Liquid City Mafia
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On September 25 2012 06:39 grush57 wrote: It's not even like I troll.. Oh well. My own STARSENSESSSS tell me otherwise. | ||
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On September 30 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote: /in I am going to play like a troll this game. You have all been warned. unwise | ||
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Sup guys! ##Vote Shady Sands | ||
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Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? | ||
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On September 30 2012 13:31 Keirathi wrote: Yea, okay I don't want to read that all game. Why did you let him in again, DrH? this | ||
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Does liquid city have a psych ward? | ||
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Shiaopi I feel for you LVII was a tragedy that should never happen again. Hope kush doesn't follow the same path he chose the game he just came out of. So now I guess this game can have a proper start then. Sup guys! ##Unvote | ||
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I don't like trolls and want them to die. That's about it. | ||
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His "all is as was planned" reaction afterwards is the most ridiculous thing he's ever posted imo and just makes me want to punch him. + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 13:54 Shady Sands wrote: Yes! Thank goodness the gambit worked. The whole plan was either to troll hard and have some fun, or enjoy a serious, non-troll game of Mafia by inciting the mod to explicitly threaten a modkill for trolling and scare all the trolls into the straight and narrow. Shiao, you can thank me after the game is over. With that being said, I find the easy rando-vote at the beginning highly suspicious. ## Unvote ## Vote Z-Boson Explain your rando-vote without trolling as a factor. I don't see how that's scum-motivated, I'd like someone to explain this to me. At best, it makes him a snot I want to punch. Coags latest post however: On October 01 2012 11:17 Coagulation wrote: Im content with lynching Shady Sands. Does anyone have a better person to lynch at this point? I havnt seen anyone that screams scum aside from shady... gotta work with what we got. Strikes me as much scummier. He didn't feel the need to say why SS seems scummy, as if it were crystal clear as to why he is scum. I also don't like that kingjames fellow. His posts are almost all useless, and don't add basically anything. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 03:17 kingjames01 wrote: If we want lurkers to post more, then we all have to contribute meaningfully. This will force scum to come out of hiding in order to fit in. They're going to try to post from the perspective that they're Town but it's pretty hard to do so. At that point we can work on who actually cares about scum hunting and who is just pretending. On October 01 2012 01:33 kingjames01 wrote: What? I didn't say that it was contrived. I said it seemed contrived. The point was that it seemed contrived. And his "interrogation" of shady sands, which I don't clearly see the purpose of: On October 01 2012 11:39 kingjames01 wrote: So what we're shifting towards is whether Shady's 'plan' to preempt trolling was legitimate or a cover-up? That should not be the focus of our first day. Instead, I'd like Shady to come back to the thread and give us something more concrete. Shady: what do you think about the assertion that I was being wishy-washy? Also, tell us if you have a spy read on anyone yet, who and why. One more thing that I don't like is VisceraEyes's case history. Spends a billion posts tunneling annul, based on a "trying to spot clues" (?) read. Then suddenly feels that his emotions got the better of him, and reconsiders. Which is funny, because VE started the attacks. It's not like he was attacked and got emotinal. -snip- At this point I'm null - I got a false read on him early on, and while I think his anger at me seems a little contrived, I know I've overreacted once or twice to people calling my posts stupid or something. Once that I remember for sure. Maybe twice. I've seen him play scum. He's pretty terrifying and that may have biased my read earlier. Then in this post: On October 01 2012 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: @slOosh Shady is an intelligent guy. Poor play isn't something I'd use to write Shady off. I mean, he's not super awesome like me, but he's good enough to know that what he's doing is newb shit which means it has to be intentional. And while it's possible that he's being straight up with the whole "Oh you know, I wanted to martyr myself to the mod as an example", I tend to think that he's just trying get out of hot water before he's in it, so to speak...which is a scum trait. In fact, ##Vote: ShadySands Going MIA after making shitty accusations and troll entrance is like...strike three for me. @Everyone else I find nothing scummy about KJ's input on scumhunting in an inactivish environment. If that's all he's got, then we'll talk. As it stands though, that one singular post is better than the several who haven't posted at all. That being said, the whole "seemed contrived/was contrived" nonsense does need clarification. @KJ "...seemed contrived" is the same thing as "was contrived" in the context of analyzing behavior. If you're town, then if something "seems contrived" then that's suspicious because townies have no reason to fake it. Saying something that X said "seems contrived" means the same thing as "It looks to me like X is faking his reaction" - do you not understand how someone would get defensive about that? And then trying to paint it scummy (Y U DEFENSIVE) on top of that makes it seem like you're trying to set him up. Ultimately, you're after meaningful contribution and you have provided none. There's stuff going on in the game worth commenting on, and presently you're not. I'm willing to lynch into ShadySands, kingjames01 as it stands. We really need more content from everyone though. He finally addresses shady sands and proposes to vote on him. Now look at how he addresses kingjames. In this same post, he goes from a "not a scum read", to a "someone I want dead". At first I thought it was understandable because he was referring specifically to KJ's input on scumhunting in an inactivish environment. However, it's the bolded underlined part that gets to me. What I understood here is that if KJ only had the one post, he would be better than those who haven't posted at all. But then he goes to say that KJ is not commenting on stuff going on in the game (when, ironically, he himself had only just addressed shady sands, which is the first big issue) plus a bunch of other confusing stuff I don't follow, thus putting KJ as a bigger scum read than the rest. I'd like him to clarify this. This concludes the people I don't like so far. Out of those, VE seems the scummiest to me, because his play doesn't make sense for me from a town perspective, his conflict with annul seemed too fake. ##FOS VE | ||
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On October 01 2012 13:20 Coagulation wrote: OH OK Man thanks for saving us from the trolls. SO BRAVE. Lynch him. and then lynch the shit out of z-boson when he flips scum. Oh, ok, so it's so obvious that shady is scum, that whoever doesn't agree, is scum? Right. Since it's so obvious, let's hear it. | ||
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On October 01 2012 13:44 Keirathi wrote: You were the first to vote him for his trolling. Why don't you explain why you changed your mind from it being enough that you wanted to "mega-vote" him, into it not being scummy at all? That's because he stopped trolling. My vote on him was more of a "omfg stfu!" than a "he is scum". FFS, the man said he was gonna troll before he got his role. | ||
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On October 01 2012 13:45 Keirathi wrote: Oh, so you're another person that's content with lynching townies over finding actual scum. Gotcha. Hmm? Not following. Read my case on VE? | ||
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Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. | ||
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On coag, its a pity that's how he plays then, I hate ppl like that. Hope seeing his brilliant play in day 2. I still don't like how VE attacked annul though, but given this was the beggining of day one I don't necessarily think that part is scum motivated. I'd like him to be clearer on KJ, though. Risk, yea you should read my post, I specifically addressed that. Marv, I just don't feel that way. Shady usually comes off scummy as shit no matter his alignment, so I don't think that is enough to push a lynch. | ||
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Node seems to disagree with you, on the bolded part. @marv Yea his not making a single case yet with no followup for his vote on me is definitely suspicious. In XXIV he was all over the place. I don't like how most of the votes on him are based solely on the trolliness, which is an entirely different saspect. Kush is another player that is heavily scummy, and he has a very hard time making cases when he's scum, so I'd rather wait a bit before taking a stance on him. I don't like, however, how sharrant dealt with why ss isn't scummy, especially his explanation on how it could be town/scum motivated. My view is just that he has some issues and thought it would be funny, and in his embarassment he posted a ridiculous "according to plan" follow up that increased his ridiculousness, and tthats iT, nothing more. What happens after is an entirely different matter, but not why ppl are wanting to lynch him for. God, typing on my cellphone takes forever | ||
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##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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I hadn't seen your reply to my post, so I thought you basically had taken the same path as coag. I'm fine with your explanations, I just found it weird how you started the thread off by attacking annul. After reading the last two pages, I'm definitely more inclined for a KJ vote now, especially in light of his reactions after he's getting close to being lynched. His case against Mementoss is the laziest one I've seen yet. ("he doesn't care about town win condition"). Ironically, dismisses austin's vote as silly, when his own doesn't have a "real reason". He posted some lame excuse (aka resistance forum) for not being around. And finally, instead of commenting on the current cases and actually to scumhunt before he dies he spends his time tallying up a vote count. Classic fluff. So, after proper reading I've had a change of heart. ##Unvote ##Vote kingjames01 | ||
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On October 02 2012 01:33 Risen wrote: Oh, and if Z-Boson was just trying to get a reaction he would have rode the shit out of Shady like I rode prplhz. It's fine to be telling people how they can post more towny, because in the end scum is going to have to contradict themselves somewhere and their scumhunting is going to get called out, but just dropping the pressure you started and saying "oh hey game can start woo! That's just so scummy to me. I don't see that as scummy. Like I said before, my vote was more of a STFU rather than a "I want to lynch Shady Sands because I think he's scum because trolling is anti-town" However, at the moment I'm becoming more suspicious on Shady Sands due to his lack of follow-up. When he feels pressured he posts a lot more, right now he's just gone AWOL. He's promised cases and disappeared with them. Very odd. | ||
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On October 02 2012 05:37 Coagulation wrote: Looks like you better throw him back under the buss before its too late. Gotta get that town cred amiright? Yea, I also did that with kingjames. Look how townie I look now!! Please wait while I give an explanation for these! Oh wait, I already did, nvm. | ||
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I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. | ||
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BC's meta on kj has softened my feel towards KJ, and Node's one post to AWOL is very scum-like. | ||
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##Vote Node | ||
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Also, I can't find a good lynch target, so I'm viewing this mostly as a policy lynch. KJ still seems pretty damn scummy to me, but like BC pointed out, that's meta-consistent. (Right now in Day 1 I'm putting a lot of faith on what people are saying regarding meta. For example, I would rather lynch coag due to his shit posting, but apparently it's just the way he plays) So for me it was either keep it on KJ or change it to Node. Since KJ is posting a lot more I've decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and go for someone who has disappeared. | ||
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I've decided that I will not give a shit about what people are saying regarding meta and choose whoever I think is scummiest and makes a better lynch. I'm going with coagulation because of what I've stated earlier on him. He hasn't posted anything useful so far and flows along with content-less posts. Shows no real interest in scum hunting and his association with me on shady sands is ridiculous, as if he is incapable of reading. ##Unvote ##Vote Coagulation | ||
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I'm so tunneling coag day 2 | ||
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On October 02 2012 12:47 annul wrote: i don't like what i see in boson's filter. he jumps around like a pinball and has very strange logic for doing so (if he has any at all). I don't see what strange logic you are referring, I at least bothered explaining myself, even if not adequately. This game I'm not reading into as much as I would like, so I end up having a sheepy playstyle without much thought, and that is not how I usually play. (as you can see in all of my games and as marv will gladly say, I play much differently than this, town or scum) Will change that this time around though. Atm, without looking over the filters carefully, I'd prefer coag for a day 2 lynch. Once I've decently read this game I'll see what I can come up with. OMGUS on the side, your last-ditch vote on me came off as extremely weird. You had your vote on kush, changed it to me, then changed it to shady sands. In your case, you effectively didn't use logic at all, and yet you criticize me for not explaining myself and floating around the votes. I also don't like how you failed to answer my questions when you were heading up strong against the Node lynch. | ||
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On October 02 2012 13:24 annul wrote: this gave us little to no information, too, which is the worst part. On October 02 2012 13:23 annul wrote: fucking terrible Yet you voted for him in an incredibly suspicious manner, as I've stated above!!. That does not sound like you put too much thought there, does it? | ||
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On October 02 2012 13:33 Shady Sands wrote: lol town. well anyhow at least i won't have to deal with kush's trolling all game long Nice goodbye post. GG to you too | ||
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On October 02 2012 14:06 annul wrote: ive been pretty clearly on the record why i like the kush lynch. i moved to you because i did not like either the shady wagon or the node wagon and having read your filter, i did not like what i saw. then when shady pulled his last minute return thing, it became a no-brainer to jump onto him. What last minute return thing, this? Just stepped off plane. ## Vote Node since I'm not scum and even though I have no idea whether node is scum or not it makes more sense to lynch the person who might be scum than the person who I know is not scum. So after the two on-going arguments against him, you decide that this last quote automatically made him scummier than eveyrthing he had on him so far? I don't follow. | ||
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On October 02 2012 14:11 annul wrote: yes. Right. I rest my case. | ||
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And that explains why you vote switched me and then Shady Sands? | ||
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I don't get the nks though. Both kj and anul look like vig shots. I think mafia got really unlucky. | ||
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First off, his reaction to kreb makes me raise an eyebrow. He was extremely aggressive for something that could simply have been a townie thought. Kreb also hadn't made an association case, he simply said that some people looked scummy. Also, kreb said that marvs node push made him look scummy and generally made a weak semicase vs marv. It didn't feel legit and marvs reaction felt forced. I myself don't know what I'm implying but I think this interaction will become useful later. There's also some interesting info regarding the node push. Marv stated that it didn't make sense at all from a mafia perspective, yet made the push. Pretty much an attempt at clearing suspicion. Now, I'm not gonna go and start accusing everyone on the node lynch because I myself sheeped it, as town. But Afaik, VE and marv basically started the Node push, and pretty much at the same time. Initially I thought this would clear node, but it's pretty easy to not actually make it go through as mafia. So, my conclusion from this is: VE looks pretty damn scummy right now. 1) He basically claimed he got RB(and its almost factual that at least one kill didn't go through). 2) marv showed weird hostility on the association kreb didn't make. 3) he co-led the Node push with another scum at the same time -> came from qt, quite possibly. They were pretty much caught with their pants down if it was indeed scum-influenced. | ||
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Fine, marv. You are a cute and snuggly wisp of life | ||
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On October 03 2012 08:10 marvellosity wrote: Had a quick peek at the playerlist out of curiosity. Seeing syllogism lynched day 2 was a bit of a shock to my system, heh Also, lol @ the irony Poor marv | ||
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I have trouble believing this. Why on earth would anyone protect you? | ||
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Here's to never taking him seriously ever again | ||
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On October 04 2012 00:59 Coagulation wrote: lol butt hurt townie detected. You will be ok big boy walk it off. How do you know I'm townie, sir? | ||
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On October 04 2012 01:07 Coagulation wrote: Is the bandwagon because of risen dropping a massive wifom bomb before he died? Like... really? When im scum I always shoot the stupid fucker saying "IF I DIE KILL THIS TOWNIE" cause of idiot bandwagons like this. throw all that out the window cause marv starts playing scummy as fuck in response to the pressure so whatever. lololololol there there On October 03 2012 22:24 marvellosity wrote: Risen protected me and his role is that if he protects mafia he dies | ||
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On October 04 2012 01:12 Coagulation wrote: RUKIDDING? you all bent out of shape and huffing and puffing over me like your holding a most fucking unbearable indignation and personal vandeta against me for calling you scum earlier. LOL I see this shit every game. A bit defensive are we? Visceraeyes once told me that scum got all defensive when called out. That must mean you are scum. Plus, marv told me to shhhhhh that must mean that he didn't want everyone to know you are scum. Sup scum | ||
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On October 04 2012 01:14 austinmcc wrote: Because I'm town? Because they think I'm town? Because I put a bunch of work into this game N1? Because they agreed with my reads? Because their role is austinmcc-protector? Because they loved the play I wrote? I dunno, ask them. Them, please tell me why austin would come even close to being a good medic save? No, but seriously. You were being pegged as scum. Hard to think scum would choose to shoot you over someone else. Even harder to think that a medic would have saved you. The only plausible reason someone could have "saved" you were if they jailed you. Are you sure you got hit or did you just get saved? Because if you got hit, the only plausible explanation is that a vig shot you AND a jk protected you. Other than that, scum is feeling super confident and deciding to eliminate the most scummy looking players. | ||
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On October 04 2012 05:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Given that no one has claimed any of the shots on the dead players, (ie no one is claiming vig) We know we have two dead vanilla's, shots on me and austin, and risen raped himself while giving us marv. We know we have mafia, and 1 third party based on setup, so 4 kp appearing isn't that unlikely I think. My issue is not the amount of kp. My issue is there being 3 medics. The claims all indicate that there is 3 medics, and not only that, but one of them decided to actually save austin, and not only that, but someone actually decided to shoot austin. Austin. Who was under some scrutiny on day 1. Austin. Seriously? Either that or he's lying. | ||
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On October 04 2012 06:06 kushm4sta wrote: austin has made some good posts IMO look at his filter. No, he's made long posts you were too lazy to read. Regardless, he was also a lynch candidate. | ||
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I mentioned Node because I agreed with him. Actually im jk. I mention all of my scum friends and agree with them. Go write plays, it suits you better. | ||
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I think he claimed RB because he did, in fact, get RB and doesn't want an angry roleblocker on his ass. So, we got 2 vigi shots, and 2 mafia shots accounted for? mafia on BC and ... austin? and vigis on kingjames01 and annul. If that's correct, probably all shots went through and my VE got roleblocked and thus didn't kill supposition is wrong. Unless... austin is lying just so the angry roleblocker doesn't push VE or whoever else might have gotten roleblock as well? Hm... Carry on | ||
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On October 04 2012 11:32 ToutEstChaos wrote: Extremely cool, because it means you're scum. ShiaoPi is an analytical player whose ability to post cases isn't great, but he thinks a lot about the game and reads the thread extensively. Even for a normal player, though, the kind of slip-up ShiaoPi made is unusual-- it means that at the time he made this post, he hadn't extensively read the thread since the day-post, or hadn't thought about it clearly. This is not useful to town and not what ShiaoPi or anyone does. His statement: isn't unusually stupid or anything-- but it doesn't follow a pattern of logic a townie would use. When he speculates about the night kills (showing a night-oriented mindset), he thinks mafia has 3 KP. Even if this is reasonable, it's set-up speculation on D2, and it's not pushing us in the right direction. I didn't get totally on him because I wanted to see what he'd do after the FoS, and that was this: Although I give ShiaoPi credit for writing something, overall this is bad. Assuming, for example, that because mkfuba07 and marvellosity posted similar things at similar times they are scum together, is like super bad. Sure, maybe they were talking about it in their scum QT together and happened to post at the same time, but that sort of interaction in scum QTs (in my experience) typically delineates explicitly who will say what. Townies (or a townie and a scum) often say shit at the same time that means the same thing. Think about it: how many times have you been "ninjaed" in a mafia game by someone and one of you was town? The next it of ShiaoPi's case rests on the fact that mkfuba changed his mind a few times without making a huge amount of sense. He said this is "confusing town", but really, anyone who's played with mkfuba (and similarly incompetent players) know that this is in fact "confused townie". One part of ShiaoPi's case does in fact point out scummy stuff that mkfuba does: his node read is inconsistent later on, and he pushes it half-heartedly. This is fair point, and also the right point to end a case on if the other points are weak, made up crap that scum use to fluff out their post count. Granted, it's also chronologically the last point so it makes sense to go there, but the fact of the matter is, it is what it is. This line in particular jumps out at me as poor reasoning: >fuba was more or less following marv during day 1 play, This is not what scum does to other scum. Come on, you've all played scum. This wasn't a scum fuba following scum marv. Look at Marv's previous scumgames. He wouldn't let shit like that happen. This is a scared town fuba in a big game deciding to attach his lips to the ass of the strongest, biggest, most familiar vet he could find: Marv. ShiaoPi, you continue to fail to impress, and since I've called you out you've posted even less. Unless you want to be vigied at best you should respond properly to this ##FoS This seems pretty legit. I've played with shiaopi in LVII and it was a totally different ball game. He was low and quiet during most of the game and finished it with brilliant dead-on reads. I agree with our french (smurf?) friend that his line of reasoning is extremely weak and forced compared to his LVII play. | ||
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On October 04 2012 11:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Er? Its scummy thing to recheck / review? I don't do that ever unless I am town making some epic post by post analysis. I think he could easily be mafia given his interactions with people, his odd post that he just made This may just be the living up in a household with a mother who is an english major, but using the word "so" as he did seems weird to me. However throwing ones thoughts into the thread mean near jackshit when you look at the last three pages of his filter have been basically none useful. I don't see solid reasoning for reads, I see summarizing of other peoples shit, spam, and the same. I honestly believe if someone is active like he has been this game there should be real content in his filter, and honestly I am not seeing it. That's him as townie, and that's him as scum. Unfortunately it's either vig or policy lynch for him. I think he fits his town meta a bit more then his scum meta, but I could be wrong here. Would be nice if someone who's played witih him, such as kreb (I think?) could attest to this. | ||
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On October 04 2012 12:09 DarthPunk wrote: Up to Page 48. I am pretty bummed marv decided to Troll/WIFOM/Shit up the thread so badly. It makes this much more arduous a task. Sup! It's like you are back from the dead. He's playing to his wincon =/ How's mkfuba looking compared to his XXIV? | ||
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I've noted some discrepancies in mr. Sloosh's play here. Let's do this. First thing he says: On October 01 2012 06:15 slOosh wrote: This is the most upsetting start to a game I've played. So I'm gonna lay some ground rules because people are playing in a way that they shirk responsibilities with their actions / words. Biggest thing is stop saying "I wanna lynch player X what do you think?". There is no back up analysis, and it allows people to toss out names at random. You think someone is scum, back it up. Don't say "seems scummy maybe". It lets people sow seeds of suspicion and it makes mislynches more untraceable. Shady's vote makes no sense as VE pointed out. In fact the whole thing doesn't make sense, including how he has already started making connective tells on Kush based on Z-Boson. But it seems just as explainable by a combination of poor play / leftover emotions from TL-LVII. I'd wait to see what he can produce (case wise or whatnot) since arguing whether acting like a troll to incite a mod warning isn't conclusive to determining alignment. VE I don't see your issue with annul - or are you doing one of those reaction things because its leaning on the destructive side right now. He seems rather confident in this post. He wants people to be assertive about their reads. However, this later comes out as an extremely fluffy "I care about town" post, because look at his next post. On October 02 2012 12:33 slOosh wrote: Guh didn't realize how much time I actually take to read. Between Node and Shady Sands I'm leaning Shady. With a total lack of follow through after his troll antics, he has disrupted early day discussion and dropped off. Not lynching him today on the basis of a potential modkill is stupid - he could easily trade his life for hurting day 2 discussion as well and he might not even be lynched. The nature of the Node lynch is really strange. Reason enough to lean the former. ##Vote: Shady Sands I see this as extremely dull, compared to the tone he set in the introduction post. I'd rather lynch him then him, this feels weird, etc... I don't buy his explanation. This goes on to repeat itself: On October 02 2012 12:49 slOosh wrote: Node is scummy. I think what you found about his post was valid. However we can only lynch 1 at a time and I find Shady a better target for the reasons I stated. The strangeness of Node's lynch was that there was a disconnect between the push and the votes - you tossed out a bunch of names and his was just picked up. It's enough to sway me to Shady. While he gives a brief description later in the post as to why he's agreeing, this seems like a pathetic excuse to lynch Shady. "Node's lynch was strange, he is scummy, and that makes me want to lynch Shady". I can just not be seeing it, but please clarify what the hell are your reasons for voting shady. Regardless, this is also a rather weak tone. The rest of his game, however, seems consistent with his original view. I just find this slight break in it rather weird. Especially when we contrast this to him in [url = http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&user=53783]LVII[/url]. Even though he was 3rd party, he was a pretty freakin townie one. His reads were much more assertive and he didn't fret with "I feel this" or "I feel that". I've noted some differences in his play and his initial post seemed like an uncharacteristic fluff. For those of you who have played with him, how does his play so far compare? | ||
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On October 05 2012 01:39 slOosh wrote: What? How are you comparing the reasons for two different lynches as the basis of my alignment? I am finding your explanations and general thought process much lamer and weak than in the other one. I'm still wondering just how much so, but I found your reasoning for the shady lynch pretty damn weak. Just bringing this to light to see if people more familiar with your play agree. | ||
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I love you too kush | ||
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On another note, what a bad role, removes some of the elements that actually make mafia fun. Here we go again... ##Vote Hapahauli | ||
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On October 09 2012 07:33 kushm4sta wrote: Where is z boson? He has been active in his other game. He is my top scumread. You just answered your own question. I'm very busy IRL as well. On October 09 2012 07:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Tentatively ZBoson. He was quick on the Node wagon on D1 if memory serves, which was what made me start reading him in the first place...however he was also quick off it. He expressed pretty serious suspicion of myself and Coag which he has never revisited (to my knowledge - I have not done a thorough reread.) I'm going to go over some of the interactions, but yeah ZBoson is my second highest scum read. wtf? You were quicker than me on the Node wagon. What kind of grounds is that? I offed it because it felt like I was just mindlessly sheeping someone else, I had read very little on the thread and I fucking hate that kind of play. I'm also not confident in both my reads of you and Coag. I didn't revisit them because I didn't read your filters yet, because I'm busy. I will post more once I finish this nightmarish newbie game I'm in, pinky swear | ||
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On sloosh First of all, I'd like to agree with BC on the sloosh case. It begins with the first case I've wrote against him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=60#1182 I'd like to contrast two things, in addition to BC's case on him. First off all, it should be pretty clear that BC is at worst SK. This should also clear Keirathi as well. I don't think Keirathi's claim makes the slightest of sense as scum. Now, why the fuck would town want to lynch a SK BC? Makes 0 sense. Also, this kind of reasoning is not mentioned by sloosh at all. Here is one of his posts from LVII, which gave me a good impression of how strong sloosh can be when town (he was assassin, but a townie assassin at that): On September 04 2012 12:58 slOosh wrote: BC is forcing a 1-1, basically a lynch between him and Mattchew. On his side its raw gutsyness, and as people have pointed out if it's a scum strat then it ends up with a D2 lynch on him, or even a N1 vig shot; it is unlikely that he would pull this off to kill a town Mattchew as I don't think anyone can wriggle out of the subsequent backlash lynch. A 1-1 on Mattchew is stupid, especially if it could end up him (BC) lynched first, which would make it a 1 for nothing. On Mattchew's side is the self-aware miller claim. If millers were self-aware, they would out themselves, and it would strengthen his claim. If they aren't self-aware as they usually aren't, he would be safe until someone flipped nosy neighbor, in which case his lie would be exposed and he lynched. In a big game like this, potentially worth it. Unlikely that both are town as it would mean a lying townie. Unlikely that both are scum cause it's so sub-optimal. I'd lynch Matt first on the basis that BC's demeanor seems more honest than Mattchew's. I mean, some guy is screaming his head off that you are a liar, and if you know that your role PM is "Nosy Neighbour" then the other guy (BC) must be an idiot or a liar. Mattchew isn't treating him like an idiot, nor is he treating him like a liar. The response is off (I base this off my experience fake claiming in Bureaucracy Mafia). If we get ... news of something otherwise, it's easy enough to switch. But even without it behavior analysis should be enough. Dunno why you haven't thought of voting him though BC. ##Vote: Mattchew This type of reasoning would at least prompt some sort of analysis from him, such as why we should or shouldn't lynch BC or whatever. Compare this expectation to his actual post that says we should kill BC: On October 09 2012 12:57 slOosh wrote: Guh Mondays, finally over. To all concerned that I'm not playing like I usually do - you are all using meta terribly. My playstyle is reactive. I poke and prod and gather information and then bust out a case. If people are lurking and give 1 line responses I can't do my thing. Now that we finally have an open lynch tomorrow and people are actually posting you can expect my "regular" play. Excusing BC because the benefits of an SK is ridiculous - we don't know the nature of the 3rd party role, and people are forgetting that it has some higher order win condition that ends the game. BC is the best lynch for tomorrow. We have mementoss' claim, and you can see even how he reacted to the claim by discrediting him ("horribly bad townie or mafia") instead of trying to come to mutual understanding. Here he negates the aspect of his meta some people are bringing up (mainly me), but here I propose another slight change in his meta. Where is the objectiveness of his post? He's saying we should take the risk of killing a townie/3rd party BC because of some possible role he could have. It doesn't go beyond this, it seems like a pathetic attempt to get him killed. The tone from these two different posts seem extremely different. Now I have two additional comments. Firstly, it strikes me as weird how him, as scum, would openly step up and try to lynch a prominent townie such as BC. I'm not sure what to make of this, but I think this doesn't excuse how trashy his cases and his general gameplay has been this game. Also, I'm not sure whether BC is actually town or third party. If he's 3rd party I think it's safe to assume he wants to get townies lynched, so we might have a better notion of this later in the game, once we pluck out his three main reads. I think this theory makes sense, because I didn't like his cases on risk and on coag. Let me explain. Personally, from coags exchanges with me, he seems much townier. This, of course, coming from the day 2 exchange, because earlier I was angry how he was getting away with shit one-liner posts. I also, in retrospect, find it odd for a scum coag to go ahead and say "lynch this townie and the lynch this other townie once the first townie pops up scum". I don't know how good of a player he is, but I'm inclined to think he's town. Regarding risk, I don't think scum would be too comfortable saying "ah, I'm too lazy to make a nightpost" just like that. I don't like his play, but from a read keirathi gave on his meta, it seems to fit that he may be town as well. Nevertheless, I strongly disagree that BC would make a good lynch, and am heavily weary of sloosh for his play this game. EDIT: As I'm reading the thread, I figure that sloosh shows strong intent to kill a 3rd party BC. I have trouble understanding this, why is it best for town to kill a "confirmed" 3rd party?. From my small experience, this makes little sense. Regarding the VE claim Right now, I find it's legit. I find it odd that he would waste an investigation on kush, of all people, but I find it even harder to believe that someone would bother framing him. Someone also said there were no longer any miller roles (correct me if I'm wrong), so this makes it a ton more likely that kush is scum. The only other possibility is that this is a baller play from VE bussing his scum friend, but that's just... dumb. Going to check some other filters in a sec. For now, ##Vote kush4masta + Show Spoiler + Omfg I love killing kush. This is an honest non-alignment indicative feeling. I love killing kush, I love it I love it I love it. I want to create a permanent policy lynch on him, this is my dream. Thank you VE for giving us this lovely opportunity. His agony ... soothes me. | ||
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His filter begins with a fuckton of one-liners. He posts soemthing on ShiaoPi but quickly leaves it off. His first "major" post is but a crappy non-helpful list of his thoughts: On October 05 2012 10:30 iamperfection wrote: in other news i'm fairly certain that both austin and kush are town. Austin- Contributed a lot and i dont think he would be able to come with some of the cases he did as scum. I agree that marvs flip says nothing about node. Like i said before marv is crafty and nod still hasent done anything to make me think he is town. Austin just had the unfortunate circumstance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and i dont believe the node case was a distraction for anything. Kush- In all of his posts i don't get a sense he has extra information. Also his larg amount activity makes me think he is town. So who do i think is scum well for now i would say the most likely. Node- this sob has done nothing to make me think he is town. Also the orginal case brought up against him is still valid despite marvs presence. VE- somebody mentioned this earlier He said he would be exhausting and he hasn't been. I played with ve town briefly once before and i wouldn't describe his play this game as that here. In that game he dominated the discussion when he was there and was by and far the town "leader" i would say. I think the case that tails Posted earlierr on Is valid and VE has an activity tell that he cant shake. My gut tells me he would bee a good lynch. Contrast this with his filter from GSL open mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371436&user=149300&user=149300 He does the same thing there, post a shitton of one-liners, to make it seem like he's contributing, and ends up with a similar "list" of his reads: On September 30 2012 11:24 iamperfection wrote: guys i think the best way for me to prove my innocence is to simply go forward and hunt scum Austincc was right my day 1 actions were not very good. The truth is i thought i found scum and i got lazy that is the truth but its in the past and i cant change what i did. When i saw that comment that thrawn made i thought it was just like the comment that zeph made in my last game where he was sk. It was stupid of me and i got tunnel vision. Now to move forward and find scum. Sinesis and Strongandbig have both gone mia. Now it is possible, and it seems like sinensis is back now possibly?, that they had IRL reasons for drops in activity. However there is no town motivation in it what so ever I want to hear from both of them more going forward. Also I want to hear more from phagga He did a good job explaining his thought process leading up to the final moments but i am more intrested in hearing what he thought after i announce my presence. I will try to answer any questions you guys ask of me but i would rather move forward with a better day2 and try and find scum. As of right now i would say Sinesis and strongandbig are tied for my top scumread with phagga in a somewhat distant 2nd. Back to this game. The second main accusation he makes is towards hapa. I don't understand his level of confidence, given that hapa's concern was fair: On October 06 2012 08:08 iamperfection wrote: I would like to welcome to the thread two of my favorite players. @ promthelax I see no reason to not believe your claim i welcome you my fellow town bro. @hapahauli This is some weak ass shit. For someone who says the are cathing up on the entire thread i call bullshit. If you have been "catching" up to thread like you say you are you would have noticed players have been saying dumb shit like this alllllllllll game. I expect better from you hapa and this first post of yours is very concerning. The player you replaced gave me no reason to think he was town and now you come in with this. I think your scum and just wanted something to say by casting some idle suspicion while maintaining the facade of activity. What say you? He also has this weird as fuck "rageflip" theory on why Node would have left, which, to me, makes little sense: On October 08 2012 09:28 iamperfection wrote: Time for some speculation. As we know are good friend hapa is about to flip scum. Which of course means node was scum. Now we know people can have irl reasons for replacing but judging by the last post of node im more inclined to believe it was something more of a rage quit. I think this was caused by him seeing mafia members being involved with the sudden wagon that happened on day 1. I got a sense of frustration and the fact that he quit despite being in arguably a good position after the marv flip i think their may have been some infighting within the mafia that caused him to get fed up. I think their is probably another scum on the node wagon and it brings me back to ViceraEyes I stated earlier that i thought it was bad reasoning to suspect that a marv flip would mean that node isn't scum> I also think VE of all people should know this. From my observations of marvs play through games he states the truth a lot as both scum and town. Their is really no differences i can see between tone and i have seen him bus before. I think Ve used this bad reasoning to try and get the attention of his scum buddy. VE has not been exhausting like he said he was going to be. VE has not been as active as i know he can be. VE will be the person i will be pushing to lynch during the next cycle if i'm alive. also ve can you please explain what you meant with this post. I took this to mean that you were going to post before the end of the night some big post. You did not. Did i read this post wrong? I'm not too sure on him yet, I haven't read his full filter from GSL. ShiaoPi, you were with him on that game. How does his meta compare to this game? | ||
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I find it's legit. I find it odd that he would waste an investigation on kush, of all people There you go see? I think it's odd --> I raise the possibility of it existing. I then make the remark that it's just more likely that he's straight up telling the truth. I've also seen VE do crazy shit as scum, so I'm just leaving that there so people don't ignore every single case against him and go "omg omg VE is town!". I still have my suspicions, and I want to make that clear. I don't see what you gloating about Where did you ever say you wanted to lynch 3rd party over scum? Really? That's when you said "Vote BC". You'd rather him die than actually try to find another scum. Are you so doubtful on your own ability to scumhunt? | ||
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first off, kush is not playing as he was in his last scum game. He's a lot less WIFOMY and helpful in his posts. I don't know if he learned how to play properly when being attacked or not, but I see the possibility of him coming up as town. Also, VE took in that idea way too fast. Also, his tone in his last post is much different than in his last posts. This seems calm and peaceful while everything else in his filter is snark and arrogant: On October 10 2012 13:10 VisceraEyes wrote: @Kush I hadn't considered the possibility that you could be framed. None of the roles really jumps out at me as framer - maybe that's what Coroner does. I don't know. I don't care. It came up red. We'll deal with the implications of any flip other than red if we come to it. If you're town think of this as your way of helping town figure out who's scum. I'm not lying, but I concede that there's a slim chance of you flipping town. @Town I didn't want to claim, I claimed because I didn't think given my activity that I could get a lynch on Kush without it and town is fixating on this BC thing which I feel is a bad idea. No offense BC, but the question of your alignment can wait until we're out of red to kill. That's my opinion anyway. Personally I find it VERY unlikely that someone would frame kush over other people in this game. And yet, I think we have a fair possibility of kush coming up as town. This line of thinking here will have to wait until kush dies, of course, but I have a weird feeling kush might pop up as town. Both kush's meta and VE's "serene" attitude towards the possibility of him being framed are fair indicators of this. I could be wrong, of course. Let's wait some 25 hours. | ||
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On October 10 2012 13:25 slOosh wrote: Perhaps that was force of habit - all my giant cases tend to end with a call to lynch. Are you seriously trying to suggest that I was shutting down all other discussion? I don't know where you are taking this from, but no. I'm suggesting your vote on BC is fucked up, and I can't fathom why you would vote for him. I can't fathom even more why you would do this as mafia so I'm feeling a bit uneasy about you | ||
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On October 10 2012 13:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I did. Your mannerisms this game feel like you're exclusively reacting to others' attempts to scumhunt - and the way you have had this pseudo-scumread on me for however long but never really made a case or really explicitly say you want to lynch me felt like you were scared to attract my attention. It's just felt newb-scum to me, no offense intended. Also I felt obligated when my scumread (Coag) returned green to check a scumread of the dead (annul). To be fair though, it was between you and Z-Boson. I may or may not check ZBoson tonight, depending on your flip and the contributions of others between then and now. If I'm alive. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Telling you may or may not check me is a poor thing to say. Are you trying to get me framed and investigate someone else? Also, take no heed from these "suspicions" of mine. They are thoughts I'm throwing around because I'm finding kush's meta very fucking weird, compared to his past two scum games. Atm it's obviously best to take your claim as legit, want to make that very clear. | ||
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Look at his reaction when he has not two, but a fuckton of votes, compared to the last game. Totally different game. | ||
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Also, your latest point against me has the reverse effect of what you are suggesting. I doubted the existence of three medics, and guess what, there are in fact at least three medics. Also, scum don't know blue roles. I don't know what you are implying. | ||
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I find it weird how DP is making no mention of this, since he's the "kush expert" here | ||
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On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote: I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy. First off, I'm getting the feeling that he could be town. Obviously not enough to shit on VE's claim and unvote him. Also, you are tunneling him hard, but then you make no concession that he is playing differently once he got confronted. Also, you are actually taking into consideration the possibility of me milking cred from him --> so you acknowledge the possibility of him being town? Yes or no? | ||
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On October 10 2012 14:16 Coagulation wrote: meh.. zbos looks like try hard town to me Why thank you. I've even changed the color of your quotes from now on. Let us hope our new-found friendship rebuts all accusations against us, yes? | ||
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First view on kush: On October 07 2012 20:18 DarthPunk wrote: About Kush's analysis. That is beyond anything I have seen from him in terms of actual quality analysis in the 3 games of his I obs'd and the 2 I have since played with him. It is a striking difference from that play and even the play in this game. Either he is improving in his play. or he is being coached in the QT. I find both plausible at this point and certainly don;t want to lynch him for sound analysis. That being said. I do want to lynch him for All the reasons I have already brought up. What the fuck is this post right here? I don't want to lynch him for these reasons. I want to lynch him for those reasons. Why the hell is he even bringing that up? This flimsiness is characteristic of scum. Especially DarthPunk. In XXVIII when he got tunnel vision on kush, he didn't even begin to make a concession of any type. So right now, he's made clear he wants to lynch kush, despite him showing improved play (for some reason, he feels it's necessary to mention this). Afterwards: On October 09 2012 17:28 DarthPunk wrote: You Employed WIFOM against me in order to mask your scum slips and meta. By intentionally making scum slips and employing your scum meta. It is the scummiest thing that has happened in this thread. And bvy god you should have been lynched for it days ago. It even caused ToutEstChaos to change his mind and make you his number one scum read. A confirmed town thinks you were the most likely scum. You shat all over the thread. You have barely scum hunted despite a lengthy filter. You have proven that you are aware of your meta so that is now useless. You employed Wifom to mask your scumslips and scum meta. Marv defended you before he was caught. Hapa defended you before he was caught. As soon as you became toutEstchaos' number one scum read he died. The only argument in your favor comes from a suspicious player in his own right. And is comprised of pure WIFOM and speculation. I have not voted for you so now you are lying or not reading. And the case against you is far more than you 'fucking with me' which in itself is far to simplistic an explanation. Then ends with this post: On October 10 2012 08:36 DarthPunk wrote: LOL. So bad I caught you twice in a row. You are not flipping town. Obviously. Also: Now what's interesting about this is that he finds me scummy for including the possibility that kush may flip town. If he thinks kush will flip scum, for sure, as he says, why is he targeting me for considering this possibility?. One may think that he thinks I'm trying to defend my scumbuddy. But that's not what he includes here: On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote: I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy. So, Darthpunk, are you or are you not sure that he is scum? You attack me for considering that he might be townie, yet you make that same consideration yourself? Very weird. Very weird indeed. Also, his only scumhunting from the last three pages is this list: On October 07 2012 16:20 DarthPunk wrote: Also. Where the fuck are: Shiao Pi Mattchew BloodyC0bbler These are experienced players that have had almost zero thread presence since I replaced in to the game. I mean I think Kush is scummy as shit. But at least he is making a contribution and posting. Even if his posts are crap. They exist and he has thread presence. And a couple of other aggressive cases against ShiaoPi. He also reiterates the meta arguments brought up by our smurfy friend ToutEstChaos. Another useless post: On October 09 2012 11:03 DarthPunk wrote: I have to agree with Keirathi about sloosh. Even as 3rd party he contributed more than he has this game. And he even pushed a case on scum S&B. This game I barely even know he is playing. He hasn't really scum hunted and combined with switching off the node wagon back to shady he looks very suspicious. I also agree that it is strange for hapa to have pushed risk so hard if he was town. I know this is somewhat WIFOM. But I don't see the point of Immediately pushing your scum buddy after you lose marv. I feel Like VE fits into that whole group of scummy/lurking vets. BC Matt Sloosh VE etc. They can't all be scum. But out of that group I think Matt and Sloosh look the worst. Also Shiao Pi continues to lurk so I don;t know wtf is up with him. Yeah his meta has him sort of inactive. But not as badly as this game. It could be a by product of the boring past cycles. But I would be watching him. So DP has spent much of the last three pages in his filtering tunneling kush, and made some posts that seem more like he's giving off the impression he wants to scumhunt without generally doing so. He's also criticizing me for something he himself noted earlier on, but quickly changed his mind on the subject. It seems to me like he's seizing the opportunity to use kush as an excuse to not bother reading the thread. His "suspicion" on me seems fake as all hell, and I think he's scum. #Fos DarthPunk | ||
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On October 10 2012 14:55 iamperfection wrote: rofl yeah im not standing out. The guy that has been yelling that kush has been town. The guy who now has accused visceraeyes and coagulation at times of being scum and now they are likely town. The guy that said you were full of shit from your very first post. The guy that attacked hapa as soon as he got in the thread and ultimately fliped scum. the guy that said marvs flip said nothing about node. ya you know who has been flying under the radar you shaopi. The same guy that whined at the end of his last game. cried it wasn't my fault i lost it was the towns activity and yet was part of the problem. So dont come in here and accuse me for flying the radar. read the thread and come in with something for real against me if you think im fucking scum read this thread i dont want meta make a real case because i already any meta argument against me is wrong in this game so when you come in with weak crap like that it makes me think your scum. Why is coagulation likely town? | ||
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I don't get wtf is up with the overreaction though. Getting defensive? | ||
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Allright, if we take all claims so far as true, VE's judgement of iamperfection as true, and my own reads (i.e not finding risk.nuke, Sloosh (changed my mind), and kreb), that just leaves: ShiaoPi, DP, Keirathi and Mattchew. Right now I'm leaning DP and ShiaoPi as my top reads. Keir I haven't read his filter carefully yet, and Mattchew I can't formulate a read on, he's too absent from this game. I changed my mind on sloosh because I really don't think scum would be ballsy enough to openly try to push a lynch on a 3rd party BC. I could be entirely wrong here, but it's just want I think. | ||
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On October 10 2012 15:37 VisceraEyes wrote: ZBos what did you hope to accomplish with your switch to Coag D1? Not lynch node. I didn't think the wagon was justified, I felt like I was stupidly sheeping and I didn't want to switch to SS because I thought he was town. | ||
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On October 10 2012 15:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Why did you "stupidly sheep" in the first place? If it's such an aberrant playstyle to you, why did you jump onboard in the first place? tbh because I wasn't really giving this game any time at all, and automatically played passively. I was giving the other game much more attention. Now that game is over and I'm participating much more, see | ||
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Take the leap of faith that this is true :/ If I was scum it'd be stupid to join the wagon in the first place. Are you having issues with the time of when I left his wagon? I don't remember if it actually made a difference. I've also been playing a lot differently since day1, especially now, where I've actually read the entire game. | ||
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Also, I'm going to check this, because I remember some shenanigan from annul as well. It really has to be some shitty luck for me to end up being the main unvote to not lynch a confirmed scum. | ||
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Just because I was the first to unvote Node doesn't mean shit. Why the hell would I do that 40-50 minutes before the actual lynch time if my true goal was to save Node? If you wanna use that as an argument, include the other 5 (?) people who changed their vote. | ||
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It wasn't my true goal, were I scum, as that would be stupid. clear difference, no? | ||
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Let me try harder, then, since it seems like you actually care about what I have to say I did not want Node to die to this wagon. I thought it was unjustified. I decided this after I put my vote on Node and ever since I've been playing a lot differently. I also did not want to kill shady. Therefore, I changed to someone else. What I said later was: If I were scum (ok assume I'm scum) and I my unvoting was actually an attempt to save Node, why the HELL would I have done that 40-50 min prior to the lynch? I feel that this wouldn't accomplish shit, and would probably throw my ass on the line (as is what's happening). I'm arguing that it would be completely ridiculous for me, as scum, to want to save Node in such a manner. Why? Because I'd be sticking my neck out and for what? No guarantees? I'd most likely wait until actual lynch time to see if my switching of votes would make a difference. I'm add something new here. YOU are probably thinking that I unvoted because I realized that Node was actually maybe gonna get lynched for real. My post in the thread came 9 minutes after the 7/7 post on the vote thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=29#573 So for this theory to be true, I've had to instantly refresh the voting thread, quickly as hell change my mind, write a post and 9 minutes later, BAM, post that I had changed my mind. That supports the fact that I got unlucky right? Because 9 minutes to make the post I made and to make a decision of this caliber, AND assuming I read the vote tally right after it came off is a bit too much, no? Hopefully that makes my claim more believable | ||
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I'm as townie as they come man | ||
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You are using the time stamp of the taly if you think I actually knew what the vote count was. My thinking was merely this: I don't want either of these to die. Thus, I will not vote for either of these. PERIOD. I didn't have a clue what the vote count was, what my actions would result in. Frankly, with 50 min prior to the lynch, with 3 people left to vote, with ppl unvoting and voting left and right, I didn't even bother. Is this so hard to grasp? | ||
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Fine, gnight man | ||
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I feel like I did a decent job explaining myself. | ||
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On October 11 2012 10:30 DarthPunk wrote: Yeah, He seems pretty townie in the face of death. Who would you rather lynch? So now you are saying that huh? Didn't that make me scummy? | ||
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On October 11 2012 10:39 DarthPunk wrote: I am not using it to get a mislynch buddy. Like you did. are you on drugs? wtf are you talking about | ||
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and you were using that to say I'm scum: On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote: I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy. This guy is hella scum. He said I was scummy because I had a suspicion kush was town, yet did not want to lynch him. Moments later, he has a suspicion kush is town, but doesn't want to lynch him. His scumhunting is not legit. Does NO ONE find this ridiculous? ffs | ||
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On October 10 2012 14:17 Z-BosoN wrote: First off, I'm getting the feeling that he could be town. Obviously not enough to shit on VE's claim and unvote him. Also, you are tunneling him hard, but then you make no concession that he is playing differently once he got confronted. Also, you are actually taking into consideration the possibility of me milking cred from him --> so you acknowledge the possibility of him being town? Yes or no? Clear as balls. Gg no re. | ||
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On October 11 2012 10:41 DarthPunk wrote: I have misgivings on this lynch. But it is probably better play to just verify the cop claim. Like I think the optimal play is to lynch the red check. But I am not 100% on that. :/ Yet, it makes me scummy, because I'm milking town cred, but not him. Read the exchange guys. | ||
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He thinks kush might be town. He thinks we should verify the cop claim anyways. He votes on me. Yep. | ||
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How does DP make more sense than me, are you reading? Here's the chronological order. I mention that kush is behaving differently, saying there's a possibility he might be town. I still want to lynch him, though because obviously cop claim >> my suspicions. DP says this makes me scummy. I am trying to milk town cred. DarthPunk, he who has 3 pages in his filter saying that kush is scum, kush is scum, no way kush is town. Then, DP changes his mind, saying that actually kush can be town. However, he wants to verify the cop claim. Then, he says that it doesn't make HIM scummy, because his context is different or whatever. In his mind, I'm the one trying to milk town cred, while himself is actually the thinking concerned citizen. Despite saying he still wants to kill kush due to the cop claim, he OMGUS votes me. Then, he asks me this: On October 11 2012 11:10 DarthPunk wrote: Z-Boson. If you think Kush is green why is your vote still parked on him? When he himself agrees with me: On October 11 2012 10:41 DarthPunk wrote: I have misgivings on this lynch. But it is probably better play to just verify the cop claim. Like I think the optimal play is to lynch the red check. But I am not 100% on that. :/ Guys, I don't know if we live in the same world. How does he make sense, and I don't? Seriously, try this little thing called thinking, ffs | ||
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I gave my reasoning as to why I thought he could be town. I don't get your "scum motive" Don't be an OMGUSy ass hat and tell me to go read. Explain to me. Why is me considering the possibility of kush being town scummy, when I've given my reasoning to think so? | ||
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On October 11 2012 11:28 DarthPunk wrote: To be clear. Changing my mind with additional information does not make me scum. I think kush might be town. So I try to stop his lynch. Unvote. Try to get others to Unvote. You think kush is town. And you use it to lay the framework down for a mislynch on me. You don't care that he is getting lynched. All you care about is getting me lynched off the back of it. That is the clear motivational difference between us. Thank you. So why can't this: On October 11 2012 10:41 DarthPunk wrote: I have misgivings on this lynch. But it is probably better play to just verify the cop claim. Like I think the optimal play is to lynch the red check. But I am not 100% on that. :/ hold true for me? | ||
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On October 11 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Because you set the groundwork for me to be mislynched if Kush flipped green. You don;t care that someone you think is town is getting lynched but want to lynch me for not thinking he is town. And you are directly contradicting your previous explanation for unvoting node. nonono, that's what YOU did. Right, over, here: On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote: I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy. I did not set up anything. | ||
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Anyways, my vote stands on kush. While I'm finding it odd that he's been a lot more different, I don't think that weighs more than VE's cop claim on him. | ||
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I'm not trying to mislynch you off of kush. I'm trying to LYNCH you because I find you scum. See this clusterfuck I've bothered to make? On October 10 2012 14:42 Z-BosoN wrote: For contrasting purposes. First view on kush: What the fuck is this post right here? I don't want to lynch him for these reasons. I want to lynch him for those reasons. Why the hell is he even bringing that up? This flimsiness is characteristic of scum. Especially DarthPunk. In XXVIII when he got tunnel vision on kush, he didn't even begin to make a concession of any type. So right now, he's made clear he wants to lynch kush, despite him showing improved play (for some reason, he feels it's necessary to mention this). Afterwards: Then ends with this post: Also: Now what's interesting about this is that he finds me scummy for including the possibility that kush may flip town. If he thinks kush will flip scum, for sure, as he says, why is he targeting me for considering this possibility?. One may think that he thinks I'm trying to defend my scumbuddy. But that's not what he includes here: So, Darthpunk, are you or are you not sure that he is scum? You attack me for considering that he might be townie, yet you make that same consideration yourself? Very weird. Very weird indeed. Also, his only scumhunting from the last three pages is this list: And a couple of other aggressive cases against ShiaoPi. He also reiterates the meta arguments brought up by our smurfy friend ToutEstChaos. Another useless post: So DP has spent much of the last three pages in his filtering tunneling kush, and made some posts that seem more like he's giving off the impression he wants to scumhunt without generally doing so. He's also criticizing me for something he himself noted earlier on, but quickly changed his mind on the subject. It seems to me like he's seizing the opportunity to use kush as an excuse to not bother reading the thread. His "suspicion" on me seems fake as all hell, and I think he's scum. #Fos DarthPunk Yea. | ||
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On October 11 2012 11:46 kushm4sta wrote: Why hasn't zbo answered my question.. i asked so nice many times. Z-BOSON please please please: What do you think my alignment is and how certain are you? 21.4% town 78.6% scum 100% useless | ||
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I can't push a DP lynch until someone reads my case and his filter, otherwise people will just think it's OMGUS. I'd much rather push for a Mattchew/ShiaoPi lynch. But of course, I'm probably not gonna do much pushing since I'll have at least two rabid dogs tunneling me next hardcore next day. | ||
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On October 11 2012 12:12 DarthPunk wrote: So Z-B thinks Kush is scum His case against me is that I am tunnelling kush and don't think Kush is town. And he says that he is not setting me up for if Kush flips green. Despite the fact his whole case is useless if kush flips red. Burn him with fire. Can you not shut the fuck up? I think you are retard and a scum. You think I'm a retard and a scum. Let other people read and decide for themselves, you are just being anti-town here. Seriously. | ||
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Do you see any resemblance from LVII? What say you? | ||
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On October 11 2012 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote: So yeah...I'm down with ZBoson lynch. Final answer. Main reason why I'm scum. Go | ||
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marv's plan was probably to get some insane town cred for bussing Node day 1. That situation was included in mafia's plan. Do you agree that a much better play from mafia would be to straight up bus? | ||
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What would have been optimal for mafia? | ||
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On October 02 2012 11:10 annul wrote: this node push seems VERY forced, wtf On October 02 2012 11:56 annul wrote: and read node's filter this was very easy. two posts. first post defends shady and calls out kush; second post retreats from this defense slightly and continues to argue against kush. considering node's only two posts match what i have been arguing all along............. i like this guy. the big question now is what it is about these two posts that caused 8 people to drop their pants and go all in on this guy. like, i read the posts... what is there exactly that people are seeing? this doesnt make sense. 8 votes on him so i have to assume with a normal mafia count that there are at least some towns on him.... why? And here I show some reluctance. I wasn't hardcore voting him, mentioning it as a "policy lynch". On October 02 2012 12:02 Z-BosoN wrote: Personally I'm voting for him because he's made little contribution and disappeared. While I agree with his post, it just seems like he posted it to make it seem like he's contributing. Also, I can't find a good lynch target, so I'm viewing this mostly as a policy lynch. KJ still seems pretty damn scummy to me, but like BC pointed out, that's meta-consistent. (Right now in Day 1 I'm putting a lot of faith on what people are saying regarding meta. For example, I would rather lynch coag due to his shit posting, but apparently it's just the way he plays) So for me it was either keep it on KJ or change it to Node. Since KJ is posting a lot more I've decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and go for someone who has disappeared. Also, more (kinda) confirmed town expressing resistance over the node lynch: On October 02 2012 12:17 Coagulation wrote: Everyone keep your votes on shady sands. Node bandwagon looked scummy as fuck and only makes shady look even scummier. And finally my switch: On October 02 2012 12:30 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, there he is. I've decided that I will not give a shit about what people are saying regarding meta and choose whoever I think is scummiest and makes a better lynch. I'm going with coagulation because of what I've stated earlier on him. He hasn't posted anything useful so far and flows along with content-less posts. Shows no real interest in scum hunting and his association with me on shady sands is ridiculous, as if he is incapable of reading. ##Unvote ##Vote Coagulation Allright, there he is is what I said. I said earlier that I was jumping on his wagon because he seemed to feign a contribution and disappear. Later, however, he comes back and argues against the lynch. He came back, and his defense seemed reasonable. That led me into making the above post. Anyways, two things. First off, not wanting Node lynched is what scum want, but they aren't willing to throw it out in the open, so as to draw attention. annul opposed, Coag opposed, so that criterion alone is not good to define scum. Obviously, my case is a little different, because I voted and then unvoted. I immediately jumped on the wagon. So either me and my mafia buddies were planning this all along in the mafia QT, or I, as a bad townie, saw both VE and marv jump in and decided to sheep. So, in my opinion, me planning to jump in, then later, jump out if things got rough is pretty silly, don't you think? Wouldn't it be much easier to just go ahead and vote someone else? Why go through the trouble is what I'm saying. A scum will only vote for his scum friend to get town cred from a bus. What other reason is there? Another thing to ponder is: if that was my plan all along, why didn't I jump off at a much later time, when the votes were more meaningful? If I want town cred, yet don't want to lynch my scum friend, the most reasonable thing to do is just that, right? Stay in the bus and pop off if it makes a difference. What I don't understand for you to want to lynch me, is why does it make more sense for me to be scum than be a townie with a bad start? I completely changed my gameplay after that event, as I said I would. Once my other game was over, I became a lot more participative and began actually scumhunting. Both you and DP have seen my play as both scum and townie, and how I was playing in day one is not even close to any of them. That is because my claim of not having enough time is legit. So, if you want to lynch me, you are throwing everything about my play day2 and beyond in the toilet. You are lynching me mainly because of one event, which is very easily justifiable by being a townie mistake. Why do I make a better lynch, than say Mattchew, who has done absolutely nothing since the beginning of the game except tell people not to lynch shady because of dumb reasons? Personally I find this very lacking. You disagree, but I think it makes little sense from a scum mindset. My townie explanation, in my mind, is much more fitting if you take in consideration day 2 and beyond, and the fact that I expressed my insatisfaction earlier on, on my vote on him (again, when he showed up and defended himself, I found it reasonable and unvoted him, in accordance to my earlier post, which said he "disappeared"). The scum explanation makes sense, of course, but imo it makes much less sense than my townie one, and not only that, it also ignores every single thing I've changed in my gameplay since day one. That about sums it up. Think of my townie explanation, your scummy one, and see which makes more sense, based on what I've said. | ||
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What drew my attention is the amount of blue roles. We have 4 blues dead, and 3 blue claims. I don't have much experience, but 7 blues seems like a huge huge number, compared with the 4 we had in LVII. So I've been playing around with questioning claims, as to how much we can doubt each of them. The obvious claim that's full of shit is BC's, and his gameplay suggests this. It seems pretty evident that his meta is completely off. Not only that, he's lazy in reading into people and just tosses around comments. BC is almost certainly 3rd party. The main thing that shows that BC is clearly not reading the thread and/or is making superficial reads is his stance on me: On October 08 2012 08:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: zboson has put more time into this game then you have and has been quite open with his reads, pushed down early on one known mafia and has been aggressively pushing his opinions. He has quite clearly illustrated his alignment. The fact you are unable to see this is frightening given a player of your quality. Which later, very easily becomes: On October 11 2012 01:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: He is looking extremely bad at this moment in time. However I might be to much in tunnel vision but I see sloosh as red, and i see mattchew as red. Mementoss is likely as fuck there as well -_- I can't see this many people still being scum so trying to sort out which are bad town and which are scum might be annoying. I currently believe lynching him or mattchew tommorrow should be what we do as based on thread today and overall they seem most likely to net us scum. (mattchew only if he fails to provide the analysis he just promised). This clearly shows he is not giving the deserved attention to the thread. Another indicator this is how he flops out three cases, but ultimately goes for the slOosh case. He also spouts out Mementoss's name there as being scum. This, of course, after mementoss claimed. To me this raised a red flag and prompted me to read mementoss's filter and inevitably the mementoss/BC exchange. As expected, it also contained some interesting things. As pointed out by fuba, his first post was a soup of already stated facts and didn't add almost anything to the thread: On October 02 2012 08:33 Mementoss wrote: Alright lets go through the current vote candidates: Shady Sands: I put a placeholder vote on shady because he is the best lynch candidate currently being voted for in my opinion. He did his trolling thing, which can't be indicative of alignment because it was said Pre PM, however people could do this for an out as scum. His whole trolling explanation seems a bit off, but similar "plans" have been done as town before. The real problem is how he says "I am back in the thread gotta read" Then basically defends himself, and says "see kush troll and leaves" One of his votes was done in troll mode, and the other was because Zboson voted him for trolling. He hasn't given a read or posted since. However, he never actually voted in vote thread so is on schedule to be modkilled. kingjames01: I feel like a lot of the case on him was based on people saying he slipped spy. Not only is this role not in the role list, he further explained himself from evidence from another thread. The fact that so many people voting him without even checking the setup or just being ignorant to the fact makes me think he is town. He got caught up defending himself on the whole contrived bit, which was stupid, but why would scum spend so much time obviously posting about nothing to explain themselves. He called me out, and hell I would have too because I usual am much more active day 1, and wasn't at the time. kushm4sta: Originally thought he was scum, but after this post: He also admitted he doesn't give a shit about logic, which shows in almost all of his posts. Another one of those players I guess. VisceraEyes: Making cases on multiple people and all over the place. Seems like typical day 1 VE to me. Now to search for scum since shady sands most likely will be modkilled. Note a very clear contradiction in there. In the beginning of the post, he gives a petty reason as to why his vote is on shady sands. In the end of the post, however, he mentions shady sands would get modkilled. If he already thought that shady sands was gonna get modkilled, why would he even bother telling us where his vote would be? This struck me as pretty weird. Next, he says this, promising to be more active: On October 03 2012 08:51 Mementoss wrote: guys good news, I am dead in my other game so I will be putting effort into this one. But now, sleep. After this post, however, he has made posts which do not indicate effort. Hell, his first post above even seemed to display some effort. This is clear mafia mentality, displaying the urge to contribute. Now let's review his claim: On October 09 2012 04:35 Mementoss wrote: I am the Medical Examiner aka, I am the watcher, after clues got taken away my role was changed. Breadcrumb, the only breadcrumb would be I changed my quote to "mommy whats a gravedigger" cause I imagined the medical examiner digging up dead people to examine them. The other would be how I exchanged words with BC after he claimed he was shot. Okay to the more juicy stuff. Night 1: I watched BC, BC was visited by Node(Hapa) or the mafia vigilante. So he did not lie about the shot. However, he did lie about being medic protected. Why would town lie about this? I can't think of motivation. The only reason BC would lie about this would be because he wanted to make scum think there was a medic saving his ass. Actually, the only possible way BC is town is if he is veteran, I don't see why he would lie about this as town, and just say hai guys I was shot, but I was veteran so give me some protection tonight. However, I doubt Blackmamba would take out the veteran role after one of the vets already lost his life. Also, given the fact that Mafia didn't try to shoot him again makes me 95% sure BC is the 3rd Party Night Immue Serial Killer. This quote also seems like he knows a bit too much, it implies that third party has some kp since no one is claiming vig. I would 100% lynch BC tomorrow because of this lie. That brings me to my next point. Mafia knew BC was third party after night 1. Last minute ploys by dead mafia players to get the lynch on the third party to try and save members of their team or just to put WIFOM not to kill BC. We can use this now known knowledge to our advantage. Anyone who has been pushing BC hard after night 1 without much reason, or seems like they know too much, is scum. They are scum looking for some town cred for leading a lynch on anti town. This post rubbed me the wrong way. BC is scum because he lied about getting shot, yet kushm4ster has no evidence to prove BC lieing about being shot. He is using this as his only reasoning. Also Marv, hard defended this guy, almost single handedly getting a wagon off him with a meta case. I could see kushm4sta as scum. Night 2: I watched sloosh and nothing happened. I wish the night deadline was earlier so I could do this last minute and get one last watch. But hopefully this will prove to be useful. Since I was shit all game and I'm sorry lol. But yeah look back after night 1/2 and see people that seemed to have a switch of thoughts on BC or knew too much. Because scum knew BC was 3rd party pretty early. I wish I could be more helpful but I haven't been doing enough reading into the game. I would say lynch BC > lynch kushm4ster TLDR; BloodyC0bbler kushm4stap The first weird thing about this claim is that it makes no sense. The only thing he got from his claim was "oh lookie, BC is an SK". I don't know if everyone else feels this way, but this really does not help town very much. At the time, mementoss was hardly under threat of death, and now he puts himself as such. Another weird part from this claim is bolded above. I really don't follow this line of reasoning. He is calling kush scum because he wanted to lynch BC? He implies that mafia has extra information that town doesn't have. Except that mafia has exactly the same information that town has. BC claimed he was shot, that's about it. Mafia don't know if they shot into an SK, if they shot into a medic save, or if they shot into a lucky citizen. I don't understand why mementoss is implying that mafia has extra information here... Later on, aside from the BC/Memetnoss exchange, Mementoss has done absolutely nothing. What is the thinking of a claimed blue? Obviously he should be completely scared he is going to die. We would expect at least some sort of reads or any good-bye posts or whatever. All he graces us with is - nothing. He merely conveniently gets role-blocked, and that's about it. Another thing to note is BC's knowledge of the role watcher. He takes it as true and is insistent on the fact that they can see when people leave to do night actions. If that is the case, and under the most probable assumption that BC is 3rd party, then mementoss should have seen BC come out, and mentioned it. All he saw, however, was a dead scum visiting BC and thats about it. tl;dr -- If we remove his so-called claim, mementoss's filter looks extremely scummy. It shows a passive, non-scumhunting filter. Has promises of effort, and shows none later on. His first post is extremely weird, as stated above, his claim has some holes, his "whoever has gone after BC is scum" technique makes little sense. His claim also has many reasons to be fake, and this goes in accordance with the extremely high amount of blue claims this game. BC being SK and Mementoss fake-claiming makes a lot more sense, if we take the setup into consideration and a lot of the other reasons above.
I'm hoping the night kills will give us more info. I'm still getting weird vibes from VE's own claim, but I'll read more into that tomorrow. | ||
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Having died day one, let's look at some of his earlier posts: On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote: I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why? My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much". I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out. If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now.. ##Vote: Mr.Zentor Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days. Here he shows a much more incisive aggressiveness. Is decisive and already hopes to pin down who is scum. Much unlike his first post this game. Next post: On September 01 2012 05:31 Mementoss wrote: I noticed a couple of things, after a couple people tried to make a wagon on me. I would like to point out people have been saying BMB has been called scummy for 6 pages and he got 1 maybe 2 votes. I got called scummy 1 page ago and got 3 votes already. Doesn't that seem just too easy? Here's some things I noticed about the wagon on me: + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 04:41 mkfuba07 wrote: Thanks for the kenpach rule info Hopeless. I used google because I didn't know it was a TL thing. I'll check TL first next time. HiroPro's case was convincing. Momentoss seems to be casting a wide net of suspicion without committing to anything. Even his Mr.Zentor vote is just "for now..." He seems indifferent as to who gets lynched. I haven't felt like Hapa has been defending Mr.Z at all, but has instead been trying to figure out why Momentoss is voting him instead of any of the other candidates he's mentioned, or even any of the other lurkers. Momentoss then builds this "hard defense" into an associative case where neither of the players involved has flipped (naturally). These claims can be made of anyone who has responded to anything another player has said, and cannot be proven or disproven without a lynch on one of the two involved. In fact, I was lightly involved in the "buddy buddying" around in the beginning, and am now "hard defending" Mr.Z by his logic. Am I next on the scumlist? This line of reasoning may seem like scumhunting but there's nothing to base a read on. ##Vote Momentoss Something that bugs me about this post is how he said HiroPro's case was convincing. HiroPro's case is really just everything Hapa said/ asked me. But put into one post. + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 03:15 HiroPro wrote: Ok, I think we should lynch mementoss. I'm heading out for lunch and I'll be back in half an hour. At first glance, this seems like a solid contribution. Mementoss talks about most of the major things that have happened in this thread. However, look at what Mementoss is actually saying: he spends an inordinate amount of time talking about what ghost should and should not do only to ask ghost a rather basic question and then proceeds to talk about how certain hypothetical thought processes make him think BlackMamba is scum even though he said he wasn't going to talk much about Mamba and wanted to hear more from him... The rest of his post just summarizes general feelings that are going on in the thread. In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy). Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum. ##Vote Mementoss "The rest of his post just summarizes general feelings that are going on in the thread." - And this makes me scum how. I feel like HiroPro took everything Hala noticed and put it into a case to make a contribution. He basically just regurgitated everything I said and told you what I said. He didn't say how or why it made me scum at all. "In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment." - How would you have a clear view of anyones alignment on day 1? Do you know something I don't? You have never voted someone to get a contribution out of them? "Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum." - I found this funny, since Hiro's entire case said nothing other than spitting out my post in new words. He never said Why or how things make me scummy. Then MKFuba goes on to state I don't care who gets lynched, I tried to give my opinions and generate discussion between a couple of players. Generating discussion allows people to find scum. Has he even read the game? He's voting me because I seem indifferent for who is going to be lynched? What about the guy right in front of you eyes: ShadySands FoS on Hapa, no follow up or mention ever again So, what. Shady either didn't put in no attempt to read this post or he can't read. I think it was pretty clear what I was saying. He's shadowing Hala at this point in the thread, a person who he early read as scum. And doesn't ask what he wants to know about this. Well this was one of the main points of the case on me, that I said I thought BMB had scummy actions, but I would wait for more of a response before I had a final verdict. I got called scum for doing this and voting for Mr.Z to get any discussion from him at all. Seems nervous to commit to a vote. First the FoS on Hala rather than a vote and now this? Why so careful? Why so nervous about committing to a vote if you have a scum read on me? Wait isn't this also what the case on me said. Voting someone to get discussion out of someone? So Shady is being very hypocritical calling me scum for things he is doing as well. He doesn't even know BMB's filter, its only been 12 pages for the whole game, and BMB has been the main discussion for the whole time. He doesn't know about the main day 1 discussion? Does he care? He asks me for a response, but never specifies what this response is. He also says he will wagon on Zentor. Wow. So he has a scum read on me, but hes willing to vote on Node or Zentor, and has BMB in his mind. Wow Shady is sure keeping his options open.. So MKfuba you better have a better reason for voting me, other than I seem indifferent for who gets lynched, when you have Slim Shady over here voting anyone who is the popular choice at the time. So everyone who voted me, why don't you explain why you think I'm scum, rather than just regergitate what I posted and tell people what you think it meant? How is what I posted scum motivated etc? His tone is also completely different. Bothers explaining his opinions, and generally looks like he is scumhunting. Before his untimely demise, he's been playing a totally different ball game with his scumhunting. Much MUCH more than he's expressed here. One could argue that this is because he has a blue role or whatever, but even after his claim, where he should genuinely scumhunt, he does not. His gameplay is very VERY contrasting to the townie play he has made in death note mafia. | ||
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On October 11 2012 13:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean...no. I don't think that would have been optimal. It's D1 and mislynches happen. To bus in that situation would have been retarded imo. That's why I wanted to lynch Node - because there was resistence to the wagon in the form of people sticking on Shady. That's why I'm hung up on the Node switch - because Node COULD have been lynched - but people were all like "wtf dat wagon" when it's like...why dude? WHY?!? I call bullshit right there. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=25#499 You typed in ##vote node one minute after marv gave the first vote, being the second one to vote node. You wanted to lynch him waaay before there was any sort of information on the wagon. That's definitely not why you wanted to lynch node. | ||
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Let us see what the night has to offer. I strongly, strongly think either yours or VEs claim is null. Once I have more time Ill go through his filter. | ||
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We should lynch whoever we find to be scum. While VEs claim is fishy as hell I think hed make a bad lynch for tomorrow. From reading the filters yesterday, I'd feel strongest towards a mattchew/shiaopi lynch. After settling down I've decided DP is more likely butthurt townie rather than his flamy scum. Sloosh, like I said, is playing quite differently this game, but I'm uneasy with his alignment. BC is sk and. Iamperfection and risk.nuke I have slight town reads on. Kreb is pretty damn townie. Keirathi is being extremely useless this game, is yet to make any contribution. The scum read I have on mattchew is more related to his "don't lynch shady for dumb reasons" post, and shiaopi more because of the meta reads spotted earlier. These are just my current thoughts on the game for now. Who would you lynch, mementoss? | ||
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VE claims he got Coag checked, and came back as townie on night 2. So I checked some dates, and look at this: The day 3 post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=72#1429 October 6. So supposedly he received that Coag is townie. Now, if he got the memo that Coag is town, then wtf is this shit: On October 07 2012 03:34 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd like to begin by stating, for the record, that I'm well aware that I've been less active than normal. For obvious reasons the lynches have been pretty set in stone - but on top of that the steering just went out on my car and I'm looking for a new one. I've been watching the thread though and I'm ready to put this down. Coagulation My main issue with coag's play hasn't been his inactivity. It's the fact that when asked for his scumreads, he invariably chooses people for reasons he himself is guilty of. Most recently he threw out myself and BC as scumreads, citing activity. Also I think this is a scumslip. Discuss. On October 07 2012 03:36 VisceraEyes wrote: :/ That wasn't a discussion. And I really meant from non-coag peoples. On October 07 2012 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Because scum aren't capable of feigning indignation. As if that's not like, the easiest thing to fake in the world. On October 07 2012 03:54 VisceraEyes wrote: What's YOUR fucking point? That's my point. Why did Z-Bos' indignation just immediately mean that he's a butthurt townie? Why could he not be OMGUSing scum? Why can't he be insidious third party? JUST ADMIT IT YOU'RE SCUM AREN'T YOU?! So I've figured both claims are bullshit now. VE's, however, seems even worse now. Unless I'm getting something real wrong here, he is effectively going after Coag as a cop who received a town check. The quotes above make it look legitimately like he's going after Coag, and not spouting discussion or whatever he might say. Discuss. | ||
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On October 12 2012 08:35 Mementoss wrote: and by figured both claims are bullshit do you mean the other one to be BC's claim to be vet No, I still find yours to be weird as fuck. BC is almost 100% guaranteed to be crap. I think not my good sir. On October 10 2012 13:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I did. Your mannerisms this game feel like you're exclusively reacting to others' attempts to scumhunt - and the way you have had this pseudo-scumread on me for however long but never really made a case or really explicitly say you want to lynch me felt like you were scared to attract my attention. It's just felt newb-scum to me, no offense intended. Also I felt obligated when my scumread (Coag) returned green to check a scumread of the dead (annul). To be fair though, it was between you and Z-Boson. I may or may not check ZBoson tonight, depending on your flip and the contributions of others between then and now. If I'm alive. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? This was much much later when the expiration date of your "trap" had come about. Let's pretend that by "never", you actually meant "after I received the green check on him". If that's the case, you are saying that you had a scum-read on Coag. Then you received a green check on him. Then you decided to make a shit case on him to see if people were gonna jump, and thus catch your scum?? Because, as your experience tells you, scums love hopping onto bad cases? | ||
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You also use similar 'techniques' here: On October 11 2012 01:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Mementoss What I don't understand is why you didn't explain this earlier, especially when I questioned why someone would investigate kush. I think this would be rather important to explain your motivations, right? You also didn't answer this: On October 11 2012 18:36 Z-BosoN wrote: Wait, what??? I call bullshit right there. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=25#499 You typed in ##vote node one minute after marv gave the first vote, being the second one to vote node. You wanted to lynch him waaay before there was any sort of information on the wagon. That's definitely not why you wanted to lynch node. + Show Spoiler + I'm calling so much bullshit this game. Need to augment my vocabulary | ||
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On October 12 2012 09:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I wanted to lynch Node for being non-contributory D1 and parking his vote. When I said "that's why I wanted to lynch Node" that should have read "that's why I STILL wanted to lynch Node in spite of the resistance". I was talking about the resistance to the Node lynch that I couldn't understand. And why didn't you say this earlier? | ||
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On October 12 2012 09:53 VisceraEyes wrote: But you know...feel free to keep picking apart every little thing I say. -.- Honestly it's fine, but I figured even the worst of us (not saying it's you ZBos) would be able to read between the lines when I say certain things. I'll remember in the future that I should make zero assumptions about the median skill-level of the playerbase. Lord knows that if Kush was a townie, I had that lesson coming. What the hell, you say things that are clearly untrue, should I just ignore them? What I do is ask you about them and see if your explanation makes sense. I'm not going WTF YOU ARE SCUM and using every little detail against you. You yourself realized you don't look so good, and I'm trying to figure out whether you are lying scum or just caught in a bad situation (much like myself). So far they seem reasonable, so I still don't think you'd make a good lynch. What I'm also missing from reading your filter is your actual scumhunting. You are gauging a lot of reactions and sifting through a lot of cases, but aside from you wanting to lynch me, I can't find anything conclusive. Excluding myself, who would you lynch as of right now? Do you buy Mementoss's claim? | ||
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On October 12 2012 10:03 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not sure - as I said before I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the whole Mementoss/BC thing. I don't get either of their reactions. Besides you, I'd like to lynch Mattchew for sure. Dude is doing less than Coag, which is pretty fucking bad. Well try harder man, I think this is important. I spend a ton of time trying to figure this out and all I get is risk.nuke's "yea mementoss is scummy" and a "lol ZBosoN is funny". Atm I'm considering the possibility that both yours and mementoss's claim may be true. Because, your role obviously is unreliable, and there may be others in the same category. That would make sense, balance-wise, of having like at least 6 blues. This is helpful because if I can assume that all claims are true, my list of scum candidates goes down a LOT. I'm also missing some Keirathi, ShiaoPi, Mattchew in here... | ||
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Anyways, I'm up to my balls with this Node thing. If you read my quotes in this defense you can see that I was already feeling unsatisfied with my vote on Node. My unvoting comes right after Node's defense post, which makes me choose where I'm going. Refer here: On October 11 2012 14:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Ok. Annul, a confirmed townie, had this to say: And here I show some reluctance. I wasn't hardcore voting him, mentioning it as a "policy lynch". Also, more (kinda) confirmed town expressing resistance over the node lynch: And finally my switch: Allright, there he is is what I said. I said earlier that I was jumping on his wagon because he seemed to feign a contribution and disappear. Later, however, he comes back and argues against the lynch. He came back, and his defense seemed reasonable. That led me into making the above post. Anyways, two things. First off, not wanting Node lynched is what scum want, but they aren't willing to throw it out in the open, so as to draw attention. annul opposed, Coag opposed, so that criterion alone is not good to define scum. Obviously, my case is a little different, because I voted and then unvoted. I immediately jumped on the wagon. So either me and my mafia buddies were planning this all along in the mafia QT, or I, as a bad townie, saw both VE and marv jump in and decided to sheep. So, in my opinion, me planning to jump in, then later, jump out if things got rough is pretty silly, don't you think? Wouldn't it be much easier to just go ahead and vote someone else? Why go through the trouble is what I'm saying. A scum will only vote for his scum friend to get town cred from a bus. What other reason is there? Another thing to ponder is: if that was my plan all along, why didn't I jump off at a much later time, when the votes were more meaningful? If I want town cred, yet don't want to lynch my scum friend, the most reasonable thing to do is just that, right? Stay in the bus and pop off if it makes a difference. What I don't understand for you to want to lynch me, is why does it make more sense for me to be scum than be a townie with a bad start? I completely changed my gameplay after that event, as I said I would. Once my other game was over, I became a lot more participative and began actually scumhunting. Both you and DP have seen my play as both scum and townie, and how I was playing in day one is not even close to any of them. That is because my claim of not having enough time is legit. So, if you want to lynch me, you are throwing everything about my play day2 and beyond in the toilet. You are lynching me mainly because of one event, which is very easily justifiable by being a townie mistake. Why do I make a better lynch, than say Mattchew, who has done absolutely nothing since the beginning of the game except tell people not to lynch shady because of dumb reasons? Personally I find this very lacking. You disagree, but I think it makes little sense from a scum mindset. My townie explanation, in my mind, is much more fitting if you take in consideration day 2 and beyond, and the fact that I expressed my insatisfaction earlier on, on my vote on him (again, when he showed up and defended himself, I found it reasonable and unvoted him, in accordance to my earlier post, which said he "disappeared"). The scum explanation makes sense, of course, but imo it makes much less sense than my townie one, and not only that, it also ignores every single thing I've changed in my gameplay since day one. That about sums it up. Think of my townie explanation, your scummy one, and see which makes more sense, based on what I've said. I'm not gonna bother with this anymore. I think this is a really shitty reason to lynch me, and if you wanna feel proud that in my 7 page filter this sole thing that has a perfectly reasonable townie explanation seals the deal to me being scum, then fine, great job on your scumhunting skills, pat yourselves on the back once I flip town. It's also ironic how you basically summed it up here how I'm feeling: On October 12 2012 09:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Guys I understand that I look bad. But unless you think I'm scum, lynching me is a poor idea. I'm active, I give a shit and I'm going to be here looking for scum. You're talking about lynching me when there are people who don't give a fuck about this game just coming in here and voting the flavor of the cycle. Subtracting the fact that my flip will tell you nothing about anything (I'd be interested to hear what you think my flip will tell you Coag), it's just a bad idea in general. Don't do it guys. Won't bother with this anymore. | ||
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Scum don't like saying risky shit such as that. That remark is like 99% confused and paranoid townie. | ||
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If we are going to lynch someone for inactivity alone, perhaps keir or shiaopi are better choices. I'd rather lynch Mattchew for a couple of reasons. First off, one of the first posts he makes is completely weird, regarding shady. When I felt the need to proclaim Shady as town, I merely said that he was sticking to his town meta, because I've already played with him in a few games. However, Mattchew hasn't (and neither did Node, who also defended him, on that remark) yet feels compelled to defend him: On October 02 2012 01:07 Mattchew wrote: Shady said before the game, before he knew his alignment, that he was going to troll. I have yet to see a shady case about his posting after his "trollfest" (if there is I missed it). If we lynch someone for doing something so non-alignment telling we are bad and we should feel bad. If you are voting Shady I want your reasons for the vote beyond "he was trolling and thats anti-town herp derp" STOP VOTING SHADY SANDS WITH SHIT REASONING I was thinking that we should lynch Coag because he hasn't put in any effort after getting mad at Caller about his game. He got mad at Caller for not allowing him to play in a game and then joins this one and parks a vote on Shady with shitty ass reasoning. The thing holding me back on this is that this might actually be how Coag plays, and I dont think I have played with him in a real game that I remember. Austinmc hasn't contributed jack shit, which is very different from his usual productive town self Kingjames was extremely awkwardly wishy-washy with his attempt to call out keirathi. He talks about focusing on scum hunting but has spent almost all his time trying to defend and focusing on himself. His first post also reeks of scum trying to look tryhard townie. I want to a lot more from BC, his lack of contributions make me very nervous about him. ##vote kingjames01 I felt comfortable declaring shady town because I know his townie/scum meta pretty well (I even did the same thing in newbie XXVIII), however, I wouldn't have come even close to feeling that way if I didn't have a meta read on him. This strikes me as very weird. The rest of this post is completely random crap. His next major post is like, textbook definition of scum trying to participate: On October 03 2012 07:05 Mattchew wrote: I wasn't around for when the lynch went down. Sloosh should still be lynched, do you disagree with my assessment of it or just my lack of pushing it? I didn't think that shady did anything (other than come back last minute to the thread) that warranted him being lynched, but because of so many people getting away with little to no information about why their vote was on him or node, I struggle to find the difference there between bad town and scum. Forgot to unvote, woulda ended up not voting (which is basically what I did). Honestly I just had a really bad day 1 and was not able to really get a strong read on anyone through just overall reading, and then when I looked at sloosh I was away for when I should have been pushing him. Anyway lets chat about sloosh, BC and annul. These are the players that feel weird. Sloosh seems to be struggling to post, and seems like he is struggling to type out his thoughts. I think this is because he is scum. I was easy to make a case on because I played like shit day 1. He skews the truth in his case about me when he mentions my stop voting shady sands point. I was clearly saying this to the people that at that moment were voting shady which there were still a lot of at that time (in this thread and +2 to the voting thread). I was also not saying what alignment Shady was, I was just saying that at that time votes on him were stupid. BC reminds me a lot of foolish playing in Bureaucracy. He knows that a lot is expected of him which makes it really really hard for him to post a lot. He is focusing in on people here and there while not actively driving discussion and calling out bad play. His posting looks really weak for a normally very confident player, and the % of fluff/bs to actual content in his filter is not up to his town-standards Annul, his 5 page filter has nothing of actual value in terms of reasoning, scum-hunting, or explaining his thought process. He also was extremely active in the hours leading up the lynch and ended up pushing no candidate. Here is annul's last scum game filter, I feel it reads very very similar to his filter this game (link plz click) Completely random stuff. Draws no conclusions and looks like its just there to feign some sort of participation. The rest of his filter is pathetic. I think him more of a liability when going into late game, and his two major posts are extremely scummy. Right now I think he is our safest bet for d4. | ||
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On October 12 2012 17:33 Kreb wrote: And Im totally not feeling like voting DP if the whole case is built around him saying "both KP". Thats a very weak case and theres probably plenty of similar could-be-scumslips all over the thread. If someone can find something useful on him which can be added to such a slip, sure. But lynching DP on that flip alone? Hell no. Are you not reading the thread man? Read my case / my exchange with him. | ||
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Would have been interesting if both mementoss and VE checked me. That way they'd both be confirmed the same alignment. VE's "omg omg I'ma keep it a secret" is another scumhunting tactic, I presume? For this cycle I'm gonna go with the non-paranoid mindset and assume both VE and Mementoss townie. Can someone please be explain to me this KP mechanic? You sacrifice 1-2 KP so that someone's flip changes, is that right? Why is that so costly? The only advantage I can think of is that town thinks the scumteam is bigger then it actually is... Are there any other KP saving mechanics you guys are aware of? Kush's meta seemed like he was indeed town, which made me think that, but that could have been fabricated if he was scum with the knowledge that he would pop town. I am inclined to think the alternative: The other possibility is one guy shooting BC thinking he was vet, and that we have a roleblocker we are not aware of. If we have a town roleblocker (which I think is the case. If scum had a roleblocker, they would use it most likely, and no one has yet claimed roleblock. We know there is a roleblocker because VE was roleblocked) then please claim and tell us who you blocked, that guy is most certainly scum. I take back what I said about DP being butthurt townie, he's looking pretty scummy. Will have to read more on him to see if he's really scum or no. Keirathi night post was very weird. He doesn't do shit most of all game long, doesn't participate in some of the discussion in where he was clearly present, and suddenly he feels compelled to spout out his reads as if scum would actually kill him, when he could have done so in multiple other times? | ||
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On October 13 2012 03:34 slOosh wrote: It's setup speculation, and no one really knows because affecting flips like this is really rare. Like the controversial Death Millers from LIII, but reverse. The idea is that scum "spend their KP" for other effects, in this case to make kush flip town. Wanna flesh out the reads you have? I've already gone through a lot of my reads, but I'll give some of my recent thoughts this game. First thing is, I don't think a KP shenanigan occured. Why? kushm4sta has been looking like his town meta all game long. I've seen two other games of his, and imo it's pretty clear when he is town and he is not. I'm not as confident of reading him as I am on shady, but I don't think that his alignment was changed or whatever. Your recent comment on how rare it is for such a thing to exist supports this. So what concerns me regarding this no-kill thing is the roleblock. We know there is a roleblocker, that is for sure. Now what has happened? Two supposedly claimed blues (VE and Mementoss) were neither shot nor roleblocked. This right now is screaming WTF at me. Either both of them are scum, or mafia are keeping them alive so we mislynch them out of fear or something of the like. The fact that neither of them got roleblocked, however, is unsettling. That makes me think that either: a) We have a town roleblocker, that blocked someone sending in the kills and that accounts for one NK. b) Mafia decided to forgo the roleblock on supposedly confirmed blues and not use it at all. Something is way off here. I think a) is much more likely. I can't see mafia choosing to let confirmed blues do their bidding on the premise that we will mislynch them. Since right now I'm taking the stance that both VE and mementoss are legit, then it's much more likely that a town rber exists (despite us having so many blues). If you are town roleblocker, confirm and we will have our next scum .If no one claims anything related to roleblock, then the roleblocker is scum, and they chose to not roleblock anyone, for some reason. I will go over why I think this information is important later on. Mattchew/DarthPunk Right now I'm supportive of a Mattchew lynch, as I've mentioned in my case against him. Shiaopi coming out of the blue to attack DP doesn't strike me as scummy at all. He has played in LVII and spent extensive moments trading flame wars with DP. DP/Shiaopi interchange. I originally thought him scummy, made a case on him, and he went OMGUSE against me hardcore. Had some moments where I thought he was town due to his exchange with me, but after some more reading, I've changed my mind yet again. I am now also supportive of a DP lynch use. Observe, from his filter from LVII, some of the same elements from his metagame he's using here: On LVII - if you think someone is X, why don't you do Y?: On September 19 2012 21:59 DarthPunk wrote: Seriously you are convinced I am red yet you won't lynch me. WTF?!??! On this game : On October 11 2012 11:10 DarthPunk wrote: Z-Boson. If you think Kush is green why is your vote still parked on him? (obs: + Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 10:41 DarthPunk wrote: I have misgivings on this lynch. But it is probably better play to just verify the cop claim. Like I think the optimal play is to lynch the red check. But I am not 100% on that. :/ On LVII - Uses the fact that he is being "mislynched": On September 22 2012 17:44 DarthPunk wrote: Really??? Sigh. this is SO incredibly frustrating. At least I know how it feels to be mislynched now. On this game - he's also treating himself as a mislynch, and quite extensively at that. (after I had only made an FoS off him. Extremely defensive about it.): + Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: So you are not trying to mislynch me off the back of kush? Except the majority of your case is about me tunnelling kush and not thinking he is townie. Cool story. The rest is just shit. On October 12 2012 09:34 DarthPunk wrote: I believe that VE is a cop of some description. Claiming to trade one for one with Kush of all people is just silly. Especially after Scum lost Marv and Hapa consecutively. What you are suggesting is that after scum lost two members the rest of them decide that VisceraEyes known to be a good scum player should fake claim cop with a green check on kush. I find that scenario INCREDIBLY unlikely. Sanity is certainly in question. AS is the possibility of a framer or something similar. But we should not be lynching VE right now. I find it very interesting that Z - Boson has dropped his pressure of me. Despite what he 'foresaw' (despite thinking it was highly unlikely) in his case coming true. I want to lynch Z - Boson. He clearly tried to entrap me with a green kush flip and his case relied upon this. Despite his vote for kush and stating kush was 75% red. He also stopped the lynch of scum day one by throwing away his vote. Even though he says he wasnted neither to get lynched. What he was actually doing, and every thinking rational individual would know this, was lynching shady and saving scum. His 'I thought neither was scum so voted for neither' Is silly as it was clear that his actions would cause a shady lynch. And save node. What he actually did with his vote was: I prefer shady to be lynched rather than node. That is Scummy. Combine it with trying to entrap me with clear foreknowledge of kush's flip Despite calling him red and voting for him. he expressed doubt over kush;s alignment. And instead of attempting to lynch someone else like the others who doubted the claim. He used his doubt to set up a further mislynch Z- Boson is scum and must be lynched. On October 11 2012 10:45 DarthPunk wrote: You didn't say oh kush is townie lets not lynch him. You said why doesn't DP think kush is townie. He is suspicious for that. All the while still voting kush and setting up a mislynch on me if kush flipped green. That is the key difference in motivation between being genuinely worried about kush's lynch. And having an ulterior motive which it was incredibly transparent you had. On October 11 2012 10:50 DarthPunk wrote: You were very clear in voting Kush then immediately calling me suspicious for not thinking he was town and putting in the groundwork for my lynch if Kush flipped green. This second tendency, I want to highlight even more. The context is: he's displaying utter confidence that kush is scum. So much, in fact, that he (ironically) tries to say I'm scummy for "milking town cred off of kush": On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote: I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy. And one more thing: discreditation. Since on LVII Shiaopi was confirmed town, all he could manage doing was going with stuff like "your case is shit", "you don't read", "you are so bad" , etc. He's pretty much doing that with an OMGUS of me and some of his other remarks. example: So yea, in light of his recent play after the night, I'm again inclined to think he's scum, after comparing his play with that of LVII. All of the above, of course, in addition to my previous case on him. Other fluff I'm not too sure on iamperfection yet. I'm inclined to think he is townie. Risk seems pretty townie as well. The meta point on sloosh and shiaopi still stand. I think mattchew/dp make for better lynches today, however. I remember I had a very strong town read on kreb. I've noticed some pressure on him today, and will go over his filter and see what I make of it. | ||
Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote: First: Welcome Thrawn! =) Ok, onto business. What bothers me is that by the time I went to sleep there was a minor Austin wagon starting. It didnt take off at all. Then some time later Node comes in as a target and BOOM there plenty of votes going his way. Lets take a look at the posts which started these wagons: I guess this would be the first post about austin, and it sums up the case on him pretty well: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: -_- if you read the OP you would clearly see above the roles that all in the game are included but details of them are not known. If their was a role with the name of spy everyone would know about it just not what it does. You jumping on him for something that is obviously not a role and wanting to lynch screams to me "i found a powerrole, lets lynch it" You have a horrible reason for jumping on KJ and it screams desperate for a reason to lynch him. Then theres the Node case: + Show Spoiler + Node Node is super duper scummy. Again, for emphasis On October 02 2012 09:00 austinmcc wrote: Node responds Another interesting mention of Shady: These feel like incredibly bad reasons for a townread. I don't see how NoT coNtINUinG TYpINg LIKe tHIs and throwing a bunch of obscenities around is townie. I don't see Shady pushing other targets. To be fair, this was before he disappeared from the thread again. I don't like at all how he left completely once he wasn't in the lead for the lynch. Now that he's back in front don't be surprised to see him spring out of nowhere. However, I'd still rather see kush dead, overall. My thoughts have NOTHING to do with when Shady disappeared from thread. I call Node out for finding Shady town for (1) stopping trolling quickly (nothing to do with his absence later) and (2) saying he started to push other targets (which he didn't, before his absence).Doesnt it strike anyone as a bit odd how Node could gain so much momentum and not austin? I'll admit that the case on austin isnt the most extensive, but I certainly think its better than the Node case. Especially considering austin is the one initiating the Node wagon. After that follows a bunch of people saying "yea I like this" and it gets going incredibly quickly. Lets look at the case on Node itself: The case is built by the fact that, according to austin, Node calls Shady town for weak reasons. Yet he doesnt say anywhere in his post he calls him towny, he calls Shady "not scummy", not "towny". Also the case is largely built on the fact that Shady would be scum (I agree Node would look suspicious in that case, but now we know better at least). But if the case is built on that we should be pushing Shady, get his flip and then push Node afterwards when we know Shadys alignment. So we have a pretty big wagon starting for what I would call an extremely weak case. The timing of the case is also a bit telling with it starting soon after the austin wagon. There would be clear scum motives to start a rivalling wagon to austin if austin is scum. Also, note how this also effectively killed the austin wagon. Only two persons I could find actually posted a reason to not jump on that wagon, VE: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today. I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin. And Shiao: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 08:57 ShiaoPi wrote: On austin I am kind of split, but I would prefer to not lynch him today because he is quite an asset to town (if he is town aligned of course). While his absence and stuff had been worrying I would suggest waiting for day 2 on him. Sharrant and KJ also expresses approval on the austin-case (page 22) but it gets kinda drowned in what follows. But still, even with three voters and another two approving of it, it doesnt get half the momentum the Node wagon does! Ok, onto some conclusions on what I get from this. - I dont think Node is scum. The case is weak and the wagon strange. - I still think austin is scum and that mafia successfully managed to diverge town attention from austin to Node (while keeping Shady as a backup which they obviously were fine with). People I think come off as scummy because of this: - VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today. I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin. Abandons austin with no good reason. He says he already has a reason ready after having read his filter, but somehow the two walls of text makes expressing those reasons unnecessary. He still hasnt yet expressed why he left austin. This seems very convenient. Ending it with a clear statement that "We're not lynching him today" also sounds weird. Even if VE is town and honestly believe austin isnt scum, why would he feel the need to add a strong statement like that? Why wouldnt he encourage further discussion on the austin-topic even though he doesnt plan to vote for him? - Marvellosity + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 10:58 marvellosity wrote: I have very similar thoughts to this indeed. There are still some of us around and votes are split. Let's see if we can push Node? As with you I prefer him to Shady and Shady to then anyone else. Less scummy than VE, could just be a case of trusting VE a bit too much. Also it seems a bit unlikely scum would line up three of their players to have one post a case (austin), and then two immediately following it (VE and marv). It would be a bit too obvious. However, this post: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 11:04 marvellosity wrote: let's do this ##vote: node Kinda strengthens the suspicions again. So Im not really sure where to put marv right now. Less scummy: Kush, Boson, imperfection, BroodKing. Since they are all joining the wagon without any real motivation. At this point the wagon is rolling and people are switching, but I will definitely keep my eye on these four. Overall I must say its remarkable how how people switch so fast to Node because of what I would call a very weak case made by a person who is currently set up to have a wagon starting on him (austin). I'd say its very likely we have at least one scum in the austin/VE/marv trio. Two is definitely possible too. All three? Maybe not, it would be a bit too obvious I feel. ------ Annul, being the first one to notice this, comes off as town to me. I'll look at the people mentioned more closely and see what additional info I can possibly find when I get more time. For now, this post just covers the (imo) terrible Node case. + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote: Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side. + Show Spoiler + On October 08 2012 19:15 Kreb wrote: I've got a what I would call pretty strong town read on BC so almost no chance I'll be supporting any case on him. And its not because of his pretty contributory posts, which I dont doubt he'd be able to do as scum too. Why then? Because of this: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 07:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: This stands out to me for one major reason. It makes perfect sense for mafia to push node as a distraction case regardless of the fact shady flipped green. Ask VE or Node if they remember a game in the high 30's or low 40s run by FW with the weird mason mechanic (each player could mason any two players they chose but only two players) where on day 3 or 4 as mafia my entire team sat firmly on two sides of a townie vs townie lynch pushing each. Also pushing node as a "distraction" case would be perfect if austin is red. Why? Because it got heat off himself. However, this is me merely clearing up something I find instantly wrong and misleading. In regards to the lynch yesterday. Not sure how shady was lynched, thought we had passed that when I was active in the thread yesterday. Also not sure how the node picked up so much steam the way it did given that the main person pushing said case was under some heat from people and the votes were slowly swinging the way. Why do you ask? Because node had so very few posts and was easy to cherry pick. The case was also poor on him given the fact that well, its node. The only thing that speaks badly about his posting thus far is the lack of it. Making odd posts like he has is very typical of his play regardless of alignment, and the biggest tell is his lack of involvement in the game. Rather then making a case on his posts someone should have brought up the fact that a veteran player had made such few and weird looking posts as the main tell over his one sentence on his why he thought shady wasn't scum. I am back for most of the night so I will go through the thread to make sure I can get more info out given that I have a horrible trend of dying day 1's these days. Context: I presented my thought in the Node wagon and the conclusions from it. Marv entered a discussion with me to discredit me/my case and to deny any support of it. He probably did a pretty good job of it actually since I wasnt really getting much support, although it was during an inactive part of the day. In comes BC and drops the fact that Marvs reasoning was flawed. Now, why the fuck would you do that as scum? Unless its some really deep plan behind it, if you're marvs scum buddy at that time you stfu and hope Marvs arguing gets support from the masses while I get discredited. Give off a pretty strong townie feel. Also, him wanting to lynch VE makes a lot of sense coming from a town perspective. He's had a strong scum read on VE ever since this post: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 21:33 Kreb wrote: Agreed. VE also didnt reply to any questions I asked him afterwards, nor did he reply to me calling him out for a very weak vote-switch to Node (left it to marv to do the dirty work by agressively defending my accusations while also clogging up the thread with plenty of posts?). He has also, should he be town, been either terribly bad or terribly unlucky in his scumhunting. Lets look at a few people he has touched on: 1) 2 confirmed town flips. 2) Then the attack on annul - confirmed town flip. 3) After dropping annul, posting this while placing his vote on Shady. 2 confirmed town. 4) Voted Node - no flip on him yet though. 5) Going back to annul (confirmed town) after mislynch. With very little motivation (and refused to explain himself when I questioned it). 6) Calling for a medic on a confirmed (yea, he is) scum, calling vig shot on a confirmed town. He is either scum or just randomly managed to call out about every single confirmed player (except Risen) the wrong alignment. VE is my top scum read atm. And then, this post: + Show Spoiler + On October 09 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote: Ok, time to post something before the night kills as I promised. Here are the reason I will most likely be voting VE next day if I'm alive. Also note that a lot of these things have already been posted, but with all the different tells which have been posted throughout the thread its probably a good idea to bunch them together somewhere. 1) The Node wagon. This post: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today. I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin. is the most scummy thing about it. 1a) He only says he read through austins filters, but he very nicely avoids posting what he found in it. Instead he refers to "the two walls of his" as if that somehow makes everything 100% clear. He still, as of today, has not explained why he changed. 1b) His extremely weak (on unexisting) reason to switch to Node. Someone (who people seem to regard a very strong player) should not change that easily to such a weak case it was. 2) Refusing to answer to said cases and other quetions I just know what I asked him stuff myself, like this: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 19:54 Kreb wrote: @VE Three lines of text, three questions: 1) What gave you the scum-read on annul? You were targetting him previously but to my knowledge your last stance on him was this: Has this changed? If so, why? 2) Why do you like austin? 3) Why do you dislike Mattchew? And he also refused to comment at all on my other accusations. To my knowledge he still hasnt said a word on the Node wagon yet. 3) The way he targetted annul 3a) His targetting D1 actually seemed to have a bit of reason behind it, but right after the Shady mislynch he says this: + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote: That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part. The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul. Once again, no explanation. Just straight up calling annul scum. It goes on for a while and the only legitimate reason I could see for his targetting of annul was the fact that annul suggested a vote switch (to ZBoson i think) very close to the deadline even though he had questioned vote switching before. While I did agree on that particular point against annul, that alone did in no way motivate the way VE attacked him. Also, it seemed like that reason only was revealed a bit after he had already started attacking annul, like he found about it later. A proper townie would have explained first and targetted after. 3b) Also he tried to paint annul as some really crafty mafia so the rest of us would be suspicious of him too, even though there wasnt as much to be suspicious of. mkfuba made a good case on that part: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 23:51 mkfuba07 wrote: Alright, I'm going to be getting a bit more rest since I woke up for Code S. Current thoughts: I could definitely see VE being scum. His unfortunate scumhunting is a big piece of the puzzle, but his interaction with annul keeps nagging at me. It took me a while to figure out why I was so annoyed by these posts, but I think I've figured it out. VE first emphasizes that as scum annul can become "scary" (which I assume means that he can appear to become a good contributor, though VE never actually says how annul becomes "scary"), but leaves out the fact that he might do the same exact thing as town. It doesn't feel like VE is trying to inform the town of annul's apparent meta, as much as emphasize the scummy aspects of annul's meta and attribute it entirely to scum-annul. It would feel the same way if marv came in and said that I can be incredibly wishy-washy as scum. He's emphasized in previous games that I am the master of wishy-washiness regardless of alignment (though I've only ever been scum once, for little over a day). If he were to come into this game and try to convince everyone that I'm only wishy-washy when I'm scum, then I would be incredibly suspicious of him (In fact, I believe that's part of why he avoided talking about me at all despite my case being in the same post as the Node one). In VE's case, it looks like he tried to do a similar thing, and then when annul called him out on it he tried to minimize the effect. Why say that scum-annul can be "scary" if town-annul can also be "scary" unless you're trying to make vigis take the shot without a proper reason? It seems like a pretty scummy interaction from VE. I'd really like to hear thoughts from others, as this is the first thing I feel pretty confident about this game. Finally, I'm still waiting on input from mementoss... I know that 15 pages is a lot to go through, but I'm not going to put him aside just because one of the people who was calling him out is going to flip scum. There are other lurkers, but he's promised more contributions twice now, and we've seen nothing from it. 4) Meta reads This isnt something I can really confirm but I'll add it since it makes sence because of how many peopel have expressed them. Talismania started off by calling his meta scummy early D1. That kinda died off (probably for a good reason), but since then a lot of people have commented on how VE as town is MUCH more active, sometimes/often (?) something of a town leader and being much more contributory than how he is this game. 5) Extremely scummy (or bad if he really is town) scumhunting Already posted about this, here: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 21:33 Kreb wrote: Agreed. VE also didnt reply to any questions I asked him afterwards, nor did he reply to me calling him out for a very weak vote-switch to Node (left it to marv to do the dirty work by agressively defending my accusations while also clogging up the thread with plenty of posts?). He has also, should he be town, been either terribly bad or terribly unlucky in his scumhunting. Lets look at a few people he has touched on: 1) 2 confirmed town flips. 2) Then the attack on annul - confirmed town flip. 3) After dropping annul, posting this while placing his vote on Shady. 2 confirmed town. 4) Voted Node - no flip on him yet though. 5) Going back to annul (confirmed town) after mislynch. With very little motivation (and refused to explain himself when I questioned it). 6) Calling for a medic on a confirmed (yea, he is) scum, calling vig shot on a confirmed town. He is either scum or just randomly managed to call out about every single confirmed player (except Risen) the wrong alignment. VE is my top scum read atm. 6) His post-marv-revelation behavior 6a) After having had many people saying they were suspicious of him post Marvs revelation, how did he reply? He replied with some wierd extreme confidence. Look here: + Show Spoiler + On October 04 2012 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Please, by all means. Bring it on. I haven't done anything wrong except be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm scum. It means I'm bad at the game. At least 75% of the players in this game knew that already. :/ Here: + Show Spoiler + On October 04 2012 09:32 VisceraEyes wrote: When you line it all up like that it makes it easy to see how laughable the case against me is. Thank you kush. Seriously, I was starting to worry until you did that. And here: + Show Spoiler + On October 04 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote: On October 04 2012 09:37 kushm4sta wrote: You said you were going to read through the thread again so you could figure things out. Instead of making a case against someone you just sit in the thread wise cracking? Me? Dude, we're lynching marv today. I can assure you I'm reading. I'll post something, don't you worry. It's not about the wise-cracking. Just...trust me guy. You won't want to lynch me when it's time to actually pick someone to lynch. Im not sure why scum would really wanna do that, but its 100% not towny to do. Compare to DPs case on Keirathi for example, or the french dudes on Shiao. No matter whether you like the cases or not, both Kei and Shiao were properly there to respond to the cases like a town should. VE did something completely different. Also note how he never really commented on this afterwards either, but rather seems to be banking on it being forgotten. To me, it seems more likely he "gave up" or "lost interest" (someone already pointed that out, I think it was Coag, and VE rejected it) due to the percieved OPness/sillyness of the Paramedic role. He probably intented some kind of agressive/confident defense initally, but then just didnt care about it enough. 6b) Also note how he went trollmode with marv for a while (towny thing to do? hell no.) Its quite clear he enjoys playing with marv, which further strengthens the belief that he lost interest/gave up when Marv got caught in such a silly way. 7) Marvs motive behind his discussion with me Ok, this is a new point, but I saved maybe the best for last. Lets look again at the context of Marvs behaviour of my case. First, lets look at what I wrote: Later I also kinda halfassed bunched Kush into my group of scummy people. So what do we know now: - Node is scum (I was wrong) - Austin was twon (I was wrong) - Marv is scum (I was right) Now, lets for a moment assume both VE and Kush are town. And with that assumption in mind, lets look at what Marv had to say about my case: Later turning into: Now, specifically note how he is targetting me. Not the part of my case directed to him, but me (and my case) as a whole. Now, why would you want to do that if I only were right about Marv being scummy!!?? Why would he react like that if I was wrong about Node, Austin, VE and Kush?!!? Theres absolutely no reason to. The aggressiveness of his defense clearly tells me I was onto something more than just him. If he was the only thing I had right in my post, theres several other much better approaches he couldve used to abuse my mis-reads. He could have agreed on it, admitting it was wierd (which likely would have had me going straight after VE), knowing that there was a very high chance I'd go after a town. But he didnt. He could have defended himself alone, citing town reads on VE as reason why he followed him. He didnt. He could have not said anything at all, hoping it would turn into a austin or VE lynch. He didnt. Instead he decided to go and agressively discredit me and as such my whole case. And I just cant see why he would do that if the only thing I predicted right was Marvs scummyness. I think I must have hit something more to motivate this response. And while it could possible be Kush, I think VE is the most likely person. Or hell, maybe even both. Bonus point + Show Spoiler + This is definitely confirmation bias if I somehow would be wrong about all this, but out of all replies to the mkfuba/hapa thing, this still stood out to me: On October 06 2012 21:10 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Hapa Twice in one game. Damn fine work guys. Sick crumb fuba. Really? Is that geniune happiness or irony and bitterness? And VE lynching a townie with a cop claim is no detriment to it. Seriously, I don't get why you are thinking that him wanting to lynch VE makes him scum. So yea, I sure hope that he is not really scum and make my ass look even worse, but I'll throw it on the line and go ahead with saying that I think kreb is town. He seems invested and makes too much "omg node is town" posts. The only weird thing from him so far, is him going after me like (sloosh?) said on the 7/7 argument when he himself thoguht Node was town. He also says this: + Show Spoiler + [B]On October 03 2012 05:19 Kreb wrote: I dont find Node towny from his posting. I dont find Node scummy from his posting. Geez. He has a whole 3 posts and I dont find anything alignment indicative in any of them. Stop saying anything else. As for not posting more when he was getting voted on, I dont see how thats anything but a very very minor read in either direction. Yea I can see it being somewhat scummy, but its overshadowed by other happening. For the second part: What words do you want me to use? Not feeling good/feeling kinda good/feeling ok/feeling so-so/feeling good/feeling confident/feeling kinda confidect/etc. I use the wording "not feeling super convinced". Maybe I couldve phrased it better, but thats what you got. "Feeling kinda good" or "feeling better than about any other voting target" would probably have been accurate descriptions of my feelings at that time too. Thats ok with you? I dont see anything contradictory in the wording I used though. And my wording feels like quite an irrelevant discussion and I dont like to have to spend my time defending that. Heres a recap, hopefully we can drop this discussion after this, we're not doing any scumhunting atm (the last 12h has been all about me/you/austin/VE/annul/node, theres 18ppl neither posting nor being discussed) but I hate not responding to questions since it makes it look like I ignore them: When I went to sleep: thinking austin was the best target When I read the thread: going wtf over the Node-wagon, concluding that the most likely reason for such a wagon to occur is a distraction. If so, from who? Gotta be austin! Meaning scum read on austin increases. After the recent discussion: Lowered my scum read on austin somewhat, still thinking the wagon is scummy as hell, considering other reasons as to why said wagon was started. Even when earlier he said Node was pretty townie, which seemed weird to me. Don't get me wrong, there's a chance that he's a scum dedicated to lynching VE who loves openly defending his scumbuddies, but it's not what I think atm, and I think there are much better lynch choices for today. | ||
Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Who else has a "really strong town read" on Kreb? Thanks. | ||
Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Perhaps you should open your mind to the very very small chance that I'm not scum? Actually, if you really think me to be scum, you would actually bother reading my posts to check if I'm legitimately scumhunting or not right? I've already made a case on Mattchew, which I think has actually decent arguments, me being scum or not. Actually what the fuck, why are you asking for cases? Are you not capable enough of making them? Do your scumhunting abilities resume themselves to be: "omg he voted and unvoted for node!" or "omg omg he jumped on the scumslip argument" or "omg omg he wants to vote me"? If you say this: On October 13 2012 01:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Stop ordering me around bish, I'm not conceding that yet. I want to lynch scum. By my estimation we're 3 deep and I'm not going to let unreadable Mattchew be a fucking combo-breaker JUST BECAUSE HE'S NOT PLAYING THE GAME. Present a good case convincing me he's scum, and I'll agree that he's a good lynch today. In the meantime, I'm looking for scum. Feel free to fuck off if you don't want to find scum - but that's my SOLE purpose being here right now, not to be ordered around by you. Then either: a) You actually don't read shit b) You think it's bad Since b) is more likely, why the fuck don't you say so and tell us why it's bad? What a deception your play has been, from what people say of you. I really hope you are scum. Regarding this sudden anger, think what you will. I'm pissed at how arrogant+bad VE is playing atm. | ||
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Brazil2590 Posts
Of course, only scum like openly defending people they know to be town, right? On October 02 2012 01:07 Mattchew wrote: Shady said before the game, before he knew his alignment, that he was going to troll. I have yet to see a shady case about his posting after his "trollfest" (if there is I missed it). If we lynch someone for doing something so non-alignment telling we are bad and we should feel bad. If you are voting Shady I want your reasons for the vote beyond "he was trolling and thats anti-town herp derp" STOP VOTING SHADY SANDS WITH SHIT REASONING I was thinking that we should lynch Coag because he hasn't put in any effort after getting mad at Caller about his game. He got mad at Caller for not allowing him to play in a game and then joins this one and parks a vote on Shady with shitty ass reasoning. The thing holding me back on this is that this might actually be how Coag plays, and I dont think I have played with him in a real game that I remember. Austinmc hasn't contributed jack shit, which is very different from his usual productive town self Kingjames was extremely awkwardly wishy-washy with his attempt to call out keirathi. He talks about focusing on scum hunting but has spent almost all his time trying to defend and focusing on himself. His first post also reeks of scum trying to look tryhard townie. I want to a lot more from BC, his lack of contributions make me very nervous about him. ##vote kingjames01 | ||
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I make a fucklong wall of text and he says: "anyone else think..." Then I read more of his filter and he goes around begging for people to make a mattchew case when I've already made one. So what is happening, in my mind, is: VE is not reading shit I say because he thinks I'm scum. So when I say "which I think has actually decent arguments, me being scum or not.", why is that me being scum rather than me wanting VE to fucking read, in the context of my post? Explain that, please. | ||
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On October 13 2012 07:19 Mattchew wrote: I've already made a case on Mattchew, which I think has actually decent arguments, me being scum or not. What townie thinks like this? He is basically admitting to knowing his case is wrong being that his case is made of decent arguments instead of scum finding. This is the most passive statement of an attempt to say "I've made good cases why am I scum?!" you aren't even asking for VE to respond to anything in the case just for him to look at it and call you town. I am going to vote z-boson And I'm saying this is ridiculous in the context of my post. You are saying that either you scum find or you make decent arguments? What kind of bullshit is this? Do you not scumfind BY using good arguments?? Let me lay it clearly as to why that argument is full of shit, given my post: VE has twice basically shat on posts I took hours making. --> I assume he doesn't read them because he thinks I'm scum SO, what does me, a sweet little townie who actually gives a shit do? Tell him to fucking read them even if he thinks it's scum bullshit! Why? Because it has decent arguments. How is that not logically sound? How is that remotely close to "claiming scum"? | ||
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On October 13 2012 07:34 Mattchew wrote: What do you mean by arguments I just realized there might be a little language issue... I just don't get why you didnt argue more assertively for your case on me if you truly believed in it Wait, this is a whole other matter. Now you are willing to the discuss the case I've made about you. Your objection had nothing to do with the arguments themselves, just my wording of using "good arguments" instead of "scumhunting". THAT is a little language issue. I've used other arguments against you. The two main ones are: 1) Your post on shady. 2) How your first two posts were screaming "I'm scum and I want to blend in!!" I'm not pushing you hardcore because I'm still going over who I want to lynch - you or DP. I've made cases against the both of you, but I find mine against DP more convincing. But it's impossible to actually pull the lynch if no one fucking reads it, which is why I'm whining like a little bitch. | ||
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If so, then then that argument consists on the fact that your posts are reminiscient of someone who spouts a bunch of random crap pseudoreads on people only to not revisit them ever again I.e. Someone who wants to look like he's scumhunting but really isn't. | ||
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On October 13 2012 07:48 VisceraEyes wrote: ZBos I'm not responding to your case on Mattchew because its points are, literally:
That's IT ZBos. I've seen Mattchew fuck off and do jack shit for a whole game before. I'm hesitant to call him scum because of his "pathetic filter" and your case is laughably bad at convincing me that he's scum. Frankly I don't give a FUCK that you're "angry" about how "arrogant" and "bad" I'm playing. I'm here, and I'm trying. I don't care if you don't like the quality of my play, and I don't give a fuck that you don't like that I haven't been building "cases" up to your exacting standards. I'm doing what I can when I can. Oh wait!!! But see, had you actually read it, I stated in that very same post that MY read was a meta read, because I've seen shady on a BUNCH of games -- UNLIKE MATTCHEW!! "This is your only good point if true". Aww thanks, I'm flattered, you are so cute, that's all I've ever wanted. Except no. Annul was playing scummy, that's why he got vigged. BC is playing like hardcore 3rd party (slight offside of scum). Sloosh I've also noticed how he's very different from his LVII pseudo-town meta, and am still unsure of. It's not like I'm using that argument with tunnel vision. If you've seen mattchew fuck off and do jack shit then why haven't you said so? You are hesitant to call him scum because of his "pathetic filter"? Really? You are gonna take two fucking words and sum my entire case up on it? When only above you have even said that "This is your only good point if true"? Don't say it's laughably bad if you actually even admit that some points make sense. See what I mean by you being arrogant? So let me get this straight. Here's your little carefully plotted scumlist and how you are proceding to deal with them: me: Voted on annul. Then unvoted. Fuck his tradeoff with DarthPunk and the entirety of DP's arguments. He voted annul and then he unvoted lololol DP: He jumped on a crappy "scumslip" argument. Fuck his trade off with Z-BosoN and the entirety of ZB's arguments. He jumped on a crappy "scumslip" argument and looks like he knows what's up. lololol ShiaoPi: His name has FOUR appearances in your filter. FOUR. You haven't even commented on why you think he's scum or added jack shit to his case. You just nonchallantly added his name there. Kreb: Omg he wants to lynch me despite my extremely legit-looking cop claim lololol!! Mattchew: Has done shit this game. Fuck any other arguments, he's done jack shit lolol!! Actually nvm, he can't be that non-protown. ZB's case is laughably bad now, because all he says is that Mattchew has done jack shit! You look like you are passively concocting up some people and not doing any research whatsoever. It doesn't look like you are reading anybody's filter. It doesn't look like you are legitimately trying to scumhunt. In your 14 pages of filter I've read, there is no evidence of this. See, remember I was under the assumption you and mementoss were legit? Right now I'm playing under that assumption and shit and I'm having an incredible hard time giving that assumption any credibility. I'll keep it for today because I still think there are better lynch targets, but ffs, you haven't pushed SHIT!! The most you've done is: I want to lynch X because of Y. Where Y is a shit one-liner reason that shows no real effort. If I'm a scumread why aren't you reading my filter? If both me AND darth are your scumreads why don't you read our exchange? I mean, fuck, if I honestly thought two people who have like three pages arguing against each other are scum I would certainly CERTAINLY read it and draw conclusions. But no. You are just casually putting our names there as if drawing names from a hat. On shiaopi it's even worse. It's ridiculous. Control+F "Shiao" on his entire filter and see what you will find on his "lynch candidate". He's casually laying back and putting his reasoning behind toutestchaos, me, and like 3 other people who have made cases against shiao. This is fucking ridiculous. It's not like you are my prince in shining armor and I expect you to win the game and gallantly throw us roses as you ride into the sunset. Fuck that. You are doing a despicable job for any standards whatsoever, and that is what concerns me and why I'm bitching about. | ||
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No, I don't want a flame war. I want you giving reason as to why you think we should lynch your candidates and even bother making arguments on them, instead of casually laying them down and avoiding making any sort of discussion whatsoever. Sorry if this hurts your little feelings. | ||
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It doesn't look like you are legitimately trying to scumhunt. In your 14 pages of filter I've read, there is no evidence of this. The word legitimately changes things no? I don't take your scumhunting as legit =/= you have no scumhunting. BC isn't doing fuckall because he's scum/3rd party. I'm not instilling anything in town. I'm making valid points about how you are not acting as if you really wanted to find scum. People can read and choose to agree, or disagree, it's not like I'm this evil mastermind sifting through the consciousness of victims and insidiously planting my thoughts there. Hell the fuck yea I'm trying to annoy you to make a case - if you are town. You can begin by telling us why you think shiaopi is scum. You casually added his name to your little list, and when I control+F'd him: 4 results! FOUR! Timeline: "If shiaopi is scum it will show itself" "nothing on DP" --> Shiaopi and DP fall into some scumslip crap "omg omg both shiaopi and DP are lynch-worth" See what I mean by: not legitimately scumhunting? Or do you call the above a legit, 100% foolproof, a work of art attempt at scumhunting? Again, sorry if I hurt your feelings. | ||
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On October 13 2012 09:14 VisceraEyes wrote: No I don't - I respond to the 10% that warrants response. The rest of it is just you going "lololol" and appealing to emotion. Not worth my fucking time. Try later - I'm at work right now and I'm dangerously low on THC. See the arrogance? Appealing to emotion my balls. "lololol" == I think you are full of shit. Perhaps this is just how you play. I guess someone who knows your style can think better of it. | ||
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On October 13 2012 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote: "...to your little list" Fuck you. I'm done with you. Nonono, don't be done with me! Do this: ignore every thing that hurts your feelings. Seriously, I don't want to sound patronizing, I realize I may have been a bit too condescending. Please ignore all those and answer my post. | ||
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You want people to treat you with flowers if you shit on their heads, call their cases bad and blatantly ignore what they write? No, dude, answer my post. DOn't "fuck you" me. | ||
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And let this be on reference to everyone who agrees with the arguments I have made in my recent posts. | ||
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On October 13 2012 09:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: For the same reason I fucked Mattchew last game. You fucked up. You made the biggest slip in this entire game. One thats only going to be caught by a seasoned player. Simple. You are using role speculation as a reason to not check the only person in the game that A) is believed to be third party B) Confirmed not mafia. This simple check as much as you "dont want to remove me from the game" would have removed a potential third party thus not town, while confirming the existence of a framer or a mafia cover up role while CONFIRMING YOUR FUCKING ALIGNMENT. This is the best and most efficient use of the gd role you claimed while removing a believed anti town and confirming yourself. It then *gasp* confirms coag removing 3 players from the fucking pool of people to be analyzed, forcing mafia to shoot into a pool of players etc.... You take any bit of control they might be getting in thread and remove it. Instead you "checked" for your personal use, Dts don't check for themselves, they check for town. Unless you are scum, then you check to ensure the watcher was a real watcher and not bullshitting, or you check your scumbuddy and confirm his "claim" Why?? Because he's right or because he's wrong? | ||
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If he realized this, as scum, he would have said exactly that, no? | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: He would have to know exactly which role third party was, does third party appear as a different role to dt checks, etc.... A third party role at this point in time is a complete unknown as no one knows what it will flip. Thus it is the only role that could clear him from all suspicion while clearing all of his current checks. Given that the best shot for said check was me, why would he not do it? Why would he try to only benefit himself instead of trying to benefit the entire town? He has no way to know that he won't die at night thus should be using his checks as efficiently as possible to benefit the town, yet he hasn't. Why not just say something like serial killer? Regardless of what he'd said you would have gone after him calling him scum because you are actually town, no? | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:27 Mattchew wrote: ok first of all, I never called shady town, you are really taking that post completely out of context. I was saying that no one in the thread voting shady had any actual reason to be voting him. please stop saying at any point i ever called him town because there is a HUGE difference. second, you are calling my answers to questions directly posed to me fluff and meaningless is bullshit and a misrepresentation of my posts. third, you can think my reads are crap, but atleast explain why that makes me scum and not just wrong. ok i am on a computer and gonna do a lot of reading and stop defending myself for a few posts Sorry, not that they were crap is my main argument, and sorry for saying they were meaningless. I'm hurting a lot of feelings today.. The issue I'm having is the fact that you never revisited them, and the fact that they, in my humble opinion, did not help the thread much - did not give the game more meaning - if you will. It felt blank and unpurposeful. | ||
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I also agree with his point to say he was saved by the medic. I don't see how this lie confuses town... When I was a vet in XXVIII the last thing I wanted to say was OMG SHOOT ME. By that logic, since he's likely third party, saying he's a vet would have been weird as hell. So for him it's either say nothing or say he was protected by a vet. Anyways, I'm done trying to sort things out for now. Will lift myself some weights, man up, and decide who it's best to go ahead and lay down the Boson hammer. I'm going to push one of mattchew/VE/DP. I've decided VE's scummingness is too much to ignore, especially after he basically QQed himself out of answering me (one of his top "scumreads") when I was onto him like a rabid dog. Asta la vista, sirs. | ||
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On October 13 2012 13:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Like why the fuck did marv play super pro town as a GF? It's his JOB to get checked guy. That's his PURPOSE. Why would he do that if I were on his team? Ah, and DID you check him when you got roleblocked? Funny how you never mentioned this. You just said you got roleblocked. | ||
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On October 13 2012 13:42 Coagulation wrote: his last post is so scummy its laughable. Is anyone here thats a townie feel like the events in this thread can be described even remotely "INTERESTING" No I highly doubt a townie would ever describe this derpstorm of retarded frustrating bullshit interesting ever. scum on the other hand would be very intrigued by what will happen next if theres a townie vrs townie lynch brewing. What? Why frustrating? What did you think of it? Who do you think is scum? Tell me more. Is this all you can fathom from the last 4 pages? | ||
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That's far him being your top scum read. You also didn't post anything at all during all of that, does that make you scum? iamperfection also showed he was present during all of this, does that make him scum too? Who cares what he thinks, if he used the adjective unholy, instead of frustrating, would you have found him scum? Wtf are you talking about, "piss poor town play"? Expand on that. What would have been ideal for you? And lol to your other post? I'm not asking for your description of it. I'll be more clear: do you think VE is scum?. Or is the "if he were scum, he woulda claimed roleblock!" your sole reason to not think him so, despite everything that's transpired? | ||
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On October 13 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: VE, riddle me this. When DP said stuff concerning the two night kills, you quickly called it a scumslip. Do you still think it's a scumslip? Tell me more about DP. In my head, it's him vs. you at the moment. Or have you no comment on one of your top reads? | ||
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On October 13 2012 14:06 Coagulation wrote: the only question that is worth answering. ve checking toss is piss poor town play Haha you are mr. arrogant no.2 keirathi, that's actually pretty interesting. Let's add BC instead of coag though. The only reason we *know BC is 3rd party is because of mementoss, and I'm getting a townie feel from coag. And I do agree, it does look like VE is trying to get lynched. BC also sounds strangely sure that VE's night choice was a scumslip/mistake whatever. Hmmmm... *puts conspiracy goggles on | ||
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Done with me? Yay, that means I'm not scum right? I mean, you are also done with pushing your second biggest read, right? Oh wait, right, that never happened! Phew! | ||
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On October 13 2012 14:15 Coagulation wrote: no i dont think ve is scum. but I have been wrong about him every time hes been scum in the past. Has he ever R-R-R-Rage quit in the past and voted for himself? | ||
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This game is anti-life | ||
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If we lynch VE, we won't know anything for certain, as he will pop up PI. If we lynch mementoss, and he's scum, GG. If he's town, we just lost a Medical Examiner. Since it might be either BC/Coag, it's riskier lynching these two. So if you are really balls out on that theory, mementoss is the best lynch slot, no? | ||
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I thought you were done with me! Go sleep, scum! | ||
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I propose this: we lynch some1 else today, and tomorrow, VE. | ||
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On October 13 2012 15:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Coroner dead. If we're assuming scum had the ability to change flips around, then we're assuming they did so for Kush and that they did so with Kush because no night-kills. Why? How do we know it's not a next-day deal? Someone else please answer this. He's done with me, unfortunately. | ||
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I'm never gonna play the same way as scum ever again. See that I'm town by the fact that I am actually giving a shit, mr. Coach. Let me know if you wake up feeling like you'd talk to me. I'd really love to chat with you again. I can be mean at times but boy do I have a big heart. Kei, regarding that theory, it's possible but we shouldn't base ourselves on it. VE has indeed been acting hella scummy, but man he sure is insistent. I'd rather kill someone else today. Since there are two people willing to lynch kreb, with some valid arguments by sloosh, I will go over kreb's filter more carefully. If I still get a town feel on kreb, I'll likely end up voting on DP or mattchew. | ||
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No rb has claimed, so no nk's are missing from that point. This also means that scum had to forgo a roleblock (or chose not to use it.. ?) So even if they shot BC again, which I doubt, there are still one or more kps missing. I highly doubt that they only have 1kp at this stage of the game. So there's no way the missing shots can be accounted for any reason, am I right? This must mean that this is in fact some weird mechanic. I also can't wrap my brain around the fact that BC waited until I was going after VE full force to give us his "scumslip" argument (which actually does make sense, though). Why didn't he say it earlier? Feels weird. VE's "lynch me" behavior certainly feels weird as well. It's not like someone like him can't handle pressure. I don't know what to make of all this... He sure seemed like he wanted people to lynch him there for a while, so I'm also tempted to think that it was on purpose. Whatever the situation, let's lynch someone else, be it Mattchew, DP or kreb (yes I'm including kreb's name now because my town read came from my general reading and a quick skim of his filter. I still haven't read it carefully enough.,, his lack of voice today also increased my suspicions.) | ||
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On October 13 2012 19:09 Kreb wrote: Lack of Voice? I went to sleep at about 4am when there was a small break in posting (right after VEs self vote and BC asking why that makes sense). Go check the timestamps if you like. And then I got up at about 11am and its now 12am. Is sleep the equal of hiding nowadays? lol, from my post it's quite clear I meant the lack of voice from kreb | ||
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Can't find kreb to be scummier than him ##Vote Mattchew | ||
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I also don't have his meta down hardcore, so I'm voting the person who makes most sense and also has a decent chance of being scum. He was also quite inactive during the night btw. | ||
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On October 14 2012 02:37 Keirathi wrote: I know you're not this...dumb, for lack of a softer word...all of the time. My point exactly, thank you! | ||
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Even if they did, once Node was lynched they would obviously be all like "wow he sure fooled me", which is not the tone he took. The only thing that really says it for me is the difference from his townie filter, which I've read and it sure seems a bit different. However, he's actually trying to defend himself, unlike Mattchew, who simply disappeared. Like nuke said, mattchew is a liability for the late game, we can't rely on him. Added to that, he actually has a decent chance of popping scum. He is also in agreement with your "awol" theory, if you check his filter, his only two posts are nowhere near dawn. Remember he also didn't vote in day 1? Honestly, he's a much better choice. | ||
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Ok, let me double check the times then. | ||
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On October 11 2012 00:36 Mattchew wrote: Thanks BC for that I'll write a case before the end of the night On October 11 2012 02:26 Mattchew wrote: Also kush was being pushed hard and sloosh pushed for the BC 3rd party (regardless if he's right or not) lynch... Someone else should say this but I will cause I thought of it Inb4 you called out BC too.. I haven't been reading as much as sloosh Then your next post on october 12th you had one: On October 12 2012 01:22 Mattchew wrote: forgot i had work today, i am done in ~6 hours Each of them are more than 11 hours apart from the night 4 post. This is also just a side note, not the main things you've got going on against you. You also choose someone who has not even one vote. There are like 6 lynch candidates today, we need to consolidate, seriously. | ||
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On October 14 2012 03:52 Mattchew wrote: i am reading the thread, and you have not quoted or answered risk once. Your case on me was demolished by me and VE. I would like to know your actual reasons for voting me and what actions i have taken that you deem scummy, especially if any of them pertain to anything other than "he's not active" It was not demolished. The fact that I find VE scum and you being the only person he tried to defend ever makes me think poorly of you. I've made my case, I've also made a post making a summary of my case. Here it is again: 1) Your post telling people not to vote shady for shit reasons 2) Your only two major posts stating your views on people, only never to be revisited ever again. Gives off the impression that you are just wanting to look like you are scumhunting, but you are not. VE also said that this might be true, when he ridiculed my case | ||
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On October 14 2012 03:52 Mattchew wrote: i am reading the thread, and you have not quoted or answered risk once. Your case on me was demolished by me and VE. I would like to know your actual reasons for voting me and what actions i have taken that you deem scummy, especially if any of them pertain to anything other than "he's not active" Dude click on risk's filter and see his last two posts... seriously | ||
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hi nice to see you again! That's because matt invoked your name as well, before me see. @Matt lol I'm glad you don't like you as a candidate Godamnit, why can't you just die quietly. This game confuses me. | ||
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On October 14 2012 04:06 Mattchew wrote: what is this in reference to? These are risks last posts on me z-boson references The recently ended Aperture game had almost every player in the game call me inactive and apathetic and I was town. Therefore his meta read could be easily countered by just reading the game that i was playing in alongside this game. I am attempting to become more active although in about 45 minutes I will be offline for around 20-ish hours. I will not be around at deadline. Ok, so couple of more things. You being inactive is a null tell if you are scum./town from what I'm gathering. However, it IS anti-town, as you will become a liability later on. Also, I get your reasoning for finding iamp scummy. What I don't get is why you bring this up now. Lynch time is getting closer and we need to consolidate the votes on someone, and there are like 6-7 different lynch choices. What of DP? What of Kreb? What of Shiaopi? Why are you voting iamp over any of them? I seriously think you did not read any of their filters, and just selected somebody easily pegged as scum and went for him. | ||
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The reasoning for this is that mattchew has actually bothered show his face in here and make some townie-looking posts. Also, BC's voting of him makes me very suspicious, as his reasoning for voting mattchew is not convincing and could very well be applied to ShiaoPi, in terms of usefulness. ##Unvote ##Vote ShiaoPi | ||
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Yea that's making me uneasy on who to vote. The biggest tagline of my voting on ShiaoPi is being useless with a fair possibility of being scum. The biggest tagline of me wanting to vote DP is that I actually find him scum. | ||
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On October 14 2012 08:47 DarthPunk wrote: Yep. So were others. ZB's entire case against me relied on Kush being town. Even though he later stated kush was 75% red. He used the possibility of kush being town to try and lynch me. I wanted to not lynch someone I thought was town in the end. This is all not scummy. In fact it is pro town. Bullshit, btw. | ||
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omg town is confused as ever... DP, you keep insisting and insisting that my case on you is based on kush being town. You were the FIRST one to cast scumminess on me with that logic... the ONLY remark I made before that was that "I was finding it weird that you didn't acknowledge how kush's meta was different from last game", which is not my entire case. You took ONE sidenote, made it my entire case, and said the rest was shit, which is not true. I really don't buy DP's scumhunting as legit... Could be a townie that's heavily misinterpreting what I say but what really makes me want to lynch him is the amount of OMGUS he deployed, comparable to when he was scum in LVII. We really have to get shit down, scum is heavily disorienting this lynch.. It seems like the DP wagon is really really not wanting to take off, despite so much stuff I've written on him, this is bothering me a fair lot. I will settle for ShiaoPi/mattchew, if this is really the case. Not sure which though. Everytime I think about it I change my mind, this is becoming quite annoying. | ||
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atm I want to lynch him tomorrow. The lack of kp and the fact that he is acting extremely weird today gives room the possibility that VE actually wants to get lynched, and thus confirm mementoss and BC as town, which is what keirathi is going nuts about above, and something in which I actually consider to be a real possibility. | ||
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On October 14 2012 11:26 ShiaoPi wrote: hey boson mind voting with me on.dp then? If you want to lynch just as bad as i do then drop your vote on him... Seems like for once all of us are around, so we could make a.switch happrn I won't be around for the flip, I have to go right now. I will only vote for him if someone else besides you agrees to it. | ||
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##Vote mattchew | ||
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So mafia only has 1 kp? If one hit mattchew, whatever happened to the other one? Did they try shooting BC again? | ||
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and DarthPunk Also agree with ToutEstChaos earlier analysis on ShiaoPi, but I think that DP's case is much stronger. Who knows, they might both be scum. Should have been stronger about my reads. | ||
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When you were roleblocked, did you follow mattchew? I guess that easily confirms this. He probably got a PM somewhere saying this, but it's def not in the role descritpiojn. | ||
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Maybe it is actually a town RB'er. I'm very skeptical on that. When the night had 0 kills, and nobody claimed roleblocked, if town had roleblocker, then I'm pretty sure he would claim and say who it was he roleblocked, as that guy would have extremely high odds of being scum (no kill happened, and didn't claim rbed). I think it's more likely that mafia slept on the job rather than townie have a rb. Or BC actually received some Pm's regarding RB that we know not about, which I think is (somehow?) likely. Or town RB decided not to claim and will speak up tonight? Who knows. I'm really confused. | ||
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VE got rbed night 1, while mementoss got rbed night 3. So we should expect a rb tonight boys | ||
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I'm pretty confident that sloosh/DP is scum. Lynch them. If VE survives tonight, he's scum. Lynch him after sloosh. (see the interaction that begins here). His scumhunting is in no way legit. Shiaopi has a high chance of being scum. iamperfection/risk.nuke seem townie, but I haven't read their filters carefully at all. Be weary of them. Kreb is prob town. Coag is prob town. Keir is pretty much town. | ||
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Any roleblocks? | ||
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On October 15 2012 22:23 iamperfection wrote: so they roleblocked scum ve themselves day 1. Yep. It's not as far-fetched as it may seem. We know for certain the roleblocker is mafia. VE's "it's going to be an eventful night", according to him, is why he got RB. I think that a very... weird way to claim, and could possibility be a justification for that. Anyways, activity is getting low, come on guys, we really need to be active now that we are in mylo. It seems that most people are just accepting a sloosh lynch, but that's far from the attitude we need. We still need a good theory on wtf is going on with the other night's nks. I don't buy that they shot both BC (again) and mattchew. They could have easily, easily shot mementoss and kei before, why wait until now? | ||
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On October 16 2012 03:03 iamperfection wrote: I disagree why would they waste a role block like that when they know there are tons of blues running around. Just for some elaborate plan to save VE as much as possible. Ve has been trying to figure out who is scum. ShaoPi despite his stay of execution has still not scum hunted at all. You take VE's scumhunting as legit? After his exchange with me and after keir also thinking this? Really? Regarding the roleblock, I believe it does make VE look better, but don't discredit the possibility that they would roleblock one of their own and claim him omg omg town. He is who i would like to lynch still. I dont agree with this reasoning at all. DP flip flopping on kush is somewhat of mis characterization and it wouldn't be a scum tell anyways. Flip flopping is not a scum tell it shows signs of people trying to figure out if someone was scum or not. DP believing kush might be town had the same thinking i had towards the end for kush. Plus lack of backbone?? from what i rember dp was screaming at the top of his lungs when he got into a shit show with z-boson. Also ShiaoPI sates he cant make a proper case with quotes and what not but still hasn't delivered. I see no town motivation in any of the actions by ShiaoPi and at this point in the game i think he has the best chance of flipping scum. Are you even reading? That's not the case on him. I've gone at him carefully TWICE, and keir himself once. That's not nearly the main arguments in any of the three cases. My main issue with him is how he ATTACKED me for "trying to milk cred by saying how he thinks kush is town", that was his first reaction (at a moment where he was "100%" sure kush was scum. Only to later think kush is town. It bugs me that ShiaoPi went extremely "omg look, scumslip!" when DP made an extremely fair assumption regarding the NKs. Not sure what to think of this yet. Anyways, atm I'm willing to lynch sloosh, but I want to go over some filters first. | ||
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Being useless? --> let's lynch coag or shiaopi. Not saying names and keeping others at guess? well... On October 12 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote: I have another check. Scum let me have it. Anyone wanna guess who it was? Anyone? Anyone care because it's pretty much useless? I'm not jumping in this retard kreb wagon. If you want him lynched tell us why he's scum instead of implying everything, because I just can't see it. My top scum read is sloosh, and he has been extremely aggressive on kreb. Could be a bus attempt, but I doubt it. I also think DP/ShiaoPi/sloOsh are much better options. | ||
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On the kush night he voted me saying: On October 11 2012 11:05 iamperfection wrote: dp makes more sense than zboson and i believe kush is town. He panicked the last time he was under pressure of lynch as scum he did not do it here. ## Vote Z-Boson Which quickly turned into: On October 13 2012 07:50 iamperfection wrote: i dont think that was a scum slip darth. Shaopi random entering into the thread like that droping no new information simply strengthens my read on him. He just jumps in here and says herp derp obvious scum is obvious dosent even consider the other possibilities I have a strong town read on both darthpunk and Z-boson they have been very open with their thought process and explaining why they think what they think they read as town to me. I really want to lynch shaopi he has done nothing to make me think he is town. ## Vote Shaopi He reached a conclusion based on an interchange me and DP had, and then decided that we are both town, without adding much. Now he shows signs that he didn't read into me/DP at all. If he didn't read, how did he change conclusions so fast? The same interchange he used to vote on me he used to claim me town, and that strikes me as weird. Want to elaborate? | ||
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If you are going to claim blue you gotta be more convincing than that. Crumbs? Now that you claimed do you have anything to add? Or did you just claim for the hell of it? Spill the beans bro. Why the fuck did you claim anyways, it's not like the whole town is against you. | ||
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On October 16 2012 09:04 iamperfection wrote: you idiots are probably both town you guys were arguing basically the same thing against each other. It might not look like that to you but well thats what it looked like to me. That's because you skimmed over it. You haven't read any of the cases against DP to claim that he's a target because of his kush flip-flop. How bout you read the fucking game now that we are in mylo hm? | ||
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On October 16 2012 09:20 iamperfection wrote: stfu if you read the game you would know that im town and your just wasting time. I'm inclined to think you are townie. A useless one at that. If it's that easy, go ahead and read VE's filter and "know that he's town", how bout that? Or is 20 pages just too much? Also, why are you voting kreb, hm? | ||
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On October 16 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote: because as long as he speaks in riddles my vote will stay on him. But im pretty sure i know what he is going to claim and i think we have a good chance of winning if I'm right. Fair enough. And what of your town read on VE. I know you don't think it likely because of the day 1 rb thing. Leaving that sole fact aside, what do you think of his filter? | ||
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On October 16 2012 11:43 Coagulation wrote: I thought we had come to the conclusion it was his role. wtf? How in the godamn hell is it his role? A coroner finds out how people died. It makes no sense for a coroner to have a different alignment. Also, it's highly unlikely that kush is scum, because the KP is still at 2. | ||
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Arson[1] is the crime of intentionally and maliciously setting fire to buildings, wildland areas,[2] cars[3][4] or other property with the intent to cause damage. It may be distinguished from other causes such as spontaneous combustion and natural wildfires. Arson often involves fires deliberately set to the property of another or to one's own property as to collect insurance compensation.[5] So I take it that's like someone who kills people (and maybe everyone who visits said person)? Why would they need to not kill the previous night though, that makes little sense. | ||
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On October 16 2012 13:15 Coagulation wrote: I dont even give a shit. I know your scum tho. post game dont get all egotistical thinking you played me or some shit cause I know the teuth. then why is your vote parked on kreb huh? | ||
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I haven't voted on you yet because I'm still figuring out if you are worth today's lynch or if I should target sloosh (whom you've also conveniently ignored). You also lie saying that I am 100% sure you are scum, please quote where I gave absolute certainty. You are just a very strong suspicion. You can't ignore me and say I'm cheerleading your wagon and thus scum. I've been more than clear regarding my thoughts on why you are scum. You say you are done with me yet say absolute shit regarding my main concerns against you. Go ahead and call out scum all you'd like, say how townie you are, etc. it doesn't give your claim credibility. You know what gives my claim that you are scum credibility? Your fucking play. Your little "butthurt" act on me, one of your top scumreads. I don't see a townie decide to play this act when dealing with a "top scumread". I've extensively explained this, and why I think you are scum. Have been hammering at you for the longest time now, and you felt it was convenient to cast it aside. Also, this right here: Because whether you guys like it or not, the claim is a part of my play this game. Sorry to disappoint if you think my play has been "horrible" or "bad" or whatever...I would argue that I've had bad moments but overall my play has been relatively straight-forward. Anyone saying that I haven't been scumhunting this game is being maliciously ignorant. Just a glance at my filter is enough to see that I care about finding scum. It's not even a question. I may not be super awesome at it, but it's clear that I'm trying. Exceptions start to appear when I start losing my grip on the game - when Kush flipped town is a great example of a point where I pretty much don't even care anymore. My check after Kush flips is evidence of this. Mementoss was, as BC and others have pointed out, a bad check - both for myself and for town. I threw his name out there to see if he was lying about his claim...and now that I know my checks are accurate(ish) then that further reinforces the idea that I had a good report on Kush too. Is shit. Anyone who can read your filter will note that you haven't bothered to actively pursue A SINGLE person on your scum list, something I've pointed out MULTIPLE times and you haven't replied once. The most pursuing you've done is on kreb, and the most convincing you've said regarding him is how "his townie filter is much much bigger than the filter this game". You've also drawn a ridiculous association between me and kreb that all it does is strengthen your massive appeal to emotion you just splurged. You don't write out theories, you don't explain anything. You don't justify shit. It's the same thing as if Kreb stated that every single person on his wagon is mafia and started calling out scum. It's interesting how you've actually felt the need to try and defend yourself right now. This actually strengthens your scumminess. Instead of trying to figure shit out, trying to go through filters and take a stance on whoever is scum, now that we are in a possible mylo, what do you do? "Guys I'm sorry, I've been trying my best, I really have!!!" "Come at me scum, I dare you!!" "Kreb+ZB = SCUM because they want to lynch me!!!" That's basic scum defensive instinct. An active townie who actually gave a shit would certainly use much better arguments rather than "THESE GUYS ARE TRYING TO LYNCH ME, A TOWNIE. THUS, THEY ARE SCUM." By all means though, continue with your butthurt act. I don't need your approval to show people how scummy you look. I'm voting for sloosh today. I'm pretty certain the both of you make a very nice scumteam. So everybody sees what I mean, go ahead and control+F sloosh on VE's filter. That's how much he cares about someone who's been in a LOT of fire and is BC's main scumread. You are also both conveniently focusing on kreb, someone I actually have a town read on and who also claimed. The main reason I'm choosing sloosh over you is due to the slight 10% chance that you are actually a town cop, and because someone like BC confirmed a major scum read I've had earlier on. Anyways, nice try though. Your post almost got me crying. Almost. | ||
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Does you "priming" him give you any additional information? | ||
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"Not hard" --> that's because I know. "I await my fate" --> Not gonna bother dedicating my last wisps of life finding scum. GG buddy ##Vote VE. | ||
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But then this post: On October 10 2012 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote: iamp, you've got this thing about not being mentioned by people. It's a town trait and thus I have no reason to look into you closer. And it's an effing bold move if you're scum, which I haven't seen you play scum much but it's bolder than most newish players are willing to venture. Just chillax dude - if Shiao is scum we'll find out soon enough. What's your take on Mementoss' claim? According to the OP we have a Private Investigator (me) a yet-to-be-confirmed "Detective" and Mementoss' claim of a watcher type role in (I think) "Medical Examiner". My role functions like a cop/rolecop double whammy. That begs the questions "What does the Detective do?" and "Why the piss does a role like Medical Examiner function like a watcher?". Makes that unlikely. A town VE giving a town read on a scum iamp? Nah. I find it more likely that either both of iamp and VE are scum or iamp is town and VE is scum. | ||
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If this is how you play as town I'll be very very sad. | ||
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This game is insanely frustrating and my reaction to VE's alignment indicates that I should be spending less time here. | ||
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GG scum | ||
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On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote: DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ | ||
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EDIT: you = keir | ||
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Haha, I'll quote this sad sad post again: On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote: DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ I basically gave up when despite me writing 2 full cases, making extensive posts on him, and being insistent as fuck that he was scum, nobody seemed to find him scummy, not even you (you did so after I gave up, basically). So I just figured I was making a bad read and moved on | ||
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On October 18 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote: Honestly it felt like you guys were just yelling back and forth at each other. Neither of you were convincing. I decided DP was scum because of the reasons he was pushing Kush the night after Hapa died, but I was more sure of slOosh. Then during the kush wagon and end of the night, I decided that he was even scummier than slOosh so I started pushing him. Then I brainfucked myself and was terrible. Problem was, I actually engaged in the flame war. So people started reading it as: bleh just two townies fighting each other. But dude, the comment he made regarding "me milking town cred" was in NO WAY townie. Also, kush was obviously acting differently, yet DP didn't comment on that. In the other game, he actually unvoted the flammable scum kush as town, despite kush being scum. This was a very VERY strong tell, because I know his meta, but DP flamed it away pretty nicely. And then he used his own "trying to setup on a mislynch" argument against me, this was about the most WTF thing I had ever heard. But again, people weren't taking me or him seriously and just dismissed it as two townies gnawing against each other and didn't bother reading much into it. | ||
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from this exchange I started viewing him as scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=134#2672 my main problem is that I overestimated VE (no offense, it's because you coached me in my first game so I naturally had too high of expectations). He actually knew my scum meta and I couldn't fathom him still thinking I was scum despite everything due to that day one Node thing. Also, Kreb was like my biggest town read, and I also couldn't fathom him thinking that he was scum for the reasons he gave. | ||
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Was is that Node thing? EDIT lol bke, nice snipe. | ||
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I was extremely confused though, and thought that maybe understanding the setup would be helpful in determining the likelihood of certain things. Boy was I wrong. | ||
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