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On January 09 2012 04:57 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 04:16 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Are people seriously trying to implicate me on the basis of "soft-defending" risk by voting Erandorr instead? Well.. i made a slight error here (RoL had said he would vote for erandor here but he never voted) Erandor had four votes when HoD voted: Grackaroni, Blazinghand, Tyrran and Cwave Risk.nuke had 6 votes:syllogism, Refallen, Dirkzor, Zephirdd, layabout, Erandorr, @HoD your primary reasoning was to that to avoid a no-lynch you would vote for Erandorr because you were "fine with lynching him" in light of all of the pressure of risk.nuke why didn't you comment on it? if you wanted to avoid the no-lynch why did you vote Erandorr rather than voting for risk, who had the most votes? ...because I was leaning scum on Erandorr and was not on Risk. I didn't comment more on it because I was busy yesterday as I had to get shit ready for my girlfriend's birthday party/then was at it. For those wondering why I had a null read on risk, here is what Syllo said about him earlier this game:
Where is the active and opinionated and aggressive risk.nuke of Election mafia who posted a lot and certainly didn't just repeat what others had said, right or wrong? Here is me asking about him in Steamship:
@risk.nuke Last game I played with you you were extremely aggressive early on. This game you haven't attacked anyone yet, or even directly addressed someone. Any particular reason why you were active and aggressive last time, and are thus far being passive this game? Notice any similarities? Fun fact, he was town in steamship.
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On January 09 2012 05:23 layabout wrote:Fun fact: risk nuke was agressive day 1 in steamship Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 01:24 risk.nuke wrote: ##Vote Forumite
I'm not okey with you not responding to a direct vote against you. assertive vote for a clear reason Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 02:21 risk.nuke wrote:On November 17 2011 01:36 Forumite wrote:On November 17 2011 01:24 risk.nuke wrote: ##Vote Forumite
I'm not okey with you not responding to a direct vote against you. Please clarify, do you agree with the other votes and vote for that reason, or do you think me not responding is the scummy part? Neither and both. You're FoSing two people on nothing. And then there is a similar thing on Sabini. Add to that letting the vote on you slip by without a hint of defense from your side. I don't know what you are doing but it is not pro-town play and that is why I vote for you. attacks Forumite for a reason Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:32 risk.nuke wrote: Okey, but isn't this exacly one of those situations where we connected two people and should not lynch both of them incase they are town.
##Vote Kenpachi throws around his vote Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:47 risk.nuke wrote:On November 17 2011 06:34 GreYMisT wrote:On November 17 2011 06:32 risk.nuke wrote: Okey, but isn't this exacly one of those situations where we connected two people and should not lynch both of them incase they are town.
##Vote Kenpachi perhaps, but why choose to lynch kenpachi over the guy who anti-voted him? If kenpachi is green, then lanaia probably isn't scum. If kenpachi is red we got a scumkill even if that doesn't necessarily mean lanaia is his buddy. If lanai is green that means nothing for kenpachis alignment. If lanai is red then kenpachi is scum. I think we learn more from knowing kenpachis alignment. gives some reasoning Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:40 risk.nuke wrote:On November 17 2011 08:31 sinani206 wrote: scumbuddies
##Vote: Lanaia ##Vote: Kenpachi ##Vote: Sinani206 makes his second vote because of sinani's vote (kenpachi and sinani got lynched and both flipped blue, risk was town) So i actually this compared to this game risk nuke was aggressiv in attacking players even if he was relatively inactive. So your meta reason is bollocks Eventually he became aggressive, but he wasn't right off the bat. If my meta reason is bollocks, then what, did I magically post that in a prior game to cover my ass in this one? Don't be dense.
Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:32 risk.nuke wrote: Okey, but isn't this exacly one of those situations where we connected two people and should not lynch both of them incase they are town.
##Vote Kenpachi throws around his vote Also, if you were in this game, you would know that this is his vote being "thrown around" is the farthest thing from the truth. Lanaia had anti-voted kenpachi, immediately drawing intense suspicion to both of them and in most people minds requiring at least one of them to be flipped to settle the matter. Also, you could vote multiple people in that game, so he wasn't shifting his vote around.
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Edit, sentence fail:
Also, if you were in this game, you would know that calling this his vote being "thrown around" is the farthest thing from the truth.
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On January 09 2012 05:55 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +Eventually he became aggressive, but he wasn't right off the bat. If my meta reason is bollocks, then what, did I magically post that in a prior game to cover my ass in this one? Don't be dense. Your reasoning this game fir him being not scummy is that: In a previous game you felt he wasn't being aggressive at a certain point during day1 and that this might have made him scummy. He turned out to be town. In this game at a point near the end of day 1 risk nuke hadn't been aggressive and conclude that he isn't scummy, or completely dismiss the difference in play style. There is a difference in his play style and it was apparent when you voted. In this game he had had an awful lot longer to be aggressive but he wasn't (and still hasn't been). This means that actually his meta was different There were numerous other reasons that had been pointed out which you completely disregarded. Show nested quote +Also, if you were in this game, you would know that this is his vote being "thrown around" is the farthest thing from the truth. By "throw around" i mean used for pressure. In that game he was exercising he voting power and using it to get reactions out of people, in this game he hopped on erandor at the brink to save himself. Oh shit, he went 24 hours more than he did previously without being aggressive? Clearly scum! Also, when I voted I hadn't read the newer parts of the thread very carefully as I was busy most of yesterday so I went with my best scum read at the time. Deal with it.
And there definitely wasn't any aggressive tones in these posts, no, not at all! Before my vote:
On January 07 2012 09:04 risk.nuke wrote: Erandorr is very likely scum. Simply because a non-posting Erandorr is a red Erandorr.
Jackal58 is another person who would likely bleed red. The first thing he does is attack palmar and keeps at it using tunneling and fearmongering, while I am also slightly leaning red on palmar I don't think Jackal would hit him this hard if Jackal was town-aligned, he's just trying to get rid of palmar any means neccersary. He justifys it by saying he always attack palmar day 1 but I think this is just an excuse. He takes a break from his Palmar tunneling to rightfully rage alittle on people listing no-reads but it doesn't mean anything and he haven't contributed anything himself exept tunneling palmar. After it:
On January 08 2012 08:02 risk.nuke wrote: The one fucking thing that should make you realise what a bad lynch I am is how fucking easily I'm getting bandwagon-sheeped to the block. Layabout is really the only one who's tried to write some reasoning, even though it's really really bad reasoning that was all it took because with that and ridiculous meta-claims I'm free to sheep, you don't need to state why I'm scummy, hell this is a bandwagon the more the merrier right. What information will you get when I flip town? Squat. On January 08 2012 08:12 risk.nuke wrote: I should had taken a bus 10 minutes ago, but I'm waiting here for you, in the bloody of-chance that you might see some reason and change the lynch because if I left now I know I will die and when I flip town people is going to whine and bitch about how I gave up and let myself get lynched so please speak. On January 08 2012 08:48 risk.nuke wrote: Blazinghand quit beeing a huge troll. You did some pressuring but that's all you've done, after that you just got convinced of your own selfimportance so please tune it down. Now, can I stop talking about somebody I still have a damn null read on, or would you like me to keep wasting time on the matter?
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I was sent to purgatory? What in the fuck? Also, no unrevealed flip? So either syllo = angel of death (seems unlikely to me, but possible) or angel of death targeted him or me (seems much more likely, and probably him if I had to bet).
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On January 09 2012 10:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Ah man, who will I lynch today now? Also, the AoD either didn't hit, or it's one of HoD or syllo. Acolyte missed. All people sent to purgatory are now targets of the channeler. ...or the acolyte went after a demon and the demon hunter didn't hit anyone. With how scummy Palmar was still playing, there is a chance the angel's opted to try to kill him in case he started trying and found them. However, I agree it is more likely the acolyte missed.
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On January 09 2012 10:46 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 10:42 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: I was sent to purgatory? What in the fuck? Also, no unrevealed flip? So either syllo = angel of death (seems unlikely to me, but possible) or angel of death targeted him or me (seems much more likely, and probably him if I had to bet). Why would he flip?. He's not dead. You didn't flip. What? Why would who flip? I was/am confused that the angel of death didn't kill anyone and think it is most likely that syllo was targeted by the angel of death.
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On January 09 2012 11:22 Spaackle wrote:Well, now that we know that Palmar is scum, we should take a look at a post the he made earlier: Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 06:41 Palmar wrote: And when those two flip, kill risk.nuke, tyrran too. Probably bluelightz, and then find the last one. HoD is a possibility, so is Refallen, maybe Grackaroni...
Blazinghand, Cwave, Dirkzor, layabout, RebirthOfLeGenD, Spaackle, Zephirdd and Mr. Wiggles are town.
I'll bet we find Palmar's scumbuddies in the list of the people that he declared as townies. With all the suspicion he had on him, do you really think he would be so bold as to put both of his teammates in that list of townies?
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I agree that it was most likely Palmar that sent me to purgatory, as I can't see any town player choosing to protect me over syllo, and I can't see town trying to use it for the roleblock on me instead of protecting someone. What I am more confused about is why he would do that.
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Why I think I was put in purgatory: I think Palmar and/or his team mistakenly believed that I was the demon hunter due to these posts: + Show Spoiler +Detailed understanding of the role: On January 04 2012 17:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 17:46 Dirkzor wrote: Game on!
This setup scares the living shit out of me. So many nuances to keep track of. Anyway...
I agree that Angels appear to be strongest in the beginning with 1/2 KP. But what haven't been mentioned is that Angels can kill the demon for us aswell. If we lynch Angel of Death and Angelic Acolyte we will have to lynch/Demon hunter the Demons. Since I don't know the Demon hunter or how good that person is, he could just aswell kill 3 town people the first 3 nights which of course would not be very favourable for us. It basicly means we would need to do more correct lynches while having a good demon hunter that don't fuck us over with continously town kills. Demons also have the Twist ability which basicly makes one (1) of their members immune to night actions, rendering the demon hunter to be less useful.
What i wanted to point out that even if we get 3 correct Angel lynches (unlikely) the first 3 nights. The demons are equally capable to fuck us over. That is why I think that killing any angel or demon is good. Not one over the other. If we knew which angel or demon, it would be a different matter. Demon Hunter: Twister: Doesn't make any mention of attack (nor of sense). Demon hunter should be good to go on any twisted demons. First to point out that the demon hunter is also effective vs angels: On January 05 2012 03:55 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Some things to think about: If the town seer claims after finding a single angel we have a 2/3 chance of reducing their kp, 2/3 chance of making it much safer to claim corruption, and a 100% chance of getting a lot of good information after the angel flips. There are no abilities in the game which make the reads come back incorrect. The angels also DO NOT have a roleblocking ability, so they then have to decide if they want to target the seer and risk missing a kp if the seer is sent to purgatory or leave him be. Obviously this becomes much riskier if we have already lost our channeler. I'd be interested to hear if other people think having the seer claim after their first angel find is a good idea as well.
The sage on the other hand probably shouldn't claim unless he has 2 demons identified. If he claims with only one identified, 0% chance of reducing kp or reducing the corruption ability, demons have a roleblock ability, angels can kill the sage to make demons a larger threat to town thereby reducing focus on them. Still gain information obviously, but overall seems like a much weaker play than the seer claiming after finding an angel.
The demon hunter is not only useful against demons. His attacks kill anything that isn't an angel....meaning if his target lives and wasn't sent to purgatory, he has successfully identified an angel. However, since he poses a significant threat to both angels and demons, I don't really see much of a reason for the demon hunter to ever claim, except perhaps to avoid a lynch if he fucks up and appears scummy. So please don't do that.
On Bluelightz: I will go check out his filter in the newbie game to see what all the fuss is about. Unfortunately for the demons, and fortunately for us, they were incorrect and Palmar got stabbed in the face. (Yes, it is possible that it was the acolyte, but why would the angels kill someone they could get lynched when lynching is the only way for us to kill the angels?)
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On January 10 2012 03:19 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 03:16 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Why I think I was put in purgatory: I think Palmar and/or his team mistakenly believed that I was the demon hunter due to these posts: + Show Spoiler +Detailed understanding of the role: On January 04 2012 17:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 17:46 Dirkzor wrote: Game on!
This setup scares the living shit out of me. So many nuances to keep track of. Anyway...
I agree that Angels appear to be strongest in the beginning with 1/2 KP. But what haven't been mentioned is that Angels can kill the demon for us aswell. If we lynch Angel of Death and Angelic Acolyte we will have to lynch/Demon hunter the Demons. Since I don't know the Demon hunter or how good that person is, he could just aswell kill 3 town people the first 3 nights which of course would not be very favourable for us. It basicly means we would need to do more correct lynches while having a good demon hunter that don't fuck us over with continously town kills. Demons also have the Twist ability which basicly makes one (1) of their members immune to night actions, rendering the demon hunter to be less useful.
What i wanted to point out that even if we get 3 correct Angel lynches (unlikely) the first 3 nights. The demons are equally capable to fuck us over. That is why I think that killing any angel or demon is good. Not one over the other. If we knew which angel or demon, it would be a different matter. Demon Hunter: Twister: Doesn't make any mention of attack (nor of sense). Demon hunter should be good to go on any twisted demons. First to point out that the demon hunter is also effective vs angels: On January 05 2012 03:55 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Some things to think about: If the town seer claims after finding a single angel we have a 2/3 chance of reducing their kp, 2/3 chance of making it much safer to claim corruption, and a 100% chance of getting a lot of good information after the angel flips. There are no abilities in the game which make the reads come back incorrect. The angels also DO NOT have a roleblocking ability, so they then have to decide if they want to target the seer and risk missing a kp if the seer is sent to purgatory or leave him be. Obviously this becomes much riskier if we have already lost our channeler. I'd be interested to hear if other people think having the seer claim after their first angel find is a good idea as well.
The sage on the other hand probably shouldn't claim unless he has 2 demons identified. If he claims with only one identified, 0% chance of reducing kp or reducing the corruption ability, demons have a roleblock ability, angels can kill the sage to make demons a larger threat to town thereby reducing focus on them. Still gain information obviously, but overall seems like a much weaker play than the seer claiming after finding an angel.
The demon hunter is not only useful against demons. His attacks kill anything that isn't an angel....meaning if his target lives and wasn't sent to purgatory, he has successfully identified an angel. However, since he poses a significant threat to both angels and demons, I don't really see much of a reason for the demon hunter to ever claim, except perhaps to avoid a lynch if he fucks up and appears scummy. So please don't do that.
On Bluelightz: I will go check out his filter in the newbie game to see what all the fuss is about. Unfortunately for the demons, and fortunately for us, they were incorrect and Palmar got stabbed in the face. (Yes, it is possible that it was the acolyte, but why would the angels kill someone they could get lynched when lynching is the only way for us to kill the angels?) Gloating and WIFOM in the same post? scummy? What gloating? And it isn't WIFOM, it is the simplest explanation. There is no 'but then they would think I know they know I am the demon hunter and not do anything about it!' Zero WIFOM involved. Some speculation, yes, but that is quite different from WIFOM. If you were a demon, who would you most like to roleblock? I would think certainly the demon hunter, possibly sage, but most likely demon hunter if nobody is corrupted yet.
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On January 09 2012 19:58 syllogism wrote: I'm pretty sure palmar sent HoD to purgatory because he thought he was likely an angel. We of course can't draw any conclusions from that, but as noted before HoD's play has been somewhat suspicious so far. Anyway, either the angel of death attempted to hit me or the angel is HoD (or both!)
It's also fairly likely that Palmar was a demon hunter hit because demon Demonic Twister's power protects against slay/stalk but not against demon hunter. Palmar had an important role, so it's somewhat likely that they would use it on him. I'm not sure if the twister can use the ability on himself, but right considering Palmar was by far attracting the most attention, that might change things depending on who the twister is. The only reason why it matters who hit Palmar is because the other possibility is that the demon hunter hit an angel who did not die, in which case we could discuss whether him claiming would be worthwhile. Probably not and his likely target would be risk nuke anyway.
Risk.nuke still looks like the best lynch. The case against him still stands and quite a few people were against his lynch without adequately explaining why. They obviously can't all be his team mates, but it's hard to believe there would be that many townies unwilling to lynch him in that situation and be perfectly fine with lynching erandorr. His behaviour hasn't improved at all and that vt claim right before day post doesn't seem like something a townie would do. Syllo, you're pretty smart, so please tell me why on earth you think Palmar would banish me to purgatory if he thought I was an angel?
Let's look at the scenarios: 1) I am the Angelic Observer - sending me to purgatory does nothing for the demons. 2) I am the Acolyte - unless I for some reason decide to go after a demon instead of a blue, does nothing for the demons. If I do go after blues, doing this hurts the demons. 3) I am the Angel of Death - I would never hit Palmar when I could get town to use up a lynch on him as lynching is the only anti-angel kp. Also leading a scum lynch can get some town cred. So one demon (Palmar) is safe. Another demon can be twisted, so now 2 are safe. Note, so far this also applies to the acolyte even if the acolyte is targeting a demon. So now blocking the angel of death is only useful if the third demon is also a likely target for a scum night kill.
I don't see how any of those are a better choice than targeting someone you think is a blue, especially if you have no idea which I am and are taking the 1/3 chance of a remotely useful roleblock. As I stated, I think it is much more likely he thought I was blue than an angel.
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On January 10 2012 03:51 layabout wrote:What Purpose does the Post "Why I think I was put in purgatory" serve? How does it help town? I think Palmar and/or his team mistakenly believed that I was the demon hunter due to these posts: You connect the idea of you being sent to purgatory* with the idea that your posting caused the demons to think that you were the demon hunter. You present the idea of your posts being responsible for the angels banishing you because you have made them think that you were the demonhunter. From this it would easily be infered that you posted TO make them think you were they demon hunter. You then say To me this seems like gloating because you associate the demons thinking that you were the demon hunter (which is WIFOM and total speculation) with a demon being lynchedI don't see how this helps town but i do see how you associate your posting at the start of the game and a demon flipping and how this tries to put you in a better light despite the fact that your decisions about how to behave were almost certainly not made with that goal in mind and if they were the actual chance of them acheiving the result of a dead demon is next to none. That is why i see it as gloating. Speculation about scum motivation and scum goals when they commit actions that will be subject to scrutiny is what part of your post is and is almost the perfect example of WIFOM. *which could have been because either the channeller though you were a town asset to protect or a demon or angel to roleblock OR the demons felt that you were a blue or an angel OR you were targeted by one of the two because they felt night actions would land on you and they wished to roleblock those targerting you OR they may have simply wanted increase attention on you. There is a plethora of reasons that could be the case and without addition information we cannot rule many out. If the demons send a player to purgatory they know towwn will find out and this will impact their decision making. The post serves to help clarify the situation and give town some potentially useful information, clarity and information are both valuable to town. Ideally it also lowers suspicion on myself, which seeing as I know I am town, is also good for town. Also, as I said, it is NOT WIFOM if the goal is to roleblock. Not doing it doesn't roleblock me, it isn't like if I was the demon hunter I'd go "better not send in a night action in case I get roleblocked!" Roleblocking stops someone from using their role if roleblock them, and doesn't if you don't do it.
WIFOM is they killed x, he was suspicious of y! Does that mean y is scum, or they want us to think y is scum? Yes, it is possible they wanted to increase suspicion on me as well, and that part is subject to WIFOM'ing. (They wanted to make me more suspicious, so that actually makes me less suspicious, but they would know that so it is more suspicious....etc etc etc)
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On January 10 2012 04:22 layabout wrote:Show nested quote + The post serves to help clarify the situation and give town some potentially useful information, clarity and information are both valuable to town. Ideally it also lowers suspicion on myself, which seeing as I know I am town, is also good for town. Also, as I said, it is NOT WIFOM if the goal is to roleblock. Not doing it doesn't roleblock me, it isn't like if I was the demon hunter I'd go "better not send in a night action in case I get roleblocked!" Roleblocking stops someone from using their role if roleblock them, and doesn't if you don't do it.
WIFOM is they killed x, he was suspicious of y! Does that mean y is scum, or they want us to think y is scum? Yes, it is possible they wanted to increase suspicion on me as well, and that part is subject to WIFOM'ing. (They wanted to make me more suspicious, so that actually makes me less suspicious, but they would know that so it is more suspicious....etc etc etc)
You haven't said what the "potentially useful information is" yet you say that you have given it and that it was valuable to town. You don't know what the goal is! You can'teven know for certain who palmar transported (unless you are a demon and he told you or you are the channeller). I suggest that the whole thing is subject to WIFOM-ing. It is called "Why i think i was put in Purgatory", what exactly can you follow that up with that is wifom!! Wifom is also: did Palmar tansported HoD? why? Does that mean HoD is scum with him? Did Palmar think he was the other scumteam? Did Palmar wish to increase suspicion? since your post provides answers to those questions and attempts to explain them then yes it is WIFOM. It isn't helpful. *sigh* So if you think this is pure WIFOM, why are you even discussing it? I found a simple explanation for my being sent to purgatory, simple explanations are often correct. And no, I can't know for certain that it was Palmar that did it, but if it was the town channeler then our channeler is dumb as fuck, which I find unlikely. The valuable information is what likely happened in regards to the night actions last night. Knowing our own roles and alignments, Syllo and I have better insight into it than most. Obviously the channeler, demon hunter, and scum teams know a good deal as well, but I doubt they'll be claiming just to clarify this.
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On January 10 2012 04:09 Cwave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 03:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Syllo, you're pretty smart, so please tell me why on earth you think Palmar would banish me to purgatory if he thought I was an angel?
Let's look at the scenarios: 1) I am the Angelic Observer - sending me to purgatory does nothing for the demons. 2) I am the Acolyte - unless I for some reason decide to go after a demon instead of a blue, does nothing for the demons. If I do go after blues, doing this hurts the demons. 3) I am the Angel of Death - I would never hit Palmar when I could get town to use up a lynch on him as lynching is the only anti-angel kp. Also leading a scum lynch can get some town cred. So one demon (Palmar) is safe. Another demon can be twisted, so now 2 are safe. Note, so far this also applies to the acolyte even if the acolyte is targeting a demon. So now blocking the angel of death is only useful if the third demon is also a likely target for a scum night kill.
I don't see how any of those are a better choice than targeting someone you think is a blue, especially if you have no idea which I am and are taking the 1/3 chance of a remotely useful roleblock. As I stated, I think it is much more likely he thought I was blue than an angel. Wowowowo, you oversee(on purpose?) one thing. This is a 3 faction game but when it comes to lyncing, its a 2 faction game looking from your own POV(town,angel,demon). Lynching is our only way to kill angels and demons help just as much with their lynch vote as the town when it comes to killing an angel. So your point 3 is wrong cause when you are the AoD you want demon and town dead as they can lynch vote you. And of all the demons, the demonic courier is the one that can actually hurt the angel team. So hell yeah you would hit Palmar if you knew he was the courier. Point 1) can you out your angel of death and get him couriered for 3 straight nights. Point 2) can get you the twister or courier killed, all in the benefit of both the town and angels. Another weird point if that you choose to eloborate point 3) with way more effort and text. If this was "The mentalist" or "Lie to me" i would call dibs in the couch on who was the liar as people tend to put to much effort in the lie they want to tell. Points up on my suspected angel-list HoB...... ...but there is literally a 0% chance of angels knowing which demon role Palmar was before he flipped so that is irrelevant. And you hit blues over demons because the seer, demon hunter, and channeler are all incredibly potent town assets against angels, and demons being alive gives you valid targets to scum hunt and get lynched instead of your teammates. If town is weak, sure, they might start killing off some demons on purpose, but them doing so now would be stupid. I elaborated point 3 because it was the only one that might actually be worth a damn to the demons.
Now, unless anyone has specific questions for me or actually wants to lynch me instead of just saying "I think he might be an angel" and then doing nothing about it, I will no longer be mentioning my trip to purgatory/what I think the reasoning behind it is and will instead focus on more useful shit.
On January 10 2012 03:08 layabout wrote: Suspicious bastards: risk.nuke Refallen Tyrran Dirkzor RoL Jackal? (there is town there but i think these players should receive heightened attention) Hey look - a list! Care to explain anything about it? Lists without reasons are pretty useless filler.
@Tyrran You still have yet to make any real contributions. Planning to start doing so any time soon?
@Those suspicious of Syllo I think you are mistaken. The odds of him being a demon after his interactions with Palmar seems quite low to me, unless he was willing to bus Palmar today, he mentioned Palmar was essentially claiming scum during the night. I think it is very likely he was targeted by the angel of death, the only way I could see him not being town is if he is the angel of death.
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On January 10 2012 04:48 layabout wrote:@ Hod Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 03:08 layabout wrote: Suspicious bastards: risk.nuke If you do not know why he is here then you aren't reading the thread Refallen Some found him scummy day1 but the lie about voting erandorr is one of the most anti-town acts thusfar Tyrran Not posted a whole lot, persistently called scum but has done nothing to help town nor suggest townie. Dirkzor I literally just wrote why (he is a fairly new addition) RoL For suggesting a plan that could easily have caused lylo day 4 with no blues and his actions around lynch-time. Jackal? His actions around lynch time and lack of justification and lack of willingness to discuss. (least scummy) (there is town there but i think these players should receive heightened attention) If you had been reading the thread the least obvious would have been Tyrran because i haven't really talked about him up until this point. The others i feel i have already justified in a way that makes your questioning redundant. Why insinuate that I haven't been reading the thread? I assure you I have read every post at least once, and most more than that. Also, I started writing that post (and my one immediately prior) before your explanation of Dirkzor, and had not refreshed since then. I have no way of knowing if you have posted 100% of your reasoning for a player being scum, I saw you had called RoL's plan bad, but so had lots of people, and I don't think merely suggesting it is enough to make him scum and wanted to know if there was anything else. Syllo already pointed out why your reasoning for Refallen is questionable, and I honestly didn't think you would deem him scummy solely on that. Presumably after Palmar's flip Jackal looks better - he strongly wanted people to vote Palmar, so I wanted to know what your reasoning was there. As you said, you hadn't mentioned much on Tyrran yet. Hey look, my question was valid on 5/6 (or 4/6 had I refreshed earlier), sure was redundant!
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@Zephirdd Care to elaborate on what it is about Tyrran's posting that makes you change your mind between here
On January 08 2012 13:54 Zephirdd wrote: I dont think Tyrran is a good kill, in fact he is playinmg just like his meta. And here:
On January 10 2012 02:27 Zephirdd wrote: -snipped- No, there is not enough info for pushing a lynch, but I'd like people to keep an eye on him. Also Tyrran, his posts are weird for me. Changing your mind is obviously fine, but I'd like to know why beyond "his posts are weird".
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On January 10 2012 05:39 layabout wrote:@HoD If you wanted me to provide 100% of my reasoning then you should have asked that. I had said enough previously for your vague question of "care to anything about it" to be redundant. You call it empty useless filler. Your posting today has been empty useless filler. Unless you have anything valid and worthy of my attention to say to me then I am going to ignore you for as long as I feel like/ I could have asked that, but townies usually like to be transparent in their actions, so I thought asking if you'd like to explain would suffice. Also, please don't use the quote tag and then include something which is not a quote. That is misleading. The actual quote is:
Care to explain anything about it? Not :Care to anything about it?
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On January 10 2012 06:12 Cwave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 04:09 Cwave wrote:On January 10 2012 03:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Syllo, you're pretty smart, so please tell me why on earth you think Palmar would banish me to purgatory if he thought I was an angel?
Let's look at the scenarios: 1) I am the Angelic Observer - sending me to purgatory does nothing for the demons. 2) I am the Acolyte - unless I for some reason decide to go after a demon instead of a blue, does nothing for the demons. If I do go after blues, doing this hurts the demons. 3) I am the Angel of Death - I would never hit Palmar when I could get town to use up a lynch on him as lynching is the only anti-angel kp. Also leading a scum lynch can get some town cred. So one demon (Palmar) is safe. Another demon can be twisted, so now 2 are safe. Note, so far this also applies to the acolyte even if the acolyte is targeting a demon. So now blocking the angel of death is only useful if the third demon is also a likely target for a scum night kill.
I don't see how any of those are a better choice than targeting someone you think is a blue, especially if you have no idea which I am and are taking the 1/3 chance of a remotely useful roleblock. As I stated, I think it is much more likely he thought I was blue than an angel. Wowowowo, you oversee(on purpose?) one thing. This is a 3 faction game but when it comes to lyncing, its a 2 faction game looking from your own POV(town,angel,demon). Lynching is our only way to kill angels and demons help just as much with their lynch vote as the town when it comes to killing an angel. So your point 3 is wrong cause when you are the AoD you want demon and town dead as they can lynch vote you. And of all the demons, the demonic courier is the one that can actually hurt the angel team. So hell yeah you would hit Palmar if you knew he was the courier. Point 1) can you out your angel of death and get him couriered for 3 straight nights. Point 2) can get you the twister or courier killed, all in the benefit of both the town and angels. Another weird point if that you choose to eloborate point 3) with way more effort and text. If this was "The mentalist" or "Lie to me" i would call dibs in the couch on who was the liar as people tend to put to much effort in the lie they want to tell. Points up on my suspected angel-list HoB...... As you choose to ignore my post and after reading your responses, you are forcing me to vote for your lynch HoD. Show nested quote +As I stated, I think it is much more likely he thought I was blue than an angel. But what where you, you nowhere explain it from your POV but only from Palmar's. You explain incomplete scenarios for Angel possibilities trying to steer away but nowhere go into depth about the blue/town side. Might be because you want to protect your blue role or live as town............. You only have to fear the lynch if you are an angel..... ...so in my explanation of why Palmar sent me to purgatory, you want me to use my perspective instead of Palmar's? Also, I did respond to your post, what do you mean I ignored it? Or did you want me to use my perspective instead of the Angels' for explaining why the Angels wouldn't target a demon night one? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your post, but it makes no sense to me.
My response:
...but there is literally a 0% chance of angels knowing which demon role Palmar was before he flipped so that is irrelevant. And you hit blues over demons because the seer, demon hunter, and channeler are all incredibly potent town assets against angels, and demons being alive gives you valid targets to scum hunt and get lynched instead of your teammates. If town is weak, sure, they might start killing off some demons on purpose, but them doing so now would be stupid. I elaborated point 3 because it was the only one that might actually be worth a damn to the demons.
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On January 10 2012 06:29 Cwave wrote: How is it not in the best interest of both the Angel Party and Demon party to try and hit the courier? Noone could know that ofcourse but if you are either scum team and you suspect someone is scum aswell, you have a 1/3 to hit the courier right? Good odds imo and it seems Angel team wanted Palmar dead.
Well, the courier is a demon, so pretty damn sure it isn't in their best interest to hit him.
Good odds imo and it seems Angel team wanted Palmar dead. What evidence do you have for the angel team wanting him dead (at least more so than any other non-angel)? And why would they want him dead via night kill instead of taking up a lynch if they thought that was possible to get him lynched?
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