 1999. Gulen denies the charge and has condemned the coup. uk.reuters.com
Prime Minister Matteo Renzi took to Twitter to hit back at Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who lashed out at the Italian justice system for targeting his son and who has been on an anti-West tirade since thwarting a coup.
The skirmish between the two leaders, whose nations have a complicated history of commercial rivalry going back to the Ottoman Empire, took place across medias starting with a television interview where Erdogan complained that his son, Bilal Erdogan, can’t return to Italy because he could be arrested in a money-laundering probe that “he doesn’t know the reasons for.”
In the interview with Rainews24 Erdogan called on Italian judges to focus instead on the mafia and said the issue could tarnish Turkey’s relationship with Italy. Erdogan’s comments were translated into Italian.
Renzi shot back, in Italian, in the 140-character format: “In this country judges respond to laws and to the Italian constitution, not to the Turkish president. It’s called rule of law.”
Erdogan’s post-coup purge, demands that the U.S. extradite the plot’s alleged mastermind and verbal assaults on the European Union, which Turkey has been in talks to join for more than a decade, have soured ties to the West and brought Erdogan closer to one-time foe, Vladimir Putin.
Bilal, 35, is one of Erdogan’s four children. He was finishing a doctorate degree in Bologna, home to the country’s oldest university, before the money-laundering probe. It’s unclear when he left the northern Italian city, which has a history of strong political activism and was once a Communist stronghold. Erdogan denied any wrongdoing by his son and accused prosecutors of bias. “In that city they call me dictator and they do demonstrations to back the PKK,” Erdogan told Rainews 24, referring to the autonomy-seeking Kurdistan Workers’ Party. “My son is a smart man and is accused of money laundering. Why don’t they deal with mafia and not with my son?” www.bloomberg.com
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How safe is it for me to come to Turkey and have a hair transplant? Im bald(ing)
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On August 03 2016 20:51 NukeD wrote:How safe is it for me to come to Turkey and have a hair transplant? Im bald(ing) have you publicly made fun or insulted Erdogon on social media? If not then your probably safe. Aside from the night of the coup itself I don't think it has been unsafe to be in Turkey. No more then usual anyway.
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I'd suggest just shaving off the remainder of your hair. It's very comfortable, and it looks ok.
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Dont worry, Erdogans Media uncovered why the coup is crushed, their GTA IV cheat coeds did not work.
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We are such a meme country fml
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On August 03 2016 22:24 Skynx wrote: We are such a meme country fml You have hot journalist tho.
Can you give us a traduction ? What are they doing with those books ? Burning because they're haram ?
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On August 03 2016 21:18 Simberto wrote: I'd suggest just shaving off the remainder of your hair. It's very comfortable, and it looks ok. I tried this however I'm so ugly to myself this way and lack the balls to wear that "haircut".
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On August 04 2016 00:18 WhiteDog wrote:You have hot journalist tho. Can you give us a traduction ? What are they doing with those books ? Burning because they're haram ? There are some documents that some gulenist threw to the thrash, when the lady saw the cheats, she thought they were some codes since there are things like : armor, weapon, tank, health... Obviously it became a huge meme in the country. Next day the channel apologized on the news for what happened
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United States22883 Posts
On August 03 2016 16:57 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2016 05:56 Jibba wrote: It's worth pointing out that the difference between many Kurdish dialects is more extreme than the differences between the romance languages. They may share a similar ethnic background, but there's like 50+ tribes and holding them together would be an extremely difficult task - especially in a war zone. 10 years ago, while Turkey's Kurdish problem was largely quelled, most Turkish Kurds referred to themselves as Turks, and I'm sure many would still prefer it that way.
That's not to say a Kurdistan shouldn't exist, but that you can't just throw a bunch of people in it based on ethnic heritage and expect them to fit. The Turks thought that would happen with Turkmen after the fall of the Soviet Union, but the country was much closer to Russian culture than Turkish culture. The same distance exists between Turkish, Iraqi and Iranian Kurds. I have spent a couple of weeks in turkish Kurdistan in 2007 and I don't even recall finding anyone who would be willing to call himself a Turk. Sure, I don't speak much turkish, so there is some bias towards more educated people or tourist-industry people, but we communicate even with completely non-english-speaking families. We aren't even very open when travelling, but in Kurdistan, it's impossible to not get in touch with the locals, they are extremely hospitable even for MIddle East standards. I would guess it's different in bigger cities, but the smaller places we went to were definitely Kurdish. I don't have JSTOR access anymore but my comment was based on Murat Somer's paper from 2004.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/4330003?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
I may have skewed the finding - it was that most Kurds in Turkey consider themselves Turkish Kurds, and not simply Kurds.
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On August 03 2016 20:51 NukeD wrote:How safe is it for me to come to Turkey and have a hair transplant? Im bald(ing)
It may be a little bit too late but it is as safe as 5-10 years ago, imo. Or I get used to it.
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