The idea that's spinning in my head is: Drop the DPS of the lurker, raise the move speed of the brood lord, because right now, lurkers just seem like better brood lords.
Thoughts?
Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
InfCereal
Canada1740 Posts
The idea that's spinning in my head is: Drop the DPS of the lurker, raise the move speed of the brood lord, because right now, lurkers just seem like better brood lords. Thoughts? | ||
LHK
204 Posts
I do agree they should get some love in some way, but the problem is because broodlings are free they may be too broken, and honestly nobody wants to return to the BL/INF days. Honestly I wish they'd just do a complete rework, maybe instead of spawning broodlings literally they shoot like a Guardian and generate some DoT on the target with the "broodlings" attacking it, instead of free units that mess up pathings in a huge way. | ||
PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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InfCereal
Canada1740 Posts
On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: They already got their range buffed; Broodlords did? | ||
Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On October 05 2015 10:52 InfCereal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: They already got their range buffed; Broodlords did? From 8.5 to 10. | ||
varsovie
Canada326 Posts
On October 05 2015 10:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 10:52 InfCereal wrote: On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: They already got their range buffed; Broodlords did? From 8.5 to 10. Is it still 14 with micro (and more with rally)? | ||
FLuE
United States1012 Posts
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
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InfCereal
Canada1740 Posts
On October 05 2015 10:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 10:52 InfCereal wrote: On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: They already got their range buffed; Broodlords did? From 8.5 to 10. I didn't realize. That's a pretty huge buff. | ||
jinjin5000
Korea (South)1266 Posts
Guardians did that purpose but it didnt have the ground unit blockers. | ||
PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On October 05 2015 12:16 jinjin5000 wrote: broodlord with viper and other air support is incredibly hard to deal with already. Maybe if the broodlings were gone, they could be the siege air to ground unit with decent mobility, but as of now, you can't. Guardians did that purpose but it didnt have the ground unit blockers. Long-range Air to Ground units still have inherent problems in that they must be countered from the air. The tempest is similarly required to be extremely slow. Broodwar had units like the goliath that could actually respond to such units from the ground. We currently don't really have any. | ||
DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On October 05 2015 12:22 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 12:16 jinjin5000 wrote: broodlord with viper and other air support is incredibly hard to deal with already. Maybe if the broodlings were gone, they could be the siege air to ground unit with decent mobility, but as of now, you can't. Guardians did that purpose but it didnt have the ground unit blockers. Long-range Air to Ground units still have inherent problems in that they must be countered from the air. The tempest is similarly required to be extremely slow. Broodwar had units like the goliath that could actually respond to such units from the ground. We currently don't really have any. Blink stalker and, in theory, the cyclone are the best things to deal with the long-range siege air units. Zerg has the viper, but thats an air unit I guess. Its a struggle using hydras vs BLs: you have to flank with hydras | ||
TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
The only way that it would even be possible to buff the Brood Lord was if they nerfed the Ultralisk. | ||
Daizer
69 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On October 05 2015 11:07 varsovie wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 10:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: On October 05 2015 10:52 InfCereal wrote: On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: They already got their range buffed; Broodlords did? From 8.5 to 10. Is it still 14 with micro (and more with rally)? I know that it's 12.5 at the very least, but I haven't practiced getting it to its full extent in LotV. I'm strangely bad with BL control, even though I love to see people using it well in pro games. | ||
TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 05 2015 12:46 DilemaH wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 12:22 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: On October 05 2015 12:16 jinjin5000 wrote: broodlord with viper and other air support is incredibly hard to deal with already. Maybe if the broodlings were gone, they could be the siege air to ground unit with decent mobility, but as of now, you can't. Guardians did that purpose but it didnt have the ground unit blockers. Long-range Air to Ground units still have inherent problems in that they must be countered from the air. The tempest is similarly required to be extremely slow. Broodwar had units like the goliath that could actually respond to such units from the ground. We currently don't really have any. Blink stalker and, in theory, the cyclone are the best things to deal with the long-range siege air units. Zerg has the viper, but thats an air unit I guess. Its a struggle using hydras vs BLs: you have to flank with hydras Cyclones can't get close enough to deal with broodlords. The only real option in engagements is vikings and ravens, though the efficiency of ravens has been drastically reduced. | ||
CrazyBread92
United States53 Posts
Broodlings get in the way of cyclone pathing so that doesn't work | ||
Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On October 19 2015 05:13 Pontius Pirate wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 11:07 varsovie wrote: On October 05 2015 10:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: On October 05 2015 10:52 InfCereal wrote: On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: They already got their range buffed; Broodlords did? From 8.5 to 10. Is it still 14 with micro (and more with rally)? I know that it's 12.5 at the very least, but I haven't practiced getting it to its full extent in LotV. I'm strangely bad with BL control, even though I love to see people using it well in pro games. Wait, how do you get more range with micro? | ||
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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jinjin5000
Korea (South)1266 Posts
On October 19 2015 06:20 ROOTFayth wrote: he probably figures that since he backs while the broodlings are traveling from air to ground it counts as more range but it actually doesn't Yea this is it. Broodlord has slight delay before firing, so it can back off after it fires instead of remaining static. | ||
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
When you get composition consisting of Lurkers, Brood Lords and Vipers you feel unstoppable. If it is late late game you can add something like Ultras/Corruptors/Infestors and it seems like something that is impossible to deal with. | ||
jinjin5000
Korea (South)1266 Posts
On October 19 2015 06:29 Ramiz1989 wrote: IIRC Brood Lords had 9.5 range and now have 11? They are slow moving siege units that generate free units, I don't think that they need any buffs at all and are in perfect place right now, and are probably too strong in certain compositions but they are not the problem in those compositions. When you get composition consisting of Lurkers, Brood Lords and Vipers you feel unstoppable. If it is late late game you can add something like Ultras/Corruptors/Infestors and it seems like something that is impossible to deal with. I would say BL is contributing as much as vipers in making it feel unstoppable. Viper stops the anti-air and broodlord's pathblocking denys the G2A unit just as much. | ||
BamBam
745 Posts
On October 05 2015 11:11 DilemaH wrote: The broodlord is an INCREDIBLY strong unit. It absolutely decimates ground armies. Its weakness is it's slow speed and lack of anti-air. If it gets a speed buff, it would be much stronger than it already is. Yea I mean, what if we were to give the broodlord an anti-air attack AND an ability to warp to anywhere in the map? Puurrddyyy imbalanced if you ask me. | ||
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 19 2015 06:33 jinjin5000 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 19 2015 06:29 Ramiz1989 wrote: IIRC Brood Lords had 9.5 range and now have 11? They are slow moving siege units that generate free units, I don't think that they need any buffs at all and are in perfect place right now, and are probably too strong in certain compositions but they are not the problem in those compositions. When you get composition consisting of Lurkers, Brood Lords and Vipers you feel unstoppable. If it is late late game you can add something like Ultras/Corruptors/Infestors and it seems like something that is impossible to deal with. I would say BL is contributing as much as vipers in making it feel unstoppable. Viper stops the anti-air and broodlord's pathblocking denys the G2A unit just as much. Nah, Brood Lords are siege that blocks ground and do solid damage but if you have enough dps you can melt Broodlings, Vipers on the other hand counter big number of smaller air/ground units with Parasitic Bomb/Blinding Cloud and snipe big air/ground units with Abducts. If you don't have Brood Lords in that composition, it is still incredibly strong, just as if you remove Lurkers, but without Vipers there are a ton of ways to engage and kill that composition. I mean Vipers are scary in any composition, others really are not. Current iteration of Viper probably counters everything... | ||
TorkkSC
29 Posts
Blink stalker and, in theory, the cyclone are the best things to deal with the long-range siege air units. Zerg has the viper, but thats an air unit I guess. Its a struggle using hydras vs BLs: you have to flank with hydras I would like you to try to use Blink Stalkers to counter Brood Lords. You need Tempests. Blink Stalkers will get destroyed by the pathing the Broodlings generate. And if you mass Blink under Brood Lords with ground support, you'll lose all of your Stalkers. | ||
shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
1. Bec it has ridiculous range 2. Ridiculous DPS Battlecruisers are slow as hell too, and carriers.. why not give it a speed buff /s? | ||
jinjin5000
Korea (South)1266 Posts
On October 19 2015 07:20 Ramiz1989 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 19 2015 06:33 jinjin5000 wrote: On October 19 2015 06:29 Ramiz1989 wrote: IIRC Brood Lords had 9.5 range and now have 11? They are slow moving siege units that generate free units, I don't think that they need any buffs at all and are in perfect place right now, and are probably too strong in certain compositions but they are not the problem in those compositions. When you get composition consisting of Lurkers, Brood Lords and Vipers you feel unstoppable. If it is late late game you can add something like Ultras/Corruptors/Infestors and it seems like something that is impossible to deal with. I would say BL is contributing as much as vipers in making it feel unstoppable. Viper stops the anti-air and broodlord's pathblocking denys the G2A unit just as much. Nah, Brood Lords are siege that blocks ground and do solid damage but if you have enough dps you can melt Broodlings, Vipers on the other hand counter big number of smaller air/ground units with Parasitic Bomb/Blinding Cloud and snipe big air/ground units with Abducts. If you don't have Brood Lords in that composition, it is still incredibly strong, just as if you remove Lurkers, but without Vipers there are a ton of ways to engage and kill that composition. I mean Vipers are scary in any composition, others really are not. Current iteration of Viper probably counters everything... Well, the problem is that when number of Broodlord starts to stack up because you dont need as much corruptors with parasitic bomb and all, its impossible for ground units to close in unless its bio units. larger units just get plain blocked with continuous rain of broodlings | ||
InfCereal
Canada1740 Posts
On October 19 2015 06:22 jinjin5000 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 19 2015 06:20 ROOTFayth wrote: he probably figures that since he backs while the broodlings are traveling from air to ground it counts as more range but it actually doesn't Yea this is it. Broodlord has slight delay before firing, so it can back off after it fires instead of remaining static. It still has to be in that range to trigger the attack. It doesn't extend its range. The broodlord will always have to be within its range to do any damage. | ||
Daizer
69 Posts
On October 19 2015 09:55 shin_toss wrote: Dude.. there's a reason why is it slow. 1. Bec it has ridiculous range 2. Ridiculous DPS Battlecruisers are slow as hell too, and carriers.. why not give it a speed buff /s? Except battlecruisers and carriers are way faster then BL | ||
Yiome
China1687 Posts
Would make broodlords much more mobile | ||
FireCake
151 Posts
He wants zerg to actually commit when they use broodlords. Now broodlords are very bad : ZvZ : impossible to transition to broodlords because of broodlords/ravager or mutas fight ZvP : completely useless because of skytoss imbalance ZvT : They come too late and requires upgrades to be useful, at this time the terran players already has many liberators that can deal with zerg air very easily. Also, ultralisk tech is a lot better than broodlords if the zerg manages to get T3 and melee/armor upgrades. Imo Broodlords should stay very fragile but their DPS or the amount of broodlings produced should be higher to reward players that can protect their broodlords. | ||
NightEnD
Romania107 Posts
regards | ||
NightEnD
Romania107 Posts
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NightEnD
Romania107 Posts
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FireCake
151 Posts
You can use the edit button instead of doing 3 posts consecutively. Also, it seems your english is at least as bad as mine, you should consider reading what you say before posting. edit : like that | ||
Daizer
69 Posts
On October 19 2015 23:28 NightEnD wrote: yeah i think they need a speed buff but i would aswell give them some dmg buff + i i think they should be t2 units like u make spire then u can startmaking broodlords . regards Im so shamed that where both from România. Trist pentru ca mereu dai răspunsuri ignorante, și mereu ți partea la Protoss deși sunt cei mai puternici, e dezgustător pentru romani care joaca terran sau zerg | ||
Vorck1
Finland16 Posts
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NightEnD
Romania107 Posts
On October 20 2015 00:11 Daizer wrote: Show nested quote + On October 19 2015 23:28 NightEnD wrote: yeah i think they need a speed buff but i would aswell give them some dmg buff + i i think they should be t2 units like u make spire then u can startmaking broodlords . regards Im so shamed that where both from România. Trist pentru ca mereu dai răspunsuri ignorante, și mereu ți partea la Protoss deși sunt cei mai puternici, e dezgustător pentru romani care joaca terran sau zerg genial ) | ||
Light28
2 Posts
Actualy i am very proud I am from the same country as NightEnD , but i could not say the same thing about geniuses like u who never got past bronze league. Inainte sa iti dai cu parerea despre joc prietene ar fi bine sa ajung top master (as zice gm dar stiu ca nu ai destui bani sa tebusteze cnv pana acolo) , pentru ca daca ai trece de Silver ai incelege de ce e o miscare idioata sa faci broodlorzii rapizi cu range de tempest( ar deveni SH si ar fi fix hots care a fost un joc ratat pt toss). @FireCake Ari toss is not imba , and toss is not imba aswell considering that on dreamhack qualif most tosses got out of the tournament in the last 8 I would recomend using a Nydus with Hydra,Queen, and lings at 3rd Vs air toss but considering the fact that for the last 3 yeas u just spammed SH and A move i am not expecting u to actually use ur brain when u play. User was banned for this post. | ||
Wrath
3174 Posts
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FireCake
151 Posts
On October 20 2015 03:13 Light28 wrote:considering the fact that for the last 3 yeas u just spammed SH and A move i am not expecting u to actually use ur brain when u play. Did you seriously create an account on teamliquid only to say this? lol | ||
Light28
2 Posts
GG , u exceeded the limit | ||
parkufarku
882 Posts
On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Lurkers and broodlords don't really serve similar roles at all so this wouldn't make any sense. Lurkers provide midgame space control, and broodlords are lategame air siege units. They already got their range buffed; I'd be wary of buffing them even more, because they require an air-based response, and vipers absolutely demolish Terran air. What? Terran air demolish anything Zerg has to offer. We're not talking simply Vikings. BCs, Ravens, Vikings, Thors | ||
TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 20 2015 04:31 parkufarku wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2015 10:48 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Lurkers and broodlords don't really serve similar roles at all so this wouldn't make any sense. Lurkers provide midgame space control, and broodlords are lategame air siege units. They already got their range buffed; I'd be wary of buffing them even more, because they require an air-based response, and vipers absolutely demolish Terran air. What? Terran air demolish anything Zerg has to offer. We're not talking simply Vikings. BCs, Ravens, Vikings, Thors This isn't true. There is no decent terran answer for viper/broodlord/corruptor. Ravens are a shadow of what they were in hots, parasitic bomb and corruptors easily deal with vikings, and I don't even know why you're including BCs and especially Thors vs zerg air because they're basically joke units at the moment. | ||
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