+ Show Spoiler +
(4)Metropolis
Suggest players 4
Playable 150 X 150
Published KR
Created by LSPrime
Plains of Despair
http://teamcrux.tistory.com/19
More Screenshot
+ Show Spoiler +
Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games |
LS
Korea (South)145 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + (4)Metropolis Suggest players 4 Playable 150 X 150 Published KR Created by LSPrime Plains of Despair http://teamcrux.tistory.com/19 More Screenshot + Show Spoiler + | ||
NewSunshine
United States5651 Posts
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LS
Korea (South)145 Posts
and zerg can not build hatchery before remove creep tumor On December 03 2011 14:15 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote: Absolutely gorgeous map, I'm seriously jealous. Not just the aesthetics though - although that part is really sick - the layout looks cool too. The creep tumors look out of place though, visually speaking. I think just for fun you could try a hostile missile turret though | ||
Tazerenix
Australia340 Posts
I assume there are no close by ground spawns? If you want LSPrime I can upload to NA for you. | ||
Hydrox911
United Kingdom261 Posts
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Rikke
Germany302 Posts
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
Also, the creep tumor is a nice touch there. | ||
Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
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UnOv3rRaT3d
United States6 Posts
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
Not sure that is a problem per se, but I prefer maps that do not highly encourage that. | ||
Hermanoid
Sweden213 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Hermanoid
Sweden213 Posts
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Conquerer67
United States605 Posts
And as for the creeped islands, I think it doesn't really matter if it has a tumor or not. Except in really early game, any decent zerg should have any islands creeped up themselves, so this is just so that Terran can't exploit the lack of overlord creep spread in the early game. EDIT: And in PvT, would you rather have rocks and have to drop your army in to clear the expo? | ||
Ruscour
5233 Posts
On December 03 2011 20:28 Superouman wrote: I don't see the utility of creeped islands. Players take islands so rarely and you put a handicap to the one wanting to take it. For example, on Sanshorn Mist AE, i never saw any player take the islands, and they don't have anything blocking them. I think you would've seen it more by Terrans as players got on the map before because a lot of Terrans are starting to take a hidden base, drop all their MULEs there so that they get more out of their main/natural. The creep tumor prevents that...but I can't really see how island bases would be a good idea for any other race. For Zerg unless you use that specific Hatchery for muta production (which requires more macro actions and such), you need a macro hatch to make up for the production, they're pretty much impossible to take for Protoss (unless they open Phoenix or something) and probably too good for Terran in comparison. If anyone could explain why islands are good for gameplay, I'm all ears, I just don't see it. | ||
a176
Canada6688 Posts
but i dont like this movement towards easy and safe thirds On December 03 2011 18:42 Sea_Food wrote: If you didnt know this is just reskin of plains of despair. nor do i like this movement of reskinning maps and releasing them as 'new' | ||
Sloke
Germany2433 Posts
Amlitzer: Absolutely stunning map, another job well done LSPrime. I do have one concern I would like to raise though that worries me; it seems like it's really easy for a player, especially a terran, to turtle off of 5 bases and then push out with a 200/200 army. Also, do you mind telling me if it's possible for a siege tank to attack the mineral line and/or gas of the middle non-island expos from one of the mains? The same concerns as i have with this layout. The 2 only chokes that seperates the 5 bases on one side from the middle are so small or should i say non-existend. And if u would say: "so it's ok just take more expos and harass" i think the air-space around the mains are also quiet small. Here a pic for better understanding: + Show Spoiler + | ||
NunedQ
Germany234 Posts
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Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:24 Sloke wrote: Show nested quote + Amlitzer: Absolutely stunning map, another job well done LSPrime. I do have one concern I would like to raise though that worries me; it seems like it's really easy for a player, especially a terran, to turtle off of 5 bases and then push out with a 200/200 army. Also, do you mind telling me if it's possible for a siege tank to attack the mineral line and/or gas of the middle non-island expos from one of the mains? The same concerns as i have with this layout. The 2 only chokes that seperates the 5 bases on one side from the middle are so small or should i say non-existend. And if u would say: "so it's ok just take more expos and harass" i think the air-space around the mains are also quiet small. Here a pic for better understanding: + Show Spoiler + Yeah personally I think that repositioning the main's minerals and gas to have them facing the middle would make harras a lot easier on this map, which I think would help discourage turtling. It would also help zerg and protoss players brake a terran players defenses. The zerg player can get broodlords to attack the mains and a protoss player can get colossus or even voidrays to do the same. + Show Spoiler + | ||
IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
no. just no. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
On December 04 2011 06:29 IronManSC wrote: lol @ amlitzer... no. just no. Great argument, in particular I love the lack of basic grammatical skills I feel it adds a nice touch. | ||
IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On December 04 2011 06:45 Amlitzer wrote: Great argument, in particular I love the lack of basic grammatical skills I feel it adds a nice touch. I don't understand what grammatical skills I am "lacking" in particular other than not capitalizing a word... BUt, if you face the minerals toward the center you make it extremely hard for zerg since they will have to circle around the main to get any siege units that are firing into the minerals. Try not to troll a map-maker into implementing a feature you would love to abuse for harassment, and don't troll me over grammatical skills. | ||
ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
No seriously, turtling on five bases is so easy..... Rejoin the two chokes leading into the center from the beginning area and things should be easier. Or better yet, make the center highground. Anyway, the map is quite imbalanced in its current state. | ||
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:24 Sloke wrote: Show nested quote + Amlitzer: Absolutely stunning map, another job well done LSPrime. I do have one concern I would like to raise though that worries me; it seems like it's really easy for a player, especially a terran, to turtle off of 5 bases and then push out with a 200/200 army. Also, do you mind telling me if it's possible for a siege tank to attack the mineral line and/or gas of the middle non-island expos from one of the mains? The same concerns as i have with this layout. The 2 only chokes that seperates the 5 bases on one side from the middle are so small or should i say non-existend. And if u would say: "so it's ok just take more expos and harass" i think the air-space around the mains are also quiet small. Here a pic for better understanding: + Show Spoiler + You don't want air-space around the main, it makes medivacs/mutas/banshees far too safe. If you are going to be aggressive you have to expect to take some losses, its way too easy to just clown around the back of the main waiting for the army to move out. There is really smooth transition from 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th. Having difficult 2+ expansions forces a choice of 2 problematic decisions, turtling on a small amount of bases, afraid to push out because they know that if they lose their army they cannot reinforce, or going all-in because they won't be able to achieve enough map control to get a third safely. Nothing wrong with making lots of bases easily wall able. This is a vital component for non head-on aggressive tech strategies, as well as mech. Some people think that having lots of bases will cause turtling, but its lack of "map control-ability" that will cause turtling. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States9655 Posts
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Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
On December 04 2011 06:54 IronManSC wrote: Show nested quote + On December 04 2011 06:45 Amlitzer wrote: On December 04 2011 06:29 IronManSC wrote: lol @ amlitzer... no. just no. Great argument, in particular I love the lack of basic grammatical skills I feel it adds a nice touch. I don't understand what grammatical skills I am "lacking" in particular other than not capitalizing a word... BUt, if you face the minerals toward the center you make it extremely hard for zerg since they will have to circle around the main to get any siege units that are firing into the minerals. Try not to troll a map-maker into implementing a feature you would love to abuse for harassment, and don't troll me over grammatical skills. The whole point in moving the minerals is to make them easier to harass. I don't understand at all why you are implying that would be an unfair advantage for terran. If anything, it would actually be easier for mutas to harass than it would be for siege tanks to siege the mineral line. No matter where you spawn you are going to have to get mutas, where as terran is not always going to get siege tanks. Even if you get siege tanks, a siege in that location is not a smart idea since you would end up losing the tanks 99% of the time. It's also highly doubtful that a siege at that location would be able to even brake even economic wise. Not to mention as Artosis always says the proper way to play mech is to not lose any siege tanks while building up your force and then pushing out. The zerg player does not have such an option, he has to go mutas in order to harass his opponent's expos. This isn't metal where you can sometimes sneak down the opposite lane and attack one of the other mains/naturals. This is due to the fact that on this map the two paths are right next to each other, in comparison to metal which has a large enough gap to fit an entire gold base. I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick and tired of seeing these split map situations where the player take their half of the map and then push out with 200/200. It's like I'm watching bronze players play except it's off of 5 base instead of 1. I'm not "trolling" you, I'm sorry you have to resort to such baseless claims to cover your own ass. I probably will not even get the chance to play on this map outside of custom games with friends so why would I "troll" LSPrime into implementing a "favorable" feature? Just because my view opposes yours does not make my motives without good intentions. I also don't care that you are a "map maker", I'm a map maker to, which is why I'm in this thread in the first place. Let me guess, you think just because you are on some map making clan that that gives you some sort of authority over map analysis? I'm sorry but TPW always has and always will be a second-tier map making team in comparison to the likes of ESV and the GSL people, so I honestly do not care you are on a "team". | ||
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
kamsa | ||
Timetwister22
United States538 Posts
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:42 Amlitzer wrote: I'm sorry but TPW always has and always will be a second-tier map making team in comparison to the likes of ESV and the GSL people, so I honestly do not care you are on a "team". You were doing good until here, man. I don't like IronManSC's approach here at all, either, but using that as an opportunity to take a dump on the passions and work of the rest of his team is pretty lame. How do you get as good as ESV/GSL? You work at it, and that's what I've seen a lot of TPW do. What you're doing to IronMan is just punching back. That's pretty much it. Take his negativity and use it as an opportunity to build a positive forum environment, please, for myself, yourself, and to further the goal of the whole mapmaking community: to make awesome maps. IronMan, I encourage you to not lower yourself to the meme-ish "no. just no". If you don't like someone's suggestion,and their explanations fall short, I encourage you to explain your reservations and ask if they've considered them. Encourage discussion, not condescension. And to everyone else, I encourage you to discourage petty mud-flinging where ever its found, and foster discussion, not condescension. Let's keep the map making forum a nexus of awesome, and not let it descend into a drama fest worthy of MTV, yeah yeah? <3 | ||
NewSunshine
United States5651 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:31 FoxyMayhem wrote: And to everyone else, I encourage you to discourage petty mud-flinging where ever its found, and foster discussion, not condescension. Let's keep the map making forum a nexus of awesome, and not let it descend into a drama fest worthy of MTV, yeah yeah? <3 Indeed. Less Jersey Shore, more Beavis & Butthead. Oh, wait, that might not be good either... | ||
IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
Second, I was not commenting about myself being a map-maker. Yes, I am one, but I was referring to LSPrime when I said that, not me. Just so that misunderstanding is out of the way. It's pretty low of you to publicly insult me and the rest of the TPW map-makers though and basically just say we're second rate when we've only been around for 3-4 months. I thought that was unnecessary, so please do not bring my team members into this. | ||
Warpath
Canada1242 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10149 Posts
new metalopolis? can u spawn close positions? also genius creep tumor idea, the creep tumor is annoying for all 3 races but it helps zerg since they can build on creep! and islands are harder for them to defend =O | ||
Namrufus
United States396 Posts
very cool visuals! | ||
Proko
United States1022 Posts
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:42 Amlitzer wrote: Show nested quote + On December 04 2011 06:54 IronManSC wrote: On December 04 2011 06:45 Amlitzer wrote: On December 04 2011 06:29 IronManSC wrote: lol @ amlitzer... no. just no. Great argument, in particular I love the lack of basic grammatical skills I feel it adds a nice touch. I don't understand what grammatical skills I am "lacking" in particular other than not capitalizing a word... BUt, if you face the minerals toward the center you make it extremely hard for zerg since they will have to circle around the main to get any siege units that are firing into the minerals. Try not to troll a map-maker into implementing a feature you would love to abuse for harassment, and don't troll me over grammatical skills. The whole point in moving the minerals is to make them easier to harass. I don't understand at all why you are implying that would be an unfair advantage for terran. If anything, it would actually be easier for mutas to harass than it would be for siege tanks to siege the mineral line. No matter where you spawn you are going to have to get mutas, where as terran is not always going to get siege tanks. Even if you get siege tanks, a siege in that location is not a smart idea since you would end up losing the tanks 99% of the time. It's also highly doubtful that a siege at that location would be able to even brake even economic wise. Not to mention as Artosis always says the proper way to play mech is to not lose any siege tanks while building up your force and then pushing out. The zerg player does not have such an option, he has to go mutas in order to harass his opponent's expos. This isn't metal where you can sometimes sneak down the opposite lane and attack one of the other mains/naturals. This is due to the fact that on this map the two paths are right next to each other, in comparison to metal which has a large enough gap to fit an entire gold base. I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick and tired of seeing these split map situations where the player take their half of the map and then push out with 200/200. It's like I'm watching bronze players play except it's off of 5 base instead of 1. I'm not "trolling" you, I'm sorry you have to resort to such baseless claims to cover your own ass. I probably will not even get the chance to play on this map outside of custom games with friends so why would I "troll" LSPrime into implementing a "favorable" feature? Just because my view opposes yours does not make my motives without good intentions. I also don't care that you are a "map maker", I'm a map maker to, which is why I'm in this thread in the first place. Let me guess, you think just because you are on some map making clan that that gives you some sort of authority over map analysis? I'm sorry but TPW always has and always will be a second-tier map making team in comparison to the likes of ESV and the GSL people, so I honestly do not care you are on a "team". Maybe he called you a troll, because he respects you so much that he couldn't believe you would actually have such an retarded "view", still after being in the sc2 community for a while, let alone the map making community. If main is siegeble from low ground that is very far from ramp the map is broken. Furthermore ZvT is very playable with 0 mutalisk, but you will not find a single terran in master league or higher that wont have a siege tank still after 15min mark in TvZ. | ||
DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
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lovablemikey
264 Posts
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DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
On December 07 2011 07:37 lovablemikey wrote: This map is super beautiful, but I think the layout is too typical. A few people have brought up some caveats that I agree with, but those aside, I don't think this map does anything differently enough. I'm assuming you don't want to spend a lot of hours changing things because the details are so polished already, so I'll gently encourage you to call this done and start your next map. Although, some of the suggestions others have made would be easy. Do those! This map, even the name, is really really simple to metal, just an updated/better version. Like Calm Before the Stormw as based off of Delta Quadrant, this seems to be based off of metal. Which I'm fine with, because Jesus metal needs to die already. | ||
chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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ChriS-X
Malaysia1374 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Why not move the tumor closer to the center of map? I don't mind Zergs being able to take the island right away, as long as the creep can be cleared quickly. | ||
CycoDude
United States326 Posts
we'll see how it goes i guess... | ||
Yoshi Kirishima
United States10149 Posts
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Andreas
Norway214 Posts
On December 27 2011 20:31 RoboBob wrote: The creeped island is a cool idea. But the current tumor placement is bad. It will take too long for the creep to dissolve for either Protoss or Terran to take that base effectively. But Zerg can just Nydus one Drone there to kill the Tumor and plant the Hatchery immediately. Why not move the tumor closer to the center of map? I don't mind Zergs being able to take the island right away, as long as the creep can be cleared quickly. I completely disagree - the main problem with island expos is that zergs have the hardest time taking them. Terrans can just float a CC, Warp Prism is easily available in any standard Protoss tech path, while Zergs have to invest heavily in a nydus or drops to go there. I think this solution is great, and I wonder if we'll see any players for example open Banshees, fall back after a while and use a scan/get a Raven to take the tumor out early so they can expand there later on. Will be interesting. On December 27 2011 20:29 ChriS-X wrote: really hope close by ground spawns are disabled, otherwise it'll just be like the old metalopolis What? Is that a joke? It's a 2 player map... | ||
grs
Germany2339 Posts
On December 27 2011 20:52 Andreas wrote: Show nested quote + On December 27 2011 20:29 ChriS-X wrote: really hope close by ground spawns are disabled, otherwise it'll just be like the old metalopolis What? Is that a joke? It's a 2 player map... The overview screen shot in the OP shows 4 spawn points for me. | ||
Yoshi Kirishima
United States10149 Posts
On December 27 2011 20:56 grs wrote: Show nested quote + On December 27 2011 20:52 Andreas wrote: On December 27 2011 20:29 ChriS-X wrote: really hope close by ground spawns are disabled, otherwise it'll just be like the old metalopolis What? Is that a joke? It's a 2 player map... The overview screen shot in the OP shows 4 spawn points for me. Yes but that doesn't mean that all the spawn combinations are possible =O I hope you can't spawn close. The way they made the third (partially blocked by rocks) makes the path to the other side longer since it curves around the base, but even then I'm pretty sure it's not very long... or rather, it's still short xD. Also, I wonder if the creep tumor should be moved so it's not blocking. It seems like this map can be split easily like others say, so it may favor P and T against Zerg. Since Zerg usually gets mutas and air anyways, perhaps it would be better to give them the biggest advantage possible regarding the island expansions, so they have more bases/resources? The 2 bases in the middle of the map seem like they will always be hard for both P/T and Z to get, so it seems like the map will be split with the islands not favoring P/T (or T over P) over Z that much, if at all. | ||
Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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Mereel
Germany895 Posts
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Lixo
202 Posts
On December 27 2011 21:46 Mereel wrote: lol 5 free bases......what a terrible map is that. i predict a 100% terran winrate against both races "Suggest players 4" Means it's designed for 2vs2. | ||
Mereel
Germany895 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298398 | ||
pdd
Australia9933 Posts
At least on Shakuras Plateau you had a choice of taking the third below or taking your pocket third, which would alter the flow of the game quite a bit. I just don't really get the idea behind this map to be honest. | ||
Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
On December 27 2011 21:57 Lixo wrote: Show nested quote + On December 27 2011 21:46 Mereel wrote: lol 5 free bases......what a terrible map is that. i predict a 100% terran winrate against both races "Suggest players 4" Means it's designed for 2vs2. uh...no. Not a big fan of this kind of map, rotational symmetry is way better imo. 4th+5th bases are really easy to get when you have to defend just 2 chokes + drops, but maybe it will play out just fine. | ||
Omsomsoms
Croatia194 Posts
I'd love to see something whacky like a 3 player map with all sorts of destructible objects and invisible lurker eggs like that one map in BW. | ||
Archvil3
Denmark989 Posts
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
My practice partners when it is on NA | ||
thezanursic
5478 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I love the asthetics | ||
totalpigeon
United Kingdom162 Posts
Maybe this is a further part of the initiative by the GSL to field maps that are favourable to Protoss?? Calm Before the Storm can be considered as a P map as the easily defended in base nat lends itself well to P games, this map seems similar due to the apparent ease of taking bases and pushing vs bio or zerg though the choked up middle. | ||
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals... In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup. Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy... the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible. | ||
drgrofl
Canada48 Posts
GG | ||
Primal666
Slovenia418 Posts
On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote: Some map concepts just don't work... Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals... In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup. Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy... the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible. be happy protoss doesn't have to spend gas for warp prism, unlike zerg has for nydus or drops.Map ilooks awsome tho and exept it looks even more turtly than shakuras, we will see:D | ||
Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Dingodile
4123 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Why? Terran has anywhere on the map detection and 2 ways to take care of the tumor (drops and dropping SCV's from a CC). For Protoss and Zerg drop is not a necessary part of the army compositions as well as having the ability to scan for the tumor with no previous set up (toss and zerg have to get mobile detection over to the island, Terran can just scan). In Sanshorn Mist AE we saw that Zerg and Protoss were actually the only ones using islands, and I think with the tumor that alone could deter them away from it completely. I could be 100% off base, just spent a lot of time thinking about Sanshorn's Islands and seems like the same logic would apply here. On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote: Some map concepts just don't work... Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals... In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup. Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy... the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible. Islands went 100% unused by Korean Terrans on Sanshorn Mist, I would argue that maybe actually islands are a VERY overlooked aspect of mapmaking these days and might actually be P or Z favored. | ||
Lovedoll
Japan540 Posts
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NGrNecris
New Zealand855 Posts
On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote: Some map concepts just don't work... Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals... In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup. Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy... the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible. Its true terrans can take island expos faster but its also harder for terrans to defend the island expo because you can't instantly reinforce there with units unlike protoss warp ins/zerg nydus and mass muta | ||
Steamboatlol
United States161 Posts
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On December 27 2011 21:57 Lixo wrote: Show nested quote + On December 27 2011 21:46 Mereel wrote: lol 5 free bases......what a terrible map is that. i predict a 100% terran winrate against both races "Suggest players 4" Means it's designed for 2vs2. you sir, while being incorrect, made me smile ear to ear with your naivety | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:31 Superouman wrote: Protoss have the best defence with islands, photons, warp-ins and blinkstalker if they can blink out of the island (which is not the case here) Missile turrets are inarguably the best anti air static defense in the game, mass repair makes you require far less of them for a lot of threats, planetary means you dont die if your opponent drops 8 food there and you dont have a warp cycle off cooldown (A legitimate issue, suprisingly, ive lost nexii on islands in team games between cycles to a single drop when they run around with stim and dont target probes) coupled with the way flying orbitals work and how good medivacs are in every terran matchup i think it is near universally agreed on that terrans are advantaged with islands to a large degree | ||
mangoloid
100 Posts
Reading through the comments in this thread, I am dumbfounded. This is obviously designed as an easily splittable map a la Shakuras Plateau, yet people are denouncing "5 base turtle" play as though it were the most disgustingly abusive style in the game. Do they really think a 5-base vs 5-base tug-of-war is that bad? Other people seem to be focusing on the islands and claiming that they break the balance of the game. Everything I've seen in SC2 tells me that their claims are hysterical bullshit, and that islands remain an under-explored aspect of melee maps, but if there is a balance problem with the islands which come out during tournament play, those problems should be easy enough to fix. I like this map a good deal more than Shakuras. The expansion progression is more natural, and rather than going out and defending the low ground when trying to take the 3rd, you have a nice high ground choke. Also, unlike Shakuras, where the center is really narrow, this center is really wide open, which ought to make late-game engagements much more interesting. My one worry about this map is the vulnerability of the mains, which might tempt terran/protoss to do all-ins; however, the vulnerability of the mains is necessary in the late game when there is otherwise only 2 small chokes to attack into (in the case of 5-base turtle). Again, I am really interested in seeing how this map plays out. Hopefully a few epic games will convince people that this is a map worth keeping. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36665 Posts
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On December 28 2011 06:23 Diamond wrote: Islands went 100% unused by Korean Terrans on Sanshorn Mist, I would argue that maybe actually islands are a VERY overlooked aspect of mapmaking these days and might actually be P or Z favored. I'm pretty sure that because islands haven't been in maps for so long they are just not part of the "plan" of the players. They aren't part of the metagame. So players simply don't use them because of that, not because of their balance. Imo the islands on Sanshorn basically only favor Zerg massively if they decide to go mutas. | ||
WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Arceus
Vietnam8332 Posts
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vtbarrera
United States46 Posts
Great stuff by the way LSPrime; you make some amazing maps that definitely push the envelope! | ||
Yoshi Kirishima
United States10149 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:56 Arceus wrote: Dunno if close-by-air spawn is disable or not. That would create a bit more variety of strategies imo. Doesnt hurt Create more variety if it is or isn't disabled? | ||
fenix404
United States305 Posts
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MildCocoA
Korea (South)127 Posts
wait EU & SEA | ||
vdAcE
8 Posts
P.S this map is beautiful!!! | ||
MildCocoA
Korea (South)127 Posts
On January 03 2012 06:20 vdAcE wrote: when you upload this map on the European server? P.S this map is beautiful!!! Complete in EU Wait SEA | ||
DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
On January 02 2012 22:52 MildCocoA wrote: Uploaded map in NA wait EU & SEA Thank you so much! You are my new hero! Will you be doing the other CruX maps as well!? | ||
Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
The problem i find with a creep tumor is also that it reacts so differently to different races. Protoss: Protoss are already a clear losser in terms of Island expantions because their only option for taking them is through a warp prism. Now they also have to get a Observer to make space and even then they have to wait for the creep to reside. Protoss don't really have other options for removing the tumor as stargate doesn't provide mobile detection. You could drop a cannon on island but then it is just going to take even longer to take the expansion. Zerg: Zerg is slightly better in this regard as they do have 2 options for getting a drone to the island. Nydus and Overlord drops. The latter is probably preferred as it doesn't give it self away instantly. Both of these require lair so the detection is not really an issue. Also once the tumor has been dealt with Zergs can instantly take the expansion as Creep doesn't prevent zerg buildings. Terran: As mentioned Terran already has many advantages regarding islands which is why even blizzard has given up on them. Besides Turrets and Lift off terran also have scan which gives acces to much earlier removal of the tumor, potentially through a Banshee rush. A raven could also do the job. While the creep still has to reside terrans can have their base ready and even make it an orpital before that. Once the creep goes away terrans can instantly land the finished base which overall might be even faster than what Zergs can currently do. Drops are also a much more common tactic for terran and medivacs has multible usages besides taking the expantion. Hence terran still has a clear advantage regarding these islands, with or without tumor. | ||
DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
On January 05 2012 01:16 Sumadin wrote: Gotta admit i am not liking the Neutral creep turmor island expantions. Island expantions by default always favor terran. This is not only because of lift off but also because of turrets which are superior to their counterparts because of possible Upgrades and repairs. When even Blizzard say they can't make islands balanced you really have to consider if it can work. The problem i find with a creep tumor is also that it reacts so differently to different races. Protoss: Protoss are already a clear losser in terms of Island expantions because their only option for taking them is through a warp prism. Now they also have to get a Observer to make space and even then they have to wait for the creep to reside. Protoss don't really have other options for removing the tumor as stargate doesn't provide mobile detection. You could drop a cannon on island but then it is just going to take even longer to take the expansion. Zerg: Zerg is slightly better in this regard as they do have 2 options for getting a drone to the island. Nydus and Overlord drops. The latter is probably preferred as it doesn't give it self away instantly. Both of these require lair so the detection is not really an issue. Also once the tumor has been dealt with Zergs can instantly take the expansion as Creep doesn't prevent zerg buildings. Terran: As mentioned Terran already has many advantages regarding islands which is why even blizzard has given up on them. Besides Turrets and Lift off terran also have scan which gives acces to much earlier removal of the tumor, potentially through a Banshee rush. A raven could also do the job. While the creep still has to reside terrans can have their base ready and even make it an orpital before that. Once the creep goes away terrans can instantly land the finished base which overall might be even faster than what Zergs can currently do. Drops are also a much more common tactic for terran and medivacs has multible usages besides taking the expantion. Hence terran still has a clear advantage regarding these islands, with or without tumor. While what you said is absolutely true IN THEORY, in practise, island expansions are taken most by zerg, second by toss, and LEAST by terran (for some reason). Statistically. | ||
Gfire
United States1699 Posts
On January 05 2012 15:38 DYEAlabaster wrote: Show nested quote + On January 05 2012 01:16 Sumadin wrote: Gotta admit i am not liking the Neutral creep turmor island expantions. Island expantions by default always favor terran. This is not only because of lift off but also because of turrets which are superior to their counterparts because of possible Upgrades and repairs. When even Blizzard say they can't make islands balanced you really have to consider if it can work. The problem i find with a creep tumor is also that it reacts so differently to different races. Protoss: Protoss are already a clear losser in terms of Island expantions because their only option for taking them is through a warp prism. Now they also have to get a Observer to make space and even then they have to wait for the creep to reside. Protoss don't really have other options for removing the tumor as stargate doesn't provide mobile detection. You could drop a cannon on island but then it is just going to take even longer to take the expansion. Zerg: Zerg is slightly better in this regard as they do have 2 options for getting a drone to the island. Nydus and Overlord drops. The latter is probably preferred as it doesn't give it self away instantly. Both of these require lair so the detection is not really an issue. Also once the tumor has been dealt with Zergs can instantly take the expansion as Creep doesn't prevent zerg buildings. Terran: As mentioned Terran already has many advantages regarding islands which is why even blizzard has given up on them. Besides Turrets and Lift off terran also have scan which gives acces to much earlier removal of the tumor, potentially through a Banshee rush. A raven could also do the job. While the creep still has to reside terrans can have their base ready and even make it an orpital before that. Once the creep goes away terrans can instantly land the finished base which overall might be even faster than what Zergs can currently do. Drops are also a much more common tactic for terran and medivacs has multible usages besides taking the expantion. Hence terran still has a clear advantage regarding these islands, with or without tumor. While what you said is absolutely true IN THEORY, in practise, island expansions are taken most by zerg, second by toss, and LEAST by terran (for some reason). Statistically. Source? I think I remember hearing some island statistics, but I don't remember it very well or where it was from. | ||
Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
On January 05 2012 15:38 DYEAlabaster wrote: While what you said is absolutely true IN THEORY, in practise, island expansions are taken most by zerg, second by toss, and LEAST by terran (for some reason). Statistically. Well TBH i would like to know that aswell. It is not exactly something easily meassureable compared to say win-rates. Even if it was true there could be some reassons for that. I could list 2 possibilities. 1) TvX usually have the terran focus on earlier agression which means that the island rarely come into eff. 2) Island maps are most vetoed in Matchups involving terran. Neither of them through disputes the fact that terrans stands incrediable strong when taking and holding the actual island expansion. You also mentioned that Zerg was the one that took islands the most. The rest of this map mirrors Metalopolis to some extend. We know from blizzard that Metalopolis favored Zerg heavy on ladder at some point and the things that allowed Zerg to be strong on metal is even more present here.(Lots of expansions that are easy to cover). There aren't any gold base, which would normally be good however a gold would force the Zerg to take action rather than take 5 bases turtle up while droning. I fear that espicially PvZ might be broken on this map. | ||
Antares777
United States1971 Posts
In summary, the Creep Tumors should be removed. In addition to that, it would be awesome if the islands were within blink range. Then Protoss could do an exclusive blink Stalker gateway build, allowing them to split their army and making games involving Protoss much more interesting. | ||
Ketch
Netherlands7285 Posts
On January 06 2012 05:27 Antares777 wrote: I'm pretty sure Zerg takes islands the most, then Terran, and lastly Protoss. Using a Creep Tumor really harms the ability to take an island expansion as Protoss. I would just leave them unblocked to give them more of a chance, because it won't really make the islands any easier to expand to as Terran or Zerg. Zerg will have detection by the time they can get to the island, and Terran will have detection from the start. Protoss is forced to get an Observer and Warp Prism, which can only build one at a time (unless the player is doing some ridiculous double Robotics Facility build) and cut into Colossus production, making their army weaker. In summary, the Creep Tumors should be removed. In addition to that, it would be awesome if the islands were within blink range. Then Protoss could do an exclusive blink Stalker gateway build, allowing them to split their army and making games involving Protoss much more interesting. Maybe put a object on the island that destroys itself after 5-8 min? Like the watch tower on Xel'Naga Fortress used to do.. I think the creep + tumor is intended to block the island early game, so maybe this mechanic could also be used again. I always have like islands though, just being around as an option on the map. | ||
TearsOfTheSun
Canada995 Posts
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chocopaw
2072 Posts
On January 18 2012 21:27 Ketch wrote: Show nested quote + On January 06 2012 05:27 Antares777 wrote: I'm pretty sure Zerg takes islands the most, then Terran, and lastly Protoss. Using a Creep Tumor really harms the ability to take an island expansion as Protoss. I would just leave them unblocked to give them more of a chance, because it won't really make the islands any easier to expand to as Terran or Zerg. Zerg will have detection by the time they can get to the island, and Terran will have detection from the start. Protoss is forced to get an Observer and Warp Prism, which can only build one at a time (unless the player is doing some ridiculous double Robotics Facility build) and cut into Colossus production, making their army weaker. In summary, the Creep Tumors should be removed. In addition to that, it would be awesome if the islands were within blink range. Then Protoss could do an exclusive blink Stalker gateway build, allowing them to split their army and making games involving Protoss much more interesting. Maybe put a object on the island that destroys itself after 5-8 min? Like the watch tower on Xel'Naga Fortress used to do.. I think the creep + tumor is intended to block the island early game, so maybe this mechanic could also be used again. I always have like islands though, just being around as an option on the map. That's actually a great idea! What do you think about that, LS? No island expansion was taken in GSL games yet, right? Do you have any experience from practice matches etc. regarding the islands? | ||
Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On January 06 2012 05:27 Antares777 wrote: In addition to that, it would be awesome if the islands were within blink range. Then Protoss could do an exclusive blink Stalker gateway build, allowing them to split their army and making games involving Protoss much more interesting. That's one of the key requirements atm to make islands balanced in ZvP. Even tho on this map I'm not sure if it even matter when you have 5 free bases... | ||
AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
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kAelle_sc
287 Posts
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + In the IEM semi finals puma tried to a reaper runaround and couldn't and it wasn't clear for him. When a pro can't tell where a reaper can't go then it isn't lampshaded enough. It should ALWAYS be clear if there is an impasseable ramp for reapers. Something a bit more obvious has to be put there to show that it is a no-go zone. | ||
chuky500
France473 Posts
It's important to paint big doodads out so the pathfinder AI don't stick units for no reason. | ||
IcculusLizard
265 Posts
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Thomassn
Netherlands12 Posts
On December 03 2011 14:26 LSPrime wrote: and zerg can not build hatchery before remove creep tumor Show nested quote + On December 03 2011 14:15 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote: Absolutely gorgeous map, I'm seriously jealous. Not just the aesthetics though - although that part is really sick - the layout looks cool too. The creep tumors look out of place though, visually speaking. I think just for fun you could try a hostile missile turret though However you don't need to wait for the creep to disapear as a zerg. | ||
ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5651 Posts
On March 18 2012 03:30 ArcticRaven wrote: Seriously man.... Look at the picture ^^. red means unbuildable, and it's so because there's the tumor in the way. Two different points, actually. The creep tumor blocks for zerg as well, yes, but a zerg can place an expo immediately after killing it. A terran or protoss will have to wait for the creep to recede. | ||
Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On March 18 2012 03:30 ArcticRaven wrote: Seriously man.... Look at the picture ^^. red means unbuildable, and it's so because there's the tumor in the way. Since Terran and Protoss need detection in order to kill it and wait for the creep to go away, Zerg might as well need detection as well AND have the added benefit of being able to expand immediately, since they have limited early detection. | ||
WeedRa
Germany815 Posts
Would really appreciate it | ||
Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
On March 18 2012 03:42 Praetorial wrote: Show nested quote + On March 18 2012 03:30 ArcticRaven wrote: Seriously man.... Look at the picture ^^. red means unbuildable, and it's so because there's the tumor in the way. Since Terran and Protoss need detection in order to kill it and wait for the creep to go away, Zerg might as well need detection as well AND have the added benefit of being able to expand immediately, since they have limited early detection. They will always have acces to Overseers when they can get a drone to the island. | ||
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